(cheerful music) - [Speaker With Deep Tone] This is a production of PBS Charlotte.

(gentle music) - This week, an Unspun helping after Helene.

Why are hurricane victims in North Carolina getting more of what they need from churches, charities, and nonprofits than they're getting from the state and from FEMA?

We'll look at why government relief seems to move so slowly, just when Western North Carolina needs it the most.

Plus, we'll count down my top five things politicians want to say after disaster, but don't.

In today's America, welcome to the spin game.

Believe me, I know.

I'm Pat McCrory.

When I was governor and mayor, I played the spin game.

I was played by the spin game.

But aren't we all done being spun?

Let's take the spin out of the whirlwind here on Unspun.

(light intense music) Good evening.

I'm Pat McCrory and welcome to Unspun, the show that tells you what politicians are thinking, but not saying.

You know, the swearing in of a new president and a new governor is also bringing new focus on our disaster relief bureaucracy.

- Our country can no longer deliver basic services in times of emergency, as recently shown by the wonderful people of North Carolina been treated so badly.

(crowd cheers loudly) - That shout out to victims of Hurricane Helene in Western North Carolina came in the first four minutes of President Trump's inaugural address in Washington.

And Governor Josh Stein first day as governor included a trip to Asheville to announce five executive orders, all aimed at speeding up the state's hurricane response.

- The needs facing this region are vast and require immediate attention.

Western North Carolina, I want you to know that I hear you.

I pledge to do everything in my power as governor to accelerate recovery in the rebuilding of a more resilient region for the long haul.

- But in many mountain towns, hurricane victims still feel like they're on their own after waiting for help from Raleigh and Washington for months.

Just look at temporary housing.

You'll find whole neighborhoods of grateful families living all winter long and free-campers donated by nonprofit groups while empty FEMA trailers sit behind a fence near the Hickory airport and hours drive away from where they're needed.

So when government help doesn't come, when disaster relief is paralyzed by politics, or when it's held back by the bureaucracy itself, well then, what?

Maybe that's the real disaster that nobody in government wants to talk about.

Join us here on Unspun this week with more on how nonprofits have moved quickly to fill that void after the hurricane is Reverend Franklin Graham.

He's the president and CEO of Samaritan's Purse, the North Carolina-based relief agency that responds to disaster and provides relief all over the world.

Dr. Graham, we appreciate what Samaritan's Purse is doing for storm victims up in Western North Carolina.

And thanks for joining us here on Unspun.

Thank you very much.

- Well, thank you very much, governor, privilege to be with you.

- Listen, you've dealt with disasters and Samaritan's Purses dealt with disasters all over the world.

But this most recent hurricane was in your backyard.

Did that make it different for you and your teammates?

- Oh, absolutely.

'cause I mean, it's right here.

I mean, it affected my staff.

Their families affected me.

Our road was, had mudslides and for a while, couldn't get in or out and that kind of thing.

It's, and then electricity was off for me, for 10 days.

So to having a storm like this right in your backyard, it also, we had resources here and we started getting volunteers to come in and help us within a day.

We had people working.

And so, and it's just been like that ever since.

And it's given us a great opportunity.

Know people didn't know a lot about Samaritan's Purse in our backyard.

They knew we worked overseas, but that's about all they knew.

And then all of a sudden, the storm comes and we're able to help our neighbors and it's just given us a great opportunity to be a witness for Jesus Christ in our backyard.

- In fact.

Had it.

Since it happened to you, you also went out to California.

Did that make you respond or feel any differently since it happened to you while going out to California to help with the forest fires?

- No, we respond to every crisis the same.

And we kind of have a template and we know that if a hurricane comes and you have to step out of the way of a hurricane and let the storm pass through and come in behind it.

Well, for us here in Western North Carolina, the hurricane came right over top of us.

And so we were in it and we just had to start responding and helping our neighbor, California, we're not firefighters, so we have to wait till the fire is out and then you have to wait till the local authorities give you the all clear, now in the Eaton fire, Pasadena fire, we got the all clear, last week, we were able to go and start working.

We still do not have permission to go into Palisades and I don't know, there's a lot of politics going on, but the homeowners are getting mad.

They're getting frustrated because the mayor there won't let us in.

And we're willing to come in and just help sift through the ashes.

And that's all we can do right now.

Governor is just sift through the ashes.

- [Pat] Yeah.

- And so, we'll be doing that for some time.

We've got hundreds of work orders, people that have come in and signed a work order and given us permission to come on their property to help them.

So we're just waiting for the government.

- So let's look at Western North Carolina.

What do the people of Western North Carolina need now more than ever months after the hurricane is gone?

- Well, for many people just having access to their homes is, there's still bridges and culverts and so forth that are washed out that need to be done.

Housing is still a big issue.

Now, I don't know of anybody that's living in a tent because they have to, but some people are living in tents because they're staying on their property to try to protect, you know, from someone trying to loo their property.

But most people, I would say, the number one issue would be getting the housing back.

Samaritan's Purse will help people to rebuild homes.

If you lost your home, they make an application with Samaritan's Purse, we'll put 'em on the list and we'll get to 'em.

But it's not gonna be tomorrow.

It's gonna be maybe months before we can get to you.

- So you met with President Trump and our two senators.

What message did you tell them on what government needs to do now differently than the, what they've done in the past?

- The permits, the permits are a big problem.

I told that to President Trump, you know, he said, "Well, let's just remove all the permits."

Well, I, that's fine you do at the federal level, but a lot of these permits are the counties and local municipalities.

And many of these people, as you know, governor, they don't meet every day.

They may meet once a month or once every other month.

And it's just so slow getting permits.

And I wish that the governor, I don't know, you would know if the governor has the power to be able to bypass these permitting process and let people just go and start building their houses back.

- Well, both.

- But if you don't do something, it's gonna be a problem.

- Mayors and governors have emergency orders that they can enact on just those types of issues.

And in fact, go, president Trump is talking about transferring the power of FEMA more to the local and state level.

Did you talk to him about that and how- - That would be my suggestion is, you know, if FEMA misuses money at the federal level, well, I mean, who's gonna slap their hand if the money is transferred to the state and the state is responsible for spending the money.

If some local official misuses the money, it'll be seen quicker the people will be responsible for dealing with it.

I think the lower you go down in the state, I think more accountability.

So, I would certainly give the money to the states.

- So why does it seem like nonprofits, like Samaritan's Purse does such a better job than the government?

You mentioned you have a template.

Is that why you do better because you maybe have more experience?

- Well, I think we do have no question.

We have a lot of experience.

And people at FEMA, it's a political, as you know, the people come and go.

And when you have somebody who's been there for a long time, you kind of know what to do.

We've got people that run these areas of Samaritan's Purse that have been doing it for 30 years.

So yeah, they know what to do and how to do it, and they know exactly how to access the levers of the local government.

So we just, you know, sometimes, we just move and then figure it out as we go, governor, you just gotta do that sometimes.

- I'm more, I'm more - if you wait until I'm more than you figure it all out, you're just gonna be sitting around.

(laughs happily) - So the people of of Western North Carolina, like other people throughout the world that you've helped, whether it be in Iraq or Ukraine, you name it, you've been there right at the battles front.

How do you gain the trust of these independent people that I know very well in Western North Carolina that sometimes, by the way, don't trust government and don't trust outsiders?

- Well, I have to, you know, the proof is always in the pudding.

And so, they want to see it an action.

And so when you tell a person, you're gonna come help 'em, and you show up the next day and you're there to help 'em, okay, they got it.

You got their trust.

What happens is people come in and make promises, and this is the problem with FEMA and some of these other agencies, they'll come in and make promises and then it's months before they can come back.

And people have lost the trust.

- You mentioned permits in Western North Carolina needed to help with housing.

What else do we not know, especially here in Charlotte and the rest of North Carolina that the people need in Western North Carolina now more than ever months after the hurricane?

- Well, I think that people need patience.

A lot of the work that left for the last four weeks, the last month because of the weather.

And we've had extremely cold weather.

You know, it's single digit weather.

And so some of the work that we were doing, we just had to stop and just wait till it warmed up.

Now it's warmer today and yesterday.

And so we were able to get back to pouring concrete and doing some of these things.

So, we just need patience.

But we're not gonna leave governor.

We're not gonna pull out and we're gonna be here till the need is finished.

And so we'll be here, I think, working on this particular hurricane, probably for the next three years.

- In the last 30 seconds, Dr. Graham, now that it's happened to you and to your friends and neighbors and employees in Boone and going all the way up to Asheville, what's the one lesson you've learned?

- Well, first of all, we took care of our employees first 'cause if they can't get to the office, if they're stuck at home, then we can't get the work done.

So we put together a crew and had 'em man in charge to take, to canvas all of our employees, the ones that were stuck.

I'll find out who they are and let's get a team of people out there and get them to where they can come to work.

So that's the first thing.

But that just stuck a few days to get that done.

But it's just, you know, you have to have your employees, your organization is only as good as the men and women that you have working here.

And we've got a great team, but you have to take care of the team.

- Franklin, I want to thank you for being Unspun.

You've got a big presence here in Charlotte right off of I-77, and you've got a huge presence throughout North Carolina and throughout the world.

And please convey our thanks to all your great volunteers with Samaritan's Purse for helping save lives and help people now more than ever in a time of need.

- Well, thank you governor, and we appreciate you and all that you have done for Charlotte.

But, of course, for the state of North Carolina, you're a great hero.

- Next up, PBS Charlottes, Jeff Sonier takes Unspun on the street for more on the response to Hurricane Helene.

- Yeah.

After the storm here in Western North Carolina that did so much damage so quickly.

Well, the response from FEMA and from the National Flood Insurance Program, well, it's been anything but quick.

At least that's what we're hearing here in the mountains.

(light heavy music) - I think the disappointment is the aftermath and the way that FEMA is, and NFIP is just dragging their heels.

- We knew initially the long-term, any help we'd get from FEMA or others would take some time.

The application process itself's a long time.

So, but I think things are on the way.

It's hard to gauge exactly everybody's situation.

You know, everybody's in a different situation, so we try to check on each other, and that's how we've managed that thing.

- [Speaker In Calm Tone] Everybody just kind of making do, I guess right now.

- Yeah, it's, you know, we kind of feel bad for the people that lost their homes, that are intense.

We've been giving out, you know, small propane heaters and stuff, but even that is not gonna be sufficient for folks in any kind of long-term situation as bad as the storm was and the devastation it brought.

The only thing is that that's gonna help is a new location.

(gentle music) - Leaving is going to be exceedingly difficult, (gentle music) but we need to figure out where we're gonna be tomorrow.

And I think the hardest part is just not knowing, is the state gonna approve the buyout?

What is FEMA and NFIP gonna do about the belongings?

So it's not only us, there's thousands upon thousands of people that just don't know what tomorrow is gonna bring.

(light intense music) - And whether you're a storm victim or a volunteer looking for help after Helene to relocate or to rebuild, it's those months of waiting.

So frustrating.

(light intense music) Pat.

- Well, thanks Jeff.

So what do you think about the response?

Email us your thoughts on helping after Helene to unspun@wtvi.org.

(intense music) All right, tonight on our Unspun Countdown, the top five things politicians want to say after a disaster, but they don't.

Let's start out with number five.

Number five, you actually wanna say the following.

Many people ignored the advice of elected officials and emergency operations people.

For example, surfers go out when hurricanes come on the beach exactly when we tell them to leave.

People ride through flooded roads.

Exactly when they, we tell them to get off the roads.

It's tragic when people ignore orders and it causes more tragedy in the long-term.

Number four, politicians don't like to say this, especially governors, mayors in the President.

And that is this, we weren't prepared.

And the fact of the matter is, the Western North Carolina hurricane came, we've never seen anything like it.

And in some ways, both the federal state and local governments weren't prepared, but they don't want to admit it.

Number three, this is tough to say, especially after disaster.

So you don't say it, but you need to say it in the long-term.

That is this, many homes were built in dangerous areas.

You see this in California, you see this in Western North Carolina.

You see this in the beaches.

They're built in areas where when hurricanes happen or when fires happen, disaster occurs.

Number two, guess who allowed those homes?

The government gave permits to those homes in dangerous areas.

So government is partly responsible for this incredible damage when you build homes and businesses, for example, right on rivers that often flood.

And number one, the fact of the matter is Mother Nature is more powerful than us.

(intense music) PBS Charlotte's, Jeff Sonier joins me now for Unspun one-on-one.

Jeff, it's been a busy week.

You got up to the mountains and saw some of the disaster.

- Yeah, seeing it firsthand gives you a whole different perspective.

And I guess that's kind of what Dr. Graham talked about too.

- Yeah.

- His own people seeing it firsthand.

But he talked about flexibility, the need for flexibility in government when it comes to dealing with disaster.

What's your opinion?

What should government do better than what they're doing now when it comes to disasters?

- I think flexibility.

- Hmm.

- And at times, you gotta go the heck with the rules.

We've gotta show action, we've gotta do it now or handle, be slapped later on.

In fact, during Hurricane Katrina, the New Orleans hurricane, I got a call from the White House going, "Mayor, right now we need to send two plane loads of people to Charlotte.

Is there a place you can put 'em up and answer, No, will not be acceptable."

(laughs jokingly) And next thing I know, we had two plane loads of people coming to Charlotte and I had to get on the phone and open up the old Coliseum, which was about to be torn down off of Tyvola.

And the answer, "No, was not acceptable for my bureaucracy."

They couldn't say, "well, it's closed, now we're shutting it down."

"No, we're reopening it right now.

We have no choice."

These people were in desperate needs.

You just have to not accept no as an answer and do it.

- We saw the president come to Asheville a couple of weeks ago, a photo off, obviously, for everybody involved.

But how does that signal maybe a different stance, a different focus now from the federal government when it comes to the mountains and their problems after Helene?

- It's a signal to two groups.

One is to the bureaucracy, which might be slowing up the applications, which- - [Jeff] Yeah.

- You interviewed a lot of people going, I'm not hearing from FEMA.

And by the way, the state needs to be fighting for them regarding FEMA dollars and also state local dollars.

And the second message that sends is to the people who are in harm's way.

Someone's looking for us, the only dilemma is this, is the people in harm's way still might not have sufficient communications to know what's going on, even with the president coming to visit.

- Yeah, it's a kind of a, you know, a problem, everywhere you turn, there's another problem to face.

- Yeah, yeah.

- You mentioned the state.

Governor Stein said that we need an accelerated response to what's happened in the mountains, that they need immediate attention.

Is that a swipe at the last governor that we haven't been moving quickly enough to help those folks?

- Sometimes, you take the past leadership, even when Governor Cooper and Governor Stein are very close.

In fact, I'd say Cooper might be a mentor.

- Yeah.

- But Stein moves quicker.

Stein is probably a better speaker out in public.

He's a man, he's showing, he's a person of action and sometimes, he gotta throw away the old guard and just kick him down the cliff and show that I'm in-charge now.

There's a new sheriff in town and I am moving because as you can see, the people are not happy.

- [Jeff] Yeah.

- In Western North Carolina.

- So you've got the government doing their thing.

You've got private nonprofits, charities doing their thing.

- Right.

- How much coordination is there between the two?

Or is there coordination between?

- Well, there should be incredible coordination.

As I've mentioned in previous show, I went through training in my first month of government with all the federal state, local, and private sector charity partners in a simulation in Raleigh.

And spent the whole day doing that.

So we know what to expect from each other before the storm arrives, before the disaster arrives.

And I frankly think these press conferences ought to have the mayors, the county commissioners, the two senators which we had, they all gotta be there.

But before they go in front of the camera, they need to be in a room by themselves and go, "Okay, where are their breakdowns?

Where do we need to make improvements?

Who's in-charge of what?"

And the nonprofits need to be in this that same room.

And so should, especially the electric utility companies.

- A lot of the nonprofits are faith-based groups.

- Yeah.

- Is there a problem with government working with faith-based groups?

Are they speaking the same language?

- Well, we even have some disputes among nonprofits.

I remember with Hurricane Katrina, I had a issue between the Red Cross and the Salvation Army regarding religious material inside the arena.

And the Red Cross had some prohibitions to that.

The Salvation Army said, "We're not coming unless we can do that."

So even among agencies, you can have conflicts.

And I just cut through it.

I said, "Listen, we're doing this.

I don't care.

We've got several 100 people getting off planes.

They're soaking wet.

They have no money, they have no food, they're hurting.

We're gonna make this work."

- I remember during one of the hurricanes when you were governor, you were talking to the people, you know, from the podium about making better decisions.

I'll put it nicely.

And how do you walk that fine line between letting them know this is a serious, dangerous situation, but not scolding them or lecturing them?

- I got a little heat for using a term in, before the storm came.

- I remember.

- And even during the storm, I said, "Don't put your stupid hat on."

And I repeated that phrase over and over again.

It wasn't a direct assault to an individual.

It was in like talking to the surfers.

- [Jeff] Right.

- Who go out to go catch the great big wave, not knowing that if they are in trouble, we gotta send emergency operations people out there in the ocean.

- [Jeff] Yeah.

- To save their lives.

That's being stupid.

And it's also being selfish.

So, I use that term.

I even was thinking about getting buttons in future storms.

Don't put your stupid hat on.

And so it was a way to walk that fine line between lecturing and getting a message that you had to get across.

And actually that message is even more important after a storm.

We had that during our hurricane here in Charlotte, Hugo, where people would get up on the roofs with power lines on the roofs or with chainsaws.

And we lost several people - [Jeff] Yeah.

- after the storm, during the recovery, because people went, "Oh, well, that'll be no problem."

- Yeah.

- And it's actually, the conditions are often more dangerous after the storm than during the storm.

- Last quick question in our last- - And it breaks her heart too.

- Yeah.

- I still think about the 26 people who died during Hurricane Matthew on my watch.

- Yeah.

- And I kind of take it personal, - You know, you heard the frustration from the folks in the mountains about- - Yeah.

- How slow the reaction's been.

How do you build trust when the trust isn't there?

- You keep going there after the cameras are gone.

- [Jeff] Hmm.

- That's the biggest thing.

Don't just come for a press conference.

Come the governor, the mayors, the emergency operations where they gotta be there knowing it's not about them, it's about the victims.

And then the victims will gain your trust.

- You're seeing this first hand up in the mountains yourself right now, aren't you?

- Oh, and the people in Western North Carolina, they live in valleys and they're very independent.

They're rather libertarian.

They don't like government on both the left and the right.

In fact, the left and the right sometimes come together.

They're one common denominator is we don't like government.

So yeah, you have to show that we're really here to help you.

But you remember for years, they've been hearing government here to help us know they get in our way.

- Yeah.

- So it's a relationship and the relationship has to start before the storm, not during and after the storm.

- Glad we could refocus this week, our efforts towards what's happening in Western North Carolina so those folks don't feel like they're being forgotten.

- Well, I thought the Unspun cameras out there was just showed a signal to the people in this region that just an hour and a half down the road, people are hurting and they still need help.

- Yeah.

Thanks Governor.

Appreciate it.

- Thank you very much.

(intense music) During a disaster, the first priority is staying safe, but almost as important as staying in touch.

And that wasn't easy during Hurricane Helene, storm victims in the mountains who lost their homes and businesses also lost communication for weeks when power was knocked out, so was the internet.

Cell phone towers were damaged or destroyed.

Regular phone lines were down too.

Even first responders were affected.

So what happened next?

Well, it was a combination of high-tech, low-tech, and in some places, no tech, in towns like Black Mountain, they put up posters for town meetings where hundreds of storm victims would surround a police officer on a picnic table, shouting out information, like an old time town crier, victims were stranded by the storm at home, got their info from battery-powered transistor radios.

We also found out during Helene, that old school CB radios, walkie talkies and ham radios were still working and still needed.

Volunteers, even used mules to deliver supplies to remote areas.

And many in the mountains discovered Starlink using a mini-satellite dish to access the internet.

Starlink, which is owned by Elon Musk, gave away months of service for free with local computer stores supplying the Starlink kits needed to get back online after the storm.

So, what are the lessons here?

Well, Helene showed us that big government can't solve every problem alone.

Sometimes, a problem has more than one solution.

And even in a high-tech world, the simplest solution like a town crier may be the one that works best.

Well, that's the reality as I see it.

I hope you'll come back next week as we tell you what politicians are thinking, but not sane.

Right here on Unspun.

Goodnight, folks.

(upbeat music) (cheerful music) - [Speaker With Deep Tone] A production of PBS Charlotte.

(gentle music)