ANNOUNCER: BRICK BY BRICK IS MADE POSSIBLE THANKS TO LEADING SUPPORT FROM: AND MANY MORE, THANK YOU.

WE COULDN'T DO THIS WORK WITHOUT YOU.

ANNE THOMPSON: HOUSING CHOICE VOUCHERS HAVE BEEN AROUND SINCE THE 1970S, BUT IS THE LARGEST RENTAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM IN THE COUNTRY WORKING?

OTTO GOODEN: IT'S THE ONLY THING THAT REALLY KEPT ME FROM BEING HOMELESS.

IT'S BEEN VITAL AND IMPORTANT PART FOR ME IN MY LIFE.

GWEN BARDEN: THEY WERE GREAT FOR ME, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE I WORKED AND I PAID A PORTION OF RENT AND THEY PAID THE MAJORITY OF IT.

THOMPSON: HOWEVER, THERE AREN'T ENOUGH VOUCHERS TO GO AROUND, AND ONLY 1 IN 4 ELIGIBLE FAMILIES CAN GET ONE.

PLUS BOTH CINCINNATI AND DAYTON PUBLIC HOUSING AUTHORITIES HAVE TEMPORARILY PAUSED ISSUING NEW VOUCHERS DUE TO DEFICITS.

GREG JOHNSON: YOU'RE ALWAYS PLAYING A PUSH PULL GAME, MAKING SURE THAT YOU HAVE ENOUGH FUNDING TO BE SURE THAT YOU CAN LEASE AS MANY FAMILIES IN YOUR COMMUNITY AS POSSIBLE.

THOMPSON: AND WHEN FAMILIES ARE FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO SECURE A HOUSING VOUCHER, THE TIME IS LIMITED FOR RESIDENTS TO SEARCH AND FIND A PLACE THAT ACCEPTS THEM.

JENNIFER HEAPY: THERE'S ALWAYS A SHORTFALL OF LANDLORDS AND SO WE'RE CONSTANTLY TRYING TO DO OUTREACH.

CAMPBELL: NOT NECESSARILY THE PEOPLE YOU'RE RENTING TO, BUT THE GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRACY AND THE POLITICS THAT YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH.

ANNE THOMPSON: ON THIS EPISODE OF BRICK BY BRICK, LET'S REVISIT THE EVOLUTION OF PUBLIC HOUSING, SPECIFICALLY THE HOUSING CHOICE VOUCHER.

WE'LL LOOK AT THEIR CURRENT STATUS, HOW THEY WORK, WHO'S BENEFITING, AND WHAT THE EVIDENCE SAYS ABOUT THEIR SUCCESS AND AREAS TO IMPROVE.

RICH MONOCCHIO: IT'S NO LONGER ENOUGH TO SAY TO A FAMILY, ESPECIALLY FAMILIES WITH -- HOUSEHOLDS WITH LARGE -- A LOT OF KIDS, A DISABLED VETERAN, AN OLDER PERSON.

IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO SAY, "HERE'S YOUR VOUCHER, HERE'S 60 DAYS."

ANNE THOMPSON: LET'S GET INTO IT.

THIS IS BRICK BY BRICK: SOLUTIONS FOR A THRIVING COMMUNITY.

HELLO AND WELCOME ONCE AGAIN TO BRICK BY BRICK, WHERE WE'RE HIGHLIGHTING SOLUTIONS FOR A THRIVING COMMUNITY IN SOUTHWEST OHIO.

I'M YOUR HOST, ANNE THOMPSON.

GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF KEEPING PEOPLE HOUSED.

WITHOUT IT, MILLIONS OF FAMILIES COULDN'T AFFORD THEIR RENT.

SINCE WE'RE SOLUTIONS BASED, BRICK BY BRICK WONDERED HOW WELL PUBLIC HOUSING IS WORKING AND MORE SPECIFICALLY, THE SOLUTION OF HOUSING CHOICE VOUCHERS THAT OUR PUBLIC HOUSING AUTHORITIES ARE TASKED WITH OVERSEEING.

FIRST, THOUGH A BIT OF CONTEXT AROUND THE ROLE HOUSING AUTHORITIES PLAY IN OUR REGION.

THESE LOCAL PUBLIC HOUSING ENTITIES OFFER DIFFERENT TYPES OF ASSISTANCE, ALL POSSIBLE BASED ON FEDERAL FUNDING FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT, OR HUD, AS IT'S KNOWN.

PUBLIC HOUSING AUTHORITIES OVERSEE TWO HOUSING PROGRAMS: PROJECT BASED RENTAL ASSISTANCE, WHERE THE ASSISTANCE IS USED BY A RESIDENT TO LIVE IN ONE OF THE DEVELOPMENT'S OWNED AND MANAGED BY THE LOCAL AUTHORITY.

IN CINCINNATI, CINCINNATI METROPOLITAN HOUSING AUTHORITY, OR CMHA, OWNS OVER 5000 UNITS, AND IN DAYTON, GREATER DAYTON PREMIER MANAGEMENT, OR GDPM, HAS NEARLY 3000.

THEY ALSO USE FEDERAL FUNDS TO RENOVATE AND MAINTAIN THIS HOUSING.

THERE'S A LOT OF THAT WORK UNDERWAY OR RAMPING UP IN OUR REGION RIGHT NOW TO PRESERVE AND EVEN IMPROVE THESE DEVELOPMENTS.

LOCAL HOUSING AUTHORITIES ALSO HAVE FUNDS TO PARTNER WITH PRIVATE DEVELOPMENT AND NONPROFIT GROUPS TO CREATE MORE HOUSING THAT MAINTAINS RESTRICTED INCOME REQUIREMENTS FOR LOW TO MODERATE INCOME NEIGHBORS, ADDING MORE OPTIONS.

ALONG WITH SUPPORTING RESIDENTS IN THEIR OWN DEVELOPMENTS OR THOSE CREATED THROUGH PUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS, HOUSING AUTHORITIES ALSO DISTRIBUTE AND MANAGE HOUSING CHOICE VOUCHERS.

THE VOUCHERS ARE PORTABLE SUBSIDIES ALLOWING TENANTS TO RENT IN THE PRIVATE MARKET.

THAT COULD BE A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, A TOWNHOUSE, OR AN APARTMENT.

TO BE ELIGIBLE, RENTERS MUST BE AT 50% OR BELOW AREA MEDIAN INCOME, BUT MOST ARE AT JUST 30%, MAKING $30,000 OR LESS.

HERE'S HOW THE VOUCHER WORKS.

THE TENANT PAYS UP TO 30% OF THEIR INCOME, AND THEN THE GOVERNMENT COVERS THE REST.

WITHOUT THIS GOVERNMENT SUBSIDY, MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY COULDN'T AFFORD THEIR OWN HOUSING.

NATIONWIDE, 2.2 MILLION HOUSEHOLDS HAVE A VOUCHER, BUT THE NEED APPEARS MUCH HIGHER.

AT LEAST 10 MILLION ARE ELIGIBLE AND CAN'T GET THEM.

UNLIKE ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS LIKE FOOD STAMPS OR MEDICAID, WHICH AUTOMATICALLY GROW WITH NEED, CONGRESS EACH YEAR SETS THE AMOUNT OF RENTAL AID AND RUNS IT THROUGH HUD, AGAIN, THE DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT.

THIS YEAR, FUNDING IS SET FOR $30 BILLION.

THAT'S NOT ENOUGH TO COVER EVERYONE, BECAUSE EACH VOUCHER COSTS AN ESTIMATED $11,000 A YEAR, IT WOULD TAKE AN ESTIMATED 100 BILLION TO FILL THE NEED.

THAT MEANS THERE ARE FAMILIES WHO CAN'T GET HELP LOCALLY.

THE CINCINNATI METROPOLITAN HOUSING AUTHORITY HAS 3000 FAMILIES STILL ON THE WAITING LIST FOR VOUCHERS FROM 2022.

MEANWHILE, GREATER DAYTON PREMIER MANAGEMENT SAYS IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY THE WAIT LIST IS 4000 AND THE NEED IS STILL GROWING.

WHILE RENT CONTINUES TO GO UP, WAGES ARE NOT EQUALLY INCREASING FOR EVERYONE.

THE HARVARD JOINT CENTER FOR HOUSING STUDIES DID AN ANALYSIS FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES AND FOUND THAT OVER THE LAST NEARLY 25 YEARS, ELIGIBLE HOUSEHOLDS FOR VOUCHERS GREW BY ABOUT 25%, WHILE THE ASSISTANCE HAS DECLINED TO ITS LOWEST LEVEL IN THAT SAME SPAN.

FINDING HOUSING IN THE PRIVATE MARKET USING A GOVERNMENT HOUSING VOUCHER CAN BE DIFFICULT, BUT BRICK BY BRICK'S EMIKO MOORE TALKED TO A DAYTON RESIDENT WHO DID IT AND THEN KEPT BETTERING HERSELF AND HER FAMILY.

WE WELCOME HER TO THE STUDIO.

HI, EMIKO.

EMIKO MOORE: HI, ANNE.

YES, YOU'RE RIGHT.

FOR MANY, RECEIVING A HOUSING VOUCHER CAN FEEL LIKE WINNING THE LOTTERY, ESPECIALLY SINCE THERE'S LONG WAIT LISTS JUST TO APPLY.

BUT AS YOU'LL SEE, THAT'S JUST THE FIRST STEP.

THE SECOND STEP, WHICH IS EQUALLY CHALLENGING, IS FINDING A PLACE THAT WILL ACCEPT VOUCHERS WHILE COMPETING WITH OTHER RENTERS IN A MARKET SEVERELY SHORT OF HOUSING.

KANEIKA LOVETT IS A PROUD MOTHER OF TWO SUCCESSFUL ADULTS, BUT HER JOURNEY WAS NOT SO EASY.

LOVETT, WHO WORKS AS A SERVER AND BARTENDER AT OLIVE GARDEN, RELIED ON HOUSING VOUCHERS TO PROVIDE A STABLE ENVIRONMENT FOR HER CHILDREN WHEN SHE WAS PREGNANT AT 22 AND WORKING VARIOUS JOBS.

KANEIKA LOVETT: MY MOM TOLD ME, AND I NEVER -- I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT BACK THEN, BUT CREATE A LIFE FOR YOURSELF BEFORE YOU MAKE ANOTHER ONE.

THAT IS WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO INSTILL IN MY CHILDREN, BECAUSE I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT AT THE TIME.

EMIKO MOORE: GDPM, GREATER DAYTON PREMIER MANAGEMENT, THE LOCAL HOUSING AUTHORITY, PROVIDES RESOURCES FOR HOUSING TO MORE THAN 4000 LOW INCOME FAMILIES IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY.

BUT THE DEMAND IS EVEN GREATER.

WHEN THE WAITLIST OPENED THIS FEBRUARY FOR SECTION 8 VOUCHERS, ANOTHER 4000 PEOPLE APPLIED.

CEO JENNIFER HEAPY SAYS: JENNIFER HEAPY: SOME PEOPLE CAN WAIT THREE, FOUR, FIVE YEARS BEFORE THEY GET CALLED THAT A VOUCHER IS AVAILABLE TO THEM.

EMIKO MOORE: AFTER A YEAR AND A HALF WAIT, LOVETT FOUND A PLACE IN WEST DAYTON, ONE OF THE FEW AREAS THAT ACCEPTED VOUCHERS.

BUT OVER TIME, AS HER CHILDREN WERE GROWING UP, CONCERNS ABOUT SAFETY, EDUCATION, AND ACCESS TO FOOD BEGAN TO WEIGH HEAVILY.

KANEIKA LOVETT: IF EVERYBODY YOU SEE IS STRUGGLING TO EAT, STRUGGLING TO LIVE, JUST STRUGGLING TO MAKE IT, THEN YOU DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S PEOPLE OUT HERE HAPPY, THERE'S PEOPLE OUT HERE EATING 2 OR 3 TIMES A DAY, THERE'S KIDS THAT'S PLAYING IN THE PARK.

EMIKO MOORE: ACCORDING TO HEAPY, HEALTHY NEIGHBORHOODS ARE BUILDING BLOCKS FOR GENERATIONAL CHANGE.

JENNIFER HEAPY: RESEARCH HAS SHOWN THAT IF YOU HAVE A FAMILY, PARTICULARLY WITH YOUNG CHILDREN, AND BEFORE THE AGE OF 12, IF THEY ARE MOVED TO AN AREA OF OPPORTUNITY AND THAT COULD BE BETTER SCHOOLS, AGAIN, BETTER ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE, TRANSPORTATION, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS THAT THE CUMULATIVE IMPACT IS FAR OUTWEIGHS THE COST OF THE SUBSIDY.

EMIKO MOORE: BUT FINDING LANDLORDS IN THE PRIVATE MARKET TO ACCEPT VOUCHERS IN AN AREA OF OPPORTUNITY NEIGHBORHOOD IS CHALLENGING.

KANEIKA LOVETT: THEY LOOK DOWN ON THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE VOUCHERS BECAUSE THEY THINK WE'RE GETTING A FREE RIDE OR, UM, WE DON'T TRY HARD.

WE PAY RENT JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.

IT IS JUST A LITTLE SECURITY THAT WE DO HAVE IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE SOMEWHERE TO LIVE.

EMIKO MOORE: WHILE NOT ALL LANDLORDS THINK THIS WAY, MANY JUST DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT.

JOAN ULLOTH OWNS FOUR RENTALS IN KETTERING AND WAS UNAWARE OF THE VOUCHER PROGRAM.

SHE THOUGHT SECTION 8 WAS A COMPLICATED GOVERNMENT PROGRAM.

JOAN ULLOTH: I'VE BEEN IN THIS BUSINESS FOR CLOSE TO 20 YEARS NOW.

I'VE HAD PEOPLE SAY, "DO YOU TAKE SECTION 8?"

AND I JUST SAID NO, AND I DIDN'T LOOK INTO IT AT ALL BECAUSE IT SEEMED LIKE IT WAS TOO BIG.

EMIKO MOORE: WHEN A TENANT BROUGHT IT TO HER ATTENTION, ULLOTH DECIDED TO TAKE A CLOSER LOOK.

AFTER REVIEWING IT, SHE FOUND THE PAPERWORK MANAGEABLE AND AGREED TO PARTICIPATE.

JOAN ULLOTH: IT'S DETAILED, BUT IT IS NO MORE COMPLICATED THAN APPLYING FOR A MORTGAGE.

EMIKO MOORE: AND DURING COVID, WHEN SOME OF HER TENANTS LOST THEIR JOBS, ULLOTH WENT WITHOUT RENTAL INCOME FOR A YEAR.

VOUCHERS FOR HER ENSURE STEADY PAYMENTS.

JOAN ULLOTH: I'VE GOT A GUARANTEE THAT YOU WILL GET PAID EVERY MONTH.

THAT WAS A SAFETY NET FOR ME.

EMIKO MOORE: ONLY 43% OF THOSE WHO RECEIVE VOUCHERS IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY ARE ABLE TO SECURE A PLACE TO RENT.

GDPM RECOGNIZES LANDLORDS ARE VITAL PARTNERS AND RECENTLY HIRED A LANDLORD LIAISON TO STREAMLINE COMMUNICATION.

JENNIFER HEAPY: WE FULLY ACKNOWLEDGE WE NEED LANDLORDS OR THIS WILL NOT WORK, SO WE TRY AND DO AS MUCH AS WE CAN FOR THE LANDLORDS, BE AS EFFICIENT AS WE CAN BE DURING THE PROCESS.

EMIKO MOORE: MANY LANDLORDS ARE ADVOCATING FOR IMPROVEMENTS IN THIS PUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP, INCLUDING GREATER FLEXIBILITY IN INSPECTIONS AND LESS DELAYS.

JOAN ULLOTH: I DID THINK THAT THE EXPECTATION THAT I NEEDED A SMOKE DETECTOR IN EVERY ROOM WAS A BIT RIDICULOUS, THAT, OKAY, WE CAN DEAL WITH THAT.

THOSE ARE NOT DEAL BREAKERS.

EMIKO MOORE: TO HELP TENANTS BUILD TOWARDS INDEPENDENCE AND SELF-RELIANCE, GDPM ALSO OFFERS A HOME OWNERSHIP PROGRAM.

JENNIFER HEAPY: WE WORK WITH THE FAMILIES AND IF THEY COMPLETE IT, WE HAVE SOME PARTNER BANKS AND THEY KNOW HOW TO USE THE VOUCHER IN THE MORTGAGE CALCULATION, AND THEY CAN USE THAT TO PURCHASE A HOME.

EMIKO MOORE: THE PROGRAM HELPS TENANTS NAVIGATE A PATHWAY TO HOME OWNERSHIP.

KANEIKA LOVETT: IT MADE ME FOCUS MORE ON MY GOALS.

WHAT DO YOU WANT?

I WANT A HOUSE.

YOU GOT TO GET OUT.

YOU GOT TO GET IT.

EMIKO MOORE: LOVETT IS NOW A PROUD NEW HOMEOWNER, AND HER YORKSHIRE TERRIER, COCO, IS HAPPY TO PLAY IN THE BACKYARD.

KANEIKA LOVETT: I AM A HOMEOWNER.

I'M A HOMEOWNER.

I'M NOT JUST A VOUCHER HOLDER.

I OWN THIS HOME.

I WORKED HARD FOR THIS.

AND I'M GOING TO CONTINUE TO WORK HARD FOR IT.

ANNE THOMPSON: KANEIKA'S STORY IS INTERESTING.

EMIKO, I'M WONDERING WHO IS ELIGIBLE FOR THE HOME OWNERSHIP PROGRAM?

EMIKO MOORE: WELL, JUST LIKE THE HOUSING CHOICE VOUCHER PROGRAM, THIS IS VOLUNTARY, BUT YOU DO NEED TO BE A FIRST TIME HOME BUYER.

ONCE THEY JOIN, GDPM WILL REFER THEM TO THE HOME OWNERSHIP CENTER, WHERE THEY LEARN TO IMPROVE THEIR CREDIT SCORES AND SET GOALS TO GET READY FOR HOME OWNERSHIP.

THEY ARE ALSO ENROLLED IN A FAMILY SELF-SUFFICIENCY PROGRAM, WHICH DEPOSITS MONEY IN AN ESCROW ACCOUNT OR A THIRD PARTY ACCOUNT FOR A SPECIFIC GOAL, AND IN THIS CASE, IT'S TYPICALLY FOR MORTGAGES.

THOMPSON: GREAT OPPORTUNITIES FOR VOUCHER HOLDERS.

EMIKO MOORE: YES, IT IS.

THOMPSON: MULTIMEDIA JOURNALIST BRICK BY BRICK'S EMIKO MOORE.

THANKS FOR THAT.

EMIKO MOORE: THANKS, ANNE.

THOMPSON: YOU JUST HEARD GREATER DAYTON PREMIER MANAGEMENT CEO JENNIFER HEAPY, WHO SAYS BECAUSE OF A LACK OF FUNDING, HER AGENCY HAS HAD TO STOP HANDING OUT VOUCHERS TEMPORARILY BUT GENERALLY, ONLY 43% OF FAMILIES WHO GET ONE END UP BEING ABLE TO USE IT.

ONE PROBLEM IS DISCRIMINATION.

IN THE 40 PLUS YEARS THAT VOUCHERS HAVE BEEN AROUND LOCAL ZONING BOARDS AND PROPERTY OWNERS SOMETIMES MAKE IT DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE WITH VOUCHERS TO LIVE IN CERTAIN AREAS.

MIAMI VALLEY FAIR HOUSING REPRESENTATIVES REGULARLY POSE AS RENTERS, AND WHEN THEY EXPERIENCE DISCRIMINATION, THEY TURN OVER CASES TO THE HUMAN RELATIONS COUNCIL AND TO THE OHIO CIVIL RIGHTS COMMISSION.

GDPM'S JENNIFER HEAPY DEFENDS HOUSING CHOICE VOUCHER RENTERS.

JENNIFER HEAPY: OVER 80% OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE SERVE ARE EITHER WORKING OR DISABLED, BUT THEY'VE GOT SOME TYPE OF EARNED INCOME.

THESE ARE NOT INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE JUST SITTING BACK AND NOT WORKING.

AND THERE'S ALSO THIS ELEMENT THAT SECTION 8 BRINGS CRIME, RIGHT?

THAT THAT'S KIND OF ONE OF THE MYTHS THAT ARE OUT THERE.

AS OF YET, AND I'M KIND OF A HOUSING NERD, I HAVE SEEN NO RESEARCH THAT PROVES THAT SECTION 8 FAMILIES BRING ANY ADDITIONAL CRIME INTO AN AREA.

ANNE THOMPSON: THE CITY OF DAYTON ALSO PROHIBITS SOURCE OF INCOME DISCRIMINATION, MEANING LANDLORDS CANNOT REFUSE CHOICE HOUSING VOUCHERS AS A MEANS TO PAY RENT.

HOWEVER, MANY SURROUNDING MONTGOMERY COUNTY COMMUNITIES DON'T HAVE AN ORDINANCE LIKE THAT.

ANOTHER CHALLENGE HEAPY FACES IS RISING RENT.

A RECENT REPORT LISTS DAYTON AS THE FOURTH HIGHEST CITY NATIONALLY FOR RENT INCREASES OF A ONE BEDROOM APARTMENT.

SINCE 2019 IT'S GONE UP 44%.

MORE HOUSING CHOICES COULD HELP LOWER PRICES.

HEAPY SAYS SHE TRIES TO BRING ON BOARD AT LEAST 50 TO 60 NEW LANDLORDS A YEAR TO OFFER THEIR HOUSING TO CHOICE VOUCHER TENANTS.

AND THANKS TO THE ADDITION OF A LANDLORD LIAISON, THEY'VE ACTUALLY BEEN ABLE TO RECRUIT 90 NEW PROVIDERS RECENTLY.

SOUTH OF THERE, THE CINCINNATI METROPOLITAN HOUSING AUTHORITY IS ALSO ON THE LOOKOUT FOR MORE HOUSING PROVIDERS.

JEFF CAMPBELL AND HIS PARTNER CAROLINE CARTIER ACCEPT HOUSING CHOICE VOUCHERS.

CAMPBELL GREW UP IN PUBLIC HOUSING AND LIKE YOU HEARD IN EMIKO'S STORY, HE KNOWS THERE'S A STIGMA THAT COMES WITH IT.

JEFFERY CAMPBELL: OH, YOU'RE LAZY.

YOU'RE THIS, YOU'RE THAT.

AND I SAW THESE PEOPLE AS PEOPLE.

I SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT?

IF I'M GOING TO DO THIS, IF I'M GOING TO DO REAL ESTATE, I'M GOING TO ALSO DO IT THE RIGHT WAY AND NOT JUST TRY TO MAKE A QUICK BUCK.

ANNE THOMPSON: BUT THERE HAVE BEEN SOME HICCUPS AS CAMPBELL RENTS OUT HIS SINGLE FAMILY HOMES.

SO YOUR ORGANIZATION, THE REAL ESTATE INVESTORS ASSOCIATION OF GREATER CINCINNATI, SENT US A CHART, AND IT SHOWED ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT HOUSING PROVIDERS HAVE TO FACE, AND THAT IS HAVING YOUR PROPERTY VACANT FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS, SHOWING WHAT CAN HAPPEN AND WHAT YOU CAN EXPECT.

JEFFERY CAMPBELL: THAT CHART IS PRETTY ACCURATE TO THE PROCESS.

I MEAN, LIKE I SAID, YOU PUT YOUR MARK -- YOU PUT YOUR UNIT UP ON THE MARKET TO BE RENTED, LET'S SAY 1500 BUCKS.

SECTION 8 WILL COVER $1,000 OF THAT.

THERE'S ALMOST LIKE A TWO WEEK LAG FOR THE INSPECTION IN SOME WAYS.

AND THEN IN ORDER -- AFTER THE INSPECTION, THE TENANT HAS TO QUALIFY ON PAPER BY APPLYING FOR THE UNIT, BACKGROUND CHECK, CREDIT CHECK, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

AND FROM MY EXPERIENCE, LIKE I SAID, I LOOK PAST THOSE THINGS, BUT NOT EVERY PERSON THAT MAY BE RENTING MAY NOT LOOK PAST THOSE THINGS.

SO SOMETIMES, SOMETIMES THE PROCESS MAY BE DIFFERENT FROM PERSON TO PERSON, BUT IT'S STILL A VERY DAUNTING PROCESS.

ANNE THOMPSON: TO HELP MOVE THE PROCESS ALONG, SOMETIMES HE EVEN SHOWS UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY AT THE HOUSING AUTHORITY ON BEHALF OF HIS TENANT TO WAIT FOR HOURS AS THE GOVERNMENT PAPERWORK GETS APPROVED.

CAMPBELL SAYS THE PROCESS WOULD BE BETTER IF IT OPERATED AS A CASH CARD, LIKE SNAP OR FOOD STAMP BENEFITS, SO TENANTS CAN GET THE MONEY THEY NEED TO SHOP FOR A PLACE TO LIVE.

HE ALSO WOULD LIKE THE INSPECTION PROCESS STREAMLINED.

HE SAYS THERE ARE INCONSISTENCIES.

MEANWHILE, CINCINNATI METROPOLITAN HOUSING AUTHORITY CEO GREG JOHNSON HAS A LOT ON HIS PLATE.

WITH RISING RENTS, MORE PEOPLE LOOKING FOR HOUSING AND TENANTS MAKING LESS, HE NOW FACES A DEFICIT.

AND BECAUSE OF IT, CMHA IS NOT CURRENTLY ISSUING ANY NEW VOUCHERS.

GREG JOHNSON: SO, THERE'S A LOT OF INDIRECT FACTORS THAT GO TO THAT.

BUT YES, RIGHT NOW WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT AND AS WE'RE LOOKING AT AND DOING PROJECTIONS SOMEWHERE, WHAT WE'RE PROJECTING IS THAT WE MAY HAVE A SHORTFALL IN FUNDING BASED ON WHAT THE PUC COST IS AND WHAT THE PROGRAM IS RUNNING OF MAYBE ABOUT 200,000, A LITTLE OVER $200,000 AT THE END OF THE CALENDAR YEAR.

ANNE THOMPSON: JOHNSON SAYS DURING THIS VOUCHER FREEZE, HIS AGENCY IS WORKING WITH FAMILIES WHO ARE LOOKING FOR HOUSING TO HOLD DOWN COSTS.

MUCH OF CINCINNATI'S GOVERNMENT MANAGED PUBLIC HOUSING IS CONCENTRATED IN THE WEST END, WHERE NEARLY HALF THE POPULATION LIVES IN POVERTY AND LIFE EXPECTANCY IS JUST 71 YEARS OLD, COMPARED TO MOUNT ADAMS, WHERE IT'S 88 YEARS OLD.

A GROUP OF PROPERTY OWNERS AND COMMUNITY COUNCIL LEADERS IN THE WEST END HAVE SUBMITTED A COMPLAINT TO THE DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT.

THE ENQUIRER REPORTS THE GROUP ALLEGES CINCINNATI IS VIOLATING BOTH THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT AND THE FAIR HOUSING ACT BY STEERING LOW INCOME HOUSING TAX CREDITS AND FEDERAL HOUSING FUNDS INTO THE WEST END AND OTHER POOR BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS.

AND IT'S HURTING THEIR COMMUNITIES.

THE GROUP WANTS THE CITY TO STOP PUTTING SUBSIDIZED HOUSING IN THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS.

THE CITY SHARED WITH US THEY HAVE NO COMMENT ON THE CURRENT COMPLAINT.

AND ANOTHER OUTLET, WCPO REPORTED OVER-THE-RHINE COMMUNITY HOUSING, WHO HAS HELPED DEVELOP AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, SAID THE COMPLAINT WAS OFF BASE.

HUD TOLD BRICK BY BRICK, IT ABSOLUTELY BELIEVES IN FAIR HOUSING AND AN INDIVIDUAL SHOULD BE ABLE TO MOVE WHERE THEY WANT TO.

LIKE LANDLORD JEFF CAMPBELL, JOHNSON ALSO GREW UP IN PUBLIC HOUSING AND WANTS VOUCHER HOLDERS TO HAVE CHOICES.

GREG JOHNSON: AND WHAT WE HAVE TO REMEMBER IS THAT JUST LIKE YOU AND I, PEOPLE MAKE A CHOICE ON WHERE THEY WOULD LIKE TO LIVE.

AND THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF THE VOUCHER.

SO, I WOULD SAY, IS THE CITY OF CINCINNATI DIRECTING PEOPLE?

NO, PEOPLE ARE MAKING A CHOICE ON WHERE THEY FEEL COMFORTABLE, WHERE THEIR FAMILY IS, WHERE THEIR ROOTS ARE, AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS AND WHERE THEY WOULD LIKE TO LIVE WITH THE VOUCHER.

ANNE THOMPSON: IN TERMS OF OTHER COMPLAINTS THEY'VE HEARD FROM TENANTS AND HOUSING PROVIDERS, JOHNSON SAYS TENANTS CAN NOW SUBMIT INFORMATION THROUGH AN ELECTRONIC OR ONLINE PORTAL SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO COME TO THE MAIN CMHA OFFICE, WHICH MIGHT BE A HARDSHIP IN SOME CASES.

HE ADDS THAT LANDLORDS HAVE BEEN ABLE TO USE AN ELECTRONIC PORTAL LIKE THIS FOR A FEW YEARS NOW.

HE ALSO ACKNOWLEDGES THERE COULD BE A WAY TO BETTER STREAMLINE THE APPROVAL PROCESS WHILE STILL DOING PROPER DILIGENCE.

COMING UP ON BRICK BY BRICK HOW THE AGENCY BEHIND HOUSING CHOICE VOUCHERS RESPONDS TO LOCAL CRITICISMS AND HOW THEY PLAN TO REFINE THINGS MOVING FORWARD.

PLUS, A HARVARD ECONOMIST SAYS, IT'S TRUE, MOVING FAMILIES OUT OF POVERTY TO HIGHER OPPORTUNITY NEIGHBORHOODS HELPS THEIR CHILDREN SUCCEED.

HOW RESEARCH BACKS UP THE NEED FOR MORE MIXED INCOME INTEGRATION IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS.

WELCOME BACK TO BRICK BY BRICK.

THE FURMAN CENTER FOR REAL ESTATE AND URBAN POLICY AT NEW YORK UNIVERSITY STUDIED 1300 PUBLIC HOUSING AUTHORITIES IN 2022.

IT FOUND 90,000 HOUSEHOLDS THAT GOT VOUCHERS WERE UNABLE TO USE THEM.

THAT'S ABOUT HALF.

THEY COULDN'T FIND HOUSING IN THE TIME THEY WERE GIVEN, RANGING FROM 2 TO 6 MONTHS.

FURMAN'S ANALYSIS FINDS IF RENTERS ONLY HAVE TWO MONTHS, LESS THAN A THIRD ARE SUCCESSFUL.

AND USA TODAY REPORTS HUD DOESN'T REQUIRE HOUSING AUTHORITIES TO TRACK OR IMPROVE HIGH FAILURE RATES, AND INSTEAD TREATS THEM LIKE AIRLINES OVERSELLING SEATS.

IN 2022, THE LOCAL AUTHORITIES LIKELY ISSUED ABOUT TWO VOUCHERS FOR EVERY SLOT AVAILABLE.

THERE HAVE BEEN CALLS TO REFORM THE HOUSING CHOICE VOUCHER PROGRAM SINCE 2002.

HUD HAS COMMISSIONED FOUR STUDIES TO ASSESS THE PERFORMANCE OF THE HOUSING CHOICE VOUCHER PROGRAM.

THE MOST RECENT WAS IN 2019 WHEN THE VOUCHER SUCCESS RATE WAS 61%, MEANING ONLY 61% OF THE FAMILIES WHO GOT VOUCHERS WERE ABLE TO USE THEM.

BRICK BY BRICK INTERVIEWED HUD PRINCIPAL DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC AND INDIAN HOUSING, RICH MONOCCHIO.

MONOCCHIO: THAT'S A CONCERNING NUMBER FOR ME PERSONALLY.

I -- ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS ON MY AGENDA IS TO MAKE IT SO THAT EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO RECEIVES A VOUCHER, BECAUSE LET'S REMEMBER, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT OFTENTIMES YOU WAIT THREE, FOUR, FIVE, SIX, SEVEN YEARS FOR.

AND IT'S PARAMOUNT THAT HUD AND THE HOUSING AUTHORITIES WHO RUN THESE PROGRAMS MAKE SURE THAT THOSE HOUSEHOLDS GET A UNIT.

ANNE THOMPSON: MONOCCHIO USED TO RUN CHICAGO'S COOK COUNTY PUBLIC HOUSING AUTHORITY.

RIGHT NOW, THE LAW SAYS VOUCHER HOLDERS HAVE AT LEAST 60 DAYS TO FIND A PLACE.

MONOCCHIO SAYS THAT'S BEING CHANGED, AND EARLY NEXT YEAR THEY WILL HAVE DOUBLE THAT TIME 120 DAYS.

SOMETHING ELSE HE SAYS WILL HELP, GETTING THE VOUCHER VALUE AS CLOSE TO THE MEDIAN RENT AS POSSIBLE.

44% OF VOUCHERS ARE NOW SET BY ZIP CODE CALLED SMALL AREA FAIR MARKET RENT.

CINCINNATI AND DAYTON DON'T HAVE IT THIS YEAR, BUT WILL HAVE IT NEXT YEAR.

THAT WOULD HELP THE VOUCHER BE MORE COMPETITIVE WITH MARKET PRICES, POSSIBLY MAKING IT MORE ATTRACTIVE TO AREA HOUSING PROVIDERS.

BRICK BY BRICK ASKED MONOCCHIO ABOUT DELAYS IN INSPECTIONS THAT CAUSED LANDLORDS TO LOSE MONEY.

HE SAYS THAT'S UNACCEPTABLE AND CITES HIS OWN COOK COUNTY, WHERE YOU COULD GET AN INSPECTION IN THREE HOURS.

HE SAYS HOUSING AUTHORITIES JUST NEED TO FOCUS ON PLUMBING, ELECTRICITY AND OTHER SAFETY MEASURES, NOT GRAFFITI AND AN UNEVEN SIDEWALK.

RICH MONOCCHIO: WE'RE LOOKING FOR HAVING SAFE, DECENT HOUSING, NOT PERFECT HOUSING.

THAT'S AN IMPORTANT POINT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, NOT EVERY APARTMENT IS PERFECT.

MOST PLACES DO HAVE A FEW THINGS WRONG.

BUT AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T RISE TO THAT LEVEL OF LIFE, HEALTH AND SAFETY, WE'RE GOING TO APPROVE IT.

THOMPSON: ONE PUBLIC HOUSING AUTHORITY THAT SOME POINT TO AS A MODEL OF SUCCESS, BOSTON.

88% OF FAMILIES ARE ABLE TO USE THEIR VOUCHERS, DESPITE ONE OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE AND COMPETITIVE RENTAL MARKETS IN THE COUNTRY, ACCORDING TO USA TODAY.

BOSTON DOESN'T JUST TURN PEOPLE LOOSE WITH A VOUCHER, IT CONNECTS THEM TO SOMEBODY WHO HELPS THEM FIND A HOME.

PARTNERING WITH SCHOOLS, HOMELESS SHELTERS AND OTHER SOCIAL SERVICE GROUPS TO HELP FILL THE GAP.

AND BOSTON DOESN'T OPEN A WAITLIST EVERY COUPLE OF YEARS.

IT RELIES ON ORGANIZATIONS TO REFER FAMILIES IN NEED.

HUD'S MONOCCHIO SAYS THIS IS IMPORTANT.

RICH MONOCCHIO: IT IS SO IMPORTANT WHEN THE CITY GOVERNMENT GETS INVOLVED.

YOU KNOW?

I SEE THE MOST SUCCESSFUL HOUSING AUTHORITIES ARE THOSE THAT HAVE GOOD PARTNERSHIPS WITH THE CITY OR THE COUNTY.

SO I SEE, YES, THIS IS HAPPENING IN MANY PLACES, NOT FOR PROFITS OR THE CITY ITSELF WILL PROVIDE SOME OF THE SECURITY DEPOSIT ASSISTANCE, ACTUALLY TAKE POTENTIAL TENANTS OUT ON THE ROAD TO FIND A PLACE.

I DID THAT IN COOK COUNTY, SO IT IS HAPPENING MORE AND MORE.

THOMPSON: CINCINNATI AND DAYTON PUBLIC HOUSING AUTHORITIES DO COLLABORATE AND WORK WITH SOCIAL SERVICE AND CITY AGENCIES TO HELP REFER CLIENTS OR FIND VOUCHER HOLDERS HOUSING.

BUT PERHAPS BASED ON THE OUTCOMES, NOT TO THE EXTENT OF SOME OTHER ENTITIES.

WHEN IT COMES TO THE LONG TERM IMPACT OF CHOICE IN HOUSING AND WHERE YOU LIVE, THE RESEARCH SHOWS THAT IT'S A GAME CHANGER, ESPECIALLY FOR CHILDREN.

HARVARD ECONOMIST RAJ CHETTY IS STUDYING THE EFFECTS ON CHILDREN NATIONWIDE WHO MOVED FROM POVERTY TO WHAT'S BEING CALLED AREAS OF OPPORTUNITY.

THESE ARE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT HAVE LOWER POVERTY RATES, HIGHER PERFORMING SCHOOLS AND BETTER ACCESS TO THINGS LIKE HEALTH CARE, TRANSIT AND GROCERIES.

RAJ CHETTY: MANY PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED THAT THERE ARE LARGE GROUPS OF THE POPULATION THAT DON'T HAVE A CHANCE TO SUCCEED.

I'M ENGAGED IN A SERIES OF PROJECTS THAT WILL EXPLORE WHAT CONDITIONS LEAD TO GREATER EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY.

ANNE THOMPSON: MORE THAN A DECADE AGO, HE EXPLAINED TO THE MACARTHUR FOUNDATION, WHO NAMED HIM A FELLOW, THAT MOVING OUT OF POVERTY IMPROVES COLLEGE ATTENDANCE RATES AND EARNINGS FOR THOSE WHO MOVED WHEN THEY WERE AGED 13 OR YOUNGER.

HE FOUND THESE CHILDREN ALSO LIVE IN BETTER NEIGHBORHOODS THEMSELVES AS ADULTS AND ARE LESS LIKELY TO BECOME SINGLE PARENTS.

AND ACCORDING TO HIS RESEARCH, THEY HAD AN INCOME OF AT LEAST $3,000 HIGHER WHEN THEY WERE IN THEIR 20S.

CHETTY SAYS THERE IS MORE RESEARCH TO DO.

RAJ CHETTY: WHEN YOU HAVE THAT VIEW OF THE WORLD, YOU MIGHT THEN THINK ABOUT HOW YOU CREATE MORE INTEGRATION, HOW YOU CONNECT PEOPLE FROM DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS THROUGH RESIDENTIAL DESEGREGATION, THROUGH PROGRAMS THAT MIGHT BRING DIFFERENT TYPES OF PEOPLE INTO CONTACT WITH EACH OTHER.

THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT THINGS TO EXPLORE, AND I THINK THAT'S AN INTERESTING AREA FOR FURTHER POLICY INTERVENTION, FOR FURTHER WORK.

ANNE THOMPSON: CHETTY SAYS AGE IS CRITICAL.

HE FOUND MOVING TO AREAS OF OPPORTUNITY AS A TEENAGER DIDN'T HAVE ANY SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON EARNINGS OR OTHER OUTCOMES, SO MAKING THE MOVE WHEN THEY ARE YOUNG IS KEY.

REMEMBER, IF YOU WANT TO LEARN MORE ABOUT HOUSING CHOICE VOUCHERS AND HOW THEY ARE BEING USED, THERE ARE PLENTY OF RESOURCES, INCLUDING WEB ARTICLES, VIDEO AND AUDIO STORIES, AND ONLINE EXTRAS.

GO TO CETCONNECT.ORG AND THINKTV.ORG.

AND WHILE YOU'RE THERE, CLICK ON ONE OF THE BIG GREEN BUTTONS TO GIVE MORE FEEDBACK OR ANSWER OUR CURRENT AUDIENCE QUESTIONS.

WE'D REALLY LIKE TO HEAR FROM YOU.

WE ALWAYS WANT TO TAKE TIME AT THE END OF OUR EPISODE TO REFLECT ON THE SOLUTION THAT WE'RE COVERING.

SOME HAVE SAID THIS VOUCHER PROGRAM IS THE BEST RESPONSE AMERICA HAS EVER HAD TO THE PLIGHT OF LOW AND MODERATE INCOME FAMILIES BEING ABLE TO AFFORD HOUSING, AND IT'S HARD TO DISPUTE ITS BASIC IMPACT OVER THE PAST 50 PLUS YEARS.

HOWEVER, AS A SOLUTION TO THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING CRISIS, THERE ARE SOME COMPONENTS THAT REQUIRE REGULAR REFINEMENT TO STRENGTHEN THIS SOLUTION.

AS YOU'VE HEARD, THERE AREN'T ENOUGH VOUCHERS TO GO AROUND.

ONLY 1 IN 4 FAMILIES WHO NEED ONE CAN GET ONE.

AND MAKING IT EVEN MORE DIFFICULT, THE COST OF RENT CONTINUES TO INCREASE.

WITH NO REGULAR FUNDING INCREASES FROM CONGRESS, IMPROVEMENTS TO THE SYSTEM REMAIN A CHALLENGE AND MUST BE FOCUSED ON HOW TO GET MORE WITH THE RESOURCES THESE ENTITIES ARE GIVEN.

IT IS ENCOURAGING THAT HUD IS EXTENDING THE TIME HOUSEHOLDS HAVE TO USE THEIR VOUCHER FROM 60 DAYS TO A MINIMUM OF 120 DAYS.

THAT INCREASES THE CHANCES THEY'LL BE ABLE TO FIND HOUSING.

PERHAPS THAT LONGER WINDOW OF TIME, ONCE IT'S IN EFFECT IN OUR REGION, WOULD ALLOW FOR MORE LOCAL AGENCIES AND NONPROFITS TO COLLABORATE WITH OUR HOUSING AUTHORITIES TO IMPROVE PLACEMENT OF VOUCHER HOLDERS INTO SAFE AND SECURE HOUSING.

WHICH LEADS ME TO MY FINAL TAKEAWAY, THE SUPPLY.

IF THERE AREN'T ENOUGH HOUSING PROVIDERS WORKING WITH THE GOVERNMENT, THEN FINDING VOUCHER HOLDERS A PLACE WILL BE EXTREMELY DIFFICULT.

THIS WHOLE SYSTEM IS CURRENTLY SET UP BASED UPON EXPANDING THAT POOL OVER TIME.

SO MORE LANDLORDS ARE NEEDED, AS WE HEARD VOUCHER USERS AND HOUSING AUTHORITIES SHARE WITH US DURING THIS INVESTIGATION.

BOTH THE CINCINNATI METROPOLITAN HOUSING AUTHORITY AND GREATER DAYTON PREMIER MANAGEMENT ARE PROACTIVELY TRYING TO RECRUIT MORE HOUSING PROVIDERS, BUT LANDLORDS STILL HAVE THEIR ISSUES WITH THE SYSTEM.

ONE COMPLAINT WE'VE HEARD IS FRUSTRATION ABOUT THE TIME IT TAKES FOR AN INSPECTION.

HUD'S RICH MONOCCHIO SAYS THE GOVERNMENT IS TRYING TO WORK ON THAT, AND IN SOME PLACES THE PROCESS CAN BE COMPLETED IN AS LITTLE AS THREE HOURS.

NOW THAT SEEMS LIKE A GOOD GOAL, BUT FROM PROVIDERS WE SPOKE WITH, EVEN GETTING IT DOWN TO WITHIN A DAY OR TWO WOULD BE HELPFUL, RATHER THAN A WEEK OR MORE.

THAT'S BECAUSE THE WHOLE PROCESS CAN LEAVE A LANDLORD WITH A VACANT UNIT FOR UP TO TWO MONTHS CURRENTLY, WITH ONBOARDING, BACKGROUND CHECKS, INSPECTIONS, AND OTHER ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESSES.

THAT UPFRONT LOSS OF RENT CAN BE A DEAL BREAKER FOR LANDLORDS.

SO ANYTHING THESE AGENCIES CAN DO TO MAKE THEM WHOLE FINANCIALLY OR SPEED THINGS UP CAN ONLY HELP IN THE LONG RUN.

AS THE NEW REFINEMENTS OF THE PROGRAM TAKE EFFECT IN 2025, BRICK BY BRICK WILL BE PAYING CLOSE ATTENTION AND BRING YOU UPDATES AS THEY'RE AVAILABLE, HERE, ON THE WEBSITE, OR ON THE PODCAST.

COMING UP ON THE NEXT EPISODE OF BRICK BY BRICK, ZONING REFORMS ARE ENCOURAGING DEVELOPERS AND HOME BUILDERS TO CREATE MORE HOUSING TYPES IN OUR CITIES AND COUNTIES.

BUT ARE THEY BUILDING HOUSING THAT'S GENERALLY AFFORDABLE OR OUT OF REACH TO MOST?

WE'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT THE TREND TOWARD MIDDLE HOUSING AND ASK THE QUESTION, WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO THE STARTER HOME?

THAT'S NEXT MONTH ON BRICK BY BRICK.

UNTIL THEN, FOR DAYTON BASED CORRESPONDENT EMIKO MOORE AND CINCINNATI BASED JOURNALIST HERNZ LAGUERRE, JR., I'M ANNE THOMPSON.

WE'LL BE BACK WITH MORE SOLUTIONS SOON.

TAKE CARE.

CAPTIONS: MAVERICK CAPTIONING CIN OH MAVERICKCAPTIONING.COM