>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL PRODUCTION.

>> RUSSIA'S WAR ON UKRAINE SURPASSES ONE MONTH, AS THE CARNAGE CONTINUES.

AND RUSSIA WON'T RULE OUT CHEMICAL AND NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

THE U.S. SUPREME COURT RULES ON THE EQUAL PROTECTION OF WISCONSIN'S LATEST VOTING MAPS.

AND FENTANYL TESTING STRIPS BECOME LEGAL IN WISCONSIN.

I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.

TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW," WISCONSIN'S DELEGATION PUNISHED PUTIN ON DIFFERENT FRONTS.

CONGRESSMAN MIKE GALLAGHER AND RON KIND JOIN US.

SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER ZAC SCHULTZ EXPLAINS THE HIGH COURT'S RULING ON REDISTRICTING.

AND THE REALITY OF LIVES SAVED BY DETECTING FENTANYL IN DRUGS.

IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR MARCH 25.

>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS WISCONSIN.

>> IF CHEMICAL WEAPONS WERE USED IN UKRAINE, WOULD THAT TRIGGER A MILITARY RESPONSE FROM NATO?

>> IT WOULD TRIGGER A RESPONSE IN KIND.

>> PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN ADDRESSING REPORTERS IN BRUSSELS YESTERDAY AS HE MET WITH NATO LEADERS.

MORE THAN 3 1/2 MILLION UKRAINIANS HAVE FLED THE COUNTRY AND THE UNITED STATES IS NOW PREPARED TO ACCEPT 100,000 OF THEM.

THIS AS A RUSSIAN SPOKESPERSON SAYS THE COUNTRY HAS NOT RULED OUT THE POSSIBILITY OF CHEMICAL OR NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

OUR FIRST GUEST IS A FORMER MARINE CORPS INTELLIGENCE OFFICER AND MEMBER OF THE HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE.

REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN MIKE GALLAGHER FROM THE 8TH DISTRICT JOINS US FROM GREEN BAY.

CONGRESSMAN, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

> >> SO ONE MONTH INTO THE WAR IN UKRAINE, WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THE HORROR OF WHAT'S GOING ON?

>> EL WI WELL, NOW I FEAR WE'RE SETTLING INTO A WAR OF ATTRITION THAT NOT ONLY IS GOING TO BE VERY COSTLY IN TERMS OF SLAUGHTER AND LIVES LOST, BUT IT'S STILL AN UNCERTAIN OUTCOME.

THOUGH IT SEEMS UNLIKELY THAT PUTIN COULD CONSOLIDATE ANY SORT OF CONTROL OVER THE ENTIRE COUNTRY, HE COULD EFFECTIVELY DISMEMBER THE COUNTRY WHICH COULD BE A BAD OUT COME FROM THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE AS WELL AS TO GIVE HIM A PLATFORM TO THREATEN NATO IN THE FUTURE.

SO I THINK WE'RE IN THE EARLY STAGES OF THIS AND WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO DO WHATEVER WE CAN TO PROVIDE LETHAL ASSISTANCE IN PARTICULAR TO THE UKRAINIANS WHO ARE FIGHTING VERY, VERY BRAVELY.

>> AS TO THE THREAT OF CHEMICAL WEAPONS, HE SAID QUOTE ALLIES WOULD RESPOND IN KIND.

FIRST WHAT KIND OF CHEMICALS WEAPONS ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

>> WELL, IT COULD BE ANY NUMBER OF THINGS.

YOU COULD IMAGINE PUTIN STRIKING TARGETS ON THE GROUND IN UKRAINE THAT COULD HAVE A FALLOUT, A BIOLOGICAL FALLOUT, YOU COULD HAVE DIRTY BOMBS, OBVIOUSLY IT COULD ESCALATE ALL THE WAY UP TO NUCLEAR WEAPONS, AND THEN IN SYRIA, WE'VE SEEN HIM BASICALLY USE THE COUNTRY AS A LAVATORY FOR HOW TO INTEGRATE CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WAR FAR IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THE ASSAD REGIME AT VARIOUS TIMES AS USED SUCH WEAPONS WHICH IS THE LAST TIME A DEMOCRAT ADMINISTRATION HAS SET RED LINES.

NOW THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS SET IT, HE BETTER BE PREPARED TO BACK IT UP.

NOW, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD ALLOW THE FEAR OF ESCALATION TO DOMINATE OUR ACTIONS, IN FACT, I THINK THAT'S PART OF WHY WE GOT INTO THIS CRISIS IN THE FIRST PLACE, IS WE WERE SO AFRAID OF PROVOKING PUTIN THAT THAT WAS USED AS AN EXCUSE TO DO NOTHING AND TO DELAY ASSISTANCE TO THE UKRAINIANS, SO WE WANT TO SHIFT THE DYNAMIC AND MAKE SURE THAT IT'S PUTIN WHO FEARS OUR RETALIATION AND THAT'S THE ONLY WAY WE'LL BE ABLE TO RESTORE SOME SE SEMBLANCE OF DETERRENCEN UKRAINE.

>> MEANWHILE, HOW MUCH FIREPOWER HAS THE U.S.

SENT TO UKRAINE AND IS IT ENOUGH IN YOUR MIND?

>> WELL, WE RECENTLY PASSED A OVER $10 BILLION PACKAGE.

NOW, NOT ALL OF THIS HAS MANIFESTED ITSELF IN TERMS OF JAVELINS, STINGERS, SNIPER REIEFLS, BODY ARMOR, THINGS LIKE THAT, THERE'S MUCH MORE WE CAN DO, BUT WE ARE FINALLY WAKING UP TO THE THREAT AND DOING A LOT MORE TO PROVIDE LETHAL ASSISTANCE.

THE AREAS WHERE I THINK WE CAN STILL DO MORE, ONE, I THINK WE SHOULD FIND A WAY TO TAKE SLOVAKIA UP ON ITS OFFER TO PROVIDE THE S300 SYSTEM TO UKRAINE AND FIND A WAY TO BACKFILL THEIR AIR DEFENSE SYSTEMS.

I WAS IN FAVOR OF PROVIDING THE POLISH MIGS.

I'M NOT OPTIMISTIC THE PRESIDENT WILL FIND A SLAWTION FOR THAT OR CHANGE COURSE ON THAT DESPITE HIS VISIT TO POLAND, BUT THE POINT REMAINS, I THINK THERE ARE MORE CREATIVE OPTIONS IN PARTNERSHIP WITH OUR NATO ALLIES WHERE SHORT OF A NO-FLY ZONE, WE CAN STILL GIVE THE UKRAINIANS THE TOOLS THEY NEED TO PROTECT THEMSELF FROM ATTACKS FROM THE SKY AS WELL AS OTHER FORMS OF RUSSIAN WEP RE.

ONRY.>> WHAT ARE YOUR CONCERNS T CHINA STARTS HELPING YO RUSSIA?

>> I THINK THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT NEXT PHASE OF THIS CONFLICT.

PRIOR TO THE INNOVATION AT THE BEGINNING OF THE OLYMPICS, THEY SIGNED THIS 5,000 WORD PLEDGE OF FRIENDSHIP WITHOUT LIMITS.

WE'VE HEARD VARIOUS REPORTS THAT CHINA IS CONSIDERING PROVIDING LETHAL ASSISTANCE TO RUSSIA, GIVING THEM A LIFE LINE.

WE NEED TO BE ABSOLUTELY CLEAR THAT IF THE CHINESE DECIDE TO DO THAT, THEN THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES, WE WILL PUNISH THEM, WE SHOULD CUT OFF THE EXPORT SEMICONDUCTOR SUBCOMPONENTS, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT CHINA RELIES UPON.

WE SHOULD ALREADY BE DELISTING CHINESE COMPANIES THAT ARE TRYING TO LIST ON AMERICAN EXCHANGES.

OUR SEC IS REMARKABLY STILL NEGOTIATING WITH THE CHINESE OVER SOME ACCOUNTABILITY STANDARDS, THESE ARE A JOKE RIGHT NOW.

SO RUSSIA AND CHINA HAVE DECIDED TO PARTNER IN LAUNCHING THIS NEW COLD WAR AGAINST AMERICA AND THE WEST, WE NEED TO START RECOGNIZING THAT IN ORDER TO START PUSHING BACK.

>> AS A MILITARY EXPERT, DO YOU THINK THIS COULD BECOME WORLD WAR THREE?

WHERE WILL PUTIN STOP?

>> WELL, THERE'S ALWAYS THE DAIDANGER THAT ONCE YOU UNLEASHE DOGS OF WAR, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

WAR IS COMPLEX, THE FOG OF WAR IS THICK RIGHT NOW.

THE SIMPLEST THING BECOMES VERY DIFFICULT.

SO WE DON'T KNOW.

WE DO NOT KNOW, WE SHOULD BE COGNIZANT OF THE RISK OF ESCALATION, BUT I BELIEVE OUR BEST CHANCE TO NOT ONLY AVOID WORLD WAR THREE BUT TO ALSO HELP PRESERVE SOME SEMBLANCE OF A FREE UKRAINE IS TO INVEST IN HARD POWER WITH OUR ALLIES.

WE LEARNED THE HARD WAY IN UKRAINE THAT SANCTIONS ALONE DO NOT DETER, #DIPLOMACY DOES NOT DETER.

DETERRENCE DEPENDS ON AMERICAN LEADERSHIP AND HARD POWER, THAT'S NOT JUST IN UKRAINE, THAT'S THE LESSON WE NEED TO LEARN AND APLAY TO TAIWAN GOING FORWARD BUT WE ACTUALLY SEE A WORLD WAR THREE FOUGHT OVER THE CHINESE INNOVATION OF TAIWAN.

>> WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO SOME REPUBLICANS INCLUDING FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP WHO SEEM TO HAVE BEEN PRAISING PUTIN?

>> WELL, OBVIOUSLY PUTIN IS A KGB THUG AND A DICTATOR, AND THERE'S A STRAIN OF THINKING ON THE RIGHT AND LEFT THAT SUGGESTS WE CAN SHO SOMEHOW PEEL THE RUSS OFF FROM THE CHINESE AND PARTNER WITH THEM OVER THE LONG TERM TO PUSH BACK AGAINST CHINA.

IF THAT WERE POSSIBLE, IT WOULD BE WORTH CONSIDERING BUT IT'S NOT POSSIBLE.

PUTIN HAS NO INTEREST IN COOPERATING WITH US, OUR INTERESTS DON'T ALIGN, AND HE IS OBVIOUSLY AS I SAID AT THE START A KGB THUG.

IN THIS SAME INTERVIEW, I BELIEVE PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID THIS NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF HE WAS STILL PRESIDENT.

HE MAY HAVE HAD A POINT THERE BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAPPEN FOR FOUR YEARS WHEN TRUMP WAS PRESIDENT.

I GUESS THAT'S THE COUNTERFACTUAL WE'LL NEVER GET TO PLAY OUT, BUT PUTIN IS A THUG AND THE ONLY LANGUAGE HE UNDERSTANDS IS THAT OF HARD POWER.

>> CONGRESSMAN MIKE GALLAGHER, THANKS VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> OUTSIDE OF MILITARY FORCE, PRESIDENT BIDEN IS MEETING WITH A GROUP OF SEVEN LEADERS TO DISCUSS FURTHER ECONOMIC SANCTIONS AGAINST RUSSIA AND PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN.

OUR NEXT GUEST COMES FROM AN ECONOMIC BACKGROUND AND HAS BEEN VOTING FOR MEASURES TO APPLY PRESSURE ON RUSSIA'S POCKETBOOK.

DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN FROM THE THIRD DISTRICT, RON KIND, JOINS US NOW FROM LACROSSE.

CONGRESSMAN, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> HI, FRED.

GLAD TO BE WITH YOU.

>> SO WHAT IS YOUR REACTION AS THIS WAR GRINDS INTO ITS SECOND MONTH NOW?

>> WELL, I THINK VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS MADE PERHAPS THE BIGGEST STRATEGIC MISTAKE OF THE 21ST CENTURY.

HE WAS EXPECTING A DIVIDED UKRAINE, DIVIDED EUROPE, DIVIDED NATO AND A DIVIDED UNITED STATES AND INSTEAD HE GOT EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.

I COMMEND PRESIDENT BIDEN FOR UNIFYING THE FREE WORLD IN SHORT ORDER TO STAND UP AGAINST PUTIN'S ILLEGAL AGGRESSION, BUT IT WAS ALSO HELPFUL HAVING A VERY COURAGEOUS, STRONG LEADER IN PRESIDENT ZELENSKY, LEADING THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE AND WHAT WE'VE SEEN FROM THEM THESE LAST FEW WEEKS.

SO WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE END GAME LOOKS LIKE BUT I THINK IT'S GOING TO LOOK VERY BAD FOR PUTIN AND HIS RUSSIAN MILITARY.

>> PRESIDENT BIDEN SAID WE WOULD RESPOND IN KIND IF RUSSIA DEPLOYED CHEMICAL WEAPONS.

WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT?

>> A LITTLE STRATEGIC AMBIGUITY IS NOT A BAD THING IN THIS TYPE OF SITUATION.

WE MADE IT CLEAR THAT THAT'S STEPPING OVER A VERY DANGEROUS LINE AND THERE WOULD BE SEVERE CONSEQUENCES.

I DON'T THINK VLADIMIR PUTIN WANTS TO TEST US ON THAT.

I DON'T THINK HE'S GOING TO BE HAPPY WITH OUR REACTION OR THE REST OF THE WORLD'S REACTION IF HE GOES THAT FAR.

>> DO YOU THINK THIS COULD BLOW INTO WORLD WAR THREE?

>> I CERTAINLY HOPE NOT.

I MEAN, A NO-FLY ZONE WOULD BE WORLD WAR THREE, AND I THINK THAT'S WHY PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS BEEN CLEAR THAT HE'S NOT GOING TO HAVE THE U.S.

IMPLEMENT A NO-FLY ZONE.

AND BESIDES, THERE ARE BETTER MILITARY TOOLS WE'RE GIVING YOUE UKRAINIAN ARMY TO CONTROL THE AIR SPACE, FROM THE STINGER AND THE S300s RIGHT NOW.

PLUS THEY'RE MORE MOBILE.

THESE JETS FROM POLAND, YOU NEED LANDING STRIPS, CREW, FUEL LINES, TRAINED PILOTS, AND RUSSIA DOES HAVE A VERY EFFECTIVE ANTI-AIR DEFENSE SYSTEM.

SO I THINK WHAT WE'RE DOING NOW IS ABOUT THE BEST WE CAN DO TO HARM THE UKRAINIAN ARMY TO KNOCK SOME OF THE RUSSIAN PLANES AND HELICOPTERS OUT OF THE SKY.

>> SO THE OTHER PRESS ON THE PART OF THE U.S. AND NATO ALLIES IS INCREASING SANCTIONS.

TO BAND THINGS LIKE FREEZING RUSSIAN ASSETS AND SEIZING THESE OLIGARCHS' YACHTS.

HOW EFFECTIVE ARE THESE KINDS OF SANCTIONS?

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S BEEN A THREE FOLD RESPONSE, NOT ONLY PROVIDING MILITARY AND HUMANITARIAN AID TO THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE AND THE FREE WORLD IS STANDING UP AND DOING THAT, BUT THE UNPRECEDENTED ECONOMIC SANCTIONS THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN LED AND PUT INTO PLACE.

I WAS IN LONDON WITH THE HIGH-TECH BAN, SOFTWARE, MICROCHIPS, MICROPROCESSORS, WE KNOW THE WORLD RUNS ON MICROCHIPS TODAY.

THIS IS GOING TO TAKE A VERY HEAVY TOLL ON THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY, AND ESPECIALLY THE RUSSIAN MILITARY.

THAT NEEDS THAT AND SPARE PARTS.

THE BIG MISSING INGREDIENT RIGHT NOW IS THE ENERGY RESOURCES THAT RUSSIA SUPPLIES WESTERN EUROPE.

AND WE'RE HARD AT WORK, IN FACT, PRESIDENT BIDEN JUST ANNOUNCED A MAJOR LIQUEFIED NATURAL GAS AGREEMENT WITH EUROPE.

THEY'RE DEPENDENT ON 40% OF THEIR NATURAL GAS FROM RUSSIA.

I BELIEVE THIS NEW AGREEMENT MOVING FORWARD IS GOING TO REDUCE THAT DEPENDENCY, NOT JUST IN THE SHORT TERM, BUT PERMANENTLY, AND AGAIN, THAT WAS A HUGE MISCALCULATION BY PUTIN IN THIS WAR.

>> CAN THESE SANCTIONS BE ESCALATED EVEN MORE?

>> YEAH, THEY'RE TAKING A TOLL ALREADY, FRED.

THE RUBLE IS IN A FREE FALL, THEY'RE QUADRUPLING INTEREST RATES RIGHT NOW, THE STOCK MARKET HAS BEEN CLOSED FOR WEEKS, INFLATION IS EXPLODING OUT OF CONTROL.

THETHEY HAVE TURNED THEM -- THE REAL QUESTION IS WHAT'S CHINA'S RESPONSE?

THEY'VE BEEN AMBIGUOUS ABOUT WHICH WAY THEY'RE LEANING.

GIVEN THEIR CLOSE ECONOMIC TIES TO THE U.S. AND EUROPEAN UNION, I DON'T THINK CHINA WANTS TO SIDE WITH AN INTERNATIONAL WAR CRIMINAL, PUTIN AND RUSSIA, AT THIS TIME.

>> NOT TO MENTION A COLLAPSED ECONOMY.

>> YEAH, THAT'S VERY REAL AND UNFORTUNATELY, THAT IS HAPPENING.

AND PUTIN IS DOING EVERYTHING HE CAN TO TURN THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY INTO NORTH KOREA.

THAT'S NOT A GOOD PLACE TO BE.

>> MEANWHILE, THE MORE THAN 3 1/2 MILLION UKRAINIANS HAVE FLED THEIR COUNTRY AND THE U.S. HAS NOW PLEDGED TO ALLOW ABOUT 100,000 OF THEM TO COME HERE.

IN YOUR MIND, IS THAT ENOUGH?

IS THAT WELCOMING ENOUGH ON THE PART OF THE U.S.?

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S A VERY GOOD START AS FAR AS 100,000 REFUGEES COMING TO THE UNITED STATE, THOSE WOULD BE PAIRED UP WITH EXISTING FAMILY MEMBERS WHO ARE ALREADY HERE, SO IT SHOULD BE A QUICK VETTING PROCESS.

BUT WE'RE HEARING THAT MOST OF THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE WANT TO STAY CLOSE TO UKRAINE.

THEY WANT TO RETURN TO THEIR HOMES AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

AS YOU KNOW, IT WAS THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN THAT LEFT, AND THE MEN ARE LEFT BEHIND TO FIGHT.

I DON'T THINK THEY WANT TO BE SEPARATED THAT FAR RIGHT NOW, SO TRYING TO KEEP THEM AS CLOSE WITH THE HUMANITARIAN AID THAT WE'RE PROVIDING THE NEIGHBORING NATIONS, I THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT APPROACH RIGHT NOW.

>> WHILE WE HAVE YOU HERE, BEFORE YOU STEP DOWN FROM YOUR SEAT, HOW DIFFICULT DO YOU THINK IT WILL BE FOR DEMOCRATS TO HOLD THE THIRD?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK OVERALL, THE DEMOCRATIC MESSAGE IS GOING TO BE VERY STRONG, VERY POWERFUL.

WE'VE DONE OUR BEST TO HELP GET OUT OF THIS COVID CRISIS THE LAST TWO YEARS.

I CAN'T IMAGINE WHERE WE WOULD BE IF THE REPUBLICANS WERE IN CHARGE AND DENYING VACCINATION AND FACE MASKS AND PROTECTING PEOPLE.

WE HAVE A BUILD AMERICA BACK BETTER PLAN WITH INFRASTRUCTURE, BROADBAND, HEALTHCARE AND EDUCATION.

REPUBLICANS ARE OFFERING NOTHING, OTHER THAN BIG LIE ELECTION CONSPIRACY THEORIES AND FRAUDULENT ACCOUNTS THAT DON'T EXIST.

I JUST CAUTION PEOPLE TO BE CAREFUL HOW THEY EXERCISE THIS VOTE THIS YEAR.

THERE'S ONE MAJOR PARTY, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, WHO BELIEVES THAT ONLY -- THE ONLY LEGITIMATE ELECTION OUTCOME IS THE ONE THAT THEY WIN, AND THAT'S A VERY DANGEROUS PLACE FOR OUR DEMOCRACY TO BE RIGHT NOW.

>> CONGRESSMAN RON KIND, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

THE >> MY PLEASURE.

>> ALSO IN WASHINGTON, KU SUPREME COURT JUSTICE NOMINEE JUDGE KETANJI BROWN JACKSON SAT DOWN BEFORE THE SENATE JEW DISH RATHER COMMITTEE AND FIELDED HEATED QUESTIONS.

THE COMMITTEE'S CHAIRMAN HAS CALLED FOR AN EXECUTIVE SESSION AS EARLY AS APRIL 4, WHEN THE COMMITTEE'S VOTE ON HER NOMINATION IS EXPECTED TO TAKE PLACE.

JUDGE JACKSON IS THOUGHT TO HAVE MAINTAINED HER COMPOSURE IN THE MIDST OF INTENSE GRILLING.

>> I WAS ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE, CLEARLY, I THINK, THAT THE PARTICULAR PARTIES IN THE CASE, THE ISSUES IN THE CASE, WHAT IT'S ABOUT, FROM A STANDPOINT OF PERSONAL PREFERENCE IS NOT AN ISSUE.

I'M SETTING THOSE THINGS ASIDE.

I AM RULING FROM A POSITION OF NEUTRALITY AND TRYING TO DETERMINE IN EVERY CASE WHAT THE LAW REQUIRES.

I AM COMMITTED, I THINK MY RECORD SHOWS, TO THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT IS THE ROLE AND THE ONLY APPROPRIATE ROLE FOR A JUDGE.

>> WISCONSIN'S SENATORS HAD THIS TO SAY ABOUT JUDGE JACKSON.

DEMOCRAT TAMMY BALDWIN SAID, QUOTE, JUDGE JACKSON IS EXTREMELY WELL QUALIFIED AND HAS STRONG EXPERIENCE WORKING AS A FEDERAL JUDGE.

SHE HAS A PROVEN RECORD OF BEING AN IMPARTIAL, FAIR AND INDEPENDENT JUDGE WHO IS GUIDED BY THE RULE OF LAW, AND THE SENATE HEARINGS MADE THAT CLEAR THIS WEEK.

JUDGE JACKSON HAS SHOWN SHE HAS THE CHARACTER, TEMPERAMENT AND EXPERIENCE WE WOULD WANT IN A JUSTICE ON THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT.

A SPOKESPERSON FOR REPUBLICAN SENATOR RON JOHNSON SAID, HE WANTS TO CONFIRM JUDGES THAT APPLY THE LAW AND WILL NOT BE JUDICIAL ACTIVISTS.

FROM TESTIMONY THIS WEEK, IT SEEMS THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS NOMINATED A SUPREME COURT JUSTICE WHO WILL TEND TO IMPOSE HER POLICY PREFERENCES FROM THE BENCH.

HOWEVER, HE LOOKS FORWARD TO MEETING WITH JUDGE JACKSON IN PERSON TO HAVE A THOROUGH DISCUSSION REGARDING HER RECORD, JUDICIAL PHILOSOPHY, AND ADHERENCE TO THE CONSTITUTION.

BOTH SENATORS HAVE PLANS TO MEET WITH JUDGE JACKSON IN PERSON AHEAD OF THE FULL SENATE VOTE ON HER CONFIRMATION.

AT THIS MOMENT, WISCONSIN HAS NO MAPS SHOWING LEGISLATIVE VOTING BOUNDARIES.

BECAUSE THE U.S. SUPREME COURT THIS WEEK REJECTED WISCONSIN'S NEW ELECTION MAPS PUT FORTH BY DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR TONY EVERS.

REPUBLICANS ARGUED EVERS' MAPS VIOLATE THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT BY IMPROPERLY USING RACE IN SETTING SEVEN MAJORITY BLACK DISTRICTS IN THE MILWAUKEE AREA, COMPARED TO THE FORMER FIVE DISTRICTS.

THE NATION'S HIGHEST COURT SAID WISCONSIN'S SUPREME COURT SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT WHETHER A RACE-NEUTRAL ALTERNATIVE THAT DID NOT ADD A SEVENTH MAJORITY-BLACK DISTRICT WOULD DENY BLACK VOTERS EQUAL POLITICAL OPPORTUNITY.

SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER ZAC SCHULTZ JOINS US TO EXPLAIN THE RULING.

HI, ZAC.

>> HELLO, FREDERICA.

>> SO BY YOUR READ, DID THE RULING FROM THE U.S. SUPREME COURT COME AS A SURPRISE HERE?

>> I THINK IT DID DO A LOT OF OBSERVERS, SIMPLY BECAUSE THE COURT HAS BEEN CONSISTENT IN THESE REDISTRICTING DECISIONS OVER THE PAST COUPLE YEARS THAT WENT THIS CLOSE TO AN ELECTION, THEY PREFER TO DEFER TO THE STATE COURTS IN THESE CASES.

THEY'VE DONE THAT IN NORTH CAROLINA, IN PENNSYLVANIA, AND IN ALABAMA ON ANOTHER VOTING RIGHTS ACT-TYPE DECISION.

SO IN THIS CASE, A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE THINKING IT'S TOO CLOSE, ESPECIALLY WITH THE CANDIDATES ABOUT TO START CIRCULATING NOMINATION PAPERS IN THE NEXT MONTH, SO THAT WAS THE SURPRISE.

>> SO THE HIGH COURT SENDS IT BACK TO WISCONSIN JUSTICES, TELLING BASICA THEM BASICALLY TE IT OUT.

HOW INCLINED ARE WISCONSIN'S JUSTICES TO GET INTO THE BUSINESS OF DRAWING THESE MAPS?

>> WELL, I THINK THEY WANTED TO AVOID DRAWING THE MAPS FROM THE BEGINNING.

THAT'S WHY THEY WENT THE ROUTE THEY WENT, WHICH IS CHOOSING FROM A REPUBLICAN MAP OR GOVERNOR EVERS' MAPS.

IN THIS CASE, REMEDYING THE SITUATION THAT THE U.S. SUPREME COURT SAYS NEEDS TO BE FIXED INCLUDING ADJUSTING THESE BOUNDARIES GIVES THEM A COUPLE OF CASES.

GOVERNOR EVERS WOULD SAY LET'S FIGHT JUSTIFY THE MAPS YOU ALREADY EXIST OR YOU CHOSE OR THEY COULD SLIGHTLY ADJUST HIS MAPS.

REPUBLICANS, OF COURSE, ARE SAYING, HEY, USE OUR MAP, IT DOESN'T VIOLATE THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT AND IT'S CLOSE ENOUGH TO WHAT SOME OF THE OTHER MEASURES THE WISCONSIN SUPREME COURT WANTED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

SO THEY MAY ADJUST BOUNDARIES OR THEY MAY PICK BETWEEN ONE OR TWO.

>> SO JUSTICE HAGEDORN WAS THE SWING VOTE IN WISCONSIN THAT APPROVED THE EVERS MAPS.

WILL ALL EYES BE ON HIM THIS ROUND?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

HE'S BEEN THE SWING VOTE ON ALL OF THESE REALLY IMPORTANT DECISIONS ALL ALONG.

THERE'S THREE LIBERALS, THERE'S THREE CONSERVATIVES, AND JUSTICE HAGEDORN IS CLEARLY A CONSERVATIVE IN MINDSET BUT HE HAS APPROACHED THINGS DIFFERENTLY AND INDEPENDENTLY IN A LOT OF THESE CASES, AND HE WAS THE ONE THAT SET THE STANDARD FOR THE LEAST CHANGE MODEL THAT THE COURT DECIDED TO ADAPT IN PICKING THE MAPS AND HE'S THE ONE WHO SIDED WITH LIBERALS WHEN THEY DECIDED TO PICK THE EVERS MAPS SAYING DID THAT FIT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

SO HE IS WHO EVERYONE IS GOING TO BE APPEALING TO.

>> SO TONY EVERS IS ALREADY WANTING TO SUBMIT TO THE STATE SUPREME COURT NEW EVIDENCE IN SUPPORT OF HIS MAPS AND EVEN CHANGES TO HIS MAPS.

WHAT'S HAPPENING THERE?

>> WELL, HE'S LOOKING AT TWO DIFFERENT OPTIONS FOR HOW TO KEEP HIS WHOLE MAP IN PLACE.

EITHER BY MAKING MINOR ADJUSTMENTS IN THE MILWAUKEE AREA AND HOPING THAT SATISFIES THE WISCONSIN SUPREME COURT AND THE U.S. SUPREME COURT, OR HE'D LIKE TO KEEP HIS ORIGINAL MAP AND MAKE A FURTHER JUSTIFICATION TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT OF WHY HIS DISTRICTS ACTUALLY ARE LEGAL UNDER THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT.

THE CRUX OF THAT ARGUMENT THERE IS THAT HE SAYS HE DIDN'T GET TO MAKE THE FULL CASE IN THE FIRST PLACE, AND THE U.S. SUPREME COURT WANTED EVIDENCE THAT IT NEVER RECEIVED IN MAKING THE DECISION TO SAY THAT THERE WAS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR CREATING THAT SEVENTH BLACK-MAJORITY DISTRICT IN MILWAUKEE.

>> SO HOW MUCH IS TIME OF THE ESSENCE HERE?

IS IT CRITICAL?

>> ABSOLUTELY, BECAUSE WE'RE ONLY A FEW WEEKS AWAY FROM CANDIDATES BEING ABLE TO TAKE OUT NOMINATION PAPERS IN THESE ASSEMBLY AND STATE SENATE DISTRICTS AROUND THE STATE, AND THEY NEED TO KNOW THE BOUNDARIES, BECAUSE THEY CAN ONLY COLLECT SIGNATURES FROM ELIGIBLE VOTERS WITHIN THEIR DISTRICT.

AND THIS GETS BACK TO THE QUESTION OF WHICH MAPS MIGHT BE CHOSEN.

BECAUSE IF THEY END UP JUST MODIFYING THE EVERS MAP OR JUSTIFYING IT, THEN THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE STATE'S DRIJT DRICT LISTATE'S DISTRICTLINES HE BEEN WORKING ON BOUNDARIES OF WHICH WARD IS IN WHICH DISTRICT SO PEOPLE KNOW WHERE TO GO.

BUT IF THE WISCONSIN SUPREME COURT CHANGES COURSE DIRECTLY AND SAYS WE'RE GOING TO USE THE REPUBLICAN MAP, WELL, THAT MEANS EVERY DISTRICT IN THE STATE CHANGES, EVERY CLERK IN THE STATE HAS TO START REDRAWING THOSE BOUNDARIES, AND ALL THOSE CANDIDATES MAY BE CIRCULATING PAPERS WITHOUT KNOWING WHERE THEY ACTUALLY WILL BE RUNNING.

>> SO WHAT DO YOU THINK CLERKS ARE THINKING RIGHT ABOUT NOW?

>> WELL, CLERKS HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH A LOT THE LAST TWO YEARS.

THEY'VE DEALT WITH ELECTIONS DURING A PANDEMIC, THEY'VE HAD THE COURTS AND LEGISLATURE CHANGE THINGS AT THE LAST MINUTE IN ALL THESE ELECTIONS AND NOW THEY'VE BEEN DEALING WITH ALL THESE CONSPIRACY THEORISTS ACCUSING THEM OF FRAUD.

SO THEY'RE USED TO BEING IN THE HOT SEAT IN WISCONSIN ELECTIONS BUT THIS IS JUST ONE MORE THING THEY HAVE TO DEAL WITH.

ULTIMATELY IT'S UP TO EACH CANDIDATE TO CIRCULATE NOMINATION PAPERS IN THE CORRECT DISTRICTS BUT THEY'RE RELYING ON CLERKS TO HAVE THOSE DISTRICTS SETS.

THEY'VE BEEN WORKING OVERTIME SINCE THE ORIGINAL EVERS MAPS HAVE BEEN CHOSEN A FEW WEEKS AGO AND THEY HAVE AN EVEN SHORTER DEADLINE TO FINALIZE THESE.

>> MEANWHILE SCOTUS LEFT IN PLACE THE EVERS CONGRESSIONAL MAPS MAKING THE FIRST DISTRICT MORE COMPETITIVE.

REPUBLICANS WANT TO CHALLENGE THAT.

DOES THAT CHALLENGE HAVE LEGS?

>> WELL, WHO KNOWS?

IT'S THE WISCONSIN SUPREME COURT.

THEY ORIGINALLY SAID THOSE MAPS WERE FINE AND THE APPEAL WAS DENIED BY THE U.S. SUPREME COURT, SO YOU WOULDN'T THINK THE WISCONSIN SUPREME COURT WOULD REVISIT THAT DECISION, BUT ONCE IT'S BACK IN THEIR COURT, THEY CAN MAKE ANY DECISION THEY WANT AND JUSTIFY IT REALLY ANY WHICH WAY THEY WANT.

>> ZAC SCHULTZ, THANKS VERY MUCH.

THANKS FOR UNTANGLING THIS FOR US.

>> MY PLEASURE.

>> IN OTHER NEWS, THE SCOURGE, TRAUMA AND COST OF DRUG OVERDOSE DEATHS IN WISCONSIN PROMPTED THE PASS ANGPASSAGE OF A NEW STATE S MONTH THAT LEGALIZES A SCREENING TEST FORMERLY CONSIDERED ILLEGAL DRUG PARAPHERNALIA.

THE TESTS ARE DESIGNED TO DETECT THE DEADLY ADDITIVE FENTANYL, AND IN MILWAUKEE, FOR THOSE IN PUBLIC HEALTH, THEIR NEW LEGAL USE IS HEAVEN-SENT.

>> IT'S A BLESSING.

IT IS A BLESSING THAT THESE ARE NOW LEGAL.

>> RAFAEL MERCADO IS A COMMUNITY OUTREACH WORKER.

>> WHAT I DO IS WE COME OUT AND I HAVE PACKAGES SIMILAR TO THIS, AND WE HAND THEM OUT.

>> WHO DISTRIBUTES FENTANYL TEST STRIPS IN MILWAUKEE, INCLUDING TO PEOPLE IN HIS OWN NEIGHBORHOOD ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE CITY.

>> TAKE IT OUT, IF YOU USE THE DRUG, TEST IT, DROP IT IN THE URINE, AND JUST LIKE A PREGNANCY TEST.

IT WILL GIVE YOU ONE LINE, TWO LINES, AND THEN ONE THAT WILL BE HIGHER.

>> MERCADO LIVES IN THE HOT SPOT FOR OVERDOSE DEATHS IN MILWAUKEE COUNTY.

A COUNTY THAT SAW MORE THAN 7,000 O.D.s IN 2021, MORE THAN 600 OF THEM FATAL.

80% OF OVERDOSE DEATHS ARE CAUSED BY FENTANYL, A POWERFUL OPIOID MIXED INTO OTHER DRUGS BY DEALERS TO INCREASE POTENCY, AND THAT EVEN IN TRACE AMOUNTS CAN BE DEADLY.

>> THEY'RE NOT TRYING TO KILL THEIR SELVES.

THEY'RE TRYING TO MASK A PAIN.

>> THE PROBLEM IS SO COMMONPLACE THAT EVEN AS WE TALKED TO MERCADO OUTSIDE THE 16TH STREET CLINIC IN MILWAUKEE, A PERSON OVERDOSED DOWN THE BLOCK.

PARAMEDICS REVIVED HIM.

>> THE OVERDOSE DEATHS HAVE INCREASED FOR SEVERAL YEARS IN A ROW WHERE WE'VE HAD A NEW RECORD.

SO WE ARE JUST AT UNPRECEDENTED NUMBERS.

>> MICHAEL LAPPEN IS ADMINISTRATOR FOR THE MILWAUKEE COUNTY BEHAVIORAL HEALTH DIVISION.

>> I SAID YOU'RE GOOD TO WALK.

>> PARTNERS WITH MERCADO WHO HITS THE STREETS.

>> YOU DIP IT IN, WAIT ABOUT FIVE MINUTES.

SO IF YOU GET TWO LINES, IT'S A NEGATIVE.

ONE, THE HIGH IS POSITIVE.

>> THEY JUST GOT ME HANDING OUT MORE FENTANYL STRIPS.

I'M HANDING OUT MORE OF THEM FENTANYL TESTING STRIPS.

>> MERCADO SAYS THE IDEA FOR PEOPLE TO USE VERY SMALL AMOUNTS OF THEIR HEROIN, TEST, AND HAVE THE EMERGENCY O.D.

REVIVING SPRAY NARCAN AT THE READY.

AND SO HOW IMPORTANT IS THE LEGALIZATION OF THESE FENTANYL TEST STRIPS?

>> WELL, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT ALLOWS PEOPLE TO MAKE INFORMED DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE INGESTING.

SO IF SOMEONE TESTS THEIR DRUGS AND THEY IDENTIFY FENTANYL, THEY KNOW PERHAPS I SHOULD HAVE NALOXONE OR NARCAN AVAILABLE.

MAYBE THEY USE WITH A PARTNER SO THEY CAN KEEP EACH OTHER SAFE.

MAYBE THEY REDUCE THEIR DOSAGE, AND MAYBE THEY DON'T USE IT AT ALL.

>> AS AN AMBULANCE TEARS AWAY, CARRYING AN O.D.

VICTIM, WHAT ABOUT THE QUESTION OF WHETHER HANDING OUT PACKAGES OF TEST STRIPS AND NARCAN ENCOURAGES DRUG USE?

>> WELL, PEOPLE SAY THAT.

YOU KNOW, FOLKS HAVE SAID THAT ALL THESE HARM REDUCTION INITIATIVES JUST ENABLE DRUG USE.

I COMPLETELY DISAGREE.

I BELIEVE THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING IS WE'RE MAINTAINING SAFETY, KEEPING PEOPLE ALIVE LONG ENOUGH FOR THEM TO GET INTO RECOVERY.

>> WISCONSIN LEGALIZED FENTANYL TEST STRIPS IN MID MARCH, BEFORE THE LAW CHANGED, THEY WERE ILLEGAL.

CONSIDERED DRUG PARAPHERNALIA.

MILWAUKEE COUNTY STARTED DISTRIBUTING 1600 OF THEM, WITH MORE TO COME.

>> THE THEME IS, WHATEVER WE CAN DO TO KEEP PEOPLE ALIVE, WE WANT TO DO THAT IN OUR COMMUNITY.

>> YOU KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE FOR A MOM TO HAVE TO BURY THEIR SON OR DAUGHTER OR LOVED ONE, THEIR HUSBAND?

I'M NOT ENABLING NOBODY.

I'M SAVING THEIR LIFE.

>> MILWAUKEE COUNTY EXPECTS TO RECEIVE A LARGER STOCK OF THE TEST STRIPS FROM STATE FUNDS COMING FROM A SETTLEMENT IN A LAWSUIT AGAINST OPIOID MANUFACTURERS.

FOR MORE ON THIS AND OTHER ISSUES FACING WISCONSIN, VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT PBSWISCONSIN.ORG AND THEN CLICK ON THE NEWS TAB.

THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.

I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.

HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND.

>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS WISCONSIN.