- [Narrator] This is a production of PBS Charlotte.

- Tonight on "Unspun," there may be no tougher job in North Carolina politics than being mayor of Charlotte.

Every decision is scrutinized.

Every success is expected.

Every problem has someone demanding an immediate solution.

Well, coming up, I'll sit down with a man newly appointed to lead the Queen City.

In today's America, welcome to the spin game.

Believe me, I know, I'm Pat McCrory.

When I was governor and mayor, I played the spin game, I was played by the spin game, but aren't we all done being spun?

Let's take the spin out of the world we're in here on "Unspun."

(dramatic music) Good evening, I'm Pat McCrory.

Charlotte is no longer just North Carolina's largest city.

It's an economic engine for the entire state and nation.

What happens here influences job growth, transportation, housing, public safety, and even the political debate in Raleigh.

But leading a city of this size has never been more challenging.

Populations continue to grow, infrastructure struggles continue to have tough times keeping pace, and affordable housing remains a major concern.

Can Charlotte continue to grow without losing the qualities that made people want to live here in the first place?

Well, let's ask new Mayor Rob Harrington, the person chosen to serve out the term vacated by Vi Lyles.

Mayor, it's great to have you on the show, and thank you very much.

- Thank you for inviting me, Mayor McCory.

It's great to be here.

- Well, first, thank you for willing to take on this major assignment.

For at least, what, 18 months?

- 18 months.

- 18 months.

First of all, why?

Why did you decide to step up?

- I think it's a time that the, my strengths from having practiced law, having led a lot of initiatives in the community here, having worked across the state with the North Carolina Bar Association, I looked at it and I thought some of that skillset that you bring of, you know, bringing order, hopefully convening people, and getting to some reasoned end would fit with this 18 months as, you know, Mayor Lyles' retirement onto the next council and the next mayor.

So, you know, I was one of the, what, 119 people or so, who applied for the position and fortunate to be selected.

- I saw your speech that you presented to the city council and you were concise, you were to the point, and you were a visionary.

And I think they made a great selection.

How did you come up to this conclusion?

Did people approach you, including my good friend, Richard Vinroot, your good friend, and our good friend, Harvey Gantt?

Did people first approach you or did you kind of go, "I might be interested in it," or was it a combination of both?

- Yeah, I think probably a combination.

I, there were a few people who approached me.

I would say, that, you know, Mayor Gantt, Mayor Vinroot, both of whom were good friends.

Mayor Gantt's a longtime friend, and Mayor Vinroot is a law partner and good friend, were both really good sounding boards, but there were a few folks in the community who said, you know, "Would you consider this?

Have you considered it?"

My family, particularly my wife, Sharon, were very, very supportive of the effort, even as I went through the process of deciding.

I mean, you know, I've been practicing law in Charlotte for 27 years.

I've been practicing for probably 10 more than that.

- You were head of the Bar here - Yeah.

- in Mecklenburg County.

I think in the state also.

- I was both.

I was President of the Mecklenburg County Bar several years ago, and I just finished a term as President of the North Carolina Bar Association, the voluntary Bar of, you know, 14,000 plus members.

And, you know, I'm also at a time in career when I though I could do this, right?

- [Pat] Yeah.

- I mean, I've, you know, I'm gonna practice for certainly a while longer.

But I thought this was a time to give back some to the community that's been very good to us.

- You talked about wanting to convene people.

Well, you just recently did this.

I read about an article where you, I think it's the Tuesday Morning Group, which I've spoken to many, many years ago.

You spoke to a group.

Is it still off of Beatties Ford Road?

- It is now in the same area, - [Pat] It's the West Side?

- but not at the same location.

It's West Side.

- I used to speak at the old restaurant off of Beatties Ford Road there.

- Yeah.

And Mrs.

Stevenson, you know, ran it for years.

It continues to, - Exactly Sarah Stevenson.

- continues to run, yeah.

- So you said something very interesting in that meeting.

He says, "We need to give each other some grace."

I thought that was very interesting in reading.

What did you mean by that?

- You know, we are facing and I, you know, face the same thing in other organizations, but this is on a broader scale and an even more important scale, we're facing, you know, a series of important decisions.

You know, you've mentioned that we're now a city of nearly a million people.

We are, you know, the 14th largest city in the country.

None of the decision, the major decisions that we have are easy, and I think we have to step back, and assume that all of the voices are coming at it from deeply held beliefs on any of these issues.

And if we can assume the best in each other, we'll, you know, we'll go further.

- So Bill Lee, my mentor, like Harvey maybe is your mentor, in my third week in office, I went up to visit him in his cubicle that he's a retired CEO of Duke Energy.

And the first question he asked me was, "What have you screwed up on already?"

And I remember look, you know, this is at a time when everyone was kissing up to me, telling me how great I was, and it was the best question I ever got as the new mayor and only been in office three weeks.

Have you screwed up on anything that you revisit and go, "God, I wish I would've done that differently," even after such a short period of time?

- You know, it's early, not that I know of yet.

What I guess what I'm learning is just how fast the decisions that you make and the statements that you make travel.

You know, I've been a lawyer for all these years, by nature, careful with words, and so hopefully that tamps it down some.

But just realizing you are in the spotlight, you volunteered to be in the spotlight, and you just have to act accordingly.

- And the internet moves quickly.

- The internet moves incredibly quickly.

- I didn't have to deal with that in '95.

I had to deal with that in 2008, you know?

It's amazing.

- You barely had to deal with emails in '95.

- I was the first mayor to have emails, - Wow.

- and a computer on the desk.

My 10-year-old nephew had to show me how to use it.

So that was quite interesting.

You've got some major challenges on your plate, even during your short 18 months, that decisions have to be made.

One of them is transportation.

Probably something I helped put on your lap.

Started with Governor Easley, went to Governor Perdue, went through Governor Cooper.

Now Governor Stein and the new mayor is having to deal with toll lanes.

How are you gonna do deal with this?

Because I failed in dealing with it.

A lot of people say it was the reason for my defeat in my reelection campaign.

So you know how it's a political, terrible political issue on both sides.

How do you want to deal with that during this process of decisions?

- Yeah, I mean, I, this is one of the many issues where there are just a lot of very strong feelings on all sides.

There's a community that, you know, fresh in many folks' minds is still what happened when 77 was driven through the neighborhoods there, through McCrorey Heights and other neighborhoods.

And that concern about what will happen, particularly to residents and folks in the neighborhood is still there and it's still fresh for a lot of folks.

You know, I think the job of the city in this process going forward is to make sure that we're getting, you know, solid information from the state and that we are seen as a honest broker and provider of information and engagement within the city, and then let the process play out.

As you mentioned, it's got to play out in a relatively short period of time.

- And it's a regional and state decision too.

In fact, I got to give the city a little defense.

This has been on the state plan for 20 years.

I mean, through four governors.

And the state's been kind of silent on this.

Of course, when it was presented to the city council, kind of at the last moment, everyone went, "Oh my gosh, gambling in Casablanca."

Well, it's been around, but I think due to the political factor, everyone was stepping back.

Now it's in your plate.

- It is here.

It's in front of us.

I mean, you know, obviously city council made a decision in, I guess, in May - Yeah.

- on it.

You know, there remains, you know, probably decisions to be made given what's in the budget bill and the timelines that the budget bill indicates.

And you know, I think we're just in a position where the community's gonna have to be heard and council's gonna have to figure out, you know, whether to act and how to act.

- What are some other major issues that you're going to have to deal with, even in your short 18 months?

- Yeah, I mean, a couple come to mind.

You know, we've got a current moratorium on data center permits.

And that's an issue, as you know, all over the country.

I mean, if you pick up the paper.

- It's a zoning issue on steroids.

- Exactly, right?

With the impetus of great change.

I mean, it's being - Yeah.

- driven by other great changes in our society with artificial intelligence and sort of our digital world.

But we've got to approach that as best we can on a local level to, you know, make sure that folks are equitably, are fairly enjoying the benefits, but also that we are fairly protecting our residents from the downside as much as we can.

And, you know, they're, you know, the city.

- It's the same dynamics, NIMBY versus economic development.

- It is.

- Or is it more than that?

- No, I think it is, but I take it down - NIMBY means - to the individual, right?

not in my backyard.

- Not in my backyard.

- Right.

- But, you know, I take it down to the individuals is where should these, you know, buildings be located, but perhaps, even more than that, how do you regulate them, right?

- [Pat] Yeah.

- So what restrictions is the city able to put on the development, of particularly the large data centers, when they're in neighborhoods and they're affecting, you know, people and their families?

- One of the great joys I had during my 14 years was bouncing this off of other mayors.

Have you, are you gonna have an opportunity to meet other national mayors for the mayor's conference to maybe go, "What are you doing in Phoenix?

What are you doing in Nashville?

What are you doing in Dallas?"

Other cities comparable to Charlotte.

- Yeah, I think both on a national and a state level.

So, you know, they're the the State League of Cities and National League of Cities.

And I'm eager to participate in both, because that issue in particular is one, that's a national issue.

- Yeah, the US Conference of Mayors I was very active in, but it's nice in just dinners to bounce off, and plus you get friendships forever, - Yeah.

- even if you're here 18 months.

- And again, I think it's also very important on a state level, because so many of these issues affect one way or another the entire state, and we need to, you know, I've put an emphasis on making sure that we understand what's going on across the state of North Carolina.

- So another job of yours is building relationships with Raleigh and DC.

Any thoughts there?

Because as I said in my top five, it's the mayor who represents the city.

Whether it's in a charter, it doesn't make any difference.

You will represent the city when meeting with Governor Stein, meeting with the head of the State Senate and the State House and in DC.

What are your thoughts in establishing or reestablishing those relationships?

- Yeah, I, have, you know, had the pleasure of knowing the governor, at least from a distance for some time and - Right.

- had interacted some with his father.

You know, I look forward to continuing to work with Governor Stein.

And also to getting to know people in the legislature.

I had some interaction, at least indirect, as President of the Bar Association - [Pat] Yeah.

- over the last year.

And you know, this is, it's one state and it's.

- Well, that meeting, that building is a block away from the state legislative building and the, it's next door to the mansion.

- Well, so that's the State Bar.

- Oh, that's the State Bar.

- The Bar Association is out in Cary.

- Okay.

- But same principle applies.

I spent a bunch of time in Raleigh.

And these are just, you know, these are relationships.

I think Mayor Lyles did a fantastic job of building and maintaining relationships with leaders across the state.

And I think it's incumbent on the folks who follow her, including me, to do the same thing.

- You told me right before the show that you've talked to Richard Vinroot and Harvey Gantt.

We're talking to each other for the first time.

Have you thought about going back and maybe the history and going, "How did you handle this?"

Have you asked Richard that, for example, - Yeah.

- and Harvey?

- You know, I've had.

- Harvey Gantt, Richard Vinroot?

- Leading into, you know, as the council was making its elections, I had, you know, good conversations with both of them.

You know, I certainly intend to lean on them for their reflections and their council, as we move forward over the next, I guess now 17 months.

But both of 'em are great friends.

- In the remaining minute, what do you think the number one priority is for the city, and what is your vision for our city, both as mayor and as a great public servant and citizen?

- Yeah, for me, those things collapse and, you know, we can talk about, you know, data centers and we can talk about I-77, but I think it's adjusting to being a city, a very diverse city of a million people.

And how we address each of these situations hopefully sets a model for how we address situations going forward.

How we talk, I keep saying, with each other instead of to each other, how we share amongst the whole, and whether that's neighborhoods, grassroots, business, instead of feeling like we're giving to.

If we can work on that model and improve it, then, I think we'll have success over the next 18 months and set us up for success going forward.

- In the remaining 30 seconds, you're gonna have a lot of people running for mayor who serve on the council.

Oh my gosh.

I've had to deal with that before.

Are you gonna get involved in the next mayor's campaign at all, or are you just going to stay away from the politics, or you don't know at this point in time?

- You know, my goal at this point is to stay away from the politics, but try to manage the process, so that folks who are stepping up to run feel like they get a chance to be heard.

Each of them gets a chance to be heard, but the city's business gets conducted.

- Mayor, again, thank you very much for willing to serve.

You're mayor for life, don't forget that.

- Thanks for having me here.

- Appreciate congratulations.

(dramatic music) All right, the "UnSpun" top five countdown starts right now.

The top five little known roles that the Charlotte mayor actually gets involved in.

Start out with number five.

Number five, he leads all weekly city council meetings.

Well, what's the big deal there?

Believe me, during my 14 years, I had a few occasions where the mayor could actually lose control of the meeting.

But I'm proud to say during my 14 years, I never once used the gavel, never once, because I figured by the time you use the gavel, it's too late.

You've already lost control.

But it's a very important role, especially for our new mayor coming up.

Number four, determines all committee and seat assignments.

You think, well, what's the big deal about that?

Believe me, determining committee assignments is a big deal because it's political, and you're dealing with city council members' egos on what committee they get on and who's the chairman of those committees.

And also seat assignments, what's the big deal?

Believe me, it's a big deal.

I put Al Rousseau, then Mayor Pro Tem, on my one side for one reason.

He was deaf in one ear.

And I put that ear on the other side with Ella Scarborough and I could tell Mayor Pro Tem how to vote.

Ella couldn't.

It worked.

Ah, a little strategy there being mayor.

Number three, represents the city to state and federal legislators and the White House.

This is a very, very important job, because only the mayor can speak for the city in front of the state legislature, the governor, even the President of the White House.

They don't want to hear from city council members or the city manager.

It's the mayor who represents the city and the mayor has got to be a strong salesman.

Number two, front person for prospective business prospects who want to consider Charlotte to bring their business to.

And this is where the real sales job that a mayor must have is when they meet with these CEOs, and even the board of directors of these major companies throughout the United States and the world, they're looking for the mayor to have confidence, to have, give them confidence that Charlotte's being run the right way.

And number one, declare state of emergencies.

Yes, there's always going to be major emergencies due to major storms or major violence or manmade disasters.

The mayor is the lead during these events.

(dramatic music) Time now for our 1-on-1 segment.

Welcome the editor of the "Charlotte Ledger," a great, great publication, by the way.

Let me brag on you a little bit.

- It's fine.

- Tony Mecia, Tony, great to have you back on "Unspun."

- Great being here, governor, thank you so much.

Enjoyed your conversation with Mayor Harrington.

I guess it was the first time you two had met.

- I think we had met casually - Okay.

- in the past.

- Well, you had a conversation.

- We don't know each other.

- What was your impression sitting down?

- I think he's a perfect choice for this temporary job.

He has the maturity.

He has the professional background.

He has the historical perspective.

And I think that's what's needed now during this, especially with a campaign coming up to take his place.

It's gonna be, it's gonna be interesting to see if any of the challengers, four or five people on the city council, it's gonna be a democratic infighting.

Will he get involved in that or will he stay away?

I asked him that question.

I gave him an out.

- He said he would stay away.

We'll see what happens, right?

- We'll stay away, but there could be pressure on him.

His endorsement could make a big difference in this election.

And I think knowing his background with Harvey Gantt and Richard Vinroot, he's gonna want to pick someone who can represent this total city in a mature way.

- Well, it seems to me, he's a little bit out of central casting, like in terms of like an old school kind of mayor.

He has, you know, credibility in the business community, connected to the community.

He's been on a lot of boards, library board, Arts and Science Council.

- Well, I got something else out of him, which I don't know if anyone's asked him.

I said, "Did you do this or did someone approach you?"

And I knew deep down someone approached him.

He was with Robinson Bradshaw.

He and Richard Vinroot are very good friends.

He and Harvey Gantt are very good friends.

I wouldn't be surprised if those two and maybe a few others in the business community came up to him and said, "What do you think?"

- Is that usually how it goes?

- Cause these things, yes.

- I mean, someone comes up and says, "Hey, you've been doing this great job as a community organizer."

- I think that's.

- They pull him in.

- Well, you know, I've seen a dynamic.

Sue Myrick, who we're gonna have on a future show as pioneer in politics, was really the first maverick and community organizer.

Before that, we always had business people with a lot of academic, business, or legal background.

I had a lot of business background.

Sue was the first not that way.

Well, since then, we've almost had all community activists, and we have no diversity of business for legal people really left on city council, school board, and county commission.

And plus, we're all one party now.

It's all Democrat.

So maybe the new mayor brings back a little bit of diversity and balance in that area.

Not saying the community activists aren't needed, because they were.

- Right.

- But now we also need someone who can read a budget.

- Well, we were talking in the control room watching your interview saying, and some of the comments were, "Wow, he has a great voice."

And he has sort of a gravitas to him that I think you were saying, it's important for our time right now.

Is that a big, being able to carry yourself in front of the cameras and instill confidence, how big of a deal is that?

- Absolutely.

And I think the real test will become during a controversial city council meeting, where he's gonna have to turn to some council member who's crossing the line in behavior and go, "We're not gonna have any of that."

And will that person then challenge them even more?

That's where your real credibility came.

During my 14 years, I kept control.

Only one time, I had one council member come and whisper in my ear during a very contentious meeting, not publicly, but in my ear, "I'm gonna to kick your butt."

I'm toning it down.

- Right.

- Whispered in my ear during, in the parking garage after this meeting.

I'm.

- Do you want to name names?

- I'm not gonna mention a name, but another council member came up to him and said, "Get back to your seat.

We're not gonna put up with that."

So I had protection too.

And I'll never forget Council Member Sellers protected me from that council member who was, you know, these things get emotional.

They get personal.

- Well, it seems like the role is also to be the adult in the room, - Yeah.

- 'cause things can get, things can get emotional.

- You can't lose that as mayor.

And Vi never lost that.

And I hope the mayor, the new mayor doesn't lose that either.

- Is it limiting to him to say he's not running?

He has 18 months.

He's already kind of a lame duck.

Does that diminish his power?

- That's a great question.

I think there's a pro and con to that.

I think all these people running for mayor are going to be respectful, because the good news is he's gonna be on a honeymoon.

People are gonna go, "You better not jump on this new guy who volunteered."

But in the other regard, the other council members are gonna go, "You're out.

We don't have to worry about you."

I go with the first, that people are gonna have a difficult time challenging him, unless he does something foolish between now and then, which I don't expect.

- Right.

- But, you know, the toll lane is gonna be tough.

- There are a number of issues coming up.

One of the things he said in his interview with you, and he said as a lawyer, he's familiar with being careful with words.

And that's one thing that struck me watching interviews.

It's hard to get news making bits out of him.

And for not being a politician, he has this ability.

- Where lawyers are, Roy Cooper has that ability.

Stein has, a lot of lawyers.

Richard Vinroot had that ability.

I did not have that ability.

I spoke by mind and there's a pro and con to that.

Usually, you look for the middle ground, and but.

- How do you decide when to speak your mind and when to say something that's very talk, you know, the lips are moving, but you're saying nothing where the, - Yeah, kind of like - an old rock group.

- oh, we need to bring people together and we need to reach consent.

And it's things that sound nice and don't say anything.

How do you choose?

- It's intuition, and sometimes you get it right and sometimes you don't.

- So final question.

What would your advice be to Mayor Harrington?

- My advice would be to convey a vision for the city of Charlotte.

To me, that's one of the, you know, my vision for the city was to have the best of Mayberry Metropolis.

The quality of life of a small town will retain our neighborhoods, will retain our public safety, where we have good schools, but also have big city opportunity.

I think we've lost some of that vision.

We need a 25-year vision for the city, and he might be the guy to present that vision, while also dealing with the everyday issues at this point in time.

I don't know, what do you think?

- Yeah, I mean, I think you got to come out, articulate a vision.

I mean, part of it is being a referee of this council.

Part of it is, I mean, there's, you wear a lot of different hats.

And so, you know, he'll be tested, I think, on a lot of them.

- I think what's going to be interesting too is how's the media gonna treat him?

That's gonna, are they gonna give him a 18 month honeymoon, or are they gonna challenge him?

That's the, I think that's the million dollar question.

Thanks so much.

- Thanks a lot.

- [Pat] I appreciate it.

(dramatic music) This September marks the 25th anniversary of 9/11.

Before 9/11, Americans expected their mayors to run cities.

After 9/11, they expected them to lead through crisis.

Why?

One name, Rudy Giuliani.

Yep, when terrorists attacked the Twin Towers, the mayor of New York City became the first public face of the crisis for millions of Americans.

Standing amid the smoke and the chaos, he told the country what was happening.

He showed courage and empathy and reassurance when people desperately needed all three.

He became more than a mayor.

He became the voice of a wounded city, and in many ways, a shaken nation.

Days later, he even appeared on "Saturday Night Live."

It wasn't about comedy.

It was about giving a grieving country permission to laugh again and confidence that New York City would recover.

His approach changed the job of mayor forever, everywhere throughout the country.

Back home in Charlotte, I was the mayor during this crisis and immediately realized our community would expect the same kind of leadership during any major crisis.

People weren't looking for political speeches.

They wanted answers.

Were the airplanes at our hub airports safe?

Were our nuclear power plants potential targets?

Should people evacuate uptown's high-rise buildings?

Were our schools and our water systems safe?

What about our houses of worship, including both the Jewish synagogues and Muslim mosque?

These questions couldn't wait until the next city council meeting.

They had to be answered immediately by the mayor.

And as mayor, I learned that in a crisis, information is reassurance.

People want facts.

They want honesty.

And more than anything, they want to know someone is in charge.

Often they simply need a verbal hug and sometimes even a physical one.

It was one of the most stressful periods our country has ever faced, and one of the most challenging moments of my time as mayor.

Since 9/11, Americans no longer expect their mayors to just fill potholes or approve zoning cases or cut ribbons.

They expect mayors to lead through the unthinkable, and that's exactly what the job has become.

Mayor Harrington, we wish you the best, and thank you for willing to take on everyday work and also crisis.

Well, that's the truth as I see it.

I'll see you on the next "Unspun."

(upbeat music) - [Narrator] A production of PBS Charlotte.