>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL PRODUCTION.

>> THE CONTENTIOUS WOLF HUNT, CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DNR'S POLITICAL POWER STRUGGLE TAKES TO THE COURTS.

THE GOVERNOR WANTS MILLIONS TO GO TOWARD VIOLENCE PREVENTION AND VICTIM AID AS THE PANDEMIC FUELS GUN VIOLENCE AND HOMICIDES.

COVID LONG-HAULERS STRUGGLE TO HEAL FROM THE DISEASE LONG AFTER FIRST BEING INFECTED.

AND A COUNTY ELECTION CLERK EXPLAINS BALLOT SECURITY, INVITING THE LEAD INVESTIGATOR TO GIVE HER TO CALL WITH HIS QUESTIONS.

>> I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.

TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW," WE'LL HEAR FROM THE GREAT LAKES INDIAN AND FISH WILDLIFE COMMISSION.

MARISA WOJCIK SPEAKS WITH THE MILWAUKEE HEALTH DEPARTMENT'S OFFICE OF VIOLENCE PREVENTION.

THE MEDICAL DIRECTOR OF A MAYO CLINIC REHAB PROGRAM DESCRIBES HIS WORK.

AND WILL KENNEALLY GIVES US THE LATEST ON THE GOP-LED 2020 INVESTIGATION.

IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR OCTOBER 15.

>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS WISCONSIN.

>> WISCONSIN'S WOLF HUNT IS SET TO BEGIN IN A LITTLE MORE THAN THREE WEEKS, ON NOVEMBER 6.

BUT JUST DAYS BEFORE THAT, A FEDERAL JUDGE IN MADISON WILL CONSIDER A LAWSUIT FROM SIX CHIPPEWA TRIBES CALLING TO HALT THE HUNT.

WE INVITED HUNTER NATION, WHICH SUED TO HOLD FEBRUARY'S WOLF HUNT, BUT THEY WERE UNABLE TO JOIN US TONIGHT.

WE ARE JOINED BY PETER DAVID, BIOLOGIST WITH THE GREAT LAKES INDIAN FISH & WILDLIFE COMMISSION AND THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> IT'S A PLEASURE.

THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY.

>> SO LET'S UNPACK THE REASONS THE OJIBWA TRIBES WANT TO PREVENT THE WOLF HUNT FROM HAPPENING.

WHAT ARE THE CONCERNS ABOUT THE WOLF POPULATION IN WISCONSIN, ESPECIALLY AFTER THAT FEBRUARY HUNT?

>> WELL, THE FEBRUARY HUNT WAS CERTAINLY AN UNPRECEDENTED EVENT COMPARED TO WOLF HUNTING IN HISTORY.

THAT IMPACT WAS ENTIRELY NESTED INTO THE HEART OF THE WOLVES' BREEDING SEASON, SO WE'RE FAR FROM UNDERSTANDING THE BIOLOGICAL IMPACT OF WHAT HAPPENED IN FEBRUARY AND YET WE'RE PROCEEDING HERE WITH ANOTHER HUNT.

THAT'S REALLY UNCONSCIONABLE I THINK TO THE TRIBES.

THEY HAVE TREMENDOUS CONNECTIONS TO THE WOLF AND THEY ALSO VALUE THE INCREDIBLY ECOLOGICALLY AND RELY ON THEM TO KEEP THE DEER HEALTHY, WHICH THE TRIBES DEPEND ON VERY MUCH.

SO THE TRIBES' REAL GOAL IS TO LET THE WOLVES REACH THEIR NATURAL LEVEL, WHICH THEY WERE CLOSE TO DOING BEFORE THE FEBRUARY HUNT.

>> THE TRIBES' LAWSUIT DAT STATS THE DNR VIOLATED TREATY HUNTS SAYING THE QUOTA SHOULDN'T BE 300 OR 130, BUT ZERO.

HOW WERE TREATIES VIOLATED?

>> WELL, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF WAYS, FRANKLY.

THE QUO ATHERE'S A REAL QUESTIOR THERE'S A NEED FOR A QUOTA AT ALL.

IS THERE A LEGITIMATE REASON TO HUNT WOLVES?

I THINK BOTH IN THE SPORT HUNTING ETHIC I GREW UP IN AND IN THE OJIBWA WORLDVIEW, WE APPLY ETHICAL CONSIDERATIONS TO HUNTING ANY ANIMAL, ESPECIALLY SOMETHING THAT'S AS SOCIAL AND CULTURAL SIGNIFICANT AS THE WOLF.

SO THAT'S THE FIRST QUESTION.

THEN THE STATE UNFORTUNATELY HAS A SITUATION WHERE THEY HAVE A LAW THAT REQUIRES A HUNT TO TAKE PLACE.

IF YOU HAVE TO LIVE WITH THAT, IT AT LEAST NEEDS TO BE APPLIED WITH THE BEST AVAILABLE SCIENCE.

IT WAS CLEAR THAT THE ACTIONS THAT THE NATURAL RESOURCES BOARD WAS TAKING WERE AN EFFORT TO GET WAS TAKING WERE AN EFFORT TO GET AROUND THE TRIBES' RIGHT TO PROTECT THE WOLF.

AND SO THAT'S A TREMENDOUS CONCERN.

AND THEN THE LACK OF SOUND SCIENCE BEHIND THE PROCESS THAT WAS USED TO REACH THIS QUOTA IS ANOTHER TREMENDOUS CONCERN OF THE TRIBES.

AND THE MANY PEOPLE IN THE NONTRIBAL COMMUNITY.

>> THERE ARE THOSE AS WELL.

NOW, SUPPORTERS OF A ROBUST WOLF HUNT SAY THAT THE ANIMALS PREY ON LIVESTOCK AND THEIR NUMBERS NEED TO BE REDUCED.

WHAT ABOUT THAT?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S INSTRUCTIVE TO LOOK AT OUR NEIGHBORING STATES.

THERE ARE WOLVES OBVIOUSLY IN THE UPPER PENINSULA OF MICHIGAN AND MINNESOTA.

NEITHER RUSHES TO KILL WOLVES.

THE POPULATION IS SIMILAR TO WISCONSIN.

THEY HAVE A LIVESTOCK INDUSTRY AS WELL.

HUNTING HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH ADDRESSING LIVESTOCK DEPREDATION CONCERNS.

WE LOOK AT THE FEBRUARY HUNT.

NINE OUT OF TEN WOLVES KILLED IN THAT HUNT WERE TAKEN MORE THAN TEN MILES FROM THE NEAREST DEPREDATION EVENT.

SO WHILE THERE ARE LIVESTOCK CONCERNS, WE KNOW THAT HUNTING IS NOT A LEGITIMATE WAY TO ADDRESS THEM.

AND WISCONSIN I THINK NEEDS TO EMULATE THE OTHER TWO STATES AND TAKE A THOUGHTFUL AND PRACTICAL PATH FORWARD.

THOSE STATES ARE DOING SOCIAL SURVEYS.

THEY'RE TALKING TO THEIR CONSTITUENTS.

THEY'RE CONSULTING WITH THE TRIBES.

THEY'RE GOING TO DEVELOP A LEGITIMATE AND SCIENCE-BASED AND DEFENSIBLE PATH FORWARD AND THAT'S SOMETHING I THINK WISCONSIN NEEDS TO CATCH UP TO.

>> AS TO THE CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE OF WOLVES FOR THE OJIBWA, WOLVES ARE SACRED.

FOR THEM, WHAT KIND OF A VIOLATION IS KILLING THEM?

>> IN THE OJIBWA WORLD VIEW IT'S UNDERSTOOD THAT WOLF IS AN ANIMAL THAT THE TRIBES' FATE IS INTERTWINED WITH AND THE RELATIONSHIP IS REALLY ONE OF A BROTHERHOOD.

THIS IS LITERALLY LIKE COMING INTO YOUR FAMILY AND KILLING FAMILY MEMBERS TO TRADITIONAL OJIBWA PEOPLE.

SO IT'S THAT WRONG AND IT'S THAT CLOSE TO HOME AND YOU CAN IMAGINE HOW THIS FEELS TO TRIBAL PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE JUSTIFICATIONS GIVEN FOR THIS EVENT REALLY DON'T HOLD UP TO ANY SCIENTIFIC SCRUTINY.

>> SO WE WILL BE LOOKING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN FEDERAL COURT JUST DAYS BEFORE THE HUNT IS SET TO BEGIN.

PETER DAVID, THANKS VERY MUCH.

THANKS FOR YOUR INFORMATION.

>> IT WAS A PLEASURE.

TAKE CARE.

BE WELL.

>> THANK YOU.

>> SPEAKING OF LAWSUITS, THE GROUP THAT SUED TO GET THE FEBRUARY WOLF HUNT ON THE BOOKS MAY GO TO COURT AGAIN, THIS TIME OVER DUELING DUELING QUOTA NUM.

LUKE HILGEMANN OFFERED A STATEMENT ABOUT THE LOWER QUOTA SET BY THE DNR SAYING, QUOTE, THE NATURAL RESOURCES BOARD IS THE GOVERNING BODY OF THE DEPARTMENT AND WE BELIEVE THIS MAY BE ANOTHER ILLEGAL MOVE BY THE DNR AND THE EVERS ADMINISTRATION TO OVERRIDE THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE.

HUNTER NATION IS ACTIVELY REVIEWING THIS MOVE WITH OUR LEGAL TEAM AND WILL CONTINUE TO LEAD THE FIGHT TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS SEASON'S WOLF HUNT CONTINUES AT THE 300 QUOTA APPROVED BY THE BOARD.

>> AT THE STATE CAPITOL THIS WEEK, ASSEMBLY AND SENATE REPUBLICANS RELEASED A SLATE OF PRO-HUNTING BILLS THEY'RE CALLING THE WISCONSIN SPORTING FREEDOM PACKAGE.

PROPOSALS INCLUDE LEGALIZING THE HUNTING OF SANDHILL CRANES, EASING OR ELIMINATING DNR HUNTING REGULATIONS AND A BILL TO ALLOW GUN OWNERS TO CONCEAL AND FIREARM, A MEASURE TONY EVERS IS LIKELY TO VETO.

THE GOVERNOR ANNOUNCED $45 MILLION IN AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN FUNDS WILL GO TO PUBLIC SAFETYING, INCLUDING GUN VIOLENCE PREVENTION AND VICTIM AID, THIS AS CITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE SEEING SHARP INCREASES IN VIOLENT BEHAVIOR, INCLUDING GUN VIOLENCE AND HOMICIDES.

SO FAR IN 2021, MILWAUKEE IS ON PACE TO SEE AN HISTORIC NUMBER OF SHOOTING DEATHS, WITH 142 VICTIMS REPORTED THROUGH SEPTEMBER OF THIS YEAR.

ANOTHER 671 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN INJURED IN GUN VIOLENCE.

THE GOVERNOR SAID HE IS ALLOCATING $8 MILLION OF THE FUNDS TO THE MILWAUKEE HEALTH DEPARTMENT.

HE SAYS THE FUNDS WILL BE TO RESPOND TO THE PANDEMIC-RELATED UPTICK IN VIOLENCE AND TRAUMA T, WITH PROJECTS THAT TAKE A PUBLIC HEALTH APPROACH.

MARISA WOJCIK SPOKE WITH TWO REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT'S OFFICE OF VIOLENCE PREVENTION.

>> JAMAAL, WHY EXACTLY IS THIS PANDEMIC, WITH 2021 SET TO REACH HISTORIC LEVELS OF HOMICIDE?

HOW EXACTLY DO WE GET FROM A PANDEMIC TO HOMICIDE?

WHAT ARE ALL OF THE LINKAGES IN BETWEEN?

>> THERE WAS AN EPIDEMIC OF GUN VIOLENCE EVEN BEFORE THE PANDEMIC HIT.

GUN VIOLENCE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A DISCUSSION.

VIOLENCE AS A WHOLE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A DISCUSSION.

AND STRATEGIES ABOUT PREVENTION HAS ALWAYS BEEN A DISCUSSION AS WELL.

NOT TO THE LEVEL THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE AS WORKING IN PREVENTION, BUT IT HAS BEEN THERE.

SO THEN WHEN YOU BRING ABOUT A PANDEMIC THAT ACTUALLY ESSENTIALLY CHANGES THE WAY OF LIFE, RIGHT?

THERE WERE A LOT OF THINGS THAT WERE SWITCHED, A LOT OF THINGS THAT WERE ENDED.

YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THINGS THAT PEOPLE HAD DIRECT ACCESS TO PRIOR TO THE PANDEMIC WERE TAKEN AWAY, IN ADDITION TO THE FACT THAT PEOPLE LOST JOBS, LOST INCOME.

YOU KNOW, DESPERATION INCREASED, RIGHT?

THAT IS WHAT THEN INCREASES THE LIKELIHOOD FOR THE ANGER AND THE FRUSTRATION THAT COMES ALONG WITH THE ENGAGEMENT OF VIOLENCE.

SO THEN YOU ALSO HAVE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, TRAUMA IS A VERY BIG ISSUE THAT IS NOT DISCUSSED ON A GRAND LEVEL, RIGHT?

THE LEVELS OF TRAUMA THAT EXIST, A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ENGAGE IN GUN VIOLENCE HAVE BEEN VICTIMS DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY OF GUN VIOLENCE, RIGHT, WHETHER THAT'S YOU'VE SEEN IT HAPPEN OR IT'S HAPPENED TO YOU, RIGHT?

SO, YOU KNOW, UNDERSTANDING THE GENERATIONAL ASPECTS OF TRAUMA THAT A LOT OF INDIVIDUALS EXPERIENCE, PLUS THE IMPACT OF COMMUNITY TRAUMA AND TALKING ABOUT THE LACK THAT IS EXISTING WITHIN THESE COMMUNITIES THAT ARE HIGHLY IMPACTED BY THAT GUN VIOLENCE, RIGHT?

SO IT'S JUST SEEING THIS IS A COMPLEX WEB THAT'S BEEN WOVEN.

WE MUST ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE COMPLEXITY IS THERE.

AND IT'S GOING TO TAKE A HIGH LEVEL OF ENGAGEMENT FROM MULTIPLE -- LIKE A MULTIDISCIPLINARY ENGAGEMENT IN ORDER FOR THIS TO REALLY BE ADDRESSED.

THIS CAN'T JUST COME FROM ONE ENTITY.

IT HAS TO BE MULTIDISCIPLINARY APPROACH.

>> AND KWEKU TEANGELO, WHY ARE MORE AND MORE OF THESE TRAGEDIES HAPPENING TO YOUNG PEOPLE, PARTICULARLY THOSE UNDER THE AGE OF 18?

>> IT'S VERY CLEAR THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AN ACCESS ISSUE.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A RESOURCE ISSUE FOR OUR YOUNG PEOPLE.

AND WE RECOGNIZE THAT IDLE TIME IS WHERE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S MORE OPPORTUNITY FOR RECKLESS DECISIONS TO BE MADE.

AND DUE TO THE PANDEMIC, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF IDLE TIME FOR OUR YOUNG PEOPLE.

AND THEY HAVE BEEN MAKING MORE RISKY DECISIONS DURING THAT TIME.

AND IF WE THINK ABOUT IT, A LOT OF THESE YOUNG PEOPLE PROBABLY WOULD HAVE BEEN IN AGENCIES THAT WOULD HAVE SUPPORTED THEM AND RESOURCED THEM.

AND THE REALITY IS DUE TO THE SEVERITY OF OUR PANDEMIC THAT WE'RE STILL IN NOW, A LOT OF THESE ISSUES IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY DIFFICULT FOR US TO TRANSITION OUT OF UNLESS WE REALLY START TO THINK OUT OF THE BOX.

WE REALLY HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE LARGE SPACES THAT WE HAVE THAT WE CAN SAFELY BRING IN GROUPS OF INDIVIDUALS, PARTICULARLY YOUNG PEOPLE, TO ENGAGE WITH EACH OTHER IN A SAFE WAY.

AND IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THAT LEVEL OF INVESTMENT HAS NOT OCCURRED FOR OUR YOUNG PEOPLE.

AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT, OH, OUR YOUNG PEOPLE ARE DOING THIS, OUR YOUNG PEOPLE ARE DOING THAT, WE ALSO HAVE TO FACTOR IN WHAT ARE WE NOT DOING FOR OUR YOUNG PEOPLE.

AND IN REALITY THERE'S A LOT THAT WE'RE NOT DOING.

>> YOU CAN WATCH THAT EXTENDED INTERVIEW ON THE NEWS PAGE OF OUR WEBSITE AT pbswisconsin.org.

EVEN AS THERE COULD BE SIGNS THE PANDEMIC IS SLOWING, SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN INFECTED ARE NOW COPING WITH POST-COVID SYNDROME, OR LONG COVID.

WHAT IS IT?

WHO'S AT RISK?

AND WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT.

FOR ANSWERS TO THESE QUESTIONS AND MORE, WE TURN TO DR. GREG VANICHKACHORN, WITH A MAYO CLINIC HEALTH SYSTEM AND THE MEDICAL DIRECTOR OF THEIR COVID-19 ACTIVITY REHABILITATION PROGRAM.

HE HAS WORKED WITH MANY PATIENTS DIAGNOSED WITH LONG COVID SYNDROME.

HE JOINS US NOW FROM ROCHESTER, MINNESOTA, AND, DOCTOR, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> SO HOW COMMON IS IT FOR PEOPLE TO GET THIS LONG COVID?

>> YOU KNOW, IT IS FAIRLY COMMON.

I WISH I COULD SAY THAT THIS IS A RARE THING, BUT ACCORDING TO OUR RESEARCH, ANYWHERE BETWEEN 10% AND 30% OF INDIVIDUALS WITH COVID CAN EXPECT TO COME DOWN WITH POST-COVID SYNDROME.

AND THAT'S A CONSERVATIVE MEASUREMENT, UNFORTUNATELY.

>> WOW.

THAT IS A REALLY BIG NUMBER, BIGGER THAN I DEFINITELY UNDERSTOOD.

CAN A PERSON DEVELOP IT EVEN IF THEY DIDN'T INITIALLY HAVE SYMPTOMS, LIKE SAY A CHILD?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

UNFORTUNATELY, WE DON'T SEE A RELATIONSHIP NECESSARILY BETWEEN LONG HAUL COVID SYMPTOMS AND HOW SEVERE THE ACUTE INFECTION WAS.

IN FACT, SOME OF OUR PATIENTS HAVEN'T HAD REALLY ANY SYMPTOMS AND JUST FOUND OUT AFTER THE CONTACT THROUGH THINGS LIKE CONTACT TRACING.

AND, YES, WE HAVE SEEN THIS ALSO OCCUR IN PEDIATRIC POPULATION AS WELL.

>> SO WHAT ARE THE SYMPTOMS OF THIS SYNDROME?

>> IT CAN BE QUITE NEBULOUS, BUT THE TWO THINGS THAT MOST PEOPLE THINK ABOUT ARE FATIGUE THAT IS QUITE PROFOUND.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, PATIENTS WILL SAY THEY HAVE TO TAKE A THREE TO FOUR-HOUR NAP AFTER DOING SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS TAKING OUT THE TRASH OR HOUSEHOLD CHORES.

THE OTHER THING WE HEAR ABOUT IS ONGOING SHORTNESS OF BREATH AND IT'S NOT JUST WHEN PEOPLE ARE DOING ACTIVITIES, BUT EVEN AT REST.

WE SEE A LOT OF OTHER SYMPTOMS, INCLUDING HEADACHES AND BRAIN FOG, WHICH IS OFTEN MANIFEST WITH THINGS LIKE TROUBLES WITH SHORT-TERM MEMORY?

>> CAN IT BE HARD TO DIAGNOSE OR IS IT PRETTY CLEAR TO PEOPLE LIKE YOU, BUT WHAT ABOUT ACROSS THE BOARD WITH PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIANS OR SOMETHING?

>> YES.

THIS REMAINS A CHALLENGE FOR A LOT OF PROVIDERS AROUND THE COUNTRY.

THERE STILL ISN'T A LOT KNOWN ABOUT THIS CONDITION.

THERE'S ALSO NO SPECIFIC DIAGNOSTIC TEST CAN BE DONE TO IDENTIFY THIS CONDITION.

MANY PROVIDERS ARE AT A LOSS TO ACCURATELY DIAGNOSE THIS.

>> CAN A PERSON DEVELOP POST-COVID SYMPTOMS AFTER A BREAKTHROUGH CASE, EVEN AFTER A VACCINE?

>> YES.

WE HAVE SEEN THAT HAPPEN.

I'VE HAD A FEW PATIENTS WHERE PATIENTS HAVE HAD BREAKTHROUGH INFECTIONS AND GONE ON TO HAVE LONG COVID SYMPTOMS.

BUT FORTUNATELY THAT'S FAIR SO FAR IN OUR EXPERIENCE HERE.

I WILL SAY THAT THE PATIENTS THAT DO HAVE A MORE PROLONGED CORCORCOURSE SEEM TO BE GETTING BETTER.

IT'S DIFFICULT TO SAY WHETHER THE VACCINE IS WHAT'S PREVENTING PEOPLE FROM GETTING LONG COVID.

THE AVERAGE TIME LAST YEAR WAS ABOUT THREE MONTHS AFTER THE INFECTION WHEN SOMEONE WOULD COME FOR CARE.

BUT NOW PEOPLE ARE SHOWING UP TWO TO THREE WEEKS OUT AFTER THEIR INFECTION TO KIND OF GET AHEAD OF THE PROBLEM.

>> DOES IT EVER GO AWAY?

>> SOME IT DOES.

ABSOLUTELY WANT TO GIVE PEOPLE HOPE.

WE DO SEE A GROUP OF PATIENTS THAT GET BETTER AFTER FOUR TO SIX MONTHS AND ABLE TO BOUNCE BACK TO THEIR NORMAL LIVES.

AT THE SAME TIME, WE DO HAVE SOME PATIENTS NOW WHO ARE A YEAR OR MORE OUT FROM THEIR INFECTION AND THEY'RE STILL EXPERIENCING SYMPTOMS.

THEY ARE BETTER THAN WHEN THEY FIRST STARTED TREATMENT, BUT IT REALLY DOES LOOK LIKE THIS LONG COVID ISSUE CAN BE A CHRONIC PROBLEM.

>> WHAT IS THE TREATMENT FOR LONG COVID?

>> WELL, THE FIRST THING THAT WE DO FOR TREATMENT HERE IS TO MAKE SURE THAT NOTHING ELSE IS GOING ON THAT COULD EXPLAIN A PATIENT'S SYMPTOMS.

THERE CAN BE SOME VERY SERIOUS COMPCOMPLICATIONS, LIKE A BLOOD CLOT.

SO WE LIKE TO MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS OKAY.

AFTER THAT IT'S MORE ABOUT RECONDITIONING THE BODY APPROPRIATELY AND HELPING MANAGE THE SYMPTOMS ASSOCIATED WITH THIS SO THAT PATIENTS CAN PARTICIPATE IN THAT REHABILITATION, SO TAKING CARE OF HEADACHES, FOR EXAMPLE, TREATING POOR SLEEP, TREATING PAINS IN THE BODIES, ALL OF THOSE THINGS TO MINIMIZE SO PATIENTS CAN APPROPRIATELY RECOVER.

WE'LL INVOLVE OUR PHYSICAL AND OCCUPATIONAL THERAPY GROUPS TO HELP WITH THAT.

>> THIS HAS GOT TO BE VERY DIFFICULT FOR THE PATIENTS.

WHAT IS YOUR MESSAGE TO PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE SUFFERING THESE KINDS OF SYMPTOMS?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I WOULD SAY THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT IF PATIENTS ARE SUFFERING THIS CONDITION, DON'T BE AFRAID TO SELF-ADVOCATE FOR YOURSELF.

AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, THERE ARE A LOT OF BARRIERS TO INDIVIDUALS GETTING CARE.

DON'T SETTLE WITH NO FOR AN ANSWER OR THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO OUT THERE.

THERE ARE OTHER CLINICS OUT THERE THAT ARE READY TO HELP PATIENTS WHO ARE IN NEED.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THANKS FOR THIS INFORMATION.

VERY IMPORTANT, DOCTOR.

THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME AGAIN.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> IN POST-ELECTION NEWS, TODAY WAS THE DAY CLERKS WERE TO HAVE APPEARED BEFORE THE SPECIAL COUNCIL.

BUT AFTER ISSUING SUBPOENAS, FORMER STATE SUPREME COURT JUSTICE MICHAEL GABLEMAN BACKED OFF THE REQUEST FOR NOW.

THERE HAS BEEN CONFUSION OVER THE PROCESS AND STILL THE FORMER JUSTICE IS PRESSING AHEAD AND LATE THIS WEEK ISSUED HIS LATEST YOUTUBE STATEMENT.

"HERE AND NOW" REPORTER WILL KENNEALLY HAS BEEN COVERING THE TWISTS AND RETURNS OF THIS REPUBLICAN RESPONSI SPONSORED P. HE JOINS US NOW.

SO MICHAEL GABLEMAN SAYS HE WILL DEPOSE PEOPLE NEXT FRIDAY.

IT'S HARD TO KEEP UP.

WHAT DID HE SAY?

>> WE'RE NOT EXPECTING ANY TESTIMONY NEXT FRIDAY, BUT HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO TAKE SOME DEPOSITIONS.

SO WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS THERE.

>> WHAT WAS HIS PRIMARY MESSAGE IN HIS LATEST YOUTUBE STATEMENT?

>> HIS YOUTUBE STATEMENT CAME OUT A FEW DAYS AGO AND THAT LAYS OUT THE STEPS HE HAS BEEN TAKING IN THE SUBPOENA PROCESS.

LARGELY THAT HE'S BEEN USING TO SOLICIT DOCUMENTS AND TESTIMONY FROM THE MAYORS AND ELECTION OFFICIALS.

HE'S RECEIVED CRITICISM FROM ATTORNEY JOURNAL JOSH KAUL WHO'S REPRESENTING THE WISCONSIN ELECTION COMMISSION IN THE SUBPOENA PROCESS AND HE TOOK GABLEMAN TO TASK OVER WHAT HE CALLED A FLAWED SUBPOENA PROCESS.

>> THE ONE THAT WAS ISSUED, HOWEVER, IS DRASTICALLY OVER OVERBROAD AND IT'S REQUESTING HER TESTIMONY AT A SECRET HEARING AND THAT IS IMPROPER.

IT'S OUR HOPE THAT WE WILL BE ABLE TO CONTINUE WORKING WITH THE SPECIAL COUNSEL'S OFFICE AND REACH AN AGREEMENT.

>> SO AS TO REACH AN AGREEMENT, IT APPEARS THEY HAVE.

TO WHAT EXTENT?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

SO LAWYERS WORKING WITH THE MAYORS AND THE ELECTIONS OFFICIALS HAVE REACHED AN AGREEMENT WITH THE INVESTIGATORS TO PROVIDE DOCUMENTS RIGHT NOW, BUT TO DELAY TESTIMONY TO A FUTURE DATE.

SO TESTIMONY WILL COME.

DOCUMENTS ARE IN HAND THIS WEEK.

>> YEAH.

WE'LL SEE WHAT COMES NEXT.

BUT THE FORMER JUSTICE WANTED TO HEAR FROM THOSE MAYORS BECAUSE HE'S PARTICULARLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE FACEBOOK NONPROFIT WHICH GAVE MONEY TO WISCONSIN'S FIVE LARGEST CITIES.

>> WHILE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN PRIVATE FUNDS MAY HAVE BEEN USED IN THE PUBLIC MANAGEMENT OF ELECTIONS TO ACHIEVE A PREFERRED OUTCOME AT THE EXPENSE OF ELECTION INTEGRITY IF INDEED THIS OCCURRED WOULD BE THE DEFINITION OF A BOONDOGGLE AND MARK THE BEGINNING OF TYRANNY AND THE END OF THE AMERICAN EXPERIMENT IN DEMOCRACY.

>> THAT'S SOME PRETTY SOARING RHETORIC.

HE'S SAYING THE MONEY MAY HAVE BEEN USED FOR, QUOTE, A PREFERRED OUTCOME.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

SO IT STEMS FROM A CONSERVATIVE CONCERN THAT YOU'RE GOING TO DRUM UP DEMOCRATIC TURNOUT.

THIS WAS TAKEN TO COURT LAST OCTOBER AND A FEDERAL JUDGE RULED THAT BECAUSE THE FUNDS ARE GOING TO ALL VOTERS, NOT TARGETING DEMOCRATS SPECIFICALLY, THAT IT WAS OKAY TO GO FORWARD.

IT'S ANOTHER LEVEL OF A CONCERN ABOUT OUTSIDE INFLUENCE BEING IMBUED INTO ELECTIONS THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE LOCALLY RUN.

THE IMPORTANT THING TO KNOW HERE IS WHILE THESE FIVE CITIES RECEIVED AN INITIAL ROUND OF FUNDING, A SECOND ROUND OF FUNDING WENT TO MORE THAN 200 WISCONSIN CITIES, TOWNS AND VILLAGES, INCLUDING CONSERVATIVE BASTIONS LIKE WAUKESHA.

>> PITCHES PARTISAN, BUT THERE IS A NONPARTISAN AUDIT UNDERWAY.

WHAT IS THE STATUS OF THAT?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

THAT'S BEING DONE BY THE STATE'S LEGISLATIVE AUDIT BUREAU, A NONPARTISAN AGENCY THAT'S BEEN WORKING FOR THE BETTER PART OF THIS YEAR ON THE AUDIT.

THAT'S EXPECTED SOMETIME THIS FALL, IN A MATTER OF WEEKS.

>> WILL KENNEALLY, THANKS FOR FOLLOWING THIS.

>> THANK YOU.

>> CONNECTED TO THIS STORY, WE UNPACKED SOME OF WHAT'S BEEN GOING ON WITH THE INVESTIGATION.

FORMER JUSTICE GABLEMAN GRABBED A BLARING HEADLINE LAST WEEK THAT READ "HEAD OF REPUBLICAN REVIEW OF WISCONSIN ELECTIONS SAYS HE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND HOW ELECTIONS WORK."

>> DAYS LATER, ON A MILWAUKEE RADIO PROGRAM, HE DOUBLED DOWN, BOTH PUSHING BACK AGAINST THAT REPORTING AND REITERATING HIS LACK OF UNDERSTANDING.

>> I, LIKE MOST PEOPLE, DO NOT HAVE A COMPREHENSIVE UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THE MECHANICS OF AN ELECTION WORK.

WHEN I PUT MY PAPER BALLOT INTO THE MACHINE, I'M LEFT WITH NO OTHER THING TO DO EXCEPT SORT OF HOPE FOR THE BEST.

>> PLENTY OF PEOPLE DO KNOW HOW THE MECHANICS OF AN ELECTION WORK.

WE ASKED ONE OF THEM, ROCK COUNTY CLERK LISA TOLLEFSON.

>> SO IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE DOING, YOU KNOW, WATCHING BALLOTS GO IN AND CROSSING YOUR FINGERS?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

WE HAVE SO MANY CHECKS AND BALANCES IN PLACE TO VERIFY THE NUMBER OF BALLOTS MATCHES THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO VOTED.

>> BUT TO THAT DIRECT QUESTION ABOUT BALLOTS INTO THE MACHINE.

WHAT LITERALLY HAPPENS THEN TO THAT BALLOT?

>> SO AN IMAGE IS TAKEN OF THAT BALLOT AND IT'S STORED UNDER THE POLLS CLOSE ON ELECTION NIGHT.

THEY VERIFY THAT ALL OF THE VOTERS HAVE VOTED WHO WERE IN LINE AT 8:00.

THEY MAKE SURE ALL THE ABSENTEE BALLOTS HAVE BEEN PROCESSED.

THEY HIT THE CLOSE POLL BUTTON AND IT TABULATES EVERYTHING AND CALCULATES THE VOTE.

IT RANDOMIZES THE IMAGES SO THAT YOUR VOTE REMAINS ANONYMOUS AND IT PRINTS OUT A REPORT.

THOSE REPORTS THAT PRINT OUT ARE WHAT WE CERTIFY THE ELECTION OFF OF AFTER THE ELECTION AT OUR BOARD OF CANVASSERS.

>> THE ELECTION PROCESS BIMEDZ S IN MULTIPLE LAYERS OF PRECISION.

IT'S BEING DESCRIBED AS KIND OF A MYSTERY, RIGHT?

AND IT'S NOT.

>> IT'S NOT A MYSTERY.

EVERYTHING IS DONE IN THE OPEN.

>> LIKE ALL CLERKS IN WISCONSIN, TOLLEFSON RECEIVED THIS LETTER FROM GABLEMAN'S OFFICE OF SPECIAL COUNSEL, REQUESTING PRESERVATION OF ELECTION RECORDS, WHICH SHE SAYS CLERKS ALREADY DO.

AND, LIKE OTHERS, THE LETTER LANDED IN HER SPAM FOLDER BECAUSE IT CAME FROM A GMAIL ACCOUNT.

AS TO FORMER JUSTICE GABLEMAN'S LACK OF COMPREHENSIVE KNOWLEDGE OF THE MECHANICS OF AN ELECTION, TOLLEFSON SAYS HE'S WELCOME TO GIVE HER A CALL.

>> I CAN GO ON FOR HOURS ON OUR ELECTION PROCESS.

IN FACT, I DO.

I TEACH LOTS OF CLASSES ON IT.

SO IF HE'S GOT QUESTIONS, PLEASE ASK.

>> AND FINALLY TONIGHT, UW-MADISON CHANCELLOR REBECCA BLANK ANNOUNCED THAT SHE WAS LEAVING HER POSITION AS CHANCELLOR AT UW-MADISON TO BECOME THE FIRST FEMALE PRESIDENT OF ANOTHER BIG TEN SCHOOL, NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY, WHERE SHE WAS ONCE AN ECONOMICS PROFESSOR.

BLANK HAS SERVED AS CHANCELLOR SINCE 2013.

PBS WISCONSIN IS PART OF UW-MADISON.

AND THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.

BE SURE TO FOLLOW US ONLINE AND LOOK FOR OUR LATEST INSTALLMENT OF COVID CONDITIONS BY GOING TO pbswisconsin.org AND THEN CLICKING ON THE NEWS TAB.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND.

>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS WISCONSIN.