♪ >> Announcer: THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL PRODUCTION.

>>> WITHOUT LEGAL ABORTION IN WISCONSIN, PHYSICIANS ARE CAUGHT IN THE LEGAL CROSS FIRE, AND WITH THE BASIS UPON WHICH ROE WAS OVERTURNED, MANY ARE WORRIED GAY MARRIAGE COULD BE NEXT TO GO.

THE APPROACHING PRIMARY ELECTION HAS EVERYONE FROM CANDIDATES TO CLERKS WORKING OVERTIME.

I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.

TONIGHT ON ""HERE & NOW," TAMMY BALDWIN AND THE NEWLY THINNED DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY RACE, AND ANN JACOBS, AND ZAC SCHULTZ OUTLINES G.O.P.

CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL, AND AN ER DOC ON THE DANGEROUS LEGAL LIMBO OF MEDICAL ABORTIONS.

IT IS "HERE & NOW" FOR JULY 29.

>> Announcer: FUNDING FOR "HERE & NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS WISCONSIN.

♪ >>> THE NATION'S FIRST OPENLY GAY U.S.

SENATOR, TAMMY BALDWIN OF WISCONSIN, WORKS TO GET TEN REPUBLICAN SENATORS TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF THE RESPECT FOR MARRIAGE ACT, A BILL TO ESTABLISH THE RIGHT TO SAME-SEX AND INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE IN FEDERAL LAW.

SUCCESS PILOT THE MAJORITY OF THE PUBLIC SUPPORTING SAME-SEX MARRIAGE, INCLUDING REPUBLICANS, THE PUSH FOR PASSAGE OF THE BILL ENSHRINING THAT RIGHT COULD BE AN UPHILL CLIMB.

SENATOR TAMMY BALDWIN IS JOINING US NOW, AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> IT IS A PLEASURE TO JOIN YOU.

>> SENATOR, FIRST, WE WANT TO ASK YOU WITH THREE DROPPING OUT, WILL YOU NOW FORMALLY ENDORSE MANDELA BARNES?

>> I WILL BE TALKING WITH THE REMAINING CANDIDATES, AND, CERTAINLY, AS I'VE ALWAYS SAID, I'LL BE BEHIND THE NOMINEE.

IT APPEARS THAT WILL BE MANDELA BARNES, AND I'M VERY EXCITED ABOUT THE RACE AHEAD.

>> BECAUSE WHAT DOES THE THINNING OF THE FIELD SAY ABOUT HIS CANDIDACY IN YOUR MIND?

>> WELL, I THINK IT'S A STRONG CANDIDACY.

HE IS CERTAINLY RUNNING A VERY GOOD RACE AND GETTING ALL AROUND THE STATE, AND TALKING TO THE WISCONSIN VOTERS, BUT THE CONTRAST IN THE GENERAL ELECTION COULD NOT BE MORE CLEAR, AND MANDELA BARNES IS SOMEONE FOCUSED ON THE PEOPLE OF HIS DISTRICT.

WHEN HE USED TO BE IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE, AND NOW ALL OF THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF WISCONSIN AS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

>> SO AS TO THE RESPECT FOR WHAT WE INVITED YOU ON TO TALK ABOUT, WHY IS THIS BILL NEEDED NOW?

>> WELL, IN THE WAKE OF THE SUPREME COURT OVERTURNING ROE V. WADE, IT HAS IM IMPLICATED A NUR OF OTHER CASES THAT THE COURT HAS DECIDED ON SIMILAR GROUNDS.

WHETHER THAT'S ACCESS TO CONTRACEPTION OR SAME-SEX MARRIAGE OR INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE, ALL WERE BASED IN PART ON CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO PRIVACY, WHICH THE MAJORITY SAYS DOES NOT EXIST, AND SO PEOPLE NEED CERTAINTY.

THIS IS A GREAT TIME OF FEAR AND ANXIETY, BUT WHETHER SAME-SEX COUPLES' MARRIAGE LICENSE WILL BE VALID, AND THE RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES ASSOCIATED WITH MARRIAGE ARE CRITICALLY IMPORTANT FOR ONE'S FAMILY, AND SO THE RESPECT FOR MARRIAGE ACT WOULD CODIFY THE OBERGEFELL AND GRISWOLD V. CONNECTICUT DECISION, AND PEOPLE COULD REST ASSURED THEIR MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE IS VALID.

>> NOW, I UNDERSTAND YOU NEED TEN REPUBLICAN SENATORS TO VOTE YES.

WHAT'S YOUR CURRENT COUNT?

>> THERE ARE FIVE REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE PUBLICLY STATED THAT THEY WILL SUPPORT THE RESPECT FOR MARRIAGE ACT, AND I HAVE SPOKEN WITH A ADDITIONAL MANY, T FIVE ADDITIONAL MEMBERS HAVE INDICATED THEY ARE LEANING IN SUPPORT, BUT I THINK BECAUSE OF HOW CROWDED THE CALENDAR IS FOR NEXT WEEK, WHICH IS OUR LAST WEEK BEFORE THE AUGUST RECESS, AND IN LIGHT OF THE FACT THAT WE CAN'T HAVE ANY ABSENCES, WE NEED EVERYBODY THERE, AND WE HAVE A FEW MEMBERS WITH COVID, THIS IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE A VOTE THAT OCCURS, WHAT I WOULD HOPE, IS EARLY SEPTEMBER.

>> SO ON THE VOTE, THOUGH, THE LATEST GALLOP POLL ON THE MATTER SHOWS 70% OF THE PUBLIC SUPPORT SAME-SEX MARRIAGE, INCLUDING 55% OF REPUBLICANS.

IS THERE A DISCONNECT FOR ELECTED OFFICIALS AS SO WHY, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO TALK TO THESE OTHER FIVE?

>> THE CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES, SADLY, HAS OFTEN FOLLOWED PUBLIC OPINION RATHER THAN LED PUBLIC OPINION, AND I AM STILL VERY HOPEFUL THAT WE WILL HAVE -- IN FACT, I BELIEVE WE DO HAVE THE TEN VOTES NECESSARY TO AVOID A FILIBUSTER, BUT, YEAH, IT IS SOMETHING WHERE I HAVE -- IN THE ARENA OF CIVIL RIGHTS, THE U.S. PUBLIC IS OFTEN AHEAD OF THEIR ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES, AND THAT'S TOO BAD.

THERE'S ALSO, YOU KNOW, SADLY, A VERY STRONG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE PARTIES.

EVERY DEMOCRAT IN THE U.S. SENATE SUPPORTS THE RESPECT FOR MARRIAGE ACT, AND I DON'T THINK THIS SHOULD BE AN ISSUE FROM A PARTISAN DIVIDE, BUT IT SEEMS IT STILL IS.

>> THERE IS SENATOR RON JOHNSON, ARGUABLY, ONE OF THE MOST CONSERVATIVE MEMBERS, SAID HE, QUOTE, HAD NO REASON TO OPPOSE THE MEASURE, BUT THEN HE CAME BACK ACCUSING DEMOCRATS OF CREATING A STATE OF FEAR OVER AN ISSUE TO FURTHER DIVIDE AMERICANS FOR POLITICAL BENEFIT.

HOW DO YOU RECONCILE THAT?

>> WELL, I'M GOING TO TAKE HIM AT HIS WORD WHEN HE SAID THAT HE HAS NO REASON TO OPPOSE IT, AND I WOULD VIEW THAT AS THAT HE WOULD SUPPORT IT, BUT I THINK THAT WE HAVE BEEN TRYING VERY HARD NOT TO POLITICIZE THIS AND TO RESPOND, AGAIN, TO THE FACT THAT THE SUPREME COURT OVERTURNED ROE VERSUS WADE, PRESIDPRECEDENT OF 499 YEARS ANR REASONING LEADS PEOPLE TO LEGITIMATELY FEAR THAT THE SUPREME COURT WOULD LATER OVERTURN CASES INVOLVING ACCESS TO CONTRACEPTION AND CASES LIKE THAT DEAL WITH INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE AND SAME-SEX MARRIAGE.

>> YOUR CALL FOR THE BILL COMES AS A RESULT OF THAT CLARENCE THOMAS CONCURRING THE OPINION IN RAISING THE ISSUE OF REVERSING ROE, BUT ON THAT, AS YOU KNOW, REVERTS BACK TO THE 1849 LAW WITH NO EXCEPTION FOR RAPE OR INCEST.

WHAT DO YOU THINK OUR STATE LEGISLATURE SHOULD DO ON THIS?

WHAT IS YOUR MESSAGE?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT THEY CERTAINLY SHOULD NOT SEND WOMEN BACK TO THE MID-1800s WHERE, AT A TIME WHEN WOMEN DID NOT EVEN HAVE A VOTE.

IT IS UN-- IT'S HARD TO PUT WORDS -- INTO WORDS HOW CHAOTIC THIS CASE HAS MADE THINGS IN TERMS OF WOMEN BEING ABLE TO ACCESS THE HEALTHCARE THEY NEED AND TO BE ABLE TO HAVE BODILY AUTONOMY AND CHOOSE WHEN AND WHETHER TO HAVE A FAMILY.

THE FACT THAT WISCONSIN WOMEN HAVE A FEWER FREEDOMS THAN THEIR MOTHERS AND GRANDMOTHERS IS JUST HARD TO WRAP OUR ARMS AROUND.

I THINK THE STATE LEGISLATURE NEEDS TO APPEAL THAT 1849 LAW, AND I BELIEVE THAT THEY SHOULD CODIFY A STATE VERSION OF SOMETHING SIMILAR TO ROE VERSUS WADE.

>> WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.

SENATOR TAMMY BALDWIN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

♪ >>> THE PEOPLE OF THIS STATE DON'T FEEL THAT THE ELECTION WAS CERTIFIABLE, THEREFORE, THE REQUEST TO DECERTIFY IS ON THE TABLE, AND IT SHOULDN'T TAKE AN ACTION.

>> SO REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR AND STATE REPRESENTATIVE, TIM RAMTHUN, CONTINUES TO CALL ON THE LEGISLATURE TO DECERTIFY THE 2020 ELECTION.

NOW, THAT IS REGARDED AS A LEGAL IMPOSSIBILITY, BUT THE FALLOUT FROM THE LAST ELECTION CONTINUES TO ROYAL WISCONSIN AND IN ALL THE WAYS WE KNOW.

THE GABLEMAN INVESTIGATION, STATE SUPREME COURT RULINGS ON DROP BOXES AND CALLS TO ABOLISH THE ELECTIONS COMMISSION, AND NOW THERE'S MORE THAT PROMPTED AND EMERGENCY MEETING OF COMMISSIONERS THURSDAY NIGHT.

SOMEONE AT THE EPICENTER OF THIS, FORMER CHAIR OF THE WISCONSIN ELECTIONS COMMISSION AND DEMOCRAT, ANN JACOBS.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> SO WHAT CAME TO LIGHT THIS WEEK IS THE TWO PEOPLE TRYING TO PROVE ELECTION FRAUD VULNERABILITIES ADMITTED TO COMMITTING FRAUD BY REQUESTING ABSENTEE BALLOTS IN OTHER PEOPLE'S NAMES INCLUDING ROBIN VOS.

AS AN ELECTION COMMISSIONER, WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT?

>> I'M ASTONISHED AT THE FACT THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING OUT AND INTENTIONALLY COMMITTING ELECTION CRIMES AND PRETENDING THEY ARE DOING IT TO SOMEHOW PROVE FRAUD IN AN ELECTION.

WHAT THEY DID BROKE THE LAW, AND THEY SHOULD BE PROSECUTED.

>> AND SO I KNOW THAT THE ELECTIONS COMMISSION VOTED TO PUT OUT FLIERS AHEAD OF THE PRIMARY, KIND OF WARNING CLERKS AND OTHERS ABOUT THIS.

WHAT MORE SPECIFICALLY DO YOU WANT, AND HOW SOON?

>> WELL, WHAT WE WANT IS PEOPLE TO STOP DOING THIS, AND WE THINK LAW ENFORCEMENT SHOULD STOP ENCOURAGING IT.

WHAT WE DID INDICATE WAS WE WOULD SEND POSTCARDS TO PEOPLE WHO HAD THEIR ABSENTEE BALLOTS SENT TO AN ADDRESS OTHER THAN THE HOME ADDRESS, HOME REGISTRATION ADDRESS, TO ENSURE THERE'S NOT THIS MONKEY BUSINESS GOING AROUND ELSEWHERE.

WE ALSO DID NOTIFY CLERKS THAT THEY ARE OBLIGATED TO REFER CASES OF FRAUD, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE CASES LIKE WHAT WE ARE DISCUSSING, TO THEIR LOCAL DISTRICT ATTORNEY IF THEY FIND IT, AND WHAT WE'RE DOING IS ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO USE THE MY VOTE WEBSITE TO CHECK THEIR OWN ABSENTEE BALLOT STATUS.

>> GREAT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF CALLS FROM TIM RAMTHUN AND DONALD TRUMP TO DECERTIFY THE 2020 ELECTION IN WISCONSIN?

>> ELECTIONS ARE NOT ABOUT FEELINGS.

ELECTIONS ARE ABOUT NUMBERS.

IN THE STATE OF WISCONSIN, WE HAD AN ACCURATE, PROPERLY TALLIED RECOUNTED ELECTION WHERE DONALD TRUMP LOST BY 20,000 VOTES.

IN COMPARISON, IN 2016, WE HAD AN ACCURATELY TALLIED, RECOUNTED VOTE WHERE DONALD TRUMP WON BY 20,000 VOTES.

SAME ELECTION ADMINISTRATION.

SAME ELECTION OFFICIALS.

SAME RULES.

SOMETIMES VOTERS CHANGE THEIR MINDS.

TELLING PEOPLE THAT PEOPLE FEEL THE ELECTION WASN'T FAIR AND ACCURATE SIMPLY REINFORCES THE INCORRECT POSITION OUR ELECTIONS WAS ANYTHING BUT ACCURATE.

>> FALSE PUBLIC ELECTORS LIKE ONE OF YOUR FELLOW COMMISSIONERS ARE ON THE RADAR OF FEDERAL INVESTIGATORS.

WHY DID THE COMMISSION, THOUGH, UNANIMOUSLY VOTE NOT TO SANCTION THEM?

>> THE DECISION OF THE COMMISSION, I THINK, IS BEST ARTICULATED IN THE MEMO GIVEN BY THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE THAT WAS INCORPORATED INTO OUR DECISION, AND IT WAS ON THAT BASIS THAT THE COMMISSION MADE THAT DECISION.

NOW, RECALL THAT THE COMMISSION DID THAT WITH COMMISSIONER SITTING IN ON IT, AND SINCE THE LAWSUIT WAS FILED, HE'S NOW AGREED TO RESCUE HIMSELF FROM FUTURE DISCUSSING OF IT, AND THERE'S NOW AN ACTION IN CIRCUIT COURT TO RETURN THE INVESTIGATION TO THE COMMISSION FOR FURTHER EVALUATION.

WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE IS A LOT OF THE RECENT INFORMATION WE RECEIVE ON THE FALSE ELECTORS CAME OUT AFTER THE COMMISSION'S DECISION.

>> THERE HAVE BEEN CALLS TO ABOLISH THE ELECTIONS COMMISSION.

WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT?

>> WELL, THAT SEEMS TO BE WHAT THE WISCONSIN LEGISLATURE DOES EVERY TIME SOMEONE THEY DON'T LIKE WINS.

WE STARTED OUT WITH THE SECRETARY OF STATE, AND THEY DID NOT LIKE HOW THAT PERSON HAD THE ELECTION, SO THEY CREATED A STATE ELECTION BOARD.

THEY DIDN'T LIKE THAT, SO THEY CREATED THE GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY BOARD.

THEY DIDN'T LIKE HOW THE GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY BOARD WORKED SO THEY CREATED THE ELECTIONS COMMISSION, AND NOW THAT THE ELECTIONS COMMISSION, WHICH REQUIRES BIPARTISAN APPROVAL OF ALL OF ITS ACTIONS, NOW THAT THEY DON'T LIKE THE ELECTIONS COMMISSION BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP LOST, THEY WANT TO GO BACK TO A SECRETARY OF STATE.

>> HOW CAN I GET TO THIS WITH A MINUTE LEFT?

WHAT EFFECT, IN YOUR MIND, DOES ALL OF THIS, ALL OF THIS TALK OF DECERTIFY CASES OF ELECTIONS, AND LAW CHANGES HAVE ON THE AVERAGE VOTER AND THE CLERKS?

>> WELL, ON THE CLERKS, IT'S MADE THEM -- THEY HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF MALFEASANCE AND PHYSICAL AND VERBAL THREATS MADE AGAINST THEM.

THAT NEEDS TO STOP.

FOR THE AVERAGE VOTER, GO VOTE.

YOUR VOTE WILL COUNT.

THE VOTE IS ACCURATE.

IT IS SAFE.

WE WANT YOU TO GET OUT THERE AND VOTE.

WE HAVE AN ELECTION COMING UP IN AUGUST.

ANOTHER ONE IN NOVEMBER.

LET'S GO VOTE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

ANN JACOBS, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> THE AUGUST 9 PRIMARY ELECTION QUICKLY APPROACHES, AND TWO G.O.P.

CANDIDATES ARE VYING TO BE THE NOMINEE TO TAKE ON DEMOCRATIC INCUMBENT ATTORNEY GENERAL, JOSH KAUL.

ZAC SCHULTZ HAS THIS STORY ON THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES.

>> THE OFFICE OF ATTORNEY GENERAL IS FREQUENTLY REFERRED TO AS WISCONSIN'S TOP COP.

THE REPUBLICAN ERIC TONEY SAYS HIS TEN YEARS AS FOND-A-LAC PREPARED HIM FOR THE ROLE AND DECIDED TO RUN AFTER THE BLAKE SHOOTING IN AUGUST OF 2020 LED TO RIOTS IN KENOSHA.

HE SAID JOSH KAU WILL NOT PUBLICLY SUPPORT THE POLICE OFFICER WHO SHOT BLAKE.

>> AND TO HAVE AN ATTORNEY GENERAL THAT'S NOT STANDING WITH OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT, I COULD NOT SIT BACK AND WATCH THAT CONTINUE, AND THAT'S WHAT GOT ME ULTIMATELY IN THE RACE FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL.

>> IT WAS TONEY'S CANDIDACY THAT GOT HIM IN THE RACE.

>> I'M THE ONLY CANDIDATE IN THE RACE WITH THE EXPERIENCE TO IMMEDIATELY DAY ONE WALK INTO THE OFFICE AND BE ABLE TO HANDLE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT WOULD COME BEFORE THE AG.

>> JARCHOW WAS IN THE STATE ASSEMBLY, BUT OUT OF OFFICE IN 2021 WHEN HE SAID A CONSERVATIVE CANDIDATE NEEDED TO CHALLENGE TONEY.

>> A ROBUST PRIMARY WHERE CANDIDATES ARE VETTED IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT, AND ADD TO THAT THAT MY PRIMARY OPPONENT, ERIC TONEY, HELPED ENFORCE EVERS' ILLEGAL LOCKDOWN MEASURES.

>> HE SAID HE NEVER ACTUALLY PROSECUTORRED ANYONE FOR NOT OBEYING LOCKDOWN ORDERS IN THE FIRST DAYS OF THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC.

>> MY OPPONENT ATTACKED ME RELENTLESSLY FOR COVID WHERE MY JOB IS TO FOLLOW THE RULE OF LAW.

WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS SUPPORTING THOSE SAFE AT HOME EFFORTS IN THE FIRST 13 # 139 1E USED DISCRETION TO DISMISS THEM BAS IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO, AND WHEN THE LEGAL EXTENDED ORDER CAME HOME IN APRIL, WE DID NOT ENFORCE IT HERE.

>> TONEY SAID IT'S HIS EXPERIENCE AS DISTRICT ATTORNEY THAT SETS HIM APART CONSIDERING NEARLY EVERY ATTORNEY GENERAL IN STATE HISTORY HAS PROSECUTION EXPERIENCE.

>> VOTERS LOOK AT THE TOP COP, AN THEY WANT SOMEONE THAT HAS THAT EXPERIENCE PROSECUTING BEING IN THE TRENCHES WITH THE LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND I'M THE ONLY CANDIDATE THAT'S ACTUALLY DONE THAT.

>> THE THIRD CANDIDATE IN THE PRIMARY IS REPUBLICAN KAREN MILLER, AN ATTORNEY FROM CHIPP, WA FALLS, BUT SHE DID NOT RESPOND TO REQUEST FOR INTERSLEW VIEW.

JARCHOW SAYS TIMES ARE CHANGING.

>> AS WE LOOK AT THE WAY THE ROLES OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL EXPANDED ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY, WE SEE A FEWER AND A FEWER PROSECUTORS ELECTED TO THE OFFICE.

THAT WAS KIND OF THE OLD MODEL.

THE NEW MODEL IS PEOPLE FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR OR WHO HAVE LEGISLATIVE EXPERIENCE BECAUSE SO MUCH OF WHAT YOU DO AS ATTORNEY GENERAL IS MANAGE A HUGE AGENCY.

>> THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS BEEN A PARTISAN OFFICE, BUT WISCONSIN VOTERS HAVE PREVIOUSLY VOTED FOR A GOVERNOR OF ONE PARTY AND AG OF THE OTHER.

BUT IN THE LAST DECADE, AGs ACROSS THE COUNTRY HAVE BECOME MORE ACTIVE, CHALLENGING STATE AND FEDERAL LAWS, ACTING IN CONCERT WITH THE POLITICAL PARTIES.

>> IT IS INCREASINGLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT'S AN ERA OF UNCHECKED POWER OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND OUR OWN BUREAUCRACY HERE IN THE STATE OF WISCONSIN, AND SO YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE ROLE OF THE AG CAN BE TORAN IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

>> TONEY SAID THERE'S LIMITS TO PARTISANSHIP IN OFFICE.

>> I FOLLOW THE RULE OF LAW, AND THE RULE OF LAW IS NOT ALWAYS POPULAR.

>> POINTING TO THE DEBATE AMONG REPUBLICAN VOTERS ABOUT THE VALIDITY OF THE 2020 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

>> WE HAVE NOT SEEN ANY COURT IN WISCONSIN MAKE A DETERMINATION OF FRAUD TO SOME LEVEL THAT COULD HAVE HAD AN IMPACT ON THE 2020 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION HERE IN WISCONSIN.

>> THERE WAS NO WIDESPREAD FRAUD THAT IMPACTED THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION, BUT DONALD TRUMP'S CONSPIRACY THEORIES HAVE MANY REPUBLICANS CONVINCED THE ELECTION CAN BE OVERTURNED.

>> WE CANNOT DECERTIFY THE ELECTION.

THERE IS NO WAY TO DO IT.

I HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS ALL ACROSS WISCONSIN.

I HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS.

I HAVE THIS DIALOGUE.

THAT'S WHERE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS AT.

THAT'S WHY I RECEIVED THE OVERWHELMING ENDORSEMENT VOTE IN THE STATE CONVENTION BECAUSE I'M WILLING TO BE UP FRONT AND TELL PEOPLE THE TRUTH, NOT JUST WHEN IT IS POPULAR.

>> JARCHOW SAYS THE KEY TO CONVINCING REPUBLICAN VOTERS THAT IT WAS FAIR IS TO ELECT REPUBLICANS.

>> IF WE SECURE THE ELECTIONS, WHICH I BELIEVE WE DO WITH A ROM GOVERNOR AND AG, THAT RESTORES THE FAITH.

>> THEY WILL FACE JOSH KAUL AND VOTER HAVE TO CONSIDER ELECTABILITY.

IN 2018, JARCHOW LOST A SEAT THAT HAD NOT VOTED DEMOCRAT IN DECADES, BUT FLIPPED BACK TO REPUBLICAN IN THE NEXT ELECTION.

>> IF YOU DON'T WIN THAT SEAT, YOU DON'T WIN WISCONSIN.

THE COUNTY VOTED TO SUPPORT ME, THE PEOPLE WHO KNOW HIM BEST REJECTED HIM.

>> HE SAYS THE SPECIAL ELECTION WAS A FLUKE IN A STRONG YEAR FOR DEMOCRATS.

THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT HE EXPECTS FOR 2022.

>> THEIR BASE TURNED OUT, AND OURS DID NOT IN A LOW TURNOUT SPECIAL ELECTION.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S INDICATIVE AT ALL OF, YOU KNOW, THE KIND OF CANDIDATE THAT I'VE HISTORICALLY BEEN, WINNING ASSEMBLY SEAT BY WIDE MARGINS, AND NOT INDICATIVE HOW WE THUMP JOSH KAUL.

>> REPORTING IN MADISON, I'M ZAC SCHULTZ FOR "HERE & NOW."

>>> A MONTH INTO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT DECISION ELIMINATING THE RIGHT TO LEGAL ABORTION, DOCTORS AND PATIENTS ARE FINDING THEMSELVES IN DESPERATE SITUATIONS, PARTICULARLY EMERGENCY ROOM DOCTORS UNSURE WHEN OR IF THEY CAN INTERVENE WITH A MEDICALLY NECESSARY ABORTION TO SAVE THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER.

MARISA WOJCIK SAT DOWN WITH MILWAUKEE BASED EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN AND A FELLOW OF THE AMERICAN COLLEGE OF EMERGENCY PHYSICIANS, DR. CHRISTOPHER FORD, FOR MORE.

>> HOW HAS THE DECISION TO LIMIT ACCESS TO LEGAL ABORTION IMPACTED EMERGENCY PHYSICIANS?

>> YEAH.

SO WHAT WE ARE BRACING FOR, MORE SO, IS AN INFLUX OF PATIENTS WHO WILL, UNFORTUNATELY, HAVE ADVERSARY PRECUSHIONS BASED ON THE LIMITATION AND ACCESS TO SAFE AND MEDICALLY SAFE ABORTIONS.

>> AND WHEN SOMEONE FIRST COMES TO THE ER, WHETHER THEY KNOW IT OR NOT, THEY ARE PREGNANT, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE SERIOUS CONDITIONS THAT YOU ENCOUNTER?

>> YEAH.

SO WHAT WE TYPICALLY WILL SEE REGULARLY ARE COMPLICATIONS RELATING TO BLOOD -- BLEEDING, AND COMPLICATIONS CAN BE DEVASTATING AND DEADLY TOO.

>> CAN YOU GIVE EXAMPLES?

>> YEAH.

SO ONE OF THE CONDITIONS THAT WE SEE -- NOT COMMONLY, BUT WE WILL SEE IN THE EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT EVERY NOW AND THEN IS A CONDITION CALLED A RUPTURED ECTOPIC PREGNANCY.

THIS IS A CONDITION WHERE THE PREGNANCY IS NOT IN THE UTERUS, BUT RATHER IN THE OUTSIDE AREA OF THE UTERUS, AND SO ONE OF THE CONSIDERATIONS FOR EBBING PREGNANCY AND WHAT YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND IS THE PREGNANCY IS NOT VIABLE.

RIGHT NOW, IN MEDICINE, WE DO NOT HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY OR THE CAPABILITIES OF RESEEDING THAT PREGNANCY IN THE UTERUS, AND SO REGULARLY, TYPICAL STANDARD OF CARE, THESE ARE PATIENTS THAT WOULD GO INTO THE OPERATING ROOM WITH THE PARTNERS FROM THE GYNECOLOGY DIVISION TO HAVE ESSENTIALLY AN ABORTION OF THAT PREGNANCY IN ORDER TO SAVE THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER.

SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO HAPPEN BECAUSE, AGAIN, THESE ARE LIFE-SAVING THERAPIES, BUT ALSO, FOR PEOPLE TO BE AWARE, WHO ARE PROVIDERS, THAT THIS IS STILL SOMETHING WE A OBLIGATED TO PERFORM.

>> AND IS THAT SOMETHING THAT IS STANDARD, DO YOU THINK, FOR EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIANS ACROSS THE STATE?

>> MY CONCERN IS THAT AT THIS POINT IN TIME IS WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO, YOU KNOW, THE RULE, YOU KNOW, WHEN SHE IS WORKING AT 2:00 IN THE MORNING, AND YOU HAVE THIS RUPTURED EBBING PREGNANCY THAT COMES IN?

WHAT WE DON'T WANT TO HAPPEN IS WE DON'T WANT THAT PHYSICIAN TO BE ON THE PHONE WITH THE LAWYER TO TRY TO DETERMINE WHAT'S THE RIGHT THING AND WHAT'S WRONG, AND WHAT COULD THE POTENTIAL REPERCUSSIONS BE LEGALLY AND PROFESSIONALLY IF SHE DOES WHAT SHE KNOWS IS RIGHT FOR THE PATIENT AND WHAT CAN BE LIFE SAVING FOR THE PATIENT.

>> HAS THAT HAPPENED?

>> YEAH.

SO I HAVE READ MULTIPLE REPORTS IN THIS POINT IN TIME BY ER DOCS AND GYNECOLOGISTS ALREADY IN THE STATE AND SOME OUTSIDE THE STATE AS WELL WHO HAVE BEEN ON THE PHONE WITH LAWYERS FOR A NUMBER OF HOURS IN ORDER TO, AGAIN, TRY TO NEGOTIATE WHAT IS GOING TO BE THE BEST WAY TO CARE FOR THESE PATIENTS, AND, AGAIN, WHAT RAMIFICATIONS COULD BE FELT BY THAT PROVIDER, YOU KNOW, SHOULD THEY GO AHEAD WITH THE THERAPY THEY DID, YOU KNOW, JUST MONTHS AGO, AND WHAT IS THE TYPICAL STANDARD OF CARE FOR THESE PATIENTS SO IT IS A SITUATION NOW THAT'S VERY SCARY TO BE A PROVIDER AND ALSO DETRIMENT TO THE PATIENTS WE ARE TREATING.

>> AND THAT'S FOR AN EBBING PREGNANCY, WHICH IS CONSIDERED TO BE MORE OBVIOUS, I GUESS, BUT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF OTHER CONDITIONS THAT ARE MUCH LESS CLEAR FOR PHYSICIANS.

IS THERE ANY SORT OF GUIDANCE THAT PEOPLE CAN GO TO THAT THEY CAN MAKE A QUICK DECISION?

>> YEAH.

ONE OF THE POLICY STATEMENTS WAS PERFORMED BY THE CENTERS OF MEDICARE AND MEDICAID.

IT WAS MOST RECENTLY UPDATED IN LATE 2021 IN WHICH THEY LEANED ON THE FACT THAT WE ARE COVERED AS PROVIDERS, BOTH IN THE EMERGENCY SETTING AS WELL AS IN THE OB SETTING TO DO THE BEST THING FOR THE PATIENT IN THE MOMENT IN ORDER TO PREVENT MORBIDITY OR MORTALITY OR RISK OR DEATH OR BAD OUTCOMES.

>> AND YET, WE ARE STILL HEARING STORIES OF MOTHERS THAT ARE INFECTED OR BLEEDING FOR MANY DAYS.

HAVE YOU SEEN OR HEARD OF ANY COMPLICATIONS WITH MISCARRIAGES?

>> THAT IS ESSENTIALLY THE SITUATION IN WHERE WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN ON THE PHONES FOR A NUMBER OF HOURS NOW IN ORDER TO TRY TO DETERMINE IF THEY CAN GIVE THAT MEDICATION, YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD BE THE LIABILITY BASED ON THAT, YOU KNOW, IN A STATE MUCH LIKE OUR OWN WHERE THAT MAY NOT BE LEGAL, AND SO, FORTUNATELY, WE HAVE CLEAR GUIDELINES FROM A FEDERAL STANDPOINT, HOWEVER, THE STATEWIDE STANDPOINT IS MORE OF A GRAY AREA.

THE PRIMARY PURPOSE OF MEDICINE IS TO DO NO HARM.

WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO PROTECT OUR PATIENTS AND CONTINUE TO DO WHAT'S SAFE FOR THEM.

>> ALL RIGHT, DR. CHRIS FORD, THANK VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> WATCH THE EXTENDED VERSION OF THAT INTERVIEW ON OUR WEBSITE AT PBSWISCONSIN.ORG AND CLICK ON THE NEWS TAB.

THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.

I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.

HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND.

♪ >> Announcer: FUNDING FOR "HERE & NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS WISCONSIN.