>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL PRODUCTION.

>> GOO EVENING.

GOO GOOD EVENING.

I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.

TONIGHT, THE RACE FOR STATE SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT.

CANDIDATES DEBORAH KERR AND JILL UNDERLY APPEAR TOGETHER TONIGHT JUST AHEAD OF TUESDAY'S ELECTION.

THEN ANALYSIS AND A LOOK AHEAD TO ELECTION DAY.

BILL MCCOSHEN AND SCOT ROSS ARE ALSO HERE.

IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR APRIL 2.

>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS WISCONSIN.

>> JUST THREE DAYS TO THE SPRING ELECTION, THREE DAYS LEFT IN A STATEWIDE CAMPAIGN TO LEAD THE WISCONSIN K-12 SCHOOL SYSTEM.

THERE ARE TWO CANDIDATES FIGHTING FOR THIS JOBMENT DB HAS JOB.

DEBORAH KERR HAS WORKED IN THE BROWN DEER SCHOOL DISTRICT AND A R IS CO-CHAIR OF THE TASK FORCE FOR ADVANCING TEACHERS.

JILL UNDERLY IS A SOCIAL STUDIES TEEP ER.

SHE'S WORKED AS A LICENSING SPECIALIST AT THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION AND FOR THE PAST SIX YEARS HAS SERVED AS SUPERINTENDENT OF THE PESK PECATONICA SCHOOL DISTRICT.

MARISA WOJCIK PROVIDES THIS OVERVIEW OF SOME OF THE KEY ISSUES IN THE RACE.

>> THE RACE FOR WISCONSIN'S NEXT SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS IS COMING TO THE FINAL PUSH FOR CANDIDATES JILL UNDERLY AND DEBORAH KERR, HAVING JUST THREE DAYS LEFT IN THE CAMPAIGN TO APPEAL TO VOTERS FOR TUESDAY'S ELECTION.

THE RACE HIGHLIGHTS KEY CONTRASTS BETWEEN DEMOCRATIC BACKED UNDER LI AND GOP-BACKED KERR INCLUDING HOW THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION SHOULD HAVE RESPONDED IN THE MIDST OF THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC.

THE GOVERNOR CLOSED SCHOOLS IN SPRING LAST YEAR.

BY THE FALL, SCHOOL DISTRICTS COULD DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES WHETHER TO REOPEN CLASSROOMS, TEACH VIRTUALLY OR RUN A HYBRID MODEL.

>> SOME DISTRICTS REOPENED RIGHT AWAY IN SEPTEMBER, WITH A VIRTUAL OPTION.

OTHERS HAVE WAITED, KEEPING STUDENTS LEARNING FROM HOME AS POSITIVE COVID CASES CONTINUED TO RISE THROUGH DECEMBER.

>> SOME FAMILIES HOPED FOR US TO OACH OPEN SOONER.

SOME FAMILIES ARE THINKING WE COULD BE WAITING LONGER.

I'M EXCITED BECAUSE THIS IS THE CHANCE THAT FAMILIES HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO CHOOSE.

>> THE MADISON SCHOOL DISTRICT BEGAN TO PHASE KINDERGARTEN THROUGH 2nd GRADE BACK TO THE CLASSROOMS.

>> AS AN EDUCATOR, CHILDREN BRING JOY AND IT REALLY HAS BEEN JOYFUL EVEN THOUGH THERE'S DIFFERENT ROUTINES AND PROCEDURES WE ARE FOLLOWING.

>> THERE'S NO OFFICIAL RECORD OF WHICH DISTRICTS RETURNED AND WHEN, BUT MADISON AND MILWAUKEE APPEAR TO BE THE LAST REMAINING DISTRICTS TEACHING MOSTLY VIRTUALLY.

THE ISSUE HAS BEEN A LIGHTNING ROD OF DEBATE, ONE SIDE CONTENDING STUDENTS NEED TO BE BACK IN THE CLASSROOM, THE OTHER SIDE DISPUTING THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF RETURNING IN PERSON.

ONE THING IS CERTAIN: MANY STUDENTS STRUGGLED TO LEARN ONLINE AND DISTRICTS ARE PLAYING CATCH-UP.

>> THERE'S SOME STRUCTURES AND SUPPORTS TO MAKE SURE WE ARE ABLE TO TARGET INSTRUCTION FOR STUDENTS.

>> THE OUTGOING SUPERINTENDENT SAYS SCHOOL CLOSURES MAGNIFIED MANY INEQUITIES.

>> THE BIGGEST THING ON MY MIND FOR THE STATE OF WISCONSIN IS THAT WE HAVE SOME OF THE BIGGEST ACHIEVEMENT GAPS IN THE COUNTRY, SO I THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE THE TOP OF OUR FOCUS FOR EVERYONE IN EDUCATION.

>> CONTINUING TO DISRUPT PRACTICES THAT HAVE FURTHER MARGINALIZED STUDENTS OF COLOR.

WE ARE COMMITTED TO DOING THAT WORK.

HOPEFULLY WHO'S EVER IN THAT ROLE WILL SUPPORT US.

>> OTHER ISSUES ARE THE PRIVATE SCHOOL VOUCHER PROGRAM, SCHOOL FUNDING AND TEACHERS UNIONS.

FOR "HERE AND NOW" I'M MARISA WOJCIK IN MADISON.

>> AND WE ARE JOINED NOW BY THE CANDIDATES.

DEBORAH KERR JOINS US FROM MILWAUKEE.

JILL UNDERLY APPEARS FROM MADISON AND THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU FOR BEING HERE.

>> GOOD AFTERNOON.

>> HEY.

SO MARISA TEED UP SOME OF THE AREAS FOR US TO EXPLORE, FIRST REOPENING OF SCHOOLS.

DEBORAH KERR, ONE OF YOUR ADS SAYS WE CAN NO LONGER PLAY POLITICS WITH OUR CHILDREN.

HOW ARE POLITICS BEING PLAYED ON THIS ISSUE OF REOPENING SCHOOLS?

>> SEVERAL MONTHS I PUT OUT A PLAN TO REOPEN OUR SCHOOLS SAFELY AND SENSIBLY.

I HAD A REENTRY PLAN AND RECOVERY PLAN.

WHAT'S HAPPENED IS THE FIEFT FIVE LARGEST DISTRICTS IN THE STATE HAVE NOT REOPENED BECAUSE OF TEACHERS UNIONS.

WE NEED TO OPEN OUR SCHOOLS SAFELY.

THE SCIENCE SHOWS WE CAN OPEN OUR SCHOOLS SAFELY, THAT STUDENTS DON'T SPREAD THE DISEASE AND TEACHERS DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE VACCINATED TO OPEN SCHOOLS SAFELY.

WE HAVE OVER 70% OF SCHOOLS OPEN IN WISCONSIN.

THE MAJORITY OF THOSE ARE WITH WHITE STUDENTS.

OUR PREDOMINANTLY MIGHT HAVE NORTH STUDENTS ARE NOT BACK IN SCHOOL YET FULL-TIME AND WE NEED TO GET BACK TO BUSINESS SO WE CAN GET ON THE ROAD TO RECOVERY.

>> TO YOU, JI JILL UNDERLY.

WHAT WOULD BE YOUR GUIDANCE TO DISTRICTS NOW OPEN OR THOSE NOT FULLY BACK IN PERSON IF, AS THESE NEW TRENDS ARE SHOWING, COVID CASES START GOING UP AGAIN?

YOUR GUIDANCE TO DISTRICTS?

>> YEAH.

MY GUIDANCE IS I WOULD SUGGEST THAT THE TEACHERS GET VACCINATED ESPECIALLY IF CASES ARE GOING UP.

MY SCHOOL HAS BEEN OPEN.

WE REALLY WORKED HARD TO MAKE SURE MY SCHOOL COULD BE OPENED AND WE DID SO SAFELY.

WE SPACED PEOPLE OUT AND MADE SURE THAT WE HIRED ADDITIONAL PERSONNEL AND HAD PPE.

LIKE I SAID, MY SCHOOL HAS BEEN OPEN.

WE DID SO SAFELY.

THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG, IS THAT THE LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICTS KNOW HOW TO DO THIS AND SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE THAT DECISION.

>> NOW, THIS IS A NONPARTISAN ELECTED OFFICE, YET DEB KERR HAS THE BACKING OF REPUBLICANS.

JILL UNDERLY, YOU HAVE THE BACKING AND ENDORSEMENT OF THOSE THAT INCLUDE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, POLITICIANS AND UNIONS.

IN A FORUM THIS WEEK, MISS KERR, YOU ACCUSED DEMOCRATS OF BUYING THIS ELECTION FOR YOUR OPPONENT.

WHY IN YOUR ESTIMATION WOULD THEY DO THAT?

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW.

IT'S UNFORTUNATE.

I'M DEEPLY SADDENED BY T. THERE'S BEEN NAME-CALLING, DISPARAGING REMARKS MADE ABOUT MY SCHOOL DISTRICTS.

THE DEMOCRATS AND UNIONS HAVE PUT OVER A MILLION DOLLARS INTO MY MY OPPONENT'S CAMPAIGN.

SHE HAS DUG UP DIRT ON MY SITUATION IN BROWN DEER WITH A BUSINESS MANAGER.

SHE'S TALKING ABOUT ISSUES THAT SHE HAS NO UNDERSTANDING OF.

SO THOSE MILLION DOLLAR ADS ARE BEING RUN RIGHT NOW.

IT'S UNFORTUNATE.

THIS IS THE KIND OF THING YOU SEE IN A GUBERNATORIAL RACE, NOT A STATE SUPERINTENDENT'S RACE.

>> JILL UNDERLY, YOU HAVE SAID IT SADDENS YOU THAT THIS RACE HAS BECOME SO PARTISAN.

HOW SO AND WHY DOES IT SADDEN YOU?

>> IT SADDENS ME BECAUSE SUPPORTING OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS, WHICH SERVES 860,000 KIDS THROUGHOUT WISCONSIN, IT HAS BECOME PARTISAN.

THERE ARE ISSUES SUCH AS FUNDING, FOR EXAMPLE, REOPENING THE SCHOOLS.

THOSE CERTAINLY ARE THINGS THAT HAVE MADE IT BECOME PARTISAN.

BUT ORGANIZATIONS AND INDIVIDUALS ON BOTH SIDES ARE LINING UP.

FOR EXAMPLE, THE BIG RIGHT WING ANTIPUBLIC EDUCATION DONORS ARE OF COURSE SUPPORTING DR. KERR.

AND THEN GRASSROOTS, PROGRESSIVES, MEMBER-FUNDED ORGANIZATIONS ARE SUPPORTING ME.

YOU KNOW, I'M PROUD OF THE SUPPORT I'M GETTING BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE INVESTING IN A LEADER THAT THEY KNOW HAS GOOD JUDGMENT, CAN MANAGE A BUDGET AND WILL MAKE OUR SCHOOLS STRONGER.

I'VE BEEN WORKING VERY HARD TO GET MY MESSAGE OUT TO VOTERS AND I'M PROUD OF THE SUPPORT I'VE BEEN RECEIVING FROM EVERY CORNER OF THE STATE.

>> AT THIS POINT WE WANT TO GO THIS DIRECTION.

WE ASKED EACH OF YOU TO COME PREPARED TO ASK A QUESTION DIRECTLY OF YOUR OPPONENTMENT OPPONENT.

FIRST TO JILL UNDERLY.

WHAT IS YOUR QUESTION FOR DEB KERR?

>> OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

JUDGMENT IS AN ISSUE IN THIS CAMPAIGN.

DEB, YOU'VE CAREENED FROM CRISIS TO CRISIS IN THIS RACE.

YOU'VE GOT A FINANCIAL PROBLEM FROM TEN YEARS AGO STILL DOGGING YOU.

THERE'S AETH AN ETHICS COMPLAINT AGAINST YOU.

YOU HAD TO DELETE YOUR TWITTER ACCOUNT BUT NOT BEFORE YOU STARTED BLOCKING CRITICS.

YOUR CAMPAIGN TEAM QUIT AND YOUR MANAGER HAS ENDORSED ME NOW.

SO MY QUESTION IS HOW CAN VOTERS HAVE CONFIDENCE YOU HAVE THE GOOD JUDGMENT AND DISCIPLINE TO RUN THIS CRIST CRITICAL STATE AGENCY?

>> MISS KERR, GO AHEAD WITH YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT QUESTION.

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I HAVE OVER 40 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE OF BEING IN EDUCATION, 34 YEARS OF PUBLIC SCHOOL EDUCATION.

I'M PAROCHIAL EDUCATED AND BEEN A SUPERINTENDENT FOR 20 YEARS.

I HAVE LOTS OF EXPERIENCE SUPERVISING EMPLOYEES AND STAFF.

UNFORTUNATELY, BECAUSE THIS HAS BECOME A PARTISAN ISSUE, PEOPLE'S LIVELIHOODS HAVE BEEN THREATENED.

AND THAT'S SO UNFORTUNATE BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAVE TO GO THAT WAY.

YOU ALSO HAD AN ETHICS COMPLAINT AGAINST YOURSELF.

THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN BROUGHT FORTH WITH THOSE TYPES OF COMPLAINTS HAVE GONE TO PRISON.

THE ETHICS COMPLAINTS I HAVE, THOSE PEOPLE HAVE NOT.

I HAD INCIDENTAL CONTACT IN STARTING A NEW BUSINESS AND I DID NOT EXCHANGE ANY KIND OF CONTRACTUAL ARRANGEMENT.

SO I THINK YOU HAVE BROUGHT UP SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN VERY DEVASTATING TO MY BROWN DEER COMMUNITY AND THEY ARE BEHIND ME 100%.

IN FACT, THEY HAVE COME OUT AND PUT ADS IN THE PAPER SUPPORTING ME AND THEY WILL ALWAYS BACK ME BECAUSE I WOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO STAY AS A SUPERINTENDENT IN BROWN DEER FOR 13 YEARS IF I HAD SOME OTHER KIND OF FINANCIAL IRREGULARITY.

SO YOU ARE MISSPOKEN ABOUT THAT AND THAT'S VERY UNFORTUNATE.

>> AT THIS POINT I'D LIKE TO DIG INTO SOME OF THAT, BUT I ALSO WANT TO GET TO SOME OF THE IMPORTANT ISSUES IN THIS RACE.

SO I WILL ASK YOU, DEB KERR, WHAT IS YOUR QUESTION THEN FOR JILL UNDERLY?

>> WHEN A CANDIDATE SPENDS ALL THEIR TIME AND THEIR RESOURCES PUTTING DOWN SOMEONE ELSE, A FORMER COLLEAGUE, IT'S BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY'RE NOT CAPABLE OF COMPETING AT A HIGH LEVEL.

YOU CLEARLY, JILL, DO NOT UNDERSTAND OUR STATE.

YOU APPROACH EVERYTHING FROM A PARTISAN BIEWFER CAT BUREAUCRAT MINDSET.

HOW WILL YOU TAKE YOUR APPROACH TO OUR STATE AND WORK WITH REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE, ESPECIALLY AFTER CALLING THEM TRANSPHOBIC?

I'D LIKE TO HEAR YOU CONTINUING WHAT HAS GONE ON IN THE DPI FOR YEARS IS GOING TO MAKE US BETTER WHEN WISCONSIN KIDS HAVE CLEARLY SUFFERED UNDER YOUR PARTISAN STYLE OF LEADERSHIP.

>> MISS UNDERLY, GO AHEAD.

>> ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU.

SO THIS CAMPAIGN IS ABOUT GOOD JUDGMENT, AND I'VE GOT OVER 20 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE IN RURAL, URBAN AND SUBURBAN SCHOOL DISTRICTS AS WELL AS IN HIGHER EDUCATION AND INCLUDING THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION.

THIS CAMPAIGN IS ABOUT EQUITY, A LEADER WHO CAN BRING EQUITY TO SCHOOL PROGRAMMING, EXPANDING MENTAL HEALTH.

IT'S ABOUT LEADING OUR SCHOOL DISTRICTS THROUGH THIS PANDEMIC.

I HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE SUPPORTING ME, DOZENS OF SUPERINTENDENTS, SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS, COUNTY BOARD MEMBERS, CITY COUNCIL.

I HAVE A BIPARTISAN GROUP OF LEGISLATORS.

AND THEY SUPPORT ME BECAUSE I'M DEDICATED TO WISCONSIN'S KIDS, OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS, AND I'VE DEMONSTRATED THE GOOD JUDGMENT AND FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT WE NEED IN THIS POSITION.

>> I THINK WE LEAVE THAT SECTION THERE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

VERY POINTED QUESTIONS, DIFFICULT IN THIS NONPARTISAN RACE, ONCE AGAIN.

BUT THANK YOU.

I WANT TO GET NOW TO ACHIEVEMENT GAPS.

TWO EDUCATORS IN MARISA'S REPORTING SPOKE TO THEIR CONCERN THAT THE PAST YEAR HAD EXACERBATED ACHIEVEMENT GAPS.

WHAT IS THE VERY BEST WAY TO ELIMINATE THESE GAPS?

JILL UNDERLY, FIRST TO YOU.

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

ELIMINATING THESE GAPS IS SOMETHING I'M VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT.

I SEE THEM AS OPPORTUNITY GAPS BECAUSE ACHIEVEMENT GAPS SEEMS IT'S LIKE SOMETHING THE KIDS DID.

IT'S ABOUT OPPORTUNITIES.

THE ZIP CODE YOU LIVE IN DETERMINES YOUR EDUCATIONAL STUDENTS AND OUTCOMESMENT SO IN ORDER TO ADDRESS THIS, WE TO LOOK AT EQUITY, THE PROGRAMS THAT WORK, SUP AS SUCH AS WRAP-AROUND CHILD CARE FOR ELEMENTARY SCHOOL KIDS, LOOKING AT EXPANDING MENTAL HEALTH ASK SES, ACCESS AND ALSO RECRUITING TEEP TEEP TEACHERS.

THE KIND OF UNDERLYING ALL THF IS THE FACT THAT OUR SCHOOL FUNDING FORMULA IS BROKEN.

WE NEED TO INFUSE IT WITH ADDITIONAL RESOURCES SO WE CAN PROVIDE THESE OPPORTUNITIES FOR OUR KIDS.

>> DEB KERR, WHAT'S YOUR FIRST PRIORITY IN ADDRESSING ACHIEVEMENT GAPS OR OPPORTUNITY GAPS, AS DR. UNDERLY REFERS TO THEM?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, WE HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE SERIOUS NATURE OF THESE ACHIEVEMENT GAPS AND UNFORTUNATELY UNDER THE CURRENT LEADERSHIP THERE'S BEEN TEN YEARS OF THE ACHIEVEMENT GAPS ACROSS THE COUNTRY BETWEEN OUR BLACK AND WHITE STUDENTS.

WE NEED TO GET WISCONSIN OFF THE LIST OF UNDER-PERFORMING STATES.

I WILL DO THAT BY LEADING ADY VEERS SCHOOL DISTRICT AND FOCUS ON LITERACY AND MATH.

SO I WAS ABLE TO CLOSE ACHIEVEMENT GAPS, RAISE ACHIEVEMENT AND GET ALMOST 100% GRADUATION RATE.

IT CAN BE DONE WITH FOCUSED INTERVEFNTIONS AND HIGH-QUALITY CURRICULUM FOR TEACHERS, SUPERINTENDENTS AND PRRCHTS PARENTS TOO.

WE'VE GOT TO WORK ON THESE EXACT ISSUES.

I DO AGREE THAT WE NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE WAY SCHOOLS ARE FUNDED.

AND I WANT TO REMIND EVERYONE THAT THE STATE SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT IS IN CHARGE OF ALL STUDENTS.

IT'S THE LAW.

SO I WANT TO BRING PEOPLE TO THE TABLE TO TALK ABOUT HOW WITH CAN WE BEST FUND ALL KIDS AND WHAT DOES A HIGH-QUALITY EDUCATION LOOK LIKE SO WE CAN CLOSE ACHIEVEMENT GAPS.

>> AS IMPORTANT AS THAT ISSUE IS, I WANTED TO JUMP TO SOMETHING THAT WAS MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY AND THAT IS THE FACT THAT LEGISLATURES ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND HERE IN WISCONSIN ARE CONSIDERING THESE LAWS TO PROHIBIT TRANSGENDER AGENT ATHLETES.

DEB KERR, YOU SUPPORT THOSE PROCEED BENEFICIALS.

TELL US WHY.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE BEEN FRUSTRATED WITH IS SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS THAT REALLY ARE NOT IN THE PURVIEW OF THE STATE SUPERINTENDENT.

BUT I SPEAK TO THEM FROM MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES.

SO I'M A COLLEGE ATHLETE, I'M A GIRL OF TITLE IX.

I AM NOT TRANSPHOBIC AND NEVER HAVE BEEN.

I'VE WORKED WITH MY KIDS AND TEACH NERS MANY, MANY WAYS TO SUPPORT THEM NO MATTER WHERE THEY COME TO US, WHAT ENTRY POINT AND WHO THEY ARE AND WHAT THEY WANT TO BE.

AND SO THAT INFORMATION, THE LAW AND THE LEGISLATURE, THOSE KIND OF THINGS ARE VERY COMPLEX.

AND THEY'RE VERY NUANCED.

AND SO UNFORTUNATELY MY ANSWER WAS TAKEN OUT CONTEXT IN A SHORT, LITTLE SOUND-BITE.

>> OKAY.

JILL UNDERLY, YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT SAME QUESTION?

YOUR POSITION ON ANY KIND -- ANY KIND LEGISLATIVE BILLS THAT WOULD BAN TRANSGENDER ATHLETES FROM COMPETING ON GIRLS OR WOMEN'S TEAMS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU.

SO LOOK.

SERVING ALL KIDS MEANS SERVING ALL KIDS.

AND WE CAN'T TURN OUR BACK ON THOSE WHO NEED OUR HELP THE MOST.

THE TRUTH IS THAT THIS IS AN ISSUE MEANT TO DIVIDE AND DISTRACT US.

THIS RACE IS ABOUT WHO HAS THE BEST JUDGMENT, BEST FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT SKILLS AND BEST VISION FOR THE FUTURE.

THE COMPARISON IS CLEAR.

>> I WANT TO GO TO THIS IMPORTANT ISSUE AND THAT IS ONE OF THE STARKEST DIFFERENCE NOTICE YOUR POSITIONS AROUND TAX-FUNDED VOUCHER SCHOOLS.

GOVERNOR EVERS' BUDGET CALLS FOR A CAP ON CHOICE ENROLLMENT.

SHOULD IT BE CAPPED?

FIRST TO YOU, DEB KERR.

>> FIRST OF ALL, IT'S THE LAW.

AND I DON'T THINK THE LEGISLATURE IS GOING TO PASS THAT LAW TO CAP ANYTHING.

I THINK WHAT WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT IS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN FOUR YEARS WHEN THOSE CAPS COME OFF.

PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE IN A CRISIS.

I'M WORRIED THAT OUR PUBLIC SCHOOL PRRCHTS WHO HAVE PARENTS WHO HAVE BEEN TO VOUCHER SCHOOLS ARE NOT COMING BACK.

I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE EVERY PARENT CHOOSE THEIR PUBLIC SCHOOL IN THEIR OWN NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT THIS IS WHY WE HAVE SCHOOL CHOICE IN WISCONSIN AND I RESPECT THAT LIBERTY.

>> I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TIME LEFT BUT OF COURSE YOU WANT, JILL UNDERLY, TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU THINK THAT ENROLLMENT ON SCHOOL CHOICE SHOULD BE CAPPED.

>> I DO THINK IT SHOULD BE CAPPED.

I'M NOT LOOKING TO TAKE A VOUCHER AWAY FROM A STUDENT.

IN THE LONG TERM, WE WE CAN'T AFFORD TO FINANCE TWO SCHOOL SYSTEMS IN WISCONSIN AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERY CHILD HAS ACCESS TO A QUALITY EDUCATION IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL, PERIOD.

>> WE LEAVE IT THERE.

DEB KERR, JILL UNDERLY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> YOU'RE WELCOME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THREE MORE DAYS TO THE SPRING ELECTION, PLENTY OF TIME TO GO TO wisconsinvote.org FOR MORE ON THE CANDIDATES.

JOINING US NOW TO LOOK AHEAD TO LIKS ELECTION DAY AND FOR ANALYSIS, "HERE AND NOW" POLITICAL PANELISTS BILL MCCOSHEN AND SCOT ROSS.

THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

SO FIRST TO YOU, SCOT.

WHAT'S YOUR REACTION TO THAT INTERVIEW THAT WE JUST AIRED?

>> WELL, I THINK IT SHOWS THE REAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO CANDIDATES.

JILL UNDERLY BELIEVES THAT EVERY STUDENT DESERVES A HIGH-QUALITY PUBLIC EDUCATION EVERY DAY NO MATTER WHERE THEIR ZIP CODE IS AND DEB CESH IS KERR IS TRYING TO COBBLE TOGETHER A WAY TO WIN ON ELECTION DAY.

IT'S BETWEEN AN EDUCATOR AND A POLITICIAN.

>> BILL, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> WELL, I THINK WHERE I DISAGREE WITH SCOT IS I THINK IT WAS TWO QUALIFIED INDIVIDUALS RUNNING FOR THIS POSITION.

DEB KERR HAS BEEN IN PUBLIC EDUCATION FOR 40 YEARS, JILL UNDERLY FOR A LITTLE OVER 20 YEARS.

SO THEY BOTH HAVE BEEN SUPERINTENDENTS OF SUCCESSFUL SCHOOL DISTRICTS.

DEB KERR, MAJORITY/MINORITY SCHOOL DISTRICT.

JILL UNDERLY, IT'S ONLY 1% BLACK OR BROWN.

WHERE SCOT AND I WILL DISAGREE IS ON THE ISSUES PEOPLE DISAGREE ABOUT.

PEOPLE WANT THEIR KIDS BACK IN SCHOOL.

DEB KERR IS BACK FOR THAT.

THEY WANT ACHIEVEMENT GAPS EE LIMB KNITTED.

-- ELIMINATED.

DEB KERR HAS DONE THAT.

>> WHY IS THIS RACE FOR SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT SO ANGRY?

SCOT?

>> IT'S THE TENOR OF THE TIMESMENT WE HAVE A REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT HAS GONE FULL QANON.

THEY CONTINUE TO TRIEF TO PREVENT PEOPLE FROM VOTING.

THEY'RE ATTACKING TRANSGENDER STUDENTS.

THAT'S WHY THERE'S A NASTINESS TO THIS.

I THINK DR. UNDERLY HAS SHOWN HERSELF TO BE NO DRAMA, COMPETENT, REEF RELIABLE.

THAT'S WHAT THE VOTERS ARE LOOKING FOR.

>> SO, BILL, HE'S BLAMING THE REPUBLICANS.

I TRUST YOU BLAME THE DEMOCRATS.

>> WELL, THE DEMOCRATS THREW THE MUD FIRST HERE.

DON'T FORGET, THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY OF WISCONSIN HAS PUT ALMOST A MILLION DOLLARS IN THIS RACE.

THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HASN'T PUT ANY MONEY IN DEB KERR'S RACE.

CLEARLY JILL UNDERLY IS THE DEMOCRATIC FAVORITE AND TEACHERS UNIONS' CANDIDATES.

IT GOT MESSY EARLY ON TERTIARY ISSUES.

I WISH THEY WOULD HAVE TALKED ABOUT SCHOOL CHOICE.

JILL UNDERLY WAS A HYPOCRITE ABOUT THIS.

SHE SAYS SHE'S FOR PUBLIC SCHOOLS, BUT SHE SENT HER OWN KIDS TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

>> SHE SAID THAT WAS ABOUT FINDING A PLACE FOR 4-K AND AFTER-SCHOOL CARE.

THAT CAME UP IN THIS CAMPAIGN.

BUT, SCOT, WHY DID THE DEMS PUT SO MUCH INTO THIS RACE?

>> WELL, I THINK IT'S BECAUSE IT SHOWS THEY WANT TO SEE A GOOD, COMPETENT DPI SECRETARY.

THE FACT IS IS THAT WHEN WE DO THESE SPRING ELECTIONS, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS ALWAYS THE LARGEST FUNDER OF THE CONSERVATIVE CANDIDATE.

SO I'M GLAD TO SEE DEMOCRATS JUMPING INTO THESE RACES BECAUSE PEOPLE DESERVE A FULL UNDERSTANDING OF THE ISSUES.

DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT BY TALKING ABOUT DEBORAH KERR'S FINANCIAL MISMANAGEMENT.

THE FACT THAT SHE HAD TO TAKE DOWN HER TWITTER FEED.

THAT'S PRETTY BAD.

SHE LOST HER CAMPAIGN TEAM.

THESE ARE ALL SIGNS OF SOMEBODY WHO IS NOT UP TO THE TASK OF MANAGING THE STATEWIDE EDUCATION OF OUR KIDS.

>> IT BEGS THE QUESTION, BILL, WHY DIDN'T THE BETSY DEVOSS OF THE THE WORLD POUR MONEY INTO KERR WHEN THEY SAW THE DEM EXPENDITURES?

>> I DON'T THINK THEY SAW THE SHARP CONTRAST THEY WERE LOOKING FOR.

THERE WERE SOME MISSTEPS BY THE KERR CAMPAIGN.

THE SHARP CONTRAST BEGAN TO APPEAR, PARTICULARLY ON THE SCHOOL CHOICE ISSUE AND THE REOPENING OF ALL SCHOOLS.

WE KNOW THAT URBAN SCHOOL DISTRICTS IN MADISON AND MILWAUKEE, FOR EXAMPLE, STILL DON'T HAVE THEIR HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS BACK IN THE CLASSROOM.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT DEB KERR IS FOR.

I THINK IT WAS A MISTAKE BY THE CHOICE PEOPLE AND FRANKLY THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY NOT GETTING MORE INVOLVED IN THIS RACE EARLIER.

>> BILL, HOW BADLY DOES DEB KERR'S FORMER EMPLOYEE AND THE SUBJECT OF UNDERLY'S AD HURT KERR?

THIS IS THE FINANCE MANAGER IN THE BROWN DEER SCHOOL DISTRICT AND ALL OF THAT.

DOES THAT HURT KERR?

>> NO.

JUST SO WE'RE ALL CLEAR ABOUT THIS AND YOUR VIEWERS, THIS IS PREACT 10 AND IT WAS MUCH HARDER TO FIRE A BAD EMPLOYEE IN THOSE DAYS.

HAD THAT OCCURRED AFTER ACT 10, DEB COULD HAVE ACTED MORE QUICKLY TO GET RID OF THAT PERSON.

>> JILL UNDERLY SAYS THAT GOES TO JUDGMENT, THAT KIND OF THING.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

BILL'S POINT ON THE CHOICE COMMUNITY NOT GETTING INVOLVED AS MUCH, THE DEVOS FOLKS, I THINK IF DEB KERR HAD STARTED HER CAMPAIGN ATTACKING TEACHERS OVER AND OVER AGAIN, I THINK THEY WOULD HAVE COME IN A LOT EARLIER BECAUSE THAT'S SEEMS TO BE WHAT SHE HAS TO SAY, THE TEACHERS ARE THE PROBLEM.

THAT'S NOT WHAT VOTERS BELIEVE.

>> THE UNION IS THE PROBLEM, NOT THE TEACHERS.

I THINK DEB KERR BELIEVES THE TEACHERS WANT TO BE BACK IN THE CLASSROOM, BUT UNIONS ARE PREVENTING THAT.

JILL UNDERLY IS HAVING AN EVENT WITH THE UNIONS TODAY IN MADISON TODAY WHILE THE HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS CAN'T BE IN THE CLASSROOM.

>> I DON'T THINK THE QUESTION IS WHY JILL UNDERLY IS GETTING THE SUPPORT OF THE HARD-WORKING TEACHESSERS.

THE QUESTION IS WHY DIDN'T DEB KERR.

IT'S BECAUSE SHE'S ANTIPUBLIC EDUCATION.

IT'S BECAUSE OF HER JUDGMENT.

IT'S BECAUSE SCOTT WALKER SUPPORTS HER CAMPAIGN.

>> LET'S FACE IT.

SHE'S A FIRST-TIME CANDIDATE.

YES, THERE WAS A CHANGE IN CAMPAIGN TEAM.

YOU KNOW, UNDERLY'S HAD THE BENEFIT OF A PROFESSIONAL CAMPAIGN TEAM AND LOTS AND LOTS OF MONEY.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY ON TUESDAY, THIS IS GOING TO BE A LOW TURNOUT ELECTION AND ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN.

TYPICALLY IN A SPRING ELECTION, THE VOTING POPULATION TENDS TO BE OLDER, THEY TEND TO BE MORE WHITE AND THEY TEND TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE CONSERVATIVE.

DESPITE BEING OUT-SPENT 16-1, DEB KERR IS VERY MUCH STILL IN THIS RACE.

>> THE KINDS OF PEOPLE THAT WOULD BE MOTIVATED TO VOTE IN THIS KIND OF RACE WOULD BE SCHOOL CHOICE ADVOCATES AND TEACHERS.

SCOT, WHO DO YOU THINK HAS MORE OOMP IN THAT CROWD?

>> I THINK THE TURNOUT COULD BE LOWER THAN WE'VE HAD IN THE PAST.

I ALSO KNOW THAT TEACHERS ARE AN ACTIVE PART OF THE VOTING POPULATION, ESPECIALLY IN A DPI SPRING RACE.

IT IS AN OLDER DEMOGRAPHIC.

A LOT OF THEM GET THEIR INFORMATION FROM TWIST TELEVISION NEWS AND THAT'S BEEN SHOWING ADS AGAINST DEB.

SO I THINK EVERYBODY HAS TO DO WHAT THEY NEED TO DO TO GET ACROSS THE FINISH LINE.

MAYBE THE TURNOUT WILL BE A LITTLE BIT HIGHER, BUT I THINK IT'S WITHIN THE REALM THAT JILL UNDERLY GETS ACROSS THE FINISH LIGHTS FIRST ON ELECTION DAY.

>> WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

BILL AND SCOT, THANKS FOR JOINING US ON THIS.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> FOR MORE NEWS FROM "HERE AND NOW," YOU CAN VISIT pbswisconsin.org AND CLICK ON THE NEWS TAB.

THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.

I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.

HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND.

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