[heroic music] ♪ ♪ ♪ >> Hello and welcome to Comic Culture.

I'm Terrence Dollard, a professor in the Department of Mass Communication at the University of North Carolina at Pembroke.

We're coming to you from Heroes Con 2024.

>> [Terrence narrating] Heroes Con is the place to meet comic creators working in every genre.

From legends to rising stars, Artist Alley is always packed.

On this episode of Comic Culture, I'm speaking with writers and artists.

First up, award winning cover artist, Adam Hughes.

>> On that side of the table, what's it like being at a convention with so many people, so many people wanting stuff signed, so many people wanting to hear those great stories that you tell?

And after three days, how do you keep up the energy?

>> Well, I have no energy anymore cuz I've been doing it for 37 years.

So I ran out of steam about 15, 20 years ago, and you're just talking to the husk of a former life.

>> So you're kind of like a ghoul on Fallout.

>> That's absolutely, absolutely.

So it's just all, I'm pretty sure that after I physically die, I'm contractually obligated to have my body show up at least three years worth of conventions, and nobody will notice the difference.

>> Well, one of the things that you do while you're at a con is you do sketches for people.

So I know it's grueling to sit and draw and come up with so many different new ideas for characters that people love, but you might not.

So how do you sort of find that inspiration to give the customer essentially what they're looking for, but also satisfy you, the guy who's gotta sit and draw?

>> Well, because I charge them.

My inspiration comes from mainly my mortgage, the Internal Revenue Service, and my wife's enormous credit card debt.

So run from your dreams, kids.

Don't do it.

Don't do it.

>> And the last question, I know you said that you've been doing this for 37 years, but at one point, you were that comic book fan.

You were that kid going to the corner store, going through the spinner rack.

So if you were just here as a fan, didn't have any other responsibilities, what would you be looking for?

Would it be a comic?

Would it be original art?

Would it be that artist to sign something for you?

>> Gosh, it would be that comic book, because when I was a kid, I didn't really connect the names at the beginning of the comic with real people.

And I sure as heck didn't think that you could buy the originals.

That's not possible.

This is magic.

You can't buy magic.

So yeah, I'd be looking for holes in my comic collection.

>> [Terrence narrating] Because so many comic creators attend Heroes Con, it's a chance for me to meet people I've interviewed, but never met face to face, like cartoonist Thom Zahler.

>> What's it like being at a convention where you're working in the studio by yourself, and now you're out in the public, and you're meeting the people who enjoy your work?

>> This is where I refuel to go back to the studio, because so much of my life is me alone with my two cats in an 8 by 20 studio.

And this is where I get to see the energy from people who like the work that I do.

It eventually becomes like being on a first date for four days, because you have to keep that energy up.

But it's still, it's where I know that my work is finding an audience.

And that's the stuff that at two in the morning will keep me going when I have to finish a job.

>> And you're doing a lot of YA books, so, am I correct?

>> Well, I'm doing YA and I'm doing romance stuff.

>> Okay, I know, Capes and- >> Yeah, Love and Capes.

>> Love and Capes.

I have a new project coming out that hasn't officially been announced about cats that see ghosts.

That's a very young reader's book.

But yeah, I also do Time and Vine and Cupid's Arrows, a lot of stuff for webtoons, so like teen, I don't know exactly where they put it, teen, 20s.

>> So are you able to, at the con, meet the folks who are reading your work, the younger readers?

Cuz I think that's what cons are great for, sort of bringing new readers in.

>> Yeah, especially like on Sunday Kids Day.

Since I worked on the My Little Pony stuff, I still have a lot of that on my table, and that is very much, it draws people in.

And meeting the young kids who are excited is my favorite part.

>> And you mentioned My Little Pony.

It's one of those cultural touchstones that for some reason, became really popular within the last five to ten years.

So again, this is something that is for the younger reader, but also there is a rabid fan base of older readers.

>> My Little Pony was written in that kind of perfect George Lucas, Star Wars, four, five, and six way, where it works for you as a kid, it works for you as an adult, and it doesn't insult either audience.

It's really hard to write that way, but when you do it, it executes so well, because you're not talking down anyone.

There's still something for everybody to enjoy.

Like one of the first episodes of Pony that I watched when I was getting ready to write on it, they dropped a Top Gun reference in it.

I'm like, well, nobody in the demographic that this is aimed for is trying to get that.

But, and the stories were a little more complicated than I thought they were gonna be.

I was expecting one thing, and it was just, it had a depth to it that made it easy to get into that world.

>> And speaking of getting into that world, I mean, we are comic fans, as well as, well, you're a comic professional, I'm a comic, I guess, journalist.

>> I'm also a fan.

>> What, if you were just here as a fan, what would you be looking for?

Would it be like, there's that one comic that I always wanted to get?

Is it I'm gonna go and scan some original art?

Is it I've gotta get this autograph from my favorite artist?

>> It would be talking to the artists who put me on my path.

There are a lot of artists who don't know what an influence they were.

I'm at the point, as far as my collection goes, I have all the old books I need.

There's old books I want to read.

I find myself going to a lot of the omnibuses, omnibi.

I just read the Rom Omnibus cuz I'd never read that before, but I still like that Bronze Age way of storytelling.

But being able to go up to Joe Staten or Walter Simonson or any of those guys who, over the years, I've gotten to know anyway.

But just being able to tell them...

I had a friend who got married, and when he got married, his brother-in-law to be said the reason that he knew that they were right for each other is that when they were out at the bachelor party, every story my friend Chris told ended with, "and that's how I met Amy."

And for me, Jeanette Kahn ran Dynamite Magazine, which had Joe Kubert stuff in it, and that's part of how I knew to go to the Kubert school.

There are so many, I had a character in Dial H for Hero that was drawn by Howard Bender, who I met my first year at Kubert.

All that stuff just kind of piles on top of each other, and being able to tell that one person, I've read your stuff and I learned this from you, or you're part of the reason that I got into this, that's what I would be doing here.

>> Artists who work in different styles and in different genres within the comics medium, interact in a way that you wouldn't expect, you might have somebody who works in finance, but they might not necessarily talk to somebody who's a lawyer.

So it seems that this community is welcoming of just about anyone who is a creative on that side of the- >> Yeah, there's a commonality to it where when you're seeing someone working in different discipline, they're doing tricks you can't explain.

Like, you've seen Michael Cho's work where it's color going up to no line, like my brain doesn't work like that.

And I'm just so fascinated to see him work or look at his work.

But there's still, I mean, there's a common language.

One of the things I love about coming to, especially an artist heavy show, is when I'm at home talking to my friends, I have to always explain the thing that, like, this thing is driving me, like there's a thing that happens when you draw where you forget how something works.

Like I've drawn legs forever, but one day... and I think it's you learn too much, but I can't figure out how the leg fits into the hip anymore.

And all of a sudden that breaks in my head, and I have to explain that to other people, but at an artist show I can say, "you know the thing where you forget how to draw?"

"Oh yeah, it happens to me all the time."

Like, you get to have faster and deeper conversations.

I was talking with a friend of mine last night, he had a piece in the auction, and he's like, "I'm not fond of it."

I'm like, "I like how you have sharp lines here for Wolverine and curved lines here for Deadpool, and the contrast between."

He's like, "that's exactly what I was going for."

[Terrence laughs] So yeah, it's just like it's a quicker language.

Like we all kind of speak the same thing, even if you're doing cartoony or complicated or computer or whatever.

>> Thank you so much.

>> My pleasure, thank you.

>> [Terrence narrating] Heroes Con is also a chance for me to meet new creators and build connections for future interviews, like I did with Chris Williams.

>> Chris, you are exhibiting in Indie Alley.

So can you tell us a little bit about your work?

>> I've been a screen printer for about 20 years, mostly doing work for Cat's Cradle in Carrboro, North Carolina.

And I've made about 1,000 gig posters for them over the years.

And then since 2018, 2019, I've been doing sequential work and making a series of graphic novels and zines and many comics.

And usually dealing with, I've dealt with a lot of depression, specifically my bipolar depression.

The books deal a lot with loss and going through, trying to go through day to day stuff.

But also a lot of hope and trying to see a light at the end of the tunnel.

>> That's fascinating because I think a lot of people, and I'm sure not the viewers of this show because they're really intelligent.

But a lot of people think of comics as strictly superheroes or sci-fi.

And there's this whole other side, and I think it's great that Heroes Con embraces that in Indie Alley.

As you are doing a comic that is, I'm imagining, deeply personal, is there ever a concern that you might be revealing too much?

Or is it mitigated by the fact that you might be helping two, three, four people, five people out there who read it and get some inspiration?

>> That's a great question.

Cuz yes, it is very personal for me.

And yeah, sometimes I worry less now than I used to.

But that I might be overexposing or maybe just even sharing stuff that no one wants to hear.

Because a lot of that, I know from my personal upbringing, that's a lot of that stuff you wanna keep under wraps.

And you don't wanna share with people because no one wants to hear about the bad things that are going on.

But I've found through my work that it doesn't necessarily connect with everyone.

But it does connect with specific people who are having shared experiences.

And it's good for them to know that other people are having those experiences.

And so some real good comes out of it.

>> Cons like this are a great place to meet the people who read your book.

And I'm imagining you might be on social media, you might be connecting with fans that way.

But being at a convention, being at a table, what's that like, that difference between the online versus the face to face interaction?

>> The online is great and being able to communicate with people.

Because being able to connect with people who are far away and that I might not be able to see in person.

But to actually be able to be here and to shake someone's hand and speak face to face.

Especially after a number of years because of COVID, where it was a forced separation.

To be able to be here and be in person, it means a lot to me.

And it fills me with warmth to be able to be across from the person, just see them and talk to them.

>> You are in Indie Alley, you've got different creators that you're surrounded by, so have you had the opportunity to maybe go and do some of that networking?

Where you talk to someone whose work you like or maybe somebody who just is there.

And since you're neighbors or something, you can just strike up that relationship.

>> With the face to face interactions, a friend of mine, Eli Schwab, that runs Cosmic Lion Productions.

He lives all the way over in California, and I'm based in Durham, North Carolina.

So we only get to see each other in person here every year.

So yeah, to be able to talk to him and to network with him.

And yeah, I love it, it's great.

>> For the folks watching at home, if they wanted to find out more about you on the web, where can they find you?

>> My website, plasticflame.com has links to my posters and to all my books.

>> Thank you so much.

>> Yeah, thank you.

>> [Terrance narrating] At Heroes Con, I moderate panels, which is another way for me to meet comic creators and lay the groundwork for the next season of Comic Culture.

That's how I met former Marvel editor, Terry Kavanagh.

>> As a professional working in comics, what's it like meeting with the folks who read your comics?

>> It's a privilege, it really is.

I was always aware, I was a huge comic book fan when I was growing up.

I grew up as an only child and I loved my comic books.

My mom was a librarian, she didn't care what I was reading as long as I was reading, and comic books were really, really important to me.

And I was aware every day when I was working at Marvel on and off staff, that if I was doing that for one person, I was lucky.

That was a privilege for me.

The conventions, you get to meet those people and understand that that's real.

That, it was just an idea at that time when you're on staff, but now I know it.

People come up and they tell you their experiences, it's very moving.

>> And it's funny because you write a comic or you edit a comic and you see sales numbers, but it's a lot different when you meet the people who tell you that that story had that big impact on them.

So I know for me there are certain comics that really resonate.

Have you heard from people about certain comics that you've written that was that gateway for them?

>> Interestingly enough, the Clone Saga, which I was vilified for, for a very, very long time, had a lot of impact on people because at the core of the story, it was about identity and finding one's identity and who they are and who they're meant to be.

And I think that's an issue for a lot of comic book kids, especially.

I had an experience in Baltimore a couple of years ago, where a young man came up to me, I'm gonna say he was 17 or 18 years old, very shy.

And he had a trade paperback copy of the Clone Saga and asked me to sign it.

And I did, and I was chatting with him, his name was Joshua.

And I asked him, how do you even know, but you're way too young to know anything about this.

And he told me when he had been in school a couple of years before that, he was having a lot of identity issues, I don't know what they were.

And his dad, who was a big comic book fan, brought him that trade paperback, and he just loved it.

And so he really wanted to come and get my autograph.

Fine, I chatted with him about 20 minutes, cut to an hour and a half later.

An older gentleman came up and said, "I just wanna shake your hand.

I don't know if you remember, but my son was talking to you earlier."

And I said, "Joshua?"

And he told me the whole story about how when COVID hit, and they couldn't go to school anymore, and they were doing it all via Zoom.

When it ended, and they were supposed to go back to class, Joshua refused to go back.

He was having a lot of issues and all that.

And that's when I guess he bought him the trade paperback, but still he didn't go back.

And he had gotten into a couple of colleges, but he wasn't gonna go.

And the dad came over, and he just kept shaking my hand, and he wouldn't let go.

And finally said, "I just want you to know he's up in his room crying right now that he's gonna go to college."

And now we're Facebook friends, and he's brought his girlfriend to meet me the next year at Baltimore Comic Con.

And that's so rewarding, I can't tell you.

>> That is a fantastic story.

And it's gotta be universal that there is that one book, that one thing that touches us as readers, that makes us fans, that makes us wanna seek out comic creators.

So what was that book for you that you came across and then you said, "you know what, comics are pretty good, I think I'm gonna stick with them?"

>> I can't say there was, or I can't remember if there was one.

That was quite a long time ago.

But I had the basic introduction to comics where at barber shops and dentist's office, first I was reading Harvey Comics, and then graduated to Archie Comics, and then superheroes and never looked back.

And at that time, maybe Marvel was releasing eight titles a month, and so this was sort of doable for me.

And I remember I had a local candy store run by an elderly couple, and comic books came out on Tuesday at that point.

And I would literally, I went to Catholic school, we weren't allowed to leave the premises, but it was like three blocks.

And I would, first off, my parents would give me money for lunch.

They're gone now, so they're not gonna see this interview.

And I would never spend it on lunch, and I would save it to spend on comic books when they came out.

And then I would just run to this candy store, the three blocks from school during lunch on Tuesdays.

And the elderly couple got to the point where they waited for me to get there to clip the little metal binders around it, so I could clip and be the first to pick which ones I wanted.

And so it was, I don't know, it was a whole process for me.

It wasn't just the comics.

It was getting them and having understanding with other people about them and then meeting other people that also had the same passion for comic books.

In grammar school, I really didn't know any, they all borrowed my comics and read my comics.

But I didn't really have any friends who also cared about comics.

High school was different.

Suddenly there were other people.

>> You are a fan turned pro, but that fandom or that love of comics is still there.

>> Absolutely.

>> If you had nothing better to do today, and if you could go to any of the booths, any of the artists, any of the original art, what is it that you'd be looking for as a fan?

>> I collect action figures.

I do, and I've so far resisted at this convention because they take up so much physical space.

They really do, and my wife is tolerant to a point.

I have a home office, and as long as things don't spill out of that, she's now, since we have a place in New York and in New Orleans, I have two home offices, so that gave me a little more room.

But there's limits to what I can, and also as I get older, I realize my kids don't care about any of this.

So it's just gonna become a huge burden to them when they die.

And I justify it by thinking, well, they've been a huge burden to me, so that's when I get my revenge.

So they're also good.

I mean, I like them.

I like the kids.

>> Oh, the kids.

>> I like them, but they're a burden.

[LAUGH] Hopefully they won't watch this.

[LAUGH] >> Well, they'll just remember this, they'll play this at the wake.

>> Yeah.

[LAUGH] >> You're at Heroes Con with people that you used to work with, or people that you may only see at conventions.

So how much of a social component is it for you to meet up with your fellow professionals and- >> It's a huge part.

That really is.

I, there are people I haven't seen in decades.

There are people I did not, or that I worked with decades ago, but never met in person, that I've now come to know and spend time with.

I've met newer people in the industry from doing shared panels, etc.

I mean, for me, half the fun is the bar in the evening.

And it's not just the bourbon.

>> Thank you so much.

>> You're very welcome.

>> [Terrance narrating] Having a booth on the convention floor lets the Comic Culture team interact with guests, and of course, gives us space to shoot our interviews.

Over the course of three days, we struck up a great relationship with our neighbors, like Joe Kubert School President, Anthony Marques.

>> You are the president?

>> Yes.

>> Of the Kubert School.

>> I like that you questioned that, you were surprised.

[LAUGHS] >> Well, a man this young, being so prestigious.

But you're here at Heroes Con, you were supposed to be here a few years ago, but you weren't able to be here.

So you're here now, we're neighbors.

>> I'm so excited to be here.

This is the first time being back here at Heroes Con in almost five years.

It's an amazing show.

We were kind of chit-chatting about it before, and we were both just remarking on what an incredible crowd this is.

And it's really a comic-centric crowd, and it's just so enjoyable and refreshing to be a part of.

>> You are here, you're not only president of the Kubert School, which is, I guess, the premier school for graphic design and comic book and cartooning, if not the country, perhaps the world.

And you are also an artist yourself, working with DC Comics.

How are you kind of balancing between representing the university or the school that you work for, and representing yourself as an artist, maybe doing some commissions and making some people happy?

>> It's difficult, I'm not gonna lie about that.

But it's really incredible, we have an amazing staff at the school.

My wife, Jacqueline Marques, which is the director of the school as well, and she really does a lot of the heavy lifting.

And she does a really fantastic job at that.

But it's just making sure that you get the work done.

If it's something that you enjoy doing, you're gonna find a way to get it done.

And I've been very, very lucky, very fortunate to be able to work on certain projects that bring me a lot of joy and happiness.

And I've been able to find ways to also kinda get my family involved in it.

So right now I'm working on a Superman project, and I'm really, really excited about that.

I think you and I have chatted about this in the past, where that was my dream goal, to work on Superman.

So I'm finally working on it.

So I like to bring my kids into my studio at home, and I'll have them kinda sit back and maybe have them fill in the black with the ink, or I'll have them pencil it a little bit.

And we just have a really big, fun time with it.

But priority number one is always my family, making sure I find ways to be involved and go to the different games and sporting events, or Boy Scouts, or Girl Scouts, whatever's going on, and make sure that I'm there.

But if it's something that you enjoy doing, you'll find a way to get it done.

>> You're at a convention, you are a professional, but I'm assuming, like you said, Superman, you always dreamed of working on Superman.

So you are also a fan of comics.

>> Of course, yeah.

>> If you were not here working, where would you be and what sort of comic would you be hoping to find?

>> Well, I'm always into the artists, I always love artists.

And so growing up, my favorite artist was Dan Jurgens, and Dan Jurgens is here.

[LAUGH] So I'd probably be waiting over in that line and bothering him, trying to get autographs on my Death of Superman comic, and Reign of Superman when he's coming back.

And then I'd be running back and forth trying to find all my other favorite artists, because this show has an incredible guest list.

>> You and I both love Superman, Dan Jurgens.

It's funny because I brought two comics with me to get signed.

One is a Jose Luis Garcia Lopez comic.

>> How could you not want that?

>> Because every time I see Jose, he is an absolute delight to talk with, and I just wanna have him sign something that I own.

And then the other one is my Death of Superman number 75.

>> I love that.

>> The newsstand edition, the one that I read and reread, cuz that one was more special than the sealed one.

So as somebody who is a professional, do you still have that collection of comics that you just kinda revere?

>> So just speaking of Jose Luis Garcia Lopez, when I was an assistant editor at DC, that's how I started off at.

That was my opening position, and he would come into the office, and he would bring these original pages in with him.

And I would be so lucky, he would come down to my office and we'd just bring in these pages, and they were absolutely incredible.

And to be able to sit there, and I'm just like, "why isn't everybody in my office right now going through these?"

And he would just hang out, and I'd get the chance to take a look at them.

And they were gorgeous, just to be able to hold his original pages, go through.

And like you were saying, one of the nicest people you could ever meet.

So I always appreciated that very much.

And as far as different books that I really revere, yeah, I mean, there's certain books that were key, I guess, for me when I was growing up.

Right, so of course, The Death of Superman issues, but we were just talking about it.

There's this particular issue, I think it's Superman number 20 with the green cover where he's wearing the executioner's mask.

And it wasn't so much that cover, but it did make me go, I wanna know what's happening inside that issue, cuz why is he looking like that?

But the opening page is John Byrne Superman, and it's so powerful.

It's really incredible, and I always go back to that and look at it, cuz I'm just like, "how do you find a way to make something look iconic and impactful with somebody just standing there?"

And you could take a look at that page one and look at it and be like, everything that you need to know is right there.

It's absolutely incredible.

I also have to give a major shout out to my older brother's collection of records that he had, because he had those old superhero records.

And so I'd go through those and flip through those, and I loved the artwork on them, and it got me drawing at a young age, and it just never stopped.

>> It's been lost to time now, which is a shame, but I had, it was a Neil Adams cover.

>> Yes.

>> Batman running on the beach, and on the back there was a Batman and Robin montage page or something.

And being a young fan, I wrote into DC Comics and I asked Dick Giordano, who was the editor at the time.

>> I love that.

>> And he said, well, if you send me a copy of the picture, I can tell you drew it.

So my mom worked in an office, sent in some photocopies, and a few days later, no problem, that's Neil Adams, and I did the inks.

And getting those pages back, the letters back from Dick Giordano on the iconic DC Comics letterhead with the characters on the back, so it was sort of like a watermark there.

It's just one of those things where you look at those pictures, and it's those weird things that get kids into comics.

Whether it was the Super Friends on Saturday morning, or listening to the really, really terrible radio drama of the Man-Bat.

>> I do wanna throw in there one thing, just cuz you're talking about when you're younger and reaching out to Dick Giordano.

I always wanted to draw comics, from the time I was really little all the way up to now, and hopefully forever.

But I remember telling my dad, that's what I wanted to do when I was a little kid.

He goes, "well, just pick up the yellow pages and give them a call."

So I literally would just cold call Marvel and DC all the time, and I would talk with Chris Duffy at DC Comics and Jim Krueger at Marvel.

And the reason I wanted to say their names is cuz they deserve a shout out for not hanging up on a fifth grader when he would call up and just start talking about comics.

But it was really cool, and there's been a lot of people that have really helped me out along the way, and I really appreciate it.

So a lot of times when I come to these shows and I get some attention or I get to draw stuff, it's not just for me, but it's also for everyone else that helped me along the way.

And I appreciate everything.

>> Thank you so much.

>> Thank you so much.

>> That's all the time we have for this episode of Comic Culture.

We'll see you again soon.

[heroic music] ♪ >> [Terrance narrating] Comic Culture is a production of the Department of Mass Communication at the University of North Carolina at Pembroke.