(cheerful music) - Will you consider this?

Years ago, you read an article in "Parade Magazine" when it used to come to your house in the paper and you read about the bluebird population and they were becoming endangered.

And this young man here, Herb Unkrich, decided to, by golly, I'm gonna try to do something about that.

So tell me about this article that you read.

And what year, do you remember what year that was?

- No, but it's been 45 to 50 years ago.

- At least.

Okay.

- Somewhere in there.

And they talked about the bluebird population had dropped from 1920 to 1970.

They estimated the population dropped 90%.

- And due to what?

Pesticides?

- Pesticides, lack of habitat.

Bluebirds are cavity builders.

They used to build in old rotten fence posts on the tops.

You drive around today, you hardly ever see a fence.

- Right.

Or they're the new particle whatever, right?

- [Herb] Yeah.

Well, I'm talking farm fences.

- Yeah.

Okay.

- And another thing they would build in is woodpecker holes that are in dead trees.

Well, everybody- - [Christine] Is cutting down the dead trees.

- Dead trees, so they don't fall on their house or whatever.

Or urban sprawl, you know, like new developments, they go out and take down more timber and things like that.

- Right.

So they were becoming endangered.

And you decided that you wanted to try to help some.

They're beautiful birds.

- Oh, yes.

- And you lived in Edwards at the time, in the country?

- Yes.

Yes.

- So how did you get inspired to do your first nesting box?

- Well, in this article, they talked, asked people to put up a nesting box.

So I did.

And it took two years before I got my first bluebird.

And so after I got that, I mean, it just knock your socks off, beautiful blue, you know?

So in that same article, it talked about putting up more boxes, have a trail.

And a trail consists of five boxes.

Where I lived, there was a road going back to a Caterpillar sales demonstration area.

Well, that's a nice road to put some boxes up.

So I put some boxes back along that road and you're supposed to check 'em once a week.

Didn't wanna... - [Christine] Stir up any dust or anything.

- Oh, I didn't wanna walk back there.

Didn't wanna start up a vehicle or anything.

So I saw JCPenney three speed bike laying in the front of the garage, flat tires.

So, hey, there we go.

I'll air those up and ride back here and check the boxes.

Well... Well, that first time, I hardly made it back.

- (laughs) I bet.

- And I was young then.

- Yeah.

You thought you were in shape, but then you found out you were outta shape.

Okay.

- So then after a while, this biking got pretty good, so I went up the road and started heading back other roads.

- Okay.

And seeing where you could put some more boxes.

- Right.

Some more boxes.

I saw this old guy sitting on the front porch and I was nervous.

I wouldn't, didn't wanna stop and talk to him, but I finally, after a number of times, seen him there.

He had a bunch of bluebird boxes in his yard.

So I stopped and says, "Do you have any bluebirds?"

And he says, "No."

He says, "Them gosh darn sparrows.

They just take 'em all."

I says, "Well, I'll get the sparrows out for you."

He said, "I'll pay you."

And I said, "No, you won't."

So I got sparrows out, gave him a bluebird.

So he tells the neighbor across the street, send him over there.

So then... - That just built from there.

- Built from there.

Yes.

- So sparrows apparently are famous for taking over other boxes, 'cause I think I read the first one you made was a typical bird house with the little circle in it.

- [Herb] Right.

- But so what problem does that present then when a sparrow decides to come and try and take over?

- Well, they take the box, so therefore the bluebird can't have it.

And if a bluebird gets in there, they'll get in there on top of them, they'll land on their back, and peck a hole in their head and kill 'em.

And just build a nest right up on top of their dead bodies.

- Oh my gosh.

- Or they'll get in and kill the babies, break the eggs.

They're just- - Just kind of nasty little things.

Oh, well, I'm glad you found that out.

And how many bluebirds do you think you've saved over the years?

So tell me about this box.

Now, is this your design?

- No.

- Or did this come with a kit or something?

- Years ago, there was a, in the "Birds and Bloom," there's an article about a guy in Paris, Illinois.

And he started a bluebird society.

So somehow I got into contact with him and he says, "There's a box in there you need to try to make.

He says, "It's got a slot instead of a hole."

So you can- - So there's the slot.

I don't know if you can, we'll tip it a little bit.

If you can see that.

Yeah.

So if a sparrow would come there, there's still enough room for the bluebird to get out?

- Yes.

Hopefully it would give it one side or the other.

Maybe the female bluebird could get out.

Another thing about a slot is on a hole, when the parents go in to feed the babies or check the eggs or whatever, when they go in the hole, they essentially shut the lights off inside.

So with a slot, there's still light being able to come in on each side.

- Right.

But, and even if they spread their wings, they couldn't block the light.

Okay.

All right.

And then, so this is another part of your invention that you put.

This is called a?

- This is called a sparrow spooker.

And it does work pretty good.

And you put that on after the bluebird gets an egg or two, because then they're driven to go in.

So if you put it on before, then that may scare your bluebird off.

And this is called scare tape.

Bird scare tape.

- I mean, is that how you buy it?

Is bird scare tape?

- [Herb] Yes.

It's on Amazon.

It comes- - (laughs) I'm such a city girl.

- It comes in rolls.

- Okay.

Awesome.

So let's talk about where you place these then.

They don't like city life.

Bluebirds do not like, we won't see them sitting on wires around downtown Peoria or anything.

- No, not downtown Peoria, but like the old IDOT building out there on Knoxville, that golf course there.

They've went in there and they've got bluebird boxes there.

Your Weaver Ridge where you're on the outskirts of town, you can put boxes there.

- Okay.

So do you install a lot of those too?

Do people still contact you so that they can get some of these nests?

- Yes.

Yes.

- All right.

And then, so where do you mount them?

- I mount them off of electrical conduit, half inch EMT.

This box, this was an old design.

Mine, it come up through here.

The pipe, well, once in the spring, it gets real windy.

That grounds, you know, it's kind of soft.

- And there goes the- - You see it's kind of cantilevered.

So then come up with this design.

This is when I went to this design instead of a 3/4 inch floor, I had to go with an inch and a half floor.

And I drill an inch up in here and put a screw through here.

And so now the boxes are mounted right dead center on the pole.

- On a pole.

Okay.

- And I drive a piece of rebar, a half inch rebar, about four foot, get a four or five foot piece, drive about half of it in the ground, then slip the electrical conduit over that.

That piece of conduit's four feet and then time you, excuse me, add this up, you got another foot.

So you wanna mount your houses four to six feet.

- So all right, and that's because of predators mostly?

- Right.

Well, that, and you need to be able to check your boxes.

You should check your boxes once a week.

- [Christine] Really?

And so that's what you're still doing on your bicycle and you're doing that all the time?

- Yes.

- All right.

And you're checking just to make sure everything's fine.

How do you go about checking them?

I mean, you can't open 'em up.

That would be...

It would just be invading their privacy.

- No, you can open them up till the babies get 12 to 14 days old.

Then, so they don't fledge.

Now with the slot design, I can turn my camera on, stick it in there, take a picture.

I don't have to open the box.

- So you know.

- I got four eggs, five eggs, whatever, I got babies, don't have to open it.

- Did you know anything about bluebirds before you read that article?

Except that maybe you saw one but you didn't realize?

- No, I never seen one in my life.

Never heard of one.

- Okay.

(laughs) Well, come on.

Well, no, I guess when I was growing up, we sang this "Bluebirds, bluebirds in and out your windows" song.

But no, I guess the boys were playing baseball or something at the time.

So, alright, so you know all about a bluebird's gestation period, I guess you would call it, that is 12 to 14 days.

And then they're flying?

- No, the gestation period is 13 to 14 days.

- Oh, okay.

- From the last egg laid.

So, like today's Wednesday.

If I was going out checking boxes and I stick my phone in there or open the box up and it's got two eggs, and next week I check it again, there's five eggs.

So then I'll know they laid an egg Thursday, Friday, and Saturday.

So two weeks from Saturday, they'll hatch, and I- - All of them will then hatch at the same time?

- Yes.

- Interesting.

- 'Cause the mom doesn't start incubating until she lays the last egg.

So if she started incubating on the first egg, then they would be staggered and then a little one would die and the big one- - Right, exactly.

Exactly.

Now how about her mate?

Are they like, I think, do cardinals?

They stick together, the males and females.

How about the bluebirds?

Do you know?

- They're territorial.

So you cannot have another box within 300 feet or 100 yards or length of a football field, whatever.

They'll fight each other off.

- Really?

Okay.

Interesting.

- And then after nesting season though, they're buddy buddy.

- (laughs) Well, that sounds about right.

Okay, so that's your box placement or I guess you call it nesting boxes placement.

And then you have the predators.

So obviously raccoons 'cause they get into everything.

And what other predators are there?

- Alright, you got ground predators and you got air predators.

Another ground predator is snakes.

And ants.

Then your air predators are the sparrows.

House wrens are terrible.

They'll get in and they'll pierce the eggs, throw 'em out on the ground.

They'll throw babies out up to five days old.

And they go around and they put sticks in every box, even though they don't want the box.

- [Christine] They don't have any intention of living there.

- Yeah.

And they will, he does that.

Then the female goes around and says, "Yeah, I like that box."

And of course the sticks are left in there, you know, so there's another box taken up.

- [Christine] You have found out all kinds of things.

- Oh yeah.

Too much.

- Yeah.

So, okay.

So we have some notes here.

So the box, we talked about the placement and the box design and the predators.

So predators, ants would be a problem if they were too low because ants can climb up on anything.

- Well, yes, but you can put a circle of grease or Vaseline around the pole, and then they come up and stop.

Or you can put some ant dust or spray on the ground to keep 'em away.

- But you try to keep 'em as organic as possible for the bird's safety.

- Oh yeah.

- What do bluebirds eat?

- They eat insects.

They can't eat grain.

They don't have gizzards to- - [Christine] Okay, to process that.

Okay.

- And wild cherries, they'll like, and mulberries, love those.

Like, after they fledge, I'll open it up and there'll be the empty nest and there'll be a whole bunch of wild cherry pits in there if they regurgitate them back up after they get the juice.

- [Christine] After they get the stuff off of the outside, the skin, the flesh.

Wow.

- And then, you know, they're in there, they can't go get a drink of water.

So that's their- - That's their juice too.

- Yep.

- So what kind of insects are they good for?

What kind?

- Oh, everything.

Worms.

Bring in great big worms and all that.

Man, it looks like they'll choke the poor guys.

Eating them.

And you see videos sometimes and it's like- - What do you think?

- And stretch their neck out trying to get it down, you know, so they open their mouth, whatever mom or dad sticks in, they try- - They do it.

Yeah.

So the mom doesn't chew it up first or anything?

- No, no, no.

- Okay, wow.

So they, but they're not big on seeds or are they?

So not sunflower seeds or anything like that?

- No, they can't handle it.

They can't eat it.

- So now once the birds, you said fledge, I mean, they're ready to go and they need a certain amount of room to spread their wings.

- Right.

Alright.

You don't wanna face the box due west because your evening setting sun.

Or northwest because when a cold front comes in- - And it's blowing straight in there.

- If they're just newly hatched, then you got that cold air blown on.

So you want to face it some other direction.

Like if there's a tree out there for 'em to fledge to within 75 feet or something, that's what you want to point it in that direction.

- So you're taking all these things into account when you're placing these?

- Oh, yes.

Yes.

- And what if somebody contacts you and then do you go out and you kind of, you know, surveil the land, just saying, "Oh, this isn't gonna work" or?

- [Herb] Yes, I've been out and helped them place boxes.

- Alright.

And then, so how many of these things do you think you've made over 45 or 50 years?

- Well, last year, I made, I think I had 23 and I ran out, so- - Oh no, you ran out.

Okay.

Well, so now tell me, so this has like a trap door on it?

- [Herb] Yes.

- So tell me about the trap door.

But I don't wanna open it, right?

'Cause I could be hurt.

- [Herb] Well, no, you won't get hurt.

- Okay.

I won't get hurt.

- It's spring loaded.

- Okay.

Oh, he's digging for the key or something?

- No, the- - The church key.

Oh, there we go.

- Here's a sparrow, imitation sparrow.

Alright.

You don't put this trap on unless a sparrow says, "This is my box."

And when they fall in love with a box, they will not give up.

So you can install this trap.

If I hadn't found this trap, I wouldn't have 125 boxes strung all over every place.

- Okay.

- It's called the Van Ert, V-A-N E-R-T, trap.

And you mount it inside.

It's a live trap.

So if you accidentally catch a a bluebird, you can let him out.

And sometimes I miss the trap.

But anyways, you're going to hear a little bang.

(trap clacks) - Oh!

Ah, yeah.

- And you got a red dot there to tell you that it has been tripped.

And then at that point I take a netted laundry bag and put over it and open the box out.

- And get whatever- - The sparrow out.

- [Christine] The sparrow.

Okay.

But sometimes is there also a bluebird in there?

- Yes.

Just let it go and nothing will happen.

They'll be back.

- So what's the biggest nest that you've ever seen inside or the biggest number of eggs?

- Seven.

- Seven.

- And that was last year.

And normally it's five eggs almost every time.

Gets summer and then it's four and five.

But last year, I had 47 boxes that had six eggs in it.

- Really?

- And I'm thinking it was the cicadas last year was the 13 and the 17 years.

- Together.

- Both came together.

So I don't know if that was it or not, but... - So who knows?

So they're beautiful eggs.

They're beautiful blue eggs.

A little bit different than robin egg blue.

- Right.

Well, you get some pale blues and you got some dark blues.

Now, less than 5% will lay white eggs.

- [Christine] Okay.

And why is that?

Or- - There's a chemical imbalance in the female and her next batch will also be white.

- Hmm.

So do the families come back or do you know, are you able to track them, that that's what they're doing?

- By having the white eggs identified, I've had white eggs in the same box three years in a row.

- So obviously it's kind of a family tradition.

Now is there a particular mating season or... Because I think I read in one of your articles that you saw some eggs after a really severe frost in February and they did hatch or?

- Yes, I had some that saw 17 degrees.

I thought they wouldn't hatch.

And I had a thermal meter and I shot the eggs, you know, and they read 17 degrees.

I thought they would crack.

- [Christine] Oh, for sure.

Right.

- But a couple of 'em saw 17 degrees and some rest saw 30, 35 degrees.

And that year, the president of NABS, I was at that conference and I was telling him about this and he says, "Well, you've got all this data.

Just see what happens."

He says it could be protein in there, it would keep 'em from freezing.

And all five hatched.

- Wow.

So NABS, that's North American- Bluebird Society.

All right.

- Bluebird Society.

- And you are the East Central Illinois President of the Bluebird Society or whatever?

How did that come about?

'Cause we're kind of West Central.

- Well, I started going to the conferences down there and the gentleman that started it has passed.

So I kind of, being I got a lot of boxes.

An active name.

- You rose to the occasion?

- Yeah, I guess.

- All right.

How many members are there and are you finding that there are a lot throughout the state of Illinois?

- Mm, I think there's about 87 members, I think.

Or maybe it's a little over 100.

I don't know.

It kind of varies.

- And then you, well, you confer about different things.

What is the most unusual thing that you have found?

I guess our population is one of the best in the country, right?

- Yes.

- And that's because- - Peoria County is number one in the state.

- [Christine] Peoria County is.

And that's where most of your nesting boxes are.

- That's all my nesting boxes.

- Okay, well, there you go.

Well, you know, maybe somebody did a knockoff, you just never know.

But, so how many bluebirds do you think we have in this area?

Or, and I mean, well, you're writing 'em down, but how do you know if you have the same one every time?

If you're double counting one bird?

- Well, no, the only thing I am counting is number of babies that fly out the door.

So I take, I go around and I get all the data, and then I come home and I got Excel spreadsheet with number nesting box X.

Nest, that's considered one egg or more.

And then the number of eggs is laid in that box, number hatched, and the number fledged.

And last year was my highest number, fledged out 969.

- Really?

Just in one year?

- Yes.

- And that was from like April to?

- April, about end of August.

Sometimes I have had a nest box hatch first week in September.

- But usually, then where do bluebirds go for the winter?

- [Herb] Some will stay all winter and some will head down to Tennessee, Kentucky.

- [Christine] And then they make their way back.

- Yes.

- Were you a bird watcher before all this stuff happened?

Before you read that article?

- I had a feeder out just for the woodpeckers and cardinals.

Anybody that come along.

- Are you pretty amazed at all that you've learned about bluebirds?

And there's so much more.

- Yes.

Back when I started, there was no internet that I know of that gave you all these tips.

So I'm kind of self-taught and it's amazing what I've learned is the same thing that's on the internet now.

- And you didn't even contribute to some of those things.

Yeah.

So do you keep in touch with this Bluebird Society?

I mean, you're obviously, they asked you to, you know, put your data, enter your data in, and other people are doing that in other states as well?

- Not to ours.

- Not to our extent?

- No, not to our Bluebird Society.

- Okay.

- It's just members.

- It's just the state of Illinois does it.

Okay.

So you said that you have a grandson who's 15 years old now, and he's interested in woodworking.

So you're not sure if he's gonna take over.

Has he helped you build some of these boxes?

- Oh, yes.

Yes.

- All right.

And what does he have to say about it?

Does he go with you?

Does he bicycle down the lane with you or anything?

- No.

- Did you see his shirt?

He's got a shirt with a bicycle and bluebird in that front basket.

His daughter had that made for him and- - No, she made it.

- She made it.

Okay.

So she loves her daddy.

(laughs) All right.

And the bluebirds.

So what, where do you go from here?

- Good question.

(laughs) I'm gonna have to give it up someday.

Yeah.

- You think?

- Yeah.

- But the bluebird, oh, that's one thing.

You had some bluebirds, you've recently moved, but at your other house that you could whistle and they would come to you.

- Yes.

- All right.

How did that come about?

- Well, you see people, and I'm on some Facebook sites and they're feeding mealworms.

And so I fed, I put up a little bowl beside the box.

And you don't want to feed right by the box 'cause then that draws others.

- Other critters.

Right.

- Yeah.

So I get 'em to come there about the time they was laying eggs, you know, they could stop by and they, oh, there's a bowl.

Oh, there's worms in there.

Eight feet.

I'd whistle each time I put worms in there.

And then once they learned that, and then I'd move it five feet, move it another five feet in a few days, and I get it up closer to the driveway.

Then whenever I whistle, in they come.

- There they come.

Wow.

What a sight.

Have you ever gotten any video of that once you put the call out and?

- [Herb] Oh yeah.

Yes.

Yes.

- So that's been fun for you?

- Yeah.

On that chart that I had that out in the truck, got a lot of pictures.

- Of them in flight?

- On the box.

This box is the only one that's ever made like this.

It's made from tree, the outer slabs from a tree, and they can cling onto the side of the bark, you know, and they'll look at you and got their worms all in their mouth, you know.

Get four or five from a bowl and they stop and look at you and into the box.

- Oh, so they're posing for a picture?

They're saying, "See, we're thankful."

(laughs) Right.

Okay.

Well, so you don't know if you're going to stop doing this anytime soon and- - Well, as soon as my health stops, then I gotta stop.

- Then you're gonna have to give it up.

But you said you moved and so you don't have the same shop anymore, but you saved the necessary tools in order to continue doing this.

- Yes.

And I had a friend that he says, he bought some of my tools and smoke wood I had, he says, "Herb, while I'm at work, you can come out and spend the day at my shop, just build your houses there."

- How about it?

- Yeah.

- Good friends to have, that's for sure.

Okay.

Well, (clears throat) and you don't mind being called Bluebird Herb?

- No.

- Nope.

- [Herb] I've been called worse probably.

- (laughs) Who gave you that nickname?

Somewhere along the line.

- Someplace, I think one of the bicyclists that I used to ride with in the club.

Somebody started calling me Bluebird Herb.

- And you don't have the same bike anymore, I bet you.

- Oh, no.

- You've upgraded.

Like a 10 speed makes it a little bit easier or?

- Well, actually now I've developed some nerve problems from the bottom of my feet.

So I've now got a battery assisted or pedal assisted bike.

- [Christine] Okay.

But you're still getting out there and checking?

- Oh yeah.

- Okay.

Well, thank you so much for sharing this.

We learned a lot about bluebirds today.

I'm gonna have to drive out to the country and see what I can see.

Thanks.

- Maybe we'll meet over at Jubilee Park or something.

- Sounds like a good idea.

- Come around.

We'll check them.

- We'll, yeah, I wanna come with you.

Sounds great.

All right.

So look for Bluebird Herb's bluebird nests and nest boxes, I guess they are.

And thanks for joining us and thank you for being with us.

- Thank you.

- Meantime, be well.

(cheerful music) (cheerful music continues) (cheerful music continues) (no audio)