Oh.

So how are you all doing?

Good.

Good.

Today we have Doctor Nino.

Officially the head of research from Swiss Center for Design and Health, joining us from Switzerland.

Doctor Sally has previously served as a deputy head of Institute of Design Research, where she coordinated interdisciplinary research group health care communication design agency CD and to bring university.

Her research mainly focuses on healthcare design and social design.

So please help me welcome doctor.

Sally.

Thank you so much, Doctor Jafari, for this introduction.

First of all, warm welcome to all the students and colleagues from Switzerland.

I'm very sorry that I'm not able to be, onsite.

I would love to be in Texas at your university, but, Yeah, unfortunately, I'm here in Switzerland with bad weather.

The time now here is 7:40 p.m., so it's quite getting dark outside.

Is is the reason why I have a blue sky.

So at least you see a little bit of myself.

I will now share my slides and please let me know if you see them in a proper manner.

Is it fine?

Yes.

Perfect.

So, s Doctor Jafari, introduced myself.

I'm head of research at the Swiss Center for Design and Health, and my talk today is about human centered healthcare design and how we in the Swiss center, we try to involve user through prototyping and testing.

First of all, Doctor Jaffer, you said the most important stuff about myself.

Maybe for you, it's important to know I'm not an architect.

I'm originally professionally.

I'm a product designer.

I studied in Germany.

Product design and worked in practice.

And, I have several years after that.

I, went into academia at the Berne Academy of the Arts and, was doing research at the intersection between design and health and mainly focusing on the physical environment, on spaces and their impact on specific patient groups.

Especially my focus was on the elderly, population, patients suffering from dementia and how the physical environment can contribute to their health.

Late in life, I decided to run for a PhD, which is not very common in Switzerland for designers.

I know that in the United States and other where in in in the world it's much more common to do a PhD.

But in Switzerland we have a different educational system.

So, this is why most designers, they come from practice, they work in practice.

And at some point in life they decide maybe to go into academia and to follow a PhD.

And this is what I did.

And I didn't do a PhD in design because this is not possible in Switzerland.

I had to do it in, yeah.

At the University of Bern in the subject that was related to my topic, and I chose social anthropology because my PhD, the topic was about, design in culture, sensitive nursing homes and how design is construct.

Is leading to construct culture and how physical spaces in culture specific nursing homes are designed in Switzerland.

And if there is any difference to regular wards in nursing homes in Switzerland.

As Doctor Jeffery said, I was at the Berlin Academy of the Arts.

I was a professor for social design, till two years ago and for the last 15 years I was coordinator of the interdisciplinary, research group Health Care Communication Design at Brown University of Applied Sciences.

And I think it's important to know that because the Bern Academy of the Arts is one department of the Bern University of Applied Sciences, and there are other departments such as the School of Nursing, School of Architecture, School of Economy, School of Informatics.

And we started collaborating 15 years ago with these disciplines at the intersection between and design and health.

So I was mainly working with nursing scientists, with architects, with medical informatics, with people from economy, looking and doing research at questions related to physical space and design in healthcare institutions.

So we collaborated with hospitals, with nursing homes and other health care institutions and it's important to know that this research group, which exists for 15 years, that was the starting point for an idea for a Swiss national Competence center for design and health.

So this was like the basic work, but basic research, which had been done by this research group, which led to the Swiss Center for Design and Health, where I'm now today as head of research.

And maybe it is also relevant to say that the Swiss Center for Design and Health is a very young institution.

We ran, we started operating in 2022.

So we are very young.

We are still in the building phase.

And I often say we are a little bit like a startup because we are a public private partnership, but we have the privilege to be funded by the federal government and by the Canton of Bern.

As you might be familiar with Switzerland, as you in the United States, you have different states.

In Switzerland, it's called the canton.

And the Swiss Center for Design and Health is, located in the canton of Bern, where I'm right now.

So, as I mentioned, the Swiss Center for Design and Health is a national technology competence center.

This name is given by the federal government of Switzerland.

And, this is like a format where different competence centers in Switzerland are funded by the federal government.

And, we are one of them.

We are the only one which, focuses on design.

And as I mentioned, we are a public private partnership, which means we are funded by the federal government and the canton of Bern.

But we also have shareholders such as the Bern University of Applied Sciences, the University of Bern, and the University Hospital of Bern.

There's also an insurance that is part of the shareholders.

There is a furniture company, a communication company.

So there are, several shareholders who also contribute to the Swiss Center for Design and Health, the main focus of our institution.

Since we are not a university like you, are we?

Our main focus is not necessarily on basic research, but more on the knowledge and technology transfer.

So this is quite special because we collaborate with, with universities, with universities of applied sciences, but we also collaborate with industry partners and with hospitals, with public organizations, with NGOs.

And our aim is to make sure that the knowledge which is, developed at the universities, at the universities of applied Sciences, is transferred into applied projects, into building projects, into the developer, development of new products.

And so we have research team in-house.

So we have an expertise in-house.

We are very interdisciplinary team.

We started in 2022 with three people, and now we are 30.

And our team is, consists me, myself, a product designer.

We have three other product designers.

We have a service designer.

We have an architect.

We have a data scientist, we have a neuroscientists, we have an user interaction designer.

We have people from communication from HR.

And so on.

And we also I think that's quite special.

We also have, for instance, carpenters.

We have people who work with their hand and we work together eye to eye because we are all, part of the team.

And we collaborate in our team, in our projects.

What you can see right now is like, illustration of our organization.

For you, maybe the most interesting part is the lower part.

We do have boards.

We have a international advisory board, which consists of professors from all over the world.

And we also said we we need to make sure that the things that we do here in small Switzerland need to be, we have to reflect our own work, and therefore we need experts who guide us, who consult us on which kind of research has been done internationally.

And, that the things that we do here is also makes sense in an international context that it's, up to date.

It's that it's best practice, state of the art, that we can always, rely on this framework.

And I just told doctor, just how do you, for instance, departure departed from Texas Tech as part of our international advisory board.

Also, Angela Joseph, from Clemson University.

Your I guess you're familiar with her, but we also have people from public health, from nursing sciences, from social anthropology, from design and architecture.

So it's again, it's a very diverse, group of people.

We also have guest professors.

So I know that next week you will have Nora Coleman presenting.

And Nora, was our first guest professor at the Swiss Center for Design and Health, and she was here and I think two years ago, for three weeks, she visited, Nidal, where we are located in, in the canton of Bern.

And she trained us in the simulation method that I'm sure that she will also tell you a little bit about it.

And, you will also hear a little bit how we use the method of simulation in my talk.

So our main focus is on the interaction between humans and their environment.

And as I mentioned, we are an interdisciplinary team.

Our name is Swiss Center for Design and Health and the the term of design.

We use it very broadly, which is and also again in Switzerland.

And then the German speaking parts of Europe is not very common.

So usually people in in this area still think that design is is a discipline to make things nicer, a very superficial way to make, products more expensive.

And it's always, a challenge to explain what we mean by design.

So we also include architecture when we talk about design, but we also include services.

So it can be the digital environment can be the built environment.

It can be physical products.

When we talk about the interrelationship between humans and there environment, what is quite important, although our name is called National Technology Competence Center, as mentioned, we didn't give this name ourselves.

We want to emphasize that our focus is not on technology.

We use a lot of technology, but our very focus is on humans.

So our approach is very, very much human centered.

So we really try to include users at the very early stage of the design process.

We work evidence based.

This is something that you all know.

So we, we are not, arguing it due to esthetic reasons, but we really look out in our projects.

What is the state of research?

Is there any, are there are studies which, tell you about the impact of, for instance, the built environment on people suffering from dementia.

And when there are fields where there is no evidence yet, we try to, come up with our own studies and, and, run studies by ourself and with our partners.

We work in a very participatory manner and in an iterative way.

So it's like prototyping, testing.

And, I guess you are familiar with this, process, our areas of expertise, as I mentioned, when I talk about design.

So you as architects, you are mainly focusing on the middle graphic, which is the environment, the built environment.

But when we talk about a design, we talk about, for instance, the built environment, but also objects or product design.

We also talk about visual communication.

So you know that, for instance, signage and wayfinding is a huge topic in the built environment.

So how can you make sure if, for instance, people with visual impairment that they can recognize signage, that they can find their way through a building, but it can also be the design of a user interface of a product.

For instance, how can the digital interface of machine be accessible to the user?

And the last area I mentioned before, a service design, this is the area where we, cope with systems and processes.

So how can we design systems or processes to make them more, human centered, to make them more efficient and, to include different stakeholders depending on which project we work.

And I'm very sorry that you cannot be here in Switzerland, because then you could see our facility and this I, what you can see here is basically the core of the Swiss Center for Design and Health.

It's our living lab and our living lab.

This is an old picture.

It changes all the time.

But what you can see here is like a huge space.

It's 2500m².

So you have to, calculate that and feet.

I'm sorry I didn't prepare that, but it's a huge space.

It's 12m high.

And we use this space for prototyping and testing in 1 to 1.

And this is quite unique in Switzerland because you don't have it.

I know that Nora and and other, researchers and planners are already using 1 to 1 prototypes, and I heard from Doctor Jafari that you will do it also.

And you also do it already.

So you're quite familiar with the topic.

But for Switzerland, and I would say also the German speaking part in in Europe, this is quite unique.

What do we do?

On the right hand side you can see a projection space which is 600m².

So we have 12 beams where we can project floor plans in 1 to 1 scale.

So we don't need to come up with tape like Nora.

She told us when she did their prototypes of Atlanta Children's Hospital, they needed to rent, a space.

They needed to, you know, first you have to maybe to print the floor plan on the floor, or you have to use tape.

We don't use that.

We don't need that because we have the beams.

So we can basically we can plug in, a laptop or tablet and then we just project anything.

We could also project a film, which is quite fun, but we use this for, projecting floor plans in a scale for 1 to 1.

And then what you can also see is the cardboard walls.

To go into the third dimension.

We also have workshops right next to the living lab.

It's approximately 1000m².

So we have a wood workshop, a metal workshop, a textile workshop.

We have 3D printing.

We also, have like an open space for designers and architects who want to work with us to use these spaces for prototyping and testing.

There are areas which they cannot, enter by themselves because they might cut off their hands, or so, they are open spaces they can use and and easy machinery.

But, the heavy work is accompanied by our staff.

Again, what you can see here is the living lab.

You can see here now the projection space in, the background, I think you can see it is a little space.

And I will tell you a little bit more about it, where you can see it.

It's a patient room.

So what we also have is, like, not only the projection space, but really mock up spaces of patient rooms and so on.

What you can see here, we are not only trying to use the analog space, but we are now more and more experimenting also with VR simulation in VR, in augmented reality, using, a motion capture system to track users and their, and their for instance, work processes and, to use this space to also find out, for instance, how people navigate through buildings and how to improve the built environment in order to support these processes of care.

For instance.

As I mentioned, we have 1 to 1 test settings.

Also we have like physical mock ups.

And here on the left hand side you can see, an image of it of patients rooms.

We have a long term care room.

We have a care at home setting.

I will tell you a little bit more about it.

And these spaces are basically test settings.

For instance, to test, materials.

So to see how, curtain in a specific color in a specific translucency interacts with the flooring or the wall, how the lighting is in, in, in this space.

And to also test, for instance, new products which have been developed with users, in a 1 to 1 scale, not in the hospital itself, but still in a experimental setting which is changeable.

These test settings are were also built by our workshop team.

They are modular.

So we can change the colors, we can change the walls, we can change the curtains depending.

For instance, if the an architect comes or a hospital and they're in the building and design phase and they want to test, for instance, how the future patient rooms look like this is possible here, to test them before the physical, before the building is actually built.

What we are also planning is to build a 1 to 1 operating theater.

And we hope that we will do that by the beginning of next year.

As I mentioned before, we also we not only test the physical space, but we also, test the usability of, for instance, digital technologies with users.

For instance, how is digital platform designed, which aim which oncology nurses use in terms of preparation of medication.

Do they following the information the necessary information.

How is the type how is the font size?

Is it is the most relevant information accessible?

Very easy.

How do we have to improve, the design of the layout and so on.

And this is why we also have interaction designers and user interface designers to collaborate with, visual communication designers in order to be able to, to work on projects like that.

And now we come to the simulation, which you are quite familiar.

So what you can see here is this production area that I talked before.

What you can see, right, quite nicely on the floor.

Now, this is the projection on the floor.

And what we do, we build like the physical mock ups in our workshops.

Either they are there in cardboard so we build them or they are, real furniture, such as what you have here is like, an operating theater of a hospital that, is newly built.

And so we include the users, the doctors, the nurses, the architects also also participating in the simulations.

And we simulate daily processes of care or, daily processes, which happen in the hospital.

In this case, it was, for instance, a shoulder operation.

So we decide with the hospitals that approach to us that are in a building process and ask us for advice.

We define with them which kind of space should be simulated, which should be built and 1 to 1, which kind of scenario do we play?

And I think Nora will tell you next week much more about the methodology.

So we really relate very much on the methodology which was developed by Nora and our team.

So she will tell you a little bit more about it.

And I don't go into depth, but what is important is that we run the simulations, for instance, a shoulder operation.

And we observe, the teams, we, we have the debriefing afterwards.

And so to find out how the plans of the architects might be improved to, in order to support these care and work processes of the medical and nursing staff.

This is a slide which you might also be familiar, and I'm sure that Nora will also show it.

But again, I think it's important why we use simulations.

As architects and designers and very often designers still tend to work at the screen.

And just imagine how a work process might be.

And I'm a designer, or you are an architect, but you're not a nurse.

So you imagine a work process to be in a specific way, maybe in a very structured way, but the reality looks quite more messy.

So the simulation is a way to find out this messiness, how, how really work is done on site.

And therefore we need, like the nurses who actually work in these spaces.

We need the doctors, we need the, the, the surgeons.

So they all come to our facility and, work with us during these simulations.

We, think that it's a huge advantage to integrate stakeholders early into the planning process.

Because I made, the experience in my former position when I was part of this research group that I mentioned before at the Bern University of Applied Sciences, we were approached by the hospitals much too late.

The mock up spaces were already done.

Then it was already decided by the architect which colors, which furniture, which wall color, which flooring.

And the only thing that we could say was saying, oh, listen, the flooring for a is a person who suffers from dementia might not be the right one, but we couldn't, have an impact on the floor plan on the distance of spaces, on the sizes of spaces.

So we said if we want to have such a competence center like the Space Center for Design and Health, we need to make sure that we get into the planning process at a very, very early stage.

And this again, is not very common here in Europe in and and it makes it possible to, to identify planning errors at a very, very stage.

And optimize spaces together with the users.

And finally, to save costs.

And Nora will also tell you a lot about it.

And I'm sure that also you use these evidence based design principles in your own work.

And I don't go much more into depth, but it's important to know that we not only run the simulations, but that it's a very structured way to do these simulations and to decide in advance with the teams, like what are the design principles that we focus on, because, for instance, a geriatric hospital has other aspects that you have to look at, in comparison to the pediatric ward.

So in an operating theater, there is for instance, the to reduce infection, the risk of infection is very, very important.

So it might be in a, in a nursing home, there might be other, aspects that which are relevant.

So it's important to decide in advance what are the design principles that we want to focus on.

And these design principles also lead our simulations and our observations.

After the simulations we do the debriefings here.

You can see it.

We did discuss with the users.

Why did they, run the simulations like they did how where the processes, how did the built environment impact their work processes, and how could it be improved?

And I think what we experienced is, for me, the mockups and the prototype, the 1 to 1 space.

For me, it's like a conversation piece because it enables people to start talking about design and architecture.

And these are people who are much more are not familiar to read a floor plan and so the and also acting like it's a kind of role play, what they do and it's a safe space.

So also hierarchies between doctors and nurses, they break up a little bit because they are at our facility.

They're not in the hospital itself.

And then they start talking about it.

It's a very playful manner, but I think, as I mentioned, as a conversation piece, to think about this model or this mock up as a conversation piece, I really like this idea because it enables the the dialog about design and architect architecture in a very playful manner, and it also includes the different stakeholders in the planning process and gives them also, responsibility and recognition in the building process.

And I experience it that they really value this experience.

So again here you can see a patient room where we use, for instance, different curtains to see what colors, have an effect in comparison to a totally white room.

So it helps architects and designers to choose on different materials.

This is a very provocative, statement, but I like it by Doctor Bruce, left, who says from done hospitals, University.

One day hospitals will just be e.r.s intensive care units and operating rooms.

Everyone else will be treated at home.

I you can put a question mark at that.

I'm not sure if it will lead into this direction, but what we can observe on an international level and also in Switzerland, is that the topic of care at home or hospital, at home or patient at home is gaining more and more recognition.

And we have several initiatives in Switzerland and of course, in the United States also, which treat try to keep the patient as long as possible at home.

And this is the reason why we decided, in this summer, we had our second guest, professor.

We invited the professor from Israel.

I will tell you a little bit more about her, and we focus on the topic of care at home and remote care.

And what you can see here is a 1 to 1 test setting of a home environment.

I always say it looks a little bit like Ikea.

But what you can see here is like the living room of an elderly person and the bedroom on the left hand side.

And we used this mock up for our symposium, which was called Building Trust Designing for Remote Care.

We invited doctor pillows over from the school, Karla School of Management from Tel Aviv University, and nearly.

She's an architect, but it is also working at the biggest hospital in Israel at Sheba medical, hospital.

And she's very responsible head of, research and innovation.

And they and the her main focus is also on new technologies.

How are they integrated in, in the hospital.

And we said that together with Ingrid and a professor, Dean Hodder from the Bern University of Applied Sciences, we organize this symposium.

And it was three days and we focused on the topic of remote care.

We use our facility, and I think now we take the simulation a step further or a little bit, a far from what Nora is doing.

And we said we want to take the role play the simulation of daily work and care processes, to find out how you can build trust.

But in the technology, in the digital tools, in in the new way, how doctors, nurses and patients interact when digital technologies are involved.

So we run simulations with actors, with nurses, with doctors in our facility.

What you can see here now is the home environment.

You can see the elderly patient in his bed, the nurse beside him and the audience are the observers.

On the left hand side.

You can see the projection space.

And there, was I can go back was a hospital built?

So this was the site where the doctor was placed.

And at home there was the nurse.

We were looking at the intersection of humans, space and technology.

So because and this was very much led by Nurit and her research, she did a lot of, research in that field already that digital technologies, they the topic of remote care not only influences the interaction between humans, but also the physical space.

The built environment has an impact on this new way of treating patients.

So, for instance, how does the camera have to be located in order to make sure that the doctor has a good image of the patient?

How's the lighting situation in the room that you can see the patient properly?

And, what about data security?

Do I have trust when there is a camera in the patient room?

Or maybe even a patient is lying next to me?

Because we in Switzerland, we still have, for instance, double bed room, patient rooms in, in hospitals.

And this is like, the setup that you had on the left hand side, that was the projected area of a nurse station of the doctor's office on the right hand side, you could see the mock up spaces, the physical mock up spaces of the home environment.

And for instance, one scenario was the home management of a heart disease.

So the nurse would come, the patient, we would feel we have a very established system of mobile nurses in Switzerland.

So they come at patients home, they treat them, but in this scenario, the patient didn't feel very well.

The heart rate was going up.

So the nurse set up a call with a doctor who's in the hospital and started the treatment, using this telemedicine suitcase.

So what you can see here, you see the image of the doctor, you can see.

So I'll also there how do you see the doctor.

What?

How you can see it from below, which is not very, nice, but also, what role does the, nurse get when she's more like a mediator between the doctor who was not on site and the patient, and what we could see from our first observations that the role of the nurse gets more and more important because the physical contact and the 1 to 1 contact gets is still very important, as it is very necessary also in remote care processes.

And the observers who were participating in this symposium was asked to fill out observation forms to, give their feedback on the intersection of the human, the built environment and the technology to find out is this situation building trust in between humans and technology or what could we improve?

And this was more or less we used the simulations at a starting point for our discussion to come up with ideas.

How do we want, remote care to take place in the future to make sure that people have trust in the technology, in the doctor, in the people, and in the care processes?

We not only focused on the home environment, we also focused on remote care at the hospital.

And this again is the projection area, which was like the doctor's office.

The simulation here was a post-operative discharge in a patient room.

So a patient was being discharged after an operation.

The doctor was in its office together with interns.

And, so this, for instance, was the image that the doctor had.

So what kind of image does the doctor have from the patient and the nurse?

How's the lighting situation in the space?

How?

Yeah.

What what does the doctor see?

And and how is also the physical setup of this control center that, that that, doctor is located.

These are all design questions.

So although we use digital technologies, although it's remote care, the design aspects and the built environment play a huge role in terms of the care processes of the working situations of the doctor, the nurses, the patient.

And this is, I think, something that all of you and us need to consider in future planning of hospitals because it's it's, leading into this direction that there are more and more control centers also in hospitals here.

You can see again, the nurse in the patient rooms observing a wound.

And the doctor, we had these mobile robots, that the doctor was on the screen of this mobile robot, which was quite an awkward situation because this robot would drive into the patient room and it's a little bit strange, to be treated by a doctor in this way.

So also there, it was quite nice to use simulation to, sketch a future scenario, envision a future scenario, and use it as a starting point to start the discussion about how we want, as designers contribute to, to remote care in the future.

And now, I'm asking Doctor Jafari as a final.

Yeah.

I have to stop.

you.

All right.

Do you have any questions?

Doctor Kirk Hamilton.

Thank you for a terrific lecture.

You mentioned, collaboration with Clemson and, and others.

Is there a way that Texas A&M can collaborate with your remarkable center?

Definitely.

As a national technology competence center, we are obliged to work with any university or university of applied sciences in Switzerland, but also on an international level.

So the reason why we contacted Angela Joseph, Patty and, all this incredible experts from health related fields was that at the beginning, even before that is at the Swiss Center for Design Existence.

From the very initial idea, we said we need to find experts all over the world that, help us in building this idea.

And we asked in our network, we also have a scientific board, which is, consisting of professors from the Bern University of Applied Sciences and the University of Bern and all of them, they suggested somebody who they know.

So it was nursing scientists, public health specialists, architects, designers and so on.

And this is how we approached, the American colleagues.

But now that we exist a couple of years, like 2 or 3 years, we are now also collaborating and on an international level, for instance, with Nora Coleman, we invited her also this summer, she gave a public workshop for practitioners.

So she used she taught our simulation can be used in, in the planning process.

So there were people from hospital as they, who are in the building, planning phase of a new hospital.

They were architects.

We invited nearly to we collaborate now with, Parsons School, in, in New York and with the Healthy Material Lab because what I didn't mentioned, we also are planning to build, material collection for with healthy materials, which are evidence based materials which can be used in, in healthcare contexts, which will be a physical library and also a digital one.

So we are very much interested in collaboration, be it research, be teaching, be it events or conferences.

So I this is like a huge shout out and, invitation to all of you whenever you are in Switzerland and, I know it's far away, but, if you might be in the area in Switzerland, it's quite small from.

So from Zurich to our facility, it's only one hour from Basel, it's one hour.

So whenever you're by, just give us a call, write me an email.

We are there, and, we can make it happen that we.

You just go inside.

Because I think it's really nice to see this space to be inside of it.

And, Yeah.

And if you are interested, just let us know to collaborate.

We are very much interested.

Thank you so much, doctor Sally questions Amira or.

Okay.

Thank you for the presentation.

Again.

My question was in regards to the digital technology that you kind of discussed, going into the behavioral health aspect, what different technologies were you guys able to discover that would be useful in terms of that remote care model that you were going through?

What?

Thank you for that question.

So I have to admit, what we did there at the symposium was a very experimental setting.

I was sweating blood, too before that because it was nearly too challenged, as she said, oh, you have such a great playground here.

And we have to use simulation and the mock ups to try this.

We never did it that way.

You know, like you bringing in actors, bringing a public.

We didn't even have a public support even before.

So it was very experimental.

And also the digital, suitcase that you saw, it's quite old fashioned.

It always said, oh, guys, in Israel we have so advanced technologies.

Why do we use this one?

But it was the only one that we could find.

It was like lended by the Bern University of Applied Sciences.

So we didn't really I mean, we checked what could be possible.

We also reached out to digital companies, medtech companies, if they would be interested to, to lend some of the products to us.

But in terms of timing and also money wise, we were a little bit restricted and we tried out, so we didn't try out different technologies.

But I think this is something that, really we need to look at, for instance, what we now see that, for instance, in Switzerland, there is also an interest in prisons, doing remote care for that, prisoners, because in Switzerland, you know, there might be also doctors, or less and less doctors.

It's hard to find doctors and, and and how can we make sure to provide the care that you need, for instance, in prisons or remote technologies?

Also there are tested and, but I'm sorry, I cannot give you a proper answer.

We didn't really need to do a proper research about what is the state of the art and digital technologies, but I'm sure that if you are interested, for instance, Sheba medical Hospital and Nereid, what they do is incredible.

They used during Covid, they started using remote, technologies and they kept doing it.

And Sheba medical hospital, they now have Sheba beyond, which is the first virtual hospital.

So the doctors at Sheba, they not only treat the patients in the hospital, but also, the, the which are remote and, and I think that's quite, interesting what they do.

Thank you so much.

That was very welcome.

Thank you so much for this, really fantastic, presentation.

And, I'm just amazed by what you have done, you know, we are very jealous about the facility.

You have.

And also you have the, you know, ability to bring in, caregivers and, physicians and nurses.

That's the incredible work.

And we're in a rural town, right.

Bring in people from, you know, big city, which is that two hour away or three hour away.

That's that's maybe impossible.

And, so when I, you know, watching this presentation and also compare the center for healthy Sy, you are the two centers are really similar.

But, you know, it's really different in, in, in, in your own way because you, you are testing as well, just like you are doing multitasking.

For, for the center and, also myself really interested in, design for dementia, for people with dementia.

So I'm hoping, you know, we collaborate in the future, in the future.

So, for this project, a lot of project, you know, for simulation project and some some project is really, big, some projects that small, how they handle, you know, towards the general period, you know, of the project you have especially those the elderly, having high, fatality, mock up, you build it and then you demolish it, or you just, leave that for demonstration.

And that's my first question.

The second question is that, you know, when you collaborating with the industrial partners and then, so how do you share the cost?

Right.

So, so I, I think that, you know, running a center is not easy.

You are running a center, maybe at a at a higher level of budget than we have right now.

So, yeah, I'm very interested in these two questions.

Thank you very much for these questions.

Very, they are you're putting your finger into the wound.

I have to say.

So the first question, like the length of the project, as I mentioned, we are a young institution, so we are still in figuring it out.

Also in like experimenting.

How can we use, for instance, the method of simulation?

How can we further develop it with the symposium?

Right now, for instance, the simulations that we ran with hospitals that approached us, it was, like people coming, we discuss with them, we do the setup, we do the simulations, and they go again.

I know from Nora that they tested two years, Atlanta Children's Hospital, so that that was a huge amount of time.

It's huge amount of, people working there.

We are not there yet.

We use simulation quite punctually.

So hospitals approach us because they have to pay for it.

So and that we write an offer in this case.

And then, they come with their teams, we prepare everything, and then they are there for one day for two days.

And then we write the reports from the debriefing and hand it over.

The aim would be that we can do it iteratively.

You know, that we really guide the building process and that we accompany the architects and hospital planners, with our expertise.

But this is something which, we weren't able to do yet.

So it was more that we were approached punctually.

So hospitals, for instance, ambulatory, hospitals approached us and they we had the plans from the architects.

We tested them two days with nurses, with doctors, and and then they went back and then they adapted the plans according to it.

So the length of the project really depends also on, of course, what, what does the client in this case, expect and, and we are now in, in discussion with a hospital that we hope for a longer collaboration and it looks that, quite positive so that we can really test several wards, several, rooms, over a longer time span and, and really be able to contribute to the planning process.

The mock ups that you mentioned, are there.

They can, we use them.

We we firstly, we built them and they are not evidence based.

We just said we want to visualize what we envision.

We want the spaces, to be also adaptable for architects, for planners to make changes, to color, live walls.

You really to have an experimental setting.

What we are doing now, we are planning a study since I mentioned we can be we can apply for funding, you know, like you do, at the Swiss National Science Foundation.

There are also other, funding, possibilities in Switzerland which fund, applied research or basically social, so we can apply for funding or we do consulting when a hospital approaches us or a company, then we write an offer.

So we are kind of in between.

But what we are planning now is using these mock up spaces for a study on the topic of patient falls.

And there we collaborate with Departure Tea Party and his team from Texas Tech.

They did a lot of studies on the topic of patient falls.

And we want we will redesign these spaces.

We will have two similar, physical mock ups of patient rooms, which will be mirrored.

And, we want to see how the physical impact, physical environment contributes to fall and we will focus very much on, for instance, on contrast, color contrast in, in the area of flooring walls, or for instance, the, the, the bathroom, you know, how is the toilet seat?

What is the color of the toilet seat in comparison to the floor?

Because we know for visually impaired people, they have quite struggle to orient themselves within spaces.

So, we will rebuild these spaces to use them for a study on patient falls.

And, the cost is something I said before I said I consider I also have a little bit we will have to be much faster than the university.

I used to be a professor at a university, and therefore I know that, you know, for research projects, you have to apply, you have to write the proposal and it it takes time.

And then you get the, the approval and then you can start.

And the research project takes, for instance, four years for a Swiss National Science Foundation project.

You can, run for years, but when we collaborate with industry partners or with hospital, it's going very fast.

So we get the request last week, we have to write the offer this week and next week we start the simulation.

So we have to be very quick and the costs.

So right now we have the privilege to be funded by the federal government and the canton of Bern.

So we use we could use this money for the infrastructure to build up the infrastructure to build the staffing.

But we cannot use it for research.

So there we have to apply for funding or we have to find project partners who pay for it.

And, so this is a challenge we have to, find out also in terms of pricing, because, you know, in Switzerland, consultant companies earn much more than architects.

So as we are considered something in between, you know, we we don't do the design ourselves.

We consult people, but still we are in a planning process where architects work.

And in Switzerland it is not usual to integrate users in the planning process.

In the early stages.

So we are somehow also aiming for a paradigm shift in the planning process, which is not quite easy.

And this also relates to the costs because, you know, architects say, okay, it's a nice idea what you are doing running these simulations, but we don't want to pay from our budget.

It should be the hospital that pays for that.

And the hospital says, no, we don't pay for it.

It should be the architect.

So it's we still have to figure out, you know, who is willing to pay for this simulation.

And we were lucky in the past that we found partners, hospitals who were willing to pay.

But this is something that, we have to figure out, because obviously it's a lot, a lot of work.

It's not only running the simulation.

Nora will tell you more about it next week.

It's about organizing it.

Planning it, writing the scripts, doing the debriefing, writing the reports, and then, so it's a lot of work in it that that is there.

I hope I could answer your question a little.

Thank you so much, doctor Sally, for your presentation, informative presentation, and also sharing about the wonderful activities at the center.