>>> FEARS ARE MOUNTING AROUND ACCESS TO OUR MOST VITAL RESOURCES, FOOD AND WATER.

"THE GRAB" IS A DOCUMENTARY THAT CHRONICLES THE WAY SOME COUNTRIES ARE ATTEMPTING TO CONTROL THE RESOURCES.

HERE IS A CLIP.

>> FOOD IS BECOMING MORE POWERFUL THAN OIL.

>> HOW DO YOU THINK THAT'S GOING TO END?

>> IT'S NOT JUST CHINA, NOT JUST RUSSIA.

THIS IS WALL STREET, BIG MONEY, LEASING LAND TO FOREIGN COUNTRIES.

>> I THOUGHT THERE MIGHT BE MORE TO IT THAN THAT.

TURNS OUT, THERE WAS.

>> IT'S LIKE A WHO IS WHO.

THE MVPs OF THE MERCENARY WORLD.

>> WHAT IF THERE'S AN UPRISING?

>> THAT'S WHERE WE COME IN.

>> PRIVATE MILITARY CORPORATIONS.

>> ONE OF THE MOST NOTORIOUS MERCENARY.

>> NATE HALVERSON AND GABRIELA COWPERTHWAITE JOIN HARI TO DISCUSS WHETHER THE FIGHT OVER OUR MOST PRECIOUS COMMODITIES COULD LEAD TO THE NEXT MAJOR GEOPOLITICAL CONFLICT.

>> THANKS.

NATE, GABRIELA, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A NEW FILM OUT CALLED "THE GRAB."

IT'S ABOUT HOW FOOD AND WATER ARE GOING TO AFFECT THE GEOPOLITICS OF EVERYTHING GOING FORWARD.

BEFORE WE GET INTO OUR CONVERSATION, I WANT TO SET UP THIS CLIP HERE.

LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE TRAILER.

>> EVERY CENTURY IS CHARACTERIZED BY A KEY COMMODITY.

>> FOOD IS A VERY OBVIOUS AND CENTRAL WAY TO WIELD POWER.

>> I CAME ACROSS THIS CLASSIFIED CABLE TELLING COMPANIES TO GO OVERSEAS AND BUY UP FOOD AND WATER RESOURCES.

A LOT OF THIS IS HAPPENING IN THE SHADOWS, QUIETLY.

>> NATE, GIVE US THIS 30,000 FOOT VIEW, IF YOU CAN.

YOU HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING DIFFERENT -- PULLING AT DIFFERENT THREADS FOR A DECADE NOW.

HOW DID YOU PUT IT TOGETHER IN THIS LONGER ARC?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

WHEN I FIRST STARTED LOOKING AT THIS, I DIDN'T HAVE A STRONG UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WAS GOING ON, THAT WE MOVED INTO THIS NEW EPOCH.

IT'S A TOP LINE NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE.

THEY ELEVATED THESE ISSUES TO BEGIN TO WONDER, HOW ARE THEY GOING TO BE ABLE TO FOOD THEIR POPULATIONS GOING FORWARD?

HOW DOES FOOD AND WATER BECOME A GEOPOLITICAL TOOL AS THESE RESOURCES GROW INCREASINGLY SCARCE?

>> FROM THE OUTSIDE, IF SOMEBODY SAYS, THERE'S GOING TO BE A LARGE IMPACT, THE FILM REPORTING IS IMPORTANT.

>> LEARNING ABOUT NATE'S INITIAL REPORTING AND KIND OF -- HE STARTED REPORTING OUT A FEW OF THESE STORIES.

THE CHINA SMITHFIELD STORY, ARIZONA WATER STORY.

THOSE I SAW AS PORTALS OF ENTRY TO THIS BIGGER ISSUE WHICH WAS REALLY ESSENTIALLY THAT POWERFUL ENTITIES ARE GRABBING UP FINAL RESOURCES THAT ARE LEFT OUT FROM UNDERNEATH US AND LARGELY WITHOUT US KNOWING IT.

THAT FELT JAW-DROPPING TO ME WHEN REPORTED OUT ALL THE DIFFERENT ITERATIONS.

IT FELT KIND OF CONNECTED BUT VERY IMPORTANT.

>> FOR AN AUDIENCE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE REPORTS YOU DID ON SMITHFIELD FOODS AND HOW THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT WAS -- AND THE CHINESE NATIONAL BANK WAS BACKING A PURCHASE FOR SMITHFIELD, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ONE IN EVERY FOUR PIGS IN THE UNITED STATES, OR THE ARIZONA WATER STORY, WHAT DO THESE IDEAS HAVE IN COMMON?

>> THAT SMITHFIELD FOOD STORY WAS WHEN CHINA'S LARGEST MEAT COMPANY EFFECTIVELY PURCHASED ONE IN FOUR AMERICAN PIGS WITH THE FINANCIAL BACKING AND ALSO AT THE DIRECTING OF THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT.

IT WAS PART OF THE FIVE-YEAR PLAN TO GO OVERSEAS AND TO BUY UP FOOD AND WATER SUPPLIES.

CHINA NO LONGER HAS ENOUGH WATER TO GROW ENOUGH FOOD TO MEET THEIR GROWING DEMAND, WHICH IS REALLY A DEMAND DRIVEN BY THEIR GROWING MIDDLE CLASS.

PEOPLE BECOME WEALTHIER.

THEY WANT TO EAT MORE MEAT.

MEAT REQUIRES MORE WATER TO GROW MORE FOOD TO PRODUCE.

WE SAW THIS REACH BY CHINA ACROSS THE WORLD, INCLUDING INTO THE UNITED STATES.

AFTER I DID THAT STORY, I BEGAN WONDERING, IS THIS JUST A ONE OFF?

IS CHINA THE ONLY EXAMPLE OF THIS TREND?

IT TURNS OUT DEFINITELY NOT.

ONE OF THE OTHER STORIES THAT I FOUND WAS THAT THE LARGEST DAIRY COMPANY IN THE MIDDLE EAST HAD GONE INTO THE ARIZONA DESERT AND BOUGHT ESSENTIALLY 15 SQUARE MILES OF CACTUS-LIKE DESERT AND WAS PUMPING THE WATER UP TO GROW HAY TO FEED THE COWS THERE.

IF YOU BUY THE LAND, YOU EFFECTIVELY CAN PUMP UP AS MUCH OF THAT WATER AS YOU WANT.

THAT'S WHAT WE WERE SEEING WHERE PEOPLE IN ARIZONA IN THESE LOCAL COMMUNITIES DIDN'T REALIZE THERE WAS THIS GLOBAL GRAB FOR THEIR WATER.

WHAT THEY DID SEE WAS THAT THEIR DOMESTIC WELLS IN THEIR HOMES WERE GOING DRY.

THAT'S THE TREND WE'RE NOT JUST SEEING IN ARIZONA OR IN THE U.S.

BUT WE'RE BEGINNING TO SEE ALL AROUND THE WORLD.

>> NATE, WHY IS ZAMBIA AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT'S HAPPENING IN AFRICA?

WHY GO THERE?

WE HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS ABOUT LAND RIGHTS ON THIS PROGRAM.

WHAT'S HAPPENING THERE IS A MICROCOSM OF WHAT'S HAPPENING.

>> IT HAS WATER.

IT'S INEXPENSIVE.

IT'S A PRIME PLACE TO BE ABLE TO GO IN AND CREATE VALUE FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE INVESTING IN FARMLAND AND TO BE ABLE TO EXPORT CROPS TO OTHER WEALTHIER COUNTRIES.

IT'S NOT THAT ZAMBIA ISN'T A COUNTRY OF LAWS.

IT IS.

IT'S THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM IS HIGHLY REGARDED.

WHEN YOU LIVE IN A REMOTE AREA, YOU DON'T SPEAK THE PREDOMINANT GOVERNMENT LANGUAGE OF THE GOVERNMENT, YOU DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO JUSTICE.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE MONEY TO HIRE AN ATTORNEY, TO GET TO COURT, YOU EFFECTIVELY THEN HAVE NO JUSTICE.

THAT'S WHAT WE SAW WAS THAT FOLKS THAT -- THEY DIDN'T KNOW THEIR RIGHTS.

THEY DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO ACCESS THEIR RIGHTS.

THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE MONEY TO ACCESS THEIR RIGHTS.

IT BECOMES AN OPPORTUNITY FOR OTHERS.

>> THERE'S A SCENE WHEN YOU MENTIONED ZAMBIA, YOU ALL TRY TO GO THERE.

YOU ARE DETAINED AT THE AIRPORT.

I'M NOT GIVING TOO MUCH AWAY.

YOUR NAMES ARE ON A LIST.

YOU ARE NOT WELCOME.

>> RIGHT THERE, SMACK DAB ON IT WAS OUR NAMES AND PASSPORT NUMBERS.

THEY WERE DEFINITELY WAITING FOR US.

>> WHAT'S GOING ON NOW, NATE?

>> WE'RE GETTING KICKED OUT.

APPARENTLY, INTELLIGENCE SAYS OUR REPORTING IS A NATIONAL SECURITY THREAT.

THIS IS WHAT WE WERE TOLD.

>> I GUESS, WHAT HAPPENED TO HOW YOU WERE THINKING ABOUT THE REPORTING, NATE?

>> YEAH.

I THINK THE BIG TAKEAWAY IS WHEN YOU GO TO A COUNTRY AND YOU LAND THERE TO REPORT ON ESSENTIALLY FARMING, ON FOOD AND WATER, AND YOU ARE IMMEDIATELY DETAINED AND PUT INTO A DETENTION CELL AND YOU SEE YOUR NAMES AND PASSPORT NUMBERS UP ON THE POLICE BLOTTER, YOU REALIZE THAT FOOD AND WATER HAVE REALLY RISEN TO THAT LEVEL, THAT WHEN YOU SHOW UP TO REPORT ON THEM, YOU GET DETAINED.

I THINK THAT IS A KEY TAKEAWAY OF HOW WE ARE SHIFTING INTO THE 21st CENTURY WITH REGARD TO THE IMPORTANCE OF FOOD AND WATER.

>> NATE, WHEN YOU WERE LOOKING INTO HOW AFRICA IS THIS, WELL, FERTILE GROUND FOR FOOD AND WATER FOR THESE MULTINATIONAL CORPORATIONS AS WELL AS GROUPS THAT YOU DON'T EXPECT, AN INTERESTING NAME COMES UP.

THAT'S ERIK PRINCE.

MOST PEOPLE ARE FAMILIAR WITH ERIK PRINCE AS THE HEAD OF BLACKWATER SECURITIES.

DOING CONTRACTS FOR THE U.S. GOVERNMENT IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN.

WHAT'S THE ROLE THAT HE IS PLAYING IN THIS OR WAS PLAYING IN THIS?

>> YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.

IT KIND OF STARTED FOR ME PERSONALLY AS I WAS READING U.N. RECORDS AND WORLD BANK REPORTS.

THEY SAY 50% TO 60% OF THE LAND LEFT IN THE WORLD THAT COULD FEED THE GROWING GLOBAL POPULATION IS IN AFRICA.

I BEGAN THINKING, OKAY, I'M SEEING WHAT'S HAPPENING IN ARIZONA IN THE U.S. AND ELSEWHERE.

WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE IN AFRICA?

WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE?

I HAD SEEN HIM SAY THAT HE HAD STARTED A PRIVATE EQUITY COMPANY THAT WAS GOING TO BE INVESTING IN LAND IN AFRICA FOR FARMLAND.

WE GOT A LOT OF INFORMATION ON WHAT ERIK PRINCE WAS DOING THERE AND WHO HE WAS FINANCIALLY SUPPORTING, BUT GOVERNMENT AND POWERFUL ENTITIES WERE BACKING HIM TO GO INTO AFRICA TO BUY UP LAND TO BE ABLE TO EXPORT FOOD TO WEALTHIER COUNTRIES.

>> DID YOU TRY TO REACH OUT TO HIM?

WHAT DID HE HAVE TO SAY?

>> I DID.

I TRIED TO REACH OUT MULTIPLE TIMES.

IT WAS ALWAYS, NO COMMENT.

I WENT TO THEIR OFFICES.

ONE OF HIS OFFICES IN HONG KONG, EMAILS SPOKESPEOPLE.

ALWAYS, NO COMMENT.

>> THERE'S A SECTION IN THE FILM WHERE YOU START TALKING ABOUT REALLY HOW CLIMATE CHANGE IS GOING TO AFFECT THE PLANET AND WHAT ARE SOME OF THE UNINTENDED OPPORTUNITIES, I GUESS, THAT CLIMATE CHANGE PRESENTS.

YOU HAVE THIS MAP OF BASICALLY SECTIONS OF GLACIERS THAWING IN RUSSIA AND HOW IT COULD BECOME A NEW IOWA.

IT WAS A VERY INTERESTING SCENE WHERE I HAD NO IDEA THAT RUSSIA WAS IMPORTING AMERICAN COWBOYS.

>> MY WIFE SEEN AN AD ON THE INTERNET.

AS A JOKE, SHE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE FUNNY.

SHE PUT MY RESUME IN.

I WAS GETTING READY TO WATCH SUNDAY FOOTBALL IN NEBRASKA.

THIS SKYPE THING COME OVER THE COMPUTER.

I HOLLERED AT HER.

SHE GOT PANICKY AND SAID, YOU NEED TO TALK TO HIM.

IT'S ABOUT A JOB.

I ANSWERED IT.

30 MINUTES LATER, I WAS HIRED.

PRETTY MUCH MY WIFE DIDN'T THINK THAT WAS FUNNY AFTER ALL THAT.

NOW WE ARE PACKING UP AND GOING TO RUSSIA.

HERE WE GO.

YOU BETTER GIVE 'EM SOME AIR.

HE IS TAPPED OUT.

>> WHY WERE THEY DOING THAT?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

I THINK HERE IN THE U.S., THE IDEA OF CLIMATE CHANGE CAN BE CONTENTIOUS.

SOME PEOPLE ARE SKEPTIC.

WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT PRESIDENT PUTIN ISN'T.

HE IS BASICALLY SAYING THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS HAPPENING AND IT MEANS THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BUY LESS FUR AND ARE ABLE TO GROW MORE FOOD.

THE REASON IT HAPPENS IS AS GROWING SEASON DAYS, WHICH JUST MEANS THAT THEY CAN GROW MORE CROPS, MORE VARIETY, FARTHER UP NORTH, MORE LAND.

THEY HAVE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF WATER.

PUTIN HAS SAID HE SEES THAT AS A GEOPOLITICAL ASSET, THAT BASICALLY THEY ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO FEED THE WORLD.

BY FEEDING THE WORLD, THEY WILL BE ABLE TO USE THAT AS A TOOL TO HAVE OTHER COUNTRIES SEE THINGS THE WAY THEY SEE THEM.

ONE WAY TO DO THAT WAS TO IMPORT AMERICAN COWBOYS TO BEGIN HELPING RUSSIA TO BUILD UP THE WORLD'S LARGEST CATTLE HERD, TO BE ABLE TO FEED BEEF TO OTHER COUNTRIES.

WE FOUND THESE SPUR-WEARING LEATHER-CHAP WEARING COWBOYS FROM NEBRASKA, MONTANA, IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE RUSSIA, TRAINING UP RUSSIANS TO BECOME COWBOYS.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS INTERESTING WATCHING THE FILM IS, WE ARE ALL NOW VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE INVASION OF UKRAINE BY RUSSIA.

IN SOME OF THE FOOTAGE THAT YOU HAD FOUND, THERE WAS ESSENTIALLY A CANAL IN CRIMEA THAT I BET THE BULK OF THE PEOPLE WATCHING THIS DOCUMENTARY HAD NEVER HEARD ABOUT MUCH LESS THOUGHT ABOUT.

THE FOOTAGE OF DRONE STRIKES OR MISSILE STRIKES ON GRAIN SILOS IN UKRAINE, HOW ESSENTIALLY FOOD IS ONE OF THE TARGETS OF THE WAR AND COULD BE ONE OF THE BIG REASONS WHY THIS INVASION EVEN HAPPENED.

>> YEAH.

THEY DO SAY THE WORLD HAS DEEMED UKRAINE AS ONE OF THE FINAL BREAD BASKETS, A COUNTRY THAT'S GOING TO BE FEEDING THE WORLD AND FEEDING A LOT OF POVERTY-STRICKEN NATIONS AS WELL.

REALLY BEING ABLE TO RELY ON THAT COUNTRY AS A PLANET IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE ALL KIND OF ASSUMED WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT -- THIS PLACE IS GOING TO BE INTACT.

NO ONE WILL TOUCH THAT.

THE IDEA THAT THIS -- THIS STEMS DIRECTLY FROM THE RUSSIAN COWBOYS AND THE BEEF, BUT IF RUSSIA IS ABLE TO CONTROL BEEF AND CAN ALSO CONTROL GRAIN, YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE'S NO BETTER EXAMPLE OF A GRAB, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT THAT WAY.

EVERYTHING THAT NATE IS SAYING ABOUT THE GEOPOLITICS OF WHAT RUSSIA IS DOING BORE OUT IN THIS ONE STORY.

>> IT'S NOT JUST FOREIGN COUNTRIES OR COMPANIES COMING IN AND BUYING PROPERTY AND FARMLAND IN THE U.S.

THERE ARE U.S. COMPANIES OR ONES BASED IN THE U.S. THAT ARE USING THIS LAND OR LEASING IT OUT TO OTHER COUNTRIES OR COMPANIES.

>> CHINA DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH WATER TO FEED ITS POPULATION.

THE REASON THAT THEY ARE SUCH LARGE FOOD IMPORTERS IS THAT THEY ARE IMPORTING FOOD AS A PROXY FOR WATER.

SO OUR WAY IS BASICALLY BUYING FARMLAND.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE ARE FOCUSING ON AREAS THAT ARE WATER RICH AND THAT CAN AREAS THAT ARE WATER POOR.

WE PURCHASED A FARM IN SOUTHWEST ARKANSAS THAT'S 25,000 ACRES IN SIZE.

TO PUT THAT IN PERSPECTIVE, THAT'S CLOSE TO TWO TIMES THE SIZE OF MANHATTAN.

>> WHAT'S THE STATE OF PLAY OR THE LANDSCAPE, IF YOU WILL, ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND HOW THIS OWNERSHIP WORKS AND WHETHER THESE RESOURCES OF WATER OR FOOD CAN BE EXPORTED?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

THERE IS A FEDERAL LAW THAT REQUIRES FOREIGN OWNERSHIPS TO REGISTER WHEN PURCHASING FARMLAND.

MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE COMPLIANCE ISN'T THAT GREAT.

THERE ARE STATES THAT HAVE SOME RESTRICTIONS ON HOW FOREIGN OWNERSHIP CAN OWN LAND.

FOR INSTANCE, IOWA HAS SOME RESTRICTIONS ON IT.

BUT ALSO, THERE'S JUST -- THERE'S A LOT OF QUESTIONS AROUND WHO ULTIMATELY OWNS A COMPANY THAT CAN MAKE IT VERY DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND AT THE END OF THE DAY WHOSE MONEY IS IT THAT'S BUYING THAT FARMLAND.

I THINK THERE'S AN INCREASING INTEREST ON THE NATIONAL LEVEL, STATE LEVELS, TO UNDERSTAND WHO IS PURCHASING THE LAND.

WE ARE SEEING SOME PUSH FROM LAWMAKERS IN THAT REGARD.

>> GABRIELA, WHAT SURPRISED YOU WHEN YOU MADE THIS FILM?

>> I WAS BLOWN AWAY THAT THERE'S NO NATIONAL WATER POLICY.

NATE REPORTED THIS OUT THAT THERE'S NOT ONLY NOT A NATIONAL WATER POLICY, THERE'S NO NATIONAL WATER STRATEGY.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO PROTECT US AND THINK ABOUT WATER IN MUCH MORE OF A SIMILAR WAY THAT CHINA AND RUSSIA DO?

WHICH IS, YOU ARE PLAYING A LONG GAME.

THEY ARE IN THE 21st CENTURY THINKING ABOUT BURGEONING POPULATIONS AND WHAT TO DO TO FEED THEM.

WE AND OUR WATER LAWS ARE 19th CENTURY.

SOME ARE LITERALLY FROM THE 19th CENTURY.

TRYING TO BUILD CONSENSUS OVER WHAT WE DO WITH WHAT WE HAVE LEFT SEEMS A NO BRAINER.

BUT WE ARE NOT THERE YET.

>> NATE AND GABRIELA, THE FILM IS "THE GRAB."

YOU CAN FIND IT ON MOST ONLINE STREAMING PLATFORMS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> THANKS SO MUCH.