>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL PRODUCTION.

>> THEY SAY DON'T CALL, BUT I CALL ANYWAY.

AND THEY SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, EITHER WE DON'T HAVE -- WE RAN OUT OF THE VACCINE OR WE DON'T HAVE IT OR WE DON'T KNOW WHEN WE'RE GOING TO GET IT.

THEY SAY THAT.

>> PEOPLE LONG SINCE ELIGIBLE IN SEARCH OF A VACCINATION.

DESPITE A WEEK WHEN WISCONSIN SOARS TO THE TOP IN PER CAPITA SHOTS IN THE NATION.

AS A LEGAL CHALLENGE TO GOVERNOR EVERS THE LATEST MASK MANDATE TAKE SHAPE.

>> I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.

TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW," AN 84-YEAR-OLD WOMAN STRUGGLING TO FIND A VACCINATION.

ACT 10 TURNS TEN YEARS OLD.

THE LASTING IMPACT OF THE BUDGET REPAIR BILL, THE 2011 LAW THAT ENDED COLLECTIVE BARGAINING IN WISCONSIN.

AND WE'LL EXAMINE THE POLITICS OF THE ONGOING U.S. SENATE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL OF DONALD TRUMP.

IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR FEBRUARY 12.

>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS WISCONSIN.

>> WISCONSIN HAS ADMINISTERED MORE THAN 900,000 DOSES OF THE COVID-19 VASKS.

VACCINE.

BUT EVEN AS THE STATE HAS BECOME A NATIONAL LEADER, SOME FEEL THEY ARE BEING LEFT BEHIND.

SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER ZAC SCHULTZ HAS ONE WOMAN'S STORY.

>> I'M ON THE LIST, BUT I NEVER GET CALLED.

>> JACKIE ROSS HAS BEEN ON THE PHONE TO NEARLY EVERY HEALTH CARE PROVIDER IN SOUTHERN WISCONSIN LOOKING TO SEE WHEN SHE CAN GET THE COVID-19 VACCINE.

>> AND I HAVE BEEN CALLING ALL OVER.

IT DOESN'T DO ANY GOOD, BUT I DO IT.

>> JASKKY JACKIE IS 84 YEARS OLD AND HAS CANCER AND TAKES CARE OF HER PARTNER WHO IS 86 AND DISABLED.

>> I'M REALLY DESPERATE TO GET A VACCINATION BECAUSE I KNOW THA -- THAT MY FORM OF CANCER IS VULNERABLE WITH THIS.

>> THEY GETS PRIMARY CARE FROM A SMALL CLINIC IN MADISON AND THIS IS WHAT SHE HEARS WHEN SHE CALLS FOR INFORMATION.

>> WE HAVE A VERY LIMITED SUPPLY OF COVID-19 VACCINES.

WE ARE CURRENTLY CALLING PATIENTS TO SCHEDULE OVER THE AGE OF 80 WHO MEET THE CRITERIA OR UNTIL WE NO LONGER HAVE A SUPPLY.

WE UNDERSTAND THAT OUR PATIENTS ARE EAGER FOR THE VACCINE, BUT WE ASK THAT YOU NOT CALL THE CLINIC FOR VACCINE UPDATES.

WE ARE UNABLE TO PLACE PATIENTS ON A WAIT LIST OR PROVIDE A FURTHER UPDATE AS OF YET.

>> I THINK THAT THE CLINIC IS NOT GETTING ADEQUATE SUPPLIES.

>> JACKIE SAYS SHE HAS FRIENDS ALL OVER THE STATE THAT ARE YOUNGER THAN HER THAT HAVE RECEIVED THEIR FIRST DOSE.

>> I'M BEYOND FRUSTRATED.

I'M REALLY UPSET.

>> WHILE JACKIE FEELS LEFT BEHIND, SHE'S NOT ALONE.

>> WE RECOGNIZE THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF FOLKS THAT KIND OF FIT A SIMILAR DESCRIPTION.

>> TESS ELLENS IS THE COVID VACCINE DEPUTY FOR PUBLIC HEALTH MADISON DANE COUNTY.

>> WE'RE DEFINITELY HEARING THE FRUSTRATION OF PEOPLE THAT ARE WAITING.

>> SHE SAYS THE STATE HAS BEEN RECEIVING AROUND 70,000 DOSES EACH WEEK.

>> LAST WEEK, THE REQUEST TO THE STATE FOR THE STATE OF WISCONSIN, THE ASK WAS 290,000 DOSES OF VACCINE.

SO THOSE NUMBERS ARE CLEARLY NOT ADDING UP.

>> UNFORTUNATELY FOR JACKIE, THE FACT HER INDEPENDENT CLINIC IS SO SMALL MAY HURT THEM.

>> BECAUSE OF OUR DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM, IT IS CHALLENGING FOR US TO MAKE DELIVERIES OF ONLY 30, 40, 50 VACCINES.

SO WE'VE SET A FLOOR OF AT LEAST 50 VACCINES.

I KNOW SOME HAVE ASKED FOR THAT AND STILL NOT RECEIVED THEM JUST BECAUSE, AGAIN, OF THAT -- THAT CHALLENGING VACCINATION SUPPLY ISSUE.

>> WE ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT SOME PEOPLE THAT ARE WITH INDEPENDENT CLINICS MIGHT NOT BE GETTING VACCINE AS QUICKLY AS LARGER HEALTH CARE SYSTEMS.

>> PUBLIC HEALTH MADISON DANE COUNTY DOES OFFER VACCINATIONS BUT THEY'RE PRIORITIZING UNDERSERVED GROUPS.

>> FOLKS THAT DON'T HAVE A PRIMARY CARE PROVIDER, THOSE THAT DON'T HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE, THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> JACKIE GETS HER CANCER TREATMENT THROUGH UW HEALTH, SO SHE ASKED THEM.

>> AND JUST BECAUSE MY CANCER DOCTOR IS AT THE UW, I CAN'T GET IT THERE.

>> UW HEALTH IS VACCINATING 5,000 PEOPLE A WEEK AND WORKING DOWN TO PATIENTS IN THEIR 60s.

THEY EXPLAINED WE HAVE RECEIVED CLEAR GUIDANCE THAT HEALTH SYSTEMS ARE EXPECTED TO VACCINATE THEIR PAIRCHTS AS PATIENTS AS PART OF THE OVERALL EFFORT AND THAT HAS BEEN INTERPRETED LOCALLY AS MEANING THOSE PATIENTS WHO RECEIVE THEIR PRIMARY CARE WITHIN YOUR SYSTEM.

>> I DON'T KNOW HOW SOMEONE OUR AGE, 84 AND 86, ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SCROUNGING AROUND LOOKING FOR A VACCINE.

>> IN THE END, JACKIE WILLFUL LIKELY JUST HAVE TO KEEP WAITING.

>> THE BEST THING YOU ARE IS IF YOU ARE CONNECTED WITH A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER, YOU MIGHT HAVE TO WAIT A LITTLE BIT.

>> REPORTING FROM MADISON, I'M ZAC SCHULTZ FOR "HERE AND NOW."

>> FOR PEOPLE LIKE JACKIE ROSS HAVING TROUBLE TRYING TO GET A VACCINE, NEARLY 200 WALGREENS IN WISCONSIN ARE RECEIVING MORE THAN 17,000 DOSES OF THE VACCINE THROUGH THE FEDERAL RETAIL PHARMACY PROGRAM AND PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SIGN UP FOR APPOINTMENTS ON THEIR WEBSITE.

ALSO, ROCK COUNTY WILL HOST THE STATE'S FIRST COMMUNITY VACCINE CLINIC NEXT TUESDAY, WITH MORE SUCH CLINICS BEING PLANNED.

NOW TURNING TO POLITICAL NEWS, DID WHAT HAPPENED TEN YEARS AGO IN WISCONSIN USHER IN AN ERA OF EXTREME PARTISAN DIVIDE HERE AND ACROSS THE NATION?

FORMER REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR SCOTT WALKER INTRODUCED HIS BUDGET REPAIR BILL, ACT 10, IN 2011.

THE ACT CUT $800 MILLION IN FUNDING FROM K-12 SCHOOLS AND BACKFILLED THAT BY REQUIRING PUBLIC EMPLOYEES TO PAY INTO THEIR RETIREMENT AND HEALTH CARE BENEFITS.

IT ALSO HOBBLED PUBLIC UNIONS AND THEIR COFFERS.

WHAT WALKER CALLED A MODEST CHANGE RESULTED IN A HISTORY-MAKING STORM OF PROVE TESTS AT THE CAPITOL.

WE SHARE THE REPORT WE PRODUCED IN 2011.

[CHANTING AND SHOUTING] >> SCOTT WALKER IS A GOOD GOVERNOR.

HE'SDOING NOTHING MORE THAN HE SAID HE WOULD DO.

>> THIS IS MAKING CHANGES IN TERMS OF COLLECTIVE BARGAINING PROCESS.

>> AND IT ESSENTIALLY KILLED IEWN YIEWNS FOR UNIONS FOR TEACHERS AROUND THE STATE.

>> THERE'S A COST TO EVERYTHING AND WISCONSIN IS BROKE.

>> I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE A SHOCK TO ANYBODY.

>> SCOTT WALKER HAS GOT TO GO!

>> I BELIEVE THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE ELECTED ME AND THE LEGISLATURE TO BE BOLD AND AGGRESSIVE.

[CHANTING AND SHOUTING] >> THIS IS MAKING CHANGES IN TERMS OF THE COLLECTIVE BARGAINING PROCESS SO THAT WE CAN ACCURATELY AND EFFECTIVELY GET THE SORT OF MODEST CHANGES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN IT COMES TO HEALTH CARE AND PENSION CONTRIBUTIONS.

>> IT'S ONE THING TO DO FISCAL BUSINESS.

IT'S ANOTHER THING TO DO POLITICAL BUSINESS AND TAKE PEOPLE'S RIGHTS AWAY.

>> WISCONSIN IS BROKE AND THAT'S WHY I MADE THE TRIP DOWN HERE FROM WAUSAU TODAY.

I'M -- I'M -- I'M CONCERNED.

I HAVE TWO LITTLE BOYS.

I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR FUTURES.

>> THESE MODEST CHANGES ARE REASONABLE.

>> THIS IS NOT A MODEST PROPOSAL.

THIS IS A RADICAL PROPOSAL.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT PUTS -- IT UPENDS YEARS AND DECADES OF LABOR RELATIONS.

>> THIS BILL IS ABOUT AN ASSAULT ON WORKERS' RIGHTS AND IT DOESN'T NEED TO HAPPEN.

>> SENATOR, WE HAVE NOTHING TO GIVE.

THE STATE IS BROKE.

>> THE BOTTOM LINE IS THE TAXPAYERS OF THE STATE NEED TO BE HEARD AS WELL.

[CHANTING AND SHOUTING] >> IT BECOMES OBVIOUSLY JUST SORT OF A WAITING GAME.

IT'S A WAY TO PROTEST THE PROCESS.

I TREMENDOUSLY DISAGREE WITH THE PROCESS.

I DISAGREE WITH THE BILL.

>> WE FIND OURSELVES IN A SITUATION WHERE NOW WE'RE ON FINAL PASSAGE, AND WE'RE WAITING.

I MEAN, WE'RE WAITING FOR ONE DEMOCRATIC SENATOR TO SHOW UP FOR WORK.

>> WE CAN BALANCE THE BUDGET ON THE CONCESSIONS THAT THE UNIONS HAVE ALREADY DONE.

THIS IS STRICTLY UNION BUSTING.

THAT'S ALL IT IS.

>> NO, YOU CAN'T.

>> YOU CAN'T DENY WORKERS THEIR RIGHTS.

>> YOU KNOW AND I KNOW T. YOU CAN'T BALANCE THIS BUDGET ON THE CONCESSIONS THAT THE UNIONS ARE WILLING TO MAKE RIGHT NOW.

THERE'S NOT A CHANCE F..

IF YOU DON'T MAKE CHANGES TO COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AND ALLOW THE FLEXIBILITY FOR MAYORS THROUGHOUT THE STATE THEY WON'T SURVIVE THE CUTS COMING IN THE GOVERNOR'S BUDGET NEXT WEEK.

>> THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT YOU TO DO.

>> WE NEED A COMMITMENT TO THE FUTURE SO OUR CHILDREN DON'T FACE EVEN MORE DIRE CONSEQUENCES THAN WHAT WE FACE TODAY.

>> THE KIDS IN THIS STATE, THE STUDENTS IN THE STATE DIDN'T CREATE THIS MESS AND UNFORTUNATELY LOOKS TO ME LIKE THE BUDGET IS BEING BALANCED ON THEIR BACKS.

>> YOU'RE TAKING A QUIZ, PLEASE, QUIETLY.

>> WE CAN MANAGE THESE CUTS, FIGURE OUT A WAY TO GET THROUGH THIS BY ASKING MORE FROM OUR EMPLOYEES FOR BENEFITS THEY RECEIVE AND WE CAN MANAGE THOSE CUTS.

>> WE'RE JUST TRYING TO MAKE EVERYONE PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE.

>> THIS IS NOT ABOUT MONEY.

THIS IS ABOUT PROTECTION.

IT'S ABOUT SAFETY.

IT'S ABOUT WORKING CONDITIONS.

>> WHAT IS MOST IMPORTANT AND WHAT THESE PEOPLE ARE VITALLY CONCERNED ABOUT IS THAT THEIR RIGHT TO A VOICE IN THE WORKPLACE THAT HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED HERE FOR 60 YEARS DOESN'T DISAPPEAR IN FIVE DAYS.

>> CALL THE ROLL.

>> NO.

NO.

NO.

>> CALL THE ROLL.

>> CALL THE ROLL.

>> GOVERNMENTAL BODY SHOULD PROVIDE 24 HOURS NOTICE.

>> THERE ARE 18 AYES, ONE NO.

THE CONFERENCE REPORT IS ADOPTED.

>> WE FEEL IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO TO GET THIS STATE ON THE RIGHT TRACK.

WE FEEL IT.

>> YOU ARE VOTING WITH A GIANT STORM CLOUD ABOVE YOUR HEAD.

>> CHARADE IS UP.

>> VOTE AYE.

NOTE NO.

THE CLERK WILL OPEN THE ROLL.

[CHANTING AND SHOUTING] >> WE WERE ELECTED TO MAKE TOUGH DECISIONS LAST NOVEMBER TO ENSURE THAT WE DIDN'T PASS THESE TOUGH DECISIONS ONTO OUR CHILDREN AND THE NEXT GENERATION AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE'VE DONE HERE TODAY.

[CHEERS AND APPLAUSE] ♪ [CHEERS AND APPLAUSE] ♪ >> WE'RE JUST ASKING TO BE TREATED FAIR.

THAT'S ALL.

[CHANTING AND SHOUTING] >> ONE BOOK AUTHOR SAID GOVERNOR WALKER TRADED ON THE POLITICS OF RESENTMENT IN HIS SWEEPING CHANGES TO THE STATUS QUO IN WISCONSIN.

ANOTHER AUTHOR AND JOURNALIST REPORTING AT THE TIME IS A CAPITOL CORRESPONDENT WROTE A BOOK ON ACT 10 CALLED "MORE THAN THEY BARGAINED FOR."

HE'S NOW RESEARCH DIRECTOR AT THE POLICY FORUM AND JOINS US TO DISCUSS THE POLITICAL IMPLICATIONS OF ACT 10 A DECADE LATER.

HEY, JASON.

THANK YOU FOR DOING THIS.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> WE WERE JUST TALKING OFF AIR A LITTLE BIT ABOUT OUR REACTIONS AS JOURNALISTS WHEN THIS HAPPENED AND I WANT TO JUST START THIS BY ASKING YOU THAT.

AS YOU SAID IN THE PRESS ROOM THERE, IN THE CAPITOL, AND YOU WATCHED THIS UNFOLD, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?

>> WELL, YOU JUST HAD THIS OVERWHELMING SENSE OF BEING A WITNESS TO HISTORY RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU, EVENTS THAT WERE, YOU KNOW, NOT NEARLY DRAWING NATIONAL ATTENTION, BUT INTERNATIONAL ATTENTION.

AND SO IN THAT SENSE AT LEAST IT'S MUCH LIKE THE EVENTS THAT WE'VE SEEN IN THE PAST YEAR, WHERE YOU'RE JUST AWARE IN REAL TIME THAT HISTORY IS UNFOLDING IN FRONT OF YOU.

>> YEAH.

INDEED.

SO AS TO THE IMPACTS OF ACT 10, THE KIND OF CLIFF NOTES VERSION OF IT IS THAT TAXES ARE DOWN AND SCHOOL SPENDING IS DOWN, BUT HELP US PUT A LITTLE MORE MEAT ON THAT.

WHY AND WHY?

WHY TAXES DOWN?

WHY IS SCHOOL SPENDING DOWN AS A RESULT?

>> YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT THAT THAT'S THE CASE WHEN YOU COMPARE WISCONSIN TO OTHER STATES AROUND THE COUNTRY.

YOU KNOW, I MEAN, ONE KEY AREA OBVIOUSLY IS IN THE AREA OF EMPLOYEE BENEFITS.

SO, YOU KNOW, PRIOR TO ACT 10, WISCONSIN RANKED VERY HIGHLY IN TERMS OF SPENDING ON PUBLIC EMPLOYEE BENEFITS, TEACHERS, FOR INSTANCE.

ACT 10 REQUIRED HIGHER CONTRIBUTIONS FOR PENSION AND HEALTH BENEFITS FOR MOST STATE AND LOCAL EMPLOYEES, AND SO THAT REALLY SHIFTED THAT EQUATION AND IT RESULTED IN, YOU KNOW, WISCONSIN GOING FROM LEADING THE COUNTRY IN THINGS LIKE EMPLOYEE BENEFIT SPENDING TO BEING BELOW THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.

NOW, IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THAT ISN'T JUST ABOUT PEOPLE'S BENEFITS BECAUSE THOSE HIGHER CONTRIBUTIONS ALSO LED TO LOWER TAKE-HOME PAY.

SO IT'S LOWER COST FOR STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, BUT ALSO REDUCED COMPENSATION FOR THEIR EMPLOYEES.

>> SO IN 2021, WHERE DOES THAT PUT WISCONSIN K-12 SCHOOLS?

>> IT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SEEN, AS YOU SAID, PER-PUPIL SPENDING FALL FROM ABOVE THE NATIONAL AVERAGE IN WISCONSIN TO BELOW IT AND THAT IS -- AS THAT HAS HAPPENED, OUR TAXES AT THE STATE AND LOCAL LEVEL IN WISCONSIN HAVE FALLEN FROM BEING IN THE TOP TEN NATIONALLY TO BEING 23rd TO BEING REALLY BELOW THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.

AND THAT HAS HAPPENED REALLY DESPITE THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE SEEN BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN LOCAL SCHOOL REFERENDA PASS IN RECENT YEARS.

SO YOU'VE SEEN TAXES FALL, YOU'VE SEEN SCHOOL SPENDING FALL AT LEAST RELATION TO OTHER STATES AND YOU HAVE SEEN INCREASINGLY SOME VOTERS AT THE LOCAL LEVEL BEING WILLING EVEN ON A SORT OF BIPARTISAN BASIS IN RED AND BLUE COMMUNITIES TO INCREASE THEIR OWN PROPERTY TAXES TO HAVE ADDITIONAL SPENDING FOR THEIR SCHOOL DISTRICT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

SO WHAT DID ACT 10 DO TO UNIONS?

>> WELL, I MEAN, THAT'S ONE OF THE MOST PRONOUNCED IMPACTS THAT YOU SEE.

EVEN BEFORE ACT 10, YOU HAD FALLING UNION MEMBERSHIP AS A SHARE OF THE OVERALL WORKFORCE AND I THINK THERE'S EVERY REASON TO THINK THAT THAT WOULD HAVE CONTINUED TO HAPPEN EVEN WITHOUT ACT 10.

BUT IT'S CLEARLY THE CASE THAT YOU SAW THAT ACCELERATE.

BECAUSE REALLY ONE OF THE FEW AREAS OF STRENGTH FOR UNIONS PRE-ACT 10 WAS PUBLIC EMPLOYEES.

AND OBVIOUSLY THERE WAS A PRECIPITOUS DROP IN MEMBERSHIP LEVEL FOR PUBLIC EMPLOYEES.

AND IT'S WORTH NOTING THAT FOR EVERYTHING THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, THERE'S BOTH WHAT ACT 10 DID, WHICH WAS REALLY A VERY NARROW PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

IT WAS SWEEPING, BUT IT WAS ONLY UP TO A POINT.

AND A WHOLE CHANGE IN GOVERNANCE AND PHILOSOPHY THAT WAS USHERED IN BY REPUBLICAN MAJORITIES THAT CAME INTO POWER IN 2011.

AND SO EVEN ON THE ASPECT OF UNIONS, WE SEE RIGHT TO WORK, WHICH AFFECTED PRIVATE SECTOR UNIONS.

THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN AS PART OF ACT 10.

BUT IT AND IN 2015.

BUT ACT 10 CERTAINLY OPENED THE DOOR TO A LOT OF THESE CHANGES THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

>> WELL, AS TO THE POLITICS OF ACT 10, DO YOU FEEL AS THOUGH ACT 10 MARKED THE END OF BIPARTISANSHIP IN WISCONSIN?

>> WELL, IT CERTAINLY WAS A VERY LENGTHY PAUSE.

I THINK IT CERTAINLY RECONFIGURED THE TIMES WE'RE LIVING IN NOW WHERE PEOPLE SEE SOMETHING FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG WITH THE OTHER SIDE.

NOT JUST INCORRECT, BUT WRONG.

AND YOU SAW BOTH ON THE -- THE DEMOCRATS SAW THIS ATTEMPT TO REALLY REPEAL MOST UNION POWER AS GOING TOO FAR, BEING OUTRAGEOUS.

AND THEN WHEN THE SENATE DEMOCRATS LEFT THE STATE CAPITOL TO DENY A QUORUM AND A VOTE ON ACT 10 AND WENT TO ILLINOIS, REPUBLICANS REALLY SAW THAT AS AN ILLEGITIMATE ACT.

AND SO YOU JUST HAD EITHER SIDE BEING SORT OF UNWILLING TO RECOGNIZE THE OTHER AS A LEGITIMATE ACTOR IN GOOD FAITH TRYING TO DO SOMETHING POSITIVE FOR THE STATE.

>> YES.

WELL, WE LEAVE IT THERE.

JASON STEIN, THANKS VERY MUCH.

WITNESS TO HISTORY.

THANKS A LOT.

>> PUBLIC EDUCATION AND THE STATE BUDGET WERE IN THE NEWS THIS WEEK, WITH A PARTY-LINE VOTE AMONG MEMBERS OF THE JOINT FINANCE COMMITTEE.

THE COMMITTEE BACKED A REPUBLICAN MEASURE THAT WOULD CONNECT THE FLOW OF SOME FEDERAL COVID DOLLARS TO THE AMOUNT OF IN-PERSON INSTRUCTION A GIVEN SCHOOL DISTRICT CONDUCTS.

THE COMMITTEE CO-CHAIR SAID IT WOULD BE AN INCENTIVE FOR SCHOOLS TO OPEN UP.

GOVERNOR EVERS REVEALED SEVERAL ITEMS HE'LL INCLUDE IN HIS BUDGET ADDRESS NEXT TUESDAY.

AMONG THEM, A PROPOSAL THAT WOULD LEGALIZE THE SALE OF RECREATIONAL AND MEDICAL MARIJUANA IN WISCONSIN.

A CALL FOR $150 MILLION FOR ADDITIONAL MENTAL HEALTH CARE SERVICES AND AN EXPANSION OF BADGERCARE.

A PROPOSED $43 MILLION FOR ECONOMIC PROGRAMS FOR STATE FARMERS AND GOVERNOR EVERS WILL REQUEST $140 MILLION FOR STATE CHILD CARE SERVICES.

GOVERNOR EVERS' BUDGET ADDRESS WILL BE BROADCAST LIVE ON PBS WISCONSIN ON THE WISCONSIN CHANNEL TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 16, AT 7:00 P.M. >> THE IMPEACHMENT TRIFLE TRIAL OF FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP CONTINUES INTO THE WEEKEND.

IT'S LIKELY HE WILL BE ACQUITTED BECAUSE NOT ENOUGH REPUBLICAN SENATORS WILL VOTE TO CONVICT HIM AFTER THE DEADLY ATTACK ON THE U.S. CAPITOL.

HIS DEFENSE, HE HAD A FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT TO SPEAK OUT.

ARGUMENTS IN FAVOR OF CONVICTION?

THAT DONALD TRUMP'S REPEATED CALLS TO STOP THE STEAL UNLEASHED HIS SUPPORTERS.

OUR NEXT GUEST IS A FORMER REPUBLICAN OF SOME WAY WITH HIS LONG-RUNNING CONSERVATIVE TALK RADIO PROGRAM IN WISCONSIN.

HE WENT FROM A NEVER-TRUMPER TO VOTING FOR JOE BIDEN.

HE'S THE FOUNDER AND EDITOR OF THE WEBSITE THE BULWARK.

CHARLIE SYKES JOINS US NOW TO GIVE US HIS TAKE ON THE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL AND MORE.

AND THANKS A LOT FOR JOINING US.

>> GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.

>> SO WHY DO YOU THINK DONALD TRUMP SHOULD BE CONVICTED IN THIS IMPEACHMENT TRIAL?

>> WELL, IF INCITING AN INSURRECTION IS NOT IMPEACHABLE, IF THAT DOES NOT CROSS A RED LINE, THEN WHAT WOULD BE IMPEACHABLE?

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THE HOUSE MANAGERS DID VERY EFFECTIVELY THIS WEEK WAS TO PUT WHAT HAPPENED IN CONTEXT, THAT THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES IS USING THE POWER OF HIS OFFICE TO MOBILIZE A MOB TO ATTACK CONGRESS TO PREVENT IT FROM COUNTING THE ELECTORAL VOTES TO OVERTURN A FREE AND FAIR ELECTION SO HE CAN HOLD ON TO POWER.

THIS IS WHY THE FOUNDERS ACTUALLY CREATED I THINK A PROVISION FOR IMPEACHMENT OF THE PRESIDENT.

>> YET DONALD TRUMP DID NOT JOIN IN THE ATTACK.

HOW CAN HE BE BLAMED FOR IT AND HOW CAN RHETORIC ALONE MAKE HIS SUPPORTERS STORM THE HALLS OF CONGRESS.

>> IT'S NOT JUST JANUARY 6.

THE ROLE OF THE BIG LIE, YOU HAVE TO ASK YOURSELF, IF DONALD TRUMP HAD NOT LIED ABOUT THE RESULTS OF THE ELECTION, WOULD THIS HAVE HAPPENED?

WOULD FIVE PEOPLE HAVE DIED?

AND I THINK THAT THE ANSWER TO THAT IS OBVIOUS, THAT DONALD TRUMP FOMENTED THIS.

HE LAID THE KINDLING WOOD FOR IT.

HE POURED THE KEROSENE OVER IT AND THEN HE TOSSED A MATCH.

THERE'S A LOT OF WHAT ABOUTISM, BUT THIS IS NOT JUST ANOTHER PROVE TEST OR BURNING DOWN THE 711.

THIS WAS AN ATTEMPT TO STOP THE CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES FROM PERFORMING A CORE CONSTITUTIONAL FUNCTION, TO COUNT THE ELECTORAL VOTES.

THAT'S WHAT DONALD TRUMP WANTED.

HE WANTED TO DELAY THAT PROCESS AND THE MOB WAS DOING IT.

SO IT IS UNPRECEDENTED IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

>> IN FACT HIS DEFENSE SAID HE WAS ENGAGING IN PROTECTED FREE SPEECH AND THEY TRIED TO CREATE THIS EQUIVALENCY WITH BLACK LIVES MATTER PROTESTS.

WHAT'S YOUR REACTION TO THOSE DEFENSES?

>> WELL, I THINK IT'S A BAD FAITH ARGUMENT BECAUSE THERE IS NO EQUIVALENCY BETWEEN PROTESTORS WHO MAY COMMIT ACTS OF VIOLENCE OR OF VANDALISM AND A CONCERTED ATTACK ON THE CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES.

THE CONTEXT MATTERS HERE.

THIS IS PART OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES EFFORT TO OVERTURN THIS ELECTION.

HE TRIED IN THE COURTS.

HE FAILED.

HE TRIED TO GET LEGISLATORS TO OVERRIDE THE POPULAR VOTE.

HE FAILED.

HE TRIED TO BULLY SECRETARIES OF STATE AND GOVERNORS INTO DOING IT.

HE FAILED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN UNTIL THE ONLY THING HE HAD LEFT WAS THIS MOB.

AND UNFORTUNATELY THEY CAME VERY CLOSE.

THIS IS THE OTHER POINT.

THEY CAME VERY CLOSE TO ACTUALLY STOPPING THE PROCESS OF CHOOSING A NEW PRESIDENT.

AND THIS WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED BUT FOR THE WORDS AND THE ACTIONS OF DONALD TRUMP.

>> SO IF TRUMP IS ACQUITTED, WHICH IS EXPECTED, WHY WON'T REPUBLICAN SENATORS VOTE TO CONVICT?

>> WELL, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THIS HAS BEEN THE LONG-RUNNING PATTERN OF REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE REFUSED TO STAND UP AGAINST DONALD TRUMP.

IF THERE WAS ANY MOMENT WHEN THEY WERE GOING TO TAKE A MOMENT TO SAY THAT WE'RE MOVING ON FROM TRUMP, THIS WOULD BE IT.

I THINK THE EVIDENCE WAS OVERWHELMING.

I THINK THAT HIS CONDUCT WAS SO EE GREEFNLG EGREGIOUS.

THEY LOSE NOTHING.

AND I THINK THIS IS ONE OF THOSE MOMENTS WHERE MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE HAVE TO ASK THEMSELVES WHAT COMES FIRST, COUNTRY OVER PARTY?

DO I TAKE MY OATH OF OFFICE SERIOUSLY?

OR SHOULD I BE WORRIED ABOUT MEAN TWEETS AND A PRIMARY CHALLENGE?

I THINK THIS IS A VERY, VERY CLEAR VOTE.

BUT I ALSO THINK THIS IS ANOTHER INDICATION OF THE FACT THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY JUST CAN'T QUIT DONALD TRUMP.

THEY'RE NOT WILLING TO DO IT.

>> WELL, YOU SAY THAT IT IS HARD FOR YOU TO WATCH THE TRUMPIFICATION OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN WISCONSIN.

WHAT IS THE FORMER PRESIDENT'S HOLD ON THAT PARTY AND ITS ELECTED OFFICIALS HERE?

>> I FIND IT REALLY EXTRAORDINARY, BECAUSE THIS WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU SAW EVEN UNDER RONALD REEF REAGAN OR GEORGE W. BUSH.

THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS BECOME A CULT OF PERSONALITY, THAT WHAT HAD ONCE BEEN SIMPLE PARTISAN POLARIZATION HAS NOW BECOME A KIND OF RAW TRIBAL DISAIFTION.

BUT IT IS DIFFICULT IN WISCONSIN BECAUSE AS YOU REMEMBER WISCONSIN WAS ONE OF THE BULWARKS AGAINST TRUMP DURING THE PRIMARIES.

THIS WAS ONE OF THE FEW REPUBLICAN PRIMARIES HE LOST.

THERE WAS TREMENDOUS SKEPTICISM ABOUT TRUMP.

YET YOU LOOK ACROSS THE PARTY AND LOOKING AT ELECTED OFFICIALS AND THEY HAVE ALMOST TO A PERSON BECOME TRUMP LOYALISTS.

>> CHARLIE SYKES, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> A FINAL NOTE BEFORE WE CLOSE.

TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 16 IS THE PRIMARY ELECTION DAY FOR STATE SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT.

FOR COMPLETE PROFILES ON ALL SEVEN CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR THE OFFICE, GO TO WISCONSIN WISCONSIN VOTE DOMPLEGHT AND THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.

I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.

HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND.

>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS WISCONSIN.