>> COMING UP NEXT ON "HEADLINE HUMBOLDT", FORMER CR EDUCATOR AND PROFESSOR AT SKIDMORE COLLEGE DOCTOR AMON EMEKA JOINS US TO TALK ABOUT DOING AWAY FROM AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.

AND SOME IN THE COUNT MULL ON LETTING EMPLOYEES WORK FROM HOME.

COMING UP NOW ON "HEADLINE HUMBOLDT".

FROM THE TOP OF HUMBOLDT HILL, THIS IS "HEADLINE HUMBOLDT", I'M JAMES FAULK, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

MORE THAN 25 YEARS AGO I TOOK A CLASS AT COLLEGE OF THE REDWOODS THAT CHANGED MY WORLD VIEW OF RACE AND ETHNICITY.

OUT OF THE CLASSES I TOOK THIS SOCIOLOGY CLASS WAS THE BEST.

DR. AMON EMEKA ADMITS HE WAS AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, HIS HIRES DID GREAT FOR HIMSELF, THE COLLEGE OF THE REDWOOD AND HIS STUDENTS.

I HEARTEDLY AGREE WITH THAT ASSESSMENT.

WE SPOKE VIA ZOOM ABOUT THE DEATH OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION MAY MEAN FOR ALL OF US.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK PEOPLE DON'T REALLY GET OR UNDERSTAND IS THAT FROM THE OUTSIDE, PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE MAJORITY, I GUESS, IS A POLITE WAY TO PUT IT, IS HOW AFFIRMATIVE ACTION HAS HELPED THE MINORITY COMMUNITY.

COULD YOU SORT OF EXPLAIN FOR FOLKS THE ADVANTAGES OF HAVING THAT KIND OF, YOU KNOW, SELECTION CRITERIA IN ADMISSIONS AT UNIVERSITIES.

WHAT THAT BRINGS BOTH FOR THE MINORITY COMMUNITIES AND THEN ALSO FOR THE INSTITUTIONS?

>> YEAH.

I GUESS I WOULD JUST START BY I GUESS BACKING UP ONE STEP FROM THE QUESTION.

>> SURE.

>> IN THAT THE MOST RECENT PRECEDENCE ON AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN CASES IN 2003, REALLY KIND OF FIXATED ON THE NOTION OF A COMPELLING STATE INTEREST TO MAINTAIN OR TO CREATE AND MAINTAIN A DIVERSE STUDENT BODY, WHICH I AGREE WITH ENTIRELY.

BUT I THINK THAT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE, YOU KNOW, THAT WE KIND OF ACKNOWLEDGE THAT IS ESSENTIALLY WHAT COLLEGE ADMISSIONS OFFICES HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DO, CULTIVATE DIVERSITY IN THE INTEREST OF COMMUNITY ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES AND REALLY HAVING THE MOST FULFILLING EXPERIENCE OF SOCIAL, ACADEMIC, AND INTELLECTUAL EXPERIENCES THAT THEY CAN.

AND I THINK -- THAT IS IN JUXTAPOSITION OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION BEING A REMEDIAL SET OF ACTIONS TO MAKE UP FOR PAST WRONG DOING WITH RESPECT TO MINORITIES, RACIAL MINORITIES AND AFRICAN-AMERICANS IN PARTICULAR AND SO ON.

IN SOME WAYS BACK IN 2003 I FELT THAT WAS A BIT OF -- IN THOSE CASES AFFIRMATIVE ACTION WAS UPHELD, AT LEAST IN PART A NOTION YOU COULD CONSIDER RACE WAS UPHELD, BUT IT FELT LIKE SOMEWHAT OF A DEFEAT.

IT SEEMED LIKE IT WAS ONLY UPHELD OR SUPPORTED TO THE EXTENT THAT DIVERSITY WAS HELPFUL FOR EVERYONE, WHICH I AGREE THAT IT IS.

RIGHT?

IT TOOK THE FOCUS AWAY FROM, YOU KNOW, JUSTICE FOR PAST AND PRESENT WRONG DOING WITH RESPECT TO RACE AS OPPOSED TO SOMETHING THAT BENEFITS EVERYONE.

SO AND I GUESS TO YOUR QUESTION ABOUT HOW HAS IT BENEFITED PEOPLE?

AND I SHOULD SAY, I'M A PROUD BENEFICIARY OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.

I'M NOT SURE OF THE NUMBER OF THE QUALITY AND QUANTITY OF THE IMPACT IT HAS HAD ON MY LIFE, BUT I KNOW IT HAS HAD SOME.

I WOULD SAY I'M SPEAKING TO YOU PRECISELY BECAUSE OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION BECAUSE I NEVER WOULD HAVE ENDED UP IN HUMBOLDT COUNTY WERE IT NOT FOR AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, IN FRONT OF THE CLASSROOM WITH YOU BACK IN 1994 OR WHENEVER IT WAS, 1995 WERE IT NOT FOR AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.

I KNOW THAT BECAUSE I RECEIVED SOMETHING CALLED THE AFFIRMATIVE ACTION REGISTER, MAYBE EVERY MONTH OR SO DURING THAT TIME IN MY LIFE.

AND IT WAS A REGISTER OF JOBS, YOU KNOW, KIND OF JOB LISTINGS FROM AROUND THE COUNTRY WHERE PEOPLE WERE PARTICULARLY INTERESTED IN ENHANCING THE DIVERSITY IN THEIR UNIVERSITIES AND CORPORATIONS AND COMPANIES AND COMMUNITIES.

AND SO ON.

OUTSIDE THAT, I'M NOT SURE I WOULD HAVE EVER HEARD ABOUT THE COLLEGE OF THE REDWOODS.

YOU KNOW?

I WAS IN WISCONSIN AT THE TIME.

I WAS IN THE MIDWEST AT THE TIME >> YEAH >> TO THAT REGARD MY PRESENCE THERE, I KNOW IT WAS A BENEFIT TO ME, GIVEN THE PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT THAT I EXPERIENCED THERE AND THE PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS THAT I BUILT WHILE I WAS THERE.

IT WAS A WONDERFUL OPPORTUNITY I MIGHT NOT NEVER HAVE BEEN PRIVY TO IN THE ABSENCE OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.

AND THEN I GUESS, YOU KNOW, I ALSO WANT TO JUST SAY, AND THAT HAS LESS TO DO WITH COLLEGE ADMISSIONS, BUT I THINK THE SAME PRINCIPLES APPLY, THAT WHILE I WAS THERE, MORE THAN ONCE, I WAS SHARING WITH MY DAUGHTER THAT MORE THAN ONCE I HAD STUDENTS BRING THEIR CHILDREN TO MY CLASS AT THE COLLEGE OF THE REDWOODS.

>> YEAH.

>> AND MOST OF THE TIME THEY ASKED ME FIRST.

SOMETIMES IT WAS BECAUSE THERE WERE CHILD CARE ISSUES.

SOMETIMES IT WAS BECAUSE THEY WANTED THEIR CHILD TO SEE A PERSON OF AFRICAN DESCENT, A BLACK PERSON IN FRONT OF A CLASSROOM DOING THEIR THING.

>> YEAH.

>> AND THAT WAS MOVING.

THE FIRST TIME THAT HAPPENED THAT A YOUNG WOMAN ABOUT MY AGE SAID I HAVE THIS SON, HE IS 8 YEARS OLD AND I WOULD LOVE FOR HIM TO SEE YOU IN FRONT OF A COLLEGE CLASSROOM, YOU KNOW?

AND ACTUALLY, THAT YOUNG MAN IS SOMEONE WHO IS STILL IN MY LIFE, YOU KNOW.

SO WHEN YOU ASK, YOU KNOW, HOW IS HAS AFFIRMATIVE ACTION BENEFITED COMMUNITIES, I CAN SEE A LOT OF WAYS IT HAS BENEFITED ME PERSONALLY, BUT PROFESSIONALLY ALSO BUT THEN ALSO BENEFIT THE COMMUNITIES IN THAT WAY.

>> YEAH.

I MEAN, I CAN ATTEST TO THAT.

LIKE I MENTIONED IN OUR LAST INTERVIEW, YOUR CLASS IN A LOT OF WAYS WAS A PARADIGM SHIFT FOR ME AND MADE ME LOOK AT THINGS IN A WAY OUTSIDE OF THE WAY I HAD BEEN TAUGHT UP UNTIL THAT POINT.

I HAD MY FAIR SHARE OF WHAT YOU MIGHT CALL WOKE TEACHERS, BUT SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR PRESENCE WAS MAGNETIC AND IT OPENED MY EYES IN A LOT OF WAYS.

SO AS A STUDENT I THINK I FELT THE BENEFIT OF THAT AS WELL.

IT IS IMPACTFUL.

IT MADE ME REMEMBER YOU 20 YEARS LATER, INVITE YOU ON THE SHOW AND HAVE YOU BACK NOW.

I THINK IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

I WAS MOVED BY YOUR COLUMN THAT YOU HAD IN, WHAT WAS THE NEWSPAPER AGAIN?

>> THE ALBANY TIMES UNION.

THAT IS THE LOCAL PAPER IN THE CAPITAL REGION IN NEW YORK.

>> WE WILL HAVE A LINK IN THE YOUTUBE DESCRIPTION SO PEOPLE CAN CHECK IT OUT FOR THEMSELVES.

>> EXCELLENT.

>> IT WAS INTERESTING BECAUSE YOU PERSONALIZED IN TERMS OF YOUR DAUGHTER.

IF I UNDERSTAND THE RULING CORRECTLY AND I'M NOT SAYING I DO, BECAUSE I'M NOT A LAWYER BY ANY MEANS.

LIKE YOU SAY IN YOUR COLUMN, IT DOESN'T MEAN UNIVERSITIES CAN'T CONSIDER RACE, THEY CAN ONLY DO SO AS A PART OF AN INDIVIDUAL APPLICANT'S STORY AS A HURDLE THEY HAVE OVERCOME OR CONTEXT TO JUDGE THEIR VALUE AS AN INDIVIDUAL CANDIDATE >> YEAH.

>> AND YOU HAD SOME PRETTY POWERFUL THINGS TO SAY ABOUT HOW THAT COULD BE, YOU KNOW, DELETERIOUS FOR THESE STUDENTS AND WHETHER THAT WAS FAIR.

I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD GO OVER THE ARGUMENTS FOR US?

>> YEAH.

YEAH.

I MEAN, THE QUESTION IS IS IT FAIR?

THAT IS ONE CONCERN I HAVE.

ANOTHER IS, IS IT POSSIBLE?

GIVEN THE NATURE OF RACE AND RACIAL EXCLUSION IN OUR SOCIETY, THE CUMULATIVE IMPACT OF, YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE SAY, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT IS KIND OF OUT OF FASHION, PEOPLE USED TO SAY MICROAGGRESSIONS.

WHAT IS THE SUM TOTAL OF MICROAGGRESSIONS?

WHAT IS THE SUM TOTAL OF PEOPLE PERHAPS NOT GETTING THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT AT THIS OR THAT TURN IN YOUR LIFE, YOU KNOW?

AND IT'S HARD, OFTENTIMES, UNLESS, AS I SAID IN MY COMMENTARY, AS I SAY, UNLESS YOU HAVE BEEN PARTY TO A POLICE SHOOTING OR YOU HAVE BEEN PARTY TO A DRIVE-BY SHOOTING.

THAT IS A DRAMATIC ILLUSTRATION OF SOMETHING IMPORTANT ABOUT OUR SOCIETY.

BUT MOST OF US DON'T HAVE THAT, RIGHT?

MOST OF US DON'T HAVE A STORY LIKE THAT TO TELL.

SO A, IS IT FAIR TO ASK FOLKS TO MINE THEIR HISTORIES, MINE THEIR BIOGRAPHIES TO FIND INCIDENCES WHERE THEY WERE WRONGED BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN.

I SHOULD SAY, I THINK FOR MOST HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS IT WOULDN'T BE HARD TO FIND SOME INCIDENCES LIKE THAT IN THEIR OWN BIOGRAPHY.

BUT I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT -- AND I'M SPEAKING FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE -- THERE IS A CERTAIN PSYCHOLOGICAL, I WOULD SAY PSYCHIC ARMOR THAT MANY OF US BUILD UP SO AS TO NOT LET THAT THOSE SOURCE OF INCIDENTS KEEP US DOWN.

I SAY THAT AGAIN VERY PERSONALLY.

WHEN PEOPLE ASK ME ABOUT MY OWN EXPERIENCE, TYPICALLY, I HAVE TO KIND OF DIG AROUND IN MY MEMORIES.

I HAVE A LOT OF STORIES I CAN SHARE.

SOME OF THEM ARE VERY, VERY OLD THOUGH.

AND IF I DO THAT IN THE PRESENCE OF MY WIFE, WHO IS EUROPEAN, WHO IS WHITE, SHE'LL SAY, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

YOU DON'T REMEMBER JUST YESTERDAY WHEN XY AND Z HAPPENED AT THE GROCERY STORE?

YOU KNOW?

AND I'VE GOTTEN TO A PLACE WHERE IF I TOOK NOTE OF ALL THOSE THINGS, I WOULD GO CRAZY.

>> YEAH.

>> IF I TOOK NOTE OF ALL THOSE KIND OF INDIGNITIES AND A LOT OF THE INDIGNITIES I STILL GIVE FOLKS THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT.

A LOT OF INDIGNITIES IT MIGHT BE A MATTER OF INTERPRETATION.

EVEN IF HALF THE TIME I'M RIGHT, IF I LET ALL THAT IN, I WOULD GO NUTS.

IF I HAD 20 -- IF I HAD TO RECOUNT ALL THAT, THAT WOULDN'T BE HAPPY, IN AN ESSAY.

SO THAT IS THE FAIR PART.

IS IT FAIR TO ASK SOMEONE TO DO THAT IN ORDER TO WIN THEIR WAY INTO COLLEGE?

AND IN ONE SENSE, YOU KNOW, I GUESS THE ANSWER IS, YOU KNOW, IF ANYONE HAS HAD -- EXPERIENCED, FOR INSTANCE, THE DEATH OF A PARENT AT A YOUNG AGE, BY ALL MEANS THAT IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF BIOGRAPHY TO DO INTO THE ESSAY TO GIVE THE COMMITTEES THE SENSE OF FORTITUDE OF THE APPLICANT.

THE SAME THING WOULD BE TRUE IF I HAD WITNESSED A FRIEND BEING SHOT BY POLICE OR ABUSED BY POLICE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT GOES IN THERE, BUT, AGAIN, MOST OF US DON'T HAVE THAT.

WHAT WE DO HAVE IS THE CUMULATIVE EFFECT OF DECISIONS, SOMETIMES VERY SMALL AND SOMETIMES SUBTLE THINGS, DECISIONS MADE ON OUR BEHALF THAT STEER US IN ONE DIRECTION OR ANOTHER.

AND THE SUM TOTAL OF THAT IS WHERE WE END UP IN HIGH SCHOOL.

I WAS TALKING TO MY DAUGHTER ABOUT THIS AND SHE DOES, AS I MENTIONED IN THIS COMMENTARY, SHE DOES VERY WELL.

AND SHE HAS A GPA THAT IS WHATEVER IT IS.

AND BUT -- I DIDN'T SHARE THIS WITH HER, I SHARED THIS WITH MY WIFE.

I THINK -- LET'S SAY HER GPA IS 3.8, HER 3.8 IS DIFFERENTLY EARNED.

THERE ARE CLIMATE ISSUES I KNOW, THERE ARE CLIMATE ISSUES IN HER SCHOOL THAT SHE HAS TO GRAPPLE WITH.

AND I ASK IN THIS COMMENTARY, WHAT MIGHT HER GPA LOOK LIKE IF SHE DIDN'T HAVE TO GRAPPLE WITH THOSE THINGS?

A COMMON SENTIMENT, EVERYONE HAS SOMETHING TO GRAPPLE WITH.

YES, EVERYONE DOES HAVE SOMETHING TO GRAPPLE WITH.

BUT ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL, THE ADOLESCENT GRAPPLING WE DO TO THROW ON TOP OF THAT EXCLUSIONS INCLUSIONS BASED ON ONE'S COLOR OF SKIN, RELIGIOUS IDENTITY, THAT IS A WHOLE OTHER LEVEL AND ANOTHER SET OF LEVELS AND ALL BEING EQUAL CAN BE HARMFUL.

>> IT IS INTRINSIC IDENTITY KIDS ARE TRYING TO FIND.

IF SOCIETY IS PUTTING ON THEM THEY ARE LESS WORTHY, IT TAKES A PARTICULAR CHARACTER TO OVERCOME THAT.

JUSTIFIABLY I THINK THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING WORTHWHILE IN COLLEGE ADMISSIONS.

>> YEAH.

>> BUT THERE IS A BIT OF, I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS MESSAGING AT ISSUE, BUT A LARGE PORTION OF THE COUNTRY WHO VIEWS AFFIRMATIVE ACTION AS IF IT IS A STRIKE AGAINST THEM.

>> YEAH.

>> YOU SAW THIS AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS A DRIVING FACTOR, BUT THERE WAS A LOT OF THAT IN 2016 WHEN TRUMP GOT ELECTED, IT WAS LIKE THE SILENT MAJORITY STRIKES BACK FOR PERCEIVED SLIGHTS IT HAD TAKEN OVER THE YEARS OR WHATEVER ELSE.

HOW DO YOU, I MEAN, IF BY SOME CHANCE THERE IS A WAY TO LEGISLATE AROUND THIS OR MAKE IT RACE-BASED CONSIDERATIONS CAN BE MADE IN COLLEGE ADMISSIONS, HOW DO YOU GET BEYOND THE FACT SO MANY PEOPLE FEEL DISEMPOWERED BY THAT?

>> RIGHT.

>> IS IT A MATTER OF COMMUNICATION?

HOW DO YOU BRIDGE THAT GAP SO IT DOESN'T BECOME A LIGHTNING ROD FOR RESENTMENT?

>> YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

I THINK, YOU MENTIONED, I HATE TO BOIL -- KIND OF USE THIS LANGUAGE, THE TRUMP CONTINGENT.

IT IS NOT THE TRUMP CONTINGENT.

THERE HAS BEEN RESISTANCE TO AFFIRMATIVE ACTION LONG BEFORE TRUMP'S ASCENDENCY.

I'M SHOCKED HOW OFTEN AND THE WORD QUOTA -- >> YEAH.

>> CREEPS INTO THE CONVERSATION WITH RESPECT TO AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.

AND QUOTAS WERE DEEMED UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

EVERYBODY HAS AGREED, I THINK, AT LEAST ON THEIR FACE EVERYONE HAS AGREED, OKAY, IT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

THAT WAS DECIDED IN 1978.

>> YEAH.

>> RIGHT?

THAT WAS DECIDED 45 YEARS AGO.

SO WE ARE 45 YEARS HENCE AND THERE IS THIS NOTION THAT AFFIRMATIVE ACTION IS QUOTA SO THAT HARVARD UNIVERSITY WILL ONLY TAKE SO MANY WHITE STUDENTS OR WHAT HAVE YOU.

AND THE NUMBERS ARE SET OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

AND SO THAT IS A HUGE, I THINK THAT IS A HUGE STRIKE AGAINST AFFIRMATIVE ACTION BASED ON A FALLACY, RIGHT?

>> YEAH.

>> SO TO CONSIDER RACE AND COLLEGE ADMISSIONS OR HIRING DECISIONS IS NOT NECESSARILY, IS NOT TANTAMOUNT TO, YOU KNOW, ENFORCING SETTING AND ENFORCING SOME QUOTA.

IN FACT, THAT IS EASILY ILLEGAL TO DO IT IN THAT WAY.

AND SO, YEAH, THERE IS A MESSAGING PROBLEM.

I GUESS THE OTHER THING AND I THINK -- I DON'T KNOW HOW COGNIZANT THE COURT WAS OF THIS, BUT CHAMPIONS OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION HAVE FOR A LONG TIME SAID THIS IS GOOD FOR EVERYBODY, RIGHT?

THAT, INDEED, DIVERSITY IS GOOD FOR EVERYBODY, RIGHT?

AND THAT'S WHY -- AND AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ENHANCES DIVERSITY OR, YOU KNOW, MAKE SURE THERE ARE PROCESSES TO ENSURE SOME AMOUNT OF DIVERSITY.

BUT, YOU KNOW, GETTING PAST THE NOTION AND NOW YOU SAID MESSAGING, NOW THE MESSAGE IS, WELL, YOU CAN HAVE RACIAL DIVERSITY, BUT STILL NOT IDEOLOGICAL DIVERSITY, RIGHT, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

YOU HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO LOOK DIFFERENT BUT ESSENTIALLY THEY ARE ALL FROM SUBURBS, RIGHT?

THEY ARE ALL SWORD OF -- SORT OF MIDDLE OF THE ROAD FOLKS AND SOME HAPPEN TO LOOK DIFFERENTLY.

I THINK THERE IS SOME TRUTH, AS WITH MANY ARGUMENTS, THERE IS SOME TRUTH TO THAT ARGUMENT.

BUT I DON'T KNOW.

I HAVE A HARD TIME, WELL, ACTUALLY, LET ME GET BACK TO YOUR QUESTION.

SO THE QUESTION WAS HOW CAN WE ENSURE THAT OR HOW CAN WE BETTER ENSURE FOLKS THEY WILL NOT BE A VICTIM TO AFFIRMATIVE ACTION?

IS >> MM-HMM.

>> ONE WAY TO ENSURE THEM, I MEAN, IS, A, AFFIRMATIVE ACTION IN COLLEGE ADMISSIONS REALLY ONLY AFFECTS THE COLLEGE ADMISSIONS, I DON'T KNOW IT IS A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF PLACES.

>> YEAH.

>> IT IS MAINLY THAT SELECTED PLACES AND IN FACT MOST PEOPLE WHO GO TO COLLEGES GO TO COLLEGES THAT ARE OPEN ENROLLMENT, MORE OR LESS.

ANYONE WHO WANTS TO GO WILL BE ADMITTED.

THAT IS CERTAINLY TRUE IN PUBLIC HIGHER EDUCATION.

>> YEAH.

>> SO THERE IS THAT.

AND THERE IS ALSO THE NOTION THAT I THINK THE BEST METAPHOR I HAVE EVER HEARD IS THE HANDICAP SPOT AT THE MALL.

I'M NOT SURE YOU HAVE HEARD THAT BEFORE.

>> NO, I HAVEN'T.

>> YEAH.

SO THE HANDICAP SPOT AT THE MALL, I THINK SOME FOLKS, IF YOU ARE FEELING PARTICULARLY GRUMPY, YOU MIGHT RESENT THE FACT THAT THERE ARE TWO SPOTS RIGHT BY THE DOOR AND YOU MIGHT FEEL LIKE THAT IS UNFAIR, ESPECIALLY IF YOU SEE SOMEBODY HOP OUT OF THEIR CAR WALKS JUST FINE INTO THE MALL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, THERE'S 200 SPOTS IN THAT PARKING LOT AND THERE ARE TWO RESERVED FOR, YOU KNOW, HANDICAPPED INDIVIDUALS.

AND IF WE OPEN THOSE TWO UP, TWO PEOPLE WILL BE A LITTLE HAPPIER, BUT ONLY TWO.

IT IS NOT GOING CHANGE THE GAME FOR EVERYBODY.

>> YEAH.

>> I WOULD SAY THAT THAT'S SIMILAR IN COLLEGE ADMISSIONS, RIGHT?

THAT, INDEED, WHAT ARE THE ODDS THAT A, YOU KNOW, A WHITE IDENTIFYING BOY OR GIRL FROM SUBURBAN BOSTON GETS INTO HARVARD UNIVERSITY?

I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS.

IT IS 5%.

IF YOU DO AWAY WITH AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ENTIRELY, RIGHT, IF YOU DO AWAY WITH AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ENTIRELY, IT MIGHT BUMP UP TO 5.3% FROM 5%.

>> YEAH, YEAH.

>> SO IT IS SORT OF A NUMBERS GAME, TOO.

FOR ME IT BOILS DOWN TO A MORAL QUESTION.

>> YEAH.

>> AND THE MORAL QUESTION IS, IF YOU KNOW -- AND I THINK AS MANY OF US DO, ALTHOUGH I HAVE A COLLEAGUE WHO INSISTS THAT MANY FOLKS ARE MILITANTLY IGNORANT ON THIS POINT AND INTENTIONALLY IGNORANT ON THIS POINT -- IF YOU KNOW THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR, VARIOUS RACIAL IDENTITIES ARE AT A DISADVANTAGE AND YOU SAY I DON'T BELIEVE IN AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, WELL THEN WHAT?

RIGHT?

THEN WHAT?

RIGHT?

IF YOU KNOW THAT IS TRUE.

IF YOU CAN LOOK AT ALL THE CEO, THE THINGS WE ALWAYS POINT TO, RIGHT?

THE WEALTH GAP.

THE INCARCERATION GAP.

ALL THE CEOs, RIGHT, THE RACIAL IDENTITIES OF ALL THE CEOs.

WE KNOW ALL THAT IS TRUE AND I THINK MOST OF US THINK THAT SOMETHING OUGHT TO BE DONE ABOUT THAT AND IF THE ANSWER IS NOT AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, THEN WHAT IS IT?

>> YEAH.

>> I'M HAPPY TO LISTEN.

>> YEAH.

>> I'M HAPPY TO LISTEN TO WHAT ELSE COULD BE DONE.

AND THERE ARE SOME OTHER ALTERNATIVES AS TO WHAT COULD BE DONE, BUT LIKE I SAY, IT IS LARGELY A MORAL QUESTION I TEND TO COME DOWN ON A DIFFERENT SIDE THAN THE FOLKS THAT YOU REFERRED TO EARLIER.

>> IT IS INTERESTING THE ARGUMENT THEY ARE USING TO DISMANTLE AFFIRMATIVE ACTION COULD BE USED IN MUCH THE SAME WAY TO DISMANTLE THE ADMISSIONS.

YOU ARE OPERATING, ONE AT LEAST HAS MORAL JUSTIFICATION AND THE OTHER IS LIKE, WELL, SORT OF HINTS AT DARKER MOTIVES ABOUT RACIAL FAMILY LINES AND WHAT NOT.

>> YEAH.

>> IS THERE ANYTHING YOU THINK I DIDN'T ASK ABOUT YOU WOULD LIKE TO GET PEOPLE TO THINK ABOUT IN TERMS OF THIS?

>> NOTHING IN PARTICULAR.

I GUESS ONE OF THE THINGS I HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT I'LL JUST SHARE WITH YOU IS WHAT IF WE ASKED WHITE STUDENTS TO WRITE ESSAYS TO CONVINCE US THEY WERE NOT BENEFICIARIES OF WHITE PRIVILEGE?

DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

IF THE ONUS WAS ON WHITE HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS TO DO THAT.

I DON'T THINK THEY COULD.

MOST OF THEM HAVE NOT WRAPPED THEIR HEADS AROUND WHITE PRIVILEGE.

SO KIND OF BACK TO THIS NOTION OF KIND OF PUTTING THE RESPONSIBILITY OF QUANTIFYING OR KIND OF MAKING RECORD OF THE IMPACTS OF RACIAL INJURIES IN THE LIVES OF STUDENTS, PLACING IT ON THE STUDENTS OF COLOR, GO BACK TO THE FAIRNESS QUESTION SEEMS UNFAIR.

IT SEEMS ESPECIALLY UNFAIR WHEN I ASK THIS QUESTION OF MYSELF.

COULD A WHITE -- ACTUALLY, COULD A WHITE HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT, EVEN IF YOU WERE CONVINCED, JAMES WAS CONVINCED I KNOW WHITE PRIVILEGE IS A REAL THING.

IF I ASKED YOU TO WRITE AN ESSAY TO SAY HOW IT BENEFITED YOU SPECIFICALLY IN YOUR LIFE, COULD YOU DO IT?

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU COULD.

IT IS THE SUM OF EXPERIENCES, SOME VERY SUBTLE THINGS.

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU, YOU KNOW, DRIVEN PAST A POLICE OFFICER WITH A HEADLIGHT OUT AND THEY DIDN'T STOP YOU.

>> YEAH.

>> YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

>> YOU CAN'T QUANTIFY THAT STUFF.

>> ANYWAY, THAT IS A THOUGHT KICKING AROUND.

>> WELL, I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME >> ABSOLUTELY.

>> I WILL PROBABLY CALL YOU AGAI SOME COUNTY DEPARTMENT HEADS OPP GUARANTEEING A WORK-FROM-HOME OPTION FOR SELECT EMPLOYEES.

>> SOME COUNTY EMPLOYEES ALREADY TELEWORK.

THIS WEEK SUPERVISOR MICHELLE BUSHNEL ASSERTED CHANGING TO A PRIVILEGE NOT A RIGHT.

>> YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET SOMEONE TO APPLY FOR A JOB IF A DEPARTMENT HEAD SAYS I CAN YANK THAT BACK ANY TIME.

THERE IS NO POLICY THAT ENSURES THEY WON'T BE LIVING TWO HOURS AWAY AND THE DEPARTMENT HEAD SAYS, NO, YOU CAN'T TELEWORK.

RURAL AREAS, MY DISTRICT SOUTHERN HUMBOLDT, HAVE AN ECONOMIC DOWNTURN.

WE HAVE A 21% VACANCY RATE ACROSS THE BOARD.

WE ARE MISSING OPPORTUNITIES WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY EMPLOYABLE BUT LIVE AN HOUR TO TWO HOURS AWAY FROM THE ORGANIZATION.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS WE EXPERIENCE IS LACK OF CONTROL.

THEY ARE GIVING WRONG INFORMATION AND THEN WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SOMEBODY COMING BACK IN AND SAYING, YOU TOLD ME I CAN DO THIS AND THEY CAN'T.

SOME PEOPLE CAN EFFECTIVELY WORK REMOTELY, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

BUT THEY ARE NOT AVAILABLE WITH A WALK DOWN THE HALL TO TALK TO SOMEBODY WHO HAS A QUESTION FROM SOMEBODY AT THE COUNTER.

SO WE ARE GOING TELL SOMEBODY AT THE COUNTER EXPECTING AN ANSWER, WE CAN'T GIVE THEM AN ANSWER.

WE HAVE TO GET IN CONTACT WITH SOMEONE OFFSITE.

>> THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS VOTED TO EXPAND TELEWORK OPTIONS BUT DID NOT REQUIRE DEPARTMENT HEADS TO PERMIT WORK FROM HOME.

AS PART OF A GRANT WITH ICONIC AMERICA, WE ARE HIGHLIGHTS THE REDWOODS.

THIS WEEK WE GET A TOUR OF REDWOOD NATIONAL AND STATE PARKS.

>> WELCOME TO REDWOOD NATIONAL >> AND STATE PARKS.

PART OF THE REASON THESE TREES ARE SPECIAL THEY SHOW US WHAT WE WANT IN SOCIETY.

I THEIR ROOT CONNECT, THEY HELP HOLD EACH OTHER UP.

THEY LIVE THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

THEY HAVE BEEN AROUND LONGER THAN THAT.

THEY TEACH US ABOUT THE PAST.

THEY STORE A LOT OF WISDOM AND WE CAN LEARN A LOT OF THINGS FROM THESE TREES.

>> ONE OF THE EXPRESSIONS WE USE AT THE PARK SERVICE, PEOPLE LOVE SOMETHING TO DEATH.

THE TREES, THE PARKS SOME PEA SEE THE BIG TREES AND TRAMPLE THE ROOT SYSTEMS AND KILL THE TREE THEY ARE GOING SEE.

OFTEN NOW WE BUILD ELEVATED WALKWAYS SO PEOPLE CAN SAFELY GO SEE THEM, GET UP AND CLOSE WITH THE PERSONAL, BUT IN A WAY THAT ALLOWS THE TREE TO CONTINUE TO THRIVE.

>> WHEN A TREE FALLS DOWN, IT OPENS UP SPACE IN THE CANOPY, ALL OF THAT LIGHT SHADED CAN MAKE ITS WAY TO THE FOREST FLOOR HERE.

IF YOU LOOK UP ON THE TOP OF THIS ROOT BALL HERE, WE HAVE ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT PLANTS GROWING UP THERE.

IT IS A REALLY GOOD SPOT FOR THESE BABY PLANTS TO START THEIR LIVES.

WE CALL IT A NURSERY LOG.

>> THE FOREST YOU SEE BEHIND ME AND OTHER OLD GROWTH REDWOOD HAVE THE HIGHEST DENSITY OF CARBON CAPTURE IN THE WORLD.

AS WE RESTORE FORESTS TO CONDITIONS LIKE THIS, THEY.

>> COMBATING CLIMATE CHANGE AND MAKING A DIFFERENCE FOR EVERYONE BEYOND THE AESTHETIC BEAUTY OR BUCKET LIST DESTINATIONS, THEY ARE LITERALLY CHANGING THE PLANET FOR THE HEALTH OF EVERYTHING.

>> CATCH THE NEXT EPISODE OF ICON AMERICA WITH DAVID RUBEN STEIN TUESDAY JULY 18th.

CENTRO DEL PUEBLO, REPEATED VANDALIZATION OF SANCTUARY GARDEN IN ARCATA IS CALLING ON ALL OF HUMBOLDT COUNTY TO ENACT THE INITIATIVE KNOWN AS MEASURE K DECLARED HUMBOLDT COUNTY A SAFE HAVEN FOR IMMIGRANTS.

CENTRO DEL PUEBLO IS ASKING MORE BE DONE TOWARD IMPLEMENTATION.

ENFORCEMENT OF A SANCTUARY LAW IS A WAY TO END HATE CRIMES IN HUMBOLDT.

THIS IS A CALL TO THE ENTIRE COUNTY OF HUMBOLDT TO ACHIEVE OUR HUMAN RIGHTS AS IMMIGRANTS.

AS ALWAYS, IT HAS BEEN A PLEASURE, STAY TUNED.

STAY INFORMED.