>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL PRODUCTION.

>> NEW CENSUS DATA BEGINS THE EVERY-TEN-YEAR MAPPING PROCESS.

LOCAL OFFICIALS FIND THEMSELVES IN A RACE AGAINST THE CLOCK TO DO THE WORK.

AND FORT MCCOY WILL BE A LANDING PLACE FOR AFGHAN REFUGEES WHO WILL BEGIN AGAIN IN WISCONSIN.

GOOD EVENING.

I'M ZAC SCHULTZ.

TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW," THE RUSH IS ON TO PRODUCE NEW REDISTRICTING VOTING MAPS.

REFUGEES WILL ARRIVE IN WISCONSIN.

WE'LL TALK TO A SETTLEMENT SPECIALIST AND SETTLEMENT.

AND MARK POCAN AND MIKE GALLAGHER GIVE THEIR PERSPECTIVE.

>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS WISCONSIN.

>> WHOMEVER DRAWS THE POLITICAL MAPS WILL DETERMINE WHICH PARTY HOLDS THE POWER IN WISCONSIN.

THE BATTLE OVER REDISTRICTING STARTED YEARS OVER AND THE LATEST CENSUS DATA IS FINALLY HERE AND SO ARE THE LAWSUITS.

JOINING US NOW IS UW PROFESSOR ROBERT YABLON.

>> GLAD TO BE WITH YOU.

>> LATE LAST YEAR REPUBLICANS ASKED THE WISCONSIN SUPREME COURT TO CREATE A RULE GIVING THE STATE COURT CONTROL OVER ANY LAWSUITS RELATED TO REDISTRICTING.

LAST WEEK, THE CENSUS DATA COMES OUT AND IMMEDIATELY THE DEMOCRATS FILED A LAWSUIT IN FEDERAL COURT.

WHY DID EACH PARTY PICK THEIR FAVORITE COURT HERE?

>> YOU KNOW, THESE ARE STRATEGIC CALCULATIONS THAT EACH SIDE MAKE.

THE REPUBLICANS LOOK TO THE COMPOSITION OF THE WISCONSIN SUPREME COURT AND FELT IT WOULD LEAN A BIT IN THEIR DIRECTION.

THE DEMOCRATS MAY HAVE THOUGHT THAT THEY WERE LIKELY TO GET A FAIRER SHAKE IN FEDERAL COURT.

THESE ARE IMPERFECT JUDGMENTS.

WHO KNOWS REALLY WHERE YOU'D RATHER BE BUT EACH SIDE HAS MADE THAT APPARENT CHOICE.

>> YOU'VE CLERKED FOR TWO SUPREME COURT JUSTICES IN RUTH BADER GINSBERG AND SONYA SOTAMAYOR.

WHAT DOES THEIR DECISION MEAN FOR THE WHOLE PROCESS GOING FORWARD FROM THE FEDERAL COURT'S PERSPECTIVE?

>> SO THE CASE FROM WISCONSIN THAT THE SUPREME COURT HEARD ULTIMATELY WAS RESOLVED WITH THE U.S. SUPREME COURT SAYING IT WAS NOT GOING TO TAKE AN ACTIVE ROLE IN REINING IN GERRYMANDERING, THEY SHOULD BE RESOLVED THROUGH THE POLITICAL PROCESS.

WHAT YOU'RE GETTING NOW IS A DIFFERENT SORT OF CLAIM SO AFTER A CENSUS WE LEARNED THAT POPULATIONS SHIFT.

THERE ARE SOME PLACES IN WISCONSIN THAT HAVE TOO MANY PEOPLE, OTHERS THAT HAVE TOO FEW AND A MAP NEEDS TO BE DRAWN.

IN THE FIRST INSTANCE, THAT TASK FALLS TO THE LEGISLATURE AND GOVERNOR.

IF THEY FAIL TO DO IT, SOMEONE NEEDS TO DRAW A NEW MAP.

SO EVEN IF FEDERAL COURTS ARE NOT MONITORING PARTISAN GERRYMANDERNG, THEY STILL HAVE THIS JOB AND THAT'S WHAT THE LAWSUITS BEING FILED NOW ARE ALL ABOUT.

>> IN THE PAST, GERRYMANDERED MAPS HAVE BEEN OVERTURNED FOR REASONS OTHER THAN RACIAL MINORITY MAKEUP, WITH PENNSYLVANIA AND NORTH CAROLINA HAVING TO REDRAW MAPS.

I'VE SEEN ANALYSIS THAT SAYS GILL VERSUS WHITFORD MEANS THE COURTS MAY BE LESS LIKELY TO STEP IN ON AN APPEAL OF A MAP.

DO YOU AGREE?

>> IT'S HARD TO SAY IF THE U.S. SUPREME COURT WILL ULTIMATELY GET INVOLVED.

THESE ARE CASES ACTUALLY THAT YOU ARE ALLOWED TO APPEAL DIRECTLY FROM DISTRICT COURT TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT.

THERE IS NO INTERMEDIATE COURT.

THAT MAKES IT MORE LIKELY THAT THE SUPREME COURT GETS INVOLVED.

WHETHER THE COURT ACTUALLY STEPS IN IS GOING TO DEPEND ON THE SPECIFIC ISSUES THAT ARE RAISED AND HOW THE LOWER COURT RESOLVES IT.

>> NOW, IN WISCONSIN REPUBLICANS IN THE LEGISLATURE WILL DRAW THEIR OWN MAPS AND GOVERNOR EVERS WILL LIKELY VETO THEM.

GOVERNOR EVERS HAS SET UP HIS FAIR MAPS COMMISSION.

THEY'LL INTRODUCE A MAP THAT WILL HAVE NO LEGAL AUTHORITY WHATSOEVER.

DO YOU THINK A COURT WILL PICK BETWEEN THEM OR DRAW THEIR OWN VERSION OR WORK FROM ONE OF THEM?

HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?

>> IT COULD BE ALL OF THE ABOVE.

IT'S CLEAR THAT THE FEDERAL COURT WILL HAVE BEFORE IT WHATEVER MAP THE LEGISLATURE PRODUCES, WHATEVER MAP THE COMMISSION COMES OUT WITH AND IT'S A NEAR CERTAINTY THAT THERE WILL BE OTHER ACTORS WHO JOIN AS INTERVENEORS.

THE COURT WILL HAVE ALL OF THOSE AT ITS DISPOSAL.

OFTENTIMES THE COURT WILL HIRE ITS OWN EXPERT WHO IT WILL GIVE GUIDANCE TO AND THAT EXPERT MIGHT CREATE A WHOLE SEPARATE MAP THAT'S MEANT TO BE ALL THE COURTS AND YOU'LL HAVE SUBSTANTIAL BACK-AND-FORTH ABOUT ALL THESE OPTIONS.

>> DO YOU THINK IT'S POSSIBLE FOR SOMEONE TO DRAW A MAP THAT MOST PEOPLE WILL AGREE IT'S FAIR OR WILL IT ALWAYS END UP WITH WHO ENDS UP WITH THE PARTISAN ADVANTAGE?

>> THERE IS PROBABLY NO SUCH THING AS AN IDEAL DISTRICT MAP EVERYONE WILL AGREE IS THE BEST ONE.

IT'S PRETTY CLEAR SOME MAPS WILL BE BETTER THAN OTHERS.

YOU WILL HAVE SOME MAPS THAT MORE PEOPLE AGREE DO A BETTER JOB WITH CRITERIA THAT WE CARE ABOUT.

AND THOSE ARE TRADITIONAL REDISTRICTING CRITERIA, THINGS LIKE KEEPING COMMUNITIES TOGETHER RATHER THAN DIVIDING POLITICAL SUBDIVISIONS OR NEIGHBORHOODS.

HAVING DISTRICTS THAT ARE MORE COMPACT, DISTRICTS THAT TRY TO BE MORE COMPETITIVE.

WE KNOW THAT THESE ARE THINGS THAT REDISTRICTING PLANS OUGHT TO ACCOMPLISH.

YOU CAN BALANCE BETWEEN THOSE FACTORS.

BUT WHEN PARTISANSHIP DRIVES THE PROCESS AS IT HAS IN WISCONSIN, YOU'RE LIKELY TO GET A MAP THAT'S NOT IN GOING TO FAREWELL WITH OTHER CRITERIA THAT WE THINK ABOUT.

>> WE HAVE JUST A FEW SECONDS LEFT.

GIVE ME YOUR IMPRESSION OF THE TIME LINE.

ARE WE LOOKING AT NEXT APRIL WHEN CANDIDATES HAVE TO START FILING PAPERS BEFORE THIS IS RESOLVED OR COULD IT BE BEFORE THEN?

>> IT COULD BE A BIT SOONER THAN THEN.

APRIL WOULD BE THE VERY END ONCE CANDIDATES HAVE TO START FILING PAPERS.

THEY NEED TO KNOW WHAT DISTRICTS THEY'RE GOING TO RUN IN.

BUT THIS WILL TAKE SOME TIME TO PLAY OUT.

THIS IS COMPLICATED.

IT'S GOING TO BE A WHIRLWIND FOR THE COURTS.

I IMAGINE THEY MIGHT TARGET SOMETHING LIKE MARCH AS A TIME WHEN THEY WOULD LIKE TO GET THIS FINALLY RESOLVED.

>> ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME TODAY.

>> GLAD TO BE WITH YOU.

>> WHILE ALL THE FOCUS ON REDISTRICTING IS ON STATE AND CONGRESSIONAL MAPS THERE IS AN IMPORTANT STEP THAT HAS TO HAPPEN FIRST.

VILLAGES AND CITIES HAVE TO REDISTRICT THEIR OWN MAPS.

>> MOST OF OUR GROWTH OCCURRED WITHIN THE CITY OF MENOMINEE.

>> THE DUNN COUNTY CLERK WAS APPOINTED A FEW MONTHS AGO.

HE'S APPROACHING THE ONCE IN A DECADE TASK OF REDISTRICTING WITH A GOOD ATTITUDE.

>> I'M ENERGIZED BY THE PROCESS.

I LOVE DATA.

I LOVE MAPS.

>> THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS FOR LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES HAS BEEN SHRUNK TO AROUND 90 DAYS.

>> WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT NOBODY WILL LOSE OUT BUT WE'RE DOING THE BEST WE CAN.

>> AS WITH JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING, THE BLAME LIES WITH THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC, WHICH DELAYED THE CENSUS COLLECTION LAST YEAR AND MEANT CENSUS DATA CLERKS WERE EXPECTING IN APRIL JUST CAME OUT LAST WEEK.

>> THE ONE HARD NUMBER WE HAVE TO COMPLY WITH IS NOVEMBER 23.

>> KURT WITYNSKI IS WITH THE LEAGUE OF MUNICIPALITIES WHICH REPRESENTS CITIES, TOWNS AND VILLAGES.

HE SAYS LOCAL REDISTRICTING NEEDS TO BE DONE BY THE END OF NOVEMBER SO CANDIDATES FOR THE SPRING ELECTIONS KNOW WHICH DISTRICT THEY'RE RUNNING IN.

A BILL WAS PASSED THAT WOULD HAVE DELAYED REDISTRICTING FOR A YEAR TO GIVE THEM MORE TIME, BUT GOVERNOR EVERS VETOED THE BILL SAYING IT WASN'T PROPER TO RUN SPRING ELECTIONS ON OUTDATED MAPS.

>> WE WERE UNABLE TO STAY BELOW THE PARTISAN RADAR OR THE LENS THROUGH WHICH EVERYONE APPROACHES REDISTRICTING.

WHEN YOU USE THE WORD REDISTRICTING, ALARM BELLS GO OFF.

IN MANY CASES JUSTIFIABLY SO.

>> TEN YEARS AGO, REPUBLICANS IN THE LEGISLATURE CREATED MAPS FOR STATE ASSEMBLY, STAT AND CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS IN SECRECY.

THEY MADE THEIR MEMBERS SIGNED SECRECY AGREEMENTS AND PASSED THEM.

THAT MEANT LOCAL LINES WERE DRAWN AFTERWARDS AND HAD TO FIT THE STATE LINES ALREADY IN PLACE.

THAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED AGAIN IF NOT FOR THE VETO.

>> THE ORDER WAS MIEW IN MY OPI-- MIEW INMY OP MANIPULATED IN 2010.

>> WE SEE A LOT OF MUNICIPALITIES ESPECIALLY THROUGHOUT THE STATE THAT HAVE VERY STRANGE ELECTORAL WARDS.

>> DUNN COUNTY IS SPLIT BETWEEN FOUR ASSEMBLY SEATS.

IT MAKES FOR SOME WEIRD LOCAL DISTRICTS.

HE HOPES LETTING THE LOCALS DRAW THEIR LINES FIRST WILL CREATE A BETTER PROCESS EVEN IF THERE'S NOT MUCH TIME FOR PUBLIC INPUT.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT IS FEEDBACK FROM INDIVIDUALS WHO LIVE WITHIN THE MUNICIPALITIES AND THE COUNTY.

>> I THINK THERE WILL BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE.

EVERYONE IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE ON THEIR TOES MOVING MUCH FASTER THAN USUAL.

>> UNDER THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS, COUNTIES DRAW THEIR SUPERVISORY DISTRICTS AND THEN LOCAL WARDS, HOPEFULLY WATCHING UP WITH COUNTY LINES.

NORMALLY THAT TAKES FOUR MONTHS.

>> WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE OUR 60-DAY WINDOWS.

>> RANDY SCHOLZ' TEAM HAS A DIFFERENT CONCERN.

THE COUNTY BOARD IS CONSIDERING EXPANDING.

>> IF IT GOES TO 21, IT WILL BE DRAMATIC CHANGES.

IF IT STAYS AT 15, NOT A WHOLE LOT.

>> EVEN WITH THE TIGHTENED TIME FRAME AND EXPANDED BOARD, SCHOLZ SAYS THEY'LL BE READY.

>> PEOPLE ARE CONFUSED ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE GOVERNOR AND VETO.

I WANT TO LET PEOPLE KNOW AS FAR AS CHIPPEWA COUNTY GOES, WE'RE GOING TO GET IT DONE AND SPEND THE TIME WE NEED TO TO GET IT RIGHT.

>> WISCONSIN ATTORNEY GENERAL JOSH KAUL ANNOUNCED THIS WEEK HE HAS FILED A LAWSUIT SEEKING TO REMOVE THE CHAIR OF THE NATIONAL RESOURCES BOARD.

FRED PREHN WAS APPOINTED BY SCOTT WALKER.

HIS TERM EXPIRED IN MAY BUT HE REFUSED TO SIT DOWN.

REPUBLICANS IN THE SENATE HAVE REFUSED TO SCHEDULE A HEARING ON GOVERNOR EVERS' NOMINEE, WHICH GIVES PREHN THE CHANCE TO STAY ON THE BOARD AND RETAINS REPUBLICAN CONTROL OF THE BOARD.

A SECOND WALKER EMPLOYEE WHOSE TERM EXPIRED IN MAY DID STEP DOWN.

THE ISSUE CAME TO A HEAD IN THE LAST MEETING WHEN CONSERVATIVES AUTHORIZED A WOLF HUNT WITH THE NUMBER DOUBLE WHAT DNR OFFICIALS RECOMMENDED.

WE HAVE ASKED THEM TO TALK ABOUT THEIR DECISIONS BUT THEY'VE DECLINED OUR INTERVIEW REQUESTS.

HOWEVER, REPUBLICAN LEGISLATIVE LEADERS ARE PLANNING TO HIRE OUTSIDE LAWYERS TO INTERVENE IN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S LAWSUIT.

NEXT WEEK, THE U.S. HOUSE IS EXPECTED TO VOTE ON THE $1 TRILLION INFRASTRUCTURE BAND.

THE COMPROMISE BETWEEN DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS.

DEMOCRATS ARE LOOKING FOR A SEPARATE PLAN THAT'S MUCH LARGER AND CAN PASS WITHOUT REPUBLICAN SUPPORT.

TWO WISCONSIN CONGRESSMEN ARE LOOKING AT THE BILLS AS ONE, BUT WITH DIFFERENT RESULTS.

>> I THINK THE BIGGEST CONCERN FOR MANY OF US IS WE DON'T WANT TO JUST DO THAT PARED-DOWN INFRASTRUCTURE BILL WITHOUT THE PROMISE WE'VE HAD ALL ALONG, A $3.5 TRILLION RECONCILIATION BILL.

>> RIGHT NOW WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT'S COMING TO THE FLOOR NEXT WEEK AND PELOSI IS TRYING TO SEQUENCE ONE OR THE OTHER.

AND I THINK IT'S A MISTAKE TO THINK OF THEM AS TWO BILLS.

IT'S ALL ONE GIGANTIC BILL THAT MASSIVELY INCREASES FEDERAL SPENDING.

>> THEY WILL NOT PASS EITHER BILL BUT SET AN AGENDA WITH DETAILS TO BE HASHED OUT IN SEPTEMBER.

FORT MCCOY WILL RECEIVE REFUGEES FROM AFGHANISTAN.

THIS WILL MARK MORE THAN 40 YEARS SINCE IT HOUSED CUBAN REFUGEES.

TONY EVERS REACTED TO THE NEWS.

>> I GUESS I AM SYMPATHETIC TO THE IDEA THAT IF YOU FOUGHT WITH US, YOU SHOULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR THE SIV PROGRAM.

BUT I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD RELAX THE VETTING STANDARDS FOR THAT PROGRAM.

SO AS WE MAKE SURE PEOPLE ARE ELIGIBLE FOR THAT PROGRAM, WE ALSO NEED TO BE WORKING WITH COUNTRIES IN THE REGION WHO CAN TAKE THE BROADER POPULATION OF REFUGEES THAT WE'RE NOT EQUIPPED TO HANDLE RIGHT NOW.

>> WE HAVE OPEN ARMS HERE IN WISCONSIN.

I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT ALL OF THEM THAT COME HERE ARE GOING TO END UP IN WISCONSIN.

BUT WE HAVE A WONDERFUL GROUP OF ORGANIZATIONS, LUTHERAN SOCIAL SERVICES, JEWISH SOCIAL SERVICES THAT WILL BE NATIONAL IN SCOPE THAT WILL BE HELPING TO PLACE THESE PEOPLE.

>> FORT MCCOY COULD RECEIVE ANYWHERE FROM HUN D HUNDREDS TOW THOUSAND REFUGEES.

ON NOON WEDNESDAY MARISA WOJCIK SPOKE WITH DAWN BERNEY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF JEWISH SOCIAL SERVICES OF MADISON THAT HANDLES REFUGEE RESETTLEMENT.

THIS PROCESS IS HAPPENING MUCH FASTER THAN NORMAL.

>> WE HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT WE HAVE 24 HOURS TO AGREE TO TAKE ON A CASE, INCLUDING WEEKENDS.

AND THAT'S VERY DIFFERENT FOR US.

USUALLY WE HAVE A WEEK OR EVEN LONGER TO MAKE THAT DECISION AND THEN ONCE WE'VE AGREED TO TAKE A CASE, WE'VE BEEN TOLD WE COULD POTENTIALLY EXPECT SOMEONE IN AS SOON AS 24 TO 48 HOURS.

IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.

THERE SEEMS TO BE A BOTTLENECK.

THE PEOPLE COMING INTO FORT LEE CURRENTLY IN VIRGINIA, IT'S BEEN A VERY SLOW PROCESS AND THAT IS WHY THEY ARE OPENING UP THESE NEW PLACES TO BE ABLE TO HELP BRING PEOPLE TO SPEED UP THE PROCESS.

I THINK ONCE THEY GET SOME OF THESE KINKS FIGURED OUT, IT WILL HAPPEN RATHER QUICKLY.

IN A STATEMENT FROM THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE THAT SAID THAT THESE NEW PLACES LIKE FORT MCCOY WILL BE STARTING TO RECEIVE REFUGEES IN SOMEWHERE BETWEEN TWO TO FOUR WEEKS.

SO I'M HOPING THAT BETWEEN NOW AND THEN WE WILL HAVE SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, BUT I STRONGLY SUSPECT THAT THE PROCESSING HAS TO HAPPEN BEFORE ANYONE DECIDES WHO'S GOING WHERE.

TYPICALLY, THERE IS A LONG SCREENING PROCESS THAT HAPPENS OVERSEAS AND SOMEWHERE BETWEEN SIX TO SEVEN FEDERAL AGENCIES ARE INVOLVED IN SCREENING REFUGEES.

THE PROCESS BECAUSE OF THIS CRISIS SITUATION, A LOT OF THAT WORK IS NOW GOING TO BE HAPPENING HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND SO WE DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW LONG PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE AT FORT MCCOY BEFORE THEY ARE ALLOWED TO RESETTLE INTO THEIR NEW HOMES.

>> AND SO BASED ON HOW QUICKLY THIS IS HAPPENING AND THE LARGE SCALE, HOW DIFFERENT IS THIS FROM ANY OTHER RESETTLEMENTS THAT YOUR AGENCY HAS HELPED WITH?

>> THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT BECAUSE WE EXPECT POTENTIALLY TO BE ASKED TO RESETTLE A LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE AT THE SAME TIME.

WE GENERALLY ONLY RESETTLE HISTORICALLY ABOUT ONE FAMILY PER MONTH.

SO WE ARE NOW TALKING ABOUT CONSIDERABLY MORE.

WE MAY BE SEEING TWO OR THREE FAMILIES IN A WEEK.

AND THAT WOULD BE A BIG CHANGE FOR US.

>> SO CAN YOU DESCRIBE JUST THE RESETTLEMENT PROCESS?

WHAT HAPPENS ONCE A PERSON OR A FAMILY IS RESETTLED HERE AND WHAT KIND OF FUNDING AND SUPPORT IS AVAILABLE FOR THESE EFFORTS?

>> SO WHEN A PERSON COMES TO THE UNITED STATES, WE ARE GIVEN, ON AVERAGE, ABOUT $1,000 PER PERSON TOTAL THAT CAN BE USED FOR THE EXPENSES OF THE FAMILY.

SO OUR AGENCY DOES A LOT OF FUND-RAISING TO HELP WITH -- BECAUSE THAT IS JUST NOT ENOUGH MONEY.

AND OUR RESPONSIBILITY IS TO FIND AN APPROPRIATE PLACE TO LIVE.

FOR US, IT NEEDS TO BE ON A BUS LINE.

AND WE ARE REQUIRED TO FULLY FURNISH AND PROVIDE HOUSEHOLD GOODS FOR THE HOME.

WE ARE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE A PANTRY AND A REFRIGERATOR FULL OF FOOD FOR ABOUT A WEEK, A CULTURALLY APPROPRIATE MEAL, AND THEN WE GO AND COLLECT THE INDIVIDUAL OR FAMILIES FROM THE AIRPORT.

AND ONCE THEY COME INTO THEIR NEW HOME, THEN WE WORK WITH THEM, PARTICULARLY FOR THE FIRST THREE MONTHS, TO MAKE SURE THEY GO FOR THEIR MEDICAL SCREENINGS TO HELP THEM GET THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY CARD, TO ENROLL CHILDREN IN SCHOOL, TO ENROLL PARENTS IN ESL IF THEY NEED THAT, TO HELP WITH EMPLOYMENT.

SO ALL OF THE THINGS THAT THEY NEED SO THAT HOPEFULLY AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE THEY WILL BE COMPLETELY SELF-SUFFICIENT.

>> YOU CAN SEE THE COMPLETE INTERVIEW WITH DAWN BERNEY BY GOING TO pbswisconsin.org AND CLICKING ON THE NEWS PAGE.

EVENTUALLY THOSE AFGHANS WILL BE SETTLED AND WILL HAVE TO ADJUST TO THEIR NEW LIVES.

FOR MORE ON WHAT THEY CAN EXPECT WE TURN TO PAUL VAN AUKEN WHO HAS WORKED EXTENSIVELY ON THIS ISSUE.

THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

I WISH IT WAS UNDER BETTER CIRCUMSTANCES, THOUGH.

>> LET'S START FIRST WITH THE WORDS WE'RE USING.

THESE PEOPLE FLEEING AFGHANISTAN ARE REFUGEES, BUT ONCE THEY'RE SETTLED YOU PREFER TO CALL THEM RESIDENTS WITH REFUGEE BACKGROUND SAYING WE SHOULDN'T BE REDUCING THEIR IDENTITY TO A SINGLE THING.

WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT TO YOU AND YOUR TEAM?

>> THAT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT WE DECIDED AS WE STARTED THIS PROJECT WORKING WITH LOCAL RESETTLEMENT AGENCY PARTNERS SO THAT WE COULD HELP ESTABLISH THAT IDEA IN THE COMMUNITY WHERE WE'RE WORKING IN RESETTLING PEOPLE, THAT THEY ARE NOT SOMETHING TO BE STIGMATIZED AS FALLING INTO THIS CATEGORY, BUT THEY ARE PEOPLE THAT WERE FORCED TO FLEE AS REFUGEES, HAD THAT STATUS AND HAD THAT BACKGROUND BUT THEY ARE PEOPLE FIRST AND FOREMOST WITH ALL KINDS OF INTERESTING EXPERIENCES AND STORIES TO TELL AND THINGS TO OFFER.

>> NOW, YOU AND YOUR STUDENTS HAVE BEEN STUDYING THESE COMMUNITIES IN WISCONSIN FOR A FEW YEARS.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD BE SURPRISED TO KNOW OSHKOSH IS ONE OF THE LEADING PLACES FOR PEOPLE TO RESETTLE INTO WISCONSIN.

WHY IS THAT?

>> YEAH.

THAT WAS PART OF THE BASIS FOR THE ORIGIN OF THE WHOLE PROJECT, SORT OF CURIOUS SITUATION WHERE THE CITY OF OSHKOSH IS THE NINTH BIGGEST CITY IN THE STATE, OR AT LEAST IT WAS, I THINK IT STILL IS.

THE CENSUS NUMBERS JUST CAME OUT.

BUT THE SECOND LARGEST PLACE OF RESETTLEMENT IN THE STATE, AHEAD OF MADISON.

SO THAT'S A PRETTY INTERESTING PHENOMENON THAT HAS ITS ROOTS IN RESETTLEMENT OF HMONG PEOPLE IN THE '70s.

THE FOX VALLEY WAS ONE OF THE FIRST, FIRST FAMILIES TO COME AS HMONG REFUGEES CAME TO THE FOX VALLEY AND THERE WERE ORGANIZATIONS THAT WERE INTERESTED IN SPONSORING AND HELPING AND THINGS MOVED ON FROM THERE TO EVENTUALLY HAVING A RESETTLEMENT AGENCY WORLD RELIEF BE LOCATED IN OSHKOSH.

NOW THEY HAVE OSHKOSH AND APPLETON OFFICES, SO THAT INFRASTRUCTURE IS THERE.

YOU KNOW, IT'S MAYBE MORE AFFORDABLE THAN OTHER PLACES IN THE STATE, SO YOU ADD THAT ALONG WITH THIS HISTORY OF WELCOMING AND RESETTLING PEOPLE SO PEOPLE KNOW HOW TO DO IT IN THIS AREA.

AND WORD OF MOUTH MEANS A LOT BECAUSE THERE ARE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT COME AND THEY'RE RESETTLED TO SOMEPLACE THEY DIDN'T CHOOSE IN THE UNITED STATES BUT THEY FOLLOWED THEIR NETWORKS TO PLACES THAT OTHERS IN THEIR FAMILIES OR FRIENDSHIP CIRCLES HAVE TOLD THEM THIS IS A GOOD PLACE TO RAISE KIDS, FIND A JOB.

>> ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT YOU STUDIED AND YOU CHANGED HIS NAME, YOU CALL HIM JAWAD, IS A FORMER AFGHAN TRANSLATOR WHO'S BEEN SETTLED IN WISCONSIN.

WHAT CAN HIS EXPERIENCE TELL US ABOUT WHAT SOME OF THE PEOPLE COMING HERE MIGHT GO THROUGH?

>> YEAH.

HE'S -- LIKE SO MANY OF THESE PEOPLE, THEY ARE AMAZING PEOPLE, REALLY.

RESILIENT.

I THINK ONE PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT RESIDENTS WITH REFUGEE BACKGROUNDS IS IT'S LESS THAN 1% USUALLY OF PEOPLE THAT ARE DISPLACED BECAUSE OF WAR AND VIOLENCE AND PERSECUTION THAT EVER GET RESETTLED.

THESE PEOPLE HAVE GONE THROUGH SERIOUS TRAUMA AND A LOT OF RIG RIGAMAROLE TO END UP BEING PLACED IN WISCONSIN, WHEREVER THAT MAY BE.

SO IT'S A HARD THING.

IN HIS CASE, THE REASON WE HAD TO HIDE HIS IDENTITY, EVEN THOUGH HE WAS SO WILLING TO TALK TO US, SUCH A WARM PERSON.

WE WERE IN HIS HOUSE.

HE SERVED US TEA AND TREATED US LIKE FRIENDS.

BUT IT'S THAT PEOPLE ARE ACTIVELY LOOKING FOR HIM AND WOULD LIKE TO SEE HIM DEAD.

AND HE'S VERY, VERY WORRIED.

THIS IS A COUPLE YEARS AGO WHEN WE ACTUALLY INTERVIEWED HIM.

SO NOW I CAN ONLY IMAGINE WHAT HE AND OTHERS LIKE HIM ARE GOING THROUGH THAT ARE HERE ON SPECIAL IMMIGRANT VISAS WHO ARE TREATED LIKE -- PEOPLE IN THAT CATEGORY ARE TREATED SIMILARLY TO PEOPLE THAT COME AS REFUGEES, BUT THEY COME BECAUSE THEY'VE GIVEN AID TO THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.

HE TOLD US THEN THAT HE WAS -- EVERY SECOND OF EVERY DAY THINKING ABOUT HIS FAMILY THAT WAS NOT WITH HIM IN THE UNITED STATES.

SO THEY'RE DEALING WITH TRAUMA OF ALL KINDS, BUT A GUY LIKE HIM, LIKE MANY PEOPLE THAT WE TALK TO FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD, HAVE EXTENSIVE EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE.

THEY HAVE A LOT TO OFFER.

BUT PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY HAVE BEEN THROUGH SO HELLISH TRAUMA AND IT'S GOING TO TAKE TIME TO READJUST TO LIFE HERE.

BY THE TIME WE TALKED TO HIM AFTER BEING HERE FIVE YEARS HE OWNED A HOME, HAD A STEADY JOB, HAD ENROLLED IN A FOUR-YEAR UNIVERSITY WITH PLANS TO GET A MASTER'S AND MAYBE EVEN A PH.D. THAT IS NOT UNUSUAL.

THESE ARE OFTEN QUITE HIGHLY EDUCATED PEOPLE THAT SOMETIMES TAKE A STEP DOWN WHEN THEY COME HERE.

THEY HAVE A LOT MORE TO OFFER IN A LOT OF CASES THAN THE OPPORTUNITIES THEY'RE GIVEN PARTLY BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND WHAT A REFUGEE IS OR WHY PEOPLE LIKE HIM HAVE ENDED UP IN WISCONSIN.

SO HOPEFULLY PEOPLE CAN BECOME MORE AWARE OF THAT, ESPECIALLY WITH THIS RELATIVE DELUGE OF PEOPLE THAT WE MAY SOON BE SEEING IN WISCONSIN THAT ARE GOING TO NEED EXTRA, EXTRA HELP AND COMPASSION AND INTEREST.

>> WE HAVE JUST A FEW SECONDS LEFT, BUT I WANT YOU TO BRIEFLY ANSWER, THE IDEA OF ASSIMILATION AND AMERICA AS A MELTING POT, IS THAT STILL RELEVANT TODAY?

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR PEOPLE COMING HERE, TO STILL RETAIN THEIR OWN IDENTITY?

>> YEAH.

I THINK ONE THING THAT'S BEEN REALLY INTERESTING IS THAT FOR THE MOST PART PEOPLE -- WE INTERVIEWED AND/OR SURVEYED OVER 100 PEOPLE WITH REFUGEE BACKGROUNDS SO FAR.

MOST OF THEM HAVE EXPRESSED POSITIVITY ABOUT HOW THEY WERE WELCOMED HERE, BUT PEOPLE DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND OUR CULTURE AND YES TO THE QUESTION OF, YOU KNOW, DO YOU FEEL LIKE PEOPLE EXPECT YOU TO CHANGE YOUR CULTURE.

SO ON THE ONE HAND, IT IS -- I THINK IT MEETS UP WITH PEOPLE'S EXPECTATIONS IN A LOT OF WAYS IN TERMS OF BEING THE LAND OF OPPORTUNITY, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO EDUCATION.

BUT IN OTHER WAYS, THEY FEEL LIKE WISCONSINITES AREN'T NECESSARILY -- AND NOT EVERYONE, BUT THEY'VE HAD EXPERIENCES, ENOUGH EXPERIENCES TO KNOW THAT NOT ALL WISCONSINITES ARE VERY WELL-EDUCATED ON WHO PEOPLE ARE FROM DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> SO THAT THE INTERMINGLING DOESN'T HAPPEN EASILY ALWAYS.

>> WE'LL HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.

WE DO WANT TO FOLLOW UP WITH YOU.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME TODAY.

>> THANKS A LOT.

>> FOR FURTHER COVERAGE OF THE ARRIVAL OF AFGHAN REFUGEES TO WISCONSIN, GO TO pbswisconsin.org AND CLICK ON THE NEWS SITE.

THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.

I'M ZAC SCHULTZ.

HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND.

>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS WISCONSIN.