SUPPORT FOR "HEADLINE HUMBOLDT"IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> COMING UP NEXT ON "HEADLINE HUMBOLDT," THE ONLY CAL POLY HUMBOLDT PROFESSOR WHO REMAINS SUSPENDED FOLLOWING APRIL'S PROTESTS AGAINST THE WAR IN GAZA HAS TAKEN TO TEACHING HIS CLASSES IN THE COMMUNITY.

REPORTER RYAN HUTSON WILL BRING US THAT STORY.

ALSO, LONG-TIME LOCAL JOURNALIST JIM HIGHT JOINS US IN STUDIO TO TALK ABOUT HIS NEW BOOK, "MOON OVER HUMBOLDT."

COMING UP NOW ON "HEADLINE HUMBOLDT."

LIVE CC BY ABERDEEN CAPTIONING 800-688-6621 WWW.ABERCAP.COM FROM THE TOP OF HUMBOLDT HILL, THIS IS "HEADLINE HUMBOLDT."

I'M JAMES FAULK.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

ILLNESS OR INJURY CAN OCCUR AT ANY TIME TO ANYONE, A FACT THAT WE ALL UNDERSTAND DEEPLY AS WE GO ABOUT OUR DAY-TO-DAY LIVES.

IT'S A CRAPSHOOT.

TRIPPING OVER A TOY, SLIPPING ON A WET FLOOR, GETTING T-BONED IN AN INTERSECTION BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE RUNS A RED LIGHT, THESE ARE AMONG THE MILLIONS OF POSSIBILITIES WE ALL FACE EVERY SINGLE DAY.

ADD TO THAT ILLNESS, HEREDITARY DISEASE, STRESS-RELATED AGING, ARTHRITIS, ENVIRONMENTAL TOXINS, COVID-19, HEART DISEASE, CANCER, AND EVERY OTHER THING THAT CAN ABUSE AND DEGRADE OUR IMMUNE SYSTEMS.

EACH OF THESE HEALTH CATASTROPHES BRINGS WITH IT A LOSS OF FUNCTION, MISSED WORK, AND A DECREASING QUALITY OF LIFE.

SHOULD IT ALSO BRING BANKRUPTCY?

BOTH THE CALIFORNIA STATE LEGISLATURE AND THE U.S. CONGRESS ARE NOW CONSIDERING NEW RULES TO PREVENT UNPAID MEDICAL BILLS FROM DESTROYING PEOPLE'S CREDIT.

GIVEN THE ASTRONOMICAL COST OF RECEIVING CARE IN THIS COUNTRY, IT'S ABSOLUTELY SHAMEFUL THAT EVEN NOW, SOMEONE WHO SUFFERS ILLNESS OR INJURY WITHOUT THE MEANS OF PAYING FOR TREATMENT LIKELY SUFFERS THE ADDED INDIGNITY AND SOCIAL COST OF A LOW CREDIT SCORE.

I HOPE THE LEGISLATURE MAKES THESE CHANGES, WITH DUE HASTE.

IN THE LONG RUN, I THINK UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE IS THE ONLY SOLUTION TO ALL THE INEQUITIES IN OUR MEDICAL SYSTEM, BUT ABSENT THAT, LET'S AT LEAST STOP ADDING, ALMOST LITERALLY, INSULT TO INJURY.

IN A MOMENT WE WILL BE JOINED BY A LONG-TIME LOCAL JOURNALIST JIM HIGHT, WHO WHILE HAVING MOVED ON FROM THE REGION, HAS JUST WRITTEN A NEW NOVEL BASED IN HUMBOLDT COUNTY.

BUT FIRST, THE NEWS.

IN APRIL, CAL POLY HUMBOLDT ERUPTED IN PROTEST AGAINST THE WAR IN GAZA.

THE PROTESTS LED TO THE OCCUPATION OF SIEMENS HALL, AMONG OTHER BUILDINGS, AND ULTIMATELY TO AN ILL-FATED DECISION TO VIOLENTLY REMOVE THOSE STUDENTS.

FACULTY AS WELL AS STUDENTS WERE ULTIMATELY TARGETED FOR CONSEQUENCES BY THE COLLEGE ADMINISTRATION, LED BY THEN-UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT TOM JACKSON.

ONE PROFESSOR, DR. ROUHALLA AGHASALEH, EVEN KNOW REMAINS SUSPENDED FROM HIS POSITION, EVEN THOUGH THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE HAS FILED NO CHARGES AND PRESIDENT JACKSON HAS LEFT HIS JOB.

RYAN HUTSON HAS THE STORY.

>> AFTER BEING ARRESTED AT CAL POLY HUMBOLDT WITH STUDENT PROTESTERS, DR. ROUHALLA AGHASALEH HAS BEEN SUSPENDED PENDING AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE PROFESSOR'S ROLE DURING THE WEEK OF PROTESTS FOR PALESTINE.

THIS, DESPITE THE DA DROPPING ALL CHARGES AGAINST THE PROFESSOR, WHO WAS NOTIFIED OF THE EXTENDED SUSPENSION JUST BEFORE THE START OF SCHOOL.

WITH THE THINLY VEILED THREAT OF TERMINATION STILL LOOMING, RATHER THAN SIT BY IDLY, THE TEACHER DECIDED TO TEACH IN PUBLIC.

>> THIS FALL UNFORTUNATELY I WAS UNABLE TO BE ON THE SCHEDULE AND TEACH AND SO I'M USING PUBLIC SPACES TO SIT DOWN AND TO DISCUSS WHAT WE READ AND WE LEARNED TODAY.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT ME.

THIS IS ABOUT WELL BEING OF CAMPUS AND COMMUNITY.

EVEN MY COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE ADMIN ABOUT REINSTATING ME AND LIFTING SUSPENSIONS WAS NOT SELF-ADVOCACY.

IT WAS MORE A CONCERN ABOUT THE WELL BEING AND RESTORING THE TRUST THAT WAS DISRUPTED BY THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION >> WHEN YOU SAY THE TRUST WAS DISRUPTED, WHAT OCCURRED THAT LED TO THAT?

>> THEY ENGAGED WITH THE STUDENT'S PEACEFUL PROCESS VIOLENTLY.

THEY DIDN'T LISTEN TO STUDENTS' DEMANDS AND THEY ESCALATED AND THEY RESPONDED TO THAT FORCE WITH VIOLENCE.

THEY DID NOT ENGAGE WITH FACULTY.

THEY DID NOT INCLUDE COMMUNITY INPUT.

AND THEY MADE DECISIONS THAT WERE NOT THE BEST FOR THE COMMUNITY.

>> FOR "HEADLINE HUMBOLDT," THIS IS RYAN HUTSON.

>> JUST RETURNED FROM AN EXHAUSTING TRIP TO CHICAGO, KEET EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR DAVID GORDON SAT DOWN WITH ME THIS WEEK TO TALK ABOUT THE EXPERIENCE OF ATTENDING THIS YEAR'S DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION.

SEEING HISTORY UNFOLD BEFORE HIS EYES, HIS TRIP MAY WELL BODE A NEW WRINKLE IN HOW KEET COVERS NATIONAL EVENTS SUCH AS THESE.

>> OVER THE PAST FEW DAYS, YOU KNOW, THE TELEVISION NETWORKS KEEP RUNNING THE SAME FOOTAGE THAT THEY HAVE OF THE CONVENTION.

AND EVERYBODY GETS THE SAME FEED.

ALL OF THE NETWORKS, THEY ARE BASICALLY RUNNING FROM THE SAME IMAGES.

BUT BEING THERE AND BEING IN THE MIDST OF THAT ENERGY, ESPECIALLY AN EVENT OF THIS SIGNIFICANCE.

BECAUSE THAT'S THE REASON WHY I FELT I WANTED TO BE THERE, WAS TO BRING BACK TO THE FOLKS IN THIS COMMUNITY WHAT IT IS LIKE, FIRST OF ALL, TO BE IN THAT ENVIRONMENT AND NOT JUST WATCHING WHAT'S PREPARED AND PLANNED OUT AND JUST SEE WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO SEE FROM THE FEED THAT EVERYBODY GETS.

BUT TO GET A FEELING OF WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE THEREWITH ALL OF THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE ALL UNITED IN THIS THING THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO GET ACCOMPLISHED.

AND IN THIS CASE, THE NOMINATION OF THE FIRST BLACK WOMAN FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

THAT'S HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT.

AND TO BE PRESENT FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, I FELT, WAS IMPORTANT.

I'M GLAD WE WERE ABLE TO BE ABLE TO BE THERE TO RECORD SOMETHING THAT MAYBE IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU'VE SEEN FROM THE USUAL MEDIA OUTLETS.

WHEN YOU START TO WATCH IT ON TV, WE'RE ALREADY HERE, EVERYBODY IS IN PLACE AND THE PROGRAM HAS STARTED.

IT IS FOLLOWING ITS SCHEDULE AND THIS IS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

THERE'S A LOT THAT GOES INTO GETTING TO THAT POINT, ESPECIALLY FOR WHAT WE WERE DOING.

WE WERE NOT ASSIGNED A SPECIFIC SPOT.

WE WERE ASSIGNED A GENERAL AREA FOR PRESS.

AND THERE WERE A LOT OF OTHER FOLKS IN THE SAME BOAT AS US, WHERE YOU GO UP TO A CERTAIN LEVEL AND SET YOUR STUFF UP AND THEN YOU KIND OF JOCKEY FOR POSITION WITH NOT ONLY THE OTHER JOURNALISTS THAT ARE UP THERE, BUT ALSO WITH THE AUDIENCE MEMBERS.

BECAUSE IT WAS STANDING ROOM ONLY.

AND THAT REALLY MEANT STANDING ROOM ONLY.

YOU WERE THERE BUMPING ELBOWS AND TRYING TO RECORD OVER THE TOPS OF PEOPLE'S HEADS AND OTHER PEOPLE'S PHONES AND THIS KIND OF THING.

IT DOES GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT IT ACTUALLY FEELS LIKE TO BE IN THE CROWD WATCHING THIS.

SO I'M GLAD I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO IT, TO PROVE TO MYSELF AND FOR THE STATION THAT WE CAN DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

WE CAN GET THE CREDENTIALING THAT WE NEED.

WE CAN PASS THE SECURITY TEST THAT WE NEED TO.

WE HAVE THE EQUIPMENT THAT WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

WILL WE DO IT AGAIN?

POSSIBLY.

WOULD IT BE SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THIS OR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT?

I DON'T KNOW.

BUT WE CAN GO OUT AND WE CAN GET ACCESS TO PEOPLE AND PLACES AND BRING A DIFFERENT SIDE OF THE STORY TO THE PEOPLE OF THIS COMMUNITY.

THAT WAS AN IMPORTANT TEST FOR ME.

AND NOW I KNOW, YEAH, IT CAN BE DONE.

SO THAT MAKES ME HAPPY.

>> WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK AFTER THIS SHORT BREAK.

>> I'M DAVID GORDON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF KEET-TV.

I WANT TO TELL YOU ABOUT THE FREE PBS APP.

IT IS NOT THREE FOR 30 DAYS OR A THREE-MONTH TRIAL, IT IS FREE FOR AS LONG AS YOU WOULD LIKE TO USE IT.

WATCH EPISODES OF PBS SHOWS THAT AIRED ON TV AS WELL AS KEET'S BROADCAST, RIGHT IN THE APP, NO ANTENNA REQUIRED.

FRONTLINE, PBS NEWSHOUR AND WASHINGTON WEEK ARE ALWAYS FREE.

YOU CAN GET MORE OUT OF THE PBS APP BY BECOMING A SUSTAINING MEMBER.

$5, $10, $20 A MONTH WILL QUALIFY YOU FOR PBS PASSPORT.

DRAMA, SCIENCE, NATURE, THERE IS SO MUCH TO WATCH WITH PASSPORT.

WHAT REALLY MATTERS IS YOUR DONATION NOW SUPPORTS THE PBS PROGRAMS THAT YOU WATCH.

THANK YOU.

>> JOINING US NOW IN STUDIO IS LONG-TIME LOCAL JOURNALIST JIM HIGHT.

AND A NEW AUTHOR WHO JUST PUBLISHED "MOON OVER HUMBOLDT."

THANKS FOR COMING IN.

I CONSIDER YOU A FRIEND SO THANK FOR COMING IN AND REACHING OUT TO ME.

YOU HAVE BEEN A JOURNALIST A LONG TIME IN HUMBOLDT COUNTY AND HAVE DONE WORK ALL OVER THE COUNTRY IN TERMS OF FREELANCE WORK, SORT OF.

HAS FICTION ALWAYS BEEN A DREAM?

IS THAT A LIFE-LONG AMBITION OR HOW WOULD YOU CONSIDER THAT?

>> GREAT QUESTION.

I WOULD SAY I WAS INTIMIDATED BY WRITING FICTION.

I HAVE BEEN A JOURNALIST SINCE HIGH SCHOOL, MORE OR LESS.

AND I LEARNED HOW TO DO IT, YOU ASSEMBLE YOUR FACTS, YOU DO YOUR RESEARCH AND WRITE FOR THE PUBLICATION AND GET IT IN ON DEADLINE.

WRITING A BOOK IS A WHOLE OTHER UNIVERSE.

>> YEAH.

>> AND IT WAS YEARS BEFORE ANYONE READ WHAT I WROTE.

SO I THINK IT TOOK ME, I HAD TO WORK UP MY COURAGE TO DO IT, BASICALLY.

>> HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO WRITE THE BOOK?

>> ABOUT 10 YEARS.

>> 10 YEARS?

WOW.

THAT IS AMAZING.

>> THE NEXT ONE WILL BE QUICKER.

>> YOU WILL HAVE THE TEMPLATE.

>> YES.

>> 10 YEARS HAS TO BE A PASSION PROJECT.

AFTER GOING THROUGH THAT PROCESS, COMPARE THE TWO PROCESSES.

WHAT CAN YOU DO IN FICTION THAT PEOPLE HAVE A HARD TIME DOING IN NONFICTION AND VICE VERSA?

IS THERE IS A COMPARISON LIKE THAT?

>> IN NONFICTION JOURNALISM, YOU INTERVIEW PEOPLE, RESEARCH AND THAT IS THE STORY.

YOU HAVE A SNAPPY LEAD AND THERE YOU GO.

FICTION IS WIDE OPEN, RIGHT?

I INVENTED THESE CHARACTERS EVERY DAY WHEN I SAT DOWN, I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING HAPPEN.

IT WAS A MYSTERY AND OFTEN VERY FRUSTRATING, BUT OFTEN A GREAT SOURCE OF JOY TO JUST WATCH WHAT HAPPENED.

WHEN I SAY THAT, I WROTE THIS BOOK.

I'M NOT AN IMPOSTER.

ALSO, I DO BELIEVE IN SOMETHING LIKE THE MUSE.

>> YEAH.

ABSOLUTELY.

>> THAT SHOWS UP WHEN I PUT IN THE WORK TO SIT THERE.

NOT EVERY DAY, NOT EVERY HOUR, BUT OFTEN ENOUGH TO GET THIS DONE.

>> YEAH.

I MEAN PEOPLE OFTEN TALK ABOUT THE PROCESS OF FICTION AS A REVEALING RATHER THAN A CREATION.

IT IS ALMOST AS IF THE SPIRIT OF THE PROJECT ALREADY EXISTS AND HELPS YOU TO KIND OF UNCOVER IT.

THAT ALCHEMICAL IS PART OF THE CREATIVE PROCESS FOR SOME, ANYWAY.

>> I LIKE THAT WAY OF LOOKING AT IT.

>> TO GET THE VIEWERS INVOLVED.

CAN YOU GIVE US A BRIEF SYNOPSIS OF WHAT THE STORY IS AND WHAT THE IMPORTANT ELEMENTS PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT?

>> OKAY.

GREAT.

WELL, THERE IS A SYNOPSIS ON THE BACK COVER OF THE BOOK, WHICH I WON'T CHEAT BY READING.

THERE'S TWO MAIN CHARACTERS.

BILL IS A MIDDLE-AGED LOGGER, WHO GREW UP VERY TRADITIONAL AND RAISED HIS SON KENNY VERY TRADITIONALLY TO WORK HARD.

AND KENNY BECAME A METH ADDICT AND BILL'S WORLD IS SHATTERED AND HE HAS TO FIGURE OUT, HAS TO COPE WITH THAT TERRIBLE PAIN OF SEEING HIS SON LOST TO ADDICTION.

JONAH IS A YOUNG ENVIRONMENTALIST WHO SUFFERS FROM ADDICTION HIMSELF TO CANNABIS AND ALCOHOL AND HAS A BACKGROUND, A FAMILY BACKGROUND OF ALCOHOLISM, VERY SEVERE.

AND THEY MEET IN A 12-STEP PROGRAM AND THEY HIT IT OFF AS PEOPLE DO IN THOSE PROGRAMS.

THEY FIND IN EACH OTHER SOMEONE WHO THEY FEEL DRAWN TO, SOMEONE WHO COULD HELP THEM, BUT THEY, OF COURSE, HAVE TO NAVIGATE THIS TREMENDOUS CONFLICT BETWEEN THEM OVER CLEAR CUT LOGGING, BASICALLY.

>> YEAH.

IT'S INTERESTING, PEOPLE KNOW, I'M IN RECOVERY AND I CAN ATTEST TO THE FACT THAT YOUR DEPICTION OF THE ROOMS IS VERY ACCURATE, ESPECIALLY THE SORT OF SUPPORT AND GETTING HUGS FROM STRANGE MEN THAT MAY SEEM UNCOMFORTABLE AT FIRST BUT THEN YOU ARE FALLING INTO THEM BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY FEEL REALLY GOOD.

ALL OF THAT STUFF REALLY RESONATED FOR ME.

AND I THOUGHT I NOTICED A FAMILIARITY ON YOUR PART.

I WILL GO AHEAD AND ASK, ARE YOU IN RECOVERY?

>> YES.

YEAH.

I'M OPEN ABOUT THAT.

I'M A RECOVERING CANNABIS ADDICT AND ALCOHOLIC.

AND, YES, PEOPLE CAN GET ADDICTED TO CANNABIS.

I DID AND OTHER PEOPLE DO.

I'M COMING UP ON 24 YEARS OF BEING CLEAN AND SOBER >> WELL, CONGRATULATIONS.

>> I DON'T CLAIM AFFILIATION WITH ANY PARTICULAR FELLOWSHIP BECAUSE THAT WOULD VIOLATE THE SPIRIT OF ANONYMITY.

I REFER TO MYSELF AS A MEMBER OF 12-STEP PROGRAMS.

I WILL SAY, YOU ASK HOW THIS SHOWS UP IN THE BOOK, ONE ASPECT THAT I'M GETTING A LOT OF POSITIVE FEED BACK ABOUT IN PARTICULAR, THE FAMILY RECOVERY ASPECT.

>> YES.

ABSOLUTELY.

>> BILL GOES TO AL-ANON MEETINGS BECAUSE HIS SON IS AN ADDICT.

I SHOW AL-ANON MEETINGS AND THAT IS NOT AS WELL KNOWN.

I AM GETTING FEEDBACK FROM A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE FAMILY WHO ARE ADDICTS AND IT IS HEARTWARMING IN FICTION, SEEING WHAT THEY HAVE GONE THROUGH PORTRAYED IN THIS NOVEL.

>> I THINK THAT IS A MISSED THING IN THESE PROCESSES WHERE PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO GET THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS INTO RECOVERY BECAUSE THEY ARE SUFFERING FROM CHEMICAL ADDICTION.

THEY ARE LIKE I DON'T HAVE THE PROBLEM, THEY HAVE THE PROBLEM.

A LOT OF TIMES IT IS NOT JUST THE ADDICT SUFFERING FROM THE MALAISE, IT IS EVERYBODY.

AL-ANON IS THE PROCESS WHERE FAMILY MEMBERS CAN GET THE SAME SUPPORT AND LOVE THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE ADDICTED GET IN 12-STEP PROGRAM.

>> THE 12 STEPS ARE VIRTUALLY THE SAME.

>> YOU ARE BETTER ABLE TO EMPATHIZE WITH THE MEMBER OF YOUR FAMILY THAT IS SUFFERING AND HELPS BUILD ALL KINDS OF COHESION.

YOU MENTIONED THE MARIJUANA THING, I WAS GOING TO SAY SOMETHING TO THAT POINT, PEOPLE SAY IT IS NOT CHEMICALLY ADDICTIVE LIKE HEROIN.

IT IS INTERESTING YOU TALK ABOUT MARIJUANA ADDICTION.

BEFORE I GOT ADDICTED TO HEROIN I WAS ADDICTED TO MARIJUANA.

TO THE POINT I WOULD GO THROUGH THE CARPET LOOKING FOR SOMETHING TO SMOKE.

I NEEDED IT.

IT WASN'T TWO WEEKS OF WITHDRAWAL WITH DIARRHEA AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

BUT I WAS PANICKED, I COULDN'T RELAX AND COULDN'T SLEEP.

IT IS A VERY SERIOUS THING LIKE ANYTHING ELSE, PEOPLE NEED TO BE AWARE ESPECIALLY IN A COMMUNITY WHERE MARIJUANA IS HIGH PROFILE.

>> IT IS LESS PHYSICAL.

I DID THE SAME THING, LOOKING IN THE CARPET, LOOKING IN THE DRAWERS.

I KNOW THERE IS SOME WEED SOMEWHERE.

IN THE OLD DAYS BEFORE CANNABIS WAS LEGAL, ARCATA, WHERE I LIVED, WAS A DIFFICULT PLACE TO RECOVER.

YOU COULD SMELL IT ALL THE TIME, PROCURE IT ON THE PLAZA AND THE GROW HOUSES PROLIFERATED.

SO IT IS ALWAYS IN THE AIR, SO TO SPEAK.

>> I'M SURE IT IS STILL HARD THERE.

THERE IS STILL A LOT OF IT THERE, I'M SURE.

ONE OF THE THINGS I ENJOYED ABOUT YOUR BOOK IS ALL THE LOCAL REFERENCES.

THERE ARE PERSONALITIES YOU ENCOUNTER DURING THE COURSE OF THE BOOK THAT ARE PEOPLE THAT I THINK ARE RECOGNIZABLE.

SOME ARE IN HONOR OF, SOME ARE JUST PILLARS OF THE COMMUNITY, SO IT IS A NATURAL FIT.

IS THERE A RISK TO THAT AT ALL, DO YOU FEEL LIKE?

OR DID YOU CHOOSE TO USE THOSE CHARACTERS AS NOT NECESSARILY CENTRAL TO THE CONFLICT, SO MAYBE THE RISK WASN'T AS HIGH?

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT?

>> GOOD QUESTION.

THERE IS A LITTLE TWO-SENTENCE PARAGRAPH IN THE FRONT OF THE BOOK THAT SAYS EVERYTHING IS FICTION.

ANY RESEMBLANCE TO REAL PEOPLE LIVING OR DECEASED IS PURELY COINCIDENTAL.

IT IS NOT QUITE TRUE IN ALL CASES.

I'LL JUST BE UPFRONT, YEAH, I CREATED A CHARACTER BASED ON AARON HOLLENBECK FROM OX, I WITNESSED HIS ABILITY TO INSPIRE AND MENTOR YOUNG PEOPLE.

THAT ASPECT IS IN THE BOOK.

AND I WOULD SAY TO ANY DETRACTORS OUT THERE, I'M SURE THERE AREN'T ANY, HOW CAN I WRITE ABOUT HUMBOLDT COUNTY WITHOUT MENTIONING OX.

HE IS AN AMAZING GUY AND SO IS HIS WIFE, VIVIANA, AND THE PROGRAM THEY HAVE CREATED AND THE WAY THEY LABOR ON YEAR AFTER YEAR TO GIVE THIS COMMUNITY WHAT THEY GIVE.

>> IT IS TOUCHING IN THE BOOK BECAUSE IT IS AT THE DRAFT HORSE MILL WORKS.

ONE OF THE MOST TOUCHING SCENES IS AT THE MILL WORKS.

REACHING KIDS LIKE THAT IS A SPECIALTY OF HE AND HIS WIFE AND IMPORTANT TO CREDIT.

IT GETS AT ONE OF THE MAIN       THEMES OF THE BOOK, ONGOING SOCIAL STRUGGLE BETWEEN ENVIRONMENTALISTS AND LOGGERS.

THAT IS A META NARRATIVE THAT DEFINED HUMBOLDT COUNTY FOR A LONG TIME.

I MOVED HERE IN 1988 SO I WAS HERE IN THE REDWOOD SUMMER AND ONLY A FEW WERE SPIKING TREES.

THERE WERE A LOT OF PROTESTS AND A LOT OF ANGER FROM BOTH SIDES.

TALK ABOUT HOW YOU USED THAT DYNAMIC AS FUEL FOR THE STORY AND HOW THAT HELPED DRIVE YOUR NARRATIVE.

>> GOOD QUESTION.

'88, YOU CAME HERE A LONG TIME AGO.

I CAME IN 96.

I WAS WRITING FOR THE JOURNAL.

THE HEADWATERS GROVE IS FULL ON.

I WENT TO DEMONSTRATIONS AND INTERVIEWED PEOPLE ON ALL SIDES AND I FOUND THAT THERE WAS REALLY A LOT OF INTERESTING BACK STORY TO WHY, WHY THE LOGGERS ARE SO CONCERNED ABOUT BEING ABLE TO CUT DOWN THESE TREES AND WHY THE ENVIRONMENTALISTS ARE SO OPPOSED TO IT.

NOT JUST THE ECOLOGICAL IMPACTS, BUT THE CULTURAL STUFF.

>> YEAH.

ABSOLUTELY.

>> PEOPLE JUST DON'T LIKE CLEARCUTTING.

I DON'T LIKE IT.

I THINK PROBABLY A LOT OF LOGGERS DON'T LIKE TO LOOK AT IT.

>> YEAH.

>> AS THE LOGGER IN THE BOOK SAYS, IT GROWS BACK.

THE TREES GROW BACK AND IT IS ACTUALLY -- THEY THINK, THEY ARGUE THAT IN THIS COASTAL CLIMATE IT IS THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY TO GROW TREES AND PRODUCE LUMBER.

IF THEY STOP DOING THAT, THERE WOULD BE A LOT OF UNINTENDED NEGATIVE IMPACT.

>> YEAH.

>> LIKE IMPORTING MORE LUMBER FROM STATES AND COUNTRIES THAT DON'T HAVE THE SAME FOREST PRACTICE RULES THAT CALIFORNIA HAS.

BUT, AGAIN, I DON'T TAKE A POSITION.

>> YOU ARE NOT TAKING SIDES.

>> I TRY TO GIVE A FULL EXPOSITION OF PEOPLE WITH OPPOSING PERSPECTIVES.

>> THAT IS ALSO WHAT I ENJOYED SO FAR OF WHAT I READ IN YOUR BOOK.

BOTH SIDES ARE WELL INFORMED, BUT THEY ARE LEARNING FROM THE OTHER SIDE AND THESE TWO PEOPLE COME TOGETHER AND IT IS A COLLISION OF WORLD VIEWS.

INITIALLY, BOTH OF THEM RESISTANT TO BEING IN PROXIMITY.

THEY BOTH WALK AWAY FROM THEIR EXCHANGES, WELL, THAT IS INTERESTING.

THEY ARE MORE COMPLEX THAN I THOUGHT.

THEY ARE NOT AS STEREOTYPED AS I WOULD IMAGINE.

THAT IS A LEARNING PROCESS.

THAT SPEAKS TO THE POWER OF THE ROOMS OF RECOVERY.

RIGHT?

YOU HAVE THESE FOLKS ARE FROM EVERY STATION IN HUMBOLDT COUNTY.

>> YEAH.

>> AND EVERYWHERE AND THEY COME TOGETHER FOR A PURPOSE AND THROUGH THAT PURPOSE REALIZE THEIR KIND OF COLLECTIVE HUMANITY AND IT BUILTS BRIDGES.

>> YEAH.

IT DOES.

AND RIGHT NOW I'M SURE THERE ARE PLENTY OF MEETINGS WITH KAMALA   SUPPORTERS AND TRUMP SUPPORTERS AND THEY MAKE IT WORK, FOCUSING ON WHAT IS IMPORTANT, THEIR COLLECTIVE RECOVERY AND MOVING FORWARD TOGETHER AT LEAST IN RECOVERY.

>> THERE WAS A CONVERSATION IN THE BOOK ABOUT THE MOON OVER HUMBOLDT.

IT IS AROUND A DIALOGUE THAT HAPPENS IN 12-STEP ROOMS ABOUT THE NOTION OF A HIGHER POWER.

SOME FOLKS DON'T WANT TO GO TO, YOU KNOW, 12-STEP PROGRAMS BECAUSE WELL I DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD.

THAT WOULD BE ALIEN AND I FEEL LIKE I WOULD BE SACRIFICING SOME PRINCIPLE.

>> MM-HMM.

>> THE WAY YOU HANDLE IT AND KNOWN IN THE ROOMS IS NOT KNOWN GENERALLY IN THE COMMUNITY, BUT HOW WOULD YOU SAY HOW TO THINK ABOUT THAT IN A WAY IF YOU ARE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH GOD.

>> THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION.

BOTH OF THE MAIN CHARACTERS REPRESENT SOME ASPECT OF MY STRUGGLE BECAUSE I CAME INTO 12-STEP WORK AS AN ATHEIST.

OR AT LEAST AN AGNOSTIC AND HERE I'M ASKED TO READ AND BELIEVE PASSENGERS THAT USE THE WORD GOD, A TERM, I WILL TURN MY LIFE OVER TO THE CARE OF GOD?

THAT IS A TOUGH ONE.

IT SAYS GOD AS WE UNDERSTAND HIM, GOD AS WE UNDERSTOOD HIM, OR SOME FELLOWSHIPS CHANGED IT TO GOD AS WE UNDERSTAND GOD.

SO AND THEN YOU WANT TO DO THE 12-STEP PROGRAMS YOU HAVE TO LOOK FOR RESOURCES.

OTHER PEOPLE IN THERE WHO ARE ALSO AGNOSTICS AND THEY ARE THERE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> THERE ARE PARTS OF THE LITERATURE THAT ARE VERY SYMPATHETIC TO PEOPLE THAT AREN'T, YOU KNOW, CHRISTIAN OR JEWISH OR MUSLIM, THAT DON'T BELIEVE IN A SUPREME BEING.

>> YEAH.

>> I MENTION THOSE IN THE BOOK AND I SHOW BOTH THE OLD LOGGER AND THE YOUNG ENVIRONMENTALIST GOING THROUGH SIMILAR STRUGGLES.

THE MOON PLAYS A ROLE IN THAT, BUT I WON'T SAY ANYMORE ABOUT THAT.

NO SPOILERS.

>> YEAH.

IT IS INTERESTING.

I THINK THAT THE IMPORTANT POINT ABOUT THE HIGHER POWER FOR WHAT I'VE EXPERIENCED WITH THE 12-STEP PROGRAMS IS NOT THAT EVEN THAT THERE IS A HIGHER POWER, BUT THAT YOU ARE NOT THE HIGHER POWER.

YOU HAVE TO RELINQUISH WHAT YOU THINK IS YOUR CONTROL.

IT IS THAT SENSE OF CONTROL AND WANTING CONTROL THAT IS OFTEN AT THE HEART OF PEOPLE'S STRUGGLES WITH ADDICTION.

>> MM-HMM.

>> ADDICTION IS THE WAY TO MAINTAIN THE ILLUSION OF CONTROL, BUT ULTIMATELY IT LEADS TO, YOU KNOW, CHAOS.

>> YEAH.

>> BASICALLY.

>> RIGHT.

YOU CAN'T -- I HAD TO ACKNOWLEDGE THIS ADDICTION IS STRONGER THAN ME.

I CANNOT -- I TRIED FOR YEARS TO GET OFF IT WITHOUT 12-STEP.

AND I RELAPSED DOZENS OF TIMES BEFORE I GOT CONSISTENT SOBRIETY.

>> YEAH.

ONE OF THE OTHER ISSUES I REALLY LIKED AND WE TALKED ABOUT IT IN ADDICTS AMONG US, THE DOCUMENTARY WE PRODUCED ABOUT MY EXPERIENCE AND OTHERS WITH HEROIN ADDICTION, IS THE IDEA THAT THERE IS TRAUMA THAT IS INVOLVED AND THAT OFTEN IS OUR FAMILY EXPERIENCES THAT LEAD US EITHER INTO ADDICTION OR, YOU KNOW, INTO THAT REALM.

AND I THINK THAT, AGAIN, LIKE WITH THE AL-ANON QUESTION, IT IS IMPORTANT TO REALIZE THE FAMILY CAN BE THE SOURCE OF HEALING, BUT IT CAN BE THE SOURCE OF THE SYMPTOMOLOGY OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT.

>> MM-HMM.

>> WE ALL NEED TO BE INCLUDED IN THOSE CONVERSATIONS AND THAT HEALING IF WE ARE REALLY GOING MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN PEOPLE'S LIVES.

>> YEAH.

ALL THE CHARACTERS IN 'RECOVERY, IN MY BOOK, HAVE TRAUMA OR ADVERSE CHILDHOOD EXPERIENCES BEHIND THEM.

THEY GREW UP WITH ADDICTED PARENTS AND RELATIVES AND WE ALL CAME BY IT HONESTLY, SO TO SPEAK.

>> YEAH.

>> YEAH.

>> LOCALLY WHERE CAN PEOPLE BUY YOUR BOOK AND IS THERE A NATIONAL RETAILER?

>> YES.

NORTH TOWN BOOKS IN ARCATA AND EUREKA BOOKS IN EUREKA.

IF YOU KNOW OF ANOTHER INDEPENDENT BOOKSTORE ANYWHERE, GO IN AND ASK FOR IT.

I'M A BIG BELIEVER IN SUPPORTING INDEPENDENT BOOKSTORES ESPECIALLY AS I LEARN HOW TIGHT THE PUBLISHING BUSINESS MODEL IS AND YOU CAN GET IT ON AMAZON AND BARNES & NOBLE.

>> OKAY.

ARE YOU GOING BE DOING ANY READINGS NOW YOU ARE IN TOWN?

>> YES.

I'VE GOT TWO TODAY, 4:00 P.M. AT McKINLEYVILLE LIBRARY, 6:00 AT NORTH TOWN BOOKS.

TOMORROW AT EUREKA BOOKINGS, IT WON'T BE A READING, BUT JUST TO TALK INFORMALLY ABOUT THE BOOK.

>> YOU HAVE SINCE RELOCATED TO COLORADO.

WHAT DO YOU MISS MOST ABOUT HUMBOLDT COUNTY?

>> GOSH, THE NATURAL BEAUTY.

WE GOT TO VISIT CROWD PARK, MY WIFE AND I, AND WERE ON THE WATERFRONT.

AND THE PEOPLE, FRANKLY, PEOPLE LIKE YOU.

>> I APPRECIATE THAT, SIR.

THANK YOU, JIM.

THANK YOU FOR COMING IN.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

I LOVED YOUR BOOK.

I WILL FINISH IT, UNFORTUNATELY, AFTER THE INTERVIEW.

THANK YOU.

>> YOU'RE WELCOME.

>> IT IS REALLY WELL DONE.

PEOPLE SHOULD CHECK IT OUT.

THAT IS IT FOR THIS WEEK.

REMEMBER TO CHECK OUT OUR PODCAST NEON GALACTIC ON YOUTUBE AND WHEREVER ELSE YOU GET YOUR PODCASTS.

FOR CONVERSATIONS DEEP AND WIDE, SPANNING EVERYTHING FROM PHILOSOPHY AND SCIENCE TO MYSTICISM AND MAGIC, THIS IS YOUR SOURCE FOR THOSE CONVERSATIONS.

STAY TUNED.

STAY INFORMED.