>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS PART OF OUR "HERE & NOW" 2022 ELECTION COVERAGE.

AFTER A LONG AN EXPENSIVE CAMPAIGN SEASON, ELECTION DAY IS FINALLY ALMOST HERE.

AND CANDIDATES ARE PULLING OUT ALL THE STOPS MAKING THEIR FINAL BIDS TO VOTERS.

I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.

TONIGHT ON "HERE & NOW", ZAC SCHULTZ REPORTS ON THE GOVERNOR'S RACE AND THE FUTURE OF PUBLIC EDUCATION.

THE LATEST MARQUETTE LAW SCHOOL SURVEY AND ABOUT WHAT THE ROLES VOTERS CAN PLAY.

>> FUNDED IS PROVIDED BY: >> Frederica: IN JUST A FEW DAYS, VOTERS WILL GO TO THE POLLS AND DECIDE WHAT THE FUTURE OF WISCONSIN GOVERNMENT WILL LOOK LIKE.

DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR TONY EVERS SAID HE'S VETOED BILLS PASSED BY A REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE AND HE CAN EXPECT THE SAME AS IT'S ASSURED TO REMAIN IN REPUBLICAN HANDS AND OTHERS WILL TRANSFORM WISCONSIN FOR YEARS TO COME AND PUBLIC EDUCATION IS A FOCUS ON HOW SCHOOLS SHOULD OPERATE.

ZAC SCHULTZ REPORTS.

>> WE'LL STOP THE CRT AND GET BACK TO THE ABCs.

>> REPUBLICAN TIM MICHELS PLANS CAN BE REDUCED TO ONE LINE.

>> WE'LL STOP THE CRT AND GET BACK TO THE ABCs.

>> WE'RE GOING TO STOP THE CRT AND GET BACK TO THE ABC.

>> TIME IS UP, GOVERNOR.

>> CRTs ARE NOT TAUGHT AND ABCs ARE.

MOST PARENTS TEACH IT AT HOME.

>> IT'S SHORT FOR CRT CRT.

A COLLEGE-LEVEL POLITICAL THEORY WHICH USES RACE AS A LENS TO EXAMINE HISTORY BUT IT'S BECOME PART OF THE ONGOING CULTURE WARS THAT DRIVE REPUBLICAN TURNOUT AT THE POLLS.

>> NOW IT'S ALL ABOUT THE ACRONYMS LGBTQ AND BLM.

>> WHEN YOU START PICKING PEOPLE OUT WHETHER IT'S BLACK KIDS, BROWN KIDS, LGBTQ KIDS, WOKENESS, ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU DIVIDED EVERYBODY AND THAT DOES NOTHING FOR A CONVERSATION.

IT SOUNDS LIKE SOMEBODY THAT IS NEVER WALKED THROUGH A PUBLIC SCHOOL IN THEIR LIFE.

>> DEMOCRAT TONY EVERS IS COMFORTABLE IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS EVEN IF THEY CONFUSE HIM.

>> YOU LOOK LIKE SOMEBODY I KNOW.

>> I'M GOVERNOR OF THE STATE OF WISCONSIN.

YOU MAY HAVE SEEN ME ON TV.

>> YOU LOOK LIKE JOE BIDEN.

>> THAT'S A COMPLIMENT.

>> PRIOR TO BECOMING GOVERNOR, HE SPENT HIS ENTIRE CAREER IN EDUCATION AS A TEACHER, ADMINISTRATOR AND SUPERINTENDENT AND WANTS TO PROPOSE ADDITIONAL SPEND NEXT BUDGET.

>> WE NEED MORE RESOURCES FOR THEM.

NO QUESTION.

>> TIM MICHELS MADE HIS POSITION CLEAR IN NUMEROUS SPEECHES BUT WAS NOT AVAILABLE.

>> OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM IS BROKEN IN WISCONSIN.

WE'RE THROWING SO MUCH MONEY AT EDUCATION IT'S BEEN THE FIX, IF YOU WILL, THE LAST 20, 30 YEARS MORE MONEY AT EDUCATION, MORE MONEY AT EDUCATION AND IT'S NOT WORKING.

THE DEFINITION OF INSANITY WE'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT.

>> HIS SOLUTION IS UNIVERSAL SCHOOL CHOICE.

>> WE'LL HAVE EDUCATION REFORM.

WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO?

UNIVERSAL SCHOOL CHOICE.

>> HIS WEBSITE IS LIGHT ON SPECIFICS BUT IT WOULD LIKELY LIFT THE ENROLLMENT AND INCOME CAPS ON THE VOUCHER PROGRAMS ALLOWING WEALTHY PROGRAMS TO USE TAX DOLLARS TO PAY PRIVATE SCHOOL AND THE PROBLEM IS WHEN THEY LEAVE THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS THEY STILL TO PAY THE LIGHT BILL AND THEY'RE REQUIRED TO RAISE PROPERTY TAXES TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE.

>> IT WILL BE A PROPERTY TAX INCREASE.

>> HIS PLAN IS NEEDED BY POINTING TO A HANDFUL OF MILWAUKEE SCHOOLS IN BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS THAT SAW READING SCORES CRASH DURING COVID.

>> BABY GIRLS HAVE ZERO CHANCE AT BEING SUCCESSFUL IN LIFE UNLESS WE CHANGE EDUCATION.

THAT'S WHY IT'S THE FOUNDATION OF WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO.

WE'RE GETTING UNIVERSAL SCHOOL CHOICE AND GET MILWAUKEE IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

>> THE PROBLEM IS MILWAUKEE'S HAD A VOUCHER PROGRAM FOR THREE DECADES.

UNIVERSAL SCHOOL CHOICE WON'T CHANGE THE SITUATION THERE AT ALL.

ATTACKING SCHOOLS MAY BE GOOD POLITICS BUT EVERS SAYS IT'S DANGEROUS POLICY.

>> WHAT'S IT DO TO OUR INSTITUTIONS IN THE MEANTIME?

IT DESTROYS THEM.

SO IT'S POLITICS AT ITS WORSE.

>> AND THEY MAY TURN INTO POLICY.

THE VETO OF A REPUBLICAN BILL THAT WOULD HAVE ALLOWED PARENTS TO SUE OVER THE USE OF NAMES AND PRONOUNS FOR TRANSGENDER KIDS.

MICHELS WOULD SIGN IT.

>> IF MY OPPONENT IS ELECTED IT WILL IMPACT REPRODUCTIVE SKILLS AND YOU NAME IT, WISCONSIN WILL BE A DIFFERENT PLACE.

>> WE KNOW THEY'RE INDOCTRINATING OUR CHILDREN.

>> IN HIS SPEECHES TO CONSERVATIVE AUDIENCES HIS RHETORIC IS MORE INFLAMED.

>> IT'S A CULTURAL SHIFT THE LEFT WANTS PART OF DESTROYING AMERICA.

>> HE LINKED PUBLIC SCHOOLS ONE THE NUMBER OF MOVEMENTS CONNECTED TO BLACK AMERICA.

>> WE BELIEVE THE COUNTRY IS ON A SLIPPERY SLOPE TO SOCIALIVELY AND CLOAKED BEHIND CRT AND BLM AND DEFUND THE POLICE.

>> TO EVERS THE RACIST UNDER TONES SHOULD NOT BE IGNORED.

>> THERE'S A LOT OF HARM THAT'S DONE BY DIVIDING PEOPLE.

THAT'S HOW TRUMP DOES ITS AND MY OPPONENT DOES IT.

>> GOVERNOR DeSANTIS PRAISE MICHELS.

>> YOU'LL BE ABLE TO DO IT IN WISCONSIN AND THEN SOMEWHAT WE DID IN FLORIDA.

>> HE SIGNED A BILL THE CRITICS SAY THE DON'T SAY GAY BILL PREVENTING ELEMENTARY TEACHERS FROM TALKING ABOUT SEXUAL ORIENTA ORIENTATION.

>> WE DON'T NEED DeSANTIS TO TELL US HOW TO DO THINGS.

>> THE POLITICS AREN'T GOOD FOR WISCONSIN SCHOOLS.

>> IF MY OPPONENT'S ELECTED WE COULD BE LIKE FLORIDA -- WELL, EXACTLY THINKS THAT'S A GOOD IDEA?

>> HOW DID MICHELS WANT STUDENTS EDUCATED ON THE ISSUE OF RACE AND GENDER?

>> WE'LL LET PARENTS DECIDE NOT WOKE EDUCRATS.

>> HE BELIEVES THERE'S A LIBERAL KABAL IN EVERY SCHOOL DISTRICT IN THE IS THAT RIGHT IS WOKE, WHATEVER THAT MEANS.

>> WE NEED TO MAKE SURE KIDS SEE THEMSELVES REPRESENTED IN THE HISTORY WE TEACH.

>> STATE SUPERINTENDENT JILL UNDERLY SAID CRITICAL RACE THEORY NOT A SUBJECT TAUGHT IN K-12 SCHOOLS BUT WHAT YOU'RE ASKING ARE WE TEACHING STUDENTS ABOUT RACE AND RACISM, THEN THE ANSWER IS AND SHOULD BE YES.

THAT'S WHAT HAS MICHELS UPSET.

>> I DISAGREE WITH THE STATEMENT FREDRICA THAT EVERYTHING IS BEING TAUGHT PROPERLY.

PARENTS HAVE SHOWN ME THE STUFF TAUGHT TO THEIR KIDS IN SCHOOL AND OUTRAGED AND DON'T LIKE IT.

>> EVERS SAID MICHELS IS TRYING TO USE THAT TO GET ELECT.

>> PEOPLE CAN'T DEFINE IT AND THEN PEOPLE GET ANGRY WITH EACH OTHER.

IT'S A WAY OF DIVIDING PEOPLE AND IF YOU DIVIDE PEOPLE AND IN SUCH A WAY THAT 51% BELIEVE YOU, YOU'LL GET ELECTED.

>> REPORT FROM MADISON, I'M ZAC SCHULTZ FOR HERE AND NOW.

>> Frederica: WE HAVE A CORRECTION FROM LAST WEEK.

WE MIS-IDENTIFIED STACY SCOGGIN.

WE HAVE THE LATEST POLL AHEAD OF THE ELECTION.

MARQUETTE LAW SCHOOL POLL DIRECTOR JOINS US.

THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> Frederica: WE HAVE A TOSS-UP AND A DEAD HEAT WITH EVERS AND MICHELS EACH AT 48% AMONG LIKELY VOTERS.

THIS HAS MOVED IN MICHEL'S DIRECTION.

WHAT DO ADS DO TO THE VOTERS?

>> WE'VE SEEN A SMALL BUT CONSISTENT TIGHTENING IN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE.

I THINK THE CAMPAIGN HAS TO DO WITH THE ADVERTISING IS VOLUMINOUS MORE THAN IN PREVIOUS RACE.

SO PEOPLE ARE CONSTANTLY EXPOSED TO CAMPAIGN MESSAGES WHETHER THAT PRODUCES A TIGHTER RACE OR NOT I DON'T KNOW BUT CERTAINLY IT MEANS THAT VOTERS HAVE GAINED INFORMATION ABOUT THE CANDIDATES AND FORMED OPINIONS ABOUT THEM ESPECIALLY TIM MICHELS THE CHALLENGER.

TONY EVERS THEIR VIEWS HAVEN'T CHANGE AS MUCH ON HIM >> Frederica: TURNOUT WILL BE EVERYTHING.

>> TURNOUT WILL BE EVERYTHING A, BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS EVERYTHING, BUT ALSO HERE IN WISCONSIN WHERE WE'RE LOOKING AT SUCH A CLOSE RACE, TIED AT 48% IN OUR POLL DOESN'T GET ANY CLOSER THAN THAT.

EVEN LITTLE CHANGES MATTER AND SO YOU'RE SEEING BOTH PARTIES PULLING OUT ALL THE STOPS THIS WEEK AND OVER THE WEEKEND TO TRY TO GET EVERY LAST SINGLE VOTER THEY CAN GET.

BECAUSE WE'RE PAST THE POINT WHERE THERE'S VERY MANY PEOPLE TO INFLUENCE.

>> Frederica: AND SINCE YOUR LAST PAUL BONDS HAS MOVED UP.

GOING INTO THIS RON JOHNSON WAS REGARDED AS ONE OF THE MOST VULNERABLE RE-ELECTION BY THE NATIONAL PUNDITS.

WHAT'S RESPONSIBLE AMONG WISCONSIN VOTERS FOR HIM MAINTAINING HIS STAYING POWER?

>> AS WE SAW IN 2016 WHEN JOHNSON WON RE-ELECTION THE LAST TIME, HE STARTED THE YEAR VIEWED UNFAVORABLY BY QUITE A BIT OF ABOUT 9 OR 10 POINTS UNFAVORABLE THAN FAVORABLE VIEWS.

OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEAR IN EACH POLL HE'S GOTTEN JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE FAVORABLE AND HIS NET NOW IS JUST BARELY NET NEGATIVE.

SO HE'S STILL A LITTLE NET NEGATIVE BUT IMPROVED OVER THE COURSE OF THE XAVCAMPAIGN.

THAT'S THE SAME WHEN HE STARTED LAST TIME AND CAUGHT UP.

WE SEE TIGHTENING WHERE WE HAD JOHNSON UP 6 POINTS TO TODAY UP BY 2 POINTS BUT DIDN'T REALIZE IT REPRESENTS A 2-POINT CHANGE IN BARNES' FAVOR AND AGAINST JOHNSON.

WE'RE REALLY LOOKING AT 2-POINT CHANGE ON EACH OF THE CANDIDATES.

THAT'S ALL IT TOOK TO GO FROM A 6-POINT TO 2-POINT LEAD.

> Frederica: IN THE CARES ABOUT PEOPLE LIKE ME, CATEGORY, BOTH HAVE IT OVER THE REPUBLICANS 52% OF OF RESPONDENTS SAID TONY EVERS CARES WITH 40% SAYING HE DOESN'T.

THAT'S COMPARED TO TIM MICHELS WHERE 43% SAID HE CARES ABOUT PEOPLE LIKE THEM AND 46% SAID HE DOESN'T CARE.

DO PEOPLE VOTE BASED ON THIS PERCEPTION?

>> WE ALWAYS THINK SO BUT I PUT THE QUESTION IN IN PART TO SEE THIS.

THE DEMOCRAT HAS THE ADVANTAGE YET THE RACE IS TIED.

MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE OF THE ADVANTAGE ON THE PERSONAL CHARACTERISTIC IS WHY EVERS IS DOING AS WELL AS HE DID AND IF HE DIDN'T HE MAY BE TRAIL.

ON THE OTHER HAND, THE PARTISAN TIES MAY INFLUENCE VOTING FOR A CANDIDATE WHEN WE DON'T THINK THEY'RE TERRIFIC OR CARE MORE ABOUT ME.

>> Frederica: IN THE SENATE RACE 49% SAID MENDELA BARNES CARES ABOUT PEOPLE LIKE THEM WITH 42% SAYING AND FOR JOHNSON 49% SAID HE DOESN'T.

IS THIS MOSTLY ABOUT RICH VERSUS WORKING CLASS OR IS THERE SOMETHING MORE HERE?

>> I WONDER ABOUT THAT.

IT'S INTERESTING THAT DESPITE THE NEGATIVE CAMPAIGN ADS THAT WE'VE SEEN THROUGH THE YEAR, BARNES MAINTAINS THIS ADVANTAGE THOUGH OUT OF THOSE ATTACKS ARE DIRECTED AT HIM.

WE DID ASK FOR THE CLASS QUESTION, DO EACH OF THESE CANDIDATES CARE -- WHO BETTER UNDERSTANDS THE PROBLEMS OF ORDINARY PEOPLE IN WISCONSIN?

WE PUT THAT THERE BECAUSE WE HAVE TWO MILLIONAIRES RUNNING AGAINST TWO NON-MILLIONAIRES.

YOU MAY THINK SOCIAL CLASS WOULD MATTER BUT WE SAY THE DEMOCRATS HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF AN ADVANTAGE ON THAT BUT NOT REALLY A LOT.

IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE BEING WEALTHY AS A CANDIDATE MAKES PEOPLE THINK YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE ORDINARY PROBLEMS.

>> Frederica: FOR YOUR POLLING OF ALL REGISTERED VOTERS IT'S IN VIOLENCE AND EDUCATION AND THE RANKING OF ISSUES DOES NOT FULLY COMFORT WITH WHAT VOTERS ARE ECHOING.

FOR DEMOCRATS INFLATION COMES IN AT 5 AND ABORTION AT NUMBER 1.

FOR REPUBLICANS, VOTE COUNT ANG RASSY IS ONE AND INFLATION AND THEN CRIME IS THREE.

FOR ALL REGISTERED VOTERS AND INDEPENDENT VOTERS PUBLIC SCHOOLS VOTE HIGHER THAN FOR EITHER DEMS OR GOP AND INDEPENDENTS TRACK ISSUE TO REGISTERED VOTERS THAN MAJOR PARTY RESPONDENTS.

WHAT'S THIS SAY FOR HOW THE PARTIES DECIDE FOR THE VOTERS INSTEAD THE OTHER WAY AROUND?

>> I THINK WHEN WE SEE THE PARTIES TALK ABOUT ISSUES AT THE TOP OF THEIR LIST YOU'RE SEEING AN APPEAL TO THE BASE.

REPUBLICANS PUSHED CRIME AN ISSUE WHICH NEAR THE TOP FOR THEIR VOTERS AND DEMOCRATS PUSHED ABORTION.

WHOSE SPEAKING TO THE INDEPENDENTS THEY'RE A MIX.

>> Frederica: CHARLES FRANKLIN AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK.

>> THANK YOU, NOW EVERYBODY GO VOTE.

>> Frederica: WISCONSIN LEADS THE NATION IN A RANKING OF YOUTH VOTERS THAT ARE LIKELY TO INFLUENCE THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS ACCORDING TO A TUFT'S RESEARCH GROUP SAYING WISCONSIN YOUTHS HAVE HAD ABOVE AVERAGE VOTER ENGAGEMENT IN THE RECENT COMPETITIVE ELECTIONS.

WE TRAVELED ACROSS THE STATE IN LATE SEPTEMBER TO FIND OUT WHAT KINDS OF ISSUES THEY'RE THINKING ABOUT AND HOW THEY VIEW THEIR NEWLY ACQUIRED RIGHT TO VOTE.

>> EVERYBODY HAS DIFFERENT VIEWS BUT THE OPTION THE ABILITY TO VOTE IS WAY TO GET YOUR VIEW OUT, YOUR DECISION NO MATTER WHAT IT IS.

>> I FEEL LIKE IF ONLY ONE TYPE OF PEOPLE VOTE YOU CAN'T GET EVERYONE'S OPINION AND THEN THAT WON'T BE EQUAL.

>> IF I COULDN'T VOTE I COULDN'T TRY TO MAKE AN IMPACT ON WHAT'S GOING ON AROUND ME AND IF I CAN'T MAKE AN IMPACT ON WHAT'S GOING ON AROUND ME I'M JUST LIVING HERE WITHOUT ANY SORT OF ANYTHING GOING ON.

>> I'D SAY IT'S PRETTY IMPORTANT BECAUSE I THINK EVEN ONE PERSON VOTING CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

>> THE RIGHT DO VOTE IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE WITHOUT THE RIGHT TO VOTE COMMUNITIES THAT ARE OPPRESSED DON'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK ORE THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME FORWARD FOR THEIR STORIES FOR THE PEOPLE THEY ELECT TO OFFICE.

>> I THINK AS AN PERSON YOU'RE NOT USING YOUR FULL FREEDOM AND RIGHTS IF YOU DON'T VOTE.

HAVE YOU A SAY IN THE BIG PICTURE AND WHAT'S GOING ON IN GOVERNMENT AND USE THAT VOICE BECAUSE IT DID MATTER.

>> Frederica: THOSE STUDENT INVIEWS WERE CONDUCTED AT SCHOOLS ACROSS THE STATE INCLUDING AT TWO WITH PBS NEWS HOUR REPORTING LABS.

>>> THEY FIRED THE DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF MILWAUKEE ELECTIONS COMMISSION WITH MISDEMEANOR ELECTION FRAUD FOR THREE FAKE MILITARY ABSENTEE BALLOTS.

HERE'S WHAT THE ADMINISTRATOR MEGAN WOLF SAID IN PART.

>> I'M DEEPLY DISAPPOINT IN THIS INDIVIDUAL'S ACTIONS.

THE ELECTION OFFICIAL VIOLATED ELECTION LAW AND UNDERMINE THE TRUST OF THE PUBLIC AND ELECTION WORKERS.

THE ACTION OF THIS SINGLE INDIVIDUAL WERE SWIFTLY DETECTED AND NO IMPACT ON THE NOVEMBER 8 ELECTION.

>> Frederica: IN THE FINAL RUN-UP TO THE NOVEMBER 8 ELECTION, PRESIDENT JILL BIDEN TOOK IN THE AIRWAVES TO DECRY THE POLITICAL VIOLENCE SAYING THE 2020 ELECTION WAS STOLEN FUELED THE CAPITAL INSURRECTION AND THE RECENT ATTACK ON NANCY PELOSI'S HUSBAND.

>> IT'S A LIE THAT FUELED THE RISE IN VIOLENCE AND VOTER INTIMIDATION IN THE PAST TWO YEARS.

>> Frederica: IS THERE A DIRECT LINE FROM DISINFORMATION TO VOTER INTIMIDATION AND POLITICAL VIOLENCE WE MISINFORMATION WITH EXPERT ON POLITICAL COMMUNICATION MIKE WAGNER ALSO ENGAGED IN RESEARCH ON THE TOPIC.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

>> MY PLEASURE.

>> Frederica: IS IT A QUESTION DISINFORMATION FUELS VIOLENCE AND VOTER INTIMIDATION?

>> IT'S A QUESTION AND IT SEEMS TO.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO SEE MISS AND DISINFORMATION ON THEIR SOCIAL MEDIA FEEDS AND MORE EXTREME CORNERS OF THE INTERNET AND IN TERMS OF PEOPLE WHO MEET UP TOGETHER AN THERE ARE DIRECT LINES WE CAN DRAW BETWEEN THE MISINFORMATION ONLINE AND PEOPLE'S BEHAVIOR THAT CAN TURN VIOLENT.

>> Frederica: THIS IS AN OLD QUESTION BUT WHAT DOES WHAT THE PRESIDENT CALLS THE BIG LIE PERSIST EVEN IN THE FACE OF SO MUCH FACT CHECKING AND EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY?

>> PART IS SO MANY PEOPLE ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE OF THE AISLE WHO ARE ELECTED OFFICIALS CONTINUE TO FUEL IT.

MUCH OF THE OPINIONS THAT AMERICANS DEVELOP IS DRIVEN IN PART BY WHAT OUR OFFICIALS SAY AND HELP SHAPE OUR ATTITUDE.

MOST LOOK TO THE LEADER OF THE PARTY WE PREFER TO HELP US MAKE SENSE OF THE WORLD AROUND IF LEADERS ARE SAYING THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN IT BECOMES HARD TO TRUST THE FACT CHECK AND COUPLE THAT WITH THE TALK RADIO AND FAR RIGHT ECOLOGY ON SOCIAL MEDIA SAYING YOU CAN'T TRUST THE NEWS MEDIA YOU HAVE A TOXIC MIX OF DISTRUST.

>> Frederica: HOW MUCH MISINFORMATION OR DISINFORMATION IS FLYING AROUND RIGHT NOW?

>> THERE'S A LOT.

THE TRUTH SENDS TO BE MORE MUNDANE AND DISINFORMATION MORE EMOTIONAL AND WE RECOGNIZE IT AND LIKELY TO GET SHARED SO IT SPREADS FASTER THAN THE TRUTH WHY WE CAN'T CATCH UP.

>> Frederica: SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT THIS ALL THE TIME.

WHAT'S ONE OF THE MOST EGREGIOUS EXAMPLES YOU'VE SEEN.

>> THAT THERE ARE ELECTED OFFICIALS RUNNING SECRET RINGS THAT ABUSE CHILDREN AND OTHERS RELATED TO VACCINATES.

NOT ONLY BECAUSE IT REDUCES THE LIKELIHOOD AND VACCINATION DOWN SO THE SPILLOVER IS HUGE AND HOW IT AFFECTS OTHER ISSUES.

>> Frederica: WHERE'S IT MOST HEAVILY TRAFFICKED?

SOCIAL MEDIA, TWITTER, FACEBOOK IS A PLACE.

OTHER MORE EXTREME, PARLOR, OTHER PLACES WHERE IT PURVEYS QUITE A BIT.

THERE'S A NETWORK OF PEOPLE WILLING TO SHARE IT.

IT'S PROFITABLE TO DO IT.

>> Frederica: WHY DO PEOPLE EMBRACE IT?

>> SOME DO IT BECAUSE IT FEELS GOOD TO SEE THE OTHER SIDE HAVING TO HEAR THE NEGATIVE THINGS ABOUT THEM AND OTHERS DO IT BECAUSE IT'S PROFITABLE OR IT MIGHT HELP THEIR PARTICULAR SIDE GAIN POWER.

OTHERS PREFER CHAOS AND THERE'S A SMALL SUBSET OF PEOPLE WHO ENJOY WATCHING THE WORLD BURN AND MORE THAN HAPPY TO SHARE THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE TO STIR THINGS UP.

>> Frederica: FORMER PRESIDENT OBAMA ASKED WHAT HAPPENS WHEN TRUTH DOESN'T MATTER ANY MORE?

>> WE LOSE A SHARED OPPORTUNITY TO SOLVE PROBLEMS IF WE CAN'T AGREE ON TRUTH HOW CAN WE AGREE ON POTENTIAL WAYS TO SOLVE THE PROBLEMS?

OUR ABILITY TO GOVERNOR OURSELVES IS DEEPLY AFFECTED WHETHER THERE'S COLLECTIVE UNDERSTANDINGS OF WHAT'S VERIFIABLY TRUE.

>> Frederica: IS THAT WHERE WE ARE NOW?

>> I THINK IT'S A LITTLE STRONG BUT BARELY.

I THINK A LOT OF FOLKS STUDYING THESE ISSUES ARE WORRIED PEOPLE MAY SHUT OFF TO UNDERSTANDING THE INFORMATION THAT'S BAD FOR THEIR SIDE SHOULD BE REJECTED AND PEOPLE NEED TO ACCEPT WHEN THEY LOSE AND I'M A VIKINGS FAN, WE'VE NEVER WON A SUPER BOWL AND I WOULD BE LAUGHED OUT OF A ROOM IF I SAID WE HAD AND PEOPLE ARE MAKING THE SAME BIZARRE CLAIMS ON REALLY IMPORTANT ISSUES LIKE WHO WON AN ELECTION OR DOES THE VACCINE CAUSE A PROBLEM.

>> Frederica: SO PERSISTENT DISINFORMATION LIKE THIS STOLEN ELECTION MAY WHIP SOME PEOPLE INTO COMMITTING POLITICAL VIOLENCE BUT WHAT EFFECT DOES THIS HAVE ON THE LONG SIMMER ON FOLKS WHO CRASH THE CAPITAL OR HURT ANYBODY?

>> ONE THING IT DOES IS REDUCES MANY PEOPLE'S BELIEF THAT WE CAN SOLVE PROBLEMS THAT WE CAN WORK TOGETHER TO SOLVE PROBLEMS.

IT LOWERS OUR ABILITY TO WANT TO COMPROMISE WITH THE OTHER SIDE.

IF THE OTHER SIDE IS DANGEROUS AND EVIL WHY WOULD WE WANT TO COMPROMISE.

THERE'S LONG-TERM PROBLEMS IN TERMS OF GENERALIZED PROBLEM SOLVING AND THE LACK OF TRUST IN PEOPLE WHO CAN TELL US VERIFIABLY TRUE INFORMATION AND THERE'S TIMES WHEN WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT'S TRUE AND COULD BE LIFE AND DEATH AND IF WE CANNOT TRUST JOURNALISTS WHO FACE CONSEQUENCES WHEN THEY SAY THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE, IF WE DON'T TRUST THEM WE'RE IN REAL TROUBLE.

>> Frederica: WHAT'S GOING TO BREAK THIS CYCLE?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

I WISH I KNEW THE ANSWER.

I THINK ONE THING THAT CAN HELP IS LISTENING.

I THINK WHEN WE'RE TRYING TO PERSUADE PEOPLE WHO WE KNOW BELIEVE THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE WE SHOULD AIM FOR THE HEART AND