>>JON: EVALUATING A SESSION OF THE INDIANA GENERAL ASSEMBLY - ANY SESSION OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY - IS A LOT LIKE ANALYZING A SUSPECTED TORNADO.

EVERYONE ALONG THE STORM'S PATH KNOWS SOMETHING HAPPENED, THANKS TO STRONG WINDS, EAR-POPPING PRESSURE CHANGES, AND A TELLTALE RUMBLE THAT'S OFTEN LIKENED TO THE VIBRATION CAUSED BY A PASSING FREIGHT TRAIN.

IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO GET THE BIG PICTURE, HOWEVER, UNTIL SURVEY TEAMS FROM THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE FAN OUT TO MEASURE THE STORM'S FOOTPRINT AND GAUGE ITS INTENSITY, STRUCTURE BY STRUCTURE, FALLEN TREE BY FALLEN TREE.

ONLY AFTER RULING OUT STRAIGHT-LINE WINDS CAN THE EXPERTS PROCLAIM THE STORM A TORNADO AND RATE IT ON THE FUJITA SCALE.

HI, I'M JON SCHWANTES, AND ON THIS WEEK'S SHOW - OUR LAST OF THE 2022 SEASON - WE'LL ASSESS THE JUST-CONCLUDED LEGISLATIVE SESSION WITH OUR SURVEY TEAM, FOUR OF OUR STATE'S MOST RESPECTED JOURNALISTS.

DON'T GO AWAY INDIANA LAWMAKERS - FROM THE STATEHOUSE TO YOUR HOUSE.

JOINING ME TO ASSESS THE INDIANA GENERAL ASSEMBLY'S 2022 SESSION ARE FOUR PEOPLE WHO FOLLOWED MOST EVERY TWIST AND TURN BRANDON SMITH, STATEHOUSE REPORTER FOR INDIANA PUBLIC MEDIA AND HOST OF INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW, WHICH, AS I LIKE TO SAY, AIRS ON MANY OF THESE SAME PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATIONS KAITLIN LANGE, STATEHOUSE REPORTER FOR THE INDIANAPOLIS STAR NIKI KELLY, STATEHOUSE BUREAU CHIEF FOR THE FORT WAYNE JOURNAL GAZETTE AND ARIKA HERRON, EDUCATION REPORTER FOR THE INDIANAPOLIS STAR.

AS SOME OF YOU KNOW, I'M ALWAYS ON A NEVER-ENDING QUEST TO FIND THE PERFECT METAPHOR, OR EVEN A WORKABLE METAPHOR, OR EVEN JUST A HALF-BAKED METAPHOR TO DESCRIBE THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS.

I MAY HAVE HIT A NEW LOW.

BECAUSE AT THE TOP OF THE SHOW I TALKED ABOUT ASSESSING THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY IS LIKE KIND OF STUDYING THE AFTERMATH OF A SUSPECTED TORNADO.

THERE IS A LOT OF FURY, AND NOISE, AND BLUSTER AND VIBRATION.

AT THE OUTSET.

IT IS NOT UNTIL THE TEAMS GO OUT AND GET THE AERIAL SHOTS AND FIGURE OUT WHICH DIRECTION THE TREES FELL DO THEY REALLY KNOW WHAT WENT ON.

I'M NOT SAYING DAMAGE, JUST SIZING.

WE'LL START WITH YOU, BRANDON, HOW GREAT IS THAT METAPHOR?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, IT DEPENDS ON WHO YOU TALK TO.

SOME WOULD THINK THAT IS APT.

SOME WERE UNHAPPY.

NOTABLY GUN REGULATION ADVOCATES.

CERTAINLY IF YOU'RE A TRANSGENDER PERSON IN THIS STATE OR AN ALLY OF TRANSGENDER IN THIS STATE, YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT HAPPENED IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY THIS YEAR.

AND I THINK THERE ARE MANY IN THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, LARGER BUSINESSES, NOT SO MUCH SMALL BUSINESSES, WHO ARE NOT AS THRILLED AS THEY COULD BE WITH WHAT HAPPENED ULTIMATELY AT THE END OF THE SESSION WITH TAX CUTS.

SO, YEAH, I THINK THERE IS -- THE STORY OF THE SESSION REALLY CAN'T BE TOLD UNTIL LIKE ANY SESSION, BUT PARTICULARLY THIS ONE UNTIL THE END OF SESSION.

THERE WAS SO MUCH REALLY BIG STUFF I THINK THAT WAS IN FLUX UP UNTIL THE END.

>> THAT IS WHAT I WAS SUGGESTING, NOT THAT THERE WAS DAMAGE TO BE ASSESSED.

SOME SECTORS.

MORE THE PROVERBIAL DUST HAS TO IT SETTLE.

THERE WERE SEVERAL BILLS IN THE FINAL HOURS THAT BECAME THE PROVERBIAL CHRISTMAS TREE, HODGEPODGE, A LITTLE OF THIS AND THAT.

IT DOES TAKE TIME TO SORT.

ARE ALL THE CARDS ON THE TABLE, KAITLIN?

ANY SURPRISES?

>> WE DON'T KNOW WHAT GOVERNOR HOLCOMB IS GOING TO DO ON SOME OF THESE BILLS.

WE HAVE THE PERMITLESS CARRY BILL, THE BAN ON TRANSGENDER GIRLS PARTICIPATING IN GIRLS' SPORTS.

WE DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW WHAT HOLCOMB WILL DO ON THOSE, ESPECIALLY WITH THE PERMITLESS CARRY BILL.

IS HE GOING TO GO AGAINST HIS ISB HEAD OF THE POLICE, OR IS HE GOING TO SIDE WITH THE MORE -- THE CONSERVATIVE LAWMAKERS WHO PASSED THE BILL.

>> NIKI, THERE ARE A LOT OF WAYS TO JUDGE THIS SESSION.

WE CAN LOOK, 849 BILLS, 20% PASSED.

HOW DO YOU MEASURE THE SESSION?

HOW SHOULD HOOSIERS MEASURE THE SESSION IN TERMS OF WHETHER THIS WAS PRODUCTIVE?

BECAUSE I HAD LEGISLATIVE LEADERS HERE LAST WEEK, DEPENDING WHO I ASKED, IT WAS A WASTE OF TIME, EXERCISE IN CULTURAL WARFARE OR GREAT SERVICE TO THE STATE OF INDIANA.

>> THAT'S ALWAYS WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO IS PERSPECTIVE.

THERE ARE 177 BILLS ON THE GOVERNOR'S DESK.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF THOSE ARE BIPARTISAN BILLS THAT THEY'RE NOT HUGE SEXY ISSUES, BUT THEY MAKE SMALL TWEAKS TO LAW THAT HELP PEOPLE.

AND THEN THE SORT OF 10% THAT GET ALL THE ATTENTION.

AND SO THEY ALWAYS GET STUFF DONE THAT HELPS PEOPLE.

BUT THERE ARE DEFINITELY DIFFERENCES WHETHER SOME THINGS ALSO HURT PEOPLE.

THERE IS ALSO THE SECOND -- LIKE A THIRD CATEGORY OF, WELL, WE COULD HAVE HELPED MORE PEOPLE.

YOU KNOW, WE HAD THIS HUGE SURPLUS AND WE DEBATED TAX CUTS, WE HEARD FROM DEMOCRATS, WHY ARE WE DEBATING TAX CUTS WHEN WE HAVE A PARTIALLY FUNDED PRE-K PROGRAM THAT HELPS A FEW THOUSAND KIDS A YEAR.

WE STILL HAVE THINGS THAT WE NEED TO DO NEXT YEAR WITH PUBLIC HEALTH, AND SO THERE ARE SOME ISSUES ABOUT, WE COULD HAVE USED SOME OF THAT MONEY TO HELP PEOPLE RIGHT AWAY.

>> OR EVEN GOING FURTHER, IF YOU WANTED TO CUT TAXES, THEY COULD HAVE CUT TAXES THAT WOULD MORE IMMEDIATELY PROVIDE RELIEF TO HOOSIERS.

THAT'S WHAT REPUBLICANS -- >> THE GAS.

>> EXACTLY.

>> SPENDING THE GAS TAX, A TEMPORARY SUSPENSION OF THE GAS TAX AND OR THE SALES TAX ON GASOLINE.

SPEAKER TODD HUSTON IN PARTICULAR, WE DIDN'T HEAR ROD BRAY TALK ABOUT THIS, HOUSTON CONSTANTLY BANGING THE DRUM, WE ARE PUTTING MONEY IN THE POCKETS OF HOOSIERS.

ONE, IT IS GOING TO BE A WHILE BEFORE ANY OF THAT MONEY GOES BACK TO HOOSIERS, AND TWO, IT IS NOT GOING TO BE VERY MUCH.

THE FIRST TAX CUT THAT WILL TAKE EFFECT, THE TWO UTILITY TAX ELIMINATIONS, THAT'S A COUPLE OF DOLLARS ON THE AVERAGE HOOSIER'S MONTHLY BILL, NOT NOTHING, BUT LITERALLY LIKE ONE OR TWO DOLLARS, DEPENDING ON THE SIZE OF YOUR BILL.

AND THE INDIVIDUAL INCOME TAX BILL IS PHASED OUT OVER AT LEAST SEVEN YEARS, AND FOR A HOOSIER MAKING $50,000 A YEAR, SAVE 40 BUCKS, $30,000, THE MEDIAN WAGE FROM 2015 TO 2019, IT WILL BE $24.

>> THE SEVEN-YEAR -- TAKES PLACE AS PLANNED.

THE STATE HAS TO HAVE GROWTH, 2% IN REVENUE.

SOME OTHER THINGS HAVE TO HAPPEN IN TERMS OF RETIRING.

NO GUARANTEE THERE.

>> THE FIRST CUT IS AUTOMATIC, AFTER THAT, YEAH, MAYBE IT WILL TAKE EFFECT, MAYBE IT WILL TAKE A COUPLE MORE YEARS TO TAKE EFFECT.

>> I'M NOT GOING TO BURY -- I'M GOING TO GET RID OF MY METAPHOR.

OFFICIAL CEREMONY AND PUT THE TORNADO AWAY.

I GOT TO JUSTIFY ONE MORE THING.

ONE OF THE REASONS I BROUGHT THAT UP AGAIN, IN THE MOMENT, AT THE START, THERE WAS SO MUCH SOUND AND FURY, EVERYBODY WAS RATTLING THE CAGE, SO TO SPEAK, AND ORGANIZATION DAY, THERE WAS A THOUGHT THAT THIS IS SUCH AN OUTRAGE TO HAVE THESE EMERGENCY MEASURES, AND THE IMPOSITION OF VACCINE MANDATES IN THE PRIVATE WORKPLACE, WE HAVE TO HELP PEOPLE NOW, WE'RE NOT EVEN GOING TO WAIT FOR THE SESSION, AND EDUCATION ISSUES, THERE WAS THE SAME SORT OF THING, A DESPERATE NEED, BUT THEN, KEEPING WITH MY METAPHOR -- SEE, IT WORKS -- IT CALMED DOWN AND PEOPLE HAD TO ASSESS.

WHY SO MUCH SOUND AND FURY AT THE BEGINNING?

COVID, OR EDUCATION HAS PEOPLE SO FIRED UP BECAUSE OF NATIONAL CONCERNS, AND THE DRUM BEET NATIONALLY?

>> THAT WAS A LOT OF IT.

WE HAVE BEEN HAVING THIS CONVERSATION SINCE THE LAST SESSION ENDED.

LAST SESSION ENDED IN MAY.

JUNE, JULY, AUGUST, LOTS OF SOUND, FURY, ANGRY PARENTS, AND HOOSIERS IN GENERAL WHO WERE FRUSTRATED ABOUT COVID, ABOUT WHAT THEY THOUGHT MAYBE WAS HAPPENING IN THEIR SCHOOLS.

SO WE HAD THIS LONG BUILD-UP, THAT STARTED LAST SUMMER.

WE HAD TO WAIT UNTIL JANUARY TO MAYBE TRY AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

BY THE TIME IT HAPPENED, IT WAS KIND OF UNCLEAR OF WHAT ACTUALLY NEEDED TO BE DONE STILL.

SO FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, IT WAS A LOT OF SOUND AND FURY, TO NOT GETTING A TON DONE.

THE BILLS WE SPENT THE MOST TIME TALKING ABOUT DIDN'T END UP PASSING AT THE END OF THE DAY.

NIKI IS TALKING DIFFERENT CATEGORIES OF BILLS.

THERE IS A FOURTH, NEVER CROSSED THE FINISH LINE.

>> IT IS INTERESTING, WE HAD GREG TAYLOR, SENATE DEMOCRATIC LEADER AND COUNTERPART FROM THE HOUSE, PHIL GiaQUINTA, TO THEM, THE SESSION WAS AS MUCH ABOUT KILLING BILLS AS ABOUT PROMOTE PG BILLS, OR ADVANCING BILLS.

WAS HAD AN ARGUMENT FOR PROTRACTED DELIBERATION.

IF PEOPLE SAY THE PROCESS MOVED SLOWLY, IF IT HADN'T, MAYBE WE WOULD HAVE ENDED UP WITH A LOT OF COVID RELATED MEASURES THAT SEEM NOW TO BE UNNECESSARY.

I DON'T KNOW.

>> SPEAKER TODD HUSTON TALKED ABOUT THAT.

HARD TO ANYTHING THAN THE HOUSE CAVED, FORCED EMPLOYERS TO PROVIDE THE -- PARTICULARLY THE RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS, THE ONE ONE THAT WOULD HAVE REALLY BLOWN IT UP.

ALL YOU NEEDED WAS TO SAY I WANT A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION AND YOU HAD TO BE GRANTED IT.

AT THE END WHAT THE SENATE PASSED AND ULTIMATELY THE HOUSE AGREED TO WAS CURRENT LAW, ESSENTIALLY.

THERE WAS ONE LITTLE ADDITION, WHICH WAS IF YOU'VE HAD COVID IN THE LAST THREE MONTHS, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET THE VACCINE.

THAT IS THEORETICALLY SHORT TERM, EVENTUALLY THAT THREE MONTHS EXPIRES.

SO I CAN'T DESCRIBE IT ANY WAY BUT THE HOUSE CAVED, SPEAKER HUSTON TALKED ABOUT THINGS CHANGED FROM THE START OF SESSION.

ONE, COVID, THE COVID SITUATION IN THE STATE HAD TO IMPROVE, AS IT HAS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

CASES ARE TEMPORARILY AT LEAST DOWN.

BUT ALSO WE HAVE THE SUPREME COURT RULINGS ON THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION'S PROPOSED MANDATES.

THEY UPHELD IT FOR HEALTHCARE WORKERS, WHICH WERE THE LARGEST GROUP BY FAR OF PEOPLE WHO CAME TO THE STATEHOUSE TO ARGUE FOR THE STATE BILL, AND WILL NOW NOT BE HELPED AT ALL BY ANYTHING THAT THAT STATE BILL DOES.

THE LARGER OSHA MANDATE APPLIES TO ANY EMPLOYER WITH 100 EMPLOYEES, THAT WAS STRUCK DOWN.

YOU HAD COMPANIES NOT REALLY MOVING FORWARD WITH SOME OF THEIR MANDATES THAT WE THOUGHT THEY MIGHT.

I THINK THE WHOLE SITUATION JUST QUIETED.

HE EVEN ACKNOWLEDGED THAT, WHERE THEY WERE IN JANUARY WAS NOT WHERE THEY WERE IN MARCH.

>> AND UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES, AND I SUPPOSE THAT'S A BAD PHRASE TO USE IN CONNECTION WITH AN UNPRECEDENTED GLOBAL HEALTH CRISIS, NORMALLY WE COULD ARGUE, I SUPPOSE, WHEN THINGS SUBSIDE, THE THREAT SUBSIDES, THAT THE ISSUE GOES AWAY, NOW WE'VE GOT ORAL ARGUMENTS IN THE INDIANA SUPREME COURT DEALING WITH THE WHOLE QUESTION OF EMERGENCY POWERS, WHICH WILL SORT OF DREDGE THIS UP AGAIN.

>> YEAH, REMEMBER THAT?

>> REMEMBER THAT.

IS THE WIND OUT OF THOSE SAILS, DO YOU THINK, ARIKA, OR IS THAT -- I KNOW THIS IS OFF THE EDUCATION TOPIC SOMEWHAT.

BUT YOU'RE EDUCATING US ON THE ISSUE.

I MEAN, IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE THE SAME VIGOR.

BUT I'M SURE WE'LL STILL BE GOING THROUGH THAT PROCESS.

IT'S ALREADY ESTABLISHED.

>> WE'LL STILL GO THROUGH THE PROCESS, I'M NOT SURE WE'LL SEE THE SAME OUTRAGE, YOU KNOW, AND LIKE LEVEL OF, I GUESS, INTEREST, THAT WE SAW, YOU KNOW, EARLY ON.

I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'LL HAVE -- I MEAN, I THINK I'M # ON THE EMERGENCY POWERS ISSUE, BASICALLY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FUTURE STUFF, RIGHT?

WE'VE MOVED PAST, WE NO LONGER HAVE A HEALTH EMERGENCY, YOU KNOW, HERE IN THE STATE.

SO NOW THAT CASE IS ALL ABOUT JUST FUTURE CONCERNS ABOUT EXECUTIVE VERSUS LEGISLATIVE POWERS.

IT DOESN'T REALLY, EVEN THOUGH IT STARTED BECAUSE OF COVID, DOESN'T REALLY HAVE ANYTHING TO DO -- >> AND THAT ISSUE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S SUBSIDED IN RELATION TO THAT NARROW TOPIC, COVID.

THAT THEME STILL EXISTS.

>> OH, THE THEME IS THERE.

>> THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH VERSUS THE LEGISLATURE.

AND IN FACT, THAT PROBABLY IS WHAT LED TO THE FIRST VETO.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> WE'LL SEE IF IT'S THE FIRST OR ONLY OF THIS SESSION, ONE OF ONLY FIVE OR SIX, ONLY THE IF I HAVE FIFTH -- FIFTH -- THAT WAS THE FRICTION.

>> THE LEGISLATURE REALLY WANTED TO FLEX A LITTLE ON OVERSIGHT.

THE FIRST VETO HAD TO DO WITH LANGUAGE THEY PUT IN A BLOCKCHAIN BILL.

AGAIN, WE'RE JUST ADDING RANDOM LANGUAGE.

>> ON THE LAST DAY OF SESSION.

>> THAT ONE REALLY CAME OUT -- >> THERE WAS LANGUAGE FROM A BILL THAT DIED IN THE HOUSE, THAT BASICALLY CHANGED HOW AGENCIES CAN DO RULE-MAKING.

>> DIED IN THE SENATE.

>> SORRY, PASSED THE HOUSE, DIED IN THE SENATE.

AND THE REALLY AWFUL THING ABOUT THAT ONE, THE COMMITTEE DIDN'T EVEN HEAR TESTIMONY FROM THE OPPOSITION.

THEY HEARD TESTIMONY FROM ONE SUPPORTER, THEN THEY DELAYED IT TO THE NEXT WEEK, AND THE CHAIRMAN WAS LIKE, WE'RE NOT HEARING THIS BILL.

>> THE SUPPOSITION WAS DOING IT NEXT YEAR.

>> AND THEY STILL STUCK IT IN A BILL.

AND SO THE GOVERNOR DEFINITELY VETOED IT.

>> THERE WAS ALSO -- I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE, THIS ALSO GOES INTO THIS LAWSUIT PLAYING OUT.

THERE WAS LANGUAGE PUT INTO THAT BILL AT THE END FROM THE ORIGINAL HOUSE BILL THAT EVEN THE HOUSE DIDN'T PASS, WHICH HAD TO DO WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE REVIEWING THESE PROPOSED RULES, AND BEING ABLE TO BASICALLY SPIKE THEM.

AND ESPECIALLY FOR EMERGENCY -- FOR EMERGENCY RULES.

WHICH HAPPEN ALL THE TIME, BY THE WAY.

NOT DURING A PUBLIC HEALTH -- PARTICULARLY THE GOVERNOR POINTED OUT THE BOARD OF ANIMAL HEALTH PASSES RULES DEALING WITH.

>> AVIAN FLU.

>> GAMING COMMISSION.

ANY NUMBER OF THINGS.

AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE HAS TO REVIEW THEM.

SAYS TIMELY, DOESN'T SAY HOW QUICKLY.

AS THE GOVERNOR POINTED OUT, WHAT DOES TIMELY MANNER MEAN?

IS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE GOING TO HOLD THEM UM PAST WHEN THEY NEED TO BE IN EFFECT?

IT IS ALSO, AGAIN, EVEN THE HOUSE DIDN'T PASS THAT LANGUAGE.

AND ALL OF A SUDDEN IT MADE IT INTO A BILL AT THE END.

AND I THINK THAT'S A LITTLE FURTHER TENSION BETWEEN THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE.

>> FOR THOSE WHO DON'T FOLLOW THE PROCESS, YOU MAY SAY, R IS BEHIND THIS NAME, R IS BEHIND THAT NAME.

>> TWO ATTORNEYS GENERAL IN A ROW, BY THE WAY.

>> ODDS ON THIS OTHER LAWSUIT WE TALKED ABOUT YOU WANTED TO HAVE THE REPUBLICAN ATTORNEY GENERAL, HE WENT TO COURT AND SAID THE GOVERNOR SHOULDN'T EVEN HAVE AN ABILITY TO CHALLENGE THIS LAW.

AND I ALONE SHOULD DECIDE WHAT IS CONSTITUTIONAL OR NOT.

DO YOU THINK THAT IS ALSO AT PLAY?

>> OH, YEAH.

>> THAT SORT OF PART OF THIS WARFARE WE'VE SEEN BUBBLING -- NOT BELOW.

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT DOES COME INTO PLAY.

BECAUSE I JUST CAN'T HELP BUT THINK THEY'RE PROBABLY NOT ALWAYS GOING TO BE ON THE SAME PAGE WHEN IT COMES TO WHETHER THESE EMERGENCY ORDERS ARE NECESSARY.

THE OTHER INTERESTING THING, IN HIS VETO LETTER, TOWARDS THE END, HE DID SORT OF QUESTION IF LAWMAKERS HAVE THE LEGAL ABILITY -- THERE IS A PROVISION THEY HAVE TO REVIEW EMERGENCIES -- OR EMERGENCY RULES IF IT'S BEEN IN EFFECT MORE THAN 90 DAYS.

SO HE QUESTIONED IF THEY HAVE THE LEGAL AUTHORITY FOR THAT.

AND THAT GETS RIGHT BACK TO THE LAWSUIT OF HOW MUCH POWER AND SHOULD LAWMAKERS HAVE IN INDIANA.

>> WELL, AND IT WASN'T LAWMAKERS IN GENERAL, IT WAS THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, WHICH IS A SMALL GROUP OF LEGISLATIVE LEADERS, BASICALLY ACTING AS PROXY FOR ALL 150 LAWMAKERS.

>> TOTALLY CREATION OF THE LEGISLATURE DOES NOT APPEAR ANYWHERE IN THE INDIANA CONSTITUTION, WHICH IS -- THERE WAS ALSO LANGUAGE HAVING TO DO WITH BROADBAND, WHICH I DON'T THINK ANY OF US NOTICED, THAT WAS PUT IN LATE, THAT GOVERNOR HOLCOMB SAYS WOULD INTERFERE WITH SEVERAL OF THE PROJECTS APPARENTLY -- >> HE SAID IN 28 COUNTIES, A TOTAL OF $154 MILLION OF PROGRAMS FUNDED BY THE SO-CALLED ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT GRANTS.

>> IT WASN'T JUST THAT.

>> THAT HAS TO DO WITH EDUCATION.

BROADBAND, WE SAW DURING COVID, BRING IT BACK IN HERE.

WE SAW DURING COVID, THAT BROADBAND IS ESSENTIAL TO KIDS, WHETHER THEIR CLASSROOM BECOMES THE FAMILY ROOM, THE KITCHEN, THE BASEMENT.

HOW MUCH A BLOW WOULD IT BE TO NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO WIRE THESE LARGE PORTIONS PERHAPS OF THE STATE.

>> OH, IT'S HUGELY IMPORTANT.

AND FOR ALL KINDS OF REASONS, PARTICULARLY WHEN TALKING EDUCATION.

THERE WERE A LOT OF FAMILIES WHO COULDN'T ACCESS THE ONLINE LEARNING THAT THE OTHER KIDS WERE DOING.

THERE WERE TEACHERS WHO HAD TO GO INTO THEIR SCHOOL BUILDINGS TO TEACH REMOTELY BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO FROM HOME.

EVEN THOUGH WE SEEM TO BE MOVING INTO A NEW ERA, THE PANDEMIC CALMED DOWN, KIDS ARE BACK IN CLASSROOMS, BACK IN SCHOOL.

WE KNOW SCHOOLS ARE GOING TO BE USING THESE VIRTUAL REMOTE LEARNING DAYS MORE OFTEN, GOING FORWARD.

THEY HAVE NEW CAPABILITY, THEY FIGURED OUT HOW TO USE THESE.

PEOPLE ARE CRYING ABOUT THE END OF THE SNOW DAY.

WE HAVE KIDS WHO ARE REALLY BEHIND.

AND SO EVERY EXTRA DAY WE CAN KEEP THEM LEARNING IS GOING TO BE HUGELY IMPORTANT.

IT IS JUST GOING TO CREATE WIDER GAPS IF THAT LEARNING IS ONLY AVAILABLE TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE BROADBAND.

>> IMPORTANTLY, I THINK PEOPLE NEED TO REMEMBER, TOO, WHEN TALKING ABOUT BROADBAND ACCESS, THERE ARE STILL HOOSIERS WHO DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THE INTERNET, PERIOD.

BUT THAT GROUP IS BECOMING SMALLER, IN PART BECAUSE OF THE WORK THE STATE HAS BEEN DOING OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS UNDER THE HOLCOMB ADMINISTRATION.

SO WE'RE STARTING TO MOVE AWAY FROM JUST GETTING THEM INTERNET PERIOD TO GETTING THEM THE KIND OF INTERNET THEY NEED TO BE ABLE TO DO THESE VIRTUAL LEARNING OPPORTUNITIES.

JUST HAVING THE BASIC -- THE REALLY BASIC INTERNET ISN'T NECESSARILY GOING TO WORK WHEN YOU'RE HAVING TO DO A VIDEO STREAM FROM A CLASSROOM.

>> WHEN YOU THINK, TOO, ONE OF THE THINGS THEY DID DO THIS YEAR IS LIMIT HOW MANY ASYNCHRONOUS DAYS THEY CAN HAVE.

BECAUSE THEY WANT THESE TO BE LIVE LESSONS, THAT LIVE STREAM, THAT REQUIRES HIGHER LEVEL OF INTERNET THAN DOWNLOADING A WORKSHEET, WHICH IS NOT WHAT WE WANT KIDS TO BE DOING AT HOME LEARNING.

>> FOR THOSE THAT DON'T FOLLOW, USUALLY WHEN A BILL GOES TO THE COMMITTEE AND THE CHAIR DECIDES NOT TO HEAR THE BILL, THAT MEANS IT'S DONE.

AGAIN, NOT TECHNICALLY, I GUESS, ANYTHING THAT PASSES ONE CHAMBER, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, CAN COME BACK.

WHAT -- HOW ATYPICAL, NIKI, WAS THIS, AND IS THERE ANY LASTING DAMAGE TO THE INSTITUTION OR THE PROCESS?

>> I THINK WE SEE THIS ON A HANDFUL OF BILLS EVERY YEAR.

THIS ONE WAS SUCH AN INTERESTING THING.

THE SENATE DID HEAR THE BILL.

THEY GUTTED IT.

THE COMMITTEE.

>> IT WENT BACK TO BASICALLY THE OLD LICENSING STRUCTURE.

>> CORRECT, WITH SOME SLIGHT TWEAKS.

>> IMPROVEMENTS TO GET THE PEOPLE LICENSES FASTER, TOO, WHICH WAS A COMPLAINT.

>> THEN THE BILL DIED THE NEXT DAY BECAUSE OF A DEADLINE QUIRK, BECAUSE THEY STRIP AND INSERTED IT, IT WOULD HAVE TO GO TO RULES.

IT WAS THE COMMITTEE REPORT DEADLINE, SO IT DIED.

SO, OKAY, THEY'RE LIKE BUT WE'RE GOING TO KEEP IT GOING.

BUT DID THEY KEEP IT GOING WITH WHAT THE COMMITTEE PASSED?

NO.

THEY STARTED AGAIN WITH WHAT THE HOUSE PASSED.

SO, AGAIN, WE ARE BACK TO LANGUAGE THAT HAD NOT PASSED A COMMITTEE, EVEN A COMMITTEE IN THE SENATE.

SO I GET WHY PEOPLE SEE THAT, AND ARE LIKE, WOW, THAT'S ROUGH.

>> I'LL PLAY DEVILS ADVOCATE ON BEHALF OF THE REPUBLICANS WHO PASSED THE BILL.

I THINK IF THE BILL HAD MADE IT TO THE SENATE FLOOR, WE SAW THE FINAL VOTE, 30-20, I THINK THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN THE VOTES TO CHANGE THE BILL BACK TO THE WAY IT CAME OUT OF THE HOUSE, WHICH IS ULTIMATELY WHAT PASSED THE SENATE.

I THINK IT WAS JUST -- SO I THINK ULTIMATELY YOU GET TO THE SAME RESULT AT THE END OF THE DAY.

I JUST THINK THE WAY IT WENT -- THE WAY THEY WENT ABOUT IT.

>> A SELF-INFLICTED -- >> A LITTLE BIT.

>> PERHAPS IF IN FACT IT WAS A WOUND.

>> IF THEY WANTED TO ADVANCE THE BILL, THEY COULD HAVE THE COMMITTEE MEET AND HASH IT OUT.

THEY DECIDED NOT TO DO THAT.

THEY GOT IT EVENTUALLY ANYWAY, JUST A LITTLE LATER IN A MORE CIRCUITOUS PATH.

>> I DO WONDER, I THINK THERE IS A CHANCE IT COULD HAVE CHANGED TO NOT WHAT IT ENDED UP BEING.

I LOOKED AT OHIO WHERE THEY PASSED IT FOR 21 AND OVER.

I WOULD -- >> SOMETHING THE SENATE HAD BEEN PUSHING.

>> I WOULD ENVISION SOMETHING LIKE THAT, A CHANGE LIKE THAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED IF THEY HAD LET IT COME TO SECONDS FOR AMENDMENT.

I DON'T THINK WE FOR SURE GOT THE FINAL BILL WE WOULD HAVE OTHERWISE.

>> FOR THOSE HOOSIERS WHO SAY -- IT'S RIGGED, WE KNOW -- DIDN'T MATTER, I CAN GO AND TESTIFY FOR HOURS, AS WE SAW ON SOME BILLS, 8:00, 9:00.

WHAT WAS THE LONGEST.

>> NINE HOURS.

AND THE VOTE COMES, AND IT IS ESSENTIALLY OPPOSITE IN SOME CASES OF WHAT THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE TESTIFYING HAD TO SAY.

AGAIN, ANY DAMAGE HERE DO YOU THINK?

>> CERTAINLY SOME UNFORCED ERRORS THIS YEAR ON THE PART OF THE LEGISLATURE.

BUT WE DID SEE IN A FEW INSTANCES COMMITTEES LISTENING TO PEOPLE THAT CAME AND SPOKE TO THEM.

THE PARTISAN SCHOOL BOARDS BILL.

WE HAD EVERYONE THAT CAME TO TESTIFY, TESTIFIED AGAINST THAT BILL.

>> THIS IS WHERE SCHOOL BOARD -- WOULD-BE SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS RUN AS AN R OR A D. >> RIGHT NOW, WE DON'T DO THAT, WE HAVE NON-PARTISAN RACES.

NO ONE CAME TO TESTIFY IN SUPPORT OF THAT BILL.

SO THEY DIDN'T MOVE IT FORWARD.

THEY SAID NO ONE WANTS THIS.

EVEN THOUGH IT POLLED WELL WITH OUR CONSTITUENTS, NO ONE CARED ENOUGH TO SHOW UP.

THERE ARE INSTANCES WHERE THEY DO LISTEN TO PEOPLE WHO COME AND TESTIFY.

I THINK THERE IS EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT PEOPLE COMING AND CONTINUING TO BE PART OF THE PROCESS.

AND I THINK THAT'S A LOT OF WHAT HAPPENED WITH SOME OF THESE EDUCATION BILLS, TOO, WITH THE HOUSE BILL 1134.

THEY DIDN'T END UP PASSING THAT BILL.

I THINK ONE OF THE REASONS ANYWAY WAS BECAUSE OF HOW MANY PEOPLE SHOWED UP TO SPEAK AGAINST THE BILL, HOW MANY EMAILS, THERE WAS A LOT OF PUSHBACK.

>> LET'S DIVE INTO THAT.

CALL IT WHAT YOU WILL, THE CRITICAL RACE THEORY BILL, MANY NAMES, MONIKERS, BASICALLY WOULD HAVE HANDCUFFED TEACHERS AND SAID THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS YU CAN'T ADDRESS, OR IF YOU DO YOU HAVE TO ADDRESS IN A CERTAIN WAY.

THAT DID GET CONSIDERABLE PUSHBACK FROM SCHOOL BOARDS, FROM TEACHERS.

>> ON BOTH SIDES, BY THE WAY.

>> BECAUSE THERE WERE FOLKS WHO WANTED THAT BILL, OR A VERSION OF THAT BILL WHO SAID THIS DOESN'T GO NEARLY FAR ENOUGH.

EVEN IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM.

>> ARE WE DONE WITH THIS SPASM OF THOSE ISSUES?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

IT'S A LONG TIME UNTIL THE NEXT LEGISLATIVE SESSION, IT IS GOING TO BE A DIFFERENT CLIMATE, WILL BE AFTER THE ELECTION.

I DO THINK THE UPCOMING ELECTION DID HAVE A LARGE ROLE IN GETTING THESE ISSUES TO THE FOREFRONT OF LAWMAKERS' MINDS.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL COME BACK AS FORCEFULLY ESPECIALLY BECAUSE OF THE WAY, ESPECIALLY THE CRITICAL RACE THEORY ISSUES, I DON'T KNOW THAT ONE WILL COME BACK AS STRONGLY JUST BECAUSE IT HAD SUCH A ROCKY SESSION ON THAT TOPIC.

BUT MAYBE THE HARMFUL MATERIALS, BECAUSE IT CAME UP IN YEARS PAST WHEN IT WASN'T AN ELECTION YEAR.

THERE SEEMS TO BE AN APPETITE.

>> IF THOSE TWO FAILED, ANOTHER EDUCATION BILL THAT I THINK WHEN ALL WAS SAID AND DONE GOT ALMOST UNANIMOUS SUPPORT, WAS THE NOTION OF IF NOT PARENTAL OVERSIGHT, AND CERTAINLY NOT AN ADVISORY COMMITTEE, WHICH IS ONE THING ALSO THAT DIED, BUT BASICALLY JUST SAYING, HEY, IF YOU'RE A TAXPAYER, A REPORT, IF YOU'RE A BREATHING HUMAN, YOU CAN SHOW UP AND TESTIFY AND TALK TO THE SCHOOL BOARD BEFORE BUSINESS IS CONDUCTED.

>> MOST SCHOOL BOARDS, EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE NOT PREVIOUSLY REQUIRED TO HAVE PUBLIC COMMENT, TOOK PUBLIC COMMENT.

THE ONLY REASON WE SAW THAT STOP IN SOME CASES WAS JUST BECAUSE OF HOW OUT OF CONTROL THESE WERE GETTING, DISRUPTIVE, PEOPLE COMING WERE BEING -- WE SAW THREATS OF VIOLENCE.

THERE WERE NO SCHOOLS COMING AND SAYING NO WE DON'T WANT TO HEAR FROM PEOPLE, DON'T WANT TO TALK TO OUR PARENTS.

THEY ASKED FOR REASONABLE LIMITS ON CAN WE LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF TIME WE SPEND HEARING FROM PEOPLE, CAN WE MAKE IT FROM WE'RE HEARING FROM OUR ACTUAL CONSTITUENTS AND TAXPAYERS, NOT SOMEONE FROM OUT OF STATE TO TALK ABOUT AN ISSUE.

YEAH, THAT ONE DID HAVE A -- >> WHETHER SOME OF THESE ISSUES COME BACK, AND I THINK KAITLIN MADE A GOOD POINTED ABOUT THE ELECTION, TOO, I THINK THE ELECTION WAS DRIVING SOME OF THESE ISSUES, BECAUSE YOU HAD REPUBLICANS WORRIED ABOUT PRIMARY ELECTIONS, AND I THINK THE MORE PRIMARY CHALLENGES THAN AT LEAST A DECADE.

>> FROM THE RIGHT.

IF THEY'RE A REPUBLICAN PRIMARY, THEY ARE NOT COMING IN FROM THE LEFT.

>> '22 STYLE.

>> SOMEBODY AT THE END OF SESSION TALKED TO ME AND SAID THE SENATE WAS TRYING TO SAY, SENATE, WHICH WAS LESS CONCERNED ABOUT PRIMARIES THAN THE HOUSE WAS, YOU KNOW, WAS SAYING, HEY -- >> THEY'RE ONLY UP EVERY FOUR YEARS.

>> WE DON'T NEED TO GO THIS FAR, LET'S COOL DOWN AND LET'S STOP SOME OF THESE THINGS, ULTIMATELY THE SENATE DID.

BUT, THAT PERSON MADE THE ARGUMENT TO ME THAT WHAT THE SENATE HAS DONE IS PERHAPS GUARANTEED AN EVEN MORE CONSERVATIVE HOUSE IN THE FUTURE.

BECAUSE NOW HOUSE MEMBERS CAN'T GO BACK TO THEIR CONSTITUENTS AND SAY HERE'S WHAT WE DELIVERED FOR YOU, THEY TRIED, BUT DIDN'T ULTIMATELY DELIVER SOME OF THESE THINGS, AND WILL THAT ULTIMATELY MEAN THAT SOME OF THESE PRIMARY CHALLENGES WILL BE SUCCESSFUL, AND YOU WILL HAVE AN EVEN MORE CONSERVATIVE INDIANA HOUSE THAN IT CURRENTLY IS, WHICH DOESN'T SEEM POSSIBLE, BUT IS ABSOLUTELY BECAUSE -- >> JOB IN TOWN HURTING THE -- >> JOHN JACOB IS CONSIDERED AN OUTSIDER IN THE INDIANA GENERAL ASSEMBLY, DOESN'T CAUCUS WITH REPUBLICANS BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT HIM TO.

BUT YOU COULD HAVE A GENERAL ASSEMBLY THAT'S NOW, OR AT LEAST AN INDIANA HOUSE THAT IS A QUARTER JOHN JACOBS.

>> BUCKLE YOUR SEATBELTS.

>> NIKI, FINAL WORD.

>> TALKED ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE WON'T NOTICE, EITHER BECAUSE THE BILLS DIDN'T PASS OR BECAUSE IN THE CASE OF TAXES, IT IS PHASED IN, A NICKEL HERE, A DIME THERE.

WHAT REALLY, WHEN WE LOOK, IF WE RECONVENE THIS SESSION IN A YEAR AND SAY THAT WAS THE BILL THAT REALLY MATTERED, FOR BETTER OR WORSE, WHAT IS IT GOING TO BE?

>> OH, GOSH, THERE IS ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT STUFF.

>> DON'T GET TOO -- START SCRATCHING THE SURFACE, WE'RE ALMOST OUT OF TIME.

GIVE US A TREATISE HERE.

>> MAYBE THAT ONE WOULD HAVE MORE -- >> IN TERMS OF GRANT FUNDING, READI GRANTS.

>> YEAH.

MORE JOBS.

>> ANY OTHER THINGS IT WILL -- THAT ARE LURKING?

>> GUN BILL.

>> IF THERE IS A MISHAP AND BECOMES LAW, AND THERE IS AN OFFICER, HEAVEN FORBID.

>> EVEN IF IT ULTIMATELY MADE A DIFFERENCE.

>> A NEWS STORY AS BACKGROUND.

>> THE BAN ON TRANSGENDER GIRLS PLAYING SPORTS, THAT'S GOING TO HAVE A HUGE IMPACT ON THAT POPULATION, WE'LL HEAR MORE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THAT.

>> AND PROBABLY A LAWSUIT.

DEFINITELY A LAWSUIT.

>> AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES HAS ALREADY ESSENTIALLY SAID IT WILL DO THAT.

>> TAX CUTS, I THINK IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT ARE WE LOOKING LIKE FINANCIALLY NEXT YEAR?

WAS IT THE RIGHT DECISION A YEAR FROM NOW?

>> ENLIGHTENING, AS ENTERTAINING, HOOSIERS THANK YOU FOR THAT, I THANK YOU FOR THAT.

GO GET SOME SLEEP.

AGAIN, MY GUESTS HAVE BEEN BRANDON SMITH, STATEHOUSE REPORTER FOR INDIANA PUBLIC MEDIA KAITLIN LANGE, STATEHOUSE REPORTER FOR THE INDIANAPOLIS STAR NIKI KELLY, STATEHOUSE BUREAU CHIEF FOR THE FORT WAYNE JOURNAL GAZETTE AND ARIKA HERRON, EDUCATION REPORTER FOR THE INDIANAPOLIS STAR.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, I INVITE YOU TO COME BACK IN JANUARY FOR THE START OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY'S 2023 SESSION,