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Starting in the late 1800s, horror films have given birth to countless subgenres.

These films may incorporate psychological terror, stories of terrifying monsters, or mystery thrillers that use atmosphere to build suspense.

Tonight, we bring back our favorite filmmakers specializing in this genre to talk about how he uses some of these techniques in his films.

I'm so happy you're joining us.

From Los Angeles.

This is KLCS PBS.

Welcome to Everybody with Angela Williamson, an innovation, Arts, education and Public affairs program.

Everybody with Angela Williamson is made possible by viewers like you.

Thank you.

And now your host, doctor Angela Williamson.

Dustin is back from another season so that we can walk through the entire horror genre together.

Dustin.

Thank you so much for coming back and helping me with this episode.

You know, the pleasure's mine.

Thank you.

Well, I thought what we would do is just educate a little bit of our viewers a little more in depth about the horror genre.

And then when we come back after the second segment, you can give us a masterclass.

okay.

Perfect.

Well, here's my question.

Why are we so fascinated with horror films?

And then you can use your personal story to tell.

Answer that question.

I think really the overarching answer is just, it's a safe scare.

We thrive off of thrills and being frightened, but it's in the comfort of your own home.

It's a little bit different from going on a roller coaster, because there's that element of accident that could happen or, you know, real life danger.

But when you're in the comfort of your home, you know that it's pretend you can shut it off if it's too much and you can do it.

You can take it in at your own level.

I love that answer.

Okay, so we're taking it in at our own level.

But there's several different what I mentioned in the teaser subgenres, two horror films.

So in this case, what do you think is the most popular or does it just depend on what's happening around us to determine which subgenre audiences like the best?

Well, I think films just like fashion or trends, we kind of go through different eras.

Things in films seem to be a cycle about a 20 year cycle.

Every 20 years you'll see remakes of movies from 20 years ago and the same thing sort of repeating with each generation.

And so I really think that that's a big part of it.

And so in this case, you found your passion in this genre.

And my question to you is because I'm sure before you did horror films, you were probably a lover of horror films.

Yes.

And but when you're a filmmaker, it's so hard to find your niche.

How did you do that?

You know, it's one of those things that I think that it finds you because when you're first starting out, you're just you're just trying it.

You're picking up a camera.

You're getting together with the people you know and trying to make something.

And really, the end result of after multiple films is sort of what your style becomes.

You know, I think everybody, when they start out, they want to be Steven Spielberg.

They want to make award winning movies, and then you go make one and you're not Steven Spielberg.

And, you know, you start to learn your own style and you adapt to what you're good at.

And that's sort of what develops.

You know, I'm known for my B films because I like the fun and entertainment factor of these kinds of movies.

I think we watch them to shut our brains off and just enjoy what we're watching.

So I'm kind of just known for that doing high concept, low budget films where it's a dinosaur movie, but we're using CGI for the dinosaur.

Which is really interesting that I love that you brought up B films.

I mean, as a person who teaches mass communication, this is another way that we can educate our viewers as well, because they say Ronald Reagan was popular for he was an actor.

Yeah, he was in horror films.

Yeah.

He was.

Yes.

So what are B films and how have we?

I mean, you talk about trends.

B films really came out again because of digital filmmaking.

So how how does that happen?

Well, I think B films are just the answer to a film's, you know, just like there's always going to be the smaller tiers after the big thing.

I think eight films is the stuff you see in theaters, the stuff everybody knows about the big actors, but there's other actors that aren't huge name actors that still need work.

There's other directors that still need to make films, and that's where B films come in.

That's stuff that's for streaming, direct to video, stuff that's usually done on like a more localized level.

But those are the kind of films that resonate with people on a more personal level.

They're not they're not unachievable A-list blockbusters.

They're relatable stories.

They're they're in situations of scenarios that we can identify with as people.

And I think that's what keeps B films relevant this whole time.

Well, and not only are they relevant, but I really admire you because of your social media presence.

And so with these kind of films, you can get such a loyal following that I mean, you just keep making these films.

And so how important is that to a filmmaker that might want to start off just like Dustin started out?

I think it's it's everything I, you know, I owe almost my entire career to Facebook.

It's where I made all the contacts.

It's where I found my fan base.

You know, I think that people don't really think about that aspect.

We talked about that before with social media, that that's half of the work.

You can be a great director, but if nobody sees your movie, then what does it really matter?

You know, and the thing with B films is that because they're essentially fast and cheap, they become addictive for the fans.

You know, I make 20 movies a year, some some years, and people can't get enough of it because they get used to the style.

And then it's like every month they need another one.

They need their fix their B movie fix.

And I think that's what separates those from those A-list films.

And a lot of times those A-list films take years.

They do.

And that's another thing too.

And they're also, you know, two three hour epics and they're not something you can easily consume in just like an hour's time.

And so my question to you is when you're I want to stay on this because with your films, you have brought back some of like the most beloved actors and actresses that we haven't seen in years, or we've seen them somewhere and we thought, whatever happened to them?

And you bring them back.

So how do you connect with these actors and actresses based on what you're doing?

Because you are really you are your powerhouse one film after the next.

So how do you reach these other these actors and actresses that we haven't seen but come back and they're in a Dustin film?

I think it just comes back to that.

I have heart in it and I'm a fan to begin with.

You know, a lot of these people that I've reached out to to be in my films for people I watched growing up, you know, and maybe they're not working as much anymore because of those types of films are being made.

But if I'm here to make them, I want to be able to give them those opportunities again.

And the people that watch my films are fans of those older films like Bring Stevens is someone she's in a lot of my movies.

She's known for Slumber Party Massacre, so people of fans of that film will always seek her out in my movies.

So there's a lot of that too.

You get those names to really bring in a bigger crowd to you.

And I think with the B films it's much easier.

Obviously within a film there's agents and managers and big payrolls, but when you're talking on this level, you can talk to them as just a person, you know, and if if they enjoy the work and a lot of them do, they come back time and time again with me.

I think that that just makes it happy for everybody.

You know, they get work and I get to work with somebody that's iconic to me.

And you can tell when they're in those roles that, I mean, we may not have seen them for a while, but they're still great at what they do, really.

And so you're giving them the way that they can shine through.

Exactly.

And so my question to you is and I mentioned a bunch of subgenres and which subgenre works well for you and why do you choose it and walk us through?

How do you start brainstorming to get that storyline together?

Okay, there's kind of like two main ones.

Thank you.

I have my own company, X entertainment, and those are more focused on like the micro-budget stuff.

We do a lot of slasher films and anthologies, stuff that can be produced and turned around cheaply.

And then I have other companies that work for like Wild Eye Releasing, where we do the high budget or low budget, high concept stuff, which is essentially a slasher film, but you're putting in a giant murder hornet or a T-Rex chasing people.

And those are interesting because they're a lot different to shoot, because almost all of the time you don't have the villain in the shot.

You know, the people running from something that's not really there.

But that, in a way makes it a lot more fun because it's just sort of wild and crazy and loose and like, I had the CGI guy all just adds up, man, don't worry about it, you know?

And I think that just really makes it fun.

And so I think it's important though to if you're doing so many films to really be varied, like I try, I think I might have mentioned before, I want to kind of touch on every subgenre that I can within the horror genre, so that I can really experience everything from documentaries to slasher films to the CGI movies to ghost movies.

I think that that keeps my work interesting as well.

I love that.

So before we go to our break up, because when we come back, you are going to lead your own master class.

All right.

But before we go to the break, because I forgot to mention we you have another movie out.

Of course I have another movie.

Yes.

Well, yeah.

Well.

This is the.

Current.

So relevant to come on the show because I know you always have some that's up for me, so don't trick or treat alone.

Yes.

How did you come up with this concept?

And then also to walk me through the concept to your storyline, choosing the right actors.

And you may have already had those in mind through the entire part to win you how you decide to distribute it.

Okay, so this movie in particular is very interesting because it's a stylized film.

It's a period piece set in 1990, and the film itself is presented as if it's a TV recording off of TV in the 90s.

So it's got fake commercial breaks.

It cuts in at the end of the credits of the previous show, and it does a whole presentation.

So the point of this specifically is nostalgia.

It's supposed to feel like 90s Halloween.

It's a series of films I've done.

They all take place on this fictional channel called ship TV channel six, and I think that that's important with the films to create a universe or a world.

So since this is the fourth film, they go in order.

The first one I did was called Wrong Side of the tracks took place in 1987.

That it did Runaway Nightmare from 88 asylum, one of the devil was 1989 and this is 1999.

It's the last one.

So I went into it kind of knowing exactly what I wanted, that I was trying to be very careful.

The way it was shot has to be set in 1990.

We can have modern technology, cell phones or cars or anything like that.

So that was one of the challenges.

But ultimately that was what was made it really fun.

So I got people, like I mentioned, bring Steven cheesiness.

I got people that are familiar to the era of then, so it would feel like a classic film with those people in it.

And even I mean, we're talking about we haven't talked about distribution yet, but, when you set a period piece in the 1990s, how do you go through and make sure that you're using everything that was from that time period?

Because sometimes you do see those movies, and I don't know if it's intentional that the director puts in, okay.

That's something.

Now, I don't know.

It was from the it's like us who remembers the 90s.

Yeah.

Or if they do it as part of maybe it's part of the satire of it all.

So.

Well that's that was kind of all of the work of this was making sure in the pre-production that all of the props we had, all of the backgrounds, all of the settings, we're going to be at least nondescript enough that you wouldn't be able to tell what year it is.

You know, you're doing it inside of people's houses and stuff like that.

It's a little bit easier when you're out on the street.

It's a lot tougher, and one of the challenges with this one was I shot it three months ago so that it would be out in time for Halloween, which meant none of the Halloween stuff was out in stores yet or anything.

We're trying to set it on Halloween, so that was a big challenge with this.

Like, it took the life of me to find some candy corn in August.

Like it just nobody has it.

Not even Amazon.

I mean, I could have been like two days before the shooting.

Oh, I need candy corn.

Where am I got my corn?

Yes.

Okay.

No.

Yeah.

You can't run to CVS, right?

They just don't have it.

So that was definitely one of the challenges with us.

Oh wow.

And what was also interesting too is because you listed this, as it was a series when you started the first horror film based on, you know, 1987.

Right?

Did you know that it was only going to be four in the series, and then you would stop and move on?

Or do you just play that by ear?

What I that's what I consider testing the waters.

Usually with the first films, I usually have a franchise in mind.

With everything I do, I want to make sure that it's something that could at least last three films.

So if it's popular, we could do a couple more.

The first one was very popular, it got streaming, it got major releases, and I was like, I should just do this every year and just have it be each next year, you know?

And so I didn't want to overdo it.

You know what?

I have ten of them.

I think 3 or 4 is a good number because then you really tell the story without wearing it out.

Which is really interesting because I, we're talking about movies and I guess Jamie Lee Curtis is doing the last of her series, and I, I saw that promotion and I thought, oh, I didn't know it was about this.

Yeah.

So it was really interesting to ask you, when do you know to stop that and then start?

I think you get kind of halfway through.

You start to get a feel of it.

Like with the May Hook Massacre films by number four, I was like, we're going to do like 7 or 8.

I feel like, you know, and then you can kind of keep that with a story arc in mind when you're writing the scripts that this is going to lead into this one that leads into this one.

So it does help if you know a little bit that you plan to do that.

And when you have a story arc like that, you also bring back a lot of the same characters.

So you have to know that you have a stable like actor, an actress that people.

You can trust.

The trust that can.

Yes.

Which is really important.

And with a series two, like, you'll see the reaction to certain characters like, oh, that character was really popular.

Let's bring her back in the next one, you know, and so you can that's what social media is really good for gauging.

And because you have that direct interaction with the fans to find out what they want, what they like.

So we are about to go to our break.

And one of the things we didn't talk about is distribution, which is really important to what you do.

So I definitely want to talk about that.

But when we come back, maybe what we can do is because I wanted you to walk us through a masterclass, maybe what you can do is, as part of your master class, talk about distribution, maybe the pros and cons of it.

Okay, okay.

Thank you so much.

So hold on there.

You already have what you want to say in this masterclass right?

Yes I'm ready.

Okay.

So I'm going to toss it to the break and then we'll come back.

It sounds.

Great.

Come back as Dustin walks us through the process of creating horror films and entertaining audiences.

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Welcome back to our Horror Film Masterclass with master teacher Dustin.

Dustin, thank you so much.

Thank you so much again for doing this.

Oh I really appreciate it.

This is really fun.

But I love that we gave we talked about this week.

We gave our audience just a little taste of this movie.

but to start from the very beginning and teach us how we can be our own small Dustin from concept to distribution.

All right.

So basically this is how I do it.

Obviously audiences will want to interpret it their own way, maybe make their own changes.

it always starts with the concept.

The idea.

What do I want to make?

With that will come the artistic vision of the visuals that I want, which creates the poster.

The poster is crucial to put out on social media.

If you want to gain interest or money, because you have to have something to show for what you're about to do.

Trying to just tell people in today's day and age, oh, I have this idea.

Nobody cares if you have a poster that shows you've already put work into it.

So you start the poster first.

Poster is always first.

It's the first announcement of that.

The project's even happening.

I like that, okay.

So you start with the poster.

Typically what I've been doing the last couple of years, obviously during the pandemic times were tough.

And so what I started doing was selling producer credits for the film.

And that's how I'm raising the funds.

So we sell we offer different prices for Associated and executive producers.

We have a time limit.

Then based on what we raise, we know what we can use for our resources.

So from that point forward, you figure out the locations, the amount of actors you can have and what the story is you want to tell.

And at that point it becomes very self-explanatory.

As far as like you just want to set up the schedule.

I break down the shot schedule.

Most of my films are shot in 2 to 4 days total, so I always write them with that in mind.

A lot of central locations, not a lot of moving around, and not a very large cast, especially if you're first starting out or you're making a low budget horror film.

You don't need 20 people to tell the story.

You can do it with five.

That'll save on the time for setups, and it'll save on your budget.

And then once you do that, because I'm the editor myself, which I do recommend, directors learning how to edit because it will save so much time and money.

Yes.

And money.

Then, you know, you only want to shoot what you're going to use in the edit.

We don't waste time doing ten takes of different things that we'll never make the edit I know exactly what I want, it's written out in the shot list and that's what we do.

Typically.

Then after a day of shooting, I will go home and I will put that day's footage together, because usually if you're only filming for a few hours a day, it doesn't take that long to edit the raw footage together.

That way, by the last day of shooting, you have all the pieces together and you just snap it together and you have a rough cut already.

From that point forward, you watch the rough cut, make any notes, any changes, make those and it'll get soundtracked.

After that, the movie's done, usually with distribution I have.

Like I mentioned before, I have two different methods.

Sort of.

If it's a film for hire, I just turn the movie in.

That includes the mini track, which is like a music and effects track that you have to have separate in addition to the film and then the dialog, you deliver that and your work is done with my with the movie like this, I'm distributing through SxSW entertainment.

So I use a site called anarchy, which is a self-publishing site.

So I upload the files, I author a Blu-ray at home, and I upload the Blu ray files to it, and then they create the product and they're made on demand.

It costs me nothing.

I only make profit on every sale, so there's no investment in multiple copies being made.

So there's such a low risk with these films, almost everything's a profit if you keep it within your margin.

So we start with the movie poster because that is how we gain the attention of our audience.

We gain their interest, and then once we've done that is where is when we can start, financing it.

And that's where you can start getting your funders.

And then based on the credits, you decide how much that they pay and be part of that too.

Now, my question for you, in that phase, you have executive producer and you have producers.

Associate and executive.

Sorry.

Yes, executive and associate producers.

are they in name only or do they have any say in what Dustin does?

You always, maintain creative control?

Yeah.

I think it's so important as a filmmaker to remain have all that creative control, because that's who you are and what the vision is you want to put out when you start allowing other opinions, it becomes muddled, you know?

And there's always an understanding with the producers that it is in name only, but often to make it fun, like with this movie, all the producers that gave money got to be a missing person on a poster in the film.

So they also get like an actor credit.

They can see themselves in the movie, and then that might encourage them just to toss the money, just to be in a film.

You're so creative that, okay, so now that was pre-production and also in pre-production to you're writing a script, but it sounds like what you're doing because you already know you only have 20, 24 to 48 hours to or.

To do like principal.

Yeah.

Yes.

So in that case, at that point, are you you said you are putting together a shot list when you are doing that because you are I know you are doing the editing, but are you hiring out to have someone shoot that?

Are you working with them to create that shot list so that you're maximizing your time, knowing that you only have 2 to 3 days to produce?

I mean.

Well, this is yeah, this is where it gets a little touchy because, I do both.

I have films I've shot completely on my own, and then I have films that I hire someone or have a DP named Eric Russo who does a lot of my films.

He actually shot this one.

And I think with with a DP, it's so important that you know them well and that you have the same artistic vision.

You understand what you're what you're bringing to the table because you don't want to be on set with someone that doesn't understand what you're trying to shoot.

And they have their own ideas of what should go on.

That's leads to clashing and delays.

And then we have a problem.

So it's really important that if you can't find that DP, that you can work really well with, and it's important to learn how to operate a camera, because especially with the amount I'm doing, I can't have a DP for all 20 movies, you know, that gets costly.

So it's almost like every other one.

I'm like, I'm going to shoot this one myself.

We're doing this in like a day, you know?

So and that just ends up happening.

That's the reality of it.

Well, you're you're shooting.

And I said one day or two days or three days, we know it's a short period, but you have actors and actresses that you're bringing in now.

Normally they come in beforehand and they do maybe do an a reading or anything like that.

So how do you handle that part of the process because you're moving so quick you might not have days before.

So how do you handle that?

you know, it's about building a group of actors that you can trust and can count on for things, you know, like you want to have a real big pool of people that you can call from that are going to be trustworthy.

And so usually when I'm writing the scripts, I know who's going to play the part, who I would plan to reach out to.

Most of the time, they'll accept the role, you know?

so that really helps.

But I think it's a lot harder doing films on this level when you don't know who the actors are going to be.

Casting calls is sort of my weakness because I already know who I want to have the role, I already know what we're doing, and it's a whole, like you mentioned, a whole other process to audition people and go through different things.

And half the time they're not local.

And when I'm shooting something next week and it's going to be a two day thing, I don't want them to fly from Arkansas to come do this.

You know, I'm like, I'll just get someone from L.A. so that usually just works out better in the favor of these types of films.

And then so we talk about that, we talked about the production schedule.

Now you are.

And I think that's wonderful that you do your own editing.

Yeah.

when you were doing your editing, it sounded like when you talked about this process that when you're done editing, you do packaging as well.

And I wanted to know, can you talk a little more in detail about the packaging?

Because that would be new to people about the packaging process?

Yeah.

As far as getting it out for distribution, yes.

You mentioned two different companies.

Yeah.

So you can go back and mention those companies getting Y1Y1 would be for one, movie and the other would be for the other.

Sure.

Essentially the reason I'm doing it this way is because like the bigger films I do for like the other companies, and that's what pays rent every month.

But then I'd say it's one of those things I get good money up front.

I could pay my rent and then that's it for the month.

I have to do another movie if I want to pay another one.

So I have these six entertainment movies in between that I can hold the rights over.

So when I'm older and I want to retire, I will still have residuals from all of these films that I made.

And so often the profits I make from the movies from wild, I can take to help fund movies like this that will actually have the longevity that I need.

I love that you're doing that because people work.

I mean, I'm thinking about my husband, who's worked like over 20 years at the water company, to get that retirement and everything, too.

But what you're doing is you've built a business.

Yeah.

Out used love for entertainment.

Yeah.

And so not only are you entertaining audiences, but you're thinking about your future too.

Yeah.

And so my question to you is because a lot of independent filmmakers, and I'll even throw myself in, we're very creative.

We're not thinking about the, the long term goal.

Right.

So how do we get from still being in entertainment?

But starting to think about our long term goals so that we don't end up where, like, for example, you work with a distribution company and never pay you done.

Exactly.

Which happens a lot.

Honestly in the yeah.

Yeah, yeah I know we both know this.

Yeah.

So that's, that's.

Why it's so important to do this.

Yes.

You know like with just to control it.

Yeah I think that well like we were talking about the packaging like I, I think it's important to also know how to do that kind of stuff in case you get to that point where you're going to want to self distribute.

Yeah, I do all my own covers.

I can't afford to hire an artist for every film.

But then for something like wild I they have an artist that they do, so I don't have to worry about that.

So that's one less thing.

But then I have a lot more I have to adhere to.

When you're doing a movie for another studio, for example, Wild, I, they have a minimum runtime requirement.

So if I do my edit and it's 20 minute short, I got to go out and film some more.

But if I'm distributing it myself and two B takes movies that are 45 minutes or longer, it's done.

It's done, you know?

And then that's how you can have multiple films because it's going to make the same money regardless.

On streaming, if it's 70 minutes or 50 minutes as long as it passes as a feature film, then you'll make the same amount of money on it.

Which is really good.

So we have a few minutes left.

Okay.

you have this down to a science.

That's why I suggest that you do it as a master class.

You have this doubt as a science.

Can you give us maybe 3 to 5 tips of what you've learned on your journey so that you can, pass this wisdom on to other filmmakers, especially in this genre, like, for example, you said that you do b b movies.

Well, there's a lot as part of the subgenre.

Maybe one of the subgenre for horror films doesn't work.

So maybe you can tell us something like that.

I don't know, you are the expert, but I just want to give you some ideas.

I mean, yeah, kind of like what you said.

You got to find out what works for you.

You know, usually it always goes back down to what your passion is, because if you have a passion for something, the heart will show in it.

You watch studio films and you can tell there's no heart there, just making a product.

You watch a movie like this and it might be cheap, but you know that they're enjoying it and it kind of resonates on that level, you know?

And I always say one of the tips definitely is don't think that just because you only have a cell phone that you can't do something because people and this is such a crude analogy, but, you know, when you're filming something on a super fancy camera, a turd is still a turd.

You know, you can put jewels on.

Yeah, it doesn't matter.

Yeah.

But if you've got the story.

How to shoot that, that's what matters.

Not just that you're shooting, but I love it.

And so I think that you can have really great artists with a cell phone or you can have people that they don't know what they're doing with a really expensive camera, and then it doesn't really matter.

So I don't want people to ever be discouraged for a lack of equipment, thinking they need a huge crew to go do this because you don't, you know, and I just think the more that you learn for yourself, the better off you're going to be, because there's a lot of times you're going to be on your own.

There's gonna be certain situations where things fall apart, and it'll be really beneficial that you knew how to edit or how to light, or how to do sound or how to do art.

I just think it's really important to at least dabble a little bit in all of those.

So you always have your bases covered.

That is a perfect way to end our masterclass.

Dustin, thank you so much for doing this with me.

I mean, I kind of feel like I could go out and make.

Do you to go make.

A movie.

Yes.

Okay.

You'll start it though, right I will okay okay okay, good.

Okay, good.

Yes.

Perfect.

Thank you so much.

And you know, people will be reaching out to you too because they're very interesting.

I welcome and thank you for joining us on Everybody with Angela Williamson.

Viewers like you make this show possible.

Join us on social media to continue this conversation and good night and stay well.