>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection to Sauer was made in California with a man named Dan.

Dan's childhood wasn't an easy one.

He says his preschool teachers were one of the few stable sources of care and support when he was young, and that made him want to become a preschool teacher himself.

Dan is featured in the documentary Make a Circle, which follows a group of childcare workers in California.

We see their day to day work with kids, which I can say is inspiring, and we also see their work advocating for fair wages, health benefits and more.

It's a familiar story.

We've discussed the state of the childcare system on this program, and the experts routinely say the system is broken, that it's in crisis.

Data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, published last year, shows childcare workers are the ninth lowest paid workers in our country with a mean hourly wage of $15.93 an hour.

Wages, like those forced providers like Dan to leave the profession while he left for a teaching job in an elementary school, he says he could have made more money driving an Amazon truck than teaching preschool.

And that's no shade to Amazon drivers.

It's just an observation.

You can watch Make a Circle during a screening tonight at McKee's downtown campus.

You can also watch it on PBS passport if you are a member this hour.

We discussed the state of the childcare system and how not providing for the providers can lead to further cracks in the system.

We also take a look at what's happening in New York State, with a $4.5 billion investment in statewide universal child care, and what that could mean for families, I'd like to welcome our guests joining us in studio.

We'll go around the table.

Assembly member Sarah Clark is here from district number 136.

Welcome back to the program.

Nice having you.

>> Thanks for having me.

>> Are you here to say that there's a budget?

>> No, no, I'm just kidding.

>> But you are here to talk about what the state is and could be doing.

And I'm glad to have you back here.

Um, going around the table, Rose Shufelt, CEO of the childcare Council.

Roes.

Welcome.

Thanks for being here.

Thank you.

And tell us what the Childcare Council does, by the.

>> Way.

>> We offer support for parents looking for childcare.

And we also support childcare providers in all modalities through training, technical assistance, coaching, anything in all that they need.. >> Across the table.

My colleague Rachel Rosner is here early, early learning manager for WXXI Public Media.

>> Hello.

>> Thanks for coming down to my part of the building.

>> Absolutely.

>> Nice to have you here and welcome to Ann Marie Stephan, executive director of the Rochester Childfirst Network.

Thank you for being here.

>> Thank you for having me.

>> Tell us what the network does.

>> So our CDN is one of several early care and learning centers in the Rochester area.

We provide child care services as well as universal preschool, preschool, special education.

And we to support in-home providers as well.

>> Well, it's great to have you.

And joining us remotely, Jen Bradwell is co-director of Make a Circle.

Hello, Jen.

>> Hi.

Thanks for having me.

And it's exciting to see what's happening in New York State these days.

>> Well, it's great to have you here.

And the screening is tonight.

Rachel Rosner 630.

Is that right?

>> That is when the film begins.

>> Okay.

>> But we are treating our guests tonight at 6:00 to some light, yummy fare and some community resources between 6 and 630.

So if you're coming, come by six so that you can fill your tummy up and talk to others who are also invested in this work.

Before the screening at 630.

>> And where is it all happening?

>> It is happening at MCC's downtown campus, right across the street from us, and there will be folks right when you walk in the door to make sure that you find your way.

>> Okay, so you can be there at 6:00.

The screening starts at 630.

And let me start with Jen Bradwell.

Why did you want to make Make a Circle now?

Jen.

>> Yeah.

You know, my husband and I have been in documentary films for a long time, but we're also the parents of two young children.

And we actually went into debt to have them both in preschool at the same time.

Um, I'm kind of embarrassed that at that point, um, childcare wasn't really on our radar as a, as a voting issue.

You know, this is like something that every other wealthy country has figured out.

And yet, you know, I think here we're just in this mentality of like, you know, keep your head down and swallow the costs until they, they start kindergarten.

And it wasn't until the preschool teachers who were in our lives came to us with this idea of like, hey, what do you think about making a documentary that's about our work?

Because, you know, there's this big disconnect.

We know how important 0 to 5 is.

There's all these economic arguments for investing in the early years.

And yet we have friends and family members who say things to us like, so you just change diapers all day, right?

Like there's such a lack of visibility and appreciation for this work.

So maybe if people could get a more honest depiction of it, we would be willing to value it more.

And we just had the bizarre timing of starting to film about two weeks before the Covid pandemic, which was such a wrecking ball for the industry.

And that really kind of exploded the scope and scale of the story.

We thought we were getting into.

Um, and I'll let the rest of the film speak for itself, but that's, that's where it all started.

>> Well, and I think there's a couple of things to come to mind there.

When you talk about misunderstandings or assumptions about childcare, first of all, the idea that, you know, it's diaper changing, whatever.

I mean, certainly, I think the film attempts to and really does the job of putting the lie to that.

And people like Dan's story is tough.

You know, here's somebody who really felt like his life changed and then had to question whether he could do that work at all because of what he's paid.

I want to just read a short list here, Jen.

So this is the list of the top ten lowest paid regular work in the country by mean wage across groups here.

Number one lowest would be Shampoo's.

Number two, cooks and fast food.

Number three, amusement and recreation attendance.

Um, and that's tied with fast food and counter workers.

So number five, Usher's lobby attendants and ticket attendants and ticket takers, number six cashiers, number seven hosts and hostesses, the restaurant, lounge and coffee shop.

Number eight, gambling and sports book writers and runners and number nine childcare workers.

Number ten is dishwashers.

So the other, I think assumption, Jen, is that because childcare is so expensive, you talk about going into debt for it because it's so expensive.

Well, the providers have to be making a ton of money.

The people doing it have to be making a ton of money.

And that's where your brain kind of goes.

Like, how can we be going into debt?

And yet the people who are doing this vital work, like can't even afford it.

How does this the system, it seems, has got to be broken.

If that's the case.

>> Make it make sense.

Yeah, no, it's often referred to as a broken market.

That means and we say in the film how, you know, parents can't afford to pay and teachers can't afford to stay.

Like there's really no way to price it in a way that, you know, parents can actually afford to access childcare.

And yet the early educators are earning a livable wage.

And that's really because it's super labor intensive.

Like you can't like, think about a college classroom where you have one professor teaching 100 students, um, for, for infants, you generally have, you know, one early educator for every three or sometimes four inference.

And, and even that is a lot like think about how much skill it takes, you know, just to have one young child in your care.

So it's incredibly skilled and difficult work.

Um, and yet it just, it's a system that doesn't work without public funding and very little, um, of the childcare system, you know, uh, it involves like public subsidy, you know, things like head start or state subsidy slots that help parents pay for care or that help early educators have livable wages.

So, you know, there's happy to talk about what's happening in New York State right now, as you know, a step in the right direction.

Um, but it needs a lot more public investment and prioritization on the part of policymakers to make this a system that actually works for everybody.

>> Well, and if you don't mind, I'm going to ask Rachel Rosner, my colleague.

Do you mind me asking you just a little bit about your own decision and sort of your own work path and what you felt like you could and couldn't do here?

>> Sure.

Um, when I was in college, I wanted to be a school teacher.

So I got a, I went about the process of getting my bachelor's in education and my teaching license.

By the time I was a senior, I realized I didn't want to be in public school and that I really wanted to focus on early childhood because for me, I wasn't as interested in what the kids were learning.

I was interested in how kids learn.

And in an early childhood setting, that is your job as an educator is to help kids learn how to learn, and that sets the stage for their future success.

So, um, I started working in childcare and very quickly realized I needed another job.

I had two other jobs in addition to my full time work in childcare, and it just was not sustainable for, for pretty much anybody in the long term, um, to have that many jobs just to pay your rent to for the privilege of doing something that you love to do and that you feel passionate about.

Um, I was offered an opportunity for a promotion and I took it so that I didn't have to worry about not having benefits.

I didn't have to worry about not being able to pay my bills.

Um, and I could have a personal life.

I could have a family.

And so I've all these years, uh, more than 30.

Um, tried to, you know, keep my fingers in the early childhood universe, um, and have been fairly successful in doing that in different roles.

Um, but.

>> I just couldn't make it work for myself and my family.

>> First of all, I do think you've done a good job of keeping your fingers in that universe.

And I and we at XXI, I appreciate what you do, but is it fair to say that had the pay scale been different, your career path would have been different?

>> 100%, 100%.

If if I was paid a livable wage from the beginning, if I knew that maybe it was going to be tight for the first few years, but after X number of years, my salary would go up, my hourly wage would go up.

Um, that I would be working in a place that had benefits that I could actually afford to take advantage of, and that would be helpful to me in my family.

Um, I would probably still be in the classroom.

That's my favorite part is, is working with the kiddos.

That's my favorite part of this job too.

>> So on that note here, the question of what to do, and we've talked a lot about this with people like Assembly Member Sarah Clark, but this has been on my mind for the last week or so when.

Well, the president says a lot of stuff, as you know.

>> He does.

>> But here's something that the president said six days ago.

He said, quote, it's not possible for us to take care of daycare, to take care of Medicaid, Medicare, all these individual things.

And then he said, they can do it.

The states can do it, said the United States government has limitations.

They've got to focus on the military.

They're fighting wars.

It's not possible for us to take care of the daycare.

Did you hear the president.

>> Say that?

I did hear the president say that.

Um, and it having spent 20 years as a staffer as well in the US, the United States Senate, um, and doing the policy work there, it, it, it is hard to hear that, particularly around childcare, given the huge amount of bipartisan support for childcare, um, at a national level, but also as you start to look, as you compare us to other countries, the only, you know, the only country of our first world economy that doesn't have family leave or paid family leave that doesn't have an early child care policy or real commitment or investment at a national level.

Um, these, you know, and then you wonder why things like birth rates decline and other things like that.

And it's because we've created a system that makes it really hard to have children.

People make decisions about having children based on childcare costs.

It is hard to fathom and hard to think that that is why people are making these choices.

But some people are, um, and that really is something we all need to grapple with as we look at, you know, population and look at how we support families and what.

>> We do.

Well, a couple of things there.

I, if people feel like, or if people understand that childcare costs are going to be like sending a kid to college starting at age zero, not 18.

Absolutely.

People may decide, I can't do it.

I mean, that's that may break some people's hearts, but it is the reality.

If it feels like you're starting right at birth, at figuring out thousands upon thousands of dollars in costs or debt, um, but let me ask you about this idea that the president says, look, we're in, we're in war time.

>> Always seems to be money for war.

>> The federal government cannot do this realistically.

Is he right?

I mean, is that is he making a fair point at all there?

>> I mean, there's always money for war, it seems, at the expense of our own personal domestic infrastructure of schools, children, families, roads, bridges, you name it.

Um, they always seem to come second when it, when the money that is needed for wars are there.

We, I mean, I don't work at the federal government, but I can say that if you look historically over what has happened in the various pieces of legislation that have passed since he took office this year, um, or last year, is that we have truly eroded the way we invest in the middle class.

We have given the biggest tax cuts to our corporations and to our millionaires and billionaires at the so that they can continue to become trillionaires, I guess, or whatever it may be.

But it really comes at the expense of investing in what helps and supports middle class families.

And it is really hard to watch because then you say, well, at least we're not paying all this money for wars.

And now you turn around and we are asking for what was the big the last ask $200 billion or.

>> I think a total Pentagon budget of 1.4 trillion projected going forward, $1 billion a day for the war.

Yeah.

They wanted another 200 billion.

>> Yeah.

I mean, these are staggering numbers that if you invested in early childhood, would do so much.

Um, and, and, you know, we talk a lot about whether or not you have children because of the cost of childcare.

A lot of times you get a lot of pushback of, well, then, you know, someone should stay home.

It's not that.

>> Every time we have this conversation, I get that email.

>> Yes.

>> So you want to do that right now?

Sure.

Email from X person is going to say to me, if you can't afford kids, don't have them.

>> Or someone should stay home.

And the reality is, first of all, not everyone economically can have someone stay home.

It's just not our economics don't work.

Um, but two people don't necessarily want to stay home.

They want careers.

It does hurt women's careers.

It does hurt women's retirement.

It does hurt, uh, you know, sort of the longevity of a career, um, for women particularly, who end up being the ones that stay home.

And we have to maintain those choices because we do it so easily for often men.

Um, so it, it, it just doesn't make sense to say that.

Not to mention there is a collective good to having children in high quality child care programs at early ages.

We know 0 to 3.

They're like sponges.

There's so much happening when we can do more.

When I look at my children, were able to get at such early ages.

That matters.

Um, and then the three, four up to, you know, it makes a difference at school age makes a difference when those kids walk into a kindergarten room, um, helps on literacy rates, helps on, um, classroom expectations and all the different things that we want children to have so that they can succeed and thrive.

And so there is a collective community, good to good, early childhood, accessible and affordable programing.

>> So here's what I want to do.

I want to ask, uh, related to the what to do about that.

I want to ask Jen and Anne and Marie.

I want to get their takes on sort of the lay of the land here.

And our second half hour Assembly member Clark will talk more about what New York State is doing and and maybe doing going forward.

I mean, it is budget season.

There's a lot going on.

Um, but Jen Bradwell, who's the co director of Make a Circle here, which you can see tonight, 6:00 doors are open, refreshments are there.

630 screening at the MCC downtown campus.

They'd love to see you there.

And then my colleague Noelle Evans is moderating a panel discussion right afterwards at 730.

And so in some of our guests on this program today will be there tonight.

So a really important night for that.

Um, it's a really digestible film.

I mean, like it's an hour, it'll probably hit you hard in some ways.

And, and then there's going to be a conversation about that.

Um, Jen Bradwell related to what can be done.

Again, I don't want to make this a big political hour, but I do want to ask you about what the Vice president said.

So the Vice president has talked a lot about his concern about birth rates, about people choosing not to have children.

He wants to see more Americans decide that having children is a valuable thing to do for their lives and for the future of this country.

He's worried about birth replacement rate, which a lot of people are around the world.

And one of the things that Vice President said was in his family, the vice president, the, the, the grandparents were able to sort of drop what they were doing in some ways and jump in and help.

And we need more families cohesive like that.

Multi-generations we need grandparents involved.

Um, perhaps aunts and uncles, and we need to utilize the family structure outside.

Just mom and dad that that would help a lot more people decide they can do this.

Um, what do you make of that?

Jen?

>> Yeah.

I mean, you know, people who are, who have grandparents who can step in in that way are quite lucky.

I would say that was not our experience for our family.

And it's, it's getting less and less common.

You know, we don't have the same kind of family structure and villages that we did, you know, generation 2 or 3 ago.

Um, my husband and I, I feel like, you know, when we left the hospital with our baby, we're like, I can't believe you're letting us leave with this baby.

We have no idea what we're doing.

And it was hard for us to, like, find a village.

I was like, reading all these parenting books.

I had a colicky baby.

I had postpartum depression, and it really wasn't until we landed in a preschool that I felt like, oh, I think I can do this now.

Like I have my village of support.

I have these really knowledgeable teachers that can tell me, this is why your baby isn't sleeping, this is why they aren't eating X, Y, Z. And it didn't.

It wasn't like a shameful thing where I felt like, oh, I wish I could stay at home with my baby so I don't have to access childcare.

It actually like it made our village like it made our family possible.

My, our kids were so happy there.

We actually decided to have a second kid because we love the school so much and just wanted to be around these amazing early educators and the friends and families that we made there.

Like it was, it was such a joyful, albeit, you know, incredibly expensive thing.

Um, and so I think if there was more, if there was more appreciation of what early educators are truly doing for kids and families and their communities, as well as the economy, um, it's going to be properly invested in.

And, you know, one, one interesting thing that we're seeing in New York State is, you know, there's some pilot programs in counties like Monroe, um, that are making it more accessible for parents.

But what really needs to happen is that we're raising the wages of early educators because there's such high turnover in that field.

And we really want, you know, well trained, professionally compensated folks to be taking care of these kids and supporting families at a very vulnerable and important time of their lives.

So, you know, part of why we made the film is just to have like a mentality, you know, narrative shift that needs to happen in order for us to make change in childcare and early education.

>> Rose Shufelt, the CEO of the Childcare Council.

So how do you see the landscape of childcare right now?

>> Uh, definitely what everybody else has been saying here.

We need to make sure that every educator feels valued and supported and that we make sure that we see that change and advocate for that change.

Um, part of our role at the council is to do that advocacy and be a part of that.

Um, making sure that we provide services that support those providers through training, coaching, doing whatever we can to have those services to support the provider.

Our services are free.

So knowing that they can reach out to us to support them in the classrooms, in their homes, um, providing the best training that they can, making sure that they feel supported, um, we're there, they can call us, um, making sure they know that the job that they do is important.

I taught classes for a long time before I sat in the chair that I do now.

And, you know, one of the things I always said to them, um, you know, when somebody asks you what, what do you do for a living?

I told them, tell them you're an architect.

And they would look at me like, what are you what do you mean?

And I said, you build babies brains.

There's nothing more important.

No more important job than that.

And they would look at me and say, you're right.

And we need them to stand up for themselves and know that they do.

They are the most important people.

They raise our little ones and they need to identify with that and know that the job they do is important, and we need to keep repeating that.

And yeah, just keeping that message going.

>> You can't keep them in, in coming back to work if they can't get paid.

Well, I mean.

>> That is.

>> True for for a lot of people.

And that's an understandable choice as we've been talking about who's responsible for paying them more.

>> Well, that's a tough question.

Um, we definitely need some help from the system.

>> You can say it, you can say it.

>> The state.

Yeah.

>> You want to see the state step in here.

>> We do need help.

Absolutely.

>> Do you think the president's right saying the feds can't do it.

>> Um I don't want to get into that conversation.

Um, I think it's a collective effort.

>> And I would say when.

>> I get into that.

>> Conversation and, and I'm not running for office, I'll say the, the quiet part out loud.

No.

And I, and I do it without public.

Investment at many.

>> Levels.

>> Like.

>> The, the city, the county, the state, the federal level, like everyone needs to be investing in this system.

But the good news is, is that it pays for itself many times over every dollar you invest in the early years returns at least $7 in the long run.

And there are some studies coming out about like how quickly these programs pay for themselves, just in the short run in terms of like more tax revenue, because you have parents who are able to be in the workforce.

So there's, there's no reason not to invest.

And the federal government definitely has a role to play.

>> And I would say like, if you even when I say New York State pays for it, I mean, a big chunk of our childcare dollars are federal dollars that pass through to us as a state.

And then we, uh, use that to, to dole out through the, along with our own funds.

And if you look under the Biden administration, to be fair, is that, you know, they had the Build Back Better plan, and I think it almost would have tripled the federal investment in childcare.

Like there are ideas out there.

And the federal government has a role.

When I say the state, I mean using our infrastructure to figure out a way to do it.

But it is not alone on our our New York state resources.

The federal government needs to step up for sure.

>> Before I go across the table.

One other note on that.

Are you surprised that there aren't more people in elected office, especially at the federal level, where you worked as a staff member before you became a state lawmaker?

Are you surprised that there isn't more political momentum for it because it's pretty popular?

One thing that's not all that popular is $1 billion a day for a war.

Correct that.

Again, I'm not being like snide about this, but the war that is now in a ceasefire is the most unpopular war in modern American polling.

Most people say they don't want it, and we're spending $1 billion a day there, and we're asking for $200 billion more.

And the president's comments six days ago that, well, we're in a war.

We can't do childcare, we can't do Medicare and Medicaid.

I actually wondered if he, like, someone gave him the wrong script.

And it was a Democratic ad from November that he accidentally read read for you guys.

I mean, like.

It is, it just doesn't seem like a popular position.

>> It is not popular.

Childcare is very popular, not to mention the billion dollars a day in federal money, but the impact of higher gas prices, not just for our cars and our ability to get around, but on literally everything we buy going up.

So the cost to Americans for this war is beyond even just the billion dollar a day.

Um, so yes, I am shocked.

Childcare has historically had huge bipartisan support.

Like I said, the Build Back Better act was very close to passing under the Biden administration with bipartisan support.

And I think it was sort of the landscape of Trump taking office again, that ended up killing it.

Um, and, and people just saying, well, let's just wait to see, you know, the outcome of that election.

And then it just sort of died on the vine as is.

But it not only does it pay to invest in that child through early childhood programing, as well as the parents and the family who are able to work and both work and have careers if they choose to.

If we properly paid the childcare workforce.

The report we did in 2021 2022 on our our, um, then childcare proposal would pull 84,000 families in New York state out of poverty.

These are childcare workers who qualify for public assistance right now because they don't get paid a lot that we and they're mostly women, mostly women of color led families that we would pull out of poverty.

We double solve problems by properly investing in paying in to our child care workforce.

>> So across the table here, I want Ann Marie Stephan executive director of Rochester Childfirst Network to give your sort of take the temperature of the industry as you see it.

What do you see right now?

>> So it's definitely it's a very challenging business to be in.

Um, and it was challenging prior to Covid.

Um, I think one of the silver linings of Covid was it highlighted the challenges that we face and continue to face.

Um, but there's been little to no improvement.

Um, so, you know, I, I guess I'm sitting here thinking of what would speak to the president and the brave men and women that are serving our country right now were children at one time.

And to me, it comes down to values.

And, um, if the military is important, you need to support the children.

Now that will eventually make that choice to serve our country in the future.

Um, one of the parts of the movie, and I wanted to extend my thanks to Jen and her husband for doing this documentary and providing this visibility to the industry.

Um, one of the things that resonated the most with me was, um, Dan, um, because that's something that happens every day.

I can say every day.

>> You mean people say, I want to do this work?

I love this work.

I can't, I can't afford.

>> It, I can't do it.

And leaving to go to school districts who, you know, can pay a lot more, uh, therapists.

We, our agency provides preschool special education.

So, so we have therapists on staff therapists can make, you know, double and more in a hospital setting, in a nursing home setting, um, teachers can make more in school districts and then they have the benefits package that a district can offer and state pension.

And, um, we, we simply cannot compete with that.

And so it contributes to, you know, the revolving door of staff, which is, which isn't good for kids, you know, and we all, you know, consistency, um, consistent caregivers is, is important.

And, um, and that's, it makes it that much more challenging.

>> Yeah.

This is like where, look, if you're a CEO making $1 million on a company that makes flowers and then you want to make 1.5 at a company that makes Bitcoin, maybe make less and maybe stay with the flowers.

This is not a case where doubling your salary is like some venal cash grab.

I think the assembly member mentioned there are people who work in childcare who are on public assistance.

That is hard to fathom.

Many that's hard to.

>> Fathom, many.

>> Just getting getting to a point where you can get your head above water and try to think about your own future.

You cannot.

I don't think you can morally blame people.

>> No, no.

I have staff and I know there's other agencies that do as well that can speak to this, um, who have food insecurity, who have lost their house, that have become homeless while working in childcare.

Um.

>> It's amazing.

>> It is amazing.

And I guess to me, it's really startling that there's, there's not much of a response to that.

And these are people that are responsible for our children and they don't even meet the or unable to, you know, get the lower bottom of Maslow's hierarchy of needs met.

So how can we be expecting them to, you know, to, to then come in every day and provide care to children?

>> So can I just ask everybody involved here?

Is there a state that's like, what?

Look at this state.

They're doing it perfect.

They're doing it so well.

>> New Mexico's doing.

>> Well, New Mexico.

>> But they have a tapped in resource to pay for it.

They have using their fossil fuel industry to pay for it.

But and it's smaller and it's a little more manageable.

And we have 19 million people in the state of New York.

So it's a little harder.

But they're doing I mean, they are doing really well on this path to universal health care and, uh, raising pay for childcare workers.

>> All right, so one out of 50, um, I mean, again, it, it feels snide, but it's amazing because I, anybody who's a parent, you want your kids taken care of by people who are taking care of.

>> Um.

>> Yeah, I mean, it's so basic.

Uh, so let's take our only break here.

We can welcome some feedback from the audience.

We're talking to Jen Bradwell, who is the co-director of Make a Circle, which is what's got all of us here today.

And it's what should have you tonight.

Uh, going to the MCC downtown campus.

Make a Circle is a documentary about this child care crisis, and it is showing it's only about an hour long.

It's showing tonight at 630 at the MCC downtown campus.

WXXI is proud to be part of this event.

And the doors open at 6:00.

There will be some light refreshments and then a discussion after the film.

So really important evening and I know they'd love to be there to see you there.

Rachel Rosner, my colleague who is an early learning manager for WXXI, will be there, of course, and joining us in studio Assembly member Sarah Clark from district 136.

You just heard Ann Marie Stephan executive director of the Rochester Childfirst Network Rose Shufelt, CEO of the Child Care Council.

They're all here.

We'll come right back with some of your feedback next.

I'm Evan Dawson Thursday on the next Connections.

In our first our Facebook and YouTube sued for millions of dollars.

Is this a turning point in how the law sees social media and its effect on us and our children?

We'll talk about it then in our second hour, what New York State could do this year in regards to energy at a time of energy crisis around the world?

Talk with you Thursday.

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I'm Evan Dawson.

Um, okay.

I'm glad to see that I read the back end of this email that says wish to remain anonymous.

So this is an anonymous email.

Evan.

I'm I'm a 30 year old male.

I don't have kids.

My partner and I don't plan on it.

I just heard a stat that said 52% of women between 20 and 35 don't have kids.

And it's really no wonder why we can barely afford to take care of ourselves.

How are we supposed to support a child today?

Women have more choice than ever about motherhood.

That's a great thing.

It also means that if you structure an economy around maximizing shareholder value at all costs, that leaves no room for human flourishing, and people will choose not to have kids.

We've been told our whole lives don't have kids you can't afford.

And we took that to heart.

Now the boomers are all panicking that we, the millennials, won't give them grandchildren.

That is the height of hypocrisy.

It's an anonymous email.

Uh, who?

The boomers saying you're not going to give us.

I mean, that's a yeah, that's tough.

I don't I don't even know where to Jen Bradwell you want to blame me?

I don't know where to go with that one.

Co-Director Make a Circle.

>> That's such a. Yeah, no, that's such a thoughtful email.

>> And he sounds like he would be an amazing dad if he chose to do so.

You know, like what we're missing out on because we're making it so hard for families to start to start to have children, you know, just to stay in the workforce, to have thriving wages regardless.

Um, I'm going to thank Assembly Member Clark for teeing up a segue to what is our next film in production right now, which is about the state of New Mexico becoming the first state in the country to do a universal free childcare program for everyone in the state, regardless of their income.

And we were just there filming last week.

Um, we filmed with the governor and a lot of other policy makers, and we've asked them, you know, a lot of other people are seeing the headlines like, great, that New Mexico could do this, but it would never work in our state because we don't have an oil and gas, you know, land grant.

And so they're answering that question of how it can work in other states with different funding streams.

Again, with this idea of the investments pay for themselves really quickly.

You know, they're broad bipartisan support.

The business community loves it.

Like there's really no reason to not like go big or go home and really invest on this issue.

Um, so, you know, in the next few months, hopefully we'll, we'll come back with a screening of New Mexico.

And you know what that that means for states like New York too, as they're looking to expand their efforts.

>> And I do have ideas of how we can pay for it in New York.

I'm just saying we don't have that easy one to choose from.

And I would also say it, you know, when people talk about economic development to something, a state does do a lot and we do it.

You hear it.

A lot of programs, like if we had universal childcare, really for any worker to access, this would also be a huge economic development engine because employers would want to be here because that takes that burden off of them as something that their employees would, would struggle with.

And we saw that clearly in Covid and beyond.

>> Um, briefly here, can I ask a couple of our guests in studio, um, Anne Marie, do you want to respond to that anonymous email that, you know, someone saying, look, I'm 30, I'm feeling pressure to have grandkids from, you know, for previous generations can't do it.

>> Yeah.

I think, you know, my reaction to that is, is sadness.

Um, that, um, that we're in a position where, where, um, people are having to make that decision.

I love children, you know, I chose this, you know, to work with children as my profession.

And so, um, I don't really have a solution.

It's just, it's just a, it hits hard.

It's a feeling of sadness.

>> What do you think, rose?

>> Yeah, same.

I have seven grandchildren.

My daughter, one of my daughters has one child.

She has pretty much made the choice to have one child because of childcare costs.

So I feel that as well.

Um, yeah, I what do we do?

That is the question.

>> Anything you want to add?

Rachel.

>> Only that the the possibility that um, our state and other states could be helpful to, to so many families with supplement supplementing the and giving them vouchers or whatever they want to call it for the cost of childcare.

Um, can change those people's lives, can lift them out of poverty if they have, and they don't have to be forced to make the decision.

Do I send my children to childcare and go to college so I can go to college?

Or do I feed my children when I get home?

I think that there is, um, just so much potential good at what can happen when we sort of close our eyes and imagine what our community could look like with universal child care here.

I really hope that the momentum stays.. >> All right.

This is from Barb in Monroe County, talking about an issue that I think is kind of going to be one of the big sleeper political issues in the next two years, she says.

Listening to programs, discussing couples, having more children.

And then you listen to another program later on talking about the future with AI possibly causing reduction in job opportunities.

If that's the case, would we have more families unable to support themselves?

Um, especially if they have 3 or 4 children.

It's just a dizzying circle that is from from Barb and Monroe County, right.

The co-director of Make a Circle, she's Barb says it's a dizzying, dizzying circle because she's, she, you know, she hears the AI companies themselves saying, we're pushing forward and there's a good chance that our technology is going to take millions of jobs and people are going, do I want to have kids in that environment?

Like number one?

Like, I get it, Barb.

But number two, I actually wonder if childcare is like AI proof on this.

I mean, maybe that's one of the, the good column for childcare here.

Jen Bradwell what do you think?

>> All right.

A dizzying circle sounds like a sequel that I do not want to make for no one, but, um, but let me just make the connection actually between early childhood and AI.

So, you know, when you have quality early learning experiences, you get to kindergarten with, you know, a joy and a thirst for, for learning, um, you have better conflict resolution skills.

Um, we like the, the skills that are built in early childhood actually are better predictors of, of success when it comes to like reading and math outcomes than like it's, it's built through play and relationships and the kind of, um, imperfect, uh, interactions that we get to have with our fellow humans.

And if kids are exposed to a lot of AI in the early years and the kind of frictionless, like just, you know, tell me, tell me what I want, give me the experience that I want.

That's not going to me off at all.

Yeah.

Um, that actually is robbing kids of really invaluable skills that they need to be strong learners and, you know, have great creative minds that are going to be able to survive, you know, the AI calling of the workforce that's going to happen.

Um, so that's an argument to invest, you know, in, in quality early learning experience for, for experiences, for, for kids, um, so that they're going to have more marketable skills as they get older.

Um, but yes, there's, there's a whole other, uh, film that you're describing that's about, you know, tax policy and like redistribution of, of wealth that we need to do, um, that is a little, a little separate from, you know, the topic at hand as well.

I guess it's all related talking about public goods.

>> I mean.

>> It's become a society.

>> It's all becoming related.

Assembly member Clark how big is AI going to be as a political issue?

>> It is going to be a big issue.

And I get into this with my three children, uh, who two are in college and one is in high school.

And, um, and a husband who gets very passionate about AI, but equally to what Jen just described of how, how then more critically important it becomes to sort of AI our children, uh, so that we really do develop that brain in the way we want it to be developed, um, through, and the skills that kids learn that were already mentioned that will, you know, it is the quest and love of learning that is the best building block to a child.

Uh, success.

Um, regardless of, of where that goes and how it goes from there.

Um, so that is important, but AI has become a huge topic in New York.

It is hard as a state, right, to decide where we can and can't put guardrails, given that it's sort of a national and international, um, phenomenon.

Um, but you know, you look at even things like an autonomous car that people talk more and more about.

Well, the big backlash against it is it would take every driver who makes a living in New York City out of the industry.

And what does that look like and where do they go?

>> Your colleague Alex Boris has done a lot of work on this.

He has.

I can't get him back on the show.

He came on.

He's he's too big.

>> Well, he is running for Congress.

>> I know he's running for Congress.

Congress now.

I mean, you got to get him back on the show for me.

You got to put in a good word.

>> He did.

It.

>> Was funny.

It's my my kid.

My daughter brought her group up from school, a school group up.

And I had many legislators speak to them.

And their favorite was Alex.

And because they are all interested in AI and, and what it will mean.

And, uh, but sometimes when you think about it, it gets terrifying.

But then you also have to say, what can we do?

And where do we put the guardrails and how do we do things right?

>> Are your three kids worried about having jobs because of it?

>> I think they're they're working on their adaptability skills.

Um, so I think that that is also something you learn young, right?

You learn how to quickly adapt to things and change to things given circumstances, environments.

Um, so the more we can teach children that, um, but so I think some, you know, leaning into it more, it's a strength of theirs.

And then others who, um, are just trying to figure out how they can be in more people related industries that won't go away with AI.

>> Ann Marie Stephan, executive director of the Rochester Childfirst Network, is the idea that working with kids is going to be maybe AI proof?

Is that a selling point to get more people into the industry?

Because everything I read.

When you want an AI proof your future, the first thing I see is do you work directly with people?

That's a a good indicator that your job may be safer from AI.

Does that help?

>> That's a really interesting question.

Um, I think that it would, um, it's not something that we've addressed or talked about with, with applicants to date, but I, um, you know, I certainly hope that in my lifetime, um, we don't move to AI for something like early childhood and education, but, um, I do think that could potentially be a selling point to people.

Um, given how it's playing out, you know, right now and what some of the fears are.

So as we learn more about it and the implications, I think it's an important topic to talk about.

>> Anything you want to add?

Rose.

>> Uh, I feel the same.

Uh, just what everybody said.

The social emotional aspect of early childhood is critical.

And we're not going to get that through AI.

So hopefully we will keep this people centered.

>> All right, so it's, uh, in our last ten minutes here.

I do want to talk about what is happening in New York State.

We talked a little bit about this.

And certainly we've talked about this on recent shows.

But Assembly Member Clark is here.

And if you've missed any of this, I want to give you the floor and just let people know what's going on at the state level.

I do have to ask you briefly.

You're only one person in the assembly budget.

Not this week, probably.

>> Budget, not this week.

>> Okay.

>> Next week, I don't know.

I don't have a good answer.

>> Would you be surprised if there's a budget complete next week?

>> Yes.

>> Okay.

Okay.

Would you be surprised if we are in May without a budget?

>> Yes.

>> Okay.

Sometime before the end of April.

>> Yes.

Okay.

Uh, so, you know, childcare is getting a lot of attention.

Um, but again, our system is complex.

And actually, I was just at the childcare council this morning and we were touring and going through a lot and, and again, talking about the complexity of the system, which does give it more, some more challenges when you try to go to a universal system.

Um, but doesn't mean we can't do it.

Um, and I do think we can, um, obviously we have the child care assistance program, which the governor is committed to putting more money into both in New York City and out.

We have 35 counties outside of New York City right now that have waitlists or not reregistering families.

Um, these are all families who are eligible for the program.

But, you know, there isn't enough money in that county to pay for it.

So, I mean, the first thing I'm doing is I did just finally drop legislation, um, that will create the early childcare, the early child care fund, um, or I think it's early childhood fund.

Um, so instead of block granting childcare dollars out to each county to pay down to their families, they would still be the front door.

They would still, you know, get applicants and work with families to become eligible.

But their pressure to, you know, you shouldn't get childcare because you live in Monroe County, not Wayne County.

If you're eligible for childcare assistance, you should just get it.

Um, and so really making sure that the state pays it, even if the counties are still the front door for becoming eligible, I think it will go a long way to giving us tools as a state to increase the amount of time it takes to get childcare assistance and get through the application process, but also then gives us a statewide tool to start to look at how we enhance wages for the workforce, which we've talked a lot about today and how we maybe get to this true universal where everyone qualifies for some form of a voucher to use in childcare, whether or not they have other dollars to pay above it.

We can't get to universal child care if we have 57 counties in New York City, each running their own childcare system, we have to get to a system where the state's doing it.

Um.

Similarly, across the entire state.

So but we are working to again, get more money into the childcare assistance program.

The Senate put in their one House budget money for the workforce to use through things like stabilization grants, which we've done in the past.

Um, the Assembly did not and the governor did not.

I think ignoring the workforce issue and the pay issue for workforce is what's actually shrinking.

And really it's the elephant in the room when it comes to our next step in childcare and getting to universal child care.

And so by not doing it, we are really just doing a disservice because even if we get every single family eligible, there just won't be slots.

We have child care providers in our community right now who have classrooms sitting dormant.

It is a staff issue.

It is not a bricks and mortar issue.

Um, and so we have, we have to figure this issue out.

>> Okay.

Um, how confident are you that you're going to have enough cohesion in Albany to do it?

>> I, I'm not very confident, but I am hopeful.

>> Okay.

All right.

>> I'm always so full.

I mean, it's hard.

It's it's a big cost.

And that's why I think we have to figure out a dedicated revenue stream.

We can't just take it out of the general fund anymore.

We have to decide that childcare is too important.

It is a high price tag, but it pays for itself in multiple ways.

Um, and we have to find a dedicated revenue stream.

>> I was talking to somebody about a separate issue that we're going to cover soon on this program, about what stops things getting done in Albany.

And there's they said, look, there's this framework that pick a social issue, pick a fiscal issue, whatever it is, you know, it's this versus the Republicans.

And they said in this state, it's often a fight within the Democratic Party.

Among interest in on the D side, the Republicans are the minority party.

They don't have a lot of power in Albany, but Democrats tend to block Democrats from getting certain things done on different things.

Is that also what you're seeing in childcare?

>> I think there's a lot of support in childcare, even bipartisan in the state.

Um, but again, it's a money issue.

Where does it come from?

What an expense of what and how do you find the increased resources?

I mean, the price tag is anywhere from 10 to $15 billion.

And I think currently we're spending 2 to 3 billion a year.

So it's a big difference if we ultimately get to our goal of what we want and how do we get there and who pays for it?

>> Should we tax the ultra wealthy?

>> It's an idea.

I mean, it's a very popular idea.

I think we should no matter what, whether that's the dedicated revenue stream for me, we've really worked on a small, modest payroll tax for employers are large employers.

They're the ones who benefit greatly from a strong childcare workforce.

Um, and, you know, other states have tried it.

Vermont has a payroll tax.

I think it is a way to collectively pool money to solve a problem for our employers.

Um, and, and it creates equity.

So it doesn't matter whether you work in a restaurant or you work for Microsoft or whatever you, um, you would your employer, your payroll would, you know, contribute if the money that was contributed into this fund would give equal access to everyone.

>> So that's the mechanism you like best.

>> That is the mechanism I like best.

>> Okay, so you didn't dodge the question on the high earners tax too.

You'd like to see that.

>> No.

I mean.

>> I mean, talk about an issue that polls popularly.

It's shocking that we don't do it.

>> Okay.

All right.

So as we get ready to wrap here, Rachel Rosner, tell people what's going on tonight that you want people to be part of.

>> Yes.

Please come down for this free event.

Doors open at 6:00 at MCC downtown campus, right across the street here.

You can park for free in lot A if if you are driving there, um, we will have light refreshments, some community resources screen the film and then have a robust, uh, panel discussion led by our colleague Noelle Evans and the panelist, which I think is really important to say about this event tonight.

Are child care providers, people who are doing the work on the ground today.

Um, and I feel like it's really important that those are the voices that we are listening to.

Um, in the course of figuring out how to move forward.

>> The co-director of Make a Circle Jen Bradwell has been joining us.

And Jen, I want to thank you for your time and ask you in our last 30s here again, you can't give a perfect prescription.

Every state's different.

You've seen a lot in this country, but is there anything that surprises you the most about what we do or don't do with childcare?

>> Yeah.

You know, I was hoping to like, have more of a sense of like the secret sauce of what it takes to be an early educator, because I think the work that they do is just so it's, it's so amazing.

And what I've, what I've really learned is that the people who are called to do this work are >> Are extraordinary.

I think we're lucky to walk among them.

And if someone is called to this work, we should be lining up behind them with our public dollars because we all benefit so much from their care and support of not just like the kids and their care, but the young families at their time of life.

So there is no early care and education without early educators.

Love what the Assembly member was saying about raising wages, as well as supporting parents and wishing New York State good luck in their next efforts.

>> Jen Bradwell.

Congratulations on the film.

Thank you for making time for the program today.

>> Thank you so much for having me.

Hope you enjoyed the film tonight.

>> All right.

And Assembly member Sarah Clark, nice to see you.

Talk to you soon when there is a budget and there's more to talk about.

We'd love to have you back here.

Ah.

Thanks.

Rose Shufelt from the Child Care Council.

Thank you for being here.

>> Thank you for having me.

>> Ann Marie Stephan from the Rochester Childfirst Network.

Thank you for being here.

Thanks so much.

And Rachel Rosner, my colleague here at WXXI, great work as always.

Nice to see you in studio.

Thanks and thanks for sharing your personal experience as well.

We really appreciate that from all of us at Connections.

Thanks for finding this program wherever you do.

Thanks for sharing it with those you care about.

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