>> Your monthly heating bill could be going up.

That's if the Illinois Commerce Commission approves a 202 million dollar rate increase for people's gas, which supplies natural gas to nearly 900,000 Chicagoans.

The company says it would mean a monthly bill increase of about 10 to $11.

Meanwhile, Nicor gas, which has 2.3 million customers in Northern Illinois is also requesting a rate hike of 221 million dollars.

The company says the increase would add less than $6 to monthly bills.

Both companies say the money will be used to upgrade infrastructure as a matter of public safety.

Here's David Schwartz with people's gas.

>> We must have a safe, reliable heating system in Chicago.

The pipes currently running underneath the ground.

We're nearing the very end of their useful lives and the closer it gets to actual end of their useful lives, which is coming before too long.

The risk of an issue becomes a much greater concert.

>> Joining us, our apes car director of the Illinois Public Interest Research Group, a consumer advocacy organization and Jim chills and communications director for Citizens Utility Board.

We should note that we did invite representatives from both Nicor gas in Peoples Gas.

Nicor did not respond, but we do have a statement from a news release and people's gas declined our invitation but did do a zoom interview with one of our producers earlier today.

I think both of you for joining tonight.

So I want to get both of your reactions to what we just heard.

What is your response to the idea to the request from both peoples and nicor gas companies that these hikes are necessary to improve infrastructure and prevent a public health issue.

All start with you.

Please.

>> So the utilities are responsible for maintaining safe and reliable infrastructure.

But this should be put in the context of the multiple rate hikes that these utilities have already put into place over many years like or his raise rates already by 137% since 2017 and people's gas rates have effectively doubled over the last decade.

And we believe that while there is some important need for investment in particular and people's gas with their old iron pipes.

lot of times what we found is there over investing in spending wastefully ways to drive up their profits and drive up our bills.

But don't necessarily deliver those safety improvements that they're talking about, Jim?

Yeah, absolutely.

>> You know, they always talk about maintaining the system.

Everybody agrees at the gas companies need to maintain their system, but they should do in way.

That doesn't think bankrupt customers.

And that's what's been happening.

We have a good portion of Chicago and reheating affordability crisis right now.

These companies have been on spending sprees over the last 10 to 15 years.

And they've increased rates.

They've doubled rates in that time.

And at the same time, they've been making monster profits, people's gas has made record profits 7 out of the last 8 years.

People nicor gas over this time city.

It's been raising rates multiple time since 2017.

It's think raked in profits.

Its parent company's made profits of about 30 billion dollars.

So this company is rolling in profits.

>> Jim, as we mentioned earlier, if approved that people's gas rate hike would add about 10 to $11 to the monthly a heating bill.

How does that increase students who into sort of like the broader picture of rising costs for other necessities that lots of people are experiencing.

And what kind of burden might that make for household?

hit the nail on the head.

We're already seeing people.

>> dealing with an affordability crisis threatening a hard time paying the rent or having a hard time paying for groceries and prescriptions.

And now you're going to add, you know, for people's gas.

It's 10 to $11 per month Nicor gas.

It's about $6 per month.

Granted, they just got 168 million Dollar rate hike which was about $4 a month.

If you add those 2 together, that's about a $10 month increase.

People call us and say what the heck is wrong with their gas bills.

And we'd say these companies have been on spending sprees.

Is it possible that they underestimated when they went out for the most previous to the most recent?

>> rate hike or remain.

It's, you know, and this is, you know, speculation, but where they you know, well, you know, they're not going to that win.

That big.

So let's start small and incrementally increase or did they just underestimate what they believe they need They asked for about twice as much as they got in the last rate hike and parties like the Citizens Utility board only per the office.

Illinois attorney general were able to.

>> We believe document that lot of that spending that they were requesting was unnecessary.

That rate hike was unnecessary.

And regulators of the Illinois Commerce Commission agreed and cut MicroStrategy by roughly 50% and to come back months later and ask again, I I think shows a lot of it spent.

>> I mean, they might say it is a reflection of the fact that they needed what they needed in the first place.

But let's hear from them because people's gas says that the rate hike is needed to comply with requirements from the Illinois Commerce Commission.

Let's listen.

>> No, like Commerce Commission directed us to retire more than 1000 miles old eroding iron underground pipes from Chicago's heating system.

This is a large-scale complicated construction.

The ICC said accelerate a deadline for completing it.

That is why we filed this request to be able to do the work that the ICC directed us to do.

>> Yeah, the ICC did not order them to do business as usual business as usual.

It has been this company overspending in over budget and being behind schedule.

ICC's order said let's do this in a timely and cost-effective manner.

Let's consider things other than just replacing prime pipes.

Peoples.

Gas just gone forward with a business as usual format.

And that is what's leading to these multiple rate hikes.

>> Been response to people's gas to announcement.

Illinois Purdue Road quote, despite people's gas spending billions of dollars on pipe replacement.

Multiple outside expert reviews have found the program was not improving.

Safety in proportion to the utilities spending or the improvements that the company is making.

Are they are they reflective of the money that they're spending and asking for?

>> We don't think so.

And that's what the experts found as well, that they've been spending a lot of money.

But when you look at the feel your rates of the pipes, the risks they're supposed to be addressing.

We haven't seen that improvement in safety and any proportion to the billions of dollars they're spending and with the ICC said in this order was we need you to change the way you're doing this program.

Focus more on those risks and don't necessarily default to replacement as the only strategy to address those risks.

And we think there are other more cost effective strategies that will actually address those risks make us safer without bankrupting Chicago gas customers.

The ICC is expected to review people's gas.

Their request over the next 11 months.

What are you doing to make your case and what are some of those other >> improvements that changes that you think they can make that would cost less?

Will we?

In Covent others will hire experts and we have lawyers will be part of the process to make our case.

And it's just starting we're going to spend.

>> The next couple months really digging into the details.

Some of these other alternatives include pipe realigning this and inserting a liner into the pipe.

The can eliminate leaks and extend the life of the pipe by 100 years.

And it eliminates one of the biggest costs of pipe replacement, which is and one of the biggest inconveniences jacking up the streets and replacing all the infrastructure in the streets.

We also think in some circumstances we should be looking at electrifying some homes transitioning off the gas system, especially again, if it's more cost effective really reduces that safety risk that's inherent in any gas electricity is a whole other conversation.

We just had that last week as well with regards to data centers and their impact on the electricity grid.

>> But moving over Nicor gas because they are asking the ICC for a 212 million dollar rate increase that would allow, quote.

>> To continue making strategic investments that help enhance the safety, reliability and resilience of its natural gas system, especially during extreme weather while also complying with state and federal safety standards.

Jim, I just want to look at the big picture to big gas companies asking for millions and millions in rate hikes.

What would you say?

This is a reflection of we would say it's reflection of greed.

Unfortunately, in.

>> Consumers are hurting over this.

It's actually even worse with Nicor to 221 million dollar rate hike request Tanner to $11 a month or excuse me a $6.

And, you know, he's you know, overall what's been happening we've been seeing is that gas companies not only in Illinois, but across the country have been going on a spending spree.

They've been spending a lot for on work and that they do that because they can make a return on that and they can make higher profits, both peoples, gas and nicor gas are asking for profit rates for their shareholders of well over 10%.

That is absolutely excessive.

And that's one of the things we're going to be focusing on in this rate case.

>> What's I guess what's been your to it tonight, Chris, requesting this justification?

Well, the thing to remember with Nicor is unlike people's gas, they do not have a large volume of old at-risk pipes they dealt with those years ago.

What they've done is taken the opportunity by a now defunct state law to ramp up their spending to more than triple their annual capital.

Spending at for reasons.

Jim articulated and now was over and they dealt with some of their safety risks.

I think they're spending should go back down.

They want to create a new normal where they can fire rate hikes every year every other year basically take as much money out of northern Illinois as they can.

seconds left, one of the company's argues that compared to other major cities and metropolitan gas prices here still relatively low.

>> And they The gas company should talk to the people who called Cub who far too many are struggling to afford their bills.

They leave out conveniently the fact that there are large portions of the city that are in the heating affordability.

Affordability crisis in November alone.

About 150,000 people had 65 million in debt with this company.

It's it's they're going overboard, OK?

All right.

That's where we'll have to leave it.

best of luck