"THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL PRODUCTION.

>> REPUBLICANS STILL DOUBTING 2020 ELECTION MOST EXCITED TO VOTE IN 2020.

WITH SIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS OF COVID-19 FUNDING LEFT IN ITS COFFERS WISCONSIN SPENDS SOME OF IT ADDRESSING COURT BACKLOGS.

AND THE PERSISTENT SWELL OF THE HIGHLY CONTAGIOUS BA.2 VARIANT HAS PUBLIC HEALTH CONCERNED, AS THE GENERAL PUBLIC RESOLVES TO BE DONE WITH THE PANDEMIC.

I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.

TONIGHT ON HERE AND NOW.... MILWAUKEE COUNTY CHIEF JUDGE MARY TRIGGIANO ON THE PANDEMIC-LEGACY COURT BACKLOG.

HOW WISCONSIN ONE-TIME BORROWERS CAN NEARLY DOUBLE THEIR DEBT.

HEALTH COMMISSIONER KIRSTEN JOHNSON URGES THE PANDEMIC IS NOT OVER.

AND CHARLES FRANKLIN'S LATEST POLITICAL POLL.

IT'S HERE AND 29TH.

FUNDING FOR HERE AND NOW FRIENDS FOR PBS WISCONSIN.

>> NOW FOR APRIL VOTERS GROW MORE UNHAPPY AND PRIMARY CANDIDATES AIM TO MAKE THEIR MARK, ACCORDING THE LATEST MARQUETTE LAW SCHOOL POLL.

POLLSTER CHARLES FRANKLIN JOINS US TO OVER HIS LATEST RESULTS.

THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> GOOD TO BE HERE.

LET'S LOOK AT DEMOCRATIC U.S. SENATE.

MANDELA BARNES HAS SLIPPED SINCE YOUR LAST POLL IN FEBRUARY BY FOUR POINTS AND ALEX LASRY AND SARAH GODLEWSKI HAVE GAINED A LITTLE.

BARNES HAS NAME RECOGNITION AS LT. GOV.

BUT LASRY AND GODLEWSKI ARE ALL OVER THE AIR-WAVES WITH TV ADS.

DO YOU SUSPECT AS THE MONEY POURS IN THIS WILL BE THE TREND?

MIGHT BE EXPECTED NEARLY HALF OF THEY ARE THE TWO ON-AIR BARNES AND NELSON HAVE NOT BEEN ADVERTISING YET.

I DO THINK THIS IS A GOOD ADVERTISEMENT FOR THE POWER OF IT WASV TIEZING.

>> YOUR POLLING SHOWS NEARLY HALF WERE UNDECIDED, WHEN DO PEOPLE GET SERIOUS?

>> I THINK THAT IS ANOTHER PART.

SO MANY VOTERS SITTING OUT THERE TO BE PICKED UP BY ANYBODY.

WE SAW THIS IN 2018 WHEN WE HAD A BIG GUBERNATORIAL FIELD.

AS LATE AS JUNE A LOT UNDECIDED.

PRIMARY NOT UNTIL AUGUST 9TH.

I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED STILL HIGH IN JUNE.

REBECCA KLEEFISCH HOLDS HER LEAD...BUT YOUR POLL WENT INTO THE FIELD BEFORE TIM MICHELS ANNOUNCED HIS RUN.

IS HE GOING TO BENEFIT FROM NAME RECOGNITION FROM HIS LAST RUNS FOR OFFICE, OR IS THE ELECTORATE'S MEMORY SHORT?

>> I THINK THE MEMORY IS SHORT.

HE ENTERED THE RACE AFTER WE FINISHED OUR POLL.

OBVIOUSLY WASN'T INCLUDED.

ONE GOOD THING FIRST, WE DON'T SEE ANY SHIFT APPRECIABLY IN THE REMEMBER CAN GUBERNATORIAL FEBRUARY TILL NOW.

CHANGE OF TWO POINTS FOR BOTH TOP CANDIDATES.

WE DO HAVE ONE VIRTUE, THIS SHOWS WHERE THINGS STOOD BEFORE MICHAELS ENTERED.

IN JUNE WE'LL SEE THE IMPACT.

REPUBLICAN RACE HAS HALF UNDECIDED.

MICHAELS IN A POSITION TO TELL US WHERE HE PICKS UP UNDECIDED AND VOTES SHIFT AMONG THE ACCOUNTS.

>> THAT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE.

HEARKENING BACK TO THE 2020 ELECTION -- AS THE G-O-P IS KEEPING THAT ALIVE WITH DIRECTION FROM THE TOP AND DONALD TRUMP -- A MAJOR PARTISAN SPLIT AS ALSO MIGHT BE EXPECTED HERE.

!5-PERCENT OF REPUBLICANS ARE VERY CONFIDENT IN THE RESULTS COMPARED TO 85-PERCENT OF DEMOCRATS.

I'M SURPRISED THERE ARE 15-PERCENT OF REPUBLICAN VOTERS SURVEYED THAT ARE THAT CONFIDENT?

>> CERTAINLY THE RHETORIC IS AWFULLY STRONG.

WHEN YOU PUT CONFIDENT AND SOME WHAT CONFIDENT ON ONE HAND AND NOT TOO CONFIDENT ON THE OTHER, TWO-THIRDS CONFIDENT, ONE-THIRD NOT CONFIDENT.

IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, MIRROR IMAGE.

TWO-THIRDS CONFIDENT, ONE-THIRTY NOT CONFIDENT.

>> ANOTHER OF YOUR POLL QUESTIONS FOUND THAT NEARLY TWO-THIRDS OF REPUBLICAN RESPONDENTS HAVEN'T HEARD ENOUGH ABOUT THE MICHAEL >> WITH TWO-THIRDS OF REPUBLICANS LACK CONFIDENCE AND ALL THE ATTENTION REMEMBER CANS HAVE GIVEN TO THE GABE LMAN INVESTIGATION, STUNNING TWO-THIRDS OF REPUBLICANS AREN'T EVEN ABLE TO SAY THEY KNOW ENOUGH TO HAVE AN OPINION OF THE INVESTIGATION.

50% OF DEMOCRATS DON'T HAVE AN OPINION.

STILL MORE LACK OF ATTENTION TO THE MOST PROMINENT, CURRENT INVESTIGATION OF THE ELECTION AND THE FOLKS IN GENERAL MOST WORRIED ABOUT THE ELECTION GENERALLY AREN'T PAYING MUCH ATTENTION.

>> THERE IS SOME HIGHER AMONG THOSE MOST SKEPTICAL OF THE ELECTION.

THAT MAKES SENSE.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THE TERM "DESERT FIE" THEY MIGHT REASONABLY WANT TO DES DESERTY FIE.

AS IT HAD BEEN COVERED IN THE NEWS.

THAT TERM MAYBE JUST NOT CLEAR ENOUGH AND PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE DEFINED THE TERM IN THE CONTEXT.

>> THAT EXPLAIN AS LITTLE BIT.

HERE IS A HEADLINE, TOO.

THOSE LEAST CONFIDENT GABLEMAN EIN THE ACCURACY OF THE 2020 ARE MORE ENTHUSIASTIC TO -- >> THOSE LEAST CONFIDENT ARE LIKE 20 POINTS MORE ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT VOTING THAN REPUBLICANS WHO ARE CONFIDENT IN THE ELECTION OUTCOME.

THAT PROBABLY MEANS THE PRIMARY VOTERS ARE GOING TO BE MORE HEAVILY TILTED TO THOSE SKEPTICAL OF THE ELECTION.

YOU SEE CANDIDATES HAVING TO DEAL WITH THAT IN THEIR CAMPAIGNS.

MAYBE THOSE REPUBLICANS WHO DON'T AGREE THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN, MAY NOT BE AS ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT SUPPORTING AN ELECTION SKEPTICAL CANDIDATE WHO CARRIES THAT INTO THE NOVEMBER ELECTION THIS IS SOMETHING WORTH WATCHING ABOUT HOW THIS DIVISION WITHIN THE PARTY AND ONE-THIRD OF REPUBLICANS ARE PRETTY CONFIDENT.

DOES THAT HURT THEM IN THE FALL EVEN IF IT MEANS IN THE PRIMARY?

SKEPTICS HAVE THE UPPER HAND.

>> CHARLES, THANKS VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> NEW COVED -- COVID CASES TRIPLED AND GROWING NORTHWEST REGIONS OF THE STATE.

ALL AS MITIGATION CONTINUE TO COLLAPSE.

KRISTEN JOHNSON JOINS US.

THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> STATEWIDE CASES HAVE TRIPLED.

WHAT IS HAPPENING IN MILWAUKEE IS THIS >> WE HAVE SEEN SIGNIFICANT INCREASE.

>> HOW CONCERNING SHOULD THIS BE FOR PEOPLE MOST OF WHOM SEEMS LIKE ARE OVER THIS PANDEMIC?

>> I THINK IT WAS MOST IMPORTANT TO REALIZE COVID IS HERE WITH US, THERE ARE RISKS, YOU HAVE TO EVALUATE ALL RISKS, ALSO COMPARING TO WHAT WE EXPERIENCED IN DECEMBER AND JANUARY, IT IS NOTHING COMPARED TO WHAT WE SAW IN THE OMICRON SURGE.

>> IS THIS NEW VARIANT, DOES IT EFFECT PEOPLE, LESS SEVERELY, IS THAT WHAT IS HAPPENING?

>> THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION.

IT IS MORE CONTAGIOUS.

IT IS EARLY TO DETERMINE THE HOSPITALIZATIONS.

THEY ARE EXPERIENCING THEM IN THE STATE.

HERE WE HAVEN'T SEEN INCREASE IN HOSPITAL VAIGSS RELATED TO COVID SPECIFICALLY.

IT IS SOMETHING WE ARE WATCHING CLOSELY.

TRAJECTORY IS INCREASING.

>> WHAT ARE VACCINATION RATES LIKE RIGHT NOW IN MILWAUKEE?

>> SO WE ARE OVER 60% OF ADULTS FULLY VACCINATED IN CITY OF MILWAUKEE.

IT HAS BEEN AN EMPHASIS LOOKING FORWARD.

MOST CRITICALLY OVER THE COURSE OF THE SUMMER.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE UPTICK OF THE BOOSTERS, WHEN YOU SAY FULLY VACCINATED IS THAT THE TWO KIND OF SHOTS OR INCLUDE BOOSTERS?

>> SO FULLY VACCINATED IS JUST THE TWO.

BOOSTERS LOWER NUMBER.

UP TO DATE IS PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD BOOSTERS AND FULLY VACCINATED.

>> HOW VULNERABLE IS THE POPULATION YOU SERVE?

>> THAT IS A REALLY GOOD QUESTION.

IT IS HARD TO KNOW.

VACCINATION RATES IN NEIGHBORHOODS, THOSE ARE THE DOOR TO DOOR CAMPAIGN TO BRING BACK STATES WHERE PEOPLE ARE.

I DO THINK THERE ARE INCREASED RISKS FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT VACCINATED.

THAT VARIES AND TRYING TO ADDRESS IT.

>> YOU DESCRIBED HOW HOSPITALIZATIONS AND DEATHS ARE NOT RISING WITH THE NEW KIND OF INCREASE IN POSITIVE CASES, BUT COULD THAT BE A LAGGING KIND OF INDICATOR?

OR JUST THIS VARIANT IS JUST NOT DOING THAT AT THIS POINT?

>> HOSPITALIZATION DATA LAGS BY A FEW WEEKS.

I DON'T ANTICIPATE WE ARE GOING TO SEE, THAT WE WERE EXPERIENCING.

>> AND YET MILWAUKEE SCHOOLS MAKE MASKS MANDATORY AFTER DETERMINING A SIGNIFICANT TRANSMISSION OF THE VIRUS WITHIN THE CITY OF MILWAUKEE.

IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THERE ARE SO MANY MIXED MESSAGES, WHAT ABOUT THE NEW MASK MANDATE IN THE SCHOOLS, SOUNDS ALARMING?

>> I THINK IT IS LESS ALARMING AND MITIGATION MEASURES TO INSURE KIDS STAY IN SCHOOL.

FOR MILWAUKEE PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND MY ROLE, WHAT IS MOST IMPORTANT IS OUR CHILDREN ARE ABLE TO CONTINUE INPERSON.

I THINK USING THE MASKS IS CRITICAL TO MAKE SURE THAT CONTINUES TO HAPPEN.

WE KNOW COVID IS HERE AND SPREADING AND MASKS WORK.

IT IS A GREAT MITIGATION TOOL.

OUR KIDS CAN STAY IN SCHOOL.

>> IS THERE MORE THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE OR AT WE AT THIS POINT WE ARE LIVING WITH IT?

>> I THINK WE ARE LIVING WITH IT.

I THINK THE MESSAGE IS WE KNOW HOW.

WE HAVE LEARNED A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS.

IF YOU ARE AT HIGHER RISK, BE MORE CAUTIOUS.

PEOPLE KNOW THEIR LEVEL OF RISK.

WE KNOW THERE ARE CHILDREN THAT HAVEN'T BEEN ELIGIBLE FOR VACCINE AND COMING OVER THE SUMMER: I THINK IT IS IDENTIFYING YOUR LEVEL OF RISK AS AN INDIVIDUAL, FOR YOUR FAMILY AND MEASURING THAT AGAINST THE ACTIVITIES AND KNOWING THERE ARE MITIGATIONS.

WE CAN PUT OUT A MASK.

WE CAN SOCIALLY DISTANT.

WE CAN TEST BEFORE WE GATHER WITH FRIENDS AND FAMILY.

WE HAVE TOOLS WE DIDN'T HAVE PREVIOUSLY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

KRISTEN JOHNSON, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> THE PANDEMIC CREATED A BACKLOG OF CRIMINAL COURT CASES ACROSS THE STATE BIGGEST CRIMES IN MILWAUKEE COUNTY COURT.

ACCORDING TO COURT RECORDS, STATE SITS AT A FELONY CASE BAG LOG, 17,000 CASESES AS OF THIS WEEK, MILWAUKEE HAS 1600.

CHIEF JUDGE MARY TRIGGIANO IS GETTING A BOOST FROM 14.5 MILLION DOLLARS AND 50 MILLION STATEWIDE GOING TO POLICE AND COURTHOUSES.

JUDGE, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

>> HAPPY TO JOIN YOU.

>> HOW BAD IS IT?

SO, WE HAVE BEEN WORKING REALLY, REALLY HARD TO MAKE SURE OUR BACKLOG WASN'T AS BAD AS SOME PLACES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

WE KNEW IN THE EARLY PART OF THE PANDEMIC.

BEGINNING PHASE, MARCH, APRIL, MAY WE NEEDED TO COME BACK AS QUICKLY, AS E EFFICIENTEDLY AS WE COULD SO OUR BACKLOG WOULDN'T EXPAND MORE THAN IT IS TODAY.

WE WORKED REALLY HARD IN THE BEGINNING EVEN STARTING JURY TRIALS, SUMMER 2020.

NO ONE ACROSS THE STATE OR COUNTRY WAS DOING IT.

WE DID THAT BECAUSE WE KNEW THAT A BACKLOG COULD HAVE CONSEQUENCES.

AND SO I THINK WE ARE BACKLOG IS GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

IT IS GOING DOWN.

WE REALLY NEED THAT EXTRA PUSH, THAT EXTRA UMPH TO ADDRESS THIS IN RECORD TIME.

>> DESCRIBE HOW THE PANDEMIC CONTRIBUTED TO THE BACKLOG.

>> FELONY DIVISION HAS SERIOUS CASES.

UM, WHAT A JUDGE WANTS TO DO IS MAKE SURE THEY ARE DISPOSING OF ENOUGH CASES SO THAT WHEN THEY GET OTHERS IN, KEEPING A BALANCE, RIGHT?

WHATEVER GOES OUT COMES IN.

HAVING THE SAME AMOUNT OF CASES OR TRYING TO REDUCE THAT.

WHEN THE PANDEMIC HIT AND WE SHUT DOWN, CASES STARTED TO GO UP.

EACH JUDGE AS ONE-THIRD TO 50% MORE CASES ON THEIR CALENDAR THAN THEY DID BEFORE.

THAT CREATES REALLY, PROBLEMS IN TRYING TO RESOLVE AND DISPOSE OF CASES OUT THE DOOR.

YOU HAVE THE CRUSH OF CASES CONSTANTLY ON THE CALENDAR.

>> WHEN YOU HAVE SHORTAGE OF EMPLOYEES THAT STAFF COURT CASES IS THAT RIGHT?

>> EVERY STAKEHOLDER IS EXPERIENCING A LABOR SHORTAGE.

NOT UNLIKE THE HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY AND OTHER INDUSTRIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

WHICH MAKES IT PROBLEMATIC GETTING AT THE BACKLOG WHEN YOU NEED TO RESOLVE MORE CASES YOU NEED MORE PEOPLE.

WE DON'T HAVE THAT.

WE ARE WORKING TO BUILD CAPACITY TO INSURE WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO GET THAT BACKLOG DONE IN RECORD TIME.

>> WHAT ARE THE EFFECTS OF THESE BACKLOGS ON DEFENDANTS, VICTIMS AND COMMUNITY SAFETY?

>> SURE BACKLOG UNTENABLE AND UNINTENDED AND INTENDED CONSEQUENCES.

YOU HAVE DEFENDANTS MIGHT BE WAITING IN CUSTODY FOR LENGTHY PERIODS OF TIME TO HAVE A JUDGE COME IN FOR A TRIAL.

VICTIMS WAITING FOR THEIR DAY IN COURT TO RESOLVE A CASE AND WAIT TO SEE THAT HAPPEN.

THAT CAN CAUSE ITS OWN STRESS AND TRAUMA.

DELAY OF JUSTICE.

IT HAS A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON EVERYONE IN THE SYSTEM.

>> HOW WILL YOU USE 14 MILLION DOLLARS PLUS TO KIND OF RESOLVE THE BACKLOG?

>> OUR INTENTIONS ARE SEVERAL FOLD, RIGHT.

WE BELIEVE BASED ON DATA, NUMBER OF CASES WE CAN RESOLVE IN A YEAR AND A HALF, WE NEED FIVE ADDITIONAL COURTS.

WE ARE LOOKING TO SET UP THREE FELONY COURTS ONE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND ONE MISDEMEANOR COURT TO ADDRESS THE BACKLOG IN THOSE DIVISIONS.

WE HAVE TO CREATE FIVE COURTS.

WE HAVE TO HAVE ENOUGH STAFF TO BE ABLE TO CONDUCT ANY KIND OF HEARING OR TRIAL TO RESOLVE CASES AND REDUCE THE BACKLOG.

ALSO LOOKING AT POTENTIAL PILOT DOING SOME OF OUR CASES IN THE EVENING HOURS TO TRY TO REDUCE MISDEMEANOR BACKLOG.

>> SO A NIGHT COURT AND HIRING BLITZ, I WOULD THINK IF YOU ARE ALREADY KIND OF DOWN EMPLOYEES.

NOW YOU HAVE TO STAFF FIVE NEW COURTS.

>> IT IS A HIRING BLITSZ.

MOST OF THE AGENCIES THAT WORK IN THE COURTS HAVE BEEN TRYING TO HIRE.

THIS ADDITIONAL MONEY THIS WILL ALLOW TO CREATE PROJECTS, SOMEONE MIGHT WANT TO HANDLE CASES OR SHIFTING BODIES IN DIFFERENT AREAS TO BE ABLE TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE ENOUGH CAPACITY TO DO THESE CASES.

>> IN THE COURTHOUSE, HOW WELCOME ARE THESE COVID-19 RELIEF FUNDS AND NEW COURT?

>> THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION.

PROVIDES SOME LEVEL OF HOPE.

EVERYONE KNOWS WE WANT TO PROVIDE FAIR, EQUITABLE AND TIMELY JUSTICE.

BAG LOG -- BACKLOG IS WEIGHING HEAVY ON EVERYONE.

PROSECUTORS, PUBLIC DEFENDERS, COURT REPORTERS, ALL PITCHING IN TO HELP MOVE CASES AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

HAVING THIS INVESTMENT GIVES US OPPORTUNITY TO RESTORE SOME EQUILIBRIUM TO OUR COURT SYSTEM SO THAT WE CAN ADVANCE JUSTICE AT A PACE THAT IS REASONABLE.

>> JUDGE, THANKS VERY MUCH.

>> SURE, THANK YOU, APPRECIATE IT.

>> IN OTHER NEWS WHEN SOMEONE NEEDS A QUICK SHORT-TERM LOAN, THEY CAN TURN TO PAYDAY LENDERS.

WISCONSIN BORROWERS END UP PAYING MORE ON THE BACK END BECAUSE OF HIGH INTEREST RATES AND FEES.

ACCORDING TO NEW POLICY BRIEF.

WHERE SHOULD YOU TURN IF YOU NEED QUICK CASH?

MELANIE, PROFESSOR JOINS US, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

I WANT TO SET THE TABLE, PEW FOUND WISCONSINITES PAY AN AVERAGE OF 395 FEES WHEN REPAYING 500 LOANS OVER THE COURSE OF FOUR MONTHS AN INTEREST RATE OF 338%.

WISCONSIN DOESN'T CAP THOSE RATES.

A PERSON WOULD HAVE TO BE DESPERATE.

IS THAT WHO IS BORROWING?

>> IN TERMS OF CONSUMER BASE FOR PA LOANS, THEY ARE GENERALLY MORE CREDIT CONSTRAINED ON AVERAGE.

RESEARCH HAS SHOWN CONSUMERS TURN TO PAYDAY LOANS AFTER EXPLORING OTHER CREDIT OPTIONS INCLUDING PLAUSIBLE, AVAILABLE FUN FUNDS.

THERE IS A CREDIT CONSTRAINT ELEMENT AS WELL AS YOU KNOW, PAYDAY LOAN CONSUMERS TEND TO BE LOWER INCOME ON AVERAGE.

BOTH INCOME AND CREDIT CONSTRAINTS PLAY A ROLE.

>> SO IF A PERSON IS CASH STRAPPED IN THIS WAY, HOW DO THEY PAY THESE PAYDAY LOANS BACK?

>> AND SO, ON PRINCIPLE, PAYDAY LOANS ARE DESIGNED TO BE SHORT TE TERM.

SO SOMETHING THAT ONE WOULD RELY ON IN BETWEEN PAY PERIODS AND THIS IS ALSO CHARACTERIZED AND TEND TO BE SMALL LOANS.

IT IS AVAILABLE FOR A FEW HUNDRED DOLLARS AS OPPOSED TO SAY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS THAT ONE MAY USE A PERSONAL LOAN FOR AT A BANK OR CREDIT UNION.

AND SO GIVEN THE SMALL DOLLAR AMOUNTS, WE WOULD LIKE TO BELIEVE ONE WOULD BE ABLE TO REPAY THOSE IN A ONE OR TWO-WEEK TIME FRAME.

AND AND OTHER THINGS LIKE RESULTS UNABLE TO PAY THE LOAN.

>> YOU DESCRIBE ROLLING OVER THE LOAN, I AM ASSUMING IF THAT HAPPENS AND PEOPLE UNABLE TO PAY FEES JUST KIND OF KEEP ACCRUING THERE?

>> RIGHT, SO THERE IS THAT CAPITALIZATION ELEMENT.

SO IF YOU ARE ROLLING OVER A PAYDAY LOAN, YOU ARE EFFECTIVELY BORROWING NOT ONLY FOR THAT INITIAL PRINCIPLE, BUT ALSO THE INTEREST IN FEES CHARGED THAT WERE ACCRUED FROM THAT INITIAL BORROWING OF THE LOAN.

>> TWO QUESTIONS, ARE THESE LOANS PREDATORY OR A PLACE FOR PAYDAY LOANS?

>> SO THAT IS A MAJOR DEBATE OCCURRING RIGHT NOW.

SO WE DON'T FULLY KNOW WHAT THE WELFARE IMPLICATIONS OF THESE LOANS ARE AT THIS TIME.

AND SO WHEN IT COMES TO EVEN SUBSTITUTION FOR EXAMPLE, PLENTY OF PAPERS SHOW THAT AN EVENT THAT PAYDAY LOAN, HIGHEST OCCURS, SOME CONSUMERS MAY TURN TO OTHER LOANS, AS WELL AS EVEN RESORT TO BANK OVERDRAFTS.

AND DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH ONE MAY OVERDRAFT FROM A BANK ACCOUNT, THAT COULD PROVE MORE EXPENSIVE IN BORROWING A PAYDAY LOAN.

SO MUCH OF IT TENDS TO BE CIRCUMSTANTIAL.

>> YEAH.

QUICKLY WITH HALF MINUTE LEFT, YOU KNOW WISCONSIN LEGISLATURE A YEAR AGO TRIED TO PASS 36% CAP ON PAYDAY INTEREST RATES.

THAT DID NOT PASS.

IS THAT THE RIGHT MOVE IN YOUR MIND?

>> SO THE 36% CAP IS CERTAINLY THE MOST COMMON FORM OF PAYDAY LOAN WE SEE GIVEN THAT NUMBER HAS SHOWN TO BE IN UNPROFITABLE RATES FOR LOANS TO OPERATE.

ANOTHER OPTION COULD BE MIM MIMICKING THE MODELS, HAWAII, COLORADO, VIRGINIA HAVE IMPLEMENTED CONCERTING SINGLE USE PAYDAY LOANS INTO THE LOWER COST INSTALLMENTS THAT CONSUMERS CAN USE INSURING THEY CAN GET THE SMALL DOLLAR LOAN AS WELL AS HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO PAY THEM BACK AT AN AFFORDABLE RATE.

>> OKAY.

PROFESSOR HARVEY, THANK YOU FOR YOUR INFORMATION ON THIS.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

VOTE IN 2022.

WHAT'S THEFOR MORE ON THIS AND OTHER ISSUES FACING WISCONSIN, VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT P-B-S WISCONSIN DOT ORG AND THEN CLICK ON THE NEWS TAB.

[ FRED ON CAM ] THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.

I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.

HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND FOR MORE INFORMATION WWW.PBSWISCONSIN.ORG/NEWS ♪