From WXXI news.

This is connections I'm Julie Philipp filling in for Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour begins in the classroom.

In a few short weeks, summer vacation will end and students will return to school.

But school districts around the country are still scrambling to fill vacancies.

With a nationwide teacher shortage.

That's not always an easy task.

Exact numbers are hard to come by, but an analysis by the Learning Policy Institute last year indicated that one out of eight teaching positions was unfilled or filled with teachers not fully certified for their assignments.

And nearly all states reported shortages in special education.

A report from the U.S.

Commission on Civil Rights says the consequences for students who qualify for special education services are, quote, serious and far reaching, not getting the targeted support they need.

Now could affect them for the rest of their lives.

So what does this situation look like here in the Rochester region, and what we're going to talk about there today with?

My guess we have a full house this morning or this afternoon.

We have Kathy Broikou, she's associate professor and chair of the Inclusive Childhood Education and Literacy programs at Saint John Fisher University.

Thanks for joining us today.

And we have Debra Luna, recruitment specialist and a recruitment and retention specialist at Wayne-Finger Lakes BOCES.

Glad to have you.

Thank you so much.

Emma Spellman, a graduate student in the Inclusive Childhood Education Program at Saint John Fisher University and an apprentice at Wayne-Finger Lakes BOCES.

Thanks for coming in.

Thank you.

And last but not least, Erik Vaillancourt, who is director of teaching, learning and accountability for the Bloomfield Central School District.

Thanks for being here.

Happy to be here.

All right.

I want to start out with, just in general, how area districts are dealing with the overall, not just special education, but the overall shortage of teachers.

How big of a problem is that?

Or maybe Debra and Eric could take this one.

Debra.

Yeah.

So, so from my position, from the BOCES standpoint, right.

Our the services that we provide are really in response to what the districts need.

And so we do continue to see an increase in the needs.

I think as conversations around special education resources and, you know, some of those, the needs that students have are, are more common.

And so as a result of that, we do see that impact coming in from the requests from our schools to provide those targeted supports.

Eric has a unique perspective, too, from his district.

Before we get to Eric, though.

Yeah.

You did you talk about the special education?

Is there a wider shortage to and in all kinds of teaching positions?

Yeah, I think it's, you know, it's easy to pinpoint special education because of the critical need.

I mean, there's a critical need for all teachers, but there really is a, a broad stroke.

You have sort of a, a two fold thing that's happening.

You have not only a large group of teachers that are exiting the workforce for retirement.

But then you also have sort of the top of funnel is shrinking a little bit because there's fewer people entering the workforce.

So you're, you know, you're in this sort of unique pivot point where, it's both things are happening at the same time.

And special education is certainly being impacted by that as well.

Okay.

All right.

What would you like to add to that, Eric?

I would just add that it is more than special education where we're seeing those shortages.

There are particular areas like just this morning we were interviewing for a Spanish position at the secondary level, and it's hard to get applicants for that.

So some of those positions, it's there aren't the applicants for them an elementary education position, you generally are going to have applicants.

But as you start talking about things like Spanish, special education at the secondary level, psychologists, though, there are different areas where it is more problematic and why is special education, one of the hardest to fill?

I think because oftentimes people are dual certified, so they have multiple pathways that they can go, whether it is they are Leed certified.

So they could go into teaching, say first grade, second grade, or they could go into teaching special education primarily same at the secondary level.

So it's having that choice.

So even though they're certified, they're choosing the other area that they're certified sometimes.

Yeah.

Depending on maybe where that passion is at that moment.

Absolutely.

I think too.

And, you know, Kathy can speak to this from a higher ed perspective.

But previously there was you sort of chose your certification path so you could choose a gen ed path, or you could choose a special ed path for certification.

Now we have higher ed partners who are sort of, requiring that to be a dual cert path so that you leave with both and you it not only opens up the choices for those educators entering the workforce, but it also provides a bigger candidate pool for for me to recruit from, because they already are coming to the table with their certification already.

Okay.

So you mentioned that that fewer people are getting certified to be a teacher, whether it's special ed or general.

Are you seeing that at Saint John Fisher University?

Fewer students going just going into the education program?

Yes.

According to, higher ed institutions, there are just fewer students going and there are fewer students in general because of the birth rate dropping, fewer students choosing education and fewer students even going to college.

So our recruitment efforts really we have to really focus on recruiting students to, to, teacher education.

And I just want to clarify one thing, because Fisher does have, programs in childhood and adolescence at the middle school and high school as well, and with an add on preschool program.

Okay.

So and I'm, I'm not going to put you on the spot if you don't have exact numbers, but is it a significant decrease in the number of students getting teacher.

Well, there's some data that's a ways back.

That said, 42% of fewer students enrolled.

Kline of 42% over.

Do you know what period.

This was about eight years ago.

But I have to tell you, it has not gotten better.

Okay.

So it's pretty significant is the number of people that are seeking this is not just at Fisher, though.

It's it's everywhere.

Everywhere.

Everywhere.

Right.

So before we even get into, you know, why kids should have special education legally, schools have to provide these services to them.

Is that correct?

That is correct.

Absolutely.

If if students qualify, then we are under that legal obligation to make sure the services that are decided upon for their individual education plan are met.

And what happens if you just don't have the people to do it.

You have to get really creative and sometimes that involves reaching out to retirees or agencies to find different ways to fill those positions.

Then if you're still going through those different avenues, you end up not being able to provide those services.

Then as districts, we would have to make sure that we are offering compensatory services once we are able to fill that position.

What do you mean by that?

So by that is let's say they miss, speech services, for example, because you don't have a speech language pathologist, then you would have to make sure that you make up that time that that student should have received.

Once you do have an SLP available.

But this could be the following year.

This could be I mean, there's no guarantee that you're going to have that service available during the year.

So this child could be set back a year.

It depends.

And also I just want to add that's where working with our partners in like Wayne Finger Lakes BOCES is a huge piece to and reaching out across the region to try to fill those possibilities, to make sure that students aren't going that long without receiving the services that they are entitled to.

Okay.

Yeah.

That was I was just going to say that's sort of exactly where BOCES came into play when it was founded.

It is to provide scalable resources to districts that might not be able to bring in a speech language pathologist for one student, or a special education teacher for three students, or an occupational therapist for a smaller group.

You know, within that particular district, it's a shared resource that all of the component districts in our area can benefit from under the umbrella of, you know, our services and then also receive aid as a result of that to support their, their budgets.

So you might have a teacher that works in multiple schools and goes around, so with specific to the BOCES model, we have special education sites or exceptional learner sites throughout our region and they are positioned for different learner styles, different, different IEPs as, as Eric was mentioning.

So depending on what the student's needs are, they are placed at one of our sites based on their age.

What special resources they might need.

Are they?

Is it a learning delay?

Is it a medical, delay that is causing some support that to be needed?

So because of those resources, we're able to bus those students to our sites and then provide them at scale.

Okay.

So you're not going to individual like honey, I one day Bloomfield.

Yes.

Yes.

So so yes.

And we do have push in services for for students as needed.

Occupational therapists speech therapists physical therapists, those do push in services.

And then we also have those, that support staff at our sites as well for the students that attend those sites.

Okay.

So that was just going to to the words out of your marathon mouth.

Eric.

Sorry about that.

No, that's okay.

I just wanted to add to that.

That is really the importance for that dual certification that our students are being certified.

We call it inclusive education so that they're certified not only in the gen ed, area, one through 6 or 7 through 12, but also in special ed.

And right now the state change the special education certification to pre-K 12.

So all of our students graduating will have that additional cert.

And sometimes, and I think you could help us with this too, that, you know, when we prepare our students to go out into the field to interview, we tell them, sometimes, you don't know, there could be multiple openings in the school, so be prepared to take either a special ed job or a janitor job because you just don't know what they're going to offer you.

So what?

I think sometimes that helps if they're walking in with two certifications, sometimes three, if they get their masters in literacy library media, they really are well qualified to teach a variety and diversity of students.

Okay.

So the term ink.

Oh go ahead.

I was just going to add to what Kathy said and say that is exactly what happens for us.

I can speak just recently where we hired a Saint John Fisher University graduate to be a special education teacher for us.

She did that.

And then there was a, opening in chemistry.

And so she had that decision of, do I want to move into the content area?

Do I want to say as a special education teacher?

But it allowed us that flexibility of then another shortage area, which would be those upper level science courses.

We already had someone in-house.

So it creates utility players within the district.

It's like a chess game happening all school year.

Yes, especially in the rural schools for sure.

Yeah.

And that's what I did want to talk about, that it does seem like rural schools and urban schools.

That's where the problem is.

The greatest for for special education, shortages.

Monroe County has shortages as well.

The suburbs do as well.

Yeah.

Yeah, especially in sport, special education and the high school areas.

As Eric noted, those are shortage areas.

So high school sciences and that kind of sciences, world languages, math.

Yeah okay.

Absolutely.

Boy, you guys have a tough, tough time these last few weeks of summer.

It sounds like.

Well, and it's about finding the right people to not just that they're certified.

Right.

Sometimes that can be challenging.

And do you have, or are you aware of schools that are doing exactly what we talked about that they're having to fill, not by choice, but by necessity positions with people who are not certified to teach in those areas.

So I can only speak from the BOCES lens.

We we don't do that.

You know, it's very important for not only the fidelity of the education that the students are getting, but also for the state requirement that our teachers are certified in the areas that they are providing.

Those services in.

So that's all I can speak to personally, I can say is a last resort.

So, for example, when we hired, last year, we hired a Spanish teacher as well at the middle high school level.

And it wasn't that she had no Spanish background or wasn't certified.

She wasn't certified in New York State.

So she happened to have Texas certification.

So we worked into her getting her New York State certification.

So there are avenues where we will hire someone that's technically uncertified for that particular content area.

But usually there's that caveat there in terms of that experience.

Okay.

And before we get into the solution, the Saint John Fisher University is looking at, let's talk about some of those other solutions.

You just sort of mentioned, one which is taking someone and developing them in-house.

What other kinds of things are schools doing?

And again, leave Saint John Fisher to decide for a minute.

We have a lot of time to talk about that, in terms of filling those positions.

You know, what we have started to do is have conversations with current employees.

So I'll give an example.

We have a physics teacher that retired, and currently we have not been able to fill that position.

But we're working with one of our biology teachers to get dual certified to now get her physics certification.

That gives us that flexibility of not having two full time employees, but also allows her to be able to teach bio for us, but also physics, doing a similar thing with one of our math teachers in business.

So really just trying to create and I think Debra referenced it as utility players earlier, just trying to get as creative as we can.

And then I think the even more difficult is once you get the people on board, it's making sure that you're retaining them and making sure that you have those systems set up, those mentoring programs, coaching, possibilities for people to grow and to thrive and to find, as Kathy would love to talk about, I'm sure that joy in teaching.

Yeah, I would echo a lot of what Eric just said.

So certainly the professional development side, we have a really robust professional development team at BOCES that not only provides those services to or that those resources to our internal employees, but also as a resource to the districts that we serve.

So that's an area that's personally a passion of mine.

So you mentioned in the intro recruitment and retention.

So we get them in, but we got to keep them here.

So those are the ways that we do that.

The professional development career path thing.

So we have a career pathway for teacher aides.

So teacher aides can come in with no certification.

In New York State, sort of minimum requirements for that particular role.

Those are one on one, aides that are supporting students in the classroom.

But we provide them with pathways to get teacher assistant teaching assistant certification, which not only comes with some additional benefits, additional pay and things like that, but also additional responsibilities in the classroom that can take some of the, the burden off of the classroom teacher and provide, a little bit more support to the classroom.

So it serves both sides right.

The teacher feels like, oh, I've got this life preserver, the teaching assistant that can take over a classroom or can run a program or build some curriculum.

But I also you know, I'm doing the same thing for the teaching assistant that's moved up in the organization.

So finding those pathways, finding the opportunities to, to, you know, give current employees resources to become dual certified or, you know, stretch their, their experience bringing on interns, you know, giving them mentor opportunities not only to kind of reach back and pull someone up, but also to feel like they are being supported in what they need as well.

So yeah, I, I echo what Eric says in that despite all these efforts, you know, you read a lot about teacher burnout, that a lot of teachers are reaching retirement age anyways.

So people are leaving.

But but that the profession in part because of the shortage and, and teachers are stretched maybe bigger class sizes, more responsibility.

Are you are you seeing a lot of that, that teacher burnout.

So I'll, I'll start.

So our classrooms, the exceptional learner classrooms, and we have both the special ed sites, and then we also have our CTE sites that are offering, you know, classes to high school juniors and seniors.

But I'll keep the conversation specific to the special ed.

Those are held to ratios.

So 611, classroom, six students to one teacher and one aide or one support staff.

So those numbers are the numbers that we hold to, and those are state required.

So in terms of class sizes, the more they expand we just bring in more people to support that.

Right.

The other side of the coin, with regard to burnout, I mean, yes, right.

The simple answer is yes.

It's a it's a it's a difficult job.

Specifically in, sites where you're dealing with students that have differing learning needs, and different behavioral needs.

It's, it's not a 9 to 5, you know, and, I think certainly the last handful of years, the post-Covid years, as everything has sort of been redefined and all of that, I think is contributing to some of that as well.

And maybe a teacher that maybe would have stayed a couple of years past their retirement age is like, you know what?

Know I'm good.

Okay.

So, so yeah, so it is creating a little bit of that, that, you know, that vacuum, of of talent.

But, you know, Eric, I don't know from your perspective, what are you what are you seeing?

Yeah, the the idea of burnout is real.

And I think that a lot of that it comes from different directions.

You know, Debra talked about educating in the post-Covid environment.

You know, we've had the increase of digital devices, although with, you know, the digital device band from bell to bell, that has actually proved to be very beneficial in a lot of ways.

But there part of it too, is the public discourse about education in schools that can make it challenging to recruit people to come into the field, to get people to talk positively to people about education, because there are so many great things, there is no other profession that you're going to be a part of those milestone moments in people's lives are every day is truly an opportunity to make a core memory for another person.

So it's continuing to speak life into why it's such an important profession, and for us as administrators to support our people, to make sure they're not getting burnout to anticipate those things that could cause burnout, creating those systems in those structures.

I know for us, our new to Bloomfield mentoring program goes beyond that.

One year requirement for the State Department has, and we will mentor all the way through four years until the teacher receives tenure.

But that support just doesn't end there.

And I think it's important that we are keeping an eye on our people and being responsive to their needs.

That's the biggest challenge to prevent that burnout.

Okay.

And we do have a student here who we're going to get to pretty soon.

But before we do, Cathy, could you shed some light in addition to the problems on the staffing side we have an increase in students being, included in special education with special education needs.

What's behind that?

Well, I think Covid is a little bit part of that, but that's going to end at some point that those students who were, in online, teaching in our classroom environments, I think that was a bit problematic.

So set them back in a developmental.

Yes, yes.

But we also have we also know more about students and learning and development and about why someone may not be learning in a typical fashion.

And so, that also could contribute to the number of students who we are seeing now being identified schools.

You know, we have so much more, a better handle on this.

The whole special ed process with identifying students, making sure that they, before they get referred to special education.

There's a lot of things in place where the classroom teacher gets support from others to say, have you tried this strategy?

You know, have you done this?

And they, get that support to try to maintain that student success in that gen ed classroom before they go through the special ed.

So we're just better at accepting, diagnosing, detecting disabilities before they become, a bigger problem.

Yeah, hitting them earlier and doing that.

Okay.

All right.

We're going to take a short break.

And when we get back, we will continue our conversation about special education and shortages.

We have Kathy Broikou from the Inclusive Childhood Education and Literacy programs at Saint John Fisher University, Debra Luna from the Wayne-Finger Lakes BOCES, Emma Spellman, a graduate student in the Inclusive Childhood Education Program at Saint John Fisher and Eric Vaillancourt Bloomfield Central School District.

But that's quite a mouthful here.

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I'm Julie Philipp filling in for Evan Dawson today.

And I just want to make a quick correction to a title for Kathy Broikou.

She is inclusive childhood and adolescence education and literacy programs at Saint John Fisher University.

I'm sorry about that.

All right.

So let's talk about that.

You have first you've had a program called and this is not the new residency program.

You have had a program called Inclusive Childhood and Adolescence.

Yes.

Whatever.

You tell me what it's called, make sure I get it right.

Yes.

It's a lot of work.

We we have had for quite a while programs in, inclusive childhood and inclusive adolescence.

And what that means is we're preparing teachers for elementary, middle school and high school.

And then we have an option to add the early childhood birth through to as well.

The inclusive part of it means that they, as we mentioned earlier, that they're not only eligible for certification in the gen ed classroom, but also special education, pre-K to 12.

Okay.

Are there anybody, any any teachers being solely certified in special education at Saint John Fisher or is it now part of inclusive?

It's it's got a new name.

Yes.

It's part of inclusive.

And that's right now through the state, you can not only have special ed, it has to be attached to, another certificate.

So, we, we had separate departments at one point, but long time ago, you know, the faculty got together and we really felt that the best teacher can teach, you know, all the diversity of groups of students.

So, so the departments were combined and it's called inclusive.

Okay.

Now.

And, there is research showing that when a student, student teachers in an area, they are more likely to stay and teach in the area than to go out of the area.

Is that what you see with your graduates?

Well, oftentimes they get offered a job once they're in the classroom and the administrator and the other teachers see how that person does.

And so, yes, I think that's true.

And in our traditional programs, they have, field experiences also that introduce them to different districts.

And then they do their student teaching.

And in one classroom, but with the apprenticeship program, it's okay.

So this is the new program.

Yes.

The Apprentice and that starting this fall last year, it started last year.

Okay.

Tell us about that.

So we had two residents last year in Bloomfield, and we have one resident right now in Hilton.

And it's, it's really thinking about how we can prepare teachers a little bit differently.

So instead of having your coursework up front, front loaded and doing a lot of learning, a little practicing, when you go out to the field, maybe 1 or 2 hours during the week.

The apprenticeship model puts that resident, that teacher candidate in that class, right in Brighton.

Just like I see the right.

Yeah.

Just like of the medical profession.

You know, you're an intern working under a mentor teacher, which is really exciting and powerful because the, resident is taking courses, at the college and they're teaching during the day with that mentor teacher.

So it's powerful because they're learning theory and other practice teaching practices.

They get to try that the next day or talk about it.

And then get that real time feedback from a mentor teacher who's experienced, so that process of coursework, practice, feedback, reflection makes for a really powerful, preparation program for, future teachers.

And we do see, the research does show that, teachers who feel more confident, who go through the year really seeing the highs and lows of the school year, they get to see, you know, how the school year, you know, goes.

And there are certain times, even for veteran teachers during the school year, that it's tough.

And, and so the resident gets to feel that experience that talk with somebody about that come out of that.

Yes, I love it because by spring you're coming out of it too.

So it's not something unusual.

It's not something a new teacher feels.

So this is just not right for me, because I think with the new teachers that attrition rate, you know, 3 to 5 years is one statistics statistic that I read.

So with the apprenticeship model, that transition and new teaching is really, going to be easier because they've already, you know, they're not just learning how to teach a lesson, make a unit, but they're learning how to interact with students, how to develop relationships with students, how to work with families, how to communicate with families about the special ed process, about working with administrators.

That's important to, collaborating with colleagues.

They're just seeing that whole day, whole year experience, which really develops that whole teacher, okay, become and and two things that I noted about this residency is one, they don't need their bachelor's degree in.

This can be an anything.

Basically they have to meet certain content requirements.

So if someone comes into the program they need a bachelor's degree to enter the program.

If they want to be an English teacher, they need to have so many hours and so many types of content courses in English to, be able to complete the program.

Many of them do from their bachelor's programs, or they might need 1 or 2 classes because of the certification and special ed.

They also have New York State content that they have to also have six credits in sciences, social sciences and math.

But most of the students, most of the undergrad programs provide that through their general ed program.

So most people come in with the necessary requirements.

They might need 1 or 2 courses.

They take, before they student.

I noticed in the publicity for this program that you're really seeking people who maybe didn't know they wanted to be a teacher until they started doing something else.

Is that that's true.

And that, I mean, we we would take anyone who's interested in teaching, but because career changers are, you know, a, a a possible, place to recruit.

That's true.

So, yes, people who never thought about it.

Sometimes I think what we're seeing, too, is, you know, people complete an undergraduate program and they start what they thought they wanted to do.

And 2 or 3 years out from that, they said, this is just not what I was thinking about.

And so then there's a lot of opportunity in teaching.

There are jobs.

There are jobs.

We're talking about shortages.

There are jobs.

And and this residency is they get paid.

Yes.

So there is a financial incentive as well as the preparation incentive.

So, it's quite and and the monies that they get is sustainable because it comes from the Department of Labor.

So it's not some it's not like a grant that's going to run out.

So about five years ago, the Department of Labor added teaching to the list of professions that would qualify for this apprenticeship okay.

So it's sustaining and you know we okay.

So this is a unique program.

Are you following another model or how does this compare to other.

Well the residencies have been around maybe for about ten years I think the apprenticeship started in New York State in 2021, but it's not completely new.

And there are other, apprenticeships around the state.

And we've had people from New York State, the hub that have been, you know, supporting us and really working with us to, you know, know the ins and outs.

So, okay.

Yeah, I'll say it's new to this area though.

Yes.

So we are sort of the this the group you have around the table right now.

We're sort of pioneering this for this particular region.

So we've a little bit been changing the engine of the plane mid-flight and we, I think have been doing it successfully and as proof in that, in that, but yeah, in terms of incorporating that program into our region, it's, it's been relatively new and sounds exciting.

Yeah.

Very exciting.

Well, we have Emma and I want to go to Emma.

She's over there in the corner.

Give us a little background of of what your, undergraduate degree is and what got you into this inclusive program?

Yeah.

Of course.

So I actually started at Fisher.

It's for my undergrad.

I originally out of high school.

I was like, I want to do pharmacy.

That was my like, I'm going to do it.

I Fisher has a great pharmacy program and I also wanted to play soccer.

So kind of all just fell right there.

And it was 30 minutes away from home.

It was perfect.

So I went into that, played soccer, I did my undergrad and Fisher was like a two plus four program.

So two years went to grad, four years of grad.

I got into it.

I was like, okay, so challenging, but it's okay.

Like, I can I can do hard things.

But then I ended soccer my senior year and I just was not loving it anymore.

I could not find the heart in me anymore to study, to even enjoy what I was doing.

And I was like, I don't want to finish this program just to say I finished it.

I did it, I pushed through it.

I wanted to actually love what I was doing, and I had friends and we would study together and everything, and they were like, so into it.

And I was like, I just, I don't feel that.

So the conversations with my family, with myself, I was like, I am going to step away.

It's super hard that your senior year, you're like, oh my gosh, four years in and everything just kind of stopped for me.

And like, soccer ended forever and I've been playing forever.

So I feel like my whole life just completely flipped.

So then I ended up dropping the program in December of 2024, and I was like, oh gosh, what do I do now?

So I ended up taking the spring semester off and kind of like, move back home, had lots of conversations with my family, and I just like, needed to find my passion and where my heart truly was.

And I kept I kept going back to teaching.

I even before, like in high school, I loved going to school.

I, I've always loved going to school and it was just always my happy place.

I always created great relationships with my teachers.

I still talked to my first and second grade teacher.

I still talk to her to this day like I have created such good relationships.

And I realized I want to be the like a teacher that I had in my past.

Like I want to be that for a student and a child.

Coming up through the education program.

So I actually ended up reaching out to the education department at Fisher again, because I, I love Fisher.

It's it's been great.

And so I was like, I just want to reach out.

How do I finished my bachelor's in pharmaceutical studies?

How do I become a teacher from that reached out to them there we have this program inclusive childhood or adolescent program.

Reach out or like, we can get you all set up and start you in the program in the fall.

And I was like, perfect.

Sounds great.

So then I jumped right into that and here we are.

And all these opportunities have kind of aligned and all the stars have truly aligned with us.

And I definitely feel like this is where I want to be.

Okay.

So you've done it for a year.

Yes, yes.

What is the experience been like?

So I actually started the apprentice program in January.

So I'm doing the January and then I'll be back with the same mentor teachers this fall.

But being in this program in general, just like the Inclusive childhood education program at Fisher, has been amazing.

I mean, the professors that I've been with, my cohort, we are so close and it's people my core or ages ranging from my age to moms and dads that are just coming back because they want to become a teacher.

And that's where their heart lies.

And it's like, so cool to see that people are.

So they're coming back to teaching.

Like there's still people that are coming back to this and it's it's been really, really cool to know.

When she was talking about the experience of being thrown into a classroom full time, seeing the highs and lows.

Yes.

What are some of the moments that stand out the most for you?

Both high and low?

Yeah, for sure.

I mean, definitely coming from having my bachelor's and something that's not education whatsoever, I've truly never been in a classroom besides being a student, so I've never really been on the other side of it.

So join the surprises program.

I was like, yes, like, I want to do that.

I want to be in the classroom as much as possible, getting as much experience as I can.

So being in it has truly been amazing.

My mentor teachers are fantastic.

I could have not asked for better mentor teachers, but honestly, like the students make it.

I mean, we were talking earlier and you could be having the worst day ever and it's just like one thing after the next at the next, and you're just so tired at the end of the day.

But a student comes up to you and gives you a hug or just says, thank you for doing that, sir.

Even just smiling at you and like, see you tomorrow.

Like all the things that the students do, it truly makes you want to come back the next day, no matter how hard of a day it may have been.

And I, I mean, I feel like you hear teachers say that all the time, like all the students like, truly.

But when you're in it, like, truly, the students are the reason that you come back the next day and the support from your, coworkers or colleagues like my the team that I'm in, they meet every week and they just sit and talk.

And it's just a such a supportive environment.

I mean, teachers get it like you're going to have rough days, but you have the support of other teachers that are going through the same thing.

And again, the students and the relationships that you build are just ones they always remember.

Do you get any, concern, particularly from other teachers, that that this is great.

It's going to help fill a void and in special education.

But are they fully qualified if they haven't gone through the intense education process that we're used to?

So there is that expectation that they're not.

That's almost the entry fee, is that you're bringing in someone who is moldable and is eager to learn and is is fresh in their career.

So I think it also for the teachers that we have partnered with, the mentor teachers that we have working with, with our apprentices right now, they are passionate about creating this new class of educators.

And actually we had, we have another it's funny that you mentioned, you know, people coming in with bachelor's degrees and something completely different, the apprentice that we're onboarding right now for the fall, or a new apprentice that we're onboarding, studied sports medicine.

And then she was like, I don't want to do that anymore.

And so, but in that interview, the conversation with, with her mentor teacher was very sort of symbiotic in that the teacher was saying, listen, I've been doing this for a long time.

There's new things that I don't know.

And so you're coming from the classroom with these new techniques or new thought processes or, you know, activities to do or things like that.

You're going to provide some infusion of sort of novelty to what I'm doing to, so there is a bit of a give and take in that.

Yeah.

And I was just going to say that's where we have learned throughout the last year the importance of that matching process.

And that's where this collaboration with the university, with BOCES and with the districts and with the students and with the teacher is so important, is so that that expectations are clear, right?

So it is a known that the person coming in does not have a background in teaching, but what a journey they're going to be able to go on.

And having that reciprocal relationship of both being able to learn along the way and this kind of this is shifting gears just a little bit, but we we do have a comment from a, listener that, email from Kristen.

Can your guest speak to the fact that many special education students are mostly in general ed classrooms?

How are gen ed teachers being prepared to understand and meet the needs of special education students?

Now, it sounds like some of these, and residencies can help, you know, with that.

But how how does that happening?

If you answer that.

Sure.

Because whether they're in the residency program or the traditional program, they're all being prepared to teach.

So if they're a Saint John Fisher, gen ed teacher, they general and special education.

So they really are one of the best teachers to put, you know, someone who has dual certified Fisher.

I don't want to just say, you know, others, but people who have that double certification and triple I mean, there are ways to get a third certification, are the best people to have in that classroom because they are going to be able to teach students who are in the range of, you know, but if you've already got a Gen ed teacher who does not have the dual certification but has kids in her class that have not yet found a spot, what happens?

That's where the importance of continuing that professional learning, as a school system, is important to make sure that that you are responding to what those students need.

And then when you look at that, is the teacher equipped with that?

And if not, how do you support them in in getting equipped with that.

And we we're very, very intentional about the classrooms where we have students that have disabilities, that where they're placed.

Right.

We want it to be in the right place with the right teacher who can meet those needs.

And as with anything, there's always that learning process that we go through in terms of helping our teachers meet the needs of the students in front of them, whether or not they are a student that's classified with a disability or not.

It's that continued learning, that lifelong learner that we we really celebrate and continue to make sure that we are, doing as organizations for our people.

Okay.

And so am I. You you've been through a year.

You have a few months left in and yes, I got you in December.

You did?

Oh, in this this coming December, you graduate.

So what's you've done your residency for the past year in BOCES?

I've done.

So I did my I started the residency in January, so I went January.

You have another and then I'll be back in the classroom.

September.

December.

Okay.

And what's your plan after that?

I don't know yet.

I mean, there's graduating in December.

Has pros and cons, I mean, pros.

There's always subbing positions.

There's always I mean, maternity leave.

People have there is a high demand for subs.

Yeah, right.

Exactly.

So shortage.

Right.

So being available for that is always awesome.

And then it does give me an opportunity to kind of look and see the options that are around and what openings are available, and then come hiring time and then be ready for potentially my own classroom in next fall.

And do you plan to stay locally?

I plan to.

I don't really know if that's a forever thing, but for now, for now, and so what?

And not based on location, but what's your dream job?

My dream job would definitely be in probably a third or fourth grade classroom.

I think I've definitely found a newfound love for special ed.

I did summer school in Hilton this past summer in an 811, and I loved it.

I truly, I was just I was just an aide.

I was just with one kid.

But I had so much fun and they they are so much fun.

I mean, they they they want to be there.

And a lot of the kids had trouble leaving school because, I mean, you never know what they go home to.

So being that safe place for them and an opportunity to listen to them, and they might not speak their needs, but they might show it in another way.

And being able to identify that could really help create a relationship that supports them.

Okay.

Okay.

Kathy, how many students have gone through the inclusive program, the residency program.

Oh, so since last year?

Three.

Three our first three resident and how many are coming up so far?

We have five.

Okay.

Coming up for this next year.

So not huge numbers, but but you're getting started and you said you're still tweaking how it works.

Yeah.

So the first year was a lot of administrative left.

So a lot of paperwork, a lot of and I have to give a shout out to my director, Joe Engelbert, because he and I were sort of in the trenches with a lot of the administrative side of it.

But, now that it's off the ground and we have this, not only do we have the great partnerships that we have, but we know the flow of how it all goes.

It's now it's just a matter of getting the word out.

And so, you know, we're thankful to Emma and our other two apprentices this past year who are a little bit of our test subjects.

So we were getting it up off the ground.

But it's been successful.

And I just want to say for Emma, I know that she's being a little bit humble, but the other piece of this for the apprentices that are coming out of it, talk about references.

You're getting feet on the street, real life experience that she can take to her next interview, or if, assuming she's not completely scooped up before she even graduates, which is likely.

But, you know, these are it's so much more than I think this person would be great.

It's I saw this person being successful and learning and growing.

So, you know, she's just she's really set herself up for a really amazing launch after graduation.

Yeah.

Okay.

Did you have, a resident in Bloomfield?

Yes, we had two residents in first grade last year, Mitch and Kate.

And did a fantastic job.

And really getting to see them learn and grow throughout the year was an amazing experience.

And that confidence level that came as the year continued to progress and watching those partnerships grow, but not just their learning with the classroom teacher they replaced with, but how they really started to partner and learn with people from all over the building.

It was it was a really awesome to see.

And so what schools in the area are willing to accept or asking or a part of this program?

Well, since we're just beginning, we we really couldn't have done it without Wayne-Finger Lakes BOCES.

You know, we have such a great relationship with Joe and Debra and Bloomfield and, so the districts within the component districts within Wayne, Finger Lakes are the first districts that we would go through since that's our partner, BOCES, that we're working with.

That doesn't mean that we can't cross contract with other districts like Hylton that's outside of Wayne-Finger Lakes.

So we have other districts, that are also interested and that we are in the process of onboarding.

I'm not sure if that's the right word with the districts, but other districts that are interested outside of Wayne, Finger Lakes, that Joe and Debra do their magic.

You know, it's it's hard.

You know, everything takes time.

And process.

And we were thrilled to have three last year.

And five is a really good number for us this year.

And it's finding that match too.

Right.

So some students might not want to be in a particular classroom or the, the, the district might not have a teacher that meets the needs of wanting to bring in an apprentice.

So it's a little bit of a matchmaking that happens to.

Yeah.

Are these all, rural schools right now?

So our districts are predominantly rural, within the Wayne-Finger Lakes region, but that it isn't, specific to that we just, because of our footprint have just happened previously.

Yeah.

And just thinking of the benefits, you know, when you look at the districts in the region in terms of BOCES, in the university and then the state level all working together, the benefits are immense across the board.

And then with for the student that is going into the program.

But really thinking for us as a rural school, you know, challenging budget times for us, and how can we keep a level of support for students high while at the same time confronting budgetary realities?

So this has been a a win win in so many ways for us.

Okay.

And we have an email here from Charles.

He says, I survived 31 years in the city school district, but taking care of myself physically, emotionally and mentally after work, it was a second career for me, so I was a little better prepared than kids.

Right out of school.

I had kids in my own and and boy, there were times when we get home from work just wanted to collapse, but couldn't.

I completely understand why people do not want to go into teaching, especially with the situation with tier six, and that's a whole other topic.

So we're not going to go about it.

But he says, good luck to everyone, including you.

Thank you.

But he's from the city school district, is there, you know, and there's clearly rural districts are on the one hand, because they're a little farther from, the schools and a little farther from from where people want to live when they're young.

But also the Rochester City School District is is really challenged with this issue.

Will the residents be going do you have any kind of partnership in the works with the city school district?

We're open to it.

We don't have a formal and no, with the resident apprenticeship program.

But we're open to it and we keep exploring additional districts.

So there's never I never say never.

Okay.

Okay.

So it might be out there.

Can you talk a little bit about the experience of matchmaking in Bloomfield, of finding you had two residents and finding teachers that.

Yeah.

So last year in this year have been very different experiences.

You know, last year it was really you know, we were putting it together quickly as we're like, yeah, we are all interested in.

So we reached out to our elementary staff and said, here's what we're looking to do.

You know, are there people that would be interested?

And then from there it was thinking about who makes sense to partner.

And then we thought it would be a unique opportunity to place them at the same grade level, so that they'd be able to collaborate and go through that experience together and talk about it together.

This year, we're in a very different place because we we, we have proof of concept, right?

A handbook has been developed.

We have that working relationship, we have a set process that we're following.

And so just thinking about when we interviewed a couple weeks ago and we're like, okay, we think this person is going to be the right match.

We're not sure.

And then getting them at the table.

And I think Debra was referring to this earlier.

It was just evident that, like these two people are going to work well together.

And so afterwards when, you know, we're on the district side going, so what do you think?

Would they be a good match for you?

And then, the university side, they're doing the same thing.

And it was just.

Yes, absolutely.

So it's like dating in a way.

Absolutely.

It's like I'm Chuck Woolery in this scenario.

So I'll be back in two.

And so, Emma, yeah, it sounds like you made a great match.

You had a very good experience.

But you also have people like Charles and you hear stories.

Like what?

What?

You brought up here in terms of, the horror stories about teaching it.

Yeah.

How are you feeling?

Any regrets?

Do you feel like you're going to have to do something to make sure your mental health is good?

You know, what are you prepared for?

Things not to always be shiny.

Absolutely.

I mean, I definitely have no regrets.

I am very, very excited to step into this profession.

And yes, there are horror stories.

I mean, there's horror stories everywhere, everyone and every position, our profession, somebody is not happy with where they are.

And I am just very happy if it isn't that I decided to make well, it seems like a good move for you.

Thank you.

Thank you so much and thank you all for being here.

We have had in studio doctor Kathy Broikou, Associate professor and chair of the Inclusive Childhood and Adolescence Education and Literacy Programs at Saint John Fisher University.

Deep breath Debra Luna, recruitment and retention specialist at Wayne-Finger Lakes BOCES.

Emma Spellman, graduate student in the inclusive childhood and adolescence Education program.

And Eric Vaillancourt, director of teaching, learning and accountability for the Bloomfield Central School District.

Thank you all for being here with me today, and thanks for everybody behind the scenes making this happening.

And our listeners, I appreciate you joining me this week.

Evan should be back on Monday.

I hope you have a great weekend.

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