LINDSEY MCCLAVE: In this episode, we traveled to Jackson County, to the home of Carolyn Carroll, and learned all about saving heirloom seeds.

MAGGIE KEITH: Carolyn Carol is a true seed lover and collector, and learned farming from her family, and is a great example of someone who grew up in sustenance farming.

She is a true Appalachian woman.

I'm Maggie Keith and I'm the farmer.

And I'm Lindsey McClave and I'm the foodie.

So, the concept of heirloom, to me, speaks back to preserving some sort of history, primarily maybe a family or personal history, and that was very much what Carolyn is celebrating.

She has these sweet potato seeds that go back almost a 100 years that have been in her family and while there's some time and effort put into that, it's really important that we carry that through to future generations.

MAGGIE: When we first pulled up to Carolyn's farm, we saw this beautiful old pear tree, and it was clearly an heirloom variety that had a lot of different pears on it.

And then we slowly noticed, "Oh, there's another pear tree."

And then we saw some apple trees.

So the first thing I noticed, actually, was the really old variety of rootstock of orchard trees.

And then we moved over to the hoop house, which the hoop house, to me, seemed a little out of place because you saw all these heirloom varieties and all this heirloom ways of farming, but then you had a hoop house, and she had mentioned that it was new to her and she was so excited to have it.

But right behind the hoop house was her garden space, which was diversified.

It was towards the end of the season, so you could see the remnants of corn and you could see some okra.

And it was fun to explore through there and figure out what had been there and what the garden had looked like throughout the season and where it was now, and how she truly was farming enough variety to have incredible meals every night and she was cooking and feeding herself and her community.

Carolyn, thanks for having us out to your farm.

Oh, it's wonderful to have you.

This is fun.

Yeah.

I've had a lot of fun with you so far.

I've seen some tomatoes, some beans.

You have some great history in your beans.

Can you tell me about where we are and how this farm became part of your stewardship?

CAROLYN: This was my husband's family farm and when my husband passed away, I just continued living here and I love to work and grow vegetables and I've done it all my life and it's enjoyable.

It's relaxing.

There's something about the dirt that just relaxes you.

And so did you always love to be with the soil and with the land, or is this something you came to once you met your husband and saw this farm?

Always.

I grew up on a little hillside farm around the road.

We grew about everything we ate.

We had our own milk, own butter, own meat, chickens, the whole nine yards.

MAGGIE: And when did you learn to save seeds?

CAROLYN: As a child.

My mother saved seeds.

And then the old timers, they used to save a lot of seeds that people normally don't save- they just go buy them- and I got curious because things got better.

There was more money available and they would buy seed, but I'd never seen a seed on a beet, I'd never seen a seed on a cabbage.

So I asked this person, I said, "Where does a beet seed come from?"

And they looked at me like I had two heads.

And so, they explained to me the process of how these seeds were formed.

Well, I didn't start doing it right then, and that came later, and I got to thinking about that, and my curiosity got the better of me.

So, I tried it, it worked, and so, I just keep adding.

MAGGIE: So, how do you get your original seed?

Like, for example, these parsnips right here?

CAROLYN: Well, if you haven't saved them for years and years and years and years, you find a company that has some of the old heirloom seeds - and you start with those.

- Okay.

Or a friend.

Yes.

If you can find that friend.

Do you have many of those friends?

Are there many people left?

Oh well, not to say beets, parsnips, and stuff like that, but as far as the beans and certain things like that, yes, there is still people around that still does have the old seed, and that's the way I have collected a lot of my seed.

So, when you think of seed saving in Kentucky, what's the seeds that you think of?

CAROLYN: Well, I mean, that would go across the board because the usual thing in the garden, anybody's garden, they had cabbage, peas, beans, tomatoes, parsnips, rhubarb- just a variety of vegetables, and so, that was just the norm.

And you grew up in that norm?

I grew up in that environment, yes.

So how do you think we got away from this?

I guess it was just easier to go buy the seed than it was to save seed.

But I think we're getting into a position now where we really need to start saving the old seeds where they've not been genetically messed with and they taste better.

- [both chuckling] - MAGGIE: Agreed.

So, tell me about this parsnip.

So, what makes it special?

This is a parsnip and it is an heirloom variety, and I planted these.

I ordered the seed from an heirloom company and I planted the seed and then the parsnips come up, so I had tomatoes and parsnips altogether, but now I want to save seed of these, so I'm going to take one up and then I will transplant it in the greenhouse to make it easier to carry through the winter for it to bolt and then save the seed from for later.

So you save the seed in the spring then?

- Yeah.

- Okay.

So, typically, people are digging these up and selling them and people are eating them around Thanksgiving.

But we're going to save them in the greenhouse throughout and then when spring comes, you save the seed and you just plant those seeds again?

I plant those seeds back, yes.

That timing seems like it was meant to be.

- Yeah.

- [chuckles] But now you would want to plant these a little bit earlier than when they actually bolt and you can actually get the seed.

So, these actually needs to be set out -- MAGGIE: A year out.

a little bit separate, away from where you're actually going to plant your crop because it could be in the way.

So, Carolyn and I got to dig up a parsnip and then we showed it to Lindsey and we went inside the high tunnel and planted it, which it all was just as simple as it sounds.

We just simply used a little hand tool to dig it up and then when we planted it, the idea is you plant it in the hoop house so that it can grow throughout the winter and then start to go to seed in the spring.

One thing I had never really cooked much was a parsnip, and so, after she was talking about this parsnip and the heirloom variety, I started craving some parsnips and I asked her.

As we were leaving, I said, "Well, how do you cook it?"

She said, "Oh, you just fry it in butter."

So, now, I must say I've been frying parsnips in butter quite a bit.

As someone who does not farm, or garden much at all, I was so taken by what a parsnip seed is, where that even comes from.

I mean, if you told me to save a tomato seed, I could go find a tomato seed in a tomato, but I never really put much thought into where a seed for a carrot, or a parsnip, or a sweet potato comes from.

Learning the process of what preserving your little seeds is and requires and where seeds for various vegetables even begin to come from was really enlightening for me.

MAGGIE: Okay.

LINDSEY: Now, why do you cut the top off?

Well, the weight of this will lean it; you want it to grow straight, but then more of the growth is going to this.

The top takes a lot of moisture, and then it will just stand here and grow.

And then there'll be a stem that comes up through it, and that's the bolt, and the seeds come on the stem.

So, that term bolt, I hear it a lot, but that is literally when a stem from the top kind of shoots out?

- Yeah.

- Okay.

And that's where you find the seeds?

Yeah.

And the first time I saved beet seed, I hadn't done it before and I looked at the beet plant and I thought, "That's covered with bugs."

So I went up and got closer, and it was the beet seeds, and they just lined the little limbs of the plant.

Oh, interesting.

And so, I saved them.

After we spent some time in the hoop house with Carolyn, she took us into her home, which the first thing you notice when you walk in there was this dining room table that was overflowing with the seeds that she's been saving.

Everything labeled and handwritten and just recorded in a meticulous way.

It was really amazing and just an abundance of work that's been done and preserved for the future.

CAROLYN: This is the knife blade white bean.

These are the goose bean.

These are the pencil pod beans.

So we sat down and talked to her a little bit more about her family, the process of saving those seeds and helped to shell some peas in the meantime, too.

So Carolyn, tell me, we are in your family home.

I can see on your family farm, and the moment you walk in here, it's just heirloom everywhere, I feel like.

You see these beautiful quilts, you have dishes.

There's just history and generational love.

You can just sense the moment you step through your door.

So, thank you for having us, first off.

- I really appreciate it.

- I am so glad you all came.

I am enjoying this so much.

LINDSEY: Well, good.

So, tell us how long have you lived in this home and how long has this farm been in your family?

The farm has been in the Carroll family since before the 30s, and I have just basic farm life and we grow a big garden and nothing like what you all already saw.

It was over an acre.

Whoa.

We grew peanuts.

We grew popcorn.

We grew just a little bit of everything.

And that was so much fun with the kids, roasting those peanuts and sitting around and eating them.

And so, that acre of land that you all were farming with, was that all just food for you and your family, or did you sell any of your food as well?

It was for just us family and we always shared with neighbors and things like that.

LINDSEY: Just sort of the way of life.

Just the way of life, yeah.

LINDSEY: Yeah.

And clearly that way of life is something you're very passionate about preserving.

- which we are so grateful for.

- Oh yes.

I still do what my mom did, I do what my mother-in-law did, and I've just kept it going.

So tell us what you -- I mean, this is quite the lineup here.

Those are -- when they're young and tender- they're a tenderette bean- when they're young, you can eat them just like a green bean, but then when they get full, they're like this.

And I can them up so many, I can't can all of them, but I dry them and put them in the freezer.

And then when I run out of the ones that's canned, I'll take a bag out, soak them, and put them in the jar and can them, and then anytime I want brown beans, I just got to go get me a little jar of beans.

And then, these also are sugar beans, but they're at a different stage of life, and you can literally take these beans and plant them, but you couldn't these because they weren't at that stage when they were dried.

Now, right there in front of you is the sweet potatoes.

That is a red Nancy Hall, and that is white poplar root.

I've had the seed of these for over 20 years.

These has been in our family over a 100 years.

- What?

From who?

- Oh my goodness.

- My grandmother grew them.

- Your grandmother?

My mom grew them.

And so, they've just been in the family that long and I have one brother that still helps keep them going.

So, explain to me what you mean when you say it's been in your family for a 100 years.

So, that potato, many generations back, the seed was saved and kept being just replanted.

CAROLYN: And you have to grow this every year, or you will lose seed.

And in the spring, I make a bed for them and I put the sweet potatoes in there, and this will grow slips.

Just a little plant will come up and you take that slip, and you take that and sit it out and then the sweet potato will grow right around that little slip.

I mean, that's truly priceless that you've had this in your family for over a 100 years.

What makes you so passionate about continuing this tradition?

And I mean, I feel confident you're going to do everything possible to ensure the sweet potato lives on a 100 years more.

It tastes good.

[laughing] Just get right to it.

I love it.

So, you showed us your tomatoes and I know you mentioned these are tomatoes that have been in your family for years and years.

So, I think what was really interesting for me was understanding a parsnip and how you get a seed from a parsnip because I don't associate seeds with parsnips.

Whereas, a tomato, you cut into it and there are the seeds.

So how do you do that?

How do you save a tomato seed?

Okay.

Well, I slice the tomato this way.

Okay.

And I have a little strainer and I just take my knife and just kind of wring the seeds out into the little strainer and wash them.

Okay.

Now, this is my pink beef heart, and I make little notes on them, and I use coffee filters because they stay stuck.

And this is my Rutger.

I think it's just so beautiful that you can use food and gardening in this way to preserve a family history and carry on something.

Any particular advice you'd like to offer?

Well, if they want to save seed, just make sure that they're going to dry before they store them.

Keep them spread out because they won't sprout if they're not going to dry.

And just go for it.

I mean, if you want to do something, just go for it.

Yeah, I've missed up a whole lot of times, but I've succeeded more than I've failed and anybody that wants to do this can, too.

So, I figure, if I can do it, anybody can.

Well, we really appreciate you sharing all of your wisdom and your amazing collection of seeds.

This has been so inspiring, and I, for one, am ready to cook with some of these amazing ingredients.

So, we appreciate you letting us be inspired by your work.

Okay, thank you.

LINDSEY: I don't know about you, but I was completely inspired by Carolyn.

I thought, just to walk into her house and see this spread of seeds that she's been saving for generation after generation, it just kind of blew my mind.

Yeah.

You could tell farming was in her blood and those sweet potato seeds that she'd had over a 100 years, I definitely was envious of.

Yeah, and how you even begin to save a sweet potato was something that I learned about and had had no clue otherwise.

And I think my family, my dad's side at least, is from Appalachia, from Heinemann, and beans have always been a very big part of the food culture from my family.

And that was something that Carolyn had been saving.

She had several varieties of beans.

Yeah.

If you get a farmer talking about beans, they usually get pretty excited about it, especially when you travel more towards the Appalachian region of Kentucky.

So the first time I was passed down a seed, it was a greasy bean seed.

So, what is greasy bean?

What does that mean?

So, greasy bean is just a term for, usually, an heirloom bean and it's softer and shinier than a typical bean.

So, this is a greasy bean variety, and so, you can see how shiny it is.

So, not only is the bean itself shiny, but when you're harvesting, when they're not as dry as this, sometimes, other types of beans will have this fuzz on them.

You can even stick them to your shirt and they'll stay.

But this does not have any fuzz.

- I see.

Yeah.

- It is kind of greasy looking.

And when you cook it, it keeps that shine too.

But also, beautiful, with the speckles there.

And then this one, I see, has a red color.

- And it's a different shape.

- Yes.

So that's a frijol rojo de seda.

So, seda is silk, so it's a red silk bean.

And mostly in South America, it's grown.

In Central America as well.

This is actually Central America.

This is from El Salvador.

So, this has been passed down for many generations, and the reason I picked to grow this this year is because the pods are hot pink when you harvest them.

- Oh, what fun.

Yeah - So it's a really neat looking.

And just what a beautiful addition to the garden, I'm sure, just with that.

Well, you were so generous to give me a whole mess of them.

- This was a mess of beans.

- Yeah, mess of beans.

And so, I decided to make soup beans, which is my dad's favorite, favorite, favorite dish that he grew up with and it's truly just cooked down beans.

And I think a lot of times pinto is what traditionally used, but really, any of these beans will do.

It's just the idea to make them creamy.

They cook for a long time.

So, I've had this on the stove for some time now.

I'll go ahead and bring the pot over and give you a peek at what is bubbling away.

- Ooh, nice.

- [chuckles] So, in here, I have this, and tell me again the name of the bean?

Rojo de seda.

Wow.

That is beautiful.

So, they have been in here just with water, and I have this big beautiful ham hock.

So, basically, I just seared the ham hock, and then add the beans, which you either want to soak dry beans overnight, or there is a little bit of a shortcut you can do where you cover them with an inch of water, bring them just to a boil, take them right off, rinse them in cold water, and it sort of speeds up that process.

So these have been cooking down in just about a half inch cover of water in the ham hock for about 2 hours now, and they're soft and tender.

And what my grandmother likes to do the most is she, or what my dad always talks about that she would do with her soup beans is to add a little bit of texture.

As they cook, she would just kind of mush them and stir them up against the side of the pot, and as they continue to cook down, some of that just mushy bean creaminess would just thicken the broth, or the liquor, you could almost call it.

I'm going to go ahead and let these continue to simmer on just real lightly and I'm really excited to share them with your family - that's going to be joining us.

- Yes!

And also to share one of your all's family traditions, which is making roast.

Yes.

And I think the roast, a lot like soup beans, is a method, and more of just like a family celebration and it also cooks for a long time, right?

So, I'm going to get these back on the stove and then you brought us a chuck roast, right?

- Yeah.

- From the farm.

I want to hear more about that.

- Yeah, definitely.

- All right.

We're going to be cooking a chuck roast from my family's recipe.

My grandmother always had a chuck roast.

Every Sunday, she would invite us over, the whole family.

I have about 30 cousins, a ton of aunt and uncles.

And so, it was something that could cook low and slow all day and then, by the time we got there, she was ready to entertain.

Of course, I think there was hot dogs and hamburgers on the side for all the kids.

But this would feed a crowd, too.

And in one big pot, which is one of the things I love the most about this type of recipe.

Yeah.

And so, this chuck roast is 3 pounds, so it is taking a big chuck roast and cutting it down into smaller portions.

And what is the chuck roast?

So, the chuck roast is actually up here towards like the shoulders and up high and so, if you can imagine a cow as it's walking, it's always using these muscles, so that's what gives it so much flavor.

It has the fat around it to support those muscles, but also, since it's used so much, it's going to have more intense flavoring.

Wonderful.

So, as it cooks down, I know when I've gotten to cook your chuck roast in the past, it just becomes literally almost hard to pick up out of the pot because it is so falling apart when you've cooked it in the nice broth, too, for a long time.

And I think, for me, with roast, that's one of the things I like to play around with the most; the broth and what you put in and it allows you to keep it super seasonal.

So, you can make like a summery pot roast and use more summer seasonal vegetables.

Obviously, this is a winter pot roast.

I love to do a pot roast and then boil down my sauce and add pasta to it and make a pasta sauce out of it.

The options are endless, and I think the one constant is the idea of gathering around this big pot of food as a family and sharing that tradition.

Definitely, yes.

I remember specifically the potatoes were so good because they're in all those juices.

So all of the cousins, we'd always try to sneak a potato after all.

The adults would always go first, sit at the dining room table, and we would be kind of scattered throughout the house.

I just remember it being a lot of cousins.

Pretty hectic, but delicious food.

- Happy chaos.

- Yes.

With beautiful food at the center of it all.

I like to enhance my broth, in this case, to really make it complex and interesting, add equal parts red wine and beef broth.

And then also, if you're the canning type, I have some whole tomatoes that I think are great to pull in and crush down in there and then it just makes the sauce a little bit more complex.

I've also cooked this with literally just an entire bottle of wine, - Yes.

- just beef stock.

I mean you could -- a lot of different options there.

So again, lends itself to many, many flavors.

So while this is searing, maybe we'll tag team chopping down these vegetables and we'll get everything going and in the stove so we can be ready for our big party, - our company.

- Yes.

That was a big debate in my household.

Like do you add the vegetables when you add the beef, or do you add them later so they don't get too mushy?

Well, I think there's a couple of different ways to do it.

So, if, in this case, I think of them as they're going to kind of melt into the sauce.

If I wanted to be fancy, I would strain the sauce after the roast is done cooking, take it out, strain the sauce, and then it's just flavored it, or you add it later, or so something I'm going to add to the sauce later that I like to do because I always feel like, especially in the fall and winter, I have greens in abundance.

So, at the end, I'm going to throw in some spinach.

And that just like adds a vegetable, great way to use up my spinach, and it adds a little bit of color and just another flavor profile.

Mushrooms are one I like to wait and add.

If you're doing this with mushrooms, you could maybe add the thicker stems, chop those down and put those in at the beginning, but then save the tender caps for the very end so they're still maintain some texture.

So, yeah, that is a good debate, and I don't think there's a right or wrong.

MAGGIE: Yeah, I know.

That's where we concluded.

LINDSEY: Which is wonderful.

So, okay, well, I'm going to get my pot on the stove in warming with some neutral oil.

I like to use grape seed.

And we'll get that nice and hot and sizzling.

It's smelling particularly good in here, if you ask me.

Our roast has been cooking low and slow, and we're going to go ahead and take it out of the oven and check out how it's come along.

Great.

Can't wait to see it.

Yes.

Smells like my grandma's house.

[chuckles] Well, that is lucky for you because, wow, what a wonderful tradition to have to cook beautiful food like this.

You can just see looking at it how much it has completely fallen apart.

I mean, it is that tender, and that, I think, is only a good sign, that it's sort of collapsed into the sauce, and our vegetables, you can see them in there and like I mentioned -- oh, that looks really good.

Yeah, we're hardly going to need a fork to break this up.

I don't know if we even need to shred this ourselves.

It's doing all the work for us.

I love it.

MAGGIE: Do you want me to try to keep as many veg in the juice?

LINDSEY: Yeah, yeah.

I would just take as much -- mean, it doesn't really matter.

So, what I'm going to do now that we're going to get this beautiful piece of meat out, I'm going to put the sauce back on the stove and just bring it up to a boil and let it reduce just a little bit.

I do want to taste it and we'll add a little bit of salt if we need to, and pepper.

Oh, there's a piece.

I think I did.

Yeah, there we go.

I think it tastes pretty good.

I don't know.

I always like to be mindful when I'm going to simmer a sauce down to not add too much seasoning at first, because as it reduces, the flavors will continue to concentrate so you can risk oversalting your sauce.

It's well-seasoned.

I know, I think it's really good right now, so I'm going to just let it go.

We're going to get it boiling.

We're going to add that spinach I mentioned just to kind of round out the meal and then it'll be time to sit down and your family's arrived, I think, so I can't wait to hear more about what it was like growing up in these big dinners, and I'm just really excited.

MAGGIE: Good!

LINDSEY: All right.

Fantastic.

Well, let's get the table set.

[laughter] We really appreciate you all being here and taking part in this meal and sharing.

I'm so excited.

I appreciate you sharing the Sunday Roast tradition with me and I'm excited to share our family's soup bean tradition.

So, Maggie and I will plate up since it's hot and stuff, so can you give me your plate?

We'll start.

Thank you.