PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL PRODUCTION.

>> GOVERNOR TONY EVERS REVEALS HIS STATE BUDGET PLAN THIS WEEK, A PLAN HE CALLS THE BADGER BOUNCEBACK AGENDA.

REPUBLICANS CALL IT A BOUNCE BACKWARD BUDGET.

AND STATE VOTERS NARROW THE RACE FOR STATE SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION DOWN TO TWO, DEBORAH KERR AND JILL UNDERLY.

>> I'M F TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW" JOIN REPUBLICAN MARK BORN WEIGHING IN ON THE BUDGET PLAN.

THE FIRST OF OUR INTERVIEWS FOR SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION.

TONIGHT DEBORAH KERR IS HERE.

AND CHARLES TUBBS LOOKS BACK AT THE ACT 10 DEMONSTRATIONS A DECADE LATER.

IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR FEBRUARY 19.

>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS WISCONSIN.

>> DON'T LET ANYONE TELL YOU WE CAN'T AFFORD TO MAKE HEALTH CARE MORE ACCESSIBLE WHILE SAVING YOUR HARD-EARNED TAX DOLLARS.

DON'T LET ANYONE TELL YOU WE CAN'T AFFORD TO FULLY FUND OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS WHILE CUTTING TAXES AT THE SAME TIME.

DON'T LET ANYONE TELL YOU WE CAN'T AFFORD TO SUPPORT OUR FARMERS, OUR RURAL COMMUNITIES AND OUR SMALL BUSINESSES WHILE PROTECTING OUR NATURAL RESOURCES AND INVESTING IN NEW, CLEAN JOBS JOBS.

>> GOVERNOR TONY EVERS DELIVERED HIS BUDGET ADDRESS THIS WEEK.

THE $91 BILLION TWO-YEAR PLAN REPRESENTS AN INCREASE IN OVERALL SPENDING BY NEARLY 10%, WITH EDUCATION LEADING THE WAY.

IN HIS PLAN, K-12 SCHOOLS WOULD SEE A BOOST OF MORE THAN $1.6 BILLION AND THE UW SYSTEM WOULD SEE THE LARGEST INCREASE IN 20 YEARS.

TO HELP FUND THESE INCREASES, EVERS' BUDGET CALLS FOR A NEARLY $1 BILLION TAX INCREASE BY WAY OF LIMITS ON MANUFACTURERS' TAX CREDITS AND INCREASING THE CAPITAL GAINS TAX FOR HIGH-INCOME PEOPLE.

TAX CUTS OF NEARLY $600 MILLION WOULD GO TO CAREGIVERS, PARENTS AND LOW-INCOME INDIVIDUALS.

REPUBLICANS SAY THE GOVERNOR'S BUDGET INCLUDES WHAT THEY CALL POISON PILLS, LIKE EXPANDING MEDICAID, ROLLING BACK ACT 10 AND LEGALIZING RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA.

WE GET REPUBLICAN REACTION NOW FROM CO-CHAIR OF THE LEGISLATURE'S BUDGET-WRITING COMMITTEE, REPRESENTATIVE MARK BORN OF BEAVER DAM.

>> GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.

>> WHAT IS YOUR OVERALL REACTION TO THE GOVERNOR'S BUDGET?

>> WELL, I MEAN, OVERALL IT'S REALLY JUST A LIBERAL LIST.

IT HAS A TON OF POLICY IN IT, TRYING TO REPEAL A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAVE GONE INTO LAW IN THE LAST PROBABLY TEN YEARS IN WISCONSIN.

YOU MENTIONED SOME OF IT ON YOUR LEAD N WITH-IN THERE, WITH THE ACT 10 THINGS.

ALSO MASSIVE TAX INCREASES, HUGE SPENDING INCREASE AND JUST NOT SOMETHING THAT'S A REALISTIC BUDGET DOCUMENT MOVING FORWARD FOR THE STATE OF WISCONSIN.

>> SO WITH ALL OF THAT SAID, DO YOU EXPECT TO THROW IT OUT AND START ANEW?

>> WELL, WE'LL CERTAINLY LOOK I THINK IN THE COMING WEEKS.

CO-CHAIR AND I WILL SIT DOWN, BUT I WILL IMAGINE WE'LL REMOVE ALL THOSE POLICY ITEMS LIKE WE DID LAST TIME.

THEY SHOULD HAVE A LEGISLATIVE PROCESS, GO THROUGH THE PUBLIC HEARINGS AND LET STAKEHOLDERS WEIGH IN AND HAVE BIG DISCUSSIONS ON THOSE TYPE OF ISSUES.

AND CERTAINLY I THINK WHERE WE ARE IS PROBABLY SOME OF WHERE WE WERE LAST TIME, WHERE WE DID WORK FROM A BASE BUDGET.

IT'S GOING TO BE HARD TO WORK WITH ALL THE MASSIVE SPENDING AND TAX INCREASES IN THERE.

A LOT OF THAT IS GOING TO BE NONSTARTERS.

>> SO WHAT WILL REPUBLICAN PRIORITIES BE FOR THE BUDGET?

>> I THINK IT WILL BE A LOT OF THE STUFF YOU'VE SEEN FROM US IN THE PAST, FOCUS ON MAKING INVESTMENTS IN K-12 EDUCATION, BROADBAND, ROADS, ESPECIALLY LOCAL ROADS, OUR TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM AND MAKING SURE WE'VE GOT ACCESS TO OUR HIGH-QUALITY HEALTH CARE SYSTEMS HERE IN WISCONSIN.

THOSE ARE THINGS WE 'DONE WE 'DONE HAVE DONE THE LAST COUPLE BUDGETS.

YOU TALKED ABOUT THE EDUCATION SPENDING.

I DON'T THINK WE'LL SPEND AT THE SAME LEVEL MAYBE IN THE SAME WAY, BUT THERE'S ROOM FOR COMPROMISE THERE.

BROADBAND IS ANOTHER ONE.

WE'VE INVESTED IN THE BROADBAND THE LAST TWO BUDGETS.

THE GOVERNOR SAYS IT'S A PRIORITY THIS TIME.

THERE'S ROOM TO WORK THERE AND FOCUS ON THE ISSUE TOGETHER I THINK.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WILL YOU APPROVE THE EXECUTIVE BUDGET'S CALL FOR $95 MILLION TO UPGRADE THE UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE SYSTEM?

>> I THINK THAT WE TOOK ACTION THIS WEEK IN THE JOINT COMMITTEE ON A BILL THAT THE SENATE PASSED YESTERDAY AND WE'RE GOING TO PASS NEXT WEEK IN THE ASSEMBLY HOPEFULLY, TO GET THAT PROCESS STARTED.

AND I THINK THAT PROCESS AS WE OUTLINED IN THAT BILL WILL GIVE US A BETTER IDEA ON THE COST.

AFTER THE RFP COMES BACK, IF WE NEED TO APPROPRIATE FUNDS FOR A GOOD PLAN TO FIX THE SYSTEM, I THINK THE LEGISLATURE WILL BE OPEN TO TALKING ABOUT THAT, DEFINITELY.

>> LET'S TAKE A LISTEN NOW TO WHAT THE GOVERNOR HAD TO SAY DIRECTLY TO YOU AND YOUR COLLEAGUES.

>> TO MY FRIENDS IN THE LEGISLATURE, OUR OPPORTUNITY TO BOUNCE BACK FROM THIS CRISIS CALLS FOR YOU TO SUMMON THE WILL TO GET THIS DONE.

THERE'S NO TIME FOR FALSE PROMISES OF HOPE AND PROSPERITY WITH EMPTY WORDS THAT YOU KNOW FULL WELL WON'T MATCH YOUR ACTIONS.

YOU CAN DISAGREE WITH ME IF YOU WANT BUT DON'T PUNISH THE PEOPLE WE SERVE SO YOU CAN SETTLE A SCORE NO ONE BUT YOU IS KEEPING.

EACH TIME A BILL FAILS TO PASS, EACH TIME A COMPROMISE ENDS UP IN FLAMES, EACH TIME LEGISLATORS LOSE SIGHT OF THE PEOPLE WHO SEND YOU WHOEVER, THE DISAPPOINTMENT, THE RESENTMENT AND THE DISPARITIES GROW.

>> SO WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT MESSAGE FROM THE GOVERNOR TO YOU?

>> YEAH.

WELL, I DON'T THINK THAT MYSELF OR ANY OF MY COLLEAGUES HAVE LOST SIGHT OF THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE SENT US TO MADISON TO REPRESENT THEM.

I THINK IT'S QUITE THE OPPOSITE.

WHEN WE'RE PUSHING BACK ON THE GOVERNOR'S BUDGET THAT'S GOING TO TAKE THIS STATE BACKWARDS AND REPEAL A LOT OF THINGS WE PUT INTO PLACE IN THE LAST DECADE, WHEN HE'S LOOKING TO TAX WISCONSIN RESIDENTS AT A TIME WHEN WE'RE COMING OUT OF A NATIONAL PANDEMIC AND GETTING BACK ON OUR FEET, WE'RE DEFINITELY REMEMBERING WHO SENT US THERE AND WORKING TOGETHER IS A TWO-WAY STREET.

SO WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO REPRESENT OUR CONSTITUENTS AND WE'RE HOPING THAT THE GOVERNOR WILL WORK WITH US ON THIS BUDGET AND WE CAN ACCOMPLISH A BUDGET LIKE WE DID TWO YEARS AGO.

BUT IT'S DEFINITELY A TWO-WAY STREET AND I DON'T ACCEPT AT ALL ANY IDEA THAT -- I BELIEVE THAT I HAVE A LOT OF HOPE IN THIS STATE AND MY CONSTITUENTS AND I'M THERE TO REPRESENT THEM JUST LIKE MY COLLEAGUES IN THE LEGISLATURE ARE AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO.

>> YOU SPOKE EARLIER TO THIS, THAT YOU BELIEVE THERE ARE DEFINITELY THINGS THAT YOU CAN AGREE ON WITH THE EVERS' BUDGET, LIKE MAYBE THIS ISN'T THE NUMBER, BUT $200 MILLION FOR BROADBAND.

BUT HE ALSO HAS IN THERE A $200 MILLION FOR BUSINESSES TO TRY TO RECOVER FROM THE PANDEMIC.

I TRUST THAT THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT YOU'D BE LOOKING AT AS WELL?

>> YEAH.

AGAIN, UNTIL WE HAVE CAUCUS DISCUSSIONS AND THINGS AND SEE HOW ALL THE DIFFERENT THINGS FIT TOGETHER, WE CAN'T COMMIT TO A NUMBER.

DEFINITELY WE WILL WANT TO INVEST IN BROADBAND.

I'M SURE WE WILL INVEST IN BUSINESSES TO HELP THEM COME OUT OF THE PANDEMIC.

ANOTHER IMPORTANT THING IS THE NEEDS OF OUR WORKFORCE.

WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE RETIRING, FAMILIES AREN'T AS LARGE AS THEY USED TO BE.

WE NEED TO HAVE THE HIGH-QUALITY WORKFORCE WE'VE ALWAYS HAD IN WISCONSIN.

WE NEED TO ATTRACT MORE TALENT TO OUR WORK WORKFORCE.

>> WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.

REPRESENTATIVE MARK BORN, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> WISCONSIN VOTERS NARROWED THE RACE FOR SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION DOWN TO TWO CANDIDATES ON TUESDAY.

DEBORAH KERR AND JILL UNDERLY WILL FACE OFF ON APRIL 6.

TONIGHT IN THE FIRST OF INTERVIEWS WITH EACH CANDIDATE, WE INTRODUCE YOU TO DEB KERR, WHO HAS WORKED WITH PAROCHIAL, CHARTER, PRIVATE AND PUBLIC SCHOOLS, INCLUDING 13 YEARS AS THE SUPERINTENDENT OF THE BROWN DEER SCHOOL DISTRICT AND IS CO-CHAIR OF THE TASK FORCE TO ADVANCE TEACHERS IN THE PIPELINE.

THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> RIGHT NOW AS YOU KNOW AN IMPORTANT ISSUE FOR WISCONSIN SCHOOLS IS WHETHER AND HOW TO REOPEN SAFELY.

WHAT ARE YOU CALLING FOR?

>> I'M THE ONLY CANDIDATE TO CALL FOR A STATEWIDE REENTRY BACK TO SCHOOL.

WE CAN DO THIS SENSIBLY AND SAFELY.

THE RESEARCH HAS SHOWN ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT KIDS CAN COME BACK TO SCHOOL AND ARE NOT SPREADERS OF THE DISEASE.

I HAVE PROPOSED A REENTRY AND RECOVER PLAN THAT GETS OUR ELEMENTARY STUDENTS INTO THE SCHOOLS FIRST WITH PROPER PROTOCOLS AND OUR ADMINISTRATORS AND SCHOOL BOARDS HAVE BEEN PLANNING FOR THIS SINCE LAST SPRING.

SO THEY ARE READY AND WITH THE VACCINATIONS COMING UP, I THINK WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO IT SAFELY AND BECAUSE OUR KIDS ARE NOT WINNING RIGHT NOW.

OUR KIDS ARE EXPERIENCING SIGNIFICANT LEARNING LOSS AND BECAUSE OF THIS PANDEMIC AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO TO RECOVER.

>> GOVERNOR EVERS' BUDGET CALLED FOR BIG INCREASES IN K-12 FUNDING.

WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO HIS PLAN PLAN?

>> WE ARE GOING TO NEED SIGNIFICANT FUNDS AND RESOURCES PUT IN JUST THE RIGHT PLACES TO SUPPORT ALL OF OUR SCHOOLS.

EVERY SCHOOL DISTRICT HAS DIFFERENT NEEDS BASED UPON THE UNIQUE NEEDS OF THEIR CHILDREN AND COMMUNITY.

BUT WE ARE GOING TO NEED EXTENDED FUNDING BECAUSE WE MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE A REGULAR SCHOOL YEAR.

WE MIGHT NEED TO EXTEND LEARNING THROUGH SUMMER LEARNING PROGRAMS, PROGRAMS ON THE WEEKENDS, POSSIBLY LOOKING AT A TOTALLY DIFFERENT WAY OF EDUCATING OUR KIDS.

WE DID LEARN THAT SOME KIDS ARE SUCCESSFUL IN THIS VIRTUAL LEARNING, BUT WE'VE GOT A LOT OF WORK TO DO TO CATCH UP.

>> SO YOU LIKE HIS FUNDING IN HIS BUDGET.

IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?

>> THE SCHOOLS NEED THE FUNDING.

THERE'S A LOT OF ADDITIONAL RESOURCES BECAUSE OF THE PPE, THE STAFFING NEEDS TO PUT IN PROTOCOLS FOR CLEANING AND SANITATION AND JUST THE SPREADING OUT OF KIDS.

WE NEED TO MAKE SURE KIDS HAVE MASKS, ARE SOCIALLY DISTANCED AND OUR TEACHERS ARE PROTECTED.

>> THE EVERS' BUDGET ALSO CALLS ON CAPS FOR ENROLLMENT AND PRIVATE SCHOOL TEACHERS TO HAVE STATE LICENSES.

AS A SUPPORTER OF VOUCHER SCHOOLS, WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT?

>> FIRST OF ALL, THE STATE SUPERINTENDENT THE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR SERVING ALL CHILDREN AND SO ALL SECTORS OF EDUCATION ARE UNDER MY PURVIEW AS THE STATE SUPERINTENDENT.

AND SO WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO SUPPORT ALL KIDS AND MAKE SURE THEY HAVE WHAT THEY NEED.

AND SO IRREGARDLESS OF WHAT THE GOVERNOR HAS PROPOSED, THE LEGISLATURE IS THE GROUP THAT MAKES THOSE DECISIONS AND I BELIEVE THAT ALL KIDS NEED TO BE SUPPORTED.

>> AND SO YOU DISFAVOR THOSE KINDS OF CAPS.

>> IT'S NOT MY DECISION AS THE STATE SUPERINTENDENT.

HOWEVER, I DO KNOW THAT ALL KIDS HAVE TO BE SERVED.

AND SOME OF THOSE SCHOOLS ARE DOING VERY WELL.

AND SO I PROPOSE ONE SYSTEM OF FULL ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY, MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE ALL ACCOUNTABLE, ESPECIALLY WHEN USING TAXPAYER DOLLARS.

>> THE GOVERNOR WOULD ALSO ROLL BACK PARTS OF ACT 10 AND ALLOW FOR UNION COLLECTIVE BARGAINING.

IN YOUR MIND, WOULD THAT HELP OR HURT SCHOOLS?

>> WELL, TO ME, THE ACT 10 SITUATION PROVIDED SOME RELIEF IN A TEMPORARY WAY.

HOWEVER, IT'S ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIPS THAT YOU HAVE WITH YOUR TEACHERS.

SO IN BROWN DEER, WHERE I WAS THE SUPERINTENDENT FOR THE LAST 13 YEARS, WE TREATED OUR TEACHERS WITH PROFESSIONALISM.

WE CRAIFTED CREATED THE BEST WORK ENVIRONMENTS POSSIBLE.

BEFORE WE MADE ANY DECISIONS, WE ALWAYS VOCHED THEM INVOLVED THEM IN THE PROCESS.

I BELIEVE IT JUST DEPENDS.

THE SCHOOL BOARD IN BROWN DEER NEVER OVER-REACHED THEIR GOVERNANCE IN DEALING WITH OUR TEACHERS BECAUSE WE TRUSTED THEM AND THEY TRUSTED US.

>> ACHIEVEMENT GAPS ARE AN ENDURING PROBLEM IN WISCONSIN.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

>> FIRST OF ALL, WISCONSIN HAS THE LARGEST ACHIEVEMENT GAPS IN THE COUNTRY AND WE HAVE BEEN ON THAT LIST FOR THE LAST TEN YEARS.

THAT'S REP REEF HENCABLE AND UNACCEPTABLE.

WE NEED TO HAVE A LASER FOCUS ON LITERACY AND MATH.

BUT MY TEAM HAS PREPARED A ROADMAP THAT WILL GET KIDS ON THE RIGHT PATH FOR LEARNING HOW TO READ WITH MORE GROWTH AND ACHIEVEMENT WITHIN THE FIRST YEAR.

THE IMPORTANT PART OF THIS PLAN IS WE HAVE 400 DIFFERENT WAYS OF TEACHING READING RIGHT NOW IN OUR STATE.

WE NEED TO HAVE ALIGNMENT IN TERMS OF CRYSK CURRICULUM, ASSESSMENTS TO MEASURE GROWTH AND TO GET THE OUTCOMES WE EXPECT FOR ALL KIDS.

>> YOU HAVE SAID THAT YOU'VE BEEN IMMERSED IN EQUITY, DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION FOR YOUR ENTIRE CAREER.

I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT A TWEET YOU POSTED THIS WEEK THAT MADE HEADLINES.

WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SAY ABOUT THAT?

>> FIRST OF ALL, BEING AN ED CAIFORT IS A CALLING AND I CONTINUE TO BE CALLED INTO THIS WORK.

I DO HAVE A RECORD OF ACTION AS IT RELATES TO PROTECTING ALL STUDENTS OF COLOR.

I HAVE A REPUTATION FOR SPEAKING MY TRIEWFT AT BROWN DEER, ESPECIALLY WHERE I WAS THE SUPERINTENDENT.

AND I ALSO ENCOURAGE MY STUDENTS TO SPEAK THEIR TRUTH.

SO AFTER HEARING FROM STUDENTS AND WITNESSING A LOT OF RACIST ACTS AGAINST MY STUDENTS WHEN I WAS SUPERINTENDENT, I SET UP A CALL TO ACTION.

ENOUGH WAS ENOUGH AND I WORKED TO DEVELOP A MULTISEQUENCED APPROACH TO FIGHT RACISM IN OUR SCHOOL.

SO I ASKED MY SCHOOL LEADERS TO JOIN ME AND WORK TO ELIMINATE THESE DISPARITIES.

BUT THIS IS A CONVERSATION THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN ALL ACROSS THE STATE AND ALL ACROSS OUR COUNTRY.

>> WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.

DEBORAH KERR, THANKS VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, FREDERICA.

>> PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN SPOKE ABOUT PUBLIC SCHOOLS THIS WEEK DURING HIS TOWN HALL APPEARANCE IN MILWAUKEE.

THE PRESIDENT SAID HE WANTS THE MAJORITY ON OF K-12 SCHOOLS FULLY OPEN BY THE END OF HIS FIRST 100 DAYS IN OFFICE.

HE ALSO SAID TEACHERS SHOULD BE MOVED UP IN THE HIERARCHY FOR VACCINATIONS.

AND HE SPOKE ABOUT AN ACCELERATED EFFORT FOR GETTING ALL AMERICANS VACCINATED.

>> WE CAME INTO AWSSMENTS THERE OFFICE, THERE WERE ONLY 50 MILLION DOSES AVAILABLE.

BY THE END OF JULY WE'LL HAVE OVER 600 MILLION DOSES, ENOUGH TO VACCINATE EVERY AMERICAN.

>> SINCE THE START OF THE PANDEMIC, LABS AGAIN SEQUENCING TEST SAMPLES TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE VIEFERS WAS MOVING THROUGH COMMUNITIES AND WISCONSIN IS ONE OF THE STATES LEADING THIS WORK.

NOW SEQUENCING LABS ARE DETECTING THE PRESENCE OF COVID-19 VARIANTS, INCLUDING THE MORE CONTAGIOUS STRAIN SHES B117, WHICH HAS NOW BEEN FOUND IN CITIES ACROSS WISCONSIN.

MARISA WOJCIK SAT DOWN WITH DR. PARAIC KENNY, A JEAN GENOME RESEARCHER WHO HAS BEEN SEQUENCING THE CORONAVIRUS FOR A LIFE WEBCAST.

>> A GENETIC SEQUENCING THE ONLY WAY TO DETECT A VARIANT?

>> IT'S THE BEST WAY.

WE AND OTHERS ARE WORKING ON SOME TECHNOLOGIES AND DIAGNOSTIC APPROACHES THAT SHOULD PROVIDE MORE RAPID TURNAROUND THAN TESTING THE ENTIRE GENOME.

WE CAN TEST BY THEMSELVES WITHOUT NEEDING TO WORK OUT THE FULL 19,903 LETTERS.

BUT FOR NOW, GOLD STANDARD REALLY IS GENETIC TESTING.

>> AND NOW THAT WE KNOW IT'S IN COMMUNITIES IN WISCONSIN, DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE STATE, SHOULD WE ASSUME THAT IT IS MORE PREVALENT THAN EVEN WHAT HAS BEEN DETECTED SO FAR?

>> FROM WHAT WE'VE SEEN WITH THE INTRODUCTION OF THIS VIRUS TO FLORIDA AND CALIFORNIA, WE SEE THAT ONCE IT GETS A FOOTHOLD, IT CAN TAKE OFF VERY EFFICIENTLY.

SO IN FLORIDA AND CALIFORNIA, THIS B117 IS NOW COMPRISING UP TO 8% TO 10% OF CASES AND THAT'S DOUBLE ONINGING EVERY TEN DAYS.

SO IT CLEARLY IS A MORE TRANSMISSIBLE SUBSTRAIN AND IT'S ENTIRELY REASONABLE TO BELIEVE THAT THERE'S A LOT MORE OF IT IN WISCONSIN THAN IS CURRENTLY APPARENT THROUGH THE SEQUENCING DATA.

>> ARE WE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND IF THE B117 VARIANT, FOR EXAMPLE, IS MORE DANGEROUS OR LESS DANGEROUS THAN THE ORIGINAL NOVEL CORONAVIRUS THAT WE HAVE SEEN FOR THE LAST YEAR?

>> WHETHER IT'S ACTUALLY MORE DANGEROUS OR NOT ON AN INDIVIDUAL LEVEL IS STILL THE TOPIC OF A LOT OF DISCUSSION.

THERE'S SOME EVIDENCE THAT IT MAY BE AT LEAST MODERATELY MORE SEVERE.

THE BIGGEST RISK IS DOWN TO ITS LEVEL OF TRANSMISSIBILITY.

SO THERE'S A WHOLE LOT MORE OF THIS PARTICULAR STRAIN.

THIS STRAIN HAS MORE POTENTIAL FOR SPREAD.

SO EVEN IF IT IS JUST AS SEVERE OR NO MORE SEVERE THAN THE PREVIOUS STRAINS OF THE CORONAVIRUS, THE FACT THAT IT CAN INFECT MORE PEOPLE IS SIGNIFICANTLY -- IS GOING TO MAKE IT MORE DANGEROUS BECAUSE THE MORE PEOPLE YOU INFECT, THE MORE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GET SIGNIFICANTLY ILL. >> COULD SOMEONE WHO HAS ALREADY BEEN INFECTED WITH THE CORONAVIRUS, THE NOVEL CORONAVIRUS, PERHAPS LAST YEAR, ARE THEY AT RISK FOR SPREADING A NEW VARIANT?

>> THERE ARE CERTAINLY SOME CONCERNS RIGHT NOW ABOUT THE POTENTIAL FOR REINFECTION WITH SOME OF THESE EMERGING SUBSTRAINS.

WHILE IT'S BEEN GOOD TO SEE THAT MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD COVID-19 SO FAR DO SEEM TO HAVE AN ENDURING PROTECTION THAT'S LASTING AT LEAST THIS LONG AND NONE OF US KNOW HOW LONG IT WILL LAST WITHOUT VACCINATION, THERE IS A CONCERN WITH SOME OF THESE IMMUNE ESCAPE VARIANTS THAT IT MAY BECOME A PROBLEM.

>> WE SPOKE EARLIER ABOUT HOW THE BUDGET WOULD ROLL BACK SOME OF THE PROVISIONS OF ACT 10.

THAT LAW WENT INTO EFFECT TEN YEARS AGO.

IN THE MIDST OF ITS PASSAGE, TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PROCESS PROTESTERS CONVERGED ON THE STATE CAPITOL, MANY OF THEM TEACHERS.

THE CROWDS WERE LIKE NOTHING SEEN BEFORE, THE LARGEST DEMONSTRATION IN STATE HISTORY.

IMAGINE PERSON THE PERSON IN CHARGE OF SAFETY AT THE STATE CAPITOL DURING THAT.

OUR NEXT GUEST WAS THAT PERSON.

FORMER CAPITOL POLICE CHIEF CHARLES TUBBS, CURRENTLY DIRECT TO HAVE OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT FOR DANE COUNTY.

THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> SO TAKE US BACK TO THOSE 50 DAYS OF DEMONSTRATIONS, 30 OF THEM YOU DESCRIBE AS INTENSE.

HOW DAUNTING WAS IT TO BE IN CHARGE OF PUBLIC SAFETY AND PROTECTION OF THE CAPITOL?

>> IT WAS A VERY HUMBLING EXPERIENCE.

I MENTIONED EARLIER TO YOU THAT I WAS IN WASHINGTON D.C. AREA DURING 9/11, AND THAT WAS A VERY HUMBLING BUT REWARDING EXPERIENCE.

I LEARNED SO MUCH ON HOW TO PROTECT THE COUNTRY AND WHAT WAS TAKING PLACE AT THAT TIME.

MADE ME GROW UP EVEN MORE.

THE CAPITOL PROTESTS, ACT 10 WAS ANOTHER MAJOR EVENT IN MY LIFE, AND I KNEW I HAD TO ACT RESPONSIBLE AND BE VERY CAPABLE OF MAKING THINGS HAPPEN IN A POSITIVE LIGHT TO SAVE LIVES, REDUCE INJURIES AND REDUCE THE DAMAGE TO PROPERTY, WHILE ALLOWING THE GOVERNMENT TO CONTINUE TO DO THEIR WORK AND THE DISNS CITIZENS TO EXECUTE THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

>> YOU SAID YOU MADE A CONSCIOUS DECISION NOT TO USE RIOT GEAR OR PEPPER SPRAY.

WHY THAT DECISION?

>> I'M A KID OF THE '60s, AND I WATCHED SOMETIMES -- MAINLY WATCHED AND WATCHED HOW THAT HAPPENED AND HOW UNFORTUNATELY THE USE OF BATONS AND AT TIMES TEAR GAS AND ALL THOSE TYPE OF TECHNIQUES WITHOUT THE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE WITH PEOPLE CREATED A REAL TRAGEDY SITUATION WITH PEOPLE INVOLVED.

IN CONFIDENCE, COMPLETE CHAOS AND TURMOIL.

PEOPLE WERE INJURED, LOST THEIR LIVES, WENT TO JAIL, HAD A TREMENDOUS IMPACT ON PUBLIC SAFETY AND CITIZENS.

>> SO WHAT DID YOU DO INSTEAD THAT RESULTED IN FEWER THAN 20 ARRESTS DURING THOSE DAYS AND ONE SERIOUSLY-INJURED OFFICER?

>> WHAT I IMMEDIATELY LEARNED GOVERNOR WALKER'S PLAN I BELIEVE WAS ON A THURSDAY AFTERNOON AND HE HAD CALLED HIS CABINET TOGETHER AND INVITED ME TO THE MEETING.

HE MADE THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF WHAT HE HAD PLANNED TO DO, AND MOVING FORWARD I KNEW IMMEDIATELY THIS WAS GOING TO CREATE A REACTION WITH CITIZENS IN DANE COUNTY AND THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

I JUST DIDN'T KNOW HOW BIG.

I KNEW IT WOULD BE LARGE, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW HOW LARGE IT WAS GOING TO BE.

SO I PREPARED FOR THE ABSOLUTE WORST AND PRAYED FOR THE BEST AND I BEGAN MEETING IMMEDIATELY WITH -- BECAUSE THE WORD GOT OUT BEFORE I EVEN LEFT THE OFFICE, WELL, THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE THIS MASSIVE CHANGE IN COLLECTIVE BARGAINING, ET CETERA.

SO I HAD TO IN ABOUT TWO AND A HALF DAYS MEET WITH UNIONS, SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS, LAW ENFORCEMENT, ELECTED OFFICIALS, EVERYONE INVOLVED TO MAKE SURE WE WERE ABLE TO POLICE THE SITUATION WITHOUT LETING IT GET OUT OF HAND.

AND, AGAIN, AS I SAID EARLIER, LOSING LIVES, PROPERTY DAMAGE AND INJURIES TO MANY PEOPLE.

>> WAS THERE POLITICAL PRESSURE TO, QUOTE, CRACK SOME HEADS?

>> THERE WAS POLITICAL PRESSURE FROM SOME OF THE ELECTED OFFICIALS THAT I WAS NOT DOING ENOUGH, I NEEDED TO REMOVE THE PEOPLE FROM THE BUILDING, BASICALLY I WAS IN A SENSE BEING TOO SOFT AND I NEEDED TO TAKE CONTROL OF THE BUILDING.

AT ONE POINT, I BELIEVE SOME OF THE ELECTED OFFICIALS WANT TO BE REMOVED.

>> DO YOU THINK THAT YOUR TACTICS THAT KIND OF DIRECT DIALOGUE AND EVEN I UNDERSTAND HAVING PROTESTERS KIND OF POLICE THEMSELVES WITH THESE KIND OF PROTEST MARSHALLS AND THAT KIND OF THING, DO YOU THINK THAT THOSE TACTICS ON YOUR PART HAVE IMPLICATIONS ON DISCUSSIONS NOW AROUND POLICE REFORM?

>> YES, I DO.

AND YOU HAVE SPOKEN WITH A NUMBER OF AGENCIES ABOUT THE TACTICS THAT WE USED AND HOW THEY WORKED SO WELL AND WHY THEY WORKED SO WELL.

AND I BELIEVE IN TODAY'S SOCIETY WHAT WE'RE FACING WITH SOMEONE WHO HAS A NUMBER OF ISSUES FACING THIS COUNTRY RIGHT NOW, IT IS THE TECHNIQUE THAT MUST BE USED TO REGAIN ORDER AND ALSO ALLOW PEOPLE THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPRESS THEMSELVES.

>> SO WITH ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT, DO YOU THINK SUCH DEMONSTRATIONS COULD, DESPITE DELIBERATE DE-ESCALATION MEASURES ON YOUR PART AND THE PART OF OTHER OFFICERS THAT YOU COMMANDED, DO YOU THINK THIS COULD BE MANAGED THE SAME WAY IN TODAY'S CLIMATE, ESPECIALLY AFTER WHAT WE SAW JANUARY 6 IN THE NATION'S CAPITOL?

>> I DO.

I WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M NOT COMPARING THE TWO INCIDENTS, BECAUSE THEY WERE TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY THERE TO REALLY GET OUT AND REACHED OUT TO THE PEOPLE AND BRING ABOUT WHAT I THOUGHT A POSITIVE CHANGE ON HOW THEY WERE GOING TO BE ABLE TO EXECUTE THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

LINES OF COMMUNICATION MIGHT BE OPEN AND REMAIN DIFFICULT NO -- REMAIN DIFFICULT NO MATTER HOW DIFFICULT THINGS GET.

IF YOU CLOSE OFF THE LINES OF COMMUNICATION, YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE AND LOSE BIG TIME.

>> WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.

CHARLES TUBBS, THANKS VERY MUCH AND THANKS FOR YOUR RECOLLECTIONS.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.

NEXT WEEK, STATE SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION CANDIDATE JILL UNDERLY WILL BE HERE.

LOOK FOR COMPLETE CANDIDATE INFORMATION ON WISCONSIN VOAFT.ORG.

I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS WISCONSIN.