(upbeat music) (upbeat music continues) - Hey y'all, I'm Kiara Butler, and welcome to "Generation Rising" where we discuss hard-hitting topics that our diverse communities face every day.

And today's topic is homelessness and housing inequities and just what that means for so many communities here in Rhode Island.

I'd like to welcome our guest today.

Terri Wright is a writer and community organizer with DARE, the Direct Action for Rights and Equality Organization, and Eric Hirsch, an activist and professor of sociology at Providence College.

For the past three decades, he's researched homelessness and is currently the interim chair of the Rhode Island Homeless Advocacy Project.

Welcome to the both of you.

How are you doing today?

- Thank you, thank you, great.

- Thanks for having us.

- Yes, your energy feels really good today.

All right, so there are a lot of misconceptions around homelessness.

Can you tell us more about the root causes?

- So the root cause is really the fact that the housing market isn't serving close to a majority of households in Rhode Island because the rents are so astronomically high.

I think the housing market is built and operates to provide profits for people, the landlords and real estate owners.

It's not built to do what you would think it's supposed to do, which is to provide a roof over the head of everyone who lives here in Rhode Island.

So inevitably, when you have $2,000 a month rents for a two bedroom apartment, you're gonna have people who fall off of the ladder of trying to get housing completely.

And those are people who wind up homeless.

Often they'll double up with friends or families.

If you think about it, that's just about what everyone would do if they lose their housing, find people, friends or relatives, family members to help them out.

But a lot of times those situations don't last due to overcrowding or the fact that people can't contribute money to the rent or mortgage and then they get kicked out of that situation and then they're on the street.

So this has gotten much worse with regard to COVID because COVID means you can't live in an overcrowded situation.

It meant that we had to reduce the number of people in our shelters so that people didn't get sick.

For a while when the federal government was paying for it, the state helped out by putting people in hotels.

Once that federal money ran out, then people were back on the street.

So we have hundreds of people living outside.

The latest number is about 330 people.

We think that's an underestimate for sure, but we just don't find it acceptable that people are living outside year round for the first time in the state's history, that kind of number.

And we're gonna keep working until that's no longer the case.

We will get roofs over the heads of people no matter what we have to do to make that happen.

- And Terri, what would you say about those root causes?

- I think it's just the way the world was built.

There's always been inequities, racism, systemic racism.

It's just getting worse now.

People get displaced by fires.

Evictions are happening.

There are no tenant protections right now.

So that just adds to this already growing list of unhoused folks.

There's no eviction record sailing either.

So if you're getting evicted for non-payment because landlords every 30 day, excuse me, every 30 days, legally they could raise the rents.

- Really?

- Yes.

- Even with a lease?

- Even with a lease, yes.

Tenants are being priced out, and in court it's due to non-payment, majority of those evictions.

So you take that into consideration.

You think about our teenagers, 18 year olds who age out of their homes, landlords don't wanna rent to them either.

They don't have enough credit.

They need someone to sign for them.

So there's a mixture of everything out there on the streets right now.

- And excuse my ignorance, because I thought a lease was like a protection that you signed for a certain number of years.

So what does tenant protection look like?

- So tenant protections would look like, first and foremost, you would have your year lease or two year lease actually campaigning for rent stabilization for Providence at their tenant protections.

Also, your landlord would have to keep up the apartment, make sure it's clean, safe, dignified housing.

Also with tenant protections, you would be able to take your landlord to a rent board to really mitigate mitigate the problems that you may be having.

Because every landlord tenant issue shouldn't result in an eviction.

And usually that's what happens.

Also, tenant protections also is a great way with landlord tenant mitigation to strengthen landlord tenant relationships.

We know that landlords think of their tenants and being a landlord as a business.

But when you have families that are living in your properties, why not have it like, I don't know, consider them family.

Just for the love of the job.

Landlords should love their job or why be a landlord?

So why are you evicting your at tenants?

Also, a lot of times landlords say "hey, I'm gonna move there, you have to get out".

A lot of families are being faced with that right now.

So in addition to like fires, someone could just pass away and the family can't keep the bills up.

There are a lot of reasons why homelessness has grown in Rhode Island.

My thing is I believe there'll always be some homeless people, but we don't have to live in crisis.

And that's really what's happening right now.

We need to get out of crisis, but that's not happening fast enough.

- And Eric, you talked about the numbers a little bit in Rhode Island.

You said there was around 300 people right now.

Has that number like increased over the years?

Decreased over the years?

- So the year before COVID, we do something called the point in time count.

And we do it at the end of January to make sure we're limited in the number of people who might be living outside.

So in 2019, that number was 1,055, and 71 people were outside, that's 71 too many because in the middle of winter, no one should be living outside anywhere in New England.

So the latest point in time count, in January of 2023, we actually now have 1,810 people homeless.

That's the total.

And 336 are living outside, which is almost five times the number that we had back in 2019.

This isn't Los Angeles, this isn't San Francisco or Portland or Seattle.

We are not going to accept having hundreds of people living outside year round.

People will freeze to death.

And in the summer, people might die of heat stroke.

We just need to make sure that everyone has at least a roof over their head.

I think I'm with Terri that, yes, there are going to be people who are homeless, and for some of the reasons that she was talking about, but we don't need people living homeless long term.

That's the main thing we're talking about is people should not be having to live outside for a month, for a year, sometimes five years, 10 years.

That's unacceptable.

This system that we have here is created by human beings.

It's not a natural system.

And so what's the minimum that we should have in our community?

One of the things is that people at least have a home and food and healthcare, childcare.

Those are the minimums.

And we're falling short of that because our system is based on the highest profitability for people.

Like I said, real estate developers and landlords.

So we have to have government intervention in this system to make sure that we have the minimum a safety net.

People think we have a safety net.

We do not.

We do not have a safety net.

I'll just give an example.

So a lot of people who are homeless are disabled.

Either they have mental health issues or they have physical health issues.

And they'll go to a doctor and the doctor will certify that they can't work.

So then you get on something called supplemental security income.

That's our safety net.

But guess how much you get when you're on that?

- [Kiara] How much?

- $800 a month, and you don't automatically get housing.

Generally you do get health insurance, you get Medicaid.

But try finding an apartment with all of the money that you have for the month for everything you're supposed to buy, $800.

You can't even get an apartment for that.

So we don't have a safety net.

Those people, they can pay something, maybe $200 a month.

Okay, that's fine.

So that shows that they're paying for their housing.

But those people are often the ones who are out there on the street or in our shelter system.

A very large percentage have some form of disability that makes it difficult or impossible for them to work.

- And so what are you all doing in your your work to combat this?

Because it is an issue.

It's a problem that we've had, and we're gonna continue to have.

How are you all mitigating that?

- I'm actually like a housing organizer of DARE's Tenant and Homeowners Association where we advocate for stability, housing stability, housing justice.

Really we advocate to stop gentrification, at the onset of coronavirus, we have a rent stabilization policy in which we are going to be launching very soon, maybe in like another two weeks or so.

I don't wanna put a date on it.

Because we need rent stabilization in Providence and we need it now.

There's no housing stability.

None at all.

Landlords have formed a pact.

They're against rent stabilization.

- And I was just gonna ask you, how do you enforce that for landlords to follow the rent stabilization policy?

- So for us, it would need to pass through city council.

And we actually have three city council members already without the launch.

So when it passes through city council, then it would have to be enacted through city council.

I can't give you an answer on how that's going to be done, but almost like the source of income discrimination that we got passed.

And that was just great, great outreach and testimony to get it passed.

But that was needed as well because landlords were turning away tenants who had Section 8 vouchers, so this is historic here.

And I'm all over the place in my mind right now because our city would rather rehab the Superman building for some luxury housing, upscale housing than fix this housing crisis.

And I would have rather this housing crisis be fixed before any rehabbing for upscale and luxury housing.

Because that's what's happening right now.

We have an influx of hotels and luxury housing.

And it's like Monopoly is being built around everyone who doesn't have enough money to pay those high rents.

I'm actually like a paycheck away from being homeless and unsheltered.

So we really, really need tenant protections right now.

But we also need like eviction sailing.

Like I had a question, maybe I could ask you a question.

Do you know of the first eviction?

So I searched, I went to the Providence library, and the first eviction actually was the Trail of Tears and removing indigenous folks from their land.

But the real question is I'm just wondering how far back in court documents evictions go because there's someone out there unhoused that probably didn't get rehoused due to having an eviction because it's like having a criminal record and it follows you around for the rest of your life, which is dehumanizing.

It's unfair, it's not right.

It's just an eviction.

And a lot of evictions are ill gotten, landlords are, they're like lawyers almost in court.

They have a lot of power.

- What would you say you're doing in your work?

- I just want to add that the person who's most likely to be homeless in Rhode Island is an indigenous person, Native American, they're six or seven times more likely than a white person to be homeless.

And black people are about four or five times more likely.

And Latinx people, maybe two or three times more likely.

So this definitely affects people of color more than it affects white people.

Although it affects white people too just to be clear.

Yeah, I mean in terms of the unsheltered crisis here, that's the way we see this, this large increase in the number of people who are outside.

We started protesting this two years ago.

So this has been a two year campaign of particularly trying to get the governor, Governor McKee to understand the importance of this.

And as Terri said, the fact that this is a crisis, if you're flooded out or burned out, you immediately get housing, you immediately get a roof over your head.

If you're defined as homeless, then it's seen as your fault.

And it's the fact that you're mentally ill and don't know that you need an apartment or you're a drug addict or various other forms of stigma that affect people who are homeless.

There are a lot of drug addicts with roofs over their heads.

If you become a drug addict, first of all, you can't control your use of that substance.

That's what addict means.

But you don't automatically become homeless.

There's still a lot of people who manage to stay in their own apartment.

So that's not what causes homelessness.

It's the rent.

It's the fact that you can't pay the rent and that your doubled up situations have been, you know, you've used them up.

So we've done multiple protests going back years, and I think we finally have gotten the governor's attention.

He, to his credit, he fired the original housing secretary, Josh Saul, who was incompetent and who just wasn't listening to us and doing what he needs to do.

The new housing secretary, Stefan Pryor is trying to do what he needs to do, which is to make sure that people have shelter and that that shelter leads ultimately to permanent housing.

Often homeless people need services.

So we call permanent supportive housing.

Permanent housing that's subsidized so they can afford it with whatever services they may need to make sure they can stay in that housing.

That's really the solution to long-term homelessness.

Some people may not need services and then they often need deeply subsidized housing.

Let's say you're a single mother and you're on a public assistance, you're getting maybe nine or $10,000 a year.

Sometimes even less than you would get.

This is what drives me crazy.

You get less as the biological mother than you would get as a foster mother.

You get more money for fostering a child than you get for having a child.

Again, it's the same thing.

It's the stigma that's associated with being on public assistance, particularly for single mothers.

So I think finally, the housing secretary and his staff understand the need to get people into shelter and then move them into permanent housing.

But we've got a problem.

And that problem is the not in my backyard phenomenon.

And it always goes like this.

So this is mayors, city counselors, residents, neighborhood residents where we're going to put a shelter or permanent supportive housing or deeply subsidized housing.

They say "oh, I care so much about helping homeless people", but, there's always this but, this is the wrong place for this.

And there are multiple possible reasons why people say that but it always comes down to that.

But guess what, if everyone in every neighborhood and every mayor and every city counselor or town counselor says "but you can't do it here", then we can't do it anywhere.

And that's the situation that the housing secretary is in right now.

He's not getting any help from the towns and cities.

And what we need, and I'll say this to everyone who's watching, we need yes in my backyard.

If you care about people being homeless, you have to be willing to welcome people.

They're your neighbors, they're your family members.

Those are the people who are homeless.

They just can't afford these ridiculously high rents.

You need to welcome them.

- What would you say is considered the affordable housing rate?

Like what's the requirement for something to be considered affordable housing?

- Well, Terri was talking about the Superman building.

So this I think is unacceptable.

There's so many newspaper articles or people who talk about this and say "well we're making some of the units affordable".

Well by affordable they mean, let's say you have a four person household, 70 to $80,000, you know, this 80% of the area median, that's what's called affordable.

Well that's not affordable for half of the people who live in the state, half of the households.

So you have to be careful about that.

If you want to use area median, so that's the median household income for the state of Rhode Island, that's around $70,000.

So we talk about 30% of area median.

So people making maybe $20,000 a year or 15% of area median.

So that's people making even less.

That could be people on public assistance.

They need housing too.

You need rents at $200 a month for that mother on public assistance or someone on supplemental security income.

Disabled people who can't work and a doctor has certified that.

Again, I'm just saying that.

So we really need that kind of housing, permanent supportive housing with supportive services for people.

And it has to be something that's truly affordable for them.

So we need rents at $200 a month for those people.

They're willing to pay that, even though that's a really high proportion of their extremely low incomes, they're willing to pay that.

And we have a lot of people who are in situations like that.

We just need more of it.

- And Terri, what would you say our viewers can do to take action?

- Come out, come out, show up, support policy at the State House when bills come out, bills come out on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

I would say for Providence residents, reach out to your city council members and tell them we need rent stabilization, call, fill up the answering machines, come join DARE's Tenant and Homeowners Association and campaign with us.

But just don't stay dormant.

Don't do nothing.

This goes out to all tenants.

All tenants stand to be unhoused, and it can happen in the blink of an eye.

And there's no urgency in this housing crisis.

No urgency.

Open up a building.

Even if you have to call National Guard, treat it like a natural disaster because homeless folks are living in a state of emergency.

That's their state of emergency.

Think of the unhoused folks who have to sleep outdoors.

So I hear you when you say Stefan Pryor is doing this best, not only am I an organizer, but I'm a community member.

So I actually live it.

And when I say I'm one paycheck away from being housing insecure, I am.

Where's the porta-potties around the city?

I mean, you have families out there.

Where's hand washing stations?

Essential items?

Like if we, if they, because there's no urgency going on, but why does the community have to wait outdoors for housing to be built?

For housing to become available?

I just, I don't see any urgency around it.

I don't see anything happening.

Summer's coming, open up a school.

Like there's things that can be done.

Nobody should be forced to live outdoors.

- For people who want to join you in your work and join you in your work, how do we stay in touch?

- So I don't own DARE.

We are located at 340 Lockwood Street in Providence, Rhode Island behind the Burger King on Broad Street.

My email is twright@daretowin.org, Or call (401) 351-6960 to come join this fight for housing justice.

Housing is health.

How are we gonna care for ourselves without housing?

Join this fight for housing justice.

- [Kiara] And what about you, Eric?

How can we stay in touch?

- So I just wanna support the rent stabilization program in Providence.

And so I would reinforce what Terri said about calling your city counselor and say we wanna support rent stabilization.

That's really important.

And overall, wherever people live in Rhode Island, call your local town counselors or city counselors, call your mayor.

They get tons of calls by people saying not in my backyard.

We need people to say yes in my backyard.

So call and say we support whatever you need to do to end this crisis.

As Terri said, it's a crisis.

There should be urgency.

This should be the exception to not in my backyard.

This should be the yes in my backyard.

And I have an email address too.

It's ehirsch@providence.edu.

And you can come and join us at the protest that we continue to do to try to get action on this.

You can come to the Tenant and Homeowners Association meetings on Tuesday nights.

- 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM, or the RIHAT meetings at DARE also on Fridays from 11:00 AM to 12:00 PM - 340 Lockwood Street.

So that is the center of our organizing effort.

- Thank you so much for providing that information.

We have run out of time, that went by fast, right?

- It always goes fast.

- It always goes by fast.

- But you can watch past episodes anytime on watch.ripbs.org and be sure to follow us on Facebook and Twitter for the latest updates.

And I want you all to leave your mark as well.

We've started a tradition here, so if you can grab some chalk and head on over to the board, you can sign away.

- Thank you.

- Thank you.

- Thank you so much.

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