HOMELESSNESS HAS CITIES ACROSS AMERICA SEARCHING FOR SOLUTIONS.

SOME INCLUDING GRANTS PASS IN OREGON ARE TURNING TO PUNISHMENTS SUCH AS FINES OR EVEN ARREST FOR THOSE SLEEPING IN PUBLIC AREAS.

THAT PRACTICE CAN CONTINUE WONDER.

A RECENT RULING FROM THE U.S. SUPREME COURT.

THE DECISION IS EXPECTED TO HAVE A SWEEPING IMPACT ON POLICIES FOR THE UNHOUSED.

BUT ADVOCATES ARE HOPING P EFFECT WILL BE MUTED IN CHICAGO.

AND IN ILLINOIS.

JOINING US NOW WITH MORE ARE PATRICIA NEXT HODGES, THE DIRECTOR OF THE LAW PROJECT WITH THE CHICAGO COALITION FOR THE HOMELESS AND VIA ZOOM, BOB PALMER, POLICY DIRECTOR AT HOUSING ACTION, ILLINOIS.

THANKS TO EACH OF YOU AND SO PURCHASE.

I WOULD LIKE BEGIN WITH YOU FROM THE LEGAL PERSPECTIVE.

THIS OVERTURNS THE CASES FROM LOWER COURTS THAT HIT DEEMED JUST TO BE CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN?

YES.

THERE THERE'S BEEN A SERIES OF IN THE 9TH CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS WHICH COVERS THE WESTERN PUT THAT FOUND THAT BANNING PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE.

COULD BIG, CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT, ESPECIALLY IN COMMUNITIES WHERE THERE'S NO SHELTER AVAILABLE.

THAT WAS THE FACTS OF THE CASE.

THERE WAS NO SHELTER AVAILABLE.

AND IF PEOPLE HAD SO MUCH SO LITTLE AS A BLANKET TO SLEEP OUTSIDE, THEY COULD BE ARRESTED.

FIND HER TICKET AND THE LOWER COURTS FOUND THAT WAS CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT AND THEREFORE UNCONSTITUTIONAL UNDER THE 8TH AMENDMENT AND A BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF WHAT THE JUSTICES DECIDED IN OVERTURNING THAT.

YES, SO THAT THEY OVERTURNED THE DECISION.

SO THEY SAID THAT CITIES WOULD BE PERMITTED TO TAKE IT FINE ARREST PEOPLE FOR USING A OR ANYTHING LIKE A ROLLED UP SHIRT AS A PILLOW IN THESE BLANKET.

YEAH.

YEAH.

WHERE NO SHELTER IS AVAILABLE.

MORE ON THAT, I WANT TO READ A PIECE OF THE MAJORITY OPINION THAT WAS WRITTEN BY JUSTICE NEIL GORSUCH WHO WROTE HOMELESSNESS IS COMPLEX.

ITS CAUSES ARE MANY PEOPLE WILL DISAGREE OVER WHICH POLICY RESPONSES ARE BEST.

THEY MAY EXPERIMENT WITH ONE SET OF APPROACHES ONLY TO FIND LATER ANOTHER SET WORKS BETTER.

THEY MIGHT FIND CERTAIN RESPONSES MORE APPROPRIATE FOR SOME COMMUNITIES THAN OTHERS.

BUT IN OUR DEMOCRACY, THAT IS THEIR RIGHT.

SO, BOB, YOU HAVE LONG BEEN WORKING IN THE AREA THE HOMELESSNESS PREVENTION AND SOLVING THESE ISSUES.

IT IS COMPLEX.

IS THIS IN AN APPROPRIATE POTENTIAL SOLUTION FOR COMMUNITIES TO AT LEAST TRY?

WELL, I WOULD PUSH BACK A BIT AGAINST THE POSITION THAT THIS IS A COMPLEX PROBLEM.

THERE'S LOTS OF INDIVIDUAL REASONS.

LOTS OF INDIVIDUAL STORIES ABOUT PEOPLE EXPERIENCE HOMELESSNESS.

BUT IN THE END, WHAT EVERYONE WHO'S HOMELESS HAS IN COMMON IS THAT IS THEY CAN'T AFFORD HOUSING.

SO WE'RE VERY TROUBLED THAT THE SUPREME COURT DECISION IS ESSENTIALLY ALLOWING FOR CRIMINALIZATION OF WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY AN ECONOMIC PROBLEM CAUSED BY THE SHORTAGE AFFORDABLE HAS.

SO THAT THE ANSWER TO THIS THEN?

BECAUSE OF FOLKS, I CONCERNED WHAT ARE THE SOLUTIONS?

SO YOU'RE SAYING WHAT FINES?

THAT'S NOT THE ANSWER.

INSTEAD, RESOLVE EARLIER.

YES, OBVIOUSLY TO END HOMELESSNESS.

WE NEED TO CREATE AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND TREATED AS A HUMAN RIGHT.

BASIC HUMAN NEED IN OUR SOCIETY AS WE GET ON THE PATH TO GET THERE, WE REALLY NEED MORE CONSTRUCTIVE SOLUTIONS DEAL WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE AND SHELTERED AND HOMELESS FOCUSED ON SOCIAL SERVICES.

I'LL REACH.

THERE ARE SOME GOOD EXAMPLES IN ILLINOIS, FOR EXAMPLE, IN SUBURBAN COOK COUNTY HAS A RELATIVELY NEW PARTNERSHIP WITH METRA TO ADDRESS HOMELESSNESS ON THE TRANSIT, SYSTEM.

A ROCKFORD IS ANOTHER COMMUNITY WHERE THEY HAVE MORE OF A SOCIAL SERVICE.

PERSPECTIVE ON ADDRESSING UNSHELTERED ALMOST MS TREATING IT AS A CRIMINAL PROBLEM DOESN'T AND THE PERSON'S HOMELESSNESS.

AND IT CREATES A LOT OF ADDITIONAL COSTS FOR SOCIETY.

AND OBVIOUSLY THAT NEGATIVE IMPACT ON THE PERSON WHO IS PENALIZE THROUGH THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM IS REALLY NEGATIVE AND ACTUALLY MAKE SOME MORE COMPLICATED AND MORE DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO ACTUALLY AND THEIR HOMELESSNESS.

IF THEY'RE BEING TREATED LIKE A CRIMINAL IN THE SENSE THAT IF YOU'RE FINED, PRESUMABLY MAY NOT EVEN HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY THAT FINE, SITS YOU DOWN TO FOR THE PATH TO NOT BEING ABLE TO AFFORD HOUSING.

IS YEAH.

AND ALSO THE FINES CAN ACCUMULATE.

THERE CAN BE LATE FEES.

IT CAN IMPACT YOUR CREDIT REPORT WHICH COULD IMPACT YOUR ABILITY TO GET HOUSE AND THEN SIMILARLY HAVING AN ARREST OR CONVICTION ON YOUR RECORD CAN CAUSE A BARRIER COURSE, THIS IS ALL THE POLICY IN THE COMMUNITY IN OREGON.

BUT IS THIS MORE WIDESPREAD?

DO YOU THINK THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE MORE COMMUNITIES ADOPTING THIS SORT OF I HOPE THAT THAT IS DEFINITELY A CONCERN.

BUT I WOULD SAY A COUPLE OF THINGS TO THAT CONCERN.

ONE IS IT'S NOT EFFECTIVE FOR THE REASONS BAD HAS MENTIONED.

IT MAKES HOMELESSNESS WORSE BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE MORE DIFFICULTY GETTING HOUSE BECAUSE RECORD.

AND BECAUSE OF YES, YES.

SO THAT'S ONE IT'S EFFECTIVE THINGS LIKE HOUSING AND HOMELESSNESS.

PREVENTION ARE EFFECTIVE THE OTHER THING IS JUST BECAUSE THE SUPREME COURT HAS OVERTURNED ORDER DOESN'T MEAN CITY SHOULD JUST GO INTO A MODE OF BEING REACTIONARY AND CRIMINALIZING PEOPLE FOR BIOLOGICAL JUSTICE SODA BY HOURS SAID IN HER OPINION, THE VERY FIRST SENTENCE SLEEP IS A BIOLOGICAL NECESSITY, NOT A CRIME.

AND THAT PARTICULARLY IN CHICAGO AND ILLINOIS.

I THINK THERE IS A RECOGNITION CRIMINALIZATION IS NOT EFFECTIVE.

HOUSING FIRST APPROACH IS EFFECTIVE AND THAT'S THAT SEEMS TO BE THE DIRECTION PEOPLE HERE WANT SO BAPTISTE TURNING TO YOU.

IS THIS AN APPROACH THAT YOU COULD SEE PERHAPS NOT THE CITY OF CHICAGO, WHICH HAS SEEN IN INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF UNHOUSED INDIVIDUALS, PARTICULARLY, I BELIEVE WITH THE ADDITION OF MIGRANTS COMING IN SORT OF EXACERBATING THAT.

BUT IS THIS AN APPROACH AND YOU COULD SEE COMMUNITIES IN ILLINOIS ADOPTING OR THERE BE ANYTHING IN STATE LAW PREVENTING THAT?

WELL, ILLINOIS FOR MANY YEARS HAS HAD A ACTUALLY A HOMELESS BILL OF RIGHTS.

IT DOESN'T EXPLICITLY.

RESTRICT COMMUNITY IS FROM DOING AND CAMPING BANS.

BUT IT PROVIDES A LOT OF STRONG PROTECTIONS TO MAKE SURE LAW ENFORCEMENT AND OTHER GOVERNMENT AGENCIES ARE TARGETING PEOPLE A NEGATIVE WAY JUST BECAUSE THERE HOMELESS AS WELL AS PROTECTING THEIR PERSONAL PROPERTY AND ACTUALLY AT THE STATE LEVEL UNDER GOVERNOR PRITZKER.

ONE REALLY GOOD THING THAT'S HAPPENED IS THAT THE ILLINOIS DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES AND ILLINOIS OFFICE REDUNDANT AND HOMELESSNESS HAS WORKED CLOSELY WITH ILLINOIS STATE POLICE TO COME UP WITH A GUIDEBOOK FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT.

THAT INCLUDES MANY OF THESE MORE CONSTRUCTIVE SOLUTIONS, FOR EXAMPLE, MAKING SURE THE LAW ENFORCEMENT IS ALWAYS WORKING WITH SOCIAL SERVICE ORGANIZATIONS, TOO.

MAKE SURE YOU'RE DEALING WITH THE UNDERLYING ME THAT THE PERSON HAS AND NOT JUST PARALYZING THEM AND BY WE HAVE ABOUT 30 SECONDS LEFT TO.

SO JUST IS ILLINOIS DOING ENOUGH?

MORE MONEY HAS BEEN PUT TOWARD THIS.

BUT THE PROBLEM CONTINUES TO GROW.

ILLINOIS IS DOING MUCH MORE THAN IT HAD BEEN.

BUT NO, IT'S I'M NOT ENOUGH AT ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, STATE, GOVERNMENT AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.

WE REALLY NEED TO BE COMING FROM A RESPECTED AGAIN.

THAT HOUSING IS HUMAN RIGHT IS A BASIC HUMAN NEED AND COMMIT SUFFICIENT RESOURCES TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE HAS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT PERSPECTIVE.

PALMER AND PARTICIPATION AT THAT YOU ACTUALLY WRITTEN IN AND THE CAUSE BRIEF.

THAT WAS A PART OF FOR ANY LEGAL EAGLES OUT THERE.

CHECK THAT OUT AND WE'LL TRY TO POST THAT ON OUR