>> CROSSLEY: WELCOME TO "BASIC BLACK."

SOME OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR BROADCAST, AND OTHERS OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS.

I'M CALLIE CROSSLEY, HOST OF "UNDER THE RADAR," 89.7.

TONIGHT, "HUMAN LIVES, POLITICAL PAWNS: MIGRANTS IN MASSACHUSETTS."

THEY ARRIVED UNANNOUNCED ON THE SMALL ISLAND OF MARTHA'S VINEYARD-- NEARLY 50 MIGRANTS SEEKING ASYLUM AT THE SOUTHERN TEXAS BORDER, LURED ONTO PLANES HEADED FOR THE ISLAND WITH PROMISES OF FOOD AND JOBS.

MANY CALLED IT A POLITICAL STUNT SET UP BY FLORIDA GOVERNOR RON DESANTIS AS PART OF HIS ANTI-IMMIGRATION CAMPAIGN.

IT WAS A THROWBACK TO THE 1960S, WHEN SEGREGATIONISTS PUT AFRICAN AMERICANS ON A BUS HEADED NORTH WITH FALSE PROMISES OF JOBS AND HOUSING.

WHATEVER THE INTENT, THE MIGRANTS ON MARTHA'S VINEYARD WERE WARMLY GREETED, FED, AND TEMPORARILY HOUSED BY THE WORKING-CLASS COMMUNITY OF RESIDENTS WHO LIVE ON THE ISLAND YEAR-ROUND.

NOW, A CLASS ACTION SUIT HAS BEEN FILED ON THEIR BEHALF, AND THE ISSUE OF IMMIGRATION IS ONCE AGAIN FRONT AND CENTER.

WHAT'S NEXT FOR THE MIGRANTS CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE?

JOINING US: SARAH BETANCOURT, REPORTER GBH NEWS CENTER FOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING.

MIRIAN ALBERT, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY FOR LAWYERS FOR CIVIL RIGHTS IN BOSTON.

AND SARANG SEKHAVAT, POLITICAL DIRECTOR FOR THE MASSACHUSETTS IMMIGRANT AND REFUGEE ADVOCACY COALITION, MIRA.

WELCOME TO YOU ALL.

SO I WANT TO START THIS WAY.

THERE WERE 48 WHO ARRIVED ON MARTHA'S VINEYARD, SOME OF THEM AS YOUNG AS TWO YEARS OLD.

TWO OF THEM HAVE SINCE LEFT.

EACH OF YOU HAVE EITHER INDIRECTORY OR DIRECTLY COMMUNICATED WITH SOME OF THEM, AND I'D LIKE TO START OFF WITH YOU SHARING THE STORIES THAT THEY TOLD YOU ABOUT THEIR JOURNEY TO GET HERE -- I MEAN, ON THE ROAD, EVEN BEFORE THEY GOT ON THE PLANES.

SO MIRIAN, I'M GOING TO START WITH YOU.

>> SURE.

LAWYERS FOR CIVIL RIGHTS HAS BEEN ON THE GROUND SINCE THE NEWS BROKE OUT.

I WAS PERSONALLY IN MARTHA'S VINEYARD ON THURSDAY WHEN THE HUMAN RIGHTS ARRIVED AND YOU KNOW THE STORIES OUR CLIENTS HAVE SHARED HAVE BEEN HARROWING.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CHILDREN AND MOTHERS WHO WALKED THROUGH THE JUNGLE, RIGHT, WHO -- WE'RE TALKING ABOUT INDIVIDUALS WHO EXPERIENCED VIOLENCE AS THEY WERE CROSSING DIFFERENT COUNTRIES TO REACH THE UNITED STATES, INCLUDING, YOU KNOW, INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE KIDNAPPED BY THE CARTEL AND GANGS IN MEXICO AND OTHER PARTS, INDIVIDUALS WHO HAD THEIR TEETH PULLED OUT WITH PLIERS, WHO WERE TORTURED.

YOU KNOW, JUST A RANGE OF HARROWING EXPERIENCES AND REALLY WHAT OUR CLIENTS WERE SEEKING WAS SAFETY, NOT TO BE PART -- TO BE A PART OF A POLITICAL STUNT.

>> Crossley: SARAH, WHAT WERE YOU TOLD?

>> I INTERVIEWED A GENTLEMEN NAMED PEDRO PABLO, WHO TALKED ABOUT HIS JOURNEY TO VISHED VINEYARD.

HE -- TO MARTHA'S VINEYARD.

HE CAME FROM VENEZUELA, WAS AN ENGINEERING STUDENT, AND ENDED UP FLEEING AND LEAVING UNIVERSITY TO COME NORTH.

HE ENDED UP IN TEXAS, WAS CLAIMING ASYLUM, AND WAS LURED ON TO THESE PLANES WITH THE PROMISE OF GOING TO EITHER CHICAGO, MISSOURI OR NEW YORK, HE HAD MENTIONED, AND HE WAS REALLY SHOCKED AND REALLY UPSET WHEN HE FOUND OUT I'M ON THIS ISLAND OFF OF CAPE COD THAT I'VE NEVER HEARD OF.

AND WHAT HE TOLD ME WAS, LIKE, WELL, I JUST WANT TO COME HERE, I WANT TO GO TO UTAH AND WORK AS A WELDER AGAIN AND SEND MONEY HOME TO MY CHILDREN, THAT'S ALL I WANT.

I DON'T KNOW WHY I'M HERE.

>> Crossley: WHAT DID YOU HEAR, SARANG?

>> I'M PROBABLY THE ONLY ONE HERE WHO HASN'T HAD THE CHANCE TO SPEAK TO FOLKS DIRECTLY, BUT BASICALLY, WE HAVE BEEN HEARING EXACTLY JUST THESE STORIES REPEATED 48 TIMES, ESSENTIALLY, THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE BRINGING UP INDIVIDUAL STORIES, BUT EVERY ONE OF THESE FOLKS HAS GONE THROUGH SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THIS.

THEY ALL CAME TO THE U.S. BECAUSE THEY'RE VICTIMS, BECAUSE THEY'RE SEEKING SOME KIND OF REFUGE, AND JUST BEING VICTIMIZED AGAIN BY THIS WHOLE THING, BEING TAKEN, LIKE SARAH WAS MENTIONING, THEY TINTED KNOW WHERE THEY WERE GOING.

THEY WERE PROMISED, XY AND Z, NOT DELIVERED.

MY UNDERSTANDING IS THEY WERE TAKEN TO THE AIRPORT AND LEFT AT THE AIRPORT, AND HAD TO WALK TO THE NEAREST HELP ON THE ISLAND AND, YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT HELP IS, THEY'RE COMPLETELY NEW.

>> NOW, YOU'VE SAID THAT THIS WAS CRUEL AND INTENTIONALLY CRUEL.

EXPLAIN THAT.

>> SO A LOT OF WHAT WE HAVE BEEN SEEING FROM ANTI-IMMIGRANT FORCES REALLY HAS BEEN SORT OF CRUELTY BEING THE POINT, USING CRUELTY TO -- FOR TWO PURPOSES, I REALLY THINK, ONE IS TRYING TO DISSUADE PEOPLE FROM COMING HERE AND SAYING, WELL, IF YOU COME HERE YOU'RE JUST GOING TO BE REVICTIMMIZED.

BUT THE OTHER THING, I THINK, IS IT REALLY KIND OF BUILDS UP, FRANKLY, THE ANTI-IMMIGRANT BASE TO SEE THIS CRUELTY AND SEE PEOPLE BEING DEHUMANIZED.

>> Crossley: MIRIAN, YOU TALKED ABOUT VULNERABLE COMMUNITIES BEING AT RISK FOR WHAT SOME PEOPLE ARE CALLING A STUNT.

WOULD YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT?

>> RIGHT.

ALSO JUST TO ADD TO THAT LAST POINT, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, LIKE IT'S SUCH A CRUEL EXPERIENCE THAT, YOU KNOW, THESE INDIVIDUALS HAVE TRAVELED SO LONG AND, YOU KNOW, ONCE THEY WERE HERE, ONCE AGAIN, THEY WERE, YOU KNOW, USED AS POLITICAL PAWNS AND, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, AS IMMIGRANTS, OUR CLIENTS HAD NO MONEY, THEY HAD NO SHELTER, THEY REALLY HAD NO BELONGINGS, RIGHT?

THEY WERE IN SUCH A VULNERABLE STATE, WHEN THEY FIRST ENCOUNTERED, YOU KNOW, THE WOMAN THAT THEY'VE DESCRIBED AS PEARLA.

YOU KNOW, THIS IS, AGAIN, PREYING ON THEIR, LIKE, BARE NECESSITIES.

OFFERING THEM A GIFT CARD FOR McDONALD'S FOR $5.

WHY?

BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT'S THEIR BARE NECESSITY, RIGHT.

OFFERING THEM SHOES BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY HAVE BEEN WALKING FOR SO LONG THROUGH SO MANY COUNTRIES TO REACH THIS POINT AND HAVE NOTHING, RIGHT.

THEY'RE SO DESTITUTE AT THAT POINT, RIGHT.

SO, AGAIN, LIKE PREYING ON THEIR VULNERABILITIES.

>> SARAH, ANSWER A QUESTION MANY PEOPLE MAY HAVE BEEN ASKING.

WHO PAID FOR THIS?

>> FLORIDA GOVERNOR RON DESANTIS CLAIMED CREDIT FOR DOING THIS BACK IN THE BEGINNING OF THE SUMMER.

HIS STATE BUDGET WAS APPROVED TO INCLUDE $12 MILLION TO RE RE-HOME MIGRANTS.

HE HAD VISIT GO TO TEXAS AND TRY TO FIND PEOPLE IN BORDER TOWNS, SPECIFICALLY SAN ANTONIO, WHICH IS A LITTLE FURTHER NORTH, BUT TO GO TO THE BUS SHELTER, TO GO TO SOME OF THESE HOMELESS SHELTERS AND SAY, HEY, WHERE ARE YOU GOING AND IF THEY EXPRESSED ANY INTEREST IN GOING TO FLORIDA, HE ALLEGES THEN HE WANTED TO REHOME THEM AND GET THEM AWAY FROM POTENTIALLY GOING TO FLORIDA.

>> AND THAT'S HOW THIS PERSON NAMED PEARLA CAME INTO PLAY.

SO THIS PERSON HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AND WAS THE ASK-ER OF THESE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND.

>> YEAH, SHE HIRED ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL AS WELL TO DO THAT, WHO SINCE HAS SPOKEN TO THE "NEW YORK TIMES" AND CNN, I BELIEVE, AND HE DID NOT KNOW THEY WERE ALLEGEDLY -- ALLEGEDLY DID NOT KNOW THEY WERE GOING TO END UP IN MARTHA'S VINEYARD.

HE WAS JUST TOLD BY PEARLA, OH, THEY'RE GOING TO END UP IN A PLACE WHERE THEY CAN REALLY BE HELPED.

>> Crossley: ONE OTHER THING I WANTED TO BRING UP, YOU HAD BEEN REPORTING ABOUT BUSES FROM TEXAS GOVERNOR ABBOTT GOING TO NEW YORK CITY, AND THEN HEARING RUMORS THAT SOME MIGRANTS MIGHT END UP IN MASSACHUSETTS BEFORE THE MARTHA'S VINEYARD INCIDENT HAPPENED.

>> YEAH, SO THE TEXAS TO NEW YORK CITY, CHICAGO AND D.C.

BUSES HAVE BEEN HAPPENING FOR FOUR OR FIVE MONTHS, NOW, AND 9,000 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN BUSED NORTH, AND THERE'S BEEN SOME OVERFLOW INTO MASSACHUSETTS, PEOPLE COMING OF THEIR OWN VOLITION BECAUSE THERE'S VERY LITTLE SHELTER IN NEW YORK CITY TO MASSACHUSETTS, TO BOSTON HOSPITALS, SEEKING HELP.

AND BOSTON CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL AND MASS GENERAL HOSPITAL AND B.M.C.

MENTIONED TO ME, LIKE, YEAH, WE CAN CONFIRM THIS, AND WE HAVE PEOPLE SHOW UP WHO NEED SOCIAL SERVICES, NOT SO MUCH MEDICAL NEEDS, AND WE REFERRED THEM TO THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSITIONAL ASSISTANCE.

NOW, WE REPORTED THAT THREE HOURS BEFORE THE FLIGHT CAME IN, WHICH WAS UNPRECEDENTED.

>> Crossley: NOW, SARANG, I WANT TO GET SOMETHING CLEAR BECAUSE, WHEN PEOPLE HEAR ABOUT THESE MIGRANTS COMING, THE WORD THAT'S USED IS THEY'VE ENTERED INTO THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY.

HOWEVER, IF YOU'RE SEEKING ASYLUM, THAT'S KIND OF A GREY AREA HERE BECAUSE SEEKING ASYLUM IS A PROCESS ANYONE CAN ENTER INTO.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE GIVEN IT, LET'S BE CLEAR.

EVERYBODY WHO ASKS DOESN'T GET IT SO LET'S PUT THAT ON THE TABLE.

BUT AS YOU ARE ASKING FOR IT, YOU'RE SOMETHING ELSE IN TERMS OF YOUR STATUS.

JUST WANT TO HAVE YOU EXPLAIN THAT.

>> YEAH, SO THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO -- AND TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF HOW KIND OF RIDICULOUS IMMIGRATION LAW IS, THEY'RE LAWFULLY PRESENT BUT THEY DON'T HAVE LEGAL STATUS.

>> OKAY.

>> BUT BASICALLY WHAT THAT MEANS IS THEY'VE GONE THROUGH THE PROCESS THAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO GO THROUGH, THEY HAVE PRESENTED THEMSELVES TO THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY, AND THEY'VE SAID, HEY, WE'RE HERE, WE NEED HELP, WE WANT TO APPLY FOR ASYLUM.

SO THESE FOLKS ALL CAME IN, WHEN THEY ARRIVED AT MARTHA'S VINEYARD, THEY ALL HAD CHECK INNS WITH IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT.

SOME OF THEM HAD CHECK-INS IN THE NEXT WEEK.

I.C.E.

KNOWS WHO THEY ARE -- WELL, NOW THAT FLORIDA MOVED THEM, THEY DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY ARE, NECESSARILY.

THAT CAUSES SOME PROBLEMS FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

BUT THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN DOING THINGS THE WAY THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO THEM.

>> Crossley: LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS LAWSUIT, MIRIAN.

WHAT ARE YOU ALL ALLEGING?

YOU SHOULD SAY THAT YOUR ORGANIZATION BROUGHT THE LAWSUIT.

>> SURE.

SO LAWYERS FOR CIVIL RIGHTS FILED A CIVIL LAWSUIT IN FEDERAL COURT.

IT'S A CLASS ACTION.

THE CLASS ACTION WILL INCOME PASS THE 50 MIGRANTS FROM MARTHA'S VINEYARD BUT IT WILL ALSO ALLOW OTHER INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE SIMILARLY SITUATED IN THAT THEY ALSO ARE MINISTER WHO TRAVELED ACROSS STATE LINES BY FRAUDULENT INDUCEMENT AT THE HANDS OF GOVERNOR DeSANTIS OR THE STATE OF FLORIDA.

WE HOPE ONE OF THE GOALS OF THIS LAWSUIT IS TO ENSURE THAT THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN.

SO THAT IS ONE WAY TO ACCOMPLISH IT.

WE ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE OUR CLIENTS ARE MADE WHOLE AT THE END OF THIS, THAT THEY RECEIVE THE RESPECTTH RESPECT AND DIGNITY THEY DESERVE THROUGH THIS WHOLE ORDEAL.

THERE ARE VARIOUS CONSTITUTIONAL AND STATE CLAIMS ALLEGED INCLUDING FRAUD, YOU KNOW, FALSE IMPRISONMENT, SOME CONSTITUTIONAL CLAIMS INCLUDING EQUAL PROTECTION, DUE PROCESS VIOLATIONS, YOU KNOW, THE INTERFERENCE WITH IMMIGRATION LAW, AGAIN, LIKE THE STATE OF FLORIDA DOES NOT -- SHOULD NOT HAVE THE ABOUT TO INTERFERE WITH FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAW IN THE WAY THAT IT HAS DONE WITH OUR CLIENTS.

>> Crossley: SO I'VE ALSO HEARD POTENTIAL KIDNAPPING AND SEX TRAFFICKING.

IS THAT PART OF YOUR LAWSUIT?

THAT IS NOT A PART OF OUR LAWSUIT.

OUR FOCUS, LIKE I SAID, IS PREDOMINANTLY ON THOSE CONSTITUTIONAL CLAIMS AND THOSE STATE LAW CLAIMS.

>> Crossley: SO WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU WIN NOW?

WHAT HAPPENS?

>> RACHELLE, AS I MENTIONED, IT'S MAKING OUR CLIENTS FEEL WHOLE AGAIN AND ENSURING THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN AGAIN.

EVERY STATE ACROSS THE U.S.

UNDERSTANDS, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS KNOW THEY CAN'T INTERFERE WITH FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAW AND THAT YOU CAN'T TREAT HUMAN BEINGS JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE VULNERABLE OR IMMIGRANTS, YOU CAN'T TREAT THEM LIKE POLITICAL PAWNS.

>> Crossley: TO ALL OF YOU, THESE ARE MIGRANTS OF COLOR.

WHAT ROLE HAS RACE PLAYED OR IS PLAYING, EVEN IF IT HASN'T BEEN OUTRIGHTLY EXPRESSED, IN THESE KINDS OF INCIDENT, BOTH WITH THE BUSES AND DEFINITELY LANDING THESE PEOPLE ON MARTHA'S VINEYARD UNANNOUNCED?

I'LL START WITH YOU, SARANG.

>> ETH A REALLY BIG -- IT'S A REALLY BIG QUESTION, FRANKLY.

THE BEST WAY TO ANSWER IT IS I DON'T HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS SPECIFIC GROUP OF MIGRANTS, YOU JUST LOOK AT IMMIGRATION IN GENERAL AND HOW IT'S CONSTANTLY BEEN USED AS -- AMONG OTHER THINGS USED AS RACIAL POLICY IN THIS COUNTRY.

LOOK AT THE DISPARATE WAY WE TREAT HATIANS OFTEN IN THIS COUNTRY WHO ARE, AGAIN, SIMILARLY SITUATED.

A LIEUTENANT OF THESE FOLKS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHO ARE COMING UP FROM NEW YORK ARE HATIANS AND THEY'RE NOT GETTING THE SAME KIND OF SUPPORT WE'RE SEEING FROM THE VENEZUELA POPULATION NOW.

>> WE'RE NOT HEARD ABOUT THAT TO A LARGE EXTENT.

>> BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT COMING UP IN ONE BIG GROUP.

THEY'RE COMING UP PIECEMEAL.

IT DOESN'T GET ON ANYONE'S RADAR.

LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WAY WE SAY WE'RE WE CANALING UKRAINIAN REFUGEES BUT DON'T WANT HATIANS, FOR EXAMPLE.

RACIAL IDENTITIES AND POLICIES HAS ALWAYS BEEN A PIECE OF THIS.

>> Crossley: SARAH.

>> SPEAKING TO WHAT SARANG SAID, IT'S REALLY EMBEDDED IN THE IMMIGRATION SYSTEM.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE BOSTON ASYLUM APPROVAL RATINGS HERE, FIRST OF ALL, THE APPROVAL RATINGS ARE LOWER THAN ALMOST ANY OTHER ASYLUM OFFICE IN THE COUNTRY, SAVE NEW YORK, BUT, SECOND, IF YOU LOOK AT THE RACIAL DEMOGRAPHICS OF WHO IS APPROVED, ANYONE WHO IS BLACK OR BROWN, MUCH LOWER APPROVAL RATING THAN AN IMMIGRANT WHO IS WHITE.

AND IT ALSO HARKINS BACK TO -- ALL OF THIS HACKERRENS BACK TO THE REVERSE FREEDOM RIGHTS OF 1962 WHERE YOU HAVE WHITE SEGREGATIONALLIST GOVERNORS RESPONDING TO THE FREEDOM RIDERS SAYING WE'RE GOING TO BUS BLACK AMERICANS NORTH AND MISLEAD THEM IN DOING THAT.

>> Crossley: A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW, IF FREEDOM RIDERS, WERE MOSTLY YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ELECTED TO GET ON BUSES TO TEST THE SEGREGATIONIST LAWS OF TRANSPORTATION BECAUSE THE SUPREME COURT HAD RULED THAT SEPARATE BUT EQUAL WAS NOT EQUAL AND, SO, THIS WASN'T SUPPOSED TO BE HAPPENING IN LAWS, BUT IT HAPPENED.

SO THEY'RE GOING SOUTH TO MAKE SURE THAT THE LAWS ARE FOLLOWED AND SEGREGATIONISTS RESPONDED BY SAYING, OH, WE'LL SHOW YOU, WE'LL SEND BLACK PEOPLE NORTH AND SEE HOW YOU LIKE IT, KIND OF THING, JUST SO PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH HISTORY UNDERSTAND THAT.

HENCE, WE CALL IT THE REVERSE FREEDOM RIGHTS.

MIRIAN, RACE AS A FACTOR.

>> MINISTER OF COLOR HAS ALWAYS BEEN USED AS SCAPEGOATS, I THINK, HISTORICALLY TO DEAL WITH WHATEVER -- YOU KNOW, TO PERPETUATE WHITE SUPREMACY, IN ESSENCE, RIGHT, AND THAT CONTINUES TO BE TRUE TO THIS DAY, AND WE SEE THAT WITH WHAT MINISTER OF COLOR GET HELP OR WHAT IMMIGRANTS GENERALLY ARE ABLE TO GET ASSISTANCE.

>> Crossley: WHAT IS THE ONE THING YOU THINK HAS NOT BEEN HIGHLIGHTED OR OUGHT TO BE AS WE LOOK AT THE MARTHA'S VINEYARD SITUATION AND UNDERSTAND IT'S A MIKE KOSUM OF WHAT'S HAPPENING ACROSS THE COUNTRY?

I START WITH YOU, SARANG.

>> I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS, FRANKLY.

ONE OF THE THINGS A LOT OF FOLKS HAVE BROUGHT UP TO ME AND WHAT I THINK IS REALLY IMPORTANT IS IMMIGRATION ISN'T JUST A REFLECTION OF OUR OWN DOMESTIC POLICIES, IT'S ALSO A REFLECTION OF OUR FOREIGN POLICIES.

A LOT OF THE FACTOR THAT PUSH PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR OWN HOME COUNTRIES WE HAVE A LOT OF RESPONSIBILITY FOR.

I'M MOTT GOING TO SAY TOTAL RESPONSIBILITY, CERTAINLY, BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A HISTORY IN A LOT OF THESE COUNTRIES OF OUR INTERFERENCE THAT CAUSED LONG-TERM DESTABILIZATION AND REALLY ALMOST PROMOTES CORRUPTION AS THE WAY TO GET THINGS DONE AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT'S PUSHING PEOPLE OUT AND CAUSES THE VIOLENCE AND THE POVERTY THAT PEOPLE ARE SEEKING TO ESCAPE FROM.

>> Crossley: SARAH?

>> BASED OFF OF THAT, A LOT OF CENTRAL AMERICAN AND SOUTH AMERICAN GOVERNMENTS HAVE BEEN DEEPLY INFLUENCED BY THE U.S. GOVERNMENT IN THE PAST HUNDRED YEARS AND A LOT OF THAT HAS CAUSED POVERTY THAT IS RECURRING AND HASN'T BEEN FIXED OR THERE HASN'T BEEN MUCH OF A PROPOSAL TO FIX IT.

I KNOW BIDEN LAST YEAR HAD THE VICE PRESIDENT GO DOWN TO MEXICO AND INTO CENTRAL AMERICA TO SEE WHAT THE ROOTS OF MIGRATION ARE, AND IT'S, LIKE, WELL, LOOK TO D.C. FIRST.

BUT, ALSO, JUST SPEAK TO WHAT HASN'T REALLY BEEN LOOKED AT.

I MEAN, I LIKE TO THINK LOGISTICALLY, AND TO LOOK AT OUR STATE GOVERNMENT, TO LOOK AT THE BAKER ADMINISTRATION, LIKE, THERE WERE PEOPLE, FAMILIES ENDING UP UP HERE FROM THE NEW YORK CITY BUSES, AND I WOULDREICH TO KNOW, LIKE, WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THOSE FAMILIES AS WELL?

THERE'S HUNDREDS OF FAMILIES UP HERE.

I HAVE BEEN TALKING TO A LOT OF SOURCES.

WHAT'S BEING DONE TO HELP THEM AS WELL?

BECAUSE THE STATE KNOWS ABOUT THIS, THEY'RE JUST NOT TALKING TO MEDIA ABOUT IT.

>> Crossley: OKAY.

MIRIAN.

>> YOU KNOW, GOING OFF OF THAT POINT, I'D LIKE TO ADD THAT FOR OUR SPECIFIC CLIENTS, THEY RECEIVE SUCH A WARM WELCOME FROM THE LEGAL AND MARTHA'S VINEYARD COMMUNITY WHEN ALL THIS OCCURRED AND I HOPE THAT AT LEAST SPEAKING IN REGARDS TO THE LEGAL COMMUNITY THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO EXPAND THAT PRO-BONO SUPPORT THAT THEY PROVIDED OUR CLIENTS ALSO TO MIGRANTS WHO ARE ARRIVING ON BUSES BECAUSE IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S NOT FULLY ADDRESSED AND I THINK THERE IS THE WILL TO DO IT AND WE SHOULD ENCOURAGE OTHERS WHO HAVE THE CAPACITY TO DO THAT TO DO SO.

>> Crossley: I JUST WANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT THE PEOPLE ON MARTHA'S VINEYARD THAT GREETED THE MIGRANTS WARMLY, DeSANTIS THOUGHT HE WAS MAKING AN ATTACK ON RICH PEOPLE.

RICH PEOPLE ARE GONE ON THE SEASON, THE BIG HOUSES EVERYBODY SEES ARE CLOSED DOWN.

THERE'S A WHOLE POPULATION OF PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY WORKING CLASS OR POOR WHO LIVE THERE YEAR AROUND AND THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT GREETED THEM.

THEY HAVE ONE SHELTER ON THAT ISLAND.

SO FOLKS NEED TO KNOW THEY WERE SO ALL OFF ABOUT WHO THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE HURTING, IN FACT.

NOW, I WANT TO FOLLOW UP WITH YOU ABOUT THE LAWSUIT BECAUSE YOU ARE HOPING -- THE LAWYERS GROUP, YOU ARE HOPING OTHER JURISDICTIONS WILL PICK UP FROM WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND ALSO FILE A LAWSUIT.

>> THAT'S CORRECT, LAWYERS FOR CIVIL RIGHTS IS OPEN TO PROVIDING TECHNICAL SUPPORT TO, YOU KNOW, LEGAL ORGANIZATIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHO ALSO WANT TO FOLLOW SUIT IN CASE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S ALSO OCCURRING IN THEIR JURISDICTIONS AND WERE MORE THAN WILLING TO PROVIDE THAT TECHNICAL SUPPORT.

>> Crossley: NOW, SARANG, YOU SAID, I THINK RIGHTLY, THAT THIS IS CYCLICAL AND WHAT HAPPENS, AT LEAST THE PUBLIC DEBATE AROUND IMMIGRATION IS CYCLICAL.

WE HAVE AN INCIDENT AND EVERYBODY TALKS ABOUT IT, BUT NOTHING GETS DONE.

SO SINCE THIS HAS BEEN DESCRIBED AS A POLITICAL STUNT BY MANY, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS ITS IMPACT POLITICALLY NOW?

WE ARE WEEKS BEFORE THE MIDTERM THAT CLEARLY SEEMS TO BE WHAT THE CONNECTION OR THE DRIVE WAS TO HAVE THIS HAPPEN NOW.

HOW DO YOU SEE IT IMPACTING.

>> I'LL BE HONEST, IT'S HARD TO TELL.

YOU KNOW, FRANKLY, I DON'T THINK POLLS ARE GENERALLY THAT RELIABLE.

ONE THING I WOULD SAY IS I THINK IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THE MIDTERMS, I THINK IT'S ABOUT 2024 AS WELL, BECAUSE DeSANTIS CERTAINLY HAS HIS EYE ON RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT IN 2024, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE REASON TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS IS IT IS A BIG NATIONAL SPLASH, AND IT REALLY GETS THAT SUPPORT FROM A LOT OF THESE ANTI-IMMIGRANT FORCES.

>> Crossley: SARAH, YOUR TAKE.

>> PIGGY BACKING OFF WHAT SARANG JUST SAID, GOVERNOR ABBOTT, HIS OFFICE CLAIMED THEY DIDN'T KNOW THAT DeSANTIS WAS DOING THIS, BUT IT'S FANTASTIC THAT HE DID IT.

THEY WERE USING IT AS A RALLYING POINT AND, IN THE PRESS RELEASE AND PRESS STATEMENTS HE SENT TO REPORTERS, HE WAS SAYING, YOU KNOW, IF YOU ARE A BOARD OR GOVERNOR DEALING WITH MIGRATION, YOU SHOULD DO THE SAME THING.

>> Crossley: SO MY QUESTION WAS POLITICAL?

>> ABSOLUTELY, IT'S POLITICAL.

AND IT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT, GIVEN HAT THE FLORIDA GOVERNOR HAS EVEN MORE MONEY TO DO THIS FORCED RELOCATION.

>> Crossley: HOW DOES HE SPEND THAT MONEY NOW THAT FLORIDA IS DEVASTATED BY IAN?

>> I HAVE NO IDEA.

I MEAN, HE HAS -- THE BUDGET WAS 12 MILLION.

HE SPENT ABOUT 634,000, I THINK THE TRIBUNE OR THE "NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTED, AND THAT MEANS HE HAS 11.4 MILLION LEFT.

IT'S DESIGNATED FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OF FLORIDA TO SPEND ON RERECOLLECTION, BUT THE GOVERNOR IS THE GOVERNOR -- RELOCATION, BUT THE GOVERNOR CAN DESIGNATE WHERE THE MONEY GOES.

>> Crossley: MIRIAN, POLITICAL?

>> YEAH, DEFINITELY, I WOULD AGREE.

THAT IS, AGAIN, ONE OF THE GOALS FOR OUR LAWSUIT.

LAWYERS FOR CIVIL RIGHTS WANTS TO MAKE SURE HUMANS ARE NOT TREATED AS POLITICAL PAWNS, AND ALL THE RESPONSIBILITY PARTIES ARE GOING TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE AND WE'RE READY TO DO THAT AND I'M SURE OTHERS WILL BE WILLING TO JOIN THE FIGHT.

>> Crossley: PERSONAL REFLECTIONS FROM EACH OF YOU ABOUT THIS.

I'LL START WITH YOU, SARAH, BECAUSE YOU MENTIONED YOU MIRGTD IN 2006 BECAUSE YOU HAD A VISCERAL RESPONSE TO LISTENING TO SOME OF THE STORIES OF THE PEOPLE.

>> ACTUALLY, ONE OF THE ATTORNEYS I INTERVIEWED IMMIGRATED FROM VENEZUELA.

HIS NAME IS JULIO AND HE'S WORKING WITH AN ATTORNEY TO GET A GROUP OF FIVE INDIVIDUALS, ASYLUMS TO GET VIS SAC TO CRIME VICTIMS.

HE FELT VERY STRONGLY ABOUT THIS.

HE IS, LIKE, YEAH, THIS IS HAPPENING TO MY PEOPLE AND IT'S NOT OKAY AND THIS CAN'T KEEP HAPPENING TO MORE PEOPLE.

SO IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING TO HEAR THAT PERSPECTIVE FROM HIM.

AS AN IMMIGRATION REPORTER, NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT.

>> Crossley: MIRIAN?

>> ALL RIGHT.

I THOUGHT IT WAS HEARTBREAKING, I MEAN, LISTENING TO MY CLIENTS TALK ABOUT HOW SOME BROKE DOWN IN TEARS WHEN THEY ARRIVED AT MARTHA'S VINEYARD, WHEN THEY SAW THEY WERE ABANDONED, HAD NOWHERE TO GO, MOTHERS WHO HAD CHILDREN WITH THEM, THE DESPERATION THEY DESCRIBED WAS HEARTBREAKING AND I DON'T THINK ANY PERSON SHOULD HAVE TO FEEL THAT WAY.

>> Crossley: YOU'RE FIGHTING FOR $20 MILLION IN SUPPLEMENTAL BUDGET MONEY TO TRY TO ADDRESS SOME OF THESE ISSUES.

PUT THAT TOGETHER WITH, YOU KNOW, THE VULNERABILITY OF THE PEOPLE THAT YOU'VE HEARD FROM HERE.

>> SO ONE OF THE BIG CHALLENGES THAT A LOT OF FOLKS HAVE IS WE JUST DON'T KNOW WHEN YOU GET THESE CALLS WHEN FOLKS SHOW UP AT THE HOSPITAL, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY DON'T KNOW WHERE TO REFER THEM TO.

THOSE SERVICES, THERE'S NO SORT OF CENTRAL PLACE THAT CAN KEEP TRACK OF WHO'S COMING IN, WHAT SERVICES ARE AVAILABLE WHERE.

SO THAT 20 MILLION WE'RE REALLY HOPING WILL KIND OF GO TOWARDS CREATING MORE OF A SYSTEM ON THE STATE SIDE TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE THESE KIND OF ISSUES.

>> Crossley: OKAY.

WELL, WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.

I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL OF YOU ENGAGING IN THIS REALLY POWERFUL DISCUSSION.

SOMETHING TELLS ME WE'LL BE BACK AT THIS TABLE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION AGAIN.

SO I DON'T THINK IT'S THE LAST WE'VE HEARD OF THIS.

THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> CROSSLEY: THAT'S THE END OF OUR BROADCAST, AND THE END OF OUR SHOW.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

AND NOW, STAY WITH US, AS WE CONTINUE OUR CONVERSATION ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS, FACEBOOK AND YOUTUBE.

CAPTIONED BY MEDIA ACCESS GROUP AT WGBH ACCESS.WGBH.ORG