>> Workers are pushing back on the pending closure of State Bill Correctional Center near Joliet employees rallied last week outside the facility which is slated to close by the end of the month.

The Illinois Department of Corrections has already begun transferring more than 100 men to other facilities.

Advocates are raising concerns about the location of these facilities and the impact it'll have on those behind the wall as well as the employees.

Joining us now with more are Anders Lindell, Public Affairs director at asked Me Council 31, which represents roughly 10,000 employees who work in Illinois prisons.

Jennifer Bollin Katz, executive director of the John Howard Association of Illinois.

And On Zoom, Christina Rivers, director of DePaul University's Institute for Restored of Educational Engagement.

Thanks to all 3 of you for joining us.

And Linda, let's start with you, please.

We know that see has already started transferring out of state bill to other facilities around the state.

What are your members saying about this expedited transfer process so far?

>> So hundreds of employees from state bill were out on an informational picket line last week and their message was clear.

No chaos and no layoffs.

But the headlong rush by the department into this process to empty out state bill to reclassify the incarcerated population to send them up to hundreds of miles away to medium security, even minimum security facilities.

He's actually causing the chaos and creating the disruption that should have been avoided more than 70% of the individuals incarcerated at Stateville are from the Chicago area.

They're now being sent 20300 miles away, making it much more difficult for visitation.

We're going to hear, I think about from Christina, how the great educational programming at staple is being undermined.

And of course, nearly 500 jobs for half members who are excellent work force that provides that rehabilitative programming, education, health care and more at Stateville is being threatened at those workers been given any sense or notification about where they will be located or transfer to as far as warning throughout.

There's been a sure an says from the department that there will be a employment available.

>> But they not offered a lot of specifics.

And they have often said, well, maybe it would be in Sheridan or maybe it would be in Pontiac, which is an hour or more away.

>> From state bill, the majority of state employees actually live in Cook County.

They don't live in will county.

So they're already driving.

45 minutes on a good day.

Chicago traffic worse than that.

Just to get to work than work 8 hours behind the wall and drive back home 16 hours.

If you have to work a double shift and if you're having to do that while driving 2 hours each that is not acceptable.

And 68 deal is the closest to Chicago.

Obviously anything that's not state bill, it's going to be longer than that hour and Jennifer, John Howard Association, you all have done numerous reports over the years in the past, outlining the conditions and state the what?

>> Your reaction to the decision to finally empty out to close state bill and rebuild it.

Well, I think the most important thing is the health and well-being of the people who are incarcerated in the people who work at Stateville.

>> And it's been made abundantly clear both by the John Howard Association reports and recently by the CGL report, the independent contractor that did a full infrastructure assessment of all of the Illinois State Prisons.

Steve Earle is not a safe place to be.

There is plaster falling from the ceiling.

There's bird excrement there.

The conditions are inhumane and unsafe.

And so while there is complexity to emptying out the facility, there's also good reason to be doing that and transferring people is something I do.

You see does every single day and reclassifying and reviewing where people should be.

What's appropriate is also something they do every day.

And I understand that state bill benefits from community resources and its proximity to Chicago.

And it has had the most post-secondary educational opportunities of any prison in the state of Illinois, which is wonderful.

But you don't keep people in unsafe conditions for that.

You expand programming to the other facilities.

>> All the IOC, they claim to rebuilding will take 3 to 5 years.

That's that's just a 5 Is that a realistic timeline to rebuild state Colin entire prison?

You knew I was thinking about it and I was trying to think about the timeline for the facility most recently built in Illinois, which was the Joliet inpatient treatment center, which was built do that, which is next door to staple.

It is it's close by >> And it looks to me if I peace the timeline together from the I do see announcement to shovels in the ground to opening the doors.

It looked to me to be about 4 years, 4 and a half years.

So 5 years may be realistic it's hard to now.

>> Christina Rivers, tell us briefly, if you would about the programming that you work to provide the men who are incarcerated in state bill.

>> So pomrenze, the inset out prison exchange program and we bring traditional campus pay students into cars, rule spaces, such a staple in Cook County Jail.

And we offer courses to combined groups of students there.

We've been doing this since about 2012.

I also supervise or coordinate a long policy think tank that grew out of the courses.

I teach their online politics that's been running very steadily since about 2016 or so.

We usually meet twice a month, sometimes once a week in the summer.

>> And what is see told you about the status of that programming?

Once the men are no longer in state bill and had been scattered to different facilities around the state.

>> Well, we've requested to keep our cohorts together.

Those who are in think tank because it's been an ongoing project for several years to our understanding they're doing their best to keep that core together.

But we have noticed that several the men in our cohort have been transferred to other institutions.

Some at the request of those folks who are in different programs.

But others were not sure why.

And the closest location that we've been offered is that he'll which I think is also Galesburg Correctional Center, which is about 3 hours away.

That would, of course, make it much more difficult for us to run our programming, particularly to recruit outside students who have the time in this schedule and faculty to basically do a 6 hour round trip course to take classes they were committed to making this work.

But that's what dealing with right now.

So obviously some to some challenges.

if this gets confirmed for you.

>> Anders, you all are advocating for a different plan rather than closing the facility altogether.

What is that?

>> We thought that all the >> building of a new state bill is a good thing necessary due to the years of neglected and deferred maintenance at the facility.

Jennifer made reference to some of that.

I'm not sure that the conditions are quite as bad as she stated.

Our members are working there.

24 7 and they would not want to be working somewhere.

That was a threat to their well being.

But the Department of said, look, it's going to cost 400 to 500 million dollars to build a new facility it would cost 12 to 30 million dollars to do the emergency maintenance that's needed now, that amount seems like a pittance.

Let's do that.

Emergency maintenance that's needed now we can keep state bill opens Christina can provide her services.

Members can have their jobs.

People can be close to their families and build a new state bill next door.

Then when it's completed, we can move over seamlessly without all this disruption building next door, your front of the 1000 or so acres that on the property are sitting empty.

>> Jennifer, is that feasible considering that a federal judge has said that the that the conditions are uninhabitable, move everybody out.

right.

It's no longer feasible.

This is no longer a calculation by the Illinois Department of Corrections.

A judge intervened in rule that it that the facility should be.

>> Andy, by the end of this month, so he doesn't really even the conversation about whether it should happen or not is a little because it is going to happen based on a court order.

But I disagree that the conditions are are not as bad as maybe I previously stated in the staff wouldn't want to go to work there if they were as bad.

Yeah.

I have talked to many people inside that facility over many years and it is a dangerous place to walking to simply based on the conditions of that facility.

And I've talked to many men in that facility who have told me that they would rather transfer to a different facility for their health and safety and well-being.

Then stay there because of the programming.

It's unclear how many unique individuals actually benefit from the programming it state Phil and something we need to consider in this conversation.

And want to give you a quick second to respond.

And then I went to Christina and before we run out of time just quickly, I do think we need to consider the impact on other facilities as well.

>> These receiving facilities are severely in some cases dangerously understaffed already.

What is the impact on the ability of those facilities to maintain safety for the incarcerated population and for the employees.

>> Cristina Rivers, if you would, we've got about a minute left the significance of being able to provide.

I apologize.

The significance of being able to provide the programming that the receive in-state felon.

Why that's useful to them.

Why you do that?

Well.

>> It's well documented that college and other types of programming reduce violence in prisons and that it reduces recidivism on the part of of those when they're released.

That's well documented.

I also want to add that stay feel is, you know, I have seen signs of that.

It is really to crafted.

So I do think it is a place that needs to come down.

I on the threat and the yield there.

It's it's hard to figure out how to do so without harming the positive programming that happens there.

You civic engagement there.

I often joke that for every one person is taking a class.

About 5 other people are taking one.

Family members have reported, you know, their kids being encouraged to go to college or to go back to school, said the Israeli Prime example people We sharing it with other people that they are in cars are a lot of their fans as well.

>> That's where we'll have to