ANNOUNCER: BRICK BY BRICK IS MADE POSSIBLE THANKS TO LEADING SUPPORT FROM: AND MANY MORE.

THANK YOU.

WE COULDN'T DO THIS WORK WITHOUT YOU.

THOMPSON: WE SEE THEM ALL OVER OUR CITIES, LOOK AROUND, UNDERUTILIZED BUILDINGS.

WOOD: IT'S LIKE STACKING FIVE WALMARTS ON TOP OF EACH OTHER, THAT'S HOW BIG IT IS.

THOMPSON: THEY'VE BEEN USED AS OFFICES, SCHOOLS, STORES, FACTORIES, WAREHOUSES OR EVEN BOWLING ALLEYS.

BUT WITH THE HOUSING SHORTAGE IMPACTING SO MANY, THE MOTIVATION NOW IS TO TURN THEM INTO APARTMENTS.

DORSEY: THESE BUILDINGS ARE EVERYWHERE DOWN HERE AND THEY'RE EMPTY, SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A SCIENTIST TO FIGURE OUT THAT THIS IS A GREAT IDEA.

THOMPSON: AND WHILE CONVERTING OLDER BUILDINGS TO DIFFERENT USES IS NOT A NOVEL IDEA, IT SEEMS THAT OUR REGION IS RIPE FOR ADAPTATION DUE TO THE AGE AND TYPE OF MANY OF OUR BUILDINGS.

TAYLOR: SO WE'RE ACTUALLY NUMBER TWO FOR OFFICE CONVERSIONS.

THOMPSON: TODAY ON THE SHOW, WE'RE LOOKING AT ADAPTIVE REUSE.

IT'S NOT EASY, BUT THIS APPROACH IS ADDING TO THE MIX OF NEW HOUSING PRODUCTION, AS WELL AS PRESERVING SOME OF OUR CITY'S OLD GEMS ALONG THE WAY.

BRADLEY: WHEN I MENTIONED THAT IT'S IRREPLACEABLE, I MEAN, IT TRULY IS.

YOU CAN'T BUILD THAT TOWER TODAY AS A NEW CONSTRUCTION PROJECT.

THAT'S JUST FINANCIALLY UPSIDE DOWN.

THOMPSON: LET'S GET INTO IT.

THIS IS BRICK BY BRICK: SOLUTIONS FOR A THRIVING COMMUNITY.

HELLO AND WELCOME TO ANOTHER EDITION OF BRICK BY BRICK, WHERE WE INVESTIGATE SOLUTIONS THAT SOME OF OUR KEY SOCIAL CHALLENGES IN SOUTHWEST OHIO.

I'M YOUR HOST, ANN THOMPSON.

TODAY, WE CONTINUE TO FOCUS ON RESPONSES TO THE HOUSING SHORTAGE IN OUR COMMUNITIES, THIS TIME WITH A LOOK AT ADAPTIVE REUSE, OR CONVERTING BUILDINGS OF ALL TYPES INTO HOUSING.

YOU'VE PROBABLY SEEN SOME OF THIS ACTIVITY TAKING PLACE OVER THE PAST YEAR OR SO, AND IT'S NO SURPRISE.

TO MANY IT'S A NO BRAINER, BUT MARKET FORCES ARE ALSO AT PLAY HERE.

MARIANNE TAYLOR, A SENIOR ASSOCIATE WITH THE INTERNATIONAL REAL ESTATE BROKERAGE FIRM CBRE EXPLAINS.

TAYLOR: A LOT OF THE TIME THIS IS DRIVEN OFF OF THOSE EXISTING BUILDINGS MAYBE NO LONGER BEING FUNCTIONAL OR BEING HEAVILY VACANT, WHERE THERE'S A BETTER AND STRONGER DEMAND FROM A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, OFFICE TO MULTIFAMILY CONVERSION IS VERY POPULAR RIGHT NOW BECAUSE WE WERE SEEING A FLIGHT TO QUALITY IN OFFICE FOR DIFFERENT TENANTS IN OFFICE BUILDINGS WANTING MORE A CLASS PROPERTIES TO MOVE INTO.

TO BE ABLE TO CONVERT THOSE TO A USE WHERE THERE'S A HIGHER DEMAND, SUCH AS MULTIFAMILY, BECAUSE THERE'S SUCH A SHORTAGE OF SUPPLY IN HOUSING, THAT REPURPOSE HAS GIVEN A NEW REVITALIZATION TO THAT OLD SPACE.

THOMPSON: ACCORDING TO CBRE ANALYSIS, CINCINNATI RANKS NUMBER TWO IN THE COUNTRY FOR OFFICE AND HOTEL CONVERSIONS TO HOUSING.

RIGHT NOW, THERE ARE NEARLY A DOZEN PROJECTS UNDERWAY IN GREATER CINCINNATI AND MORE IN DAYTON AS WELL.

TAYLOR: WE SEE THESE DEVELOPERS THAT FOCUS ON MULTIFAMILY GO TO OFFICE BECAUSE IT'S CHEAPER FOR THEM TO CONVERT AN EXISTING SPACE THAN TO BUILD GROUND UP.

AND IF THE STATE OR THE LOCAL CITY AS WELL ARE GIVING DIFFERENT TYPES OF TAX CREDITS TO SUPPORT THOSE PROJECTS, THEN THAT'S HELPING REVITALIZE THE CITY AND MEETING THE SHORTAGE OF SUPPLY OF HOUSING NEED.

THOMPSON: WE'LL GET INTO THE FINANCING OF THIS PROCESS THROUGHOUT THE SHOW AS WE SHARE SEVERAL EXAMPLES.

WHETHER VACANCIES IN OFFICES OR OTHER BUILDINGS ARE BEING SPURRED BY SHIFTS IN REMOTE WORK CULTURE OR CHANGING DEMANDS FROM COMMERCIAL TENANTS, THE FACT REMAINS THAT THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF EMPTY OR UNDERUTILIZED BUILDINGS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, EVEN AS PEOPLE START COMING BACK INTO THE OFFICE.

AND WHILE DEMAND RISES AND LOWERS NATURALLY, REAL ESTATE EXPERTS PREDICT MUCH OF THAT SQUARE FOOTAGE MAY REMAIN VACANT THROUGH THE YEAR 2030 BECAUSE OF AN EXPECTED LONG TERM DECLINE IN DEMAND.

CURRENTLY, THE OFFICE DOWNTOWN VACANCY RATE IN CINCINNATI IS 21.5%.

IN DAYTON, IT'S A LITTLE OVER 23%.

IN CINCINNATI AND THE SURROUNDING SUBURBS THERE ARE MORE THAN A DOZEN OF THESE PROJECTS UNDERWAY OR GOING THROUGH DEVELOPMENT TO START WORK.

AT LEAST SEVEN OF THOSE ARE SET TO BE CONVERTED MULTIFAMILY, AND AT LEAST FOUR OF THEM WILL BECOME HOTELS.

ONE OF THE HIGHEST PROFILE PROJECTS IS CINCINNATI'S CAREW TOWER.

ONCE THE CITY'S TALLEST BUILDING, IT'S CURRENTLY GOING THROUGH A MIXED USE TRANSFORMATION THAT WILL CREATE 375 MARKET RATE APARTMENTS AND MORE THAN 30,000 SQUARE FEET OF COMMERCIAL SPACE NEAR THE STREET.

THE $175 MILLION PROJECT IS BEING HANDLED BY VICTREX LLC OUT OF NEW YORK.

WORK BEGAN IN 2024 ON EXTERIOR WORK BY REHABBING THE MORTAR JOINTS BETWEEN MILLIONS OF BRICKS.

THE BIG CONVERSION WORK IS EXPECTED TO CONTINUE THROUGH 2027.

PART OF THE FINANCING FOR ALL OF THIS INCLUDES TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN FEDERAL, STATE AND LOCAL GRANTS, TAX CREDITS AND SUPPORT.

IT DEMONSTRATES THE NEED FOR PUBLIC/PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS FOR PROJECTS LIKE THIS.

LASSERRE BRADLEY IS THE DIRECTOR OF THE DEVELOPMENT FOR THE MODEL GROUP, WHO HAVE DONE A NUMBER OF ADAPTIVE REUSE PROJECTS IN OUR REGION, MANY OF THEM 3-4 STORY MIXED USE CONVERSIONS.

BUT THERE ARE ALSO JUST FINISHING UP THE TRANSFORMATION OF TWO HISTORIC BUILDINGS SOUTH OF FOUNTAIN SQUARE IN DOWNTOWN CINCY, INCLUDING THE FORMICA BUILDING AND THE CONNECTED MERCANTILE BUILDING.

BRADLEY: WE HAVE A SMALL PORTION OF OFFICE REMAINING.

WE HAVE FIRST FLOOR RETAIL, AND THEN THE BALANCE OF IT IS 172 RESIDENTIAL UNITS.

WE'VE COMPLETED THE FIRST UNITS IN THE BUILDING, AND WE ACTUALLY HAVE RESIDENTS LIVING THERE NOW, OUR EARLY PIONEERS.

WE EXPECT THE BUILDING TO LEASE UP AND STABILIZE BY THE FALL OF 2025.

THOMPSON: ANOTHER MAJOR DEVELOPMENT THAT BRADLEY AND THE MODEL GROUP ARE INVOLVED WITH IS IN DOWNTOWN DAYTON.

THE 21 STORY CENTER CITY BUILDING IS A MASSIVE STRUCTURE THAT WAS ORIGINALLY BUILT AS A 14 STORY PUBLISHING HOUSE AND OFFICES BACK IN 1904.

ADDITIONAL FLOORS WERE ADDED OVER TIME.

BRADLEY: WE'LL HAVE ABOUT CLOSE TO A LITTLE UNDER 20,000 GROSS SQUARE FEET OF COMMERCIAL ON THE FIRST FLOOR.

THAT'S ABOUT THE SIZE OF THE FLOOR PLATE.

AND THEN THE BALANCE OF THE BUILDING WILL BE RESIDENTIAL.

AND WE HAVE ABOUT 200 RESIDENTIAL UNITS.

THOMPSON: WHILE MANY OF THOSE APARTMENTS WILL BE MARKET RATE, 80 OF THEM WILL BE INCOME RESTRICTED AND AFFORDABLE SENIOR HOUSING.

IF THEY CAN FINALIZE THE FINANCING AND APPROVALS, THEY HOPE TO BEGIN WORK ON THE BUILDING IN 2025.

MODEL GROUP, WHO HAD A HAND IN REDEVELOPING THE DAYTON ARCADE NEXT DOOR TO CENTER CITY, SEES IT AS A WAY TO ADD MORE HOUSING AND CONTINUE STABILIZING AND REVITALIZING THIS CENTRAL PART OF DAYTON.

BRADLEY: YOU CAN'T AVOID THE CENTER CITY BUILDING.

IT'S LARGE, IT TAKES UP THE MAJORITY OF A BLOCK, AND YOU WALK OUT THE FRONT DOOR OF THIS SPACE, THE HUB, AND YOU LOOK RIGHT AT IT.

SO WITH IT BEING VACANT AND DISINVESTED FOR AS LONG AS IT HAS, IT'S A PROBLEM THAT CAN'T BE IGNORED.

IT NEEDS TO BE SOLVED IF WE'RE REALLY GOING TO SUCCESSFULLY BUILD AND ACTIVATE THE DISTRICT.

THOMPSON: BY THE WAY, AS PART OF THAT PROJECT, MODEL GROUP ALSO PLANS TO REHAB THE PARKING GARAGE ADJACENT TO CENTER CITY.

LET'S STICK WITH DAYTON NOW, BUT LET'S SHIFT FROM OFFICE TOWERS TO THE CONVERSION OF WAREHOUSES OR FACTORIES.

ONCE A FACTORY AND A WAREHOUSE RETAIL OPERATION, NOW THE DELCO HISTORIC LANDMARK IN THE WATER STREET DISTRICT HAS ADDED DOZENS OF NEW APARTMENTS THANKS TO ITS CONVERSION INTO A MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT.

BRICK BY BRICK'S EMIKO MOORE WAS ABLE TO GET A TOUR RECENTLY WITH THE DEVELOPERS TO SEE HOW THIS LARGE ADAPTIVE REUSE PROJECT TURNED OUT.

TAKE A LOOK.

WOOD: THIS IS OUR ROOFTOP AMENITY, SO, JUST A GREAT PLACE FOR RESIDENTS THAT LIVE HERE IN THIS BUILDING TO BE ABLE TO COME IN AND HANG OUT, ESPECIALLY IN THE EVENING.

VIEWS OF DOWNTOWN, 360 DEGREE VIEW OF DOWNTOWN DAYTON.

SO JUST A -- NO OTHER SPACE REALLY LIKE THIS IN DAYTON.

MOORE: ZACHARY GRAHAM IS THE DEVELOPER OF THE DELCO, A 500,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING IN DAYTON, ALONG WITH ERIC WOOD, VICE PRESIDENT OF PROPERTY MANAGEMENT.

THE DEVELOPMENT HOUSES 162 APARTMENTS, 100,000 SQUARE FEET OF COMMERCIAL SPACE AND A 463 SPACE PARKING GARAGE.

WOOD: IT'S LIKE STACKING FIVE WALMARTS ON TOP OF EACH OTHER.

THAT'S HOW BIG IT IS.

WE'RE ON THE SIXTH FLOOR.

THIS IS THE FLOOR PLATE THAT WE'RE STANDING IN HERE IS APPROXIMATELY 26,000 FEET RENTABLE.

SO JUST TO PUT THAT IN PERSPECTIVE, YOU COULD HAVE 100-ISH PEOPLE IN HERE WORKING IN A FULLY BUILT OUT OFFICE.

MOORE: THE SIZE IS ALSO WHAT ATTRACTED THE DEVELOPERS FOR THIS MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT.

GRAHAM: TO RECREATE IT WOULD BE MIND BOGGLING IF YOU ACTUALLY REBUILT THIS BRICK BY BRICK OR YARD BY YARD IN CONCRETE TERMS, IT WOULD BE A DRAMATIC UNDERTAKING.

SO I THINK THE SHEER SIZE OF THE OPPORTUNITY WAS ATTRACTIVE.

THIS PROJECT IS A PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN CRAWFORD HOYING AND WOODARD DEVELOPMENT.

THOSE ARE THE DEVELOPMENT PARTNERS, WOODARD BEING LOCAL TO DAYTON AND CRAWFORD HOYING IN DUBLIN.

SO IT'S A CONTINUATION OF OUR INVESTMENT IN THE WATER STREET DISTRICT.

BUT THIS TYPE OF PROJECT OF THIS SCALE AND SCOPE DOESN'T HAPPEN WITHOUT ROBUST PUBLIC/PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS.

SO CITY OF DAYTON AND THE DAYTON PORT AUTHORITY IN PARTICULAR WERE CRITICAL TO BEING ABLE TO GET THIS PROJECT DONE.

MOORE: BUILT IN 1915, THE DELCO PLAYED A HISTORIC ROLE IN DAYTON INDUSTRY.

WOOD: SO ORIGINALLY IT WAS THE DELCO PLANT BACK IN THE DAYS OF CHARLES KETTERING.

SO LOTS OF INVENTIONS AND THINGS HAPPEN HERE DURING THAT TIME PERIOD.

AFTER THAT WENT TO MENDELSONS AND WAS A GIANT WAREHOUSE FULL OF ITEMS WHEN WE TOOK OVER THE PROPERTIES.

MOORE: PUMPING IN $100 MILLION, THE DEVELOPERS EMBRACED THE CHARACTER OF THIS LANDMARK BUILDING WHILE WORKING TO CAPITALIZE ON EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE.

GRAHAM: THINGS YOU'LL NOTICE AS WE WALK THROUGH HERE IS THIS IS ALL, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ORIGINAL FLOORS THROUGH HERE.

SO THESE HAVE BEEN CUT AND POLISHED AND, LIKE, THIS IS REALLY WHAT WAS HERE, OUTSIDE OF MAKING IT, YOU KNOW, SMOOTH SO IT'S NOT A TRIP HAZARD.

YOU'LL SEE SOME EMBEDDED LIKE REMNANTS OF PRIOR USE LIKE THE STEEL PLATES AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT ADDS TO, I THINK, THE INDUSTRIAL CHIC CHARACTER OF THE PROJECT.

MOORE: THEY ALSO KEPT THE MAJORITY OF THE EXTERIOR OF THE BUILDING AND, WITH A STROKE OF GOOD LUCK, FOUND THE SPACING BETWEEN THE MANY SUPPORT COLUMNS WORKED PERFECTLY TO FIT TWO CARS BETWEEN THEM IN THE GARAGE.

GRAHAM: IF YOU HAD TO RECONSTRUCT, IF YOU HAD TO REBUILD A PARKING GARAGE, YOU CAN EASILY BE $30-$40,000 PER SPACE, AND THERE'S 463 SPACES HERE.

SO YOU CAN DO THAT ARITHMETIC.

IT WOULD BE AN EXPENSIVE GARAGE.

MOORE: BUT DELAYS DUE TO COVID AND SOME UNIQUE CONSTRUCTION ADDED SIGNIFICANTLY TO THE COST, INCLUDING WINDOWS AND ELECTRICAL WIRING THROUGH 15 INCH CONCRETE FLOORS.

GRAHAM: IT'S NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART.

ADAPTIVE REUSE IS CHALLENGING BECAUSE IT DOESN'T FOLLOW ANY PARTICULAR ROADMAP FOR DEVELOPMENT.

RIGHT NOW WE'RE IN THE CLUB ROOM HERE.

IT'S AN AMENITY SPACE FOR THE RESIDENTS THAT LIVE IN THIS BUILDING.

WE ALSO HAVE A REALLY BIG DOG PARK OUTSIDE AS WELL.

SO A GREAT PLACE TO TAKE YOUR PET.

USUALLY IN AN URBAN ENVIRONMENT, IT'S TOUGH TO FIND A PLACE TO TAKE YOUR DOG ON A WALK.

BUT WE HAVE A GREAT PLACE THAT YOU CAN UNLEASH YOUR DOG AND LET THEM RUN FREE AND PLAY, WHICH IS A GREAT AMENITY FOR THE BUILDING.

MOORE: AND SINCE IT OPENED, MORE THAN TWO THIRDS OF THE APARTMENTS ARE ALREADY LEASED.

WOOD: SO WE HAVE SOME LOCAL DAYTONIANS, YOU KNOW, MOVING HERE FROM OTHER AREAS OF DAYTON, MAYBE THE SUBURBS, MAYBE OTHER AREAS OF OHIO.

BUT WE SEE LARGE MARKET OF FOLKS COMING TO DAYTON, OHIO.

SO NEW YORK AND CALIFORNIA AND TEXAS, FLORIDA COMING HERE FOR JOBS AND REALLY TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE COST OF LIVING IN DAYTON, OHIO, COMPARED TO SOME OF THESE BIGGER MARKETS.

MOORE: NEW BUSINESSES ARE MOVING INTO THE WATER STREET DISTRICT.

BASE CAMP OUTDOORS OWNERS CLAIRE AND BRYSON CROSS RECENTLY HAD THEIR RIBBON CUTTING OPENING, ATTENDED BY MAYOR JEFFREY MIMS, AND ARE THRILLED BY THE LOCATION.

B.

CROSS: WE'RE RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE DAYTON DRAGONS STADIUM, REALLY CLOSE TO RIVERSCAPE METROPARK, THE GREAT MIAMI RIVER TRAIL.

SO REALLY A HUB FOR ACTIVITY IN DAYTON.

AND THAT'S WHAT BASE CAMP IS.

IT'S A PLACE WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO COME TO LEARN ABOUT WHAT THERE IS TO DO.

C. CROSS: IT'S TRULY HERE FOR EVERYONE.

THERE'S GREAT PLACES TO EAT, THERE'S GREAT PLACES TO HANG OUT, AND THERE'S A GREAT, FAMILY FRIENDLY WAY TO WATCH A BALL GAME.

GRAHAM: IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE SUSTAINABILITY IMPACT OF A BUILDING LIKE THIS, LIKE, ALL THIS CONCRETE WE'RE STANDING ON, YOU CAN JUST SEE SO MUCH OF IT, THE BRICKS.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S A CARBON FOOTPRINT ASSOCIATED WITH REPRODUCING ALL OF THAT.

AND WE NOT ONLY DIDN'T SEND IT TO A LANDFILL, BUT WE EMBRACED IT AND USED IT AGAIN.

SO I THINK THAT'S A PIECE OF IT THAT MAKES IT JUST REWARDING TO DO FOR SURE, IS TO JUST SEE SOMETHING LIKE THIS SAVED AND EMBRACED AND MAYBE MADE BETTER THAN IT WAS IN THE FIRST PLACE, SO.

THOMPSON: THANKS FOR THAT STORY, EMIKO.

YOU REALLY COVERED THE TRANSFORMATION WELL.

I'M WONDERING WHAT THE APARTMENTS INSIDE THE DELCO LOOK LIKE AND WHAT'S THE RENT?

MOORE: YES, THERE'S 162 APARTMENTS AND THEY RANGE FROM MICRO APARTMENTS, WHICH ARE LESS THAN 500 SQUARE FEET, UP TO THREE BEDROOM APARTMENTS, WITH RENTS RANGING FROM $980 TO $3500.

AND THE MANAGER TELLS US THAT MORE THAN TWO THIRDS OF THE APARTMENTS ARE ALREADY LEASED.

SO CLEARLY THERE IS GOOD DEMAND.

THOMPSON: AND IN THE SAME WAY THAT WE HEARD ABOUT WITH THE MODEL GROUP WORKING ON THE ARCADE AND THE CENTER CITY BUILDING ACROSS THE STREET, THE DEVELOPERS OF THE DELCO REALLY HAVE A LOT GOING ON IN THE WATER STREET DISTRICT AROUND THE BALLPARK.

MOORE: YES, IT DEFINITELY FEELS LIKE A DISTRICT PLAN BECAUSE THE DEVELOPERS ALSO HAVE OTHER RENTAL PROPERTIES AND HOTELS IN THIS AREA, INCLUDING THE DELCO LOFTS, WHICH ARE RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET AND ARE ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF ADAPTIVE REUSE.

THIS AREA OF DAYTON HAS SUCH A RICH HISTORY, SO IF ANYONE IS A HISTORY BUFF, THIS IS A GREAT CHANCE TO KIND OF LOOK INTO THE DELCO HISTORY ON DAYTON AND THE REGION.

BUT IT JUST SHOWS THAT WHEN YOU HAVE HISTORICAL BUILDINGS COMING TOGETHER WITH MODERN NEEDS FOR HOUSING, SOME GOOD THINGS CAN HAPPEN WITH ADAPTIVE REUSE.

THOMPSON: WE'LL CERTAINLY BE FOLLOWING THAT DISTRICT.

MULTIMEDIA JOURNALIST EMIKO MOORE, THANKS FOR THAT REPORT.

MOORE: THANKS, ANN.

THOMPSON: FROM THE WATER STREET DISTRICT BACK TO DOWNTOWN DAYTON, THERE'S ANOTHER GOOD EXAMPLE OF HOW CONVERSIONS ARE HELPING TO CREATE MORE HOUSING AND PRESERVE HISTORIC BUILDINGS.

THE DENEAU BUILDING, FORMERLY REFERRED TO AS THE GRANT-DENEAU ACROSS FROM THE DAYTON ARCADE, WILL BE OPENING UP TO NEW TENANTS IN EARLY 2025.

IT'S BEEN REDEVELOPED BY WINDSOR COMPANIES INTO A MIXED USE PROJECT THAT WILL FEATURE 140 LUXURY APARTMENTS AND COMMERCIAL SPACE.

WINDSOR PREVIOUSLY HAS HAD A HAND IN TURNING AROUND THE FIRE BLOCKS DISTRICT EAST OF THERE, WITH THE STORE'S SITE AT FOURTH STREET AND JEFFERSON BEING ONE OF THE LATEST CONVERSIONS FROM RETAIL IN A MIXED USE, INCLUDING APARTMENTS.

THE DENEAU BUILDING, HOWEVER, WAS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SCALE OF CHALLENGE.

THE FIRST MODERN HIGH RISE BUILDING IN DOWNTOWN DAYTON IN THE '60S, THE BUILDING WAS EMPTY FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS BEFORE WINDSOR TOOK IT OVER.

USING PRIVATE EQUITY AND HISTORIC TAX CREDITS, THEY HAD TO DO WHAT MANY DEVELOPERS FACE WHEN TRANSFORMING OFFICE TOWERS INTO SOMETHING NEW.

DORSEY: WHERE DOES ALL THE PLUMBING GO?

RUNNING UP THROUGH THE MIDDLE OF THE BUILDING, OR WHERE DOES IT YOU KNOW, WHERE DOES EVERYTHING RUN?

AND THESE ARE ALL THINGS THAT WERE THE HARDEST, DAUNTING TASKS ENGINEERING WISE.

THOMPSON: ALTHOUGH THERE WERE MANY HISTORIC REQUIREMENTS IN TRANSFORMING THIS BUILDING, INCLUDING PRESERVING ITS HISTORIC OUTER SHELL KNOWN AS THE BUILDING'S CURTAIN WALL.

ONE OF THE OTHER BIG HURDLES WAS ITS ENERGY EFFICIENCY.

TO DEAL WITH THAT ASSET DIRECTOR JASON DORSEY SAYS THEY GUTTED THE ENTIRE BUILDING, INCLUDING ALL OF THE MECHANICALS, AND HAVE INSTALLED STATE OF THE ART COOLING SYSTEMS AND BETTER INSULATING GLASS.

THE END RESULT IS MEANT TO HAVE AN UPSCALE FEEL.

DORSEY: IT'S A VERY HIGH END LOOK.

IT'S A VERY -- YOU KNOW, MY BROTHER WAS LIKE, "HEY, MAKE IT LOOK LIKE SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, NOTHING LIKE ANYBODY'S EVER SEEN IN DAYTON.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE DID.

THOMPSON: WHILE THERE WERE HURDLES THROUGHOUT THIS CONSTRUCTION AND DESIGN PROCESS, WINDSOR SAYS THAT THEIR VERTICAL INTEGRATION, MEANING THEY HAVE TEAMS HANDLING MOST OF THE CONSTRUCTION AND PROCUREMENT RATHER THAN SUBCONTRACTORS, WAS KEY TO HELPING THEM GET THROUGH THOSE HURDLES.

JASON DORSEY SHARED WITH US THAT THE COMPANY HOPES TO USE THIS ADAPTIVE APPROACH IN THE FUTURE TO CREATE AFFORDABLE HOUSING AS WELL.

WELCOME BACK!

SO FAR, WE'VE SHARED A NUMBER OF CONVERSION PROJECTS AROUND LARGER HIGHRISES OR BIG WAREHOUSES.

BUT IN MANY OF THOSE CASES, UNITS ALREADY COMPLETED ARE TARGETED AT HIGHER INCOME TENANTS.

WHILE ALL NEW UNITS ARE GENERALLY A GOOD THING, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE HOUSING SHORTAGE, WE STILL OFTEN WONDER WHAT ABOUT AFFORDABLE UNITS?

WELL, ADAPTIVE REUSE HAS ALSO BEEN ONE OF THE ANSWERS TO CREATING NEW AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN CINCINNATI.

JOINING US NOW TO SHARE ABOUT THOSE HOUSING PROJECTS IS MULTIMEDIA JOURNALIST HERNZ LAGUERRE, JR. HEY, HERNZ.

LAGUERRE: HEY, ANN.

THOMPSON: SO YOU'VE COVERED THOSE.

WHAT CAN YOU TELL US?

LAGUERRE: FOR SURE.

SIMILAR TO THE REST OF THE COUNTRY, AS WE'VE MENTIONED, THERE IS A GREAT NEED FOR HOUSING IN CINCINNATI.

FOR EXAMPLE, EVERYDAY FOLKS, LIKE CINCINNATI NATIVE TODD HALSELL, WHO DOESN'T MAKE A LOT, JUST WANTED TO FIND A PLACE TO REESTABLISH HIS LIFE AT A COST HE COULD AFFORD.

HALSELL: I JUST WANTED TO BE, YOU KNOW, IN MY CITY AND MY HAVE A PLACE OF MY OWN NAME.

LAGUERRE: THERE IS ALSO A NEED FOR A VARIETY OF HOUSING, LIKE HOUSING THAT HAS ADA ACCESSIBILITY FOR THOSE WITH DISABILITIES.

KIM TERRELL, ALSO A CINCINNATIAN, RELIES ON HER WHEELCHAIR TO MOVE AROUND.

SHE LIVED IN AN APARTMENT THAT DIDN'T HAVE THAT IN THE PAST.

TERREL: I WAS PAYING SOMEONE TO TAKE ME UP AND DOWN THE STEPS WHEN I HAD TO GO PLACES.

TRUST ME, MY SAVINGS HAS NOT COME BACK YET.

LAGUERRE: ADAPTIVE REUSE GAVE BOTH TODD AND KIM A CHANCE AT HOUSING THAT FITS THEIR NEEDS.

FOR HALSELL, HE MOVED INTO THE BARRISTER, A FORMER OFFICE BUILDING.

THE BARRISTER IS COMPRISED OF TWO HISTORIC BUILDINGS THAT HAVE BEEN ADAPTED TO BRING 44 UNITS ONLINE AND IS THE FIRST AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECT IN CINCINNATI'S BUSINESS DISTRICT IN MORE THAN THREE DECADES.

BECAUSE OF THE ACCESS TO DIFFERENT RESOURCES, DOWNTOWN CINCINNATI IS THE PLACE TO BE.

HALSELL: I WAS ALWAYS WANTING AN APARTMENT RIGHT DOWN HERE FROM WHEN I WOULD BE IN TROUBLE HERE, THE JUSTICE CENTER, OR EVEN WHEN I WAS IN THE DROP IN CENTER, I'M LIKE, "DOWNTOWN IS REALLY COMING UP."

AND I GOT BLESSED.

LAGUERRE: MEANWHILE, KIM TERRELL MOVES TO MERGARD LANES, WHICH WAS PREVIOUSLY A BOWLING ALLEY IN THE COLLEGE HILL NEIGHBORHOOD.

THE ENTIRE FIRST FLOOR IS NOW ADA ACCESSIBLE.

TERREL: I HAVE THE FREEDOM TO GO IN AND OUT THE DOOR, IN AND OUT THE FRONT DOOR.

IT'S GOOD.

LAGUERRE: ADAPTIVE REUSE AT FIRST THOUGHT SEEMS COMPLETELY COST EFFECTIVE BECAUSE YOU'RE REUSING A SPACE AND NOT HAVING TO REBUILD A BUILDING FROM SCRATCH.

BUT WE LEARNED FROM DEVELOPERS THAT AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS EXPENSIVE TO MAKE AND UNEXPECTED COST CAN ARISE.

BEN EILERMAN IS DIRECTOR OF REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT AT OVER-THE-RHINE COMMUNITY HOUSING, WHICH WORKED ON THE BARRISTER.

HE TOLD ME THEY HAD SOME HOLDUPS DURING DEVELOPMENT FOR THE SMALLEST REASONS.

EILERMAN: A $60 ELECTRIC BREAKER CAN HOLD UP THE OCCUPANCY AND THE COMPLETION OF A BUILDING.

THIS ONE 6-8 MONTHS AT THE COST OF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.

LAGUERRE: OR, IN THE CASE OF MERGARD LANES, THEY HAD TO FIND A WAY TO BRING IN NATURAL LIGHT INTO THIS OLD BOWLING ALLEY THAT WASN'T DESIGNED TO HAVE 14 AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNITS.

TO CREATE ROBUST LIGHT SAFETY, THEY INSTALLED SKYLIGHTS IN EVERY UNIT.

IN ADDITION TO THAT, THEY FORMATTED THE SPACE TO HAVE A U-SHAPED CORRIDOR TO ALLOW FOR ALL THE UNITS TO FIT, WHILE ALSO INCLUDING EXTERIOR FACING WINDOWS IN EACH SPACE.

8K CONSTRUCTION COMPANY WORKED ON MERGARD LANES.

DESPITE THE STRUGGLES OF RESTRUCTURING A PLACE TO FIT A DIFFERENT PURPOSE, PRINCIPAL DEVELOPER AT 8K, MICHAEL CHEWNING, THINKS ADAPTING SOME OF THESE ABANDONED BUILDINGS TO HOUSING IS THE BEST OPTION.

CHEWNING: WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THESE BUILDINGS IN NEIGHBORHOODS, IT'S LIKE, I ALWAYS HAVE THIS THOUGHT, LIKE, "WHAT ELSE COULD IT BE?"

AND LIKE, THE ANSWER IS NOT GOOD.

IT'S LIKE IT'S GOING TO BE DEMOED AND THEN IT'S GOING TO BE IMPOSSIBLE TO BUILD NEW HOUSING THERE, OR REALLY INFEASIBLE FOR 50 YEARS.

LAGUERRE: AT THE RIBBON CUTTING FOR THE BARRISTER BACK IN SPRING OF 2024, MAYOR AFTAB PUREVAL APPLAUDED THE BARRISTER FOR SUPPLYING MUCH NEEDED HOUSING IN CINCINNATI.

PUREVAL: PROJECTS LIKE THE BARRISTERS THAT DON'T JUST HAPPEN, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO TRULY AFFORDABLE HOUSING, HOMES WE NEED MORE OF HERE DOWNTOWN AND THROUGHOUT OUR ENTIRE CITY.

LAGUERRE: AND ADAPTIVE REUSE CAN HELP FILL THAT NEED.

CHCURC, WHICH STANDS FOR COLLEGE HILL COMMUNITY URBAN REDEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, PARTNERED WITH 8K DEVELOPMENT ON MERGARD LANES.

THE CEO, EMMANUEL KARKARI, SEES CREATIVE HOUSING OPPORTUNITIES ALL AROUND THE CITY.

KARKARI: I THINK NOT JUST IN COLLEGE HILL IN THE CITY OF CINCINNATI WE JUST HAVE A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO RETHINK WHAT DEVELOPMENT LOOKS LIKE.

IN DEVELOPMENT RIGHT NOW IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT BUILDING FROM THE GROUND UP.

IF YOU LOOK AT DOING THIS IN A COST EFFECTIVE WAY, I THINK DEVELOPMENT LOOKS LIKE TAKING VACANT PROPERTY, COMMERCIAL PROPERTY, AND THEN TURNING THAT INTO VERY SPECIFICALLY AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

LAGUERRE: BOTH THE BARRISTER AND MERGARD LANES ARE EXAMPLES THAT ONE OF THE KEYS TO MORE HOUSING IS STANDING RIGHT IN FRONT OF US.

AS DEVELOPERS IN CITIES LIKE CINCINNATI AND DAYTON CONTINUE TO NAVIGATE THE FLUCTUATING VACANCY RATES IN COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS, OR WHAT TO DO WITH THE MANY ABANDONED BUILDINGS, IT WOULD SEEM THAT SOME OF THEM MIGHT JUST NEED TO BE ADAPTED.

ANN.

THOMPSON: THANKS FOR THAT, HERNZ.

YOU KNOW, WHEN WE'RE INVESTIGATING SOLUTIONS, WE WANT TO SEE IF IT CAN BE REPLICATED.

I'M WONDERING ABOUT THE BARRISTER AND ALSO MERGARD LANES, ARE THOSE MODELS THAT CAN BE COPIED?

LAGUERRE: THE SHORT ANSWER IS YES OR NO.

A LOT OF THESE AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECTS HAVE A DIVERSE FUNDING MODEL.

LET'S LOOK AT THE BARRISTER AND TWO TOOLS THAT THEY USED.

ONE WAS THE LOW INCOME HOUSING TAX CREDITS FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, AND THE OTHER WAS HISTORICAL TAX CREDITS FROM THE STATE GOVERNMENT.

THEY ESSENTIALLY USED BOTH OF THOSE TOOLS THAT BEN EILERMAN TOLD ME WERE ESSENTIAL WITH MAKING THE BARRISTER HAPPEN.

BUT IN 2023, GOVERNOR MIKE DEWINE SIGNED A BILL PREVENTING DEVELOPERS FROM USING BOTH TOOLS FOR ONE PROJECT.

THOMPSON: SO IT SOUNDS LIKE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THE FUNDING MODEL THAT THE BARRISTER USED, THAT'S NOT REALLY POSSIBLE ANYMORE.

LAGUERRE: NO, IT CAN'T BE REPLICATED.

ON TOP OF THAT, THEY WENT OVER BUDGET BECAUSE OF THE CONSTRUCTION HURDLES.

THOMPSON: THE EXAMPLES THAT YOU'VE GIVEN, IT JUST POINTS OUT THE UNIQUENESS OF DOING THIS ADAPTIVE REUSE.

LAGUERRE: THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT, AND IF YOU WANT TO SEE THE FULL VERSION OF THE BARRISTER STORY AND THE MERGARD LANES STORY, GO TO CETCONNECT.ORG/BRICKBYBRICK.

THOMPSON: MULTIMEDIA JOURNALIST HERNZ LAGUERRE, JR.

THANKS FOR THAT, HERNZ.

LAGUERRE: NO PROBLEM.

BRADLEY: ON ONE HAND, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT AND IT'S GOING TO CONTINUE.

ON THE OTHER HAND, I THINK WE CAN SLIP INTO THINKING IT'S A SILVER BULLET THAT SOLVES ALL THE PROBLEMS, AND IT'S REALLY NOT BECAUSE THERE'S JUST GOING TO BE SOME BUILDING TYPES THAT AREN'T ADAPTABLE TO THE USE THAT'S WANTED, WHETHER THAT'S RESIDENTIAL, HOSPITALITY, WHATEVER.

THOMPSON: THE MANY CONSIDERATIONS DEVELOPERS GO THROUGH BEFORE COMMITTING TO A VIABLE ADAPTIVE REUSE PROJECT CAN RANGE FROM FAIRLY STRAIGHTFORWARD TO COMPLEX.

FOR INSTANCE, IN OFFICE BUILDINGS, THE FLOORPLATE DESIGN AND LAYOUT ARE KEY CONCERNS BECAUSE YOU OFTEN EXPECT WINDOWS IN CERTAIN ROOMS IN APARTMENTS.

AND WHAT WILL YOU DO WITH THE CENTER OF THE TOWER?

THESE AND MANY OTHER CONSTRAINTS MAY FORCE A CERTAIN LAYOUT AND LIMIT THE NUMBER OF UNITS, ESPECIALLY IN HISTORICAL BUILDINGS WHERE YOU CAN'T ALTER AS MUCH.

ADDITIONALLY, THERE'S THE NEED TO UPDATE PLUMBING, HVAC, MECHANICAL UTILITIES, AND EVEN WINDOWS.

THESE ARE EACH EXPENSIVE CHALLENGES.

BRADLEY: WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT AN OFFICE, YOU MIGHT HAVE A COUPLE OF BATHROOMS ON A FLOOR OR A COUPLE OF POINTS OF PLUMBING.

YOU CHANGE THAT TO RESIDENTIAL, YOU HAVE ALL THE BATHROOMS, YOU KNOW, SHOWERS, TOILETS, THE KITCHENS, ALL THESE PENETRATIONS.

AND SO YOU'RE COMPLETELY MODIFYING THE DESIGN OF THE MECHANICAL SYSTEM AND IMPACTING THE STRUCTURE AS WELL.

SO DESIGNING ALL OF THAT AND GETTING THAT RIGHT UP FRONT IS A CHALLENGE.

THOMPSON: WHILE BRADLEY CONTINUES TO FINALIZE PLANS FOR THE CONVERSION OF THE CENTER CITY BUILDING, HE RECOGNIZES THE LIMITATIONS OF ADAPTIVE REUSE AS WELL AS HOW IT CAN SUCCEED.

HE POINTS TO THE VITAL NATURE OF PUBLIC/PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS TO MOVE THE NEEDLE, WHICH CAN INCLUDE PUBLIC SUPPORT, TAX CREDITS, TAX INCREMENT FINANCING OR TIFS, OR OTHER SHARED RESOURCES.

BRADLEY: PUBLIC/PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS BECOME VITAL BECAUSE THE CITIES NEED THESE BUILDINGS TO THRIVE.

THE BUILDING OWNERS CAN'T, IN SOME CASES, SOLVE ALL OF THAT PROBLEM THEMSELVES.

THERE'S JUST -- YOU CAN'T PUT MORE DEBT ON IT.

YOU CAN'T ATTRACT MORE PRIVATE INVESTMENT.

THERE HAS TO BE A PARTNERSHIP.

THEY HAVE TO COME TOGETHER AND SAY, "WHAT CAN WE DO?

WHAT ARE THE JOINT RESOURCES WE CAN BRING SO THAT WE FIND A PATH TO SUCCESS?"

THOMPSON: MEANWHILE, EXPERTS EXPECT THE TREND OF ADAPTIVE REUSE, ESPECIALLY IN OFFICES, TO CONTINUE.

HERE'S MARIANNE TAYLOR FROM CBRE AGAIN.

TAYLOR: I THINK WE'LL CONTINUE TO SEE AN INCREASE.

THAT'S WHERE OUR NUMBERS ARE SHOWING.

SO SPECIFICALLY HERE IN CINCINNATI, WE HAVE 11 PROJECTS CURRENTLY UNDERWAY.

AND WE ALSO KNOW THAT THERE'S FOUR OTHER PROJECTS COMING ONLINE.

SO THAT'S ALL SPECIFICALLY IN DOWNTOWN CINCINNATI.

ANOTHER TREND THAT WE'RE STARTING TO SEE HERE IN CINCINNATI AS WELL IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, IS THERE'S A FOCUS OUTSIDE OF THE DOWNTOWN SPACE.

SO WE'RE ALSO STARTING TO SEE SUBURBAN OFFICE CONVERSIONS TOO.

THOMPSON: OF COURSE, BRICK BY BRICK WILL BE TRACKING THE GROWTH OF THIS SOLUTION AS WE GO FORWARD.

WHEN IT COMES TO ADAPTIVE REUSE, IT SEEMS LIKE THERE ARE MANY GOOD EXAMPLES IN ORDER TO INVESTIGATE THIS HOUSING RESPONSE.

I KNOW WE JUST SHARED PLENTY OF THEM, SO LET'S TAKE A MOMENT TO REFLECT ON THIS SOLUTION.

THESE ARE OUR TAKEAWAYS.

WITH THE RISING COST OF MATERIALS AND THE ADDITIONAL COST OF BORROWING MONEY, REPURPOSING BUILDINGS RATHER THAN BUILDING NEW ONES SEEMS LIKE A REALLY GOOD IDEA AND IT'S SUSTAINABLE.

FOR EXAMPLE, ANOTHER ADAPTIVE PROJECT, FACTORY 52 IN NORWOOD.

DEVELOPERS THERE TURNED THE WOOD BEAMS INTO HARDWOOD FLOORING, AND RATHER THAN THROW OUT THE BRICKS THEY DIDN'T NEED IT, THEY SENT 700,000 OF THEM TO BE REPURPOSED ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

90% OF ITS MATERIALS WERE UPCYCLED, GIVING THEM A SECOND LIFE.

AND BECAUSE WHEN YOU DEMOLISH A BUILDING AND BUILD A NEW ONE, YOU RELEASE CARBON, ADAPTIVE REUSE IS CLEANER AND GREENER.

SOME ESTIMATES SAY REUSING EXISTING BUILDINGS CAN SAVE UP TO 40% OF EMISSIONS.

BECAUSE OF ALL THESE ALL THESE ASPECTS, MORE AND MORE STATES ARE ENCOURAGING IT.

OHIO'S GOVERNOR HAS ANNOUNCED A BUILDING REVITALIZATION PROGRAM, INCLUDING FUNDS FOR DEMOLITION OR POSSIBLE CONVERSION.

THE STATE IS ALSO GIVING A HISTORIC TAX CREDIT OF UP TO 25% OF QUALIFIED REHAB EXPENSES, UP TO $5 MILLION.

BUT AS WE'VE HEARD DEVELOPERS SAY, IT ISN'T EASY OR CHEAP TO TURN AN OFFICE BUILDING, A FACTORY, OR SOMETHING ELSE INTO HOUSING.

YOU HAVE TO REWORK THE PLUMBING AND HEATING AND AIR CONDITIONING AND FIGURE OUT THE LIGHTING.

DEVELOPERS SAY IT HAS TO MAKE ECONOMIC SENSE, AND IT'S HARD TO MAKE THE NUMBERS WORK FOR CAPITAL A AFFORDABLE HOUSING WITHOUT HEAVY SUBSIDY.

SO THAT'S WHY YOU SEE A LOT OF THE CONVERSIONS TURNED INTO MARKET RATE OR LUXURY APARTMENTS.

AND AS WE MOVE FORWARD, LOOK FOR CINCINNATI TO REMAIN A KEY PLAYER.

IT'S NUMBER TWO IN THE NATION FOR OFFICE TO APARTMENT CONVERSIONS.

WHY?

CBRE SAYS IT'S BECAUSE IT HAS A LOT OF TAX CREDIT FUNDS AND PLENTY OF OLD BUILDINGS.

ONE NATIONAL ARTICLE HEADLINED FROM OLD TO GOLD, SAYS ADAPTIVE REUSE ISN'T JUST ABOUT SAVING OLD BUILDINGS, IT'S ABOUT GIVING THEM A NEW PURPOSE AND A VIBRANT FUTURE.

I THINK MOST PEOPLE CAN GET BEHIND BOTH OF THOSE IDEAS, ESPECIALLY IF IT CREATES NEW HOUSING OR FULFILLS ANOTHER NEED.

SO WHAT BUILDINGS OR SITES IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD COULD BE REPURPOSED INTO HOUSING OR ANOTHER VITAL USE?

LOOK AROUND AND LET US KNOW YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS OR ANY OF THE SOLUTIONS WE'VE COVERED ON THE SHOW, THE PODCAST, OR THE WEB.

YOU CAN DO THAT VIA THE GREEN FEEDBACK BUTTON ON OUR WEB PAGE, OR YOU CAN ALSO REACH OUT TO US BY EMAILING BRICKBYBRICK @PUBLICMEDIACONNECT.ORG.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM YOU.

UNTIL NEXT TIME, FOR DAYTON-BASED JOURNALIST EMIKO MOORE AND OUR CINCY-BASED CORRESPONDENT, HERNZ LAGUERRE, JR., I'M ANN THOMPSON.

WE'LL BE BACK TO EXPLORE MORE SOLUTIONS SOON.

TAKE CARE.