>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL PRODUCTION.

>> YOU'RE WATCHING "HERE AND NOW" 2024 ELECTION COVERAGE.

EXPERT RECOMMENDATIONS FOR STATE VOTING MAPS ARE IN.

AND THE WISCONSIN SUPREME COURT WILL HAVE THE FINAL WORD ON WHICH MAPS BECOME LAW.

I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.

TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW," A CLOSER LOOK AT THE DISTRICT LINES TO BE VOTED ON BY THE SUPREME COURT.

THEN, HOW A SMALL COMMUNITY IS ADAPTING TO A SUDDEN INFLUX OF MIGRANTS, AND THE REALITY OF POLICIES AT THE SOUTHERN BORDER.

AND FINALLY, ANALYSIS ON THE LONG-TERM IMPACTS OF WANING ACCESS TO RURAL HIGHER EDUCATION.

IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR FEBRUARY 2.

>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR >> WISCONSIN IS ON COURSE TO HAVE NEW VOTING MAPS IN SHORT ORDER.

LATE THIS WEEK, CONSULTANTS HIRED BY THE STATE SUPREME COURT REJECTED TWO OF THE MAP SUBMISSIONS AS BEING PARTISAN GERRYMANDERS AND SAID THE REST COULDN'T MEET MUSTER WITH THE HIGH COURT.

FOR DETAILS ON THIS, WE TURN TO ZAC SCHULTZ AT THE CAPITOL.

SO WHICH TWO MAPS REPRESENT PARTISAN GERRYMANDER, ACCORDING TO THESE CONSULTANTS?

>> THE FEST ONE SHOULDN'T COME AS ANY SURPRISE AND THAT IS THE REPUBLICAN MAP, THE REPUBLICAN LEGISLATORS' MAP, WHICH IS THE MOST CLOSELY RELATED TO THE CURRENT MAPS THAT ARE IN PLACE THAT THE SUPREME COURT ALREADY SAID WERE GERRYMANDERED.

THE OTHER MAPS ARE FROM WHAT'S CALLED THE JOHNSON INTERVENORS, WHICH ARE MAPS DRAWN BY THE WISCONSIN INSTITUTE FOR LAW AND LIBERTY, OR W.I.L., A CONSERVATIVE LAW FIRM.

THEE HEDGED THEIR BEATS BETWEEN SOME OF THE MAPS DRAWN BY THE MORE LIBERAL OR DEMOCRATIC GROUPS IN THIS CASE AND THEIR LEGISLATORS' MAPS, BUT STILL PRETTY MUCH MADE FOR A SLAM DUNK MAJORITY FOR THEIR MAPS IF ADOPTED.

>> IT'S SOMETHING CONSULTANTS CALLED STEALTH GERRYMANDERING, I THINK, IN THEIR REPORT?

>> YEAH.

AND THAT'S BECAUSE THE W.I.L.

MAPS MET ALL OF THE CRITERIA THAT ARE DETERMINED BY THE STATE CONSTITUTION.

THEY'RE CONTIGUOUS, THEY KEPT MOST OF THE MUNICIPAL COMMUNITIES OF INTEREST TOGETHER, THE POPULATION, ALL THOSE THINGS WERE THERE, BUT THEY STILL WERE DRAWN IN A WAY THAT WERE PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEED REPUBLICAN MAJORITIES AND, IN SOME CASES, SUPER MAJORITIES.

>> AND SO THE CONSULTANT'S VIEW ON THIS IS NOT SETTING WELL WITH REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS, SAYING THEIR MAPS WERE REJECTED BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T PRODUCE DEMOCRATIC OUTCOMES THAT THIS COURT WANTS.

>> WELL, I THINK THEY'RE SPEAKING TO THEIR AUDIENCE, THEIR BASE, THEIR DONORS AND POSSIBLY HOPING TO SPEAK TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT WHERE THEY'RE HOPING THIS APPEAL WILL BE HEARD AND THEN ONE OF THEIR TWO PREFERRED MAPS WOULD ULTIMATELY BE CHOSEN BY THE HIGH COURT IN THE LAND.

BUT THE HONEST REALITY IS THAT EVERY INDEPENDENT ANALYST, EVERY EXPERT, MOST PEOPLE THAT UNDERSTAND THIS ISSUE HAVE LOOKED AT THESE MAPS FOR THE LAST DECADES PLUS IS THEY FAVOR REPUBLICANS.

QUESTION.

WAS THE TWO-THIRDS SUPERMAJORITY IN THE SENATE ENTIRELY A GERRYMANDER?

PROBABLY NOT, WHAT THE EXPERTS SAY IS THAT BUT A SOLID PORTION OF THAT IS BECAUSE OF THE GERRYMANDER THAT WAS DRAWN INTO FAVOR REPUBLICANS IN DISTRICTS THAT WERE GUARANTEED TO ELECT THEM.

>> SO AS TO THE OTHER FOUR MAPS FROM DEMOCRATS AND OTHERS, THE EXPERTS DEEMED THEM NOT PARTISAN GERRYMANDERS BUT IS NOT NECESSARILY PERFECT, EITHER.

>> Reporter: THAT'S RIGHT.

THERE WERE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN ALL FOUR MAPS.

THE EXPERTS, MOST OF THEIR 25-PAGE REVIEW WAS ACTUALLY SCORING IN THEIR ANALYSIS OF ALL THE DIFFERENT MAPS ACCORDING TO A NUMBER OF RHETORIC RUBRICS, MOSTLY LOOK AT PARTISAN FAIRNESS, WHICH IS KIND OF THE NEW STANDARD THAT THIS COURT HAS INTRODUCED FOR THIS PROCESS TO SAY IN A 50/50 TOP OF THE BALLOT STATE, WHICH IS WHAT WISCONSIN IS, WHAT WOULD BE THE MOST FAIR OUTCOME AND HOW WOULD THAT BE REPRESENTED BY HOW THE DISTRICTS LOOKED AND THEY SAID THAT ACCORDING TO SOME ANALYSIS OPTED ONE, LOOKING AT ALL THE OLD ELECTIONS FOR THE PAST SEVEN YEARS, THIS MAP WAS BETTER, THAT MAP WAS A LITTLE BETTER OVER HERE, SO DIFFERENT SCORES FOR DIFFERENT AREAS BUT OTHERWISE ROUGHLY THE SAME, NONE OF THEM STOOD OUT WELL AND ABOVE TO THE OTHERS, SO THEY SAID THE SUPREME COURT CAN PICK FROM THEM IF THEY WANT.

>> SO THE CONSULTANTS ALSO REJECTED REPUBLICAN CLAIMS THAT MAJORITIES IN THE LEGISLATURE ARE DUE TO DEMOCRATIC SUPPORT BEING CONCENTRATED IN CITIES WHILE THE G.O.P.

HAS THIS BROADER SUPPORT OUT-STATE.

THE CONSULTANT SAT SAID GEOGRAPS NOT DESTINY.

UNPACK THIS FOR US.

>> THIS IS SOMETHING WE'VE HEARD OVER AND OVER, AND WE'VE REPORTED ON FOR YEARS.

THERE IS A GEOGRAPHIC BIAS FOR REPUBLICANS IN WISCONSIN.

THE QUESTION IS, HOW MUCH.

IN A NEUTRAL, FAIR MAP, WE'VE HAD EXPERTS FROM THE UW SAY THAT REPUBLICANS WOULD WIN SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 50 AND 55 SEATS IN AN AVERAGE YEAR IF THE MAPS WERE ALL DRAWN FAIRLY, AND IN THIS CASE, THE EXPERT SAID THAT THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT THEY SHOULD BE LOOKING AT BUT YOU CAN MAKE FAIR MAPS WITHOUT HAVING EVERYTHING TILTED ONE WAY, SO IT SHOULDN'T GIVE THE REPUBLICANS 66 SEATS IN T IN THE ASSEMBLY, T MAYBE 50, WHICH IS JOE BIDEN AS IT HAPPENS IN THIS BODY.

>> SO WHAT HAPPENS NOW?

>> THERE IS ONE WEEK FOR THE PLAINTIFFS TO FILE THEIR RESPONSES TO THE EXPERTS.

THAT'S DUE NEXT THURSDAY.

AFTER THAT, THE COURT COULD ASK THE EXPERTS TO DRAW OR ADJUST.

THE EXPERTS DID NOT SUBMIT THEIR OWN VERSION SAYING THAT THE FOUR MAPS THAT THEY PROPOSED THAT WERE IN THERE WERE GOOD ENOUGH BUT THEY CAN MAKE ADJUSTMENTS IF THE COURT WANTS.

THE COURT COULD NARROW IT DOWN, IT COULD MAKE A DECISION.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THAT.

>> THE CONSULTANTS SAID THEY COULD TAKE A CRACK AT MAKING THESE MAPS IN SHORT ORDER.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

ZAC SCHULTZ, THANKS VERY MUCH.

>> THANKS, FRED.

>> IN OTHER NEWS, WHITEWATER MADE NATIONAL HEADLINES LAST MONTH AFTER A BREITBART NEWS STORY CLAIMED A THOUSAND MIGRANTS HAD BEEN DROPPED ON THE CITY.

BUT OFFICIALS SAY THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS MUCH MORE COMPLICATED.

DENZIN, HAS MORE.

>> OUR CASE HERE IN WHITEWATER IS VERY UNIQUE.

>> I STARTED NOTICING THE WAY THE MIGRANTS PROBABLY -- IT WAS DURING THE PANDEMIC.

>> WHITE IMMIGRANTS IMMIGRATE TO PLACES IS BECAUSE AS HUMANS, WE ARE LOOKING FOR A BETTER LIFE.

>> Reporter: WHITEWATER HAS SEEN A WAVE OF MIGRATION FROM THE SOUTHERN BORDER WITH MEXICO OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS, BUT THIS CASE IS NOT LIKE RECENT HEADLINES WHERE IMMIGRANTS ARE BEING CHARTERED TO NORTHERN COMMUNITIES LIKE CHICAGO.

>> I'VE HAD A LOT OF PEOPLE ASK, OKAY, WHERE ARE THE BUSES DROPPING PEOPLE OFF.

THAT'S NOT HAPPENING HERE.

>> IT WAS LIKE 50 AT FIRST AND THEN IT WAS LIKE ANOTHER 50 AND SO IT WASN'T LIKE A MASSIVE RUSH.

>> BUT NOW CITY OFFICIALS SUSPECT THAT THERE ARE ABOUT 800 TO A THOUSAND MIGRANTS FROM NICARAGUA AND VENEZUELA IN WHITEWATER.

CITY.

THE 2020 CENSUS INDICATED THAT ABOUT 15,000 PEOPLE LIVE THERE.

NEARLY 8 TO 10,000 OF THOSE ARE STUDENTS AT THE UNIVERSITY.

>> THE EARLIEST WE REALLY NOTICED IT WAS, I WOULD SAY, EARLY 2022.

>> Reporter: DAN MEYER IS THE CHIEF OF POLICE FOR THE CITY OF WHITEWATER.

>> WE HAD A FAMILY THAT WAS FOUND IN A 10X10 SHED DURING THE WINTERTIME, SO JANUARY OF 2022, SO VERY COLD TEMPERATURES.

>> Reporter: HE SAYS THAT BEFORE THEY GOT TO WISCONSIN, MANY OF THE MIGRANTS LIKELY HAD CONTACT WITH BORDER PATROL.

>> THE WAY THE BORDER POLICIES WORK CURRENTLY IS THAT WHEN SOMEONE CROSSES, CUSTOMS IDENTIFIES THEM AND ASKS THEM IF THERE IS A SPONSOR FAMILY THAT CAN TAKE THEM IN.

SO IF SOMEBODY IS ABLE TO IDENTIFY THAT SPONSOR FAMILY AND THEY CAN CONFIRM THAT, THEY'RE ESSENTIALLY PROVIDED TRANSPORTATION TO THAT SPONSOR FAMILY.

THE U.S., THEY'RE TECHNICALLY IN DEPORTATION PROCEEDINGS, BUT WITH A SPONSOR FAMILY, THEY'RE RELEASED UNTIL THEIR FIRST COURT DATE.

SEVERAL YEARS IN THE FUTURE DUE TO A HUGE BACKLOG OF CASES.

THEY CAN THEN SPONSOR OTHER FAMILIES THAT THEY KNOW.

THE RESULT IS A PYRAMID EFFECT WHERE MANY FAMILIES FROM A SMALL AREA IN CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA HAVE COME TO WHITEWATER.

>> BECAUSE THEY'RE TRYING TO GET OUT OF REALLY UNSAFE SITUATIONS AND THERE'S WORK TO BE HAD.

THERE'S SPICE FACTORIES, SOD FARMS, CHICKEN FARMS.

>> Reporter: BRIENNE IS A MEMBER OF THE WHITEWATER COUNCIL.

NICARAGUA AND VENEZUELA ARE IN VIOLENT UPHEAVAL, DRIVING THOSE PEOPLE INTO AMERICA.

>> WHAT THEY WERE MOST CONCERNED ABOUT IS IF THEY WALK DOWN THE STREET, THEY HAD TO HAVE A STACK OF CASH IN THEIR POCKETS BECAUSE THEY WERE ALWAYS HAVING TO PAY SOMEBODY OFF TO STAY SAFE.

>> Reporter: THEIR LEGAL LIMBO MAKES LIFE EXTREMELY DIFFICULT.

>> AND MOST OF THEM ARE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE FACT THAT THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO WORK.

>> Reporter: BROWN HAS TALKED TO MANY MIGRANTS WHO ARE NOT ALLOWED TO WORK FOR THE FIRST HUNDRED DAYS THAT THEY ARE IN AMERICA.

ARE FOLLOWING THE RULES AND ONLY ONE PERSON IS WORKING AND EVERYBODY ELSE IS NOT.

>> WE ARE GOING TO WORK TO MAKE MONEY AND TO HELP OUR FAMILIES.

>> JORGE IS AN IMMIGRANT ADVOCATE AND A FIRST GENERATION IMMIGRANT FROM MEXICO.

HE HAS LIVED IN WHITEWATER FOR NEARLY 30 YEARS.

>> I LIKE TO PROMOTE EDUCATION.

I LIKE TO HELP OTHERS HELP SPEAK ENGLISH.

FACE NUMEROUS CHALLENGES WHEN THEY GET TO WISCONSIN: GETTING A JOB, SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE, AND GETTING TRANSPORTATION IS ALL TOP OF MIND.

>> I KNOW HOW IT FEELS TO BE IN THIS COUNTRY AND NOT KNOWING THE LANGUAGE.

IT IS HARD.

EVERY SINGLE HUMAN HAS A RIGHT TO SUCCEED, WHATEVER YOU ARE, YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT.

>> Reporter: BUT FINDING A JOB IN RURAL WISCONSIN REQUIRES A CAR, AND IN WISCONSIN, UNDOCUMENTED MIGRANTS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO EARN A DRIVER'S LICENSE.

TRANSPORTATION.

HAVE IS THE TAXI, THE TAXI ONLY IS AVAILABLE HERE IN WHITEWATER FROM 7:30 IN THE MORNING UNTIL 5:00.

ISSUE.

PEOPLE ESPECIALLY DRIVING IN SNOW FOR THE FIRST TIME, THAT IS NOT A GOOD SITUATION.

>> IT'S SAFER FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE DRIVER'S LICENSES.

CLASSES, THEY HAVE TO TAKE A TEST TO MAKE SURE THEY CAN DRIVE, THEY HAVE TO HAVE INSURANCE.

YEARS, BUT TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, I DIDN'T LEARN TO DRIVE UNTIL I CAME TO THE UNITED STATES.

I LEARNED WHAT THE YELLOW LINE MEANS, I LEARNED WHAT THE WHITE LINE MEANS, I KNOW WHAT THE BROKEN LINE MEANS.

I LEARNED HOW I CAN PASS A CAR.

I DID NOT KNOW THAT IN MY COUNTRY.

HERE AND TAKE ALL OF THE TESTING, THE WRITTEN TEST, PHYSICALLY DO THE DRIVING TEST SO THAT THEY ARE SAFER AS A DRIVER, I'M ALL FOR THAT.

>> NEARLY 20 STATES ALREADY ALLOW UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS TO ON TIN A DRIVER'S LICENSE, INCLUDING ILLINOIS.

>> I THINK THAT IT'S SOMETHING THAT THEY REALLY NEED TO LOOK HARDER AT IN OUR LEGISLATURE, IS JUST GIVING THOSE RIGHTS BACK SO THAT EVERYBODY IS SAFER.

>> ALONG WITH DRIVER'S LICENSES, CITY OFFICIALS SAY MORE NEEDS TO BE DONE TO HELP WHITEWATER'S NEWEST IMMIGRANT POPULATION.

>> I THINK WE HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO HELP EACH OTHER.

I THINK WE HAVE TO LEARN THAT WE ARE HUMANS, WE ARE IMMIGRANTS, AND WE HAVE FEELINGS.

>> FOR "HERE AND NOW," I'M NATHAN DENZIN IN WHITEWATER.

>> NEXT WEEK, A LOOK AT WHAT THE COMMUNITY IS DOING TO HELP THEIR NEW NEIGHBORS AND WHY CITY OFFICIALS ARE ASKING THE STATE AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR HELP.

THE MIGRANTS ARRIVING IN WHITEWATER REPRESENT A TINY FRACTION OF PEOPLE CROSSING THE SOUTHERN BORDER INTO THE U.S..

IN DECEMBER ALONE, SOME 300,000 PEOPLE FROM CENTRAL AMERICA AND ELSEWHERE REPORTEDLY DID SO.

2-1/2 MILLION PEOPLE IN 2023.

THE CRUSH OF PEOPLE CROSSING THE BORDER IS DESCRIBED AS A HUMANITARIAN CRISIS.

MEANWHILE, THREE MILLION PENDING ASYLUM CASE BEFORE U.S. IMMIGRATION COURTS MEANS MIGRANTS GAINING ENTRY AT THE BORDER WAIT YEARS FOR THEIR HEARINGS, ALL THE WHILE LIVING AND, AFTER A TIME, LEGALLY WORKING IN THE U.S.. ERIN BARBATO IS THE DIRECTOR OF THE IMMIGRANT JUSTICE CLINIC AT THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN LAW SCHOOL.

AND SHE JOINS US NOW.

THANKS A LOT FOR BEING HERE.

>> Interview: THANK YOU FOR IN TIJUANA.

>> Interview: YES, IN THE END OF DECEMBER TO TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT WHAT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING ON THE BORDER AND THE POLICIES THAT ARE IN PLACE THERE RIGHT NOW THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY AND LOOKING AT HOW PEOPLE CAN ACCESS OUR ASYLUM SYSTEM AND THE NEW POLICIES THAT ARE IN PLACE.

>> WHAT DID YOU SEE AT THE BORDER?

>> SO WE VISIT A NUMBER OF SHELTERS THAT WERE HOUSING PEOPLE WHO ARE IN TRANSIT ATTEMPTING TO SEEK REFUGE IN THE U.S.. AND IN ORDER TO DO SO RIGHT NOW, THEY NEED TO APPLY FOR AN APPOINTMENT WITH AN APP.

AND MANY OF THE PEOPLE WE MET WITH HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR MONTHS IN ORDER TO ACCESS THAT APPOINTMENT, BUT OUR GOVERNMENT IS ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO GO THROUGH A REGULAR ROUTE TO ENTER THE U.S. TO SEEK PROTECTION, BUT IT IS CAUSING A LOT OF PEOPLE TO WAIT VERY LONG IN MEXICO BEFORE THEY CAN EVEN ACCESS OUR ASYLUM SYSTEM.

PEOPLE WANTING TO GAIN ENTRY INTO THE U.S.?

>> I MEAN, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

LIVE IN A GREAT COUNTRY AND PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING ALL OVER THE WORLD AND SO IF WE WERE LIVING IN A COUNTRY WHERE NO ONE WANTED TO COME, THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE AN ISSUE, BUT WE'RE LIVING IN A COUNTRY WHERE WE DO HAVE OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE.

AND PEOPLES' LICE ARE LIVES ARER IN OTHER COUNTRIES.

>> WHAT POLICIES HAVE CHANGED ALLOWING THIS MORE RECENT CRUSH?

>> I'M NOT SURE IF THE POLICIES HAVE CHANGED.

IT'S DIFFICULT IN THE PAST FEW YEARS COMPARE NUMBER CONSIDERING THAT THE BORDER WAS CLOSED UNDER TITLE 42 FOR SO LONG AND NOW THAT THE BORDER IS -- IT'S NOT OPEN, BUT IT'S FUNCTIONING UNDER WHAT'S CALLED TITLE 8, WHICH IS A LAW THAT GOM GOVERNS OUR ASYLM PROCESS ALLOWING PEOPLE TO SEEK ASYLUM WHICH THEY CAN'T DO UNLESS THEY HAVE A CV APP 1 APPOINTMENT.

ONE OTHER CHANGE THAT POTENTIALLY HAS SOME VALIDITY IN HELPING PEOPLE ACCESS THE ASYLUM SYSTEM IN A MORE REGULAR MANNER IS THE OPENING OF THESE MOBILE OFFICES IN COLOMBIA, GUATEMALA AND COSTA RICA, AND WILL ALLOW PEOPLE WITH STRONG CASES TO APPLY FOR REFUGEE EFSTATHIOS THERE AND THEN FLY TO THE U.S. AND SO IT COULD TAKE SOME PRESSURE OFF THE BORDER AS WELL AS OUR ASYLUM SYSTEM.

>> MEANWHILE, THERE'S SO MUCH DISCUSSION AROU AROUND THE AND E NUMBERS OF PEOPLE CROSSING INTO THE UNITED STATES.

WHAT HAPPENS THROUGH SOME EXECUTIVE OR LEGISLATIVE ACTION THE BORDERS CLOSE?

IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE?

>> IT SEEMS THAT IT IS POSSIBLY, POTENTIALLY WHETHER OUR PRESIDENT HAS THE ABILITY UNDER THE LAWS TO CLOSE THE BORDER I THINK IS A QUESTION THAT WILL BE LITIGATED IN COURT.

OUR LAWS SAY THAT PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO SEEK ASYLUM IN THE U.S. AS WELL AS THE BORDER IF THEY HAVE AN EMPLOYMENT VISA OR EVEN A VISITOR VISA TO VISIT A FAMILY.

CONSEQUENCES ON SEPARATING FAMILIES AND ALSO PUTTING MORE PEOPLE IN DANGER, BUT THAT MAY HAPPEN.

>> SHORT OF CLOSING THE BORDER, DOES IT SEEM LIKELY THAT HIGHLY RESTRICTIVE LAWS WILL BE PUT IN PLACE AT THIS TIME?

>> I KNOW THAT THEY'VE BEEN DISCUSSED.

WORKED BEFORE.

MORE DETERRENTS, MORE ENFORCEMENT DOESN'T SEEM TO DETER PEOPLE TO NECESSARILY COME FROM THE U.S. AND I THINK THERE MIGHT BE A BETTER WAY TO LOOK AT A MORE HUMANITARIAN SOLUTION.

>> WHY DO PEOPLE WAIT SO LONG TO HAVE THEIR CASES HEARD?

>> THE BACKLOG WITHIN OUR ADMINISTRATIVE LAW SYSTEM IN THE IMMIGRATION COURTS IS -- IT'S VERY LONG.

AND SO PEOPLE, EVEN WITH THE STRONGEST ASYLUM CASES, ARE WAITING YEARS IN ORDER TO ACCESS THE BENEFITS THAT THEY ARE ENTITLED TO UNDER OUR LAWS, AND SO IT MAKES THE SYSTEM VERY DIFFICULT TO MANAGE.

PEOPLE MAY MISS THEIR COURT HEARINGS BECAUSE THE COURT HEARINGS GET CHANGED ALL OF THE TIME AND PEOPLE DON'T HAVE AN ATTORNEY WHEN THEY'RE IN THE PROCESS UNLESS THEY CAN AFFORD ONE OR FIND A PRO BONO ONE.

IT'S A VERY DIFFICULT SYSTEM TO NAVIGATE AND IT'S NOT GOING QUIBBLE FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE ELIGIBLE QUICKLY FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE ELIGIBLE.

>> ONCE THEY GET TO THAT HEARING, HOW LIKELY IS IT THAT PEOPLE SEEKING ASYLUM WILL BE GRANTED IT?

>> YOU KNOW, THE PERCENTAGES DIFFER WHERE YOU'RE IN THE U.S..

THE NUMBERS -- THE JUDGES' PERCENTAGES OF APPROVAL ARE AVAILABLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

SO IT'S HARD TO SAY EXACTLY, BUT IT'S DIFFICULT.

IT'S NOT -- THE PERCENTAGE IS NOT HIGH FOR THE PEOPLE THAT RECEIVE ASYLUM.

IF YOU'RE REPRESENTED BY AN ATTORNEY, YOU'RE MORE LIKELY TO GET ASYLUM BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHAT THE LAW IS, WHAT THE JUDGE IS LOOKING FOR BASED ON YOUR STORY, BUT IT'S A VERY COMPLICATED, DIFFICULT PROCESS AND PEOPLE DO NOT JUST -- AREN'T JUST GIVEN PAPERS.

IT TAKES YEARS.

IT TAKES MONTHS TO PREPARE.

IT'S A VERY DIFFICULT PROCESS.

>> MEANWHILE, PEOPLE WHO ARE AWAITING THAT HEARING, THEY CAN GET AUTHORIZATION TO WORK LEGALLY?

>> YES.

NORMALLY, DEPENDING ON WHAT PROCESS THEY'RE GOING THROUGH, BUT YOU HAVE TO WAIT A NUMBER OF MONTHS, NORMALLY SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR, TO OBTAIN A WORK PERMIT TO WORK IN THE U.S.. ONCE YOU'RE HERE, YOU'RE HERE WITH AUTHORIZATION.

YOU CAN WORK, YOU CAN GET A DRIVER'S LICENSE, YOU CAN GET A SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER, BUT YOU'RE NOT HERE PERMANENTLY.

YOU CAN'T LEAVE THE U.S.. YOU DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO PUBLIC BENEFITS.

MAYBE IT'S FOR YEARS WAITING TO ACCESS THE ASYLUM SYSTEM, BUT THE WORK PERMIT DOES ALLOW PEOPLE TO PARTICIPATE IN SOCIETY AND SUPPORT THEMSELVES.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.

ERIN BARBATO, THANKS VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> IN EDUCATION NEWS, THE NUMBER OF UW CAMPUSES GOING TO ON-LINE CLASSES INSTEAD OF IN-PERSON INSTRUCTION HAS RISEN TO THREE.

AT WEST BEND, FOND du LAC AND MARINETTE.

ALTOGETHER.

THE MARINETTE CAMPUS IS PART OF UW GREEN BAY AND ITS CHANCELLOR, MICHAEL ALEXANDER, SAYS THE WRITING WAS ON THE WALL, WHAT WITH DECLINING ENROLLMENT AND COMPETITION FOR STUDENTS FROM THE NEARBY NORTHEAST WISCONSIN TECHNICAL COLLEGE.

>> THERE HAS TO BE ACCESS POINTS TO EDUCATION.

UW GREEN BAY HAS TO HAVE A PRESENCE IN WISCONSIN.

AND WE'RE INVESTING IN THE HIGH SCHOOLS THERE, TO BE CLEAR.

SO WITH OUR RISING PHOENIX PROGRAM AND EVERYTHING THAT WE DO, OUR STUDENTS PARTICULARLY WHO ARE INTERESTED IN COLLEGE TO GET THEM A HEAD START ON THE COLLEGE EXPERIENCE, TO BE ABLE TO OFFER CLASSES WITH THE HIGH SCHOOLS MIGHT NOT OTHERWISE BE ABLE TO OFFER WITH A SMALLER POPULATION IN THE HIGH SCHOOL.

RIGHT?

THESE ARE THINGS THAT WE ABSOLUTELY ARE TRYING TO DO TO HELP THAT REGION.

BECAUSE IT DOES MATTER.

RIGHT?

JUST THROW OUR HANDS UP.

WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO ACTUALLY MAKE IT BETTER AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE.

AND, AGAIN, I GO BACK TO THE NWTC ISSUE.

RIGHT?

WE THINK A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY ABOUT THIS SOMETIMES, BUT I WANT TO BE CLEAR, IF MOST OF THOSE CLASSES, IF NOT ALL OF THOSE CLASSES, THOSE 14 CLASSES, THERE'S A CLASS THAT'S PRETTY MUCH BEING IDENTICALLY TAUGHT BY NWTC.

EDUCATIONAL RESOURCES THIS AN AREA THAT IS HARDER TO SERVE BECAUSE OF HOW SPREAD OUT IT IS WITH THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT ARE THERE AND THE POPULATION?

YOU'VE GOT TO THINK DIFFERENTLY ABOUT HOW WE ACCESS -- GIVE ACCESS TO THOSE PEOPLE WHO WANT IT.

>> SO WHAT DOES THE CLOSURE OF TWO-YEAR CAMPUSES TO IN-PERSON CLASSES ACROSS WISCONSIN MEAN FOR ACCESS AND DEGREE ATTAINMENT FOR STUDENTS?

WE CHECK IN WITH THE NATIONAL NON-PARTISAN, NONPROFIT GROUP, NDRC, AND ITS RESEARCH ASSOCIATE IN THE AREA OF RURAL HIGHER EDUCATION, ALYSSA RATLEDGE.

THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> SO YOU HAVE WRITTEN THAT RURAL COLLEGES MATTER.

HOW SO?

>> RURAL COLLEGES ARE OFTEN THE ONLY ACCESS POINT TO HIGHER EDUCATION POSTSECONDARY TRAINING AND WORKFORCE TRAINING FOR PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN RURAL AREAS.

MANY PEOPLE LIVING IN RURAL AREAS ARE SIMPLY UNABLE TO MOVE AWAY TO GO TO COLLEGE AND THEY DO NOT ALWAYS HAVE ON-LINE ACCESS TO BE ABLE TO TAKE UP ON-LINE OFFERINGS.

SO THE ABILITY TO GO TO A COLLEGE AND, AGAIN, THESE MIGHT BE DISTANT, WE MIGHT BE TRAVELING 25, 50, EVEN A HUNDRED MILES TO COLLEGE, BUT IT STILL MEANS FOLKS CAN STAY WHERE THEY ARE METROPOLITAN WHERE THEIR FAMILIES ARE LOCATED.

WE'RE NEAR CLOSING CAMPUSES, IT CAN BE REALLY CHALLENGING FOR THOSE FOLKS TO CONTINUE TO ENGAGE OR TO ACHIEVE THE POSTSECONDARY CREDENTIAL THAT THEY'RE INTERESTED IN.

>> BECAUSE IN THE END, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY'RE IN EDUCATION DESERTS?

>> EDUCATION DESERTS HAVE A CHILLING EFFECT ON STUDENTS' LIKELIHOOD OF GOING TO COLLEGE, BUT ALSO IMPORTANTLY, THEY'RE LIKELIHOOD OF COMPLETELY COLLEGE.

NATIONALLY, MOST STUDENTS WHO ARE ATTENDING COLLEGE ARE DOING SO WITHIN ABOUT 25 MILES OF THEIR HOMES.

IT'S NOT REALLY THESE DAYS THE TRADITIONAL SENSE OF BEING 18 AND GOING OFF TO COLLEGE AND LIVING ON CAMPUS.

THESE DAYS, MOST COLLEGE STUDENTS ARE COMMUTING AND A LOT OF THEM PARTICULARLY IN THE TWO-YEAR SPACE ARE ATTENDING PART-TIME, AND TODAY'S COLLEGE STUDENT IS MUCH OLDER THAN THE TRADITIONAL CONCEPTION.

THOSE FOLKS ARE NOT GOING TO PICK UP AND LEAVE.

THEN HAVE FAMILIES AND JOBS AND RESPONSIBILITIES, NOR DO THEY WANT TO LEAVE.

OFTENTIMES WE HEAR THAT OUR RURAL FOLKS WANT TO STAY WHERE THEY ARE, CONTRIBUTE TO THE LOCAL COMMUNITY, AND HAVING WORKFORCE TRAINING OR A COLLEGE DEGREE CAN HELP THEM DO THAT IN A MEANINGFUL WAY IF THEY'RE ABLE TO ACCESS IT.

>> SO THE UW GREEN BAY TWO-YEAR BRANCH IN MARINETTE IS GOING MOSTLY ON-LINE.

DOESN'T THAT STILL AFFORD ACCESS TO RURAL STUDENTS?

>> THERE ARE MANY RURAL STUDENTS FOR WHOM ON-LINE ACCESS IS GOING TO BE ENOUGH.

AND WHEN WE THINK ABOUT OUR STUDENTS WHO ARE COMING OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL, HAVE GOOD ACCESS, HAVE GOOD KNOWLEDGE OF THE INTERNET, YES, THAT CAN BE A GOOD OPTION FOR THEM.

HOWEVER, THERE ARE GOING TO BE A LOT OF FOLKS THAT ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO TAKE THAT UP.

OFTENTIMES THAT'S OLDER FOLKS OR PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING IN VERY REMOTE AND RURAL FRINGE LOCATIONS WHERE THEY SIMPLY DON'T HAVE RELIABLE BROADBAND OR, IN SOME PLACES, DON'T HAVE INTERNET ACCESS AT ALL.

THERE ARE STILL PARTS OF THE COUNTRY WITHOUT RELIABLE INTERNET ACCESS AND MANY OF THE ON-LINE COURSE OFFERINGS ARE GOING TO REQUIRE A HIGH-SPEED CONNECTION OR THE ABILITY TO DOWNLOAD DOCUMENTS THAT JUST IS OUT OF REACH FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING REALLY OFF THE GRID.

>> SO WHAT ABOUT THE FACT THAT FOR THE CAMPUSES THAT ARE REALIGNING OR EVEN CLOSING, THE PROBLEM IS REALLY LOW ENROLLMENT, WHICH MAKES MAINTAINING THE WHOLE KIND OF CAMPUS INFRASTRUCTURE UNTENABLE.

DOESN'T IT MAKE SENSE TO BASICALLY DOWNSIZE FOR THE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM?

>> IT MAY MAKE SENSE IF THERE'S NOT A WILLINGNESS TO INVEST IN SUPPORTING THOSE CAMPUSES AT THE STATE LEVEL, YES, IT CAN BE AN UNTENABLE SITUATION WHEN YOU BUDGETS.

PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTION WE HAVE TO GRAPPLE WITH.

RIGHT?

ARE WE WILLING TO FUND PLACES THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE SEEING BUDGETS REALLY STRUGGLING TO MAKE ENDS MEET GIVEN THE REDUCTION IN STUDENTS AT THE COST OF POTENTIALLY SOME OF THOSE STUDENTS ARE GOING TO STRUGGLE WITH OR BE UNABLE TO COMPLETE A COLLEGE DEGREE, IF THAT LOCATION IS CLOSED.

>> SO A RECENT PAPER FROM THE FEDERAL RESERVE DISCUSSED HOW EMPLOYMENT AND MANUFACTURING IN THE AGRICULTURAL SECTORS HAS DECREASED IN WISCONSIN OVER THE PAST 10 YEARS.

WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T UPSKILLED FOR A CHANGED ECONOMY, ESPECIALLY IN RURAL PARTS OF OUR STATE?

>> YEAH.

IT IS AN ENORMOUS CHALLENGE.

IT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

WE SEE THIS IN A LOT OF PLACES ACROSS THE COUNTRY, WHERE NATURAL RESOURCES, ECONOMIES OR AGRICULTURAL ECONOMIES ARE CHANGING AND WE ALSO KNOW THAT IT IS HARDER THAN EVER FOR AN AGRICULTURAL WORKERS AND FAMILY FARMS TO MAKE ENDS MEET.

AT THE SAME TIME, THERE IS AN ADDITIONAL TECHNOLOGICAL COMPONENT TO MANY OF THOSE JOBS THAT COULD BE GREATLY BENEFITED FROM SOME ADDITIONAL WORKFORCE TRAINING OR TECHNOLOGICAL TRAINING.

WITHOUT ACCESS TO THAT TRAINING CAN MAKE IT REALLY DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO COMPETE IN A CHANGING ECONOMY.

THOSE FOLKS AND THOSE COMMUNITIES WHERE PEOPLE WANT TO STAY WHERE THEY ARE.

RIGHT?

THERE'S ALWAYS THE OPTION, OF COURSE, TO MOVE TO A BIG CITY, BUT THAT JUST CONTINUES TO HOLLOW OUR RURAL TOWNS AND COUNTIES OUT.

SO IF WE WANT TO KEEP THE SUSTAINABLE ECONOMY IN THESE PLACES, WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN SUPPORT FOLKS TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD AND COMPLETELY UP-SKILLING, WHETHER THAT'S A TRADITIONAL COLLEGE DEGREE OR A TRADE CERTIFICATE OR WORKFORCE TRAINING.

WE LEAVE IT THERE.

ALYSSA RATLEDGE, THANKS VERY MUCH.

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THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.

I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.

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