(bright upbeat music) - [Narrator] Illinois stories is brought to you by the corporation for public broadcasting, Illinois Arts Council Agency.

And by the support of viewers like you.

Thank you.

Hello, welcome to Illinois stories.

I'm Mark McDonald in Quincy, I've current in hold in Heinie Specialties.

Heinie Specialties might not mean anything to you, but if you're in the gun business, anywhere in the world, Heinie Specialties mean the sights that are used for exact measurement to your shooting target.

Mr. Heinie started here about 21 years ago, actually started in Havana, Illinois, but he's been here for 21 years and these are the machines, and this is the process that Richard uses to make these sights that are known throughout the world.

Now, Richard, I'm not a gun guy, so I'm going to rely on you to tell me and my audience here today.

What's, what's important about gunsights, how they're designed and manufactured and those kinds of things.

And you're the guy because for 21 years, you've been in this shop making them.

- Yup - And like I said, for, for companies all around the world.

Yeah.

Congratulations.

- Thank you.

- You, you found your, you were a designer for a, a farm equipment company I guess, one day they decided they didn't need you or they closed their doors or something.

You said, well, how can I make a living?

And you said, well, I make pretty good guns.

I think I'll do that.

Is that pretty accurate?

- That's, just about right.

(laughing) - You went from making guns the, the whole hand gun to specializing in the sights.

Why did you, why did you choose that?

- The gun or the sights?

- The sights.

- The sights because the ones that we're using were breaking.

So I came up with my own that wouldn't break.

- Mm Hmm - Can you show me your gun, the gun that you designed and made?

Okay, this is what you.

(gun cocking) This is what you were doing before.

- [Mark] And you were doing it kind of as a hobby, I guess.

- [Richard] Yeah - I was doing this.

I started it in the 70's, uh, shooting I started it in the 70's, uh, shooting - [Mark] Mm hmm - [Richard] and the sights would break.

So everybody was figuring out, they'd have to change put new ones on them and everything.

So I came up with a new one to put on my own that didn't break because I figured with the, the job that I had before with the, the job that I had before I knew how to do this kind of stuff.

- [Mark] Mm hmm.

So that's why I knew it would not break.

- I guess, if you could make an entire hand gun like this and let's hold that up, just so the audience can see it.

You, you hold it.

I, I'm not in trust myself with, but if you can make something like this, - [Mark] putting sights together isn't a big deal.

I mean that, there's a lot of work that goes into - [Richard] Right.

- [Mark] Two of them or gun like that, isn't it?

- [Richard] Right.

- [Mark] So, show us how this one works should.

- [Richard] Well, this is, uh, it's a 1911.

It's pretty been used since, uh, US government It's pretty been used since, uh, US government for years and years and years and years and years.

And it's now being used a whole lot more.

It's used a lot in competition now, um, - [Mark] Mm hmm.

along with Glock, that's another one that's used a lot but, uh, this is how I really started in the 1911 business.

And I got to the point where the guns that I was doing people wanted them, so many of them because I had a back log of about 7 to 8 years, 7 to 8 years.

of about 7 to 8 years, 7 to 8 years.

- Really?

- So I couldn't, there's no way I could keep up with it.

- [Richard] I finally decided nine years ago that I can't do it forever.

So I decided to quit and somebody else is now doing it.

Another company that does similar to what I did then.

- [Mark] Making, making your gun design.

- Right.

- And then you went off to design and build the sights.

- Yes, Sir.

- Okay.

- Yeah.

So I was doing sights also, and the sights just kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger into what I decided that, that's all I want to do now.

- Mm hmm.

Mm hmm - Put that down if you would and pick up a Glock for me.

- Okay.

- [Mark] Okay.

Now let's, let's show very carefully came with the sights because this is what your specialty is.

Right?

- [Richard] Right.

These are the ones that we put on the Glocks right here.

And I sell this to thousands of these, you know And I sell this to thousands of these, you know across the country and even across the, the world, really.

- [Mark] And when we look at where the camera's looking right down the sight, this is the rear sight, and this is the front sight.

And you would install both of these.

Am I right?

- [Richard] Right, we do.

- [Mark] Okay.

So you design it, make it, - [Richard] Right.

- [Mark] And install it as well.

Now, the Quincy police department for instance.

- Right.

- It is one of your clients.

They liked the Glock gun.

Right?

- Right.

- They don't like the Glock sites.

- Right.

- Why is that?

- Because of plastic, I'll show you what they look like.

- [Richard] This is what we took off a one just last week and one there's no night sights.

And secondly, they're plastic and it doesn't take long.

If you drop it or hit against something, they looked like junk right away.

- [Mark] Got guns, get pretty rough used.

- [Richard] Right.

They do.

- [Mark] Yeah.

And so these fall off and rather than have these fall off, they say, well, let's not even use those from the beginning.

Let's use Heinie Sights instead.

- That's right.

- Right?

- That's right.

- Okay.

So show me the, the, the Glock the same Glock with your, with your sight on it again.

Okay.

- There it is right there.

- And what makes this, what makes of course yours - [Mark] is made out of steel.

- [Richard] These are steel.

And not only that these are steel and they have a, um, Melonite so that they're a rust-free, rust-free.

- [Mark] Mm Hmm.

- [Mark] This'll last as long.

It should last as long as the gun then, - [Richard] Oh, yeah.

- [Mark] you shouldn't have to replace these.

And you have these little.

I, I like your explanation of why you have the dots.

If you can hold that real still for us, we can get the dots.

What are the, the white or silver looking dots?

- [Richard] Well, those are night sights.

They're Tritium that, uh, in low light like a dark or last, they'll show up.

And that most police officers want that anyway.

- Sure.

- But one of the things that mine are different than anybody else's.

I have two, one in the front, one in the rear.

- Mm hmm Um, there's still a lot of them that people make that have three dots.

And I learned years ago with the three dots.

You're the rear dot, dots overpowered your eyes.

You're the rear dot, dots overpowered your eyes.

- Mm hmm.

So, mine has the one in the front, one small one in the rear, because when you shoot what you want to really see is the front side.

- Mm hmm.

- You're not looking for the rear.

The front is what you want to see if you want to hit anything.

So, the ones I have have the little one in the rear that's just under the notch and your eyes will pick up those one above the other really quick much faster than having three dots.

- Mm hmm.

And, and, and what's the material that lights it up at night for you.

- It's Tritium.

- Tritium.

- It's actually a nuclear gas is what it is.

- Which, opens up a whole another bag of worms for you because it's, since it's radioactive, it has to be approved by the state department.

- Right.

Yes.

- Before you can use it.

- To send them out of the country, you have to do that.

And there have to be very few people in the United, US that can do it because of the nuclear apartment.

- Mm hmm.

- But you're allowed to do that.

- No.

- You're not.

- I only do it.

I have to have those installed into the sights, once they're installed and I'm okay with it.

- Okay.

All right.

- But the Tritium itself has to be another company doing it.

- What a mess - Oh, yeah - that makes them more expensive.

Doesn't it?

- Yeah, yeah.

- Of course it does.

- Okay.

So the Quincy police department us has ordered these and you've got about half of those done for them.

- Right.

- [Mark] You've got another half to do.

- [Richard] Right.

- [Mark] That's a good contract, isn't it?

- Right, it is.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

And you've got, you've got contracts with some other, with some rather large gun manufacturers as well.

- We do have.

- Can you show me some of their products here?

- Here's one that's, um, company called STI - Here's one that's, um, company called STI from, um, there in Texas.

- [Mark] Mm hmm.

- [Richard] And a lot of their, not every one of their pistols has my sights on them, but about 80% of them do.

- [Mark] Mm hmm.

So when they buy the sights, we make them heaven made and send to them and then they install them when they do the, you know, the guns that are brand new - [Mark] Mm hmm.

You, you mentioned the term nine, 1911 earlier.

And I'm not a gun guy.

So I didn't know what that meant.

But these, these, these handguns were, were designed in 1911 - Right.

- and they've been successful ever since.

It's pretty - Right.

- much the same design, right?

- Yes.

- And, and that was designed by whom?

- John Moses Browning.

- Browning.

- Right.

- People in Quincy would know that name - Right.

They should.

- Yeah.

Well, who, who was he?

- There, um, John's father was here in Quincy, - So, so - Jonathan.

- Okay.

Jonathan's father, Jonathan's father.

- Right.

- The designer.

This is father, and that's the old Browning family that goes back to Abe Lincoln's time and before.

- Right, it is.

- Okay, okay.

Because I think the Brownings were very tight with them.

- They are.

- Okay, okay.

- And, and the Arkansas manufacturer show us that one too.

- Right.

This is, um, company that I deal with in, um, - [Richard] Arkansas, that is Nighthawk.

And, um, about 9 years ago.

I got hooked up with them and I helped them.

I consult with them right now and do 9, no 7 guns that are Heinie pistols and do 9, no 7 guns that are Heinie pistols that they do that has my logo on it.

And, uh, they're built basically the way I want them.

- [Mark] Can I handle it?

- [Richard] Right, sure.

- [Mark] 'Cause I want to turn it just right.

'Cause so people can see, there's the Heinie logo right there.

And that's on seven of their models.

- [Richard] Right.

- [Mark] Wow.

That's terrific.

That's terrific.

Now this one I noticed has a red - [Richard] Right.

That's a front sight.

- [Mark] A red front sight.

- [Richard] It's actually, it's what is a, um, fiber optic.

So the light picks up through that.

And, uh, it's usually used mainly for the people that like competition - Mm hmm.

- is much better for that.

Or if you just like to go out and shoot, you can see that little dot, a whole lot easier.

- Did they ask you to do it that way?

Do they like it that way or did you just come up with that?

- Well, no.

- That's just my idea of putting it on there.

There are a lot of people sell these right now and, um, we have several of them that have that on it.

- Mm hmm.

I mean, that's one of the ones that we sell right now, too.

- Mm Hmm.

- Okay.

So in addition to making, uh, the other half of the Quincy police departments sights for their guns, are you staying pretty busy otherwise too?

- Very busy.

- Really?

- Very very busy.

- Do you ever do, do you ever think about taking on another helper?

You do this all by yourself.

Don't you?

- No, - I do it by myself.

(laughing) - And that's the way you like it.

- I have somebody that does the selling and I do the other part of it.

- Mm Hmm.

Mm Hmm.

- It's the way I want it, I don't want a lot of people.

- Okay.

Well, I'll tell you what I'm going to ask you to do.

We still have, uh, about 20 minutes of this program left.

We got some very interesting video of you at your work.

But what I'd like to do next is, is get a start from how you get started.

How do you, how do you design one and then how do you build it?

Can we do that?

- Okay - Sure.

- All right.

(underground rock music) (gun shooting) (gun shooting) - [Mark] Richard, way back when, when you first started doing this, you would, you would make these drawings yourself.

You would, you would design your sight yourself.

And this is an example - [Richard] Right.

- [Mark] of how you would lay it out.

You'd very carefully measure, and you'd get the picture in your mind at what you want.

And then you'd lay it out like this.

This is what designers and toolmakers do.

- [Richard] That's right.

- [Mark] How do you, how do you make these fine measurements?

Because these are very, very fine measurements.

- [Richard] Well, once you do it, then you use the all of the mikes and the, um, CalPERS and whatever you need as a, you know, machinist to do it.

- [Mark] And these are, these are the tools of the trade.

Aren't they?

- [Richard] Right.

- [Mark] Right here.

What does this do for you?

What does that do?

- [Richard] That's uh, uh, dial calipers.

- [Mark] What about this?

- [Richard] Micrometer.

- [Mark] Micro, you can tell that I'm not.

- [Richard] That's another micrometer.

- [Mark] Another micrometer, okay.

And, and, what you're doing is you're, you're, you're you're goal is to make one of these and you're starting out with a hunk of steel.

and you're starting out with a hunk of steel.

- [Richard] Right.

- [Mark] This is the hunk of steel, right?

- [Richard] Right.

(laughing) - [Mark] Okay, show me how this, how this, helps you - [Mark] Okay, show me how this, how this, helps you turn this, into this.

(giggles) - Here take a whole - Well, that is you put it in the mill - [Richard] and you start whacking it and I'm cutting steel off of it.

- [Mark] Mm Hmm.

- [Richard] Until you make a part.

- [Mark] You've got three different variations here.

- [Richard] Right.

These were actually, this is what started.

It's what I call the classic - [Mark] Mm Hmm.

- [Richard] is when I first started doing them, and this is the one that I had started and it has, the rear phase has a back and that's typical.

- [Mark] Can you turn that to the camera for us?

- [Richard] Typical of a, um, a sight for years - [Richard] Typical of a, um, a sight for years and years and years for, um, normal shooting.

- Mm Hmm.

- And I used that for a long time.

And it got to the point where some people said, well you know, this kind of bothers me a little bit, I hit this.

And one thing another.

- Yeah.

So the next one I came up with, I came up with this, - [Richard] which I call the swamp pro.

And you'll see, it's got a lot of nice curves in and everything.

So it doesn't hit on anything in the back is actually has, um, slant forward - [Mark] Can you back toward the camera a little bit.

There you go.

- [Richard] And there's serrations in there.

And with these serrations and with that angle, it's actually blacker than what the old classic style.

- So the serrations prevent glare, prevent the glare.

- Right - Okay.

All right.

And then there was, was this.

- And then this is because of what's going - [Richard] on with Iraq, Afghanistan, and, and police officers.

They wanted to be able to use one hand to use the pistol They wanted to be able to use one hand to use the pistol - [Mark] Mm hmm.

- [Richard] by using the sight.

So I came up with another one where we took the slant pro cut it off and change it into what we call a ledge, so that this, you can hook this on your clothes.

You could hook it on to whatever, you know.

- [Mark] Yeah.

- [Richard] Well, so that you could actually work the gun.

- Can you show us how that would, - Sure - how that would work.

- He would take like this, which would be a Glock.

- [Richard] And you could just like... (gun cocking) - [Mark] Oh, man.

One hand and you're ready to shoot.

- [Richard] Right.

- [Mark] Because you might be otherwise engaged.

- Because a lot of times, um, an officer may be down or, you know, have something in his other foot or other hand, I mean, and, um, have a problem.

And he'd have to be able to make the gun work.

- Yeah.

This is the way these things are designed nowadays.

- [Richard] Right.

That's.

- [Mark] You're not a computer guy - [Richard] No, I'm not - [Mark] but this looks like computer work.

- [Richard] But I have, a, a guy that does all the computer stuff for me now.

- [Mark] Mm hmm.

- [Richard] I give him a sketch, tell him what I want, and he does it.

- [Mark] Mm Hmm.

Like, for instance, you say here, serrate this face 40 LPI.

- [Richard] Right.

- [Mark] And then you've got an arrow there and we saw what the serration looks like.

So, so he knows, he knows to, to get the the computer to go ahead and put that in there for you.

- [Richard] Right.

- [Mark] Now, this one too, this one has two holes to screw it onto the weapon where the other one's just had one.

- [Richard] Well, this is one that I, is actually what we call them easy lock.

This is one where you don't have to do any filing to install this.

There's a little two screws and a locking pin - Mm Hmm - and you just slide it on and tighten the screws.

And it's done just in a matter of just a few minutes, you're done.

- It's just amazing to me that you can take a piece of steel like this and turn it into something - [Mark] as intricate and sophisticated as these gun sights.

Can we go over to the mill and see how this gets started?

- [Richard] Sure.

- Okay.

Just start with a block of steel.

- And this is a mill we're working on?

- Right.

This is a mill.

(machine whirring) - [Richard] I mean, this is one for, I'm going to do for a product prototype.

- [Mark] A prototype?

- [Richard] Prototype.

- [Mark] Okay.

- [Richard] So I'm going to, this'll be the one that I'll be, you gotta start by get everything square.

you gotta start by get everything square.

- [Mark] You're, you're trying to get it down to a workable size right now.

Is that what you're doing?

- [Richard] Yeah.

We're just working it down.

Where I am gonna start with it.

(machine whirring) - [Mark] And what is that, uh, it's, what is that an auger?

what is that thing called that's milling?

- [Richard] Milling cutter - [Mark] A milling cutter, okay.

- [Richard] Carbide milling cutter.

- [Mark] And the challenge here is to just keep the same depth through the whole thing.

So you get a nice even surface.

Is that what we're - [Richard] Right.

- [Mark] striving for?

- [Richard] I'm trying to start and get everything good and square before you can do anything.

- [Mark] Mm hmm (machine shutting down) - Of course you have to do some of that by hand.

Don't you?

- Right.

You have to get the burrs off of everything.

- Mm hmm.

Mm hmm.

- [Mark] And Richard, sometimes you'll get a request to like for this colt, for instance, you know, they want a, they want a sight built for this.

Your sight, isn't going to fit on there, you got to cut.

Actually cut the, the, the pistol - [Richard] Right.

I have to.

- [Mark] What, what's the process here?

- [Richard] Well, you actually would set it up on the mill.

Like, I'm going to do with the piece over there and cut the dovetail to match the site, and cut the dovetail to match the site, is what I'm going to do.

- [Mark] Mm hmm.

And that means cutting, cutting into this steel and quite a bit, you've cut quite a bit out of there.

- [Richard] Right.

- [Mark] And how do you know that, that's going to that, that, that sight's going to slide on there.

- [Richard] Well, I know that was just starts in that I know it's gonna go in all at once.

I try and change all of the corners off of it and the, the birds, I know that will drive in.

- Mm hmm.

Well, what if, what if you tried to slide that on there right now?

- Right now, it wouldn't go in - Okay, you still need, - Yeah.

- need to do some work on it.

- You'd have to do a little bit of work and then drive it in - Okay - Mm hmm - And then you've got, this is the front sight.

- And this is the front sight.

- And I can see you've done pretty much.

If we hold that - [Richard] Right.

- [Mark] up there like that.

- [Richard] It is very same, same thing.

It's a dovetail.

And it'll same way.

And it'll same way.

- [Mark] Mm hmm - [Richard] Once it's cleaned up, it'll drive into that.

- [Mark] Mm hmm (upbeat music) - [Richard] And these are made to fit within about half a thousands.

(whistles) - A thousands of an inch?

- Yes.

- half a thousands of an inch.

- My goodness.

Well, that's a pretty tight fit - Right.

- Is that why you have to drive it - That's why you have to drive it.

- And then will you also, like, after you drive it in there then you will fix it too with us.

- Right.

What I like to do is once I've got it in there like on the front side, we'll use a Loctite to go in around there just to make sure that it's not going to come loose.

- [Mark] Mm hmm - [Richard] I mean, they're tight to start with, but the Loctite we'll make sure that this stick.

- [Mark] Mm hmm.

- Richard, you might finish something here in the shop and it, and it looks and feels really good, but I guess unless you shoot it, unless you get it out in the field you don't really, do you?

- That's right.

- How do you, how do you, how do you, tell?

- Well, we have a good idea where it should be.

And so I'll make them what I think it's going to be.

And then I go to the range, actually take and take a bunch of different ammo and I will shoot it.

And then I usually a good guy.

It's a friend of mine.

It's a cop here in Queensland.

I will have him also.

And between the two of us, we should be able to tell whether that's going to be this right.

If it's not, I can change it, how much I have to change it.

And, uh, you know, then go back and make another one, change the changes, go back and shoot it again.

- It's important for you to be a good shot.

- Oh, you have to.

Right.

- Yeah.

Because, because you wouldn't learn anything from shooting it, - Yeah.

- if you weren't a good shot.

- That's right.

- So, so you and the, and the fellow we're talking about your crack shots.

And so you know that if you're missing, there's something wrong with the sight.

- Right.

- Okay.

So is it possible to make corrections?

How do you make corrections to to this?

- Well, I may have to cut it off.

I may have to make it shorter or if it isn't, if it's too short and I have to make something longer and you know, like a, another part to actually do it, uh, sometimes we can do it right there, you know, by driving over, one side or the other or file it off a little bit until it works.

And then we have, we know where it's at.

So with the prototype and we just file it off, if it's too tall and normally I try to be on the high side so we can, you know, cut it off while we're at the range and cut it down.

What we want.

- Do you ever make sites that are, that are adjustable like for instance, in the field you could adjust the sight - No, I don't.

or is that just beyond, that's out of the question?

- No.

- Does anybody do that?

- Yeah.

There's, there's companies that do.

- Yeah.

- The only adjustable ones that I have are, um, the crosswords, you know, left to right.

the crosswords, you know, left to right.

That's the only thing you can actually adjust a little bit because of the dovetail.

- Okay.

But not up or down - Up or down - too high or too low.

- Right.

- Then you got to just rebuild it or just re-install it.

- Right.

- Okay.

And, um, and, and which I guess what you really need to, you need a shooting range.

Why don't you install a shooting range?

(laughing) - Well, there is a range close by but the really best one is to go to Pasa which is about 30 miles from here - Mm hmm - South.

- And, uh, we can go there and we have from, you know, nothing to a hundred yards, really.

So we can do just about anything I want to do with it and find out how they're going to work.

- It gets you outside and out of the office too, right?

- Yeah, to do.

Yeah.

(laughing) - You did both.

- It's really nice.

- Gets a little break.

It's like a field trip.

That's great.

So you, so you built your, you design your build and then you take it out and you shoot it.

- Right.

- And if it's not right, you correct it.

- That's right - And all this is done before it's delivered.

- That's right.

- 'Cause once it's delivered, it's, it's, it's gotta be right.

- Right.

- You know, and I know people will, they'll buy their sights and put them on and say, oh, this is 12 inches low.

No, no, you're wrong because I've done a lot of work on this and I know what we have to start with.

I didn't, it just, isn't something, I just guessed it.

- [Mark] Right.

And that's what all those, all those measuring tools - Right.

- [Mark] and all that's about.

Right?

Okay.

And your eagle eye.

Thanks, Richard.

- Thank you.

(laughing) - So, in addition to finishing those other guns for the Quincy police department.

Richard also has to service his other clients.

And I asked him, do you ever take a day off?

And he says, no.

He said, I'd get too far behind.

Business is pretty good with another Illinois story in Quincy.

I'm Mark McDonald.

Thanks for watching.

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