I'm joined by Republican Senator# Kevin Cramer from North Dakota.

Senator Cramer, it's good to see# you, sir.

Thank you for joining us.

SEN. KEVIN CRAMER (R-ND): Good to be# with you.

Thank you for the AM NA NAWAZ: I want to ask# you.

About a w you were asked about the negotiations And you had this to say.

You said: "If we# don't try to do something when we hav moment to do something, all of those swing# voters in swing states for whom the bo is the number one priority have every right to# look at us and go, you blew your opportunity."

So you will vote to block# this bill.

In your own words,## are you blowing your opportunity# for some kind of border bill?

SEN. KEVIN CRAMER: Well, a couple of things.

First of all, a week ago, we from the beginning.

This process has been bad# from the beginning.

It's been too secretive,## too closed, not transparent through a# committee process like it should be.

But all of that said, James Lankford did a# masterful job, and there's nobody who could## do it better, in negotiating what ends up# being a bill that's got some -- obviously,## anything that's between two sides that are# narrowly divided, some things we like and## some things we don't and some things the other# side likes and things the other Al l of that said, now we have the text, we# have the opportunity to look at the text.## But as I think Leader McConnell said so well in# your piece there, in Lisa's piece, is that this## bill is not going to become law, because the# speaker of the House says it's dead on arrival.

Ironically, the House is trying to impeach# the secretary of homeland security which would be dead on arrival over here.# But if dead on arrival is the standard,## there's not a lot of point in spending a lot# of political -- a lot more politi when there are other priorities,# even in this own -- this bill,## that have to get funded like support# for Israel and support for Ukrain So, it's a combination of politics,# moving parts, changing narratives,## for sure.

But the biggest issue is the# process.

And that's what bothers me,## is that four months of negotiating# in good faith, but largely in secret,## leading to final text, and then Chuck Schumer# wants to put it on the floor right away.

Let's move -- let's proceed# to the measure immediately,## before everybody's had a chance to read the text,# to compare it to eithe AMNA NAWAZ: Well, Senator, if I may, if I may... SEN. KEVIN CRAMER: Sure.

I mean, yes, there were the lead negotiators,## a Republican, a Democrat,# an independent, in SEN. KEVIN CRAMER: Yes.

the way.

You had some of the details along# the way, so it wasn't entirely Bu t I do want to put to you what the# president of the Border Patrol Council said.

SEN. KEVIN CRAMER: Yes.

can argue it's not better than what we currently# have.

Why woul SEN. KEVIN CRAMER: Yes.

AMNA NAWAZ: So why not... SEN. KEVIN CRAMER: So.

SEN. KEVIN CRAMER: Y because in a world of divided# govern in the right direction is still better# than no change in the right direction.

I think the substance of this bill,# where there are some prob is that there is an awful lot of generosity for# legal counsel, for exa open-ended dollar amounts that could be# problematic.

Sanctuary cities, I mean,## here, we're going to reward the pull factor that# tracks people in the first place to run this risk.

So it's not a layup one way or the other.# I would agree with Brandon Judd that it's## an increment in the right direction,# but does it keep us from doing more## good things in another format?

I don't# give up on this.

I would love, frankly,## to move forward with the bill and then# start working on it and amending it.

But that political will is not there right# now.

The pragmatic approach is wo uld be to take it out and deal with Ukraine and# Israel and the Indo-Pacific and the Middle East## in general.

We have got lots of demands on our own# military that we have to meet, and then maybe take## the border piece and work on it a little bit,# along with the National Border Patrol Council.

I mean, according to them --# and I met with them today,## as a lot of members did -- this is much# better than H.R.2.

There are no in H.R.2 to do the very things that H.R.2 says# -- that the House says they want to get done.

So I think there's still room to perfect this and# at least make it better, even with our Democratic## friends.

And I think we should continue that.# But I do think it's time to move forward with... (CROSSTALK) we know former President Donald Tr SEN. KEVIN CRAMER: Sure.

SE N. KEVIN CRAMER: You know, I don't think it## changes a lo But, again.. (CRO SEN. KEVIN CRAMER: It doesn't change it for me o to your point, including as recently as last week,# of the process moving forward, tr ying to get some tweaks to it if we can,# all while Donald Trump was saying no, no, no.

So it's not so much for me.

But I do# think, in the House, he does have an## awful lot of influence, understandably,# by the way.

It's not irrelevant what t former president who demonstrated# he could provide border security,## contrasting with the current president, who's# now going to be his opponent, who's done nothing## except to let 10 million people illegally# into the country and wave them on through.

I mean, this is pretty clear-cut when# you look at the two men that are running## for president and who does the better# job.

I'm just saying that, as senators we have to make up our own mind with the facts# on the ground.

And I think that the National## Border Patrol Council makes a very, very good# point and has been very, by the way, involved## with the committee that was working on this,# the ad hoc committee that was working on this,## which is why you see the types of resources# and the support that the AMNA NAWAZ: Yes.

is tied to the border funding.

It was back in# December there w I know it was reported, and you said, you were# quite strident with the administration leaders and military leaders there saying that they should# push Democrats, convince Democrats that Ukraine## was a vital national security issue, and therefore# Democrats should give on immigration concessions.

SEN. KEVIN CRAMER: Yes.

why is it not vital enough now to agree to this?

SEN. KEVIN CRAMER: So, because we can --# I think we're prepared to mo hopefully, with Ukraine support apart from this.

Remember, the reason that we have the# border piece into this be cause people who didn't want to support# Ukraine insisted on it.

And I love that.## I love the fact that we had an opportunity# to secure our border as well as Ukraine's.

Both are really important, either together or# separately.

And I remain committed to that.

A I think the administration waited way too long# and moved way too slowly to support Ukraine,## or maybe they would have won# this war by now.

It's still in## our national best interest to provide# them the lethal aid I'd like to see us strip the -- some of the# humanitarian aid and the direct government## support for funding their government and# rather focus on helping them win the war.## That's what's in America's best interest.# That's what's in the West's best interest.

AMNA NAWAZ: That is Republican Senator Kevin# Cramer from North Dako Senator, thank you.

Good to see you.

SEN. KEVIN CRAMER: My pleasure.