>> Cathy: FOR MORE THAN THREE YEARS NOW MICHAEL OSTERHOLM HAS BEEN MAKING MONTHLY VISITS TO "ALMANAC."

NOW, WE'VE TALKED TO HIM ABOUT LOCKDOWNS, MASKING, BOOSTERS, PUBLIC HEALTH INFRASTRUCTURE, COVID.

TONIGHT WE REACH A MILESTONE IN OUR COVERAGE.

FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE MARCH OF 2020, MICHAEL OSTERHOLM IS JOINING US IN STUDIO INSTEAD OF BY WEBCAM.

NOW, THERE'S A STORY BEHIND THAT, WE'RE GOING TO GET TO THAT IN A SECOND.

DR. OSTERHOLM HAS THE U OF M'S CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE AND RESEARCH POLICY.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

HOW ARE YOU FEELING?

YOU'RE HERE FOR A EASON.

>> YEAH, WELL, I UNFORTUNATELY WAS A VICTIM OF THE VIRUS.

ON MARCH 10TH I THINK I WAS EXPOSED IN ABOUT A 30-SECOND ELEVATOR RIDE WHERE I DID NOT HAVE MY N95 ON, WITH TWO OTHER PEOPLE, ALL THREE OF US GOT INFECTED.

IT WAS A REMARKABLE SITUATION IN TERMS OF GETTING TO SEE FIRSTHAND WHAT IT'S LIKE.

>> Cathy: ERIC OFFAIR SAID DO YOU THINK YOU CAN GET COVID TWICE?

>> OH, YES, YOU CAN.

AND ACTUALLY FOR ME I HAVE A SENSE OF SURVIVOR GUILT BECAUSE I HAVE TWO TO THREE MONTHS NOW WHERE I HAVE GOOD PROTECTION HAVING HAD IT.

EVEN THAT WEARS OFF OVER TIME SO I'LL BE LOOKING FOR MY NEXT BOOSTER DOSE IN A FEW MONTHS.

I HEARD HAVE FROM A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO SAID YOU'RE KIND OF TALKING ABOUT BOTH SIDES OF YOUR MOUTH HERE, THESE VACCINES ARE VERY IMPORTANT BUT THEN YOU GOT IT.

IT IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE I DID NOT END UP IN N ICU BED OR DEATH AND PART OF LOVID.

BECAUSE OF MY AGE I COULD HAVE BEEN ONE OF THOSE.

>> THERE IS A NEW ROUND OF BOOSTERS?

>> THERE IS, I EXPECT IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS THE FDA WILL MAKE THAT POSSIBLE.

WE HAVE MORE AND MORE DATA THAT SAYS THAT ROUTINE BOOSTS LIKE THAT DOES REALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE, NOT ONLY DO YOU GET INFECTED IN THOSE FIRST WEEKS BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY DO YOU AVOID SERIOUS ILLNESS, HOSPITALIZATIONS AND EATHS AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR.

>> Cathy: YOU'RE NOT A FAN, THOUGH OF ANNUAL OOSTERS IN THE FALL, RIGHT?

>> I AM NOT ONLY BECAUSE OF THE FACT WE DON'T SEE THIS AS A SEASONAL DISEASE YET.

RIGHT NOW WE'RE IN A QUANDARY AROUND THE WORLD, WE'RE SEEING A MAJOR INCREASE IN CASES IN INDIA, IN THE EASTERN MED TRAIN REGION, SUMMERTIME.

IT'S NOT WINTER.

WE HAVE NOT SEEN THIS SETTLE INTO A PATTERN.

AND YOU DO SEASONAL VACCINES SO THEY'RE TIMED SO PROTECTION IS MAXIMIZED OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL MONTHS WHEN YOU WOULD EXPECT TO SEE THE VIRUS WHICH FLU DOES DO.

I DON'T THINK IT'S POSSIBLE TO CALL IT THAT YET.

>> Eric: ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE INTERNATIONAL PANDEMIC ACCORD?

>> YES, I AM.

>> I READ CONFLICTING REPORTS THIS WEEK THAT WEALTHY AND LOW INCOME ARE -- >> IT IS A SITUATION WHERE IN PART IT'S NOT JUST ACCESS TO BUT IT'S WHO WILL USE THEM OR NOT.

WE HAVE A CHALLENGE ON OUR HANDS RIGHT NOW OF DISINFORMATION, MISINFORMATION THAT THERE ARE AT LEAST SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY THAT DIED WITH COVID THAT COULD HAVE BEEN SAVED HAD THEY BEEN VACCINATED BUT THEY DIDN'T GET VACCINATED BECAUSE OF THE MISINFORMATION.

AND WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF THAT IN LOW INCOME COUNTRIES TOO.

SO ONE OF THE CHALLENGES WE HAVE IS HOW DO WE APPROACH NOT ONLY GETTING HEM VACCINES BUT SUPPORTING VACCINE PROGRAMS.

SO THAT IS PART OF THE DISCUSSION GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

>> Cathy: YOU MENTION OF COURSE YOU'VE GOT PRETTY DECENT IMMUNITY RIGHT NOW BUT YOU MIGHT GO BACK TO WEARING YOUR N95 SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE.

WHICH LEADS TO ME TO THIS QUESTION.

ALLINA, OTHER BIG FACILITIES ARE DROPPING MASK REQUIREMENTS.

EVERYONE WANTS TO GET BACK TO SOME LEVEL OF NORMALCY, BUT THESE ARE HEALTH CARE INSTITUTIONS.

WHAT'S THE MESSAGE THERE >> WELL, FIRST OF ALL IN KIND OF SHALL I SAY A DIFFICULT MOMENT TO SAY THIS BUT THOSE MASKS REALLY DIDN'T MAKE MUCH DIFFERENCE ANYWAY.

THIS HAS BEEN A REAL CHALLENGE FOR ME THROUGHOUT THE COURSE OF THE PANDEMIC.

THIS VIRUS IS TRANSMITTED AS AN AEROSOL, FINE PARTICLES, LIKE SMOKING, IF SOMEONE WERE SMOKING IN THE STUDIO, WE COULD BE 30 FEET AWAY AND SMELL IT, THAT'S AN AEROSOL.

SO YOU AVE TO HAVE A VERY TIGHT FITTING TYPE OF MASK THAT FILTERS OUT THE VIRUS WHICH IS WHAT AN N95 IS.

HOSPITALS ONLY REQUIRED A PROCEDURE MASK.

AND SO THERE WAS WIDE OPEN SIDES, IT WAS NOT A TYPE OF MATERIAL THAT WOULD STOP THE VIRUS FROM COMING THROUGH, AND SO I HAVE ALWAYS CHALLENGED THESE HOSPITAL HEALTH CARE MANDATES SAYING IF YOU'RE GOING TO MANDATE N95S YOU'RE GOING TO SAVE A LOT OF LIVES SO I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO LEAVE HERE SAYING I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD MASK.

WHAT YOU CAN'T DO THOUGH IS USE INADEQUATE ONES.

IT'S AN INTERESTING SCENARIO BECAUSE YOU THINK OF SURGEONS WITH THEIR MASKS ON, THE ONLY STUDIES WE HAVE SHOW THAT WHEN THEY WERE USING THOSE, THEY WERE USING THEM SO THEY DIDN'T DRIP INTO THE WOUND OR SURGICAL THING.

AND WE HAVE THREE STUDIES THAT SHOW IT DIDN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE.

SO TO ME I THINK THAT THE MESSAGE WE HAVE TO GET OUT AND PUBLIC HEALTH FAILED MISERABLY AT THAT, PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE BEEN WEARING N95 RESPIRATORS, TIGHT FITTING AND THE MATERIAL IS A TYPE OF ELECTRO STATIC CHARGE MATERIAL SO THE AIR CAN GET THROUGH RELATIVELY EASY BUT THE VIRUS GETS TRAPPED.

>> Eric: JUST A MINUTE LEFT, AS YOU BECAME A PATIENT DO YOU HAVE A FIRST PERSON CRITIQUE OF THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM AS IT RELATES TO THIS PROBLEM?

>> WELL, I WAS VERY FORTUNATE IN THAT -- >> Eric: OU HAVE SOME CONNECTIONS.

>> I HAVE SOME CONNECTIONS AND MORE SPECIFICALLY ONE OF THE CONNECTIONS HAPPENED TO BE A FORMER STUDENT OF MINE.

I HAVE TO TELL YOU THE STORY.

WHEN I HAD MY INITIAL ILLNESS I HAD PART OF LOVID ON BOARD BECAUSE I LED A DELEGATION TO CUBA LAST YEAR AND I HAD PAX LOVE AND I DIDN'T USE.

I SENT AN E-MAIL TO THIS CLINICIAN FRIEND OF MINE AND ABOUT 45 INUTES LATER I GET AN E-MAIL BACK AND SAID YOU MIGHT WANT TO CHECK TO SEE IF THIS WENT THROUGH, I'M IN THE HIGH ANDES RIGHT NOW, I JUST PICKED UP SIGNAL TO GET YOUR E-MAIL.