- [Narrator] Funding for this edition of State of Affairs with Steve Adubato has been provided by Holy Name.

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[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC] - Hi everyone, Steve Adubato, back by popular demand.

You like that, Senator?

- I do.

- Senator Tony Bucco is the Senate Republican Leader.

Senator, good to have you with us.

- It's great to be with you, Steve, always.

- We've had you many times talking about wind, solar energy, alternative energy sources.

You've been very critical of the Murphy administration, very critical of the Board of Public Utilities, and it looks like public opinion has shifted.

A recent poll put out by the folks at Monmouth, respected polling organization at Monmouth University, show that support for wind energy, offshore wind energy, has dropped dramatically.

Why do you think that is?

- Well, I think people are starting to pay attention to exactly what this radical energy master plan that the Governor has is gonna require of them.

You know, they're starting to learn about the mandates that are already here and that are on the horizon and they understand that it's gonna be a tremendous cost to every homeowner and every resident of the state.

And when you consider that people are living paycheck to paycheck, you know, we're talking about some large costs here to the low and middle income families.

- You know what's interesting here, Senator?

Some folks are gonna agree with what you're saying, but what struck me, and, again, we're taping this program later in September, 2023, we just lost a terrific public servant, Joe Fiordaliso, who was the President of the Board of Public Utilities.

We'll do a separate feature on Joe's public life and the impact he had.

One of the last things he said publicly was "stop the lying."

And you saw the quote, and he was referring, if not to you directly, you and others who are saying, "Hey, Governor Murphy's coming for your stove!"

Not true, exaggeration, hyperbole, and scaring the heck out of people.

You say?

- Well, first let me say, you know, Joe was a consummate public servant.

I mean, all over, his touch and his reach around the state of New Jersey.

So while we may have disagreed on policy, I respected him tremendously.

And, you know, I will admit that as of right now, there is not a mandate for the administration to come and get your gas stove.

- Right, you have a choice!

- Right, you have a choice, but I can say this, that in order to reach their goal of 100% electrification by 2050, there's no way that it can ultimately be a choice forever, it just can't because people will never, never shift from their gas appliances and their gas generators and those things.

And you see the mandates now are starting to creep in.

Right, now you're gonna have to have an electric vehicle by 2035, right?

That's gonna be your only choice!

- Senator, "have to"?

- Well, you're not gonna be able to purchase an electric vehicle after 2035.

- But y'know what's tricky?

- I mean, that's clear.

That's absolutely clear.

And that doesn't even include having a hybrid, right?

That's not included in the mix.

I think what we're saying is it's too much too fast and we don't know what the costs are gonna be.

- Well then, how fast, Senator, I'm sorry for interrupting, Senator, then how fast, what pace?

Because climate change is real.

You're not a denier.

- No, absolutely.

- You know it's a problem.

Global warming, real.

We've have real issues.

So if what the Governor and the Board of Public Utilities is proposing under their clean energy plan, and to disclose we have a grant from the Clean Energy Program to do public awareness around clean energy, which also means we have people on who have different points of view, that being said, well, then what pace is appropriate?

- Well, I think the first thing we have to do is nail down what the cost of this program is gonna be to the average resident.

We still don't know that and we're still going full steam ahead.

We need to know if this industry is even viable.

Governor Murphy and five other Governors in the Northeast just the other day sent a letter to Washington asking for more money.

You know, that's on the heels of Orsted saying we're gonna pause this for a year because of supply chain issues and inflation.

- By the way, make it clear, Tony, Senator, that Orsted is one of the leading corporations involved in wind energy.

They're saying they're having a tough time, that the market is not what they thought it would be, that the cost is what it is.

So Governor Murphy and other Governors have gone to the Biden administration and said, "we need federal support for this."

So what's wrong with providing government subsidies to an industry to help it get off the ground if, in fact, the potential down the road is a cleaner environment?

- This is the problem.

Somebody's gotta pay for those grants.

Somebody's gotta pay for that money that is coming in to support these foreign corporations.

And that's you and me.

It's the taxpayers.

That money comes from either increased electric rates or from higher taxes.

So, again, I get back to this issue of let's know what we're getting into before we drive full steam ahead.

And the Murphy administration continues to say they ignore all of that, they continue to say they want to be the hub of this industry, of this wind industry, and I'm just concerned it doesn't become a crash zone, and that's where I'm at.

I mean, there are things we could do.

I'm not saying we need to stop it, but we should certainly pause it and give the legislature an opportunity to review some of these very critical issues.

There's red flags all over the place that this industry is in trouble and that this is gonna cost our residents, especially the low and middle income taxpayers, a lot of money.

So we need to be careful on how fast we go and we need to know how much it's gonna cost.

- Senator, before I let you go, let's shift gears dramatically.

We have an initiative helping to educate the public around childcare.

We actually are taping today, we have United States Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill talking about the federal government and federal funding of childcare initiatives around the country.

And she says we're facing a childcare cliff, we're about to fall off that cliff.

Translation?

- Well, listen, childcare- - Commitment to childcare in terms of state support, Teresa, Senator Ruiz, one of your colleagues, the leader in this area, we've had her on, check out those interviews, but from the Republican Party's perspective, where is the place for government investment, public resources going to supporting childcare centers, particularly those in the poorest areas in the state, please, Senator?

- Well, look, we have to provide for childcare and there is a spot for the state to do that, there's no question.

You know, we learned that during the COVID crisis.

You know, parents need to be able to get out to work.

They need to be able to go to work understanding that their child is being taken care of safely and at a cost that they can afford.

So there's definitely a spot for that, especially in the urban areas, and I look forward to working across the aisle with my colleagues to make sure we have a sound plan to deliver that for our residents.

- As always, Senator Anthony Bucco, the Senate Republican Leader, we can't thank you enough.

And also share with your colleagues, they should come on.

We need to hear all different perspectives from the Democratic and Republican party, particularly in the State Legislature.

Thank you, Senator.

- Thank you, Steve.

It's always great to be on with you.

- You got it.

Stay with us.

We'll be right back.

(grand music) - [Announcer] To watch more State of Affairs with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- Folks we're now joined by Anjuli Ramos-Busot who is the director of the New Jersey Sierra Club.

Their website will be up right away.

Anjuli, great to have you with us.

- Thank you Steve.

Thank you for having me.

- You got it.

Describe the work of the Sierra Club.

- Well, we are the oldest nonprofit environmental organization in the country.

We basically we're founded with the creation of national parks in the country and ever since, we've been dedicated for the protection of our environment in centering environmental justice and all the work that we do.

Sierra Club has an office in every state of the country.

So we focus on local work at the same time as federal and national work.

- We've had several members of the Senate in New Jersey, particularly Republican senators and others who have argued that the Wind Energy Initiative that's been put out by the Board of Public Utilities and the Energy Master Plan, the Clean Energy Initiative, and Governor Murphy, in fact, that the plan as it relates to wind energy is losing popular support.

The Monmouth University poll showed that support has dropped dramatically and those senators have said, "We need to pause.

A moratorium.

Stop wind energy initiatives now because A, we don't know what it costs, and B, we don't know what it's doing to whales."

Loaded question, I know.

Go ahead.

- Very loaded.

Thanks, Steve.

So I wanna start by the recent polling conducted by Monmouth University.

Unfortunately, and this is the saddest thing that has happened to the offshore wind development in the country, is that it has become partisan.

What the polling does show is that we still see Democratic support for the initiative, for transitioning away from fossil fuels into renewable energy like offshore wind.

But the support has definitely decreased from the Republican side of things.

So what it does show is that it's significantly partisan as we can see from the Republican leadership with their concerns and all of the opposition that we've been experiencing these past couple of months to address the impacts on marine wildlife.

I think it's been said quite a lot that there is no evidence at all that suggests that offshore wind surveying work is the cause for the unusual mortality event for whales in the New York, New Jersey Bight.

What there is a lot of data showing is that unusual mortality events for whales is they're happening across the entire country and it's way more complicated than just one variable.

- Anjuli, at the same time I appreciate you using the term partisan and to disclose we have a grant from the Clean Energy Program to do public awareness around clean energy issues with no particular point of view.

Obviously, from our perspective is to educate folks.

And one of the things we need to educate folks about is that in some cases this is not partisan, that the leader of the state senate in New Jersey, Nick Scutari, the leader of the General Assembly, Craig Coughlin, are also saying, "Time out."

- Yeah.

- "We don't know what's going on and we need to pause before we move forward with wind energy initiatives."

They're the two most prominent Democrats in the state.

So it isn't just Republicans.

Respectfully, please.

- Yeah, no, that is a great question, Steve.

So what I have to say about that is that the opposition is very public, it's very loud, and as responsible politicians and responsible elected officials, they're responding to the concerns of their constituents and that's their public announcement that they had, I believe like a month ago.

And this is just to ensure that everything is being done responsibly.

And I believe they were specifically talking about tourism impacts.

And I wanna assure everybody that all of this is being considered while conducting the permitting and the evaluation of impacts, not just to the environment, but also to the economy of the Jersey Shore and all of the towns that are going to be involved in the development of this industry.

So they want more answers, but the answers are coming, the answers are part of the entire evaluation.

- Senator Declan O'Scanlon and Senator Tony Bucco, two leading Republicans in the Senate said, "Look, Steve, why can't we just level with people about the quote 'cost' of this to frankly homeowners, renters, others" Because what Bucco and O'Scanlon argued is when I questioned, said, "Wait a minute, why are there ads out saying the governor's trying to take your stove?"

They said, "No, it's not mandatory now.

But with supporters who are in the governor's ear, sooner or later it's gonna come to a mandate and they are gonna take your stove."

You say?

- I think that is completely unreasonable and impossible.

There is no action to which anyone, the stove police, as we call it, is gonna come into your house and take away your stove.

What it has been shown is that actually electrifying your appliances is better for your own health.

So we are increasing awareness and education as you were just saying, Steve, about the benefits of such transition to electric appliances and that is what the Murphy administration is very, it's doing very well.

And so it is up to the consumer to do that transition.

No one will ever take your stove away or any natural gas appliance.

It's really up to the homeowner.

- What about the cost issue?

- The cost issue- - There's a good percent of the senators are saying, the Republican senators and others are saying, "Hey, level with people about the cost."

Why don't we know the cost?

- Well, I think we're all experiencing huge inflation.

We've been experiencing supply chain issues since COVID.

It's impacting every single industry in the country.

It's impacting us directly with our daily actions.

So it is naive to think that this is not going to impact such a big industry like the offshore wind industry.

This is something that it's starting from scratch in New Jersey with huge economic opportunity and economic benefits for the entire state and the people that are gonna be employed by this.

So as any industry that it's starting, it needs help, but it's also starting in a really tricky timeline with inflation and supply chain issues.

- But, but, but here's the thing that is really confounding to me.

Governor Murphy and other governors who are engaged in wind energy initiatives, renewable energy initiatives, are moving to the, are sending a message to the Biden administration, "We need help.

we need more federal help."

- Mm-hm.

- Orsted is questioning, "Listen, we don't know what's gonna happen."

Orsted's one of the leading effort, leading corporations involved in wind energy, that they may not make it in this market without government support.

So if the market is so strong, if the economics make sense, then why need more federal government subsidies?

- Well, the market is definitely going to this direction, but the problem is how the bids were locked in and at the time that they were locked in, it wasn't foreseeing the inflation and the supply chain issues.

And so they need to have help in order to be able to employ and to create these contracts for all of the pieces, all of the manufacturing portions of it in order for them to construct.

I believe Orsted has come out and said that construction will continue.

- Right.

- But instead of being primarily starting like right now in fall, it's gonna be primarily in 2024 and slipping into 2025.

I do appreciate what Governor Murphy did with the letter with other Northeastern states asking the federal, you know, the Biden administration for help in many different ways.

I think we do need the help and this is not just Governor Murphy's initiative, right?

Offshore wind is a national initiative, one that the Biden administration is championing.

So I do believe that we do need more help from the federal government and I hope that President Biden hears this call for action and actually helps us because we definitely, Orsted cannot make it and we cannot bear the cost of this.

- Anjuli, I thank you for joining us.

It will not be the last time.

Anjula is the director of the New Jersey Sierra Club.

We'll continue the conversation, this ongoing issue.

Thank you so much.

We appreciate it.

- Thank you, Steve.

- Stay with us, we'll be right back.

(grand music) - [Announcer] To watch more State of Affairs with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- He's back.

State Senator Paul Sarlo, deputy majority leader, chair of the Senate, Budget and Appropriations Committee.

Everything you need to know about money in New Jersey or lack thereof.

Good to see you, Senator.

- It's great to be back with you, Steve.

- You got it.

Let me ask you this, Senator, on the fiscal side a lot of federal money coming in, COVID money.

That money's ending.

There are a whole range of folks we've had on that said, that say New Jersey is in a dangerous fiscal situation because we've counted on all that federal money for so long and the spigot is dry.

You say.

- Well, listen, I think, you know, you're gonna have those naysayers who are gonna say that you know, with the federal dollars we've been living off of the federal dollars.

Clearly the infusion of federal dollars during the pandemic and post pandemic has been been a tremendous help to our budget.

But I think through the appropriation process we have been very wise and strategic on our investments.

We've also created funds.

I don't want to get into the weeds, but debt defeasance funds where we have put away money for future investments and infrastructure.

And we also have record surpluses, over 10, close to $10 billion in surplus.

Never been heard before in the state of New Jersey.

So we've put money away for a rainy day.

So I disagree with all those who say now that the money's dropped off, New Jersey is going to fall off the cliff.

Clearly we need to be a lot more smarter going forward and control and watch our spending.

But I think we're primed for any blips in the economy.

- Senator, we've been doing a whole range of programming over about four years now on childcare, accessible affordable childcare, Reimagine Childcare is our initiative.

I know you've worked closely with Senator Teresa Ruiz who's been a leader in this regard.

How do you see the quote, state's commitment financial commitment to supporting the childcare community accessible, affordable, quality childcare when in fact some are arguing that the feds, we don't know what they're gonna do in this regard.

And the state money is more important than ever before to keep those childcare centers alive and thriving so people can work?

- Well, first of all, my colleague and my good friend Senator Ruiz has been a champion on this front.

And as somebody who sits with her as part of the leadership team, she reminds us every day about the importance of this issue.

Clearly we can't rely on the feds, right?

You can't rely on the federal government for a lot these days.

So we need to ensure that we're constantly finding ways to get creative to provide child tax credits to ensure folks are comfortable with the childcare that their sons and daughters are gonna be receiving and allow them to go out and get a good day's work and get a good paying job.

So, New Jersey, I believe, is on the forefront across the country when it comes to this area.

- I mean, going all the way on the other end of the spectrum.

You have spoken out and acted on end of life care issues.

Talk about your commitment to end of life issues and the dollars that you've put, that you and your colleagues have put behind it but largely because of your efforts, please.

- Well, yeah, we've come full circle right from childcare to this.

- Yep, yep.

- I will tell you this, Steve.

The Villa Marie Clara Hospice Center at Holy Name Hospital is something that I think everybody in the legislature should take a trip up there to see.

Because when you see what's going on there and the care that they're providing people at end of life is just amazing.

They're compassionate to not just to the patients but to the families themselves.

And it is a much simpler and more compassionate way for families to be with each other instead of being in that hospital setting or being in that stressful nursing home setting.

And we know all the issues that are happening with our nursing homes.

So I've been a champion.

I've been a champion for hospice, but I've been a champion for Villa Marie.

They do it right and we've been supporting them through the state budget.

I wanna thank my colleagues and I wanna thank Speaker Coughlin and Senate Presidents Scutari this year for supporting me on a $4 million grant that went to Villa Marie this year.

- Let me also disclose that Holy Name is an underwriter of our public health programming.

Senator, let me try this.

Parental rights, parental notification, the fight going on, the debate going on.

What should parents, in your view, Senator, what should parents know and when should they know it as it relates to their children in our public schools and at what age if that child is talking about a gender issue, a gender identification issue, a sexual orientation issue, what are the rights of parents and what should be the rights of those children to be protected?

- So I'm a dad, right?

My two boys have graduated from public schools and have moved on.

My younger boy now is in the United States Naval Academy.

He is a midshipman and very proud of him.

And my other son is working in the engineering field.

But I will tell you this, as a parent, as a coach for many years, and I've coached against you on the ball field.

- Yes.

- I remember those days.

- Senator Sarlo is noted for his work in the Senate but even more so as a baseball coach developing a lot of young men and women.

Keep going, Paul.

- But I will tell you this, I believe in parental rights.

I want parents to know what's happening with their child.

I feel strongly about it.

There is a lot of conspiracy theorists out there.

Those who are champion, you know, those who are behind this.

I think a lot of it is a lot of made up conspiracy theories.

But I will tell you this.

I will always side on parents knowing what's going on in the schools and what their children are learning.

I believe parents have that right.

And I will always side on that side.

I side with the parents.

I think our education department should focus more on the STEM, our classes, our math, our sciences, our Englishes, our English, our foreign languages.

Focus on that.

Allow some of the local school board districts the ability to to have a say on what those children are learning.

So big believer, big supporter of making sure parents have the right to know what their children are up to.

- And now that our programming will have a whole range of people with different points of view on this issue.

That's what our role is.

Senator, talk about this.

This happens to be the Star-Ledger.

It's online, it's in the record.

The newspaper based in Bergen County as well, where you are.

The federal government blast state on safety of vet homes.

The federal government, the Department of Justice, came in and did scathing report about veterans homes and how New Jersey did not take care of our veterans, particularly during COVID.

Too many, they died.

Many died.

Many died needlessly, according to the federal government.

A, how credible is that criticism in that report?

And B, who's responsible?

- So we were ill prepared.

Our veterans homes were ill prepared.

Just like many of our nursing homes around the state were ill prepared to deal with the COVID response.

Some of these, I guess what's frustrating to me is some of the issues that have been laid out in these reports are just common sense things that could have been taken care of by the people who are on the ground operating and managing these facilities.

We failed.

We clearly, we failed, we failed on these veteran homes.

We're a failure.

And we need to do better.

We need to take a closer look at through the budget process as well of how we wanna manage our veterans homes going forward.

We have three of 'em in the state.

And once we get them back up and running and have all of the protocol, proper protocols in place, are we gonna set up a separate department?

Are we gonna leave 'em with Department of Military and Veteran Affairs?

Should there be a monitor and overseer?

These are all things that need, we in the legislature need to decide now but we failed and we need to, we need to fix it.

- And we'll continue this conversation with Senator Joe Cryan who's a leader in the Senate in this regard.

And we'll be talking to him as well.

Senator Paul Sarlo, Deputy Majority Leader, Chair of the Senate Budget and Appropriations Committee.

Senator, thank you so much for joining us.

We appreciate it.

- Steve, it's always great to be with you.

- You got it.

See you next time folks.

- [Narrator] State of Affairs with Steve Adubato Is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by Holy Name.

Rowan University.

IBEW Local 102.

Johnson & Johnson.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

The Turrell Fund, supporting Reimagine Childcare.

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NJM Insurance Group.

Eastern Atlantic States Regional Council of Carpenters.

And by these public spirited organizations, individuals and associations committed to informing New Jersey citizens about the important issues facing the Garden State.

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