[piano intro] - [Narrator] "Shaped by Sound" is made possible through support from Come Hear NC, a program of the North Carolina Arts Council within the North Carolina Department of Natural and Cultural Resources.

- "Shaped by Sound".

[clapperboard snaps] 13 North Carolina artists.

Their songs, their stories, this stage.

[upbeat music] ["Sanctuary"] ["Sanctuary" continues] ["Sanctuary" continues] ♪ Feeling bad ♪ ♪ Feeling blue ♪ ♪ Can't get out of my own mind ♪ ♪ But I know how to sing about it ♪ ♪ Ring of bone ♪ ♪ A little lonely ♪ ♪ I better hit the road, child ♪ ♪ We can cry into the phone a while ♪ ♪ Jubilee ♪ ♪ Find me ♪ ♪ Steady with your hope now ♪ ♪ That little light's gotta last a while ♪ ♪ Like an arrow to the marrow ♪ ♪ I know it feels like hell now ♪ ♪ Till we make it to the other side ♪ ♪ You want good news ♪ ♪ You want sanctuary ♪ ♪ When you try to get real ♪ ♪ While they break you on the wheel ♪ ♪ You wanna move ♪ ♪ You want sanctuary ♪ ♪ That's all I can offer to you ♪ ♪ From the bottom to the bone ♪ ♪ Oh, to the bone ♪ ♪ Get used to the bad news ♪ ♪ It's all part of the show, child ♪ ♪ Handsome Johnny had to go, child ♪ ♪ What did you feel, brother ♪ ♪ Bad dreams ♪ ♪ I know it feels like hell now ♪ ♪ There's little things that'll cut you down ♪ ♪ Ragged people ♪ ♪ Hard times ♪ ♪ And the lightning strikes the poorhouse ♪ ♪ The rich man cries like a crocodile ♪ ♪ Salvation ♪ ♪ Despair ♪ ♪ But the game that they taught me ♪ ♪ Sometimes it feels like it just ain't fair ♪ ♪ You want good news ♪ ♪ You want sanctuary ♪ ♪ When you try to get real ♪ ♪ While they break you on the wheel ♪ ♪ You wanna move ♪ ♪ You want sanctuary ♪ ♪ That's all I can offer to you ♪ ♪ From the bottom to the bone ♪ ♪ Yeah, to the bone ♪ ♪ Ah, to the bone ♪ ♪ Ah, to the bone ♪ ♪ To the bone ♪ ♪ Ah, to the bone ♪ ♪ To the bone ♪ ♪ To the bone ♪ ♪ Feeling bad ♪ ♪ Feeling blue ♪ ♪ Can't get out of my own mind ♪ ♪ But I know how to sing about it ♪ ["Sanctuary" continues] ["Sanctuary" continues] - MC Taylor of Hiss Golden Messenger, thank you for being on "Shaped by Sound".

- I'm glad to be here.

- Thank you.

- Thanks for having me.

- MC, you come to us in North Carolina by way of California.

Can you talk to us a little bit about growing up in California and sort of your early experiences with music in California?

- Sure.

I grew up in Southern California, which it really feels like ground zero for American, I don't know, what we think of as like American popular culture sort of writ large.

I was a skateboarder.

Like, I was a very dedicated skateboarder and surfer.

And I thought that, like, one of those two things would be my life.

As a kid, I thought, I hoped.

I was really into music when I was a kid, starting really young.

That's all I would spend my allowance on.

But I liked stuff that seemed to exist on the fringes, which was also stuff that was easy to find at, like, a skate shop, which was like, at that time, just a subculture way off to the side.

But I was also really into, like, early rap music that was happening then.

- Really?

- And it seemed like all part of the same thing, which is music that was way on the fringes that your parents really were not feeling.

- [James] Right.

- So, you know, like, the big ones then would've been like early Beastie Boys and Run-D.M.C., but, like, very quickly, I was into Eric B.

& Rakim, Stetsasonic, X Clan, Public Enemy.

I still, like, really credit that music, early hip hop, which was built on such, like, such nasty drum breaks.

- Right.

- Funkiest bars, and looping them.

- [James] Right.

- And that's still inside me.

Like, when we play, when Hiss Gold Messenger plays the stuff that is like, so, like, 16th note, I'm not nodding to The Allman Brothers, I'm nodding to, like, the hip hop that I grew up on, which is like, so- - That's so cool.

- I mean, I just like funky American music.

That's sort of what it is.

- Sure.

- But, like, the way that I was exposed to, like, what I would think of as, like, pocket in music is that stuff.

- Right.

- And as always, I've always loved that music.

Even as I've gone into so many other areas with music, places, like, discovered so many other genres and sub genres, like, I've always loved hip hop.

That's like a, I don't know.

Even when I'm not, like, really paying attention to it, I just, it's like, yeah, it hits for me.

["In the Middle of It"] ["In the Middle of It" continues] ["In the Middle of It" continues] ["In the Middle of It" continues] ["In the Middle of It" continues] ["In the Middle of It" continues] ["In the Middle of It" continues] ♪ Even the rocks were dreaming ♪ ♪ On that darkest of mornings ♪ ♪ The Portland Rose ♪ ♪ She kept on running ♪ ♪ Runs so true ♪ ♪ I was a voice in the chorus ♪ ♪ Then the stone flower blue ♪ ♪ Dropped me in the middle of it ♪ ♪ In the middle of it, oh ♪ ♪ Just a little one ♪ ♪ In the middle of it, oh ♪ ♪ Just a little one ♪ ♪ Hearts run wild ♪ ♪ Under the sawdust moon ♪ ♪ At the foot of the mountain ♪ ♪ I'll see you when I see you ♪ ♪ In the middle of it, oh ♪ ♪ Just a little one ♪ ♪ In the middle of it, oh ♪ ♪ Just a little one ♪ ♪ In the middle of it, oh ♪ ♪ Just a little one ♪ ♪ In the middle of it, oh ♪ ♪ Just a little one ♪ ♪ Through those days, those pearly days ♪ ♪ When all was revolution and light ♪ ♪ Oh, babe, that was right ♪ ♪ Running on a rope ♪ ♪ With black tinted lenses ♪ ♪ Ain't it sad, Maria ♪ ♪ I guess that's how it ends ♪ ♪ In the middle of it, oh ♪ ♪ Just a little one ♪ ♪ In the middle of it, oh ♪ ♪ Just a little one ♪ ♪ In the middle of it, oh ♪ ♪ Just a little one ♪ ♪ In the middle of it, oh ♪ ♪ Just a little one ♪ ♪ In the middle of it, oh ♪ ♪ Just a little one ♪ ♪ In the middle of it, oh ♪ ♪ Just a little one ♪ ["In the Middle of It" continues] - I wanna know how you got from California to North Carolina.

- I wanted to evolve.

I was hearing all kinds of music at this point that was being made, that I was like, "That's the kind of stuff I like."

I heard Low for the first time around then, and just people that were dealing with dynamics in a different way.

A bunch of time passed, I kept on playing, I was kind of starting to write my own songs, and I maybe started to, like, look back towards some of the stuff I heard as a kid, like The Birds and stuff like that.

And I was just interested in, like, exploring that palette of sound, which is what I did.

For a really long time, I formed a band, lived in San Francisco, toured and made a bunch of records with this band for a decade, but I was just kinda like, by the end of that, I was like, "I'm not, I'm just, like, kinda"- - Like a plateau?

- Yeah, kind of just had flatlined.

I needed something new, and I decided to go back to school.

But I was in my early 30s at this point.

And I was interested in folklore programs.

- Interesting.

- Of which there were not that many.

- Right.

- But what I knew about North Carolina, I liked, because I'd been through here on tour a few times.

I didn't understand the geography of it at all.

I didn't look at any map or anything.

It's just unthinkable now.

So, my wife and I decided to move here.

We didn't know anybody.

And I got into the folklore program at UNC, and we moved to Chapel Hill.

- What brought you to folklore?

Like, why were you gravitating toward that?

- I would say that folklore is less about storytelling and more about everyday culture and the way that we imbue it, the way that we can make, like, sort of organized communities around certain things and talk about those things.

I started writing these songs that eventually became the record, "Bad Debt".

But once I finished enough songs, and at that point, I was playing those songs for enough people, like, the recordings, and people were going like, "Man, this is really cool.

This is not like... I have not heard you do anything like this.

This is very compelling."

["Shaky Eyes"] ["Shaky Eyes" continues] ["Shaky Eyes" continues] ♪ Last night, everybody loved me ♪ ♪ And nothing hurt too much ♪ ♪ Been hiding out in rooms with no names ♪ ♪ Michael's getting hooked on the stuff ♪ ♪ Nobody's been to the bottom ♪ ♪ But baby, have you heard ♪ ♪ Let me be the one with the shovel ♪ ♪ Let me do my worst ♪ ♪ I traded in my western sky ♪ ♪ For a pair of shaky eyes ♪ ♪ There's got to be some kind of reason ♪ ♪ Crusading children go by ♪ ♪ Don't everybody cry ♪ ♪ I'll come running whenever you need me ♪ ♪ There's rain in Mexico City ♪ ♪ La Condesa is soaking wet ♪ ♪ Oh, they're struggling down in Houston town ♪ ♪ And LA bakes like a forgotten cake ♪ ♪ I'm still dancing a line in the middle of the room ♪ ♪ Jesus Christ, won't you give me an answer ♪ ♪ And whatever you're thinking, I already know ♪ ♪ You got nothing to match my nothing ♪ ♪ I traded in my western sky ♪ ♪ For a pair of shaky eyes ♪ ♪ There's got to be some kind of reason ♪ ♪ Crusading children go by ♪ ♪ Don't everybody cry ♪ ♪ I'll come running whenever you need me ♪ ♪ When they call the dance, dance like fire ♪ ♪ Oh, they'll been looking at you through a two-way mirror ♪ ♪ Oh, nobody tells you joy can kill you ♪ ♪ Coming in the front door like a river ♪ ♪ I traded in my western sky ♪ ♪ For a pair of shaky eyes ♪ ♪ There's got to be some kind of reason ♪ ♪ Crusading children go by ♪ ♪ Don't everybody cry ♪ ♪ I'll come running whenever you need me ♪ ♪ Whenever you need me ♪ ♪ I traded in my western sky ♪ ♪ For a pair of shaky eyes ♪ ♪ There's got to be some kind of reason ♪ ♪ Crusading children go by ♪ ♪ Don't everybody cry ♪ ♪ I'll come running whenever you need me ♪ ♪ I traded in my western sky ♪ ♪ For a pair of shaky eyes ♪ ♪ There's got to be some kind of reason ♪ ♪ Crusading children go by ♪ ♪ Don't everybody cry ♪ ♪ I'll come running whenever you need me ♪ ["Shaky Eyes" continues] - Yeah, so I wanna talk a little bit more about "I'm People".

What are some of the themes in this record that you're trying to put forward to listeners?

- I feel like something that I come back to, this idea that things are hard, the world is chaos, and we better find a way to hold onto our joy despite it.

I'm gonna have a good time.

- Yeah.

- And not, I don't know, somehow avoiding the guilt of that decision, and just, you know?

It's complicated.

- Sure.

Well, even the title sort of itself suggests, you know, community in a shared experience, right?

- Yeah, I mean, that too, is this realization that for some of the, like, most pressing things in the world, like, we're not gonna... We're not gonna be able to tough it out alone.

The only way out is with other people.

- Yeah.

- That feels really present to me right now.

It really does feel like we are seeing, like, the possibilities of people power.

- [James] Right.

- And for me personally, and this is something that I think about a lot and, like, continue to make, revert back to old ways of thinking all the time, I've always been, like, a real lone wolf.

The truth is, like, there's a lot of stuff in my life now that I'm not gonna be able to lone wolf out of.

The only way out is with allowing in the love that people are trying to give me.

- Mm.

So it seems like another act sort of of self-discovery is coming through within this record.

- Totally, totally.

- Yeah.

And I think it's one of those things too where I've been trying to remind myself that maybe it's a little bit harder now, but you still need to go seek joy, find joy.

- That's right.

- Keep it close.

And it could be anything.

- The first verse of the song, "Who You Gonna Run To?

", which is the second song on the record, we played it here, says, "Tuesday night at the Buy & Buy, in the fiddles and the sawdust, as hard as it's been for everyone, I've never felt so perfect," which is a lot of, yeah, a lot of things that are in tension with each other.

- Yeah.

- It's hard for everybody, and I feel good.

That's something that feels vulnerable to say, even, you know what I mean?

- Oh, totally.

- But that's life.

We're not, like, living in, either it's good or it's bad, it's like, we're living in between, and it's always been that way.

- Right.

- To me.

This is my perspective.

- Yeah.

Thank you again for doing this show.

- Oh, thank you.

- Really, really appreciate it, and yeah.

- Thank you so much.

- Take care.

["Who You Gonna Run To?"]

["Who You Gonna Run To?"

Continues] ["Who You Gonna Run To?"

continues] ♪ It's Tuesday night at the Bye & Bye ♪ ♪ In the fiddles and the sawdust ♪ ♪ Hard as it's been for everyone ♪ ♪ I've never felt so perfect ♪ ♪ Where you gonna run to ♪ ♪ Who you gonna run to ♪ ♪ What makes you feel so alive ♪ ♪ That's who you're gonna run to ♪ ♪ Every matchbox dude with a crooked smile ♪ ♪ Got a heart that needs protecting ♪ ♪ Make me a lattice of your inmost light ♪ ♪ Oh, that wind is never gonna catch me ♪ ♪ Where you gonna run to ♪ ♪ Who you gonna run to ♪ ♪ What makes you feel so alive ♪ ♪ That's who you're gonna run to ♪ ♪ The joker moon hangs on the mountain ♪ ♪ Coast to coast through the static ♪ ♪ The midnight poet philosophizes all night long ♪ ♪ I never felt so perfect ♪ ["Who You Gonna Run To?"

Continues] ♪ Where you gonna run to ♪ ♪ Who you gonna run to ♪ ♪ What makes you feel so alive ♪ ♪ That's who you're gonna run to ♪ ♪ Where you gonna run to ♪ ♪ Who you gonna run to ♪ ♪ What makes you feel so alive ♪ ♪ That's who you're gonna run to ♪ ♪ Where you gonna run to ♪ ♪ Who you gonna run to ♪ ♪ What makes you feel so alive ♪ ♪ That's who you're gonna run to ♪ ["Who You Gonna Run To?"

continues] - [James] Thanks for joining us on "Shaped by Sound".

If you'd like to hear more of our discussion from today, you can find it over on our website, pbsnc.org/shapedbysound, or you can find it on the PBS app.

["Last Orders"] ["Last Orders" continues] ♪ Simple dreams kept me running ♪ ♪ Through halcyon days filled with majestic light ♪ ♪ It was the summer I felt alive ♪ ["Last Orders" continues] ♪ Out in the radar fields ♪ ♪ Electric Rain played in living rooms ♪ ♪ It was the summer I felt alive ♪ - [Narrator] "Shaped by Sound" is made possible through support from Come Hear NC, a program of the North Carolina Arts Council within the North Carolina Department of Natural and Cultural Resources.