>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A "HERE & NOW" 2022 ELECTION SPECIAL.

>> THE CAMPAIGN COMMERCIALS ADD FUEL TO THE FIRE.

THE STATE'S SMOLDERING BRAIN DRAIN INTENSIFIES AND KEEPING WARM THIS WINTER WILL COME AT A STEEP COST.

GOOD EVENING, I'M ZAC SCHULTS.

A REPORT ON THE RACE FOR U.S. SENATE AND THE IMPACT OF PAROLE BECOMING POLITICAL AND THE EXODUS OF YOUNG PEOPLE MEANS FOR THE STATE'S ECONOMY AND HOW TO SAVE ON ENERGY COSTS WITH EFFICIENCY PLANNING.

IT'S "HERE & NOW" FOR SEPTEMBER 30.

>> FUNDING IS PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS WISCONSIN.

>> THE RACE FOR A SEAT IN THE U.S. SENATE BETWEEN INCUMBENT RON JOHNSON AND CHALLENGER MENDELA BARNES MAY DECIDE WHO CONTROLS THE CHAMBER.

WE HAVE THIS REPORT ON THE CONTEST BETWEEN THE SENIOR CENTER AND THE STATE'S LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

>> THE COST OF EVERYTHING IS UP.

NUMEROUS POLLS SHOW INFLATION IS THE NUMBER ONE CONCERN AMONG VOTERS.

>> DO NOT BELIEVE THE LIES.

>> POLITICAL CANDIDATES INCLUDING RON JOHNSON AND MENDELA BARNES WANT WIS VIS -- ISCONSIN VOTERS TO KNOW THEY'RE LISTENING.

>> ACROSS THE STATE PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED WITH RISING COSTS.

>> BARNES IS CURRENTLY SERVING AS THE STATE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR AND THEY HAVE DIFFERENT PLANS FOR ADDRESSING INFLATION.

SENATOR JOHNSON SAID THE GOVERNMENT IS HIGH GOVERNMENT SPENDING.

>> STOP SPENDING SO MUCH MONEY.

INFLATION IS EASY TO UNDERSTAND OF UNDERSTAND WHAT CAUSES IT.

IT'S MASSIVE DEBT AND SPENDING AND WE HAVE TOO MANY DOLLARS CHASING TOO FEW GOODS.

>> TARGETED TAX CHANGES ARE NEEDED.

>> WE NEED A MIDDLE-CLASS TAX CUT AND WE CAN MAKE SURE THE WEALTH AMONG US PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE.

THAT'S HOW WE GET TO A PLACE WHERE FAMILIES CAN HAVE ECONOMIC SECURITY.

>> ELEANOR POWELL SAID THE PAIN MIGHT MOTIVATE THOSE WHO DON'T NORMALLY VOTE.

>> BETWEEN THE PANDEMIC, ECONOMY AND INFLATION, A LOT PEOPLE ARE HURTING AND IT CAN BRING OUT MORE DISCONTENTED VOTERS.

>> Reporter: THERE'S ANOTHER ISSUE THAT IS HIGHLY MOTIVATING IN THE CONTEST BETWEEN BARNES AND JOHNSON AND THAT'S ABORTION.

>> WOMEN AND YOUNGER VOTERS ARE UPSET BY THE OVERTURNING OF ROE VS. WADE AND POLITICIAN POLITICS IN WISCONSIN WE HAD A PRE EXISTING BAN ON THE BOOKS.

THIS MOBILIZED A LOT OF MERENER AND IT'S ANGER AND MOBILIZATION.

>> Reporter: BARNES IS CALLING FOR A NEW FEDERAL LAW ALLOWING ACCESS TO ABORTION.

TO ACHIEVE THIS HE WANTS TO END THE FILIBUSTER IN THE CENTER.

FILIBUSTER IS A TACTIC USED TO PREVENT A BILL FOR PASSING BY STALLING IT WITH PROLONGED DEBATE.

>> WE NEED TO END THE FILIBUSTER TO CODIFY IT INTO LAW ONCE AND FOR ALL AND WE CAN DO THIS IF WE FLIP WISCONSIN AND ADD ONE MORE SEAT TO THE 50/50 QUOTE, UNQUOTE MAJORITY.

>> Reporter: JOHNSON WHO OPPOSES ABORTION EXCEPT FOR CASES OF RAPE AND IF THE MOTHER'S LAW IS AT STAKE, SAID STATES SHOULD USE REFERENDUMS.

>> HERE'S THE QUESTION, OF THE PROFOUND MORAL ISSUE, AT WHAT POINT DOES SOCIETY HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO SAVE A LIVE AND BALANCE THE RIGHTS OF A WOMAN VERSUS THE UNBORN CHILD.

>> Reporter: WISCONSIN LAW DOES NOT CURRENTLY ALLOW DIRECT REFERENDUMS.

>> THE SPEAKS WELL TRUMP WING OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

LIEUTENANT GOVERN BARNES AND REPRESENTS A NEW GENERATION IN AMERICAN POLITICS.

HE'S TRYING TO SPEAK TO YOUNGER VOTERS, VOTERS OF COLOR, VOTERS WHO OFTEN FEEL THEIR INTERESTS AREN'T BEING WELL REPRESENTED IN WASHINGTON.

>> Reporter: BARNES AND JOHNSON TOOK VERY DIFFERENT PATHS INTO POLITICS.

MENDELA BARNES WAS BORN AND RAISED IN MILWAUKEE AND PROUD OF HIS WORKING-CLASS ROOTS.

>> MOM WAS A TEACHER AND MY DAD WORKED A SHIRT.

>> Reporter: AFTER WORKING IN COMMUNITY ORGANIZING HE RAN FOR OFFICE SEAT AND AFTER TWO HE RAN UNSUCCESSFULLY FOR THE STATE SENATE IN 2016 BEFORE WINNING ELECTION AS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR WITH TONY EVERS.

IN HIS RUN FOR U.S. SENATE BARNES SAID HIS GOAL IS TO HELP MIDDLE-CLASS AMERICANS.

>> TIMES ARE GETTING TOUGHER FOR PEOPLE.

THINGS ARE MORE DIFFICULT.

IT'S HARDER AND HARDER TO GET AHEAD, ACCESS TO MIDDLE CLASS IS DENYING MANY PEOPLE.

>> Reporter: AND RON JOHNSON WHO LIVES IN OSHKOSH IS EQUALLY AS PROUD OF HIS WORKING-CLASS BACKGROUND.

>> WE SHOVELLED PATHWAYS.

>> Reporter: AND HE MEET RUSS FINEGOLD AND IN THE SENATE, JOHNSON SERVED ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND BUDGET COMMITTEES.

YOU SAID YOU WOULD ONLY RUN FOR TWO TERMS, JANUARY YOU DECIDED YOU'D RUN AGAIN.

WHAT MADE YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND?

>> OUR NATION'S COMING A PART.

TRUST ME, IT WAS MY PREFERENCE AND MY WIFE'S VERY STRONG PREFERENCE TO SERVE OUT THE SECOND TERM AND RETURN TO A PRIVATE LIFE.

I THINK I'M IN A POSITION WHERE I'VE HAD SUCCESS AS A U.S.

SENATOR AND HELPED IMPROVE THINGS.

>> Reporter: WHILE BOTH ARE TRYING TO STAY ON MESSAGE, JOHNSON AND BARNES HAVE PLENTY OF CRITICISM FOR EACH OTHER.

>> HE'S A RADICAL LEFTIST.

HE'S TRYING TO HIDE THAT FROM WISCONSIN ITS.

>> Reporter: THIS IS ABOUT AN OUT OF TOUCH POLITICIAN WHO FAILED TO DELIVER FOR WISCONSIN AND PUT HIMSELF AHEAD OF ALL OF US EVERY CHANCE.

>> Reporter: THE CANDIDATES AREN'T THE ONLY ONES GETTING IN THE MUD SLINGING.

OUTSIDE GROUPS ARE RUNNING THEIR OWN ADS.

>> RON JOHNSON USED HIS OFFICE TO SCOOP UP MILLIONS AND MENDELA BARNES SUPPORTS -- >> Reporter: PEOPLE SHOULD BE WARY.

>> POLITICAL ADS ARE AN EXEMPT CATEGORY WHERE PEOPLE CAN SAY WHAT THEY WANT AND THERE'S NO OBLIGATION FOR ANYTHING TO BE FACTUAL.

BUYERS AND VIEWERS SHOULD BE AWARE JUST BECAUSE IT'S ON TV DOESN'T MEAN IT'S TRUE.

>> WE KNEW THE OTHER SIDE WOULD MAKE UP LIVES ABOUT THE TO SCARE YOU.

YOU'VE SEEN THE ADS ATTACKING ME, THEY'RE ALL LIES.

>> Reporter: STILL BOTH CANDIDATES HAVE THEIR CONTROVERSIES.

JOHNSON HAS COME UNDER FIRE FOR SPREADING MISINFORMATION ABOUT COVID-19 AND THE PLAN TO GIVE THEN-VICE PRESIDENT A MAKE PENCE OF FAKE SLATE OF PRESIDENTIAL ELECTE ELECTE EELEC EELECTED PEOPLE AND THERE'S TWO INDEPENDENT SENATORS.

GIVEN THE SPLIT, WISCONSIN ELECTION IS KEY.

>> CONTROL OF THE SENATE HINGES ON OUR RAZOR THIN MAJORITY.

WE HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO DETERMINE WHO CONTROLS THE SENATE.

WISCONSIN MAY BE THE BALL GAME HERE.

IF YOU CARE ABOUT THE OUTCOME OF THE RACE YOU SHOULD SHOW UP ON ELECTION DAY.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> Reporter: FOR "HERE & NOW" I'M STEVEN POTTER.

>> Zac: REPUBLICANS ARE TRYING TO MAKE CRIME A BIG ISSUE THIS FALL.

TIM MICHELS RECEIVED A PANTS ON FIRE FOR MISREPRESENTING A RECORD ON PAROLES AND PARDONS BUT HASN'T STOPPED IT FROM APPEARING IN CAMPAIGN ADS.

>> WHAT PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW IS THAT A WHOLE BUNCH OF FOLKS ARE MANDTORIAL RELEASED FROM PRISON.

THE PAROLE COMMISSION HAS NO RIGHT TO CHANGE THAT.

THEY REACH A DATE AND THEY'RE LET GO.

DO I THINK THERE SHOULD BE SOME CHANGES OVER TIME?

ABSOLUTELY, THINK WE SHOULD LOOK AT THAT.

>> FOR MORE WE TURN TO JEROME DILLARD OF EX-INCARCERATED PEOPLE ORGANIZING.

AN ORGANIZATION THAT WORKS TO REFORM THE PENAL SYSTEM.

THANKS FOR YOUR TIME, TODAY.

>> MY PLEASURE, ZAC.

>> Zac: WHAT'S THE ISSUE WHEN THIS GETS POLITICIZED?

>> IT'S THE TOUGH ON CRIME RHETORIC THAT WORKED WELL IN THE '90s AND SURPRISED TO SEE IT RAISED AT THIS POINT IN TIME BUT THE FACTS AREN'T THERE.

AND OFTEN TIMES OUTRIGHT LIES ARE BEING SAID HOW OUR PAROLE SYSTEM WORKS AND ALL THESE VIOLENT CRIMINALS.

THE SCARE TACTICS I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THE PAROLE COMMISSIONER AND GOVERNOR EVERS AND ANY OTHER GOVERNOR ARE FOLLOWING THE LAW.

IT IS LAW THAT WHEN A PERSON IS SENTENCED 22 YEARS AGO, OVER 22 YEARS, A JUDGE HAD IN MIND WHAT THE SENTENCE SHOULD LOOK LIKE AND KNEW THEY SHOULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR PAROLE AFTER 25% AND GOOD INSTITUTIONAL ADJUSTMENT AND DOING THEIR PROGRAMMING THAT MADE THEM MORE SUSCEPTIBLE TO BE IN PAROLE.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS NOT ONLY IS THAT PAROLE BUT THERE'S MANDATORY RELEASE DATES ATTACHED TO THOSE SENTENCES SO A JUDGE COULD BE 80 YEARS.

I KNOW THAT 20 YEARS, I WOULD BE ELIGIBLE IF I BEHAVED MYSELF AND AT 75% THAT'S MANDATORY RELEASE DATE FOR ME.

>> WHAT'S THE IMPACT ON PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO RE-ENTER INTO SOCIETY AND TRYING TO START OVER WHEN THEY HEAR MESSAGES LIKE THIS?

>> YOU KNOW, I HEAR THEIR STORIES.

LAST YEAR WE HAD A BANQUET WITH MANY MANY OR OLD LAW, THAT'S WHAT WE REFERRED TO, OLD-LAW PAROLEES AND IF YOU DO THE AND IF LOOK INTO THE RECIDIVISM RATES OF THOSE WHO WERE RELEASED ON PAROLE UNDER THE ADMINISTRATION ARE JUST GOING TO STICK TO THE LAST FOUR YEARS.

NONE HAVE BEEN RE-INCARCEATED FOR A VIOLENT CRIME AND TAKING CARE OF THEIR FAMILIES AND A KNOW FROM TALKING TO MANY INDIVIDUALS.

MANY I MET AS YOUNG MEN IN MAXIMUM SECURITY PRISONS WHO STRIVE HARD TO CHANGE THEIR LIVES AND THEY THOUGHT ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT THEY COME FROM AND SOME OF THE THINGS THEY'VE DONE.

THEY'VE REPENTED AND REALLY ADJUSTED REAL WELL IN CORRECTIONS AND ONCE THEY'RE BACK IN THE STREETS, THEY'RE THRIVING ONCE THEY'RE BACK, THEY'RE THRIVING IN OUR COMMUNITY.

>> Zac: WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE DONE TO CHANGE EVEN THE WAY PAROLES ARE HANDLED OR THE WAY THE PUBLIC UNDERSTANDS THEM OR THE WAY THE WHOLE SYSTEM WORKS?

>> I THINK THE PUBLIC NEEDS TO BE EDUCATED ON HOW PAROLE WORKS.

DEF >> I THINK GIVING THE STORY OF THE VOICE OF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN PAROLED 40 YEARS AGO, 10 YEARS AGO AND WHERE THEY ARE NOW WOULD SHED MORE LIGHT ON TO PEOPLE CHANGE AND DESERVE A SECOND CHANCE.

I KNOW I DID.

>> Zac: THE ISSUE OF HOW TO MAKE REFORMS WITHIN THE SYSTEM BECOMES POLITICIZED AND WHAT IS SAID WILL GO TO THE NEXT SESSION.

>> THERE'S MANY COLLATERAL CONSEQUENCES TO HAVING A CONVICTION RECORD.

A LOT OF WHAT WE'RE SPEAKING ON ARE SOME OF THE COLLATERAL S LIKE THE RIGHT TO VOTE, AS LONG AS YOU'RE ON SUPERVISION YOU CAN'T CAST A BALLOT IN THIS STATE.

IN THE MIDWEST WE'RE ONE OF THOSE THAT STILL KEEP THE POLICIES IN PLACE YOU HAVE TO COMPLETELY FULFILL YOUR SENTENCE BEFORE YOU CAN CAST THE BALLOT.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, OUR TERMS OF SUPERVISION, WE'RE THE THIRD HIGHEST AS LONG AS HOW LONG SOMEONE IS ON SUPERVISION AND SOME ARE IN SUPERVISION 20 YEARS AND TWO OF MY STAFF MEMBERS WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO VOTE UNTIL 2042, 2044.

YET, STILL THEY'VE BEEN IN THE COMMUNITY WORKING FOR A COUPLE YEARS NOW PAYING TAXES BUT STILL NOT FEELING THEY'RE PART OF AMERICA, PERIOD.

>> Zac: FOR SOMEONE BEING RELEASED TODAY, THEY'RE COMING INTO AN ENVIRONMENT WITH EXTREMELY LOW UNEMPLOYMENT BUT HOUSING SHORTAGES AND HIGH INFLATION.

SO WHAT IS IT LIKE?

WHAT'S THE ENVIRONMENT THEY'RE COMING INTO?

>> YOU'RE RIGHT.

GETTING A JOB NOW IS -- A FEW YEARS AGO THAT WAS ONE OF THE MAIN BARRIERS WAS FINDING EMPLOYMENT.

AND TODAY HOUSING IS A HUGE ISSUE.

THAT'S WHY SO MANY NONPROFITS NOW ARE LOOKING AT HOW WE CAN HELP THEM BY HOUSING THEM.

YOU CAN HAVE A JOB BUT IF YOU DON'T HAVE STABLE LIVING HOW ARE YOU TO MAINTAIN A JOB?

HOW ARE YOU TO MAINTAIN YOUR HYGIENE AND BE SHARP WHEN YOU GO TO WORK IF YOU CAN'T GET A GOOD NIGHT'S SLEEP?

IF YOU'RE SLEEPING ON A PARK BENCH OR IN A SHELTER IT MAKES IT COMPLICATED.

>> Zac: YOU'RE GROUP HAS BEEN AROUND SINCE 2014.

WE HAVE A FEW SECONDS LEFT.

DESCRIBE THE BIGGEST PROGRESS YOU'VE SEEN IN THE ISSUES ON THIS TIME?

>> I HAVE SEEN SOME PROGRESS AN I HAVE TO SAY THIS ADMINISTRATION AND THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS HAVE MADE SOME ADJUSTMENTS THAT THEY COULD, THAT'S WITHIN THEIR BOUNDARIES OR FULFILLING WHAT THEY COULD LIKE EXTENDING THE RELEASE.

THEY SAID THEY'RE RELEASING DANGEROUS CRIMINALS, THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION RELEASED MORE THAN THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS BUT YET THERE WAS NOTHING SAID BECAUSE MANY OF THOSE HAD MET THEIR MANDATORY RELEASE DATE.

I FEEL OUR PAROLE COMMISSIONER DID A GREAT JOB.

WE CAN LOOK AT HIS RECIDIVISM RATES AND THOSE WHO WERE PAROLED IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS AND THERE'S -- IT'S AMAZING.

IT'S REMARKABLE HOW LOW IT IS.

>> Zac: WE'LL HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.

THAT'S ALL THE TIME.

JEROME DILLARD THANK YOU FOR THE TIME.

>> I APPRECIATE YOU HAVING ME.

>> Zac: A NEW REPORT SAYS WISCONSIN'S WORKFORCE IS EXPECTED TO DWINDLE IN THE NEXT DECADE WITHOUT AN INCREASE IN OUTSIDE MIGRATION BY 2030 THE WORKING AGE POPULATION WILL SHRINK BY AN ESTIMATED 130,000 UNLESS WE FIND A WAY TO KEEP YOUNG PEOPLE FROM LEAVING OR CONVINCING TO HAVE FAMILIES HERE AND THERE'S AN ORGANIZATION PART OF THE WISCONSIN COUNTY ASSOCIATION.

THANKS FOR YOUR TIME TODAY.

>> GOOD TO BE HERE.

>> YOU USE CENSUS DATA TO TRACK THE INFLOW AND OUTFLOW FROM WISCONSIN AND THE BABY BOOMERS AGE INTO RETIREMENT WE HAVE A MAJOR SHORTAGE.

>> THE FIRST BABY BOOM RETIRED AND THAT HAD AN EFFECT.

THE SECOND HALF IS NOW AGING INTO THAT AND THEY'RE ABOUT 20% BIGGER SO THAT IS GOING TO -- AND WE DON'T HAVE REALLY ENOUGH YOUNG PEOPLE COMING UP BEHIND THEM TO REPLACE THEM.

SO THE SOLUTION -- THE ONLY SOLUTION IF WE DON'T WANT TO SEE THAT BIG DECLINE IS MIGRATION FROM OTHER STATES OR OTHER COUNTRIES.

>> Zac: SO THE LACK OR ABSENCE OF WORKERS WILL BE FELT MORE SEVERELY IN CERTAIN AREAS OR SPREAD ACROSS THE WHOLE ECONOMY?

>> IT WILL BE SPREAD ACROSS THE WHOLE ECONOMY.

WE'LL SEE IT EVERYWHERE.

PROBABLY YOU'LL SEE A BIGGER IMPACT IN NORTHERN WISCONSIN.

THE POPULATION TENDS TO BE OLDER AS IT IS AND FEWER YOUNG PEOPLE SO IT WILL BE A LITTLE MORE ACUTE THERE BUT WE'LL SEE IT EVERYWHERE.

>> YOUR REPORT TALKS A LOT ABOUT YOUNG PEOPLE AND ANYONE WHO GREW UP IN WISCONSIN AND WENT TO COLLEGE SAW THIS HAPPEN AND YOU GO TO WISCONSIN AND EXPLORE THE WORLD AND SOME COME BACK HOME TO RAISE A FAMILY.

HOW DO YOU ENCOURAGE THAT?

IS THAT A STATE SOLUTION OR BUSINESS OR EMPLOYER SOLUTION?

>> IT'S A PUBLIC-PRIVATE WORKING TOGETHER SOLUTION.

ONE, WE NEED TO TRY TO LIMIT THE NUMBER OF YOUNG PEOPLE THAT WE'RE LOSING.

WE'RE GOING TO LOSE A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER, AS YOU SAID, THEY WANT TO GET OUT THERE.

BUT ONE OF THE THINGS WE FIND IS WHEN YOU LOOK AT AVERAGE WAGES FOR WHITE COLLAR EDUCATION AND COLLEGE GRADUATE OCCUPATIONS THEY'RE GOING INTO WE TEND TO BE 10% TO 15% BELOW THE NATIONAL AVERAGE IN TERMS OF THE BUSINESS SECTOR THEY HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT AND IF THEY WANT TO KEEP THOSE YOUNG PEOPLE HERE, THEY HAVE TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE COMPETITIVE.

AND I THINK THERE'S A ROLL FOR THE STATE AS WELL.

WE SEE STATES, COUNTIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY PROVIDING INCENTIVES FOR PEOPLE TO MOVE TO THEIR STATES.

MAINE HAS BEEN A LEADER IN THIS.

WE'RE NOT SURE EXACTLY HOW IT LOOKS BUT THERE ARE WAYS THAT WE CAN INNOCENT -- GIVE INCENTIVE TO MOVE BACK HERE.

>> >> THE PLACES YOU TALK ABOUT PEOPLE MOVING TO ARE HAVING NATURAL DISASTERS.

HOW CAN CLIMATE CHANGE BE MORE DESIRABLE TO EVERYONE NOT JUST NATIVES?

>> THERE'S INCREASE DISCUSSION AROUND THE NOTION THAT OVER TIME WISCONSIN, WITH ALL ITS WATER RESOURCES, IS GOING TO LOOK MORE AND MORE DESIRABLE FOR INDIVIDUALS AND FOR BUSINESSES.

SO THAT MAY PLAY A ROLE IN THE NEAR TERM NOT SO MUCH.

IT'S MORE OF A LONGER-TERM PATTERN WE END UP SEEING.

>> Zac: WHAT SHOULD WE DO TO BE PREPARED.

SHOULD THE STATE DO MORE AT THIS TIME OR MAKING EVERYONE AWARE OF THE SOLUTION?

LET'S TALK ABOUT IT.

>> I THINK THE SOLUTION TO OUR CHALLENGE IS REALLY TARGETING WHAT I CALL THE FAMILY FORMATION.

THAT'S WHAT WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN STRONG IN IN TERMS OF MIGRATION.

IT'S DESIGNING INCENTIVES FOR THAT AGE GROUP TO MOVE HERE.

AND I THINK IT'S ALSO -- THERE'S AN EDUCATION COMPONENT TO THIS THAT IF YOU GO OUTSIDE THE MIDWEST, PEOPLE KNOW VERY LITTLE ABOUT WISCONSIN EXCEPT THAT IT'S COLD AND WE HAVE CHEESE AND THE PACKERS AND THAT'S ABOUT IT.

SO PART OF IT IS EDUCATING THEM ON THE QUALITY OF LIFE AND THE GREAT SCHOOLS WE HAVE AND RELATIVELY LOW CRIME.

ALL THOSE THINGS THAT FAMILIES ARE LOOKING FOR BECAUSE ONCE THEY KNOW ABOUT IT AND ONCE YOU GET THEM HERE, MOST OF THEM STAY.

SO I THINK THAT'S THE ROLE THAT I THINK THE STATE CAN PLAY.

>> Zac: AND THOSE OF US STILL SAY WE DON'T NEED MORE PEOPLE.

WE LIKE THE SPACE WE HAVE.

THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> >> A LOT OF THE FURNACES TURNED ON THIS WEEK AND THE COST OF KEEPING IT RUNNING THIS WINTER S EXPECTED TO MAKE A BIG JUMP.

THE NATIONAL ENERGY ASSISTANCE DIRECTOR'S ASSOCIATION SAID THE AVERAGE OF HEAT HOME WILL RISE 17% COMPARED TO LAST YEAR AND WITH US IS CHAD LAIBLY.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

WHEN A REPORT LIKE THIS COMES OUTS DO YOU SEE AN INCREASE.

THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE REALIZING WINTER'S ABOUT DO -- TO COME?

>> ESPECIALLY WITH THE COLD SNAP WE WE SEE INQUIRIES.

>> Zac: WHAT DO YOU TELL THEM?

>> PREPARE THE HOUSE FOR WINTER.

GET A SMART THERMOSTAT.

WE HAVE REBATES AND LOOK TO INSULATE BECAUSE IF YOU WAIT THE NEXT TWO OR THREE MONTHS THE SCHEDULE PACKED FOR COMPANIES.

>> Zac: HOW MUCH MONEY CAN SOMEONE SAVE ON ENERGY COST COMPARED TO THE COST OF WEATHERIZING?

ARE THERE TWO SCALES?

>> QUITE A BIT.

A DEEP RETROFIT CAN SAVE UP TO 30% WHICH IS QUITE A LOT.

DOING A MINOR JOB WITH JUST THE ATTIC MAY SAVE 10% AND 15% AND INSULATION TENDS TO PAY FOR ITSELF WITHIN SEVEN YEARS, GIVE OR TAKE TWO OR THREE YEARS.

>> Zac: WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THE INTERNATIONAL SUPPLY, WE HAVE RUSSIA AND UKRAINE AND FIRES AND HURRICANES.

>> IT'S KEEPING THE ENERGY PRY OF PRICES THAN WE'D EXPECT.

PROPANE HAS RISEN AND PEOPLE'S PROPANE MAY GO UP $30 OR SO.

I'M SEEING MORE THAN THAT.

>> Zac: OKAY.

NOW, AS MUCH AS NO ONE WANTS TO PAY MORE FOR ENERGY, CAN RISING COSTS INCENTIVIZE PEOPLE TO ACTUALLY DO SOME OF THE UPGRADES BECAUSE THE PAY BACK IS FASTER?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WE GET A LOT OF INQUIRIES ESPECIALLY NEXT YEAR WITH THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT THERE'LL BE OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE TO SPEND A LITTLE MORE THAN THEY NORMALLY WOULD EVEN WHEN THEY HAVE LESS BECAUSE THE SAVINGS ARE GOING TO BE THERE.

>> Zac: SO WITH THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT AS PART OF CLIMATE CHANGE AND GREEN ISSUES IN THERE, DO WE KNOW YET WHAT'S GOING TO BE COMING.

IS THAT STILL BEING FINALIZED?

>> WE'RE SHIFTING THROUGH THE INFORMATION AND SEEING HOW THAT MONEY WILL FLOW PRACTICALLY BUT EXPECTING THERE TO BE GOOD OPPORTUNITIES PARTICULARLY WITH DUAL-FUEL HEAT PUMPS.

THOSE ARE BASICALLY AN AIR CONDITIONER THAT ACTS IN REVERSE AND THE TECHNOLOGY WASN'T THERE AT A GOOD PRICE POINT FOR THE COLD CLIMATE IN WISCONSIN, NEGATIVE 20 IS THE SWEET SPOT YOU WANT THEM TO WORK TO AND NOW THEY DO AND THAT'S A GOOD OPTION BECAUSE THERE'S MONEY FOR RESIDENTIAL HOME OWNERS FOR THAT KIND OF TECHNOLOGY.

>> Zac: WE'VE TALKED ABOUT HOME OWNERS BUT PEOPLE LIVE IN APARTMENTS.

ARE THERE THINGS THEY CAN DO?

>> SAME THING.

OUR PROGRAM FOCUS ON ENERGY WORKS FOR RENTERS AS WELL.

>> Zac: WHERE SHOULD THEY GO AND LOOK AT?

>> THEY SHOULD LOOK AT WWW.FOCUSONENERGY.

OUR PROGRAM HAS BEEN AROUND 20 YEARS AND IT'S WELL MANAGED.

THE MONEY DOESN'T RUN OUT BECAUSE IT'S SO WELL MANAGED.

IT'S A GREAT OPPORTUNITY.

>> Zac: I'VE SEEN SOME FORECASTS WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IN THE FARMER'S ALMANAC OR WANT TO GO WITH THE NATIONAL WEATHER -- >> I LOOKED AT MINE THE OTHER DAY.

>> Zac: IT SAYS THERE'S A HIGHER PERCENTAGE CHANCE WE COULD HAVE A COLDER AND WETTER WINTER THAN AVERAGE.

IT ADDS ON TO ENERGY COSTS, RIGHT?

>> IT DOES.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS THEY'LL BE FOR HEATING YOUR HOME WHETHER IT'S A COOLED WINTER OR NOT AND HEATING COSTS ARE ON THE RISE SO IT'S SOMETHING TO BE AWARE OF NOW BECAUSE THE INSULATION COMPANIES ARE GOING TO BE REALLY BUSY MOVING FORWARD.

ALSO, IF YOU'VE CALLED AN HCAC COMPANY BECAUSE OF THE DUAL-FUEL HEAT PUMPS AND THE RISE OF COSTS OF GETTING MACHINES TUNED UP THEY'RE BUSY.

YOU HAVE TO BE PATIENT.

>> Zac: CHAD LAIBLY WITH FOCUS ON ENERGY.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Zac: FOR MORE ON THIS AND OTHER ISSUES FACING WISCONSIN VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT PBSWISCONSIN.org AND JOIN US NEXT FRIDAY AT 7:00 P.M. FOR THE U.S. SENATE DEBATE FOLLOWED BY LIVE "HERE & NOW" ANALYSIS.

THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.

I'M ZAC SCHULTS.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.