>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY THE NEEPER NATURAL HISTORY PROGRAMMING FUND FOR KNME-TV AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, A PLAN TO MAKE NEW MEXICO A HUB FOR HYDROGEN POWER ISN'T GOING DOWN EASILY.

THE LATEST ATTEMPT TO REVISE THE CONTROVERSIAL LEGISLATION.

>> Gutzler: I AM NOT AT ALL CONFIDENT THAT WE CAN MEET ANY KIND OF LONG-TERM GOALS ABOUT REDUCING EMISSIONS.

>> Gene: A CLIMATE SCIENTIST ASSESSES THE CHANGES WE ARE SEEING IN NEW MEXICO AND WHAT CAN HAPPEN IF ACTION ISN'T TAKEN SOON.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

I AM YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

WE ARE IN FOR A JAMPACKED WEEK AHEAD AS THE DEADLINE FOR THE REGULAR LEGISLATIVE SESSION INCHES CLOSER.

LAWMAKERS IN BOTH CHAMBERS ARE TRYING TO FINALIZE A MASSIVE BUDGET PLAN AND AVALANCHE OF OTHER BILLS COVERING ISSUES FROM CRIME TO CARBON EMISSIONS.

A PACKAGE OF VOTING REFORMS IS MOVING FORWARD INTO THE STATE SENATE BUT WITHOUT A CONTROVERSIAL MEASURE TO LOWER THE LEGAL VOTE AGE TO 16.

THE LEGISLATION WOULD ALLOW VOTERS TO RECEIVE AN ABSENTEE BALLOT EACH ELECTION WITHOUT HAVING TO REQUEST ONE.

AFTER THE FIRST TIME.

IT WOULD ALSO AUTOMATICALLY REGISTERED QUALIFIED NEW MEXICANS TO VOTE AFTER COMPLETING A TRANSACTION AT MVD.

IT WOULD RESTORE THE VOTING RIGHTS FELONS UPON THEIR RELEASE AND MAKE EVERY STATE-WIDE ELECTION A HOLIDAY.

IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE SHOW, THE LINE OPINION PANELISTS EXPLAIN WHY LAWMAKERS MIGHT HAVE A TOUGH TIME BEFORE THE SESSION END.

MAJOR FUNDING INCREASES FOR POLICE AGENCIES AROUND THE STATE ARE LIKELY TO PASS AN HISTORIC EIGHT-AND-A-HALF BILLION DOLLAR BUDGET PLAN, BUT IS ENOUGH ATTENTION BEING PAID TO CORRECTIONS WORKERS?

WE'LL CHECK IN WITH THE LINE IN ABOUT 20 MINUTES FOR THEIR THOUGHTS AS THE UNION PRESIDENT AT BERNALILLO COUNTY JAIL WARNS OF IMPENDING STAFFING CRISIS.

BUT FIRST, A PLAN TO MAKE NEW MEXICO A HUB FOR HYDROGEN ENERGY HAS POTENTIALLY BEEN REVIVED IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE FOR A THIRD TIME.

NOW, INSTEAD OF OFFERING TAX CREDITS TO COMPANIES INVOLVED IN HYDROGEN DEVELOPMENT AND STORAGE, THE NEW PLAN REQUIRES THOSE BUSINESSES APPLY FOR FUNDING.

IT WOULD ALSO CREATE NEW EMISSIONS STANDARDS FOR ANYONE INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS, BUT ARE THOSE CHANGES ENOUGH TO WIN OVER LAWMAKERS CONCERNED ABOUT THE LONG-TERM ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS ON THE PLAN?

LET'S GET TO THE LINE.

WELCOME TO OUR PANELISTS.

WE'RE JOINED THIS WEEK BY FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE AND HOUSE MINORITY WHIP DANIEL FOLEY RIGHT THERE IN HIS GARAGE.

WE ARE HAPPY TO WELCOME BACK ANDY LYMAN, REPORTER AT NEW MEXICO POLITICAL REPORT AND A BIG THANK YOU TO INEZ RUSSELL GOMEZ FOR PINCH HITTING FOR US THIS WEEK AT THE LAST MINUTE.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING WITH US THIS WEEK.

NOW, THE HYDROGEN HUB PLAN IS BACK FROM THE DEAD FOR A THIRD TIME AS WE SIT HERE TAPING ON THURSDAY, NOW, WITH SEVERAL CHANGES.

BEFORE WE GET INTO THE MEAT OF WHAT IS INSIDE THE BILL, SOME OF OUR VIEWERS MIGHT WONDER HOW THIS PROPOSAL IS ABLE TO BE REVIVED IN THE FIRST PLACE AFTER LAST WEEK'S FILING DEADLINE FOR NEW LEGISLATION.

ANDY, CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW THIS WORKS AND THE IDEA OF A DUMMY BILL AND HOW THAT ALL WORKS.

>> Andy: SO, YEAH, AS FAR AS MY KNOWLEDGE ABOUT IT IS THAT LEADERSHIP AND THAT MEANS MINORITY LEADERSHIP IN BOTH THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE GET SORT OF A PACKAGE DEAL OF SORT OF BLANK BILLS AND THERE IS USUALLY -- THE TITLE IS RELATING TO THE PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY WELFARE OF THE STATE AND IT SORT OF IS JUST BLANK.

THOSE ARE USED FOR SOMETIMES AND WE SAW THIS IN 2013 WITH THE, QUOTE, BREAKING BAD HOLD HARMLESS BILL.

WE HAVE SEEN IT IN YEARS SINCE THEN AS WELL WHERE YOU GET PAST THE DAY TO INTRODUCE NEW LEGISLATION AND YOU CAN TAKE THAT BILL.

IT HAS ALREADY BEEN INTRODUCED, IT'S ALREADY THERE, SO YOU JUST AMEND IT, MAYBE DO A COMMITTEE SUB, AND ADD THE MEAT OF THE BILL IN THERE.

THAT IS HOW THIS IS ALLOWED TO SORT OF BRING BACK BECAUSE WE ARE PAST THE DATE TO INTRODUCE NEW LEGISLATION.

>> Gene: INTERESTING POINTS THERE.

DAN, YOU'RE NO STRANGER TO DUMMY BILLS AND HOW THIS ALL WORKS BUT THIS NEW BILL, HOUSE BILL 228, RIGHT?

>> Dan: WHOA, WHOA, WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

COME ON.

I PASSED LIKE THREE BILLS IN MY ENTIRE CAREER AND YOU'RE GOING TO TELL ME I AM NO STRONGER TO DUMMY BILLS.

THAT ALIEN DAY WAS AN EXTREMELY CRUCIAL PIECE OF LEGISLATION IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO.

>> Gene: PEOPLE STILL TALK ABOUT IT TO THIS DAY.

HOWEVER, HOUSE BILL 228 WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE.

NO MORE TAX CREDITS.

INSTEAD BUSINESSES WILL HAVE TO APPLY FOR THAT MONEY.

VERY INTERESTING CHANGES AND THERE ARE DIFFERENT EMISSIONS STANDARDS.

THESE ARE TWEAKS THAT DIDN'T FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE THE OBJECTIVE OF THE PLAN BUT ARE THEY ENOUGH TO CHANGE THE RESULT AND GET IT THROUGH THE COMMITTEE AT VERY LEAST?

>> Dan: I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING.

RIGHT NOW THIS IS -- THERE IS A FEW THINGS RIGHT NOW WHERE THERE IS A RUSH NATIONALLY FOR PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS TO BE THE FIRST TO DO, RIGHT.

THIS IS THINGS THAT REPUBLICANS -- WHEN I SAY PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS I DON'T MEAN THAT LIKE REPUBLICANS DON'T DO THIS ALSO, RIGHT.

IF REPUBLICANS ARE IN CHARGE THERE IS RUN TO DO THINGS.

YOU WANT TO BE THE FIRST STATE TO DO SOMETHING.

SO THERE IS A DESIRE, I BELIEVE, FROM THE FOURTH FLOOR TO SEE SOMETHING LIKE THIS COME OUT FROM WHAT I UNDERSTOOD TO BE OUT THERE.

BUT THE PROBLEM IS I THINK WHAT YOU'RE WITNESSING IS KIND OF WHAT IS GOING ON IN WASHINGTON, D.C.

RIGHT NOW.

PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS HAVE A MOVEMENT.

THEY ARE KIND OF IN CHARGE AND IT IS KIND OF A BATTLE INTERNALLY.

HERE IS THE THING, IT DOESN'T TAKE A REPUBLICAN VOTE TO PASS ANYTHING IN SANTA FE.

FROM DAY ONE.

THEY DON'T NEED A SINGLE REPUBLICAN VOTE TO PASS ANYTHING IN THE HOUSE, SENATE OR FOR THE GOVERNOR TO SIGN.

CLEARLY THERE IS SOME SORT OF SOMETHING THAT IS CAUSING SOME CONSTERNATION WITHIN THE DEMOCRAT CAUCUS AND YOU HAVE TO NOW TRY TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO APPEASE THE PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS THAT SAY, LOOK, WE WANT ALL THIS STUFF, WHILE YOU'RE KEEPING IN TOW THE CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRATS, ESPECIALLY FROM RURAL NEW MEXICO WHICH YOU'LL TALK MORE ABOUT IN A BIT THAT ARE SAYING, HOLD ON A SECOND, I AM NOT SURE THIS IS SOMETHING BY RANCHING CONSTITUENTS WANT OR MY OIL AND GAS TYPES WANT.

SO THERE IS A CONSTANT BATTLE OF TRYING TO PUT ALL OF THAT STUFF TOGETHER.

WHENEVER YOU SEE THIS HAPPEN LIKE THIS, IT JUST TELLS YOU THAT THE DEMOCRATS AREN'T ALL RUNNING IN THE SAME DIRECTION BUT EVENTUALLY THEY WILL.

LOTS OF TIMES THIS LATE IN THE GAME YOU'LL LET LEADERSHIP INTRODUCE BILLS JUST TO KIND OF KEEP PEOPLE HAPPY.

HEY, YOU GOT YOUR BILL INTRODUCED, GO AHEAD AND DO IT.

I DON'T THINK THEY WOULD BE PUTTING THIS MUCH EFFORT INTO IT IF THEY DIDN'T THINK THEY WERE CLOSE TO GETTING SOMETHING DONE.

>> Gene: INTERESTING POINTS THERE.

I APPRECIATE THAT.

INEZ, THE WAY THIS HAS PLAYED OUT IS INTERESTING.

PARTICULARLY HOUSE SPEAKER EGOLF WAS THE ONE TO TABLE THAT SECOND ATTEMPT AT THIS HYDROGEN HUB ACT.

MADE THAT MOVE.

THERE WAS PROTEST OVER THE LEGISLATION OUTSIDE.

THERE WERE HIGH SCHOOL KIDS PROTESTING OUTSIDE THE ROUNDHOUSE, YOU REMEMBER THAT DAY.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE SPEAKERS TACTICS IN THE SESSION SO FAR, PARTICULARLY ON THIS ISSUE?

>> Inez: DAN IS EXACTLY RIGHT.

THERE IS A SPLIT AMONG THE DEMOCRATS BUT IT IS PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS THAT ARE AGAINST HYDROGEN BECAUSE HYDROGEN IS BASED ON USING A FOSSIL FUEL AND GETTING THAT FOSSIL FUEL, NATURAL GAS AND ALL THE DIFFERENT THINGS YOU DO TO USE HYDROGEN INVOLVES FRACKING.

SO, THE ENVIRONMENTALISTS WHO HAVE BEEN SOME OF THE GOVERNOR'S BIGGEST SUPPORTERS HAVE BEEN AGAINST THIS BILL SINCE BEFORE SHE EVEN TALKED ABOUT IT.

I REMEMBER GETTING EMAILS FROM DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS BEFORE SHE INTRODUCED IT SAYING, WATCH FOR HYDROGEN.

THERE IS NO CLEAN HYDROGEN.

THEY VIEW IT AS THE LATEST CLEAN COAL, WHICH WAS NOT CLEAN.

AND AS THE LAST GASP OF OIL AND GAS TRYING TO STAY ALIVE AND BE ABLE TO PRODUCE THINGS.

SO, EGOLF, I THINK, UNDERSTANDS WHO SUPPORTS DEMOCRATS IN NEW MEXICO AND KNOWS IT IS NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME.

AT LEAST THAT IS MY READING OF IT.

I HAVEN'T SPOKEN TO HIM.

AND HE TABLED IT.

GOVERNOR I WAS TOLD IS SO COMMITTED TO GETTING SOMETHING DONE THAT SHE IS GOING TO KEEP COMING BACK AND SHE IS VERY PERSISTENT.

MY TAKE FROM A POLITICAL VIEWPOINT IS WHY DO YOU WANT TO MAKE ANGRY SOME OF YOUR BIGGEST SUPPORTERS WHICH ARE THE ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT IN FAVOR OF THIS AT ALL.

JASON SANDEL IS SOMEBODY WHO WROTE A PRO HYDROGEN EDITORIAL, THE REPUBLICAN FROM FARMINGTON.

SO, THOSE ARE THE KIND OF PEOPLE WHO ARE FOR HYDROGEN.

>> Dan: JASON IS A DEMOCRAT.

HE IS NOT A REPUBLICAN.

>> Inez: OH, YOU ARE RIGHT.

SORRY.

HE IS A CONSERVATIVE, THOUGH.

>> Dan: SO, I THINK INEZ IS SORT OF RIGHT, BUT I THINK THE PROBLEM IS THE DIFFERENCE, WHICH WE'LL TALK ABOUT AND NOW IS A GOOD TIME TO BRING UP THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RURAL AND URBAN DEMOCRATS IN NEW MEXICO.

SHE IS RIGHT, YOU KNOW, ENVIRONMENTALISTS, LIBERALS, PROGRESSIVES, REALLY STRONG SUPPORTERS OF THE DEMOCRAT PARTY IN ALBUQUERQUE, SANTA FE, KIND OF GETTING INTO POCKETS IN OTHER PLACES, I AM GOING TO TELL YOU RIGHT NOW, IF YOU'RE A DEMOCRAT RUNNING FOR OFFICE IN SOUTHEASTERN NEW MEXICO, NORTHWEST NEW MEXICO, THOSE AREN'T YOUR FRIENDS.

RIGHT?

THEY MAY BE THE GUYS THAT SHOW UP TO VOTE FOR YOU BUT THAT IS NOT WHOSE DOORS YOU'RE KNOCKING ON TO RAISE FUND.

THAT IS NOT WHOSE DOORS THAT YOUR REPUBLICAN OPPONENT IS GOING TO BE KNOCKING ON, SO I THINK EVEN THOUGH THERE IS THE DISCUSSION WE MADE THAT THE ENVIRONMENTALISTS ARE THE FRIENDS OF THE DEMOCRATS, CLEARLY, THEY ARE NOT VOTING FOR REPUBLICANS, YOU HAVE A LOT OF DEMOCRATS THAT ARE, LIKE, HOLD ON, I WANT TO TAKE THE MONEY.

I WANT TO TAKE THE VOTE FROM THOSE GUYS BUT I GOT TO KEEP THE OTHER SIDE HAPPY OVER HERE BECAUSE MY DISTRICT IS 60/40.

YOU GO ANYWHERE FROM HOBBS, TO ROSWELL, TO CARLSBAD, ARTESIA, YOU'RE GOING TO BE IN TROUBLE IF YOU'RE A DEMOCRAT.

>> Gene: LET ME ASK OF THIS ANDY.

I SEE YOU SORT OF WATCHING THE CONVERSATION AND GIVEN HOW THIS HAS BEEN RECEIVED.

ARE THERE LEGITIMATE QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW THE HYDROGEN PLAN WAS EVEN ROLLED OUT IN THE FIRST PLACE?

DID GOVERNOR AND DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP GIVE THEMSELVES ANY KIND OF RUNWAY, AS INEZ MENTIONED A SECOND AGO, TO APPEAL TO THE PROGRESSIVE COLLEAGUES, THE GENERAL PUBLIC?

THERE WASN'T MUCH MENTIONED ABOUT THIS UNTIL IT WAS RIGHT IN FRONT OF US JUST BEFORE THE SESSION STARTED.

>> Andy: YEAH.

TO THAT POINT I GUESS, IT WAS NO SECRET THAT THESE GROUPS THAT ARE OUT THERE PROTESTING NOW WERE AGAINST THIS BEFORE.

EVEN SPEAKER EGOLF HAS BEEN SORT OF THE TARGET OF SOME OF THESE GROUPS IN PREVIOUS ELECTIONS SAYING -- ALL POLITICIANS, REALLY, FROM THESE ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS SAYING THEY ARE IN THE POCKETS OF THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY, BECAUSE EVERYBODY GETS MONEY FROM OIL AND GAS BASICALLY.

SO, I DON'T KNOW THAT COULD HAVE BEEN -- I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WAS A STRATEGY OR IF THERE WAS A STRATEGY.

I WILL SAY THAT MAKING SORT OF THE PROGRESSIVES MAD ON THIS ONE ISSUE MAY NOT HURT HER IN NOVEMBER GIVEN THE FACT THAT THEIR OPTIONS ARE REPUBLICANS, RIGHT?

SO I DON'T KNOW.

>> Gene: INTERESTING POINT THERE, BUT HOW DOES THIS BILL MESH WITH THE REST OF THE GOVERNOR'S CLIMATE AGENDA?

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

THERE IS LOTS OF OTHER CLIMATE STUFF ON THE AGENDA.

HOW DOES SHE RECONCILE ALL THESE THINGS?

>> Inez: THEY RECONCILE IT BY CLAIMING THAT THIS IS CLEAN HYDROGEN AND IT WILL HELP US BUT THE SCIENCE, AT LEAST THE STUDY THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE AGAINST IT QUOTE, SHOW THAT THIS IS 20% WORSE FOR THE ENVIRONMENT WHEN YOU BURN HYDROGEN THAN WHEN YOU BURN JUST REGULAR FOSSIL FUELS.

SO, I DON'T SEE HOW YOU BALANCE IT.

TO ME CLIMATE CHANGE IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS YOU ARE ALL IN OR YOU'RE NOT AND TRYING TO SPLIT THE DIFFERENCE IS DAMAGING.

TO ANDY'S POINT, OBVIOUSLY, IF YOU'RE RUNNING AGAINST A PERSON WHO DOESN'T BELIEVE CLIMATE CHANGE EXISTS YOU'RE GOING TO GET THE SUPPORT OF THE GREEN COMMUNITY, THE PROGRESSIVE COMMUNITY, BUT I THINK IT IS A MISTAKE TO TAKE THAT FOR GRANTED WHEN YOU NEED ENTHUSIASM TO WIN WHEN YOUR POLL NUMBERS ARE A LITTLE BIT LAGGING COMPARED TO WHERE YOU WOULD LIKE THEM TO BE.

I WOULD URGE ANY POLITICIAN NOT TO TAKE THEIR SUPPORTERS FOR GRANTED.

>> Gene: WE HAVE A TEXAN THAT OWNS OUT IN PREWITT NEW MEXICO THEY WANT TO FLIP THIS TO A HYDROGEN PLANT.

WE HAVE A LOT OF TEXANS SNIFFING AT THIS BUSINESS BECAUSE THERE IS NATURAL PIPELINES IN TEXAS FOR ALL THIS STUFF.

ARE WE BEING LED BY THE NOSE HERE ON HYDROGEN?

DO WE HAVE A PLAY HERE OR ARE MARKET FORCES GOING TO MAKE NEW MEXICO SORT OF AN ALSO RAN ON THIS.

>> Dan: LOOK, WE ARE A MARKET FORCE IN A LOT OF THINGS THAT PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE.

YOU HAVE GOT TO REMEMBER WHEN THE BROWNOUTS HAPPENED OUT IN CALIFORNIA, THERE WERE SOME DISCUSSIONS IN NEW MEXICO.

WE ARE A BIG INTERCHANGE FOR STUFF GOING FROM TEXAS WEST AND STUFF COMING DOWN FROM WYOMING GOING EAST.

BIG INTERCHANGES UP IN FARMINGTON, NEW MEXICO.

SO WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO BE A BIG PLAYER.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO REMEMBER, AS WELL, I AM NOT ACCUSING ANYBODY ON THE SHOW.

ENVIRONMENTALISTS LIKE TO RAIL AGAINST THE OIL AND GAS COMMUNITY BUT ALL THE SAME ENVIRONMENTALISTS WANT THE OIL AND GAS COMMUNITY'S TAXES TO PAY FOR FULL-DAY KINDERGARTEN AND ALL THE OTHER PROGRAMS.

I THINK THE GOVERNOR IS IN A UNIQUE POSITION, RIGHT?

SHE HAS NOT ONLY TO APPEAL TO HER BASE, AS MOST PEOPLE LEARN IN POLITICS, BUT THERE IS ALSO A POINT SHE HAS TO GOVERN, RIGHT?

SHE HAS TO SAY, HEY, LISTEN, I WANT TO DELIVER ON CRIME PACKAGES AND EDUCATION PACKAGES.

THAT MONEY HAS TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE AND ONE DAY HOPING THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY IS GONE OUT OF NEW MEXICO, THERE IS NOTHING ON THE HORIZON TO REPLACE THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY, THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY TODAY.

WE HOPE -- PEOPLE HOPE CANNABIS IS GOING TO MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION BUT I DON'T THINK WE ARE BEING LED BY ANYBODY.

I THINK THERE IS LOTS OF THINGS -- IN TEXAS THEY ARE A LOT MORE FORWARD THINKING IN THEIR PROGRESSIVENESS WITH OIL AND GAS DRILLING AND THINGS THEY ARE DOING.

WHEN WE STARTED GETTING HARD ON DRILLING IN NEW MEXICO, EVERYBODY WENT RIGHT ACROSS THE BORDER AND STARTED HORIZONTAL DRILLING RIGHT INTO NEW MEXICO SUCKING THE OIL OUT.

WE GOT NO TAXES FOR IT.

WE NEED TO BE ON THE CUTTING EDGE OF SOME OF THESE THINGS THAT WE ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO.

WE ARE LOOKING AT -- WE HAD OR NAME MENTIONED -- >> Gene: WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME, DAN, SORRY ABOUT THAT.

ENERGY SECRETARY GRANHOLM WAS IN TOWN A FEW MONTHS AGO.

THERE IS A LOT OF ACTIVITY.

WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR PERSPECTIVES ON THE ISSUE.

WE'LL CHECK BACK WITH YOU IN ABOUT 10 MINUTES FOR AN UPDATE ON THE CRIME FIGHTING LEGISLATION IN THE CAPITOL AND A POTENTIAL STAFFING CRISIS AT THE BERNALILLO COUNTY JAIL.

BUT, UP FIRST, WE CHECK IN WITH REPRESENTATIVE MELLANIE STANSBURY AND HER WORK IN WASHINGTON D.C., MUCH OF THAT EFFORT BUILDS ON HER YEARS OF EXPERIENCE IN WATER PLANNING.

SHE RECENTLY CAUGHT UP WITH ENVIRONMENT REPORTER LAURA PASKUS TO TALK ABOUT A NEW BILL THAT WOULD IMPROVE WATER QUALITY FOR TRIBES.

SHE'LL ALSO TALK ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE AND WHY IT SO RARELY RISES TO THE TOP OF CONCERNS FOR LAWMAKERS.

>> Laura: REPRESENTATIVE STANSBURY THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME TODAY.

>> Stansbury: IT IS WONDERFUL TO BE HERE WITH YOU.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> Laura: IT IS GREAT TO HAVE YOU.

IN DECEMBER, YOU INTRODUCED WATER ACCESS FOR TRIBES ACT.

IF THIS WERE PASSED, WHAT WOULD IT MEAN FOR NEW MEXICO'S TRIBES?

>> Stansbury: THE REASON WHY WE INTRODUCED THIS BILL IS THERE IS SO MANY PROGRAMS OUT THERE THAT HELP TO SUPPORT OUR COMMUNITIES IN BUILDING OUT WATER INFRASTRUCTURE, WATER CONSERVATION PROJECTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT ONE OF THE MAJOR BARRIERS IS THEY OFTEN REQUIRE FEDERAL COST SHARE.

SO THE COMMUNITY HAS TO BRING MONEY TO THE TABLE AS WELL.

WHAT WE HAVE FOUND IS THAT OVER HISTORY, ESPECIALLY WITH THIS PROGRAM, MANY TRIBAL COMMUNITIES HAVE REALLY FOUND THAT AS A BARRIER TO ACCESS.

SO THIS BILL WOULD HELP TO WAIVE THAT COST SHARE SO THAT MORE TRIBAL COMMUNITIES CAN ACCESS THESE GRANTS.

>> Laura: ARE THESE GRANTS FOR WATER QUALITY OR WATER QUANTITY OR BOTH?

>> Stansbury: THESE ARE MOSTLY PROGRAMS THROUGH THE BUREAU OF RECLAMATION WATER SMART PROGRAM AND SO THAT PROGRAM HELPS SUPPORT ESPECIALLY WATER CONSERVATION INITIATIVES FOR ADDRESSING WATER INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS, REDUCING WATER USE, THINGS LIKE THAT.

THESE WOULD BE GRANTS FOR WHATEVER KIND OF PROGRAM TRIBAL COMMUNITIES WOULD WANT TO UNDERTAKE TO HELP IMPROVE WATER MANAGEMENT LOCALLY WITHIN A TRIBAL COMMUNITY.

>> Laura: THERE ARE TWO OTHER BILLS TO MENTION THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL AND THE BUILD BACK BETTER ACT.

WHAT COULD THOSE MEAN FOR NEW MEXICO'S WATER INFRASTRUCTURE?

>> Stansbury: THE BIGGEST SINGLE THING THAT HAPPENED IN WATER AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL OVER THE LAST YEAR IS PASSING OF THE BIPARTISAN INFRASTRUCTURE BILL WHICH HAPPENED IN NOVEMBER WHICH I WAS PROUD TO SUPPORT AND VOTE IN FAVOR OF.

AND THAT BILL MAKES A 1.2 TRILLION-DOLLAR INVESTMENT IN AMERICAN INFRASTRUCTURE INCLUDING BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF INVESTMENTS IN DRINKING WATER AND WESTERN WATER INFRASTRUCTURE.

AND SO THAT BILL PASSED AND SIGNED INTO LAW.

OUR PRESIDENT IS CURRENTLY WORKING WITH OUR AGENCY TO ADMINISTER THOSE PROGRAMS AND OUR STATE HAS ACTUALLY SET UP ALSO A PROCESS BY WHICH TO GET THOSE DOLLARS ON THE GROUND.

SO, WE ANTICIPATE THAT BECAUSE OF THAT BILL, NEW MEXICO IS GOING TO SEE ABOUT 350 MILLION-DOLLARS OF FORMULA FUNDING FOR DRINKING WATER PROJECTS AS WELL AS POSSIBLY MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR ALL KINDS OF DROUGHT AND OTHER WATER RESILIENCE PROJECTS.

SO, WE ARE WORKING HARD WITH THE STATE AND AS YOU KNOW OUR GOVERNOR HAS APPOINTED MIKE HAMMOND TO HELP SUPPORT GETTING THOSE DOLLARS ON THE GROUND AND WE ARE WORKING VERY CLOSELY WITH OUR COMMUNITIES TO INVENTORY WHAT KIND OF PROJECTS NEED FUNDING.

I'LL TELL YOU, ABOUT A WEEK-AND-A-HALF AGO I JOINED THE GOVERNOR AND OTHER MEMBERS OF THE DELEGATION AND MAYOR'S AND LOCAL OFFICIALS FROM ACROSS THE STATE AND WATER AND BROADBAND REALLY ARE THE TWO TOP MOST CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE ISSUES FOR OUR STATE RIGHT NOW.

AND SO WE KNOW THAT THOSE INFRASTRUCTURE DOLLARS ARE GOING TO BE SPENT WELL.

BUT THE BUILD BACK BETTER ACT IS STILL IN FRONT OF CONGRESS.

AS MANY VIEWERS HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING, WE PASSED IT IN THE HOUSE IN NOVEMBER BUT IT STILL REMAINS TO BE PASSED IN THE SENATE AND RIGHT NOW THEY ARE BACK AT THE NEGOTIATING TABLE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A PASS FORWARD FOR THAT BILL.

WHAT IS IMPORTANT ABOUT THE BUILD BACK BETTER ACT IS THAT IT ALSO INCLUDES BILLIONS FOR DROUGHT AND CLIMATE RESILIENCE PROJECTS ESPECIALLY FOCUSED ON WATER.

IN PARTICULAR I THINK THIS IS IMPORTANT FOR NEW MEXICO WITH SO MANY OF OUR RURAL AND TRIBAL COMMUNITIES IS WE HUNDREDS OF COMMUNITIES IN NEW MEXICO THAT REALLY NEED INVESTMENTS IN DRINKING AND WASTEWATER SYSTEMS.

SO THE BILL BUILD BACK BETTER ACT INCLUDES A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF FUNDING ALSO FOR THOSE REALLY IMPORTANT LOCAL COMMUNITY WATER SYSTEMS AND RESILIENCE PROJECTS AS WELL.

>> Laura: IN TALKING ABOUT INVESTMENT IN INFRASTRUCTURE IN NEW MEXICO OUR AUDIENCE IS FAMILIAR WITH CLIMATE CHANGE AND WATER CHALLENGES.

I THINK SOMETIMES WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WAS BUILT IN THE EARLY TO MID 20TH CENTURY THAT ARE MEETING MOST OF OUR CHALLENGES BUT NOT MEETING CHALLENGES INTO THE FUTURE.

WHAT KIND OF INVESTMENTS AND CHANGES IN INFRASTRUCTURE MIGHT WE BE THINKING ABOUT AND LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT KIND OF MEET THE CHALLENGES THAT ARE COMING?

>> Stansbury: YEAH.

SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, AS WE SAY HERE IN NEW MEXICO, WATER IS LIFE.

WE KNOW THAT WATER IS AT THE HEART OF OUR COMMUNITIES AND WE HAVE ANCIENT WATER SYSTEMS ACROSS OUR STATE.

INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES HAVE BUILT AMAZING WATER INFRASTRUCTURE AND PRACTICES THAT CONTINUE TODAY.

OUR ACEQUIAS ARE STILL A VITAL PART OF THE CULTURE AND WAY OF MANAGING WATER IN THE STATE.

AMONG OUR TRADITIONAL SYSTEMS AND HISTORIC SYSTEMS WE ARE STARTING TO SEE A LOT OF CHANGES BECAUSE OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

WE ARE SEEING A REDUCTION IN SNOWPACK, MORE INTENSE STORMS, AND CHANGES IN HOW WATER IS COMING.

IN ORDER TO ADAPT TO THOSE CHANGES, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO CHANGE THE WAY WE MANAGE WATER AS WELL AS UPGRADE OUR INFRASTRUCTURE SO THAT IT CAN RESPOND TO MORE EXTREME EVENTS AND CHANGES IN OUR SNOWPACK.

SO THAT IS ONE ASPECT OF IT.

SECONDLY, AND I THINK YOU TOUCHED ON THIS A LITTLE BIT WITH YOUR COMMENTS, IS A LOT OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WAS BUILT IN THE 19TH AND 20TH CENTURY IS COMING TO THE END OF ITS LIFE.

I LIKE TO THINK ABOUT THIS IN TERMS OF SIMILAR TO OUR ELECTRIC GRID.

WE BUILT IT AT A CERTAIN TIME.

IT SERVED ITS PURPOSE AND NOW IT IS KIND OF COMING TO THE END OF ITS LIFE AND AS WE ARE THINKING ABOUT THE IMPACTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE AND DROUGHT AND OUR NEW NEEDS AROUND WATER AND WATER SECURITY, WE ARE GOING TO REALLY NEED INFRASTRUCTURE THAT CAN BE MANAGED IN REALTIME, THAT USES THE BEST SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY AND DATA TO DO SO AND THAT IS INTEGRATED WITH OUR TRADITIONAL SYSTEMS AND RESTORES OUR ECOSYSTEMS AND PROTECTED RIVERS WHICH ARE SO VITAL TO THE HEALTH AND WELL BEING OF OUR COMMUNITIES AS WELL.

SO, AS WE ARE KIND OF THINKING ABOUT REBOOTING ON INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE 21ST CENTURY, WE HAVE TO REALLY RETHINK THE WAY THAT WE ADDRESS THESE PROBLEMS ON THE GROUND AND THAT INCLUDES INVESTING IN OUR TRADITIONAL COMMUNITIES AND THE WAY IN WHICH THEY MANAGE WATER, INCREASING THE AMOUNT OF FUNDING THAT WE SPEND ON DATA AND SCIENCE AND REALTIME MANAGEMENT AND INVESTING IN MUCH MORE RESILIENT INFRASTRUCTURE THAT MIMICS THE ECOLOGICAL AND TRADITIONAL WAYS THAT WE MANAGE WATER FOR THE HEALTH OF OUR RIVERS AND OUR ECOSYSTEMS.

>> Laura: WHEN IT COMES TO CLIMATE CHANGE, I FEEL LIKE SO MANY PEOPLE IN NEW MEXICO, YOU KNOW, SCIENCE IS CLEAR, WE SEE THE IMPACT.

WE KNOW WHAT IS COMING.

BUT PEOPLE OFTEN FEEL KIND OF HELPLESS BECAUSE SO MUCH ACTION DEPENDS ON POLICY CHANGES THAT COME FROM CONGRESS OR EVEN THE STATE LEGISLATURE.

YOU WORKED ON CAPITOL HILL AND BE A STATE CONGRESS WOMAN, NOW A MEMBER OF THE FEDERAL DELEGATION, AND YOU HAVE BEEN SUCH AN EXPERT AND ADVOCATE ON WATER ISSUES, BUT I HAVE TO ASK, YOU KNOW, WHY DO YOU THINK THAT CLIMATE CHANGE AND WATER PLANNING SO OFTEN DON'T RISE TO THE TOP OF, YOU KNOW, ACTION AND ISSUES FOR ELECTED OFFICIALS?

>> Stansbury: YOU KNOW, I THINK IT ONE OF THE BIG QUESTIONS OF OUR TIME THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS SUCH A COMPLEX CHALLENGE AND, YOU KNOW, AS I TALK TO PEOPLE ACROSS OUR COMMUNITY I KNOW THAT CLIMATE CHANGES IS AT THE FOREFRONT OF SO MANY PEOPLE'S MINDS.

I GET ASKED ABOUT IT EVERYDAY.

HOW DO WE ADDRESS IT?

HOW DO WE DEAL WITH THE CRISIS IN FRONT OF US?

IS THERE STILL TIME?

ARE WE GOING TO BE ABLE TO ADDRESS THE CRISIS?

AND I THINK THAT WATER, IN PARTICULAR, IS SO INTEGRAL TO EVERY ASPECT OF OUR LIFE, OUR CULTURE, OUR IDENTITY, OUR SURVIVAL BUT THE CHALLENGES AROUND ADDRESSING OUR WATER NEEDS ARE SO COMPLEX AND SO INTERTWINED WITH LAW AND INFRASTRUCTURE THAT SOMETIMES THEY CAN FEEL ALMOST TOO COMPLICATED TO TRY TO UNPACK IT ALL.

PART OF WHY I SPEND MY ENTIRE CAREER WORKING ON WATER POLICY AND WATER INFRASTRUCTURE QUESTIONS IS BECAUSE WE REALLY NEED PEOPLE WHO CAN GET INTO THE SCIENCE AND THE POLICY AND UNDERSTAND HOW ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE INTERCONNECTED.

SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN I LOOK AT THE POLICY SPACE AND WHAT IS IN FRONT OF US IN TERMS OF ADDRESSING CLIMATE CHANGE, I THINK IT IS REALLY HELPFUL TO BREAK IT DOWN INTO SORT OF THREE ASPECTS.

WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THE CLIMATE CRISIS.

WE HAVE TO ADDRESS OUR CARBON FOOTPRINT.

WE KNOW THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE TO DO TO ADDRESS THE CLIMATE CRISIS ITSELF.

THAT MEANS REDUCING EMISSIONS AND DOING ALL THE THINGS WE CAN TO FIGHT IT AT A GLOBAL LEVEL AND AT A LOCAL LEVEL.

BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO ADDRESS THE RESILIENCE OF OUR COMMUNITIES BECAUSE CLIMATE CHANGE IS ALREADY HERE, AND, OF COURSE, AS YOU REPORTED WE ARE ALREADY SEEING SIGNATURES OF CLIMATE CHANGES ESPECIALLY IN OUR WATER SYSTEMS IN NEW MEXICO.

WE ARE ALREADY SEEING REDUCED SNOWPACK AND IMPACTS TO OUR RIVERS, AND SO WE CAN'T IGNORE THE REALITY THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS ALREADY IMPACTING OUR COMMUNITIES.

SO WE HAVE TO FOCUS ATTENTION ALSO ON HELPING OUR COMMUNITIES GET THROUGH THE CHANGES ALREADY HERE.

AND THE THIRD ASPECT OF ADDRESSING CLIMATE CHANGE, WHICH WE, I THINK, IN MANY WAYS HAVE NOT REALLY BEGUN TO TACKLE IN A CONCERTED WAY IS THE ECONOMIC CHALLENGE AROUND CLIMATE CHANGE.

AND HERE IN NEW MEXICO AS A STATE THAT HAS LONG BEEN DEPENDENT ON EXTRACTIVE INDUSTRIES, REALLY THINKING ABOUT HOW DO WE CHART A COURSE TOWARDS A MORE DIVERSIFIED ECONOMY LOOKING FORWARD THAT IS MORE SUSTAINABLE FOR COMMUNITIES.

I THINK SOMETIMES THE CHARGE OF ADDRESSING CLIMATE CHANGE AND ITS CONNECTIONS TO OUR COMMUNITIES IS SO HUGE, IT IS HARD TO WRAP YOUR MIND AROUND IT BUT WHEN YOU BREAK IT DOWN INTO THESE DIFFERENT PIECES IT MAKES IT A LITTLE BIT MORE MANAGEABLE AND WE JUST HAVE TO KEEP DOING THE WORK ON ALL THREE FRONTS.

>> Laura: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR WORK ON ALL THREE FRONTS AND IT WAS GREAT TALKING WITH YOU.

>> Stansbury: THANKS SO MUCH.

WONDERFUL TO BE WITH YOU HERE TODAY.

>> Gene: FUNDING INCREASES FOR POLICE DEPARTMENTS ACROSS THE STATE ARE ON TRACK TO PASS THE STATE LEGISLATURE.

THE GOAL IS TO HIRE AND RETAIN MORE POLICE OFFICERS BUT THE UNION LEADER FOR ANOTHER GROUP OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE WORKERS IS CALLING FOR ATTENTION TOO.

THAT WOULD BE THE BERNALILLO COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PASSING AN EMERGENCY RESOLUTION LATE LAST MONTH TO ADDRESS THE STAFFING SHORTAGES AT THE METROPOLITAN DETENTION CENTER.

IN THE WEEK SINCE, KOB REPORTS 12 MORE CORRECTIONS OFFICERS AT MDC HAVE QUIT.

COULD THIS REACH A POINT, ANDY, WHERE THE STATE MIGHT NEED TO STEP IN.

SOME OF THE QUOTES COMING OUT OF THE HEADS OF MDC ARE KIND OF SCARY RIGHT NOW.

>> Andy: YEAH, I DON'T KNOW.

SOME OF THESE STORIES, I GUESS, MENTIONED THE NATIONAL GUARD.

WE HAVE ALREADY SEEN THAT WITH SUBSTITUTE TEACHERS.

I GUESS THAT IS KIND OF THE OBVIOUS POSSIBILITY WHERE THE STATE COULD STEP IN BUT YOU DO GET THIS JURISDICTIONAL ISSUE, THIS PROBLEM OF WHO STEPS IN TO FIX IT BECAUSE IT ALREADY THE BERNALILLO COUNTY'S JOB TO SORT OF ADDRESS THIS.

>> Gene: INEZ, YOU'RE UP IN SANTA FE, BUT JAILS ARE JAILS, AS THEY SAY.

WE PACK A LOT OF PEOPLE IN AND WE EXPECT THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM TO DEAL WITH THIS BUT THIS SEEMS TO BE A REAL CHOKE POINT, DOESN'T IT?

>> Inez: IT DOES.

FOR ONE THING WE CRIMINALIZED SO MANY THINGS IT IS NOT THAT HARD TO GET ARRESTED.

LET'S SAY YOU'RE A HOMELESS PERSON WITH A MENTAL ILLNESS AND YOU DO SOMETHING THAT LANDS YOU IN JAIL, THEN YOU HAVE TO BE GUARDED AND ALL OF THE THINGS THAT GO WITH BEING IN JAIL.

OUR TRIAL SYSTEM IS OVERLOADED.

THERE IS NOT ENOUGH PUBLIC DEFENDERS.

A RECENT REPORT -- I THINK IT WAS THE AMERICAN BAR ASSOCIATION, FOUND THAT WE ARE 30% UNDERSTAFFED FOR THE CURRENT CASE LOAD, NOT JUST WHATEVER NEW MIGHT COME WITH ALL THESE NEW POLICE OFFICERS THAT I ASSUME ARE GOING TO BE ARRESTING PEOPLE.

SO, IF YOU DON'T HAVE PUBLIC DEFENSORS AND ENOUGH PROSECUTORS AND YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH COURT TIME, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO STAY IN PRETRIAL DETENTION AND THEY STAY IN COUNTY JAILS.

YOU DON'T GO TO PRISON FOR PRETRIAL DETENTION.

THE SYSTEM HAS TO BE FIXED.

THE GOVERNOR IS UPSET BECAUSE HER CRIME BILLS AREN'T BEING PASSED AND IT MIGHT BE A TIME FOR SELF REFLECTION TO SAY, MAYBE I AM INTRODUCING THE WRONG SORTS OF LEGISLATION.

AND WHAT WOULD REALLY FIX THE CRIME SYSTEM MIGHT BE ENSURING SWIFT AND SURE PUNISHMENT, WHICH MEANS INVESTING IN THE SYSTEM THAT DOES THOSE THINGS.

>> Gene: IS THIS A SYMPTOM HOW WE GENERALLY APPROACH CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM?

THERE IS ALWAYS TALK ABOUT POLICING AND ENFORCEMENT.

THE SECOND AND THIRD HALF OF THE EQUATION, DETENTION AND PROSECUTION AND THE COURT SYSTEM DOESN'T USUALLY GET AS MUCH ATTENTION.

IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?

IS THERE A CHANGE IN MINDSET THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN?

>> Dan: IT GETS ATTENTION.

IT IS NOT ATTENTION THAT PEOPLE WANT TO TALK ABOUT, RIGHT?

IT IS HARD TO GO BACK TO CONSTITUENTS AND SAY, I IMPROVED THE PRISON SYSTEM AND MADE IT BETTER.

MOST PEOPLE THINK EVERYONE SHOULD BE LOCKED UP, THE KEY THROWN AWAY AND IT SHOULD BE HARD TIME.

I THINK THERE IS SOME EASIER FIXES HERE, RIGHT?

I MEAN, WE ARE HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS WHERE, LOOK, WE HAVE BOTH ENDS OF THE EXTREME HERE, RIGHT?

EVERYBODY AGREES THAT SOME GUY GETS PULLED OVER, NONVIOLENT OFFENDER, YOU KNOW, THIS GUY SHOULDN'T BE THROWN IN JAIL WAITING EIGHT MONTHS TO GO TO PRISON.

THE FLIP SIDE IS NO ONE IS ADVOCATING THAT A GUY WHO IS THIRD TIME BEFORE THE COURTS FOR RAPE AND MURDER SHOULD BE TURNED OUT IN 24 HOURS.

SO, WE HAVE GOT -- WE HAVE TO STOP LOOKING AT THIS LIKE A SINGLE PIECE OF LEGISLATION IS GOING TO SOLVE IT.

LOOK, I WILL TELL YOU I THINK THERE IS SOME PROBLEMS WHERE WE HAVE LOST THE GIFT OF DISCERNMENT OUT THERE WITH THESE JUDGES AND WITH WHAT IS GOING ON, RIGHT?

YOU HEAR ABOUT THESE PEOPLE THAT ARE COMMITTING VIOLENT CRIMES, MULTIPLE VIOLENT CRIMES, AND THEY ARE BACK OUT ON THE STREETS IN A FEW MINUTES.

SOMEBODY SOMEWHERE HAS TO SAY, HOLD ON A SECOND, RIGHT?

WE HEAR THE STORY ABOUT THE GUY THAT GETS PULLED OVER, A LITTLE BIT OF WEED OR A LITTLE BIT OF COKE OR DID SOMETHING STUPID, AND THAT GUY DISAPPEARED LIKE THE GUY DOWN IN LAS CRUCES THAT GOT THE DUI AND WOUND UP LIKE TWO-AND-A-HALF YEARS IN SOLITARY CONFINEMENT AND GOT 40 SOMETHING MILLION DOLLARS FROM LAS CRUCES FOR THAT.

HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?

RIGHT?

HOW DOES SOME GUY WITH A DUI WIND UP IN JAIL FOR TWO-AND-A-HALF YEARS BEFORE ANYBODY DOES ANYTHING, BUT THE GUY ON HIS THIRD RAPE IS OUT THE DOOR IN 48 SECONDS.

>> Gene: DAN, LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING THAT INEZ THREW OUT ON THE TABLE WHICH I FIND INTERESTING.

I'M REFERRING TO THIS FABULOUS PIECE BY DANIEL CHACON IN THE SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN, HEADLINE, GOV, LEGISLATURE'S INABILITY TO TACKLE CRIME DEFIES EXPLANATION.

DANIEL, LET ME READ YOU A QUOTE FROM THE GOVERNOR.

QUOTE, I AM DEEPLY TROUBLED AND FRUSTRATED BY THE LEGISLATURE'S RELUCTANCE TO TAKE MEANINGFUL ACTION AND NEW MEXICANS SHOULD BE OUTRAGED.

MEANING THESE CRIME BILLS ARE GOING NOWHERE.

IS THIS A PREEMPTIVE STRIKE HERE?

WHY IS SHE OUT BEFORE THE SESSION IS OVER?

>> Dan: IT HAS HAPPENED FOR YEARS.

LISTEN, YOU HAVE TO REALIZE IN THE LEGISLATURE THERE IS A LARGE MAKEUP OF ATTORNEYS, BOTH CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEYS, FORMER PROSECUTORS.

THERE IS FOLKS THAT HAVE BEEN IN OTHER POSITIONS LIKE MAYORS AND COUNTY COMMISSIONERS.

SO YOU HAVE A REAL BATTLE OF FOLKS THAT ARE LIKE, LISTEN, WE GOT TO MAKE THESE LAWS -- THIS IS MY OPINION, OKAY?

I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF FOLKS IN THE LEGISLATURE THAT WANT TO MAKE SOME OF THESE LAWS AMBIGUOUS SO THERE IS A REASON TO GET A LAWYER AND A REASON TO GO FIGHT IT AND A REASON WHY YOU DON'T GET CONVICTED OF DUI 15 TIMES.

THERE IS OTHER PEOPLE THAT ARE, LIKE, WAIT A MINUTE, LET'S MAKE THESE THINGS PRETTY CLEAR.

THE GOVERNOR IS REALIZING WE ARE IN A SLIPPERY SLOPE IN NEW MEXICO ABOUT CRIME.

IT IS ONE OF THE FEW ISSUES THAT IS BIPARTISAN RIGHT NOW IN THIS STATE.

YOU GO OUT THERE AND YOU SEE DEMOCRATS, REPUBLICANS, CONSERVATIVES, LIBERALS, URBAN AND RURAL THAT ARE SAYING, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH WITH THE VIOLENT CRIME.

WHEN WE ARE LEADING THE NATION NOT PER CAPITA IN CAR THEFT.

WHEN YOU HAVE GOT MURDER THE WAY IT IS.

YOU GOT THESE MASSIVE PROBLEMS WITH CRIME, THAT ARE NOT JUST PEOPLE BREAKING INTO A HOUSE ANYMORE.

WE HAD A BIG HULLABALOO WHEN RJ BERRY WAS RUNNING FOR MAYOR ABOUT PROPERTY CRIMES.

AND NOW IT IS ESCALATED TO SERIOUS AND VIOLENT CRIME.

PEOPLE RALLY BEHIND THAT AND THE SAD PART IS AT THE END OF THE DAY WHEN YOU HAVE CRIME LIKE IT IS RIGHT NOW, PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO SEE, CONSTITUENTS DON'T WANT TO SEE A THOUGHTFUL, METHODICAL PROCESS.

>>Gene: WE ARE GOING TO MOVE ON FROM THAT.

I HEAR YOUR POINT, THOUGH.

ANDY, STILL ON THE IDEA THAT THE GOVERNOR IS OUT THERE, NEXT THURSDAY IS WHEN THIS THING ENDS.

SHE IS ALREADY OUT THERE PREPARING THE PUBLIC THAT WHAT SHE PROPOSED WE SHOULD ALL EXPECT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN BUT THIS IS AN ELECTION YEAR AND AN UPCOMING ELECTION CYCLE.

IS IT AS BIG OF A MESS AS I AM FEELING OR CAN SHE JUST GET PAST THIS?

>> Andy: THE LATEST UPDATE ON THIS PRETRIAL DETENTION BILL IS SORT OF TAKING OUT WHAT THEY ARE CALLING THE REBUTTABLE PRESUMPTION AND SAYING, WE ARE GOING TO JUST SORT OF BE TOUGHER ON ANKLE MONITORS OR ELECTRONIC MONITORING AND SAY THEY ARE PUSHING TO HAVE THAT REALTIME DATA TO SEE WHERE PEOPLE ARE AT ALL TIMES.

SO, SOMETHING COULD GET THROUGH AND IT IS DEFINITELY NOT GOING TO BE THIS SORT OF PUT PEOPLE IN JAIL IF WE THINK THAT THE CRIME THEY HAVE DONE IS HEINOUS ENOUGH.

JUST REMINDER THAT IS WHAT IT IS.

THEY ARE SAYING, IF WE THINK THAT WE HAVE ENOUGH EVIDENCE, AND I AM NOT EVEN SURE HOW THE EVIDENCE PLAYS INTO IT, IF THEY THINK THERE IS A CRIME THAT WAS THAT BAD COMMITTED, WE CAN PUT THEM IN JAIL.

I THINK WHAT THE COMPROMISE IS, IF YOU CAN CALL IT A COMPROMISE, THEY ARE JUST GOING TO BE TOUGHER ON THIS ELECTRONIC MONITORING, EXCUSE ME.

IT COULD END UP BEING SORT OF A WIN FOR HER IN THIS ELECTION IN THAT SHE DID HER BEST, SHE GOT SOMETHING THROUGH.

>> Gene: ALBUQUERQUE MAYOR TIM KELLER TOLD KOB THIS WEEK HE SUPPORTS A SPECIAL SESSION DEALING SOLELY WITH CRIME.

IS THAT WHAT WE ARE HEADED TO HERE?

>> Andy: VERY LIKELY A POSSIBILITY.

I DON'T WANT TO PUT ANY MOTIVES BEHIND ANYTHING BUT IT IS AN ELECTION SEASON, SHE IS UP FOR ELECTION.

THE MAYOR TIM KELLER IS NOT.

BUT, IT DOES SORT OF SEND A MESSAGE THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO BE SERIOUS ABOUT SOMETHING TO THE FOLKS, LIKE DAN SAID, THAT WANT SOME IMMEDIATE ACTION AND NOT TRYING TO GET SOME OF THESE ROOT PROBLEMS FOR WHY CRIME IS HAPPENING.

>> Dan: YOU GUYS HAVE TO REMEMBER WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT A SPECIAL SESSION, I AM NOT SURE THE GOVERNOR WOULD BE IN A FAVOR OF A SPECIAL SESSION BECAUSE ONCE THE SPECIAL SESSION STARTS SHE'S THE ONLY ONE LIMITED FROM RAISING MONEY.

ALL HER OPPONENTS ARE OUR THERE RAISING MONEY, CAMPAIGNING AND SO WHEN PEOPLE SAY, OH, IT IS A POLITICAL YEAR AND THE GOVERNOR IS GOING TO WANT -- PEOPLE RUNNING FOR OFFICE ARE NOT IN FAVOR OF THE SPECIAL SESSIONS.

I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SEEING, THOUGH, IS CRIME IS AN ISSUE NOT ONLY HERE BUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

I THINK THE GOVERNOR HAS TO GET OUT IN FRONT OF THIS AND SAY, LISTEN, I AM TRYING TO BE TOUGH ON CRIME, COMING INTO THE ELECTION YEAR.

THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE IS GOING TO GO AFTER THIS GOVERNOR ON CRIME AND YOU HAVE GOT TO INOCULATE YOURSELF AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE.

IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE OUTCOME.

YOU HAVE TO SHOW A PRETTY GOOD FIGHT, SHOW THE INTENT TO WANT TO DO SOMETHING AND SAY, LISTEN, REELECT ME AND I'LL KEEP FIGHTING.

>> Gene: THANK YOU ALL FOR THE DISCUSSION.

WE'LL BE BACK IN LESS THAN A MINUTE WITH AN UPDATE ON PROPOSED VOTING REFORMS AND WITH SO MUCH LEFT TO BE DONE IN THE FINAL WEEK, I'LL ASK THE QUESTION, WILL WE NEED ANOTHER SPECIAL SESSION TO HANDLE IT?

>> Gutzler: AND THERE IS EVEN LESS TRUST IN OUR ABILITY TO TRANSITION TOWARDS A FUTURE ASSOCIATED -- WHERE OUR ENERGY IS DRIVEN BY RENEWABLES AWAY FROM FOSSIL FUELS.

I THINK THERE IS VERY LITTLE TRUST IN HOW THAT IS GOING TO WORK, WHO IS GOING TO BE AN ECONOMIC LOSER AND WHETHER THAT WILL ALL WORK.

>> Gene: ANOTHER PIECE OF THE GOVERNOR'S AGENDA FACES A DIFFICULT PATH FORWARD.

THE SENATE RULES COMMITTEE PASSED A BILL AIMED TO EXPAND VOTING ACCESS.

IT'S HEADED TO THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE AFTER CONCERNS FROM SOME SENATORS, INCLUDING DEMOCRATIC CHAIR, DANIEL IVEY SOTO.

LET'S WELCOME TO THE LINE BACK, I WANT TO START WITH THE SAME QUESTION WE ASKED ABOUT HYDROGEN EARLIER.

WAS THIS TOO MUCH AT ONCE?

ANDY, WAS DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP A BIT TO OPTIMISTIC ABOUT HOW THIS WOULD ALL PLAY OUT.

>> Andy: YOU COULD SAY THAT ABOUT ALL THE EXTRA ISSUES ADDED TO THE SPECIAL SESSION.

ANY YEAR YOU HAVE A LONG LIST OF STUFF IN ADDITION TO BUDGET STUFF, YOU COULD ARGUE, I THINK, THAT THERE IS TOO BIG OF A BITE TO GET AT.

BUT THIS HAS ALSO BEEN SOMETHING THAT THE SECRETARY OF STATE AND THE GOVERNOR HAVE SORT OF ADVOCATED FOR FOR A WHILE, SORT OF, EXPANDING SOME OF THESE VOTER ISSUES.

>> Gene: I KNOW YOU MEANT REGULAR SESSION WHEN YOU SAID SPECIAL, THAT IS OKAY.

THAT IS ALL RIGHT.

DANIEL FOLEY, ONE PIECE IN THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL THAT WAS STRIPPED OUT WAS A MEASURE TO ALLOW 16 YEAR OLDS TO VOTE IN LOCAL ELECTIONS.

THE MINIMUM AGE IN THE BILL HAS BEEN CHANGED TO 17.

IF THAT PERSON TURNS 18 BY THE NEXT GENERAL ELECTION.

I DON'T WANT TO SPEND TOO MUCH TIME ON THIS BECAUSE IT IS PAST HISTORY.

SMART IDEA TO GET RID OF THE 16?

>> Dan: I MEAN, I AM ALWAYS TORN BY IT, RIGHT.

AT 18, YOU'RE ALLOWED TO GO TO WAR, CARRY A GUN AND DEFEND THE COUNTRY BUT YOU CAN'T BUY A BEER.

AT SOME POINT WE HAVE TO REALIZE THAT GETTING PEOPLE INVOLVED IS NOT NECESSARILY A BAD THING.

>> Gene: INTERESTING.

INEZ, I LOVE THIS PROPOSED CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT WOULD ALLOW INDEPENDENT VOTERS TO PARTICIPATE IN PRIMARY ELECTIONS.

HELLO.

IF THIS WAS WHAT SECRETARY MAGGIE TOULOUSE OLIVER TOLD US TWO WEEKS AGO, HER GOAL IS TO INCREASE VOTING ACCESS, PERIOD.

IS IT THAT SIMPLE IN THIS CASE?

>> Inez: NOT NECESSARILY THAT SIMPLE, BUT IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE IF YOU'RE A DECLINE TO STATE AND YOU CAN GO VOTE FOR YOUR LOCAL SHERIFF OR LOCAL COUNTY COMMISSIONER.

ONE WAY TO GET AROUND ALL OF THIS IS TO DUMP PRIMARIES ALTOGETHER AND GO TO A BLANKET PRIMARY IN NOVEMBER WITH RANK CHOICE VOTING AND YOU'RE DONE.

EVERYONE VOTES AT ONCE.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR TWO ELECTIONS.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO CAMPAIGN TWICE AND YOU GET IT ALL DONE ON ONE DAY WITH WHATEVER EARLY VOTING YOU DECIDE.

>> Gene: THAT IS AN INTERESTING POINT.

I WONDER WHY THAT ISN'T PART OF THE PACKAGE.

THAT IS INTERESTING.

HEY, DAN, ANOTHER BILL THAT EXPANDS PROTECTIONS, YOU TALKED ABOUT THIS IN THE SHOW BEFORE, BUT A BILL EXPANDS PROTECTIONS FOR STATE ELECTION WORKERS HAS ALREADY PASSED THE ENTIRE SENATE.

THE LEGISLATION COMES AFTER SOME OFFICIALS WERE TARGETED WITH THREATS OF VIOLENCE AFTER THE 2020 PRESIDENTIAL.

ARE THESE BILLS NECESSARY?

>> Dan: I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL, IN MY OPINION, OF PASSING LEGISLATION THAT REALLY IS TRYING TO AFFECT A SMALL MINORITY OF SITUATIONS THAT HAPPEN OUT THERE.

RIGHT?

I MEAN, THREATENING A WORKER LIKE THAT, I MEAN, THERE IS AMPLE LAWS OUT THERE RIGHT NOW TO GO AFTER THESE INDIVIDUALS, PUNISH THESE INDIVIDUALS, HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE AND WE DON'T USE THEM.

WHAT IS ANOTHER LAW GOING TO DO?

TO ME THERE IS REASONS TO GO OUT THERE.

IF I THREATEN TO BEAT YOU UP RIGHT NOW, THERE IS LAWS THAT PREVENT ME FROM DOING THAT.

THERE IS LAWS THAT ALLOW THE POLICE TO COME ON.

NOW BY SAYING WE ARE GOING TO MAKE IT A BIGGER CRIME IF DAN THREATENS GENE, IT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING TO GET THE POLICE TO COME AFTER US ANY QUICKER.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US UTILIZE THE LAWS WE HAVE ON THE BOOKS BEFORE WE START ADDING MORE LAWS AND FIGURING OUT WAYS TO USE THEM.

>> Gene: THE PROPOSAL EXPANDS FELONY CRIMES OF INTIMIDATION TO INCLUDE ACTS AGAINST EMPLOYEES, AGENTS OF THE SECRETARY OF STATE, COUNTY CLERKS, MUNICIPAL CLERKS, INTERESTING.

IT IS GOING TO THE HOUSE FOR CONSIDERATION BUT ON DAN'S POINT, THOSE FOLKS DO GET THREATENED.

I MEAN, THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO SAY IT.

IT IS NOT JUST SECRETARIES OF THESE PLACES.

>> Andy: THEY DO AND ACTUALLY I HAVE SEEN THIS IN MANY SESSIONS WHERE IT IS ALWAYS A DIFFERENT SORT OF GROUP OF PEOPLE THEY WANT TO TRY TO PROTECT THROUGH LAWS.

AND TO DAN'S POINT, I THINK, SOME PUBLIC DEFENDERS AND CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEYS WOULD ACTUALLY AGREE THAT WE DON'T NECESSARILY NEED MORE LAWS.

THERE ARE LAWS IN PLACE THAT MAKE THAT A CRIME AND TO SORT OF SPECIALIZE IT, THEY WOULD ARGUE THAT IT SORT OF MUDDIES THE LEGAL WATERS OF WHEN YOU START TO EXPAND HATE CRIMES OR MAKE IT A TOUGHER PENALTY, HARSHER PENALTY FOR ASSAULTING A POLICE OFFICER, THOSE THINGS COME UP ALL THE TIME.

AND NOT TO SAY THESE PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY GIVEN SORT OF THE WORLD THAT WE LIVE IN NOW, RIGHT, IN THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS, THINGS ARE REALLY TENSE, SO IT IS PROBABLY NOT SURPRISING THEY ARE BRINGING THIS UP, BUT I DO THINK A LOT OF SORT OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE FOLKS ARE SAYING, WAIT A MINUTE, TO DAN'S POINT, MAYBE WE DON'T NEED TO ADD MORE LAWS TO THE BOOKS.

>> Gene: LET'S START WITH, INEZ, BUT ALL TAKE A CUT AT THIS AND THINK AHEAD TO NEXT THURSDAY WHEN THIS ALL ENDS INEVITABLY.

WHAT DO YOU PREDICT IS GOING TO BE ON THE TABLE STILL THAT NEEDS TO BE PASSED?

WHAT DO YOU THINK COULD PASS?

WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT POTENTIAL SPECIAL SESSION FOR CRIME?

KIND OF THINKING OUT THERE, WHAT DO YOU PREDICT FOR NEXT THURSDAY WHEN THIS ALL ENDS.

>> Inez: I BELIEVE THEY WILL PASS A BUDGET.

SO, YOU KNOW, THAT IS A BOLD PREDICTION HERE.

I THINK THAT THE PAY DAY LENDING LOWERING INTEREST RATES IS GOING TO PASS IN SOME FORM AND I THINK THAT SOMETHING HYDROGENY WILL AT LEAST GET TO THE END IF NOT ALL THE WAY.

I HAVE ACTUALLY HEARD THAT THE GOVERNOR IS CONSIDERING A SPECIAL SESSION ON HYDROGEN SHE IS SO FOCUSED ON THAT.

I DON'T KNOW IF MY SOURCE WAS CORRECT BUT THAT IS WHAT I WAS TOLD.

I DO THINK THAT SOMETHING ON VOTING RIGHTS WILL PASS BECAUSE WITH THE NATIONAL PUSHBACK AND THE INABILITY OF CONGRESS TO PROTECT VOTING RIGHTS, I THINK STATES HAVE TO SHOW THAT THEY CAN AT LEAST CARRY SOME OF THE WEIGHT.

SO, I THINK VOTING RIGHTS IN SOME FORM WILL GET ALL THE WAY.

AND THE GOVERNOR SAID IN ONE OF HER INTERVIEWS I JUST READ THAT SHE THINKS THE SOCIAL SECURITY TAX CUT IN SOME FORM AND GROSS RECEIPTS TAX CUTS STILL HAVE A CHANCE.

>> Gene: INTERESTING POINTS.

WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THE TAX STUFF, SHE IS TOUTING AS A POSSIBILITY.

ANDY, YOUR THOUGHTS AGAIN, HARD TO PREDICT, THESE THINGS ARE DIFFICULT, BUT YOUR SENSE OF WHERE THINGS MIGHT END UP BY NEXT THURSDAY AND BEYOND.

>> Andy: I WOULD AGREE WITH INEZ.

THE BUDGET IS GOING TO COME OUT AND THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE THAT FIGURED OUT.

TAXES POSSIBLY.

I ALSO THINK THAT SORT OF FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM, WATERED DOWN VERSION OF TOUGH ON CRIME BILLS WILL COME OUT AS MUCH AS THEY CAN.

THE OTHER THING THAT SORT OF IS SLEPT ON A LOT AND IT IS IN MY PURVIEW IS, THERE IS THIS CANNABIS BILL THAT STILL NEEDS TO GO THROUGH QUITE A FEW STOPS, AT LEAST A FEW MORE, UNTIL THE END OF THE SESSION.

WHAT THAT DOES IS IT IMPACTS MICRO PRODUCERS, FOLKS THAT ARE GROWING MINIMUM OF 200 RIGHT NOW.

BUT THEY ARE TRYING TO CHANGE THE STATUTE TO 1000.

THAT IS GOING TO BE A BIG DEAL IF IT DOESN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE EVERYBODY ELSE IS GETTING TO GROW MORE WHILE THESE PEOPLE WOULD BE STUCK AT 200.

>> Gene: LET ME STAY ON THAT FOR A SECOND, ANDY.

FOLKS MIGHT BE UP ON THAT HEARING, WAIT, 200 TO 1000, WHAT IS GOING ON?

THIS IS REALLY TO STAY ON PAR, ISN'T IT, AND HAVE ENOUGH PRODUCT OUT THERE?

>> Andy: THEY SORT OF FOR MONTHS, THE STATE HAS SAID WE ARE NOT WORRIED ABOUT SHORTAGES.

AND MID JANUARY, THEY SAID, WELL, ACTUALLY WE ARE WORRIED ABOUT SHORTAGES FOR THE MEDICAL FOLKS, RIGHT, BECAUSE AS A STATE WE DON'T WANT FOLKS TO -- THE NONMEDICAL PEOPLE TO BUY OUT ALL THE SUPPLY FOR PEOPLE THAT RELY ON THIS FOR MEDICINE.

AND SO I THINK WITHOUT DOING THE MICRO PRODUCERS THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET THERE, BUT THEN THERE IS THIS EQUITY PROBLEM THAT COMES UP, RIGHT, YES THEY CAN GO 200, MEANWHILE OTHER PEOPLE CAN GROW MORE THAN I MEAN, THEY ARE SORT OF CRANKING THOSE NUMBERS UP FOR THE NON-MICRO PRODUCERS BUT THE MICRO PRODUCERS, THAT IS SORT OF BUILT INTO STATUTE.

YOU CAN'T JUST CHANGE THAT RULE SO IT IS SORT OF AN IMPORTANT THING FOR THESE FOLKS WHO WANTED TO GET THEIR FOOT IN THE DOOR, LIKE YOU SAID, 1000 SOUNDS LIKE A LOT AND IT COULD PRODUCE A LOT BUT THEN WHEN YOU COMPARE 200 TO 10,000 THAT IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

>> Gene: APPRECIATE THAT.

DANIEL, GOT A MINUTE LEFT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT NEXT THURSDAY WHEN THIS ALL ENDS?

>> Dan: AS USUAL THERE WILL BE SOMETHING THAT COMES OUT IN THE END.

EVERYBODY WILL BE HUGGING EACH OTHER AND CLAIMING A VICTORY AND PEOPLE WILL DO SOME RESEARCH, LIKE MY COLLEAGUES ON HERE TODAY, AND SAY, WAIT A MINUTE, IT REALLY WASN'T AS SUCCESSFUL AS YOU THINK.

I THINK THE VOTING RIGHTS STUFF IT DOES BELONG BEING HEARD IN THE STATE AND NOT AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, SO WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS THERE.

THERE WILL BE A BUDGET, THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT FOR EVERYBODY TO REALIZE IT DOESN'T TAKE A REPUBLICAN TO PASS ANYTHING IN NEW MEXICO.

SO AS LONG AS THE D'S GET ON THE SAME PAGE, THEY'LL GET WHAT THEY WANT.

>> Gene: THAT'S A GOOD POINT THERE.

THANKS AGAIN TO OUR LINE PANEL THIS WEEK.

BE SURE TO LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ANYTHING THAT WE COVERED ON OUR FACEBOOK, TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM PAGES.

HERE IS ENVIRONMENT CORRESPONDENT LAURA PASKUS.

>> Laura: I AM LAURA PASKUS AND ON OUR LAND THIS MONTH I CHECK IN WITH CLIMATE SCIENTIST DAVE GUTZLER, JUST RETIRED FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO.

WE TALK ABOUT THE CHANGES NEW MEXICO'S ALREADY EXPERIENCING AND WHY IT IS SO HARD FOR POLICYMAKERS AND POLITICIANS TO ACT ON CLIMATE.

THANKS, DR. GUTZLER, FOR JOINING ME TODAY.

>> Gutzler: QUITE A PLEASURE.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON.

>> Laura: YOU RECENTLY RETIRED FROM UNM.

WHERE YOU WORKED WITH GENERATIONS OF STUDENTS, HAVE DONE DECADES OF RESEARCH.

YOU HAVE SPOKEN TO THE LEGISLATURE, COMMUNITY GROUPS, WRITTEN REPORTS FOR EVERYONE FROM THE NEW MEXICO INTERSTATE STREAM COMMISSION TO THE UNITED NATIONS.

IF I HAD TO PICK ONE PERSON IN THE STATE WHO I THINK HAS DONE THE MOST TO EDUCATE US ALL ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE AND ITS IMPACT, THAT WOULD REALLY BE YOU.

SO THANKS FOR BEING HERE WITH ME.

>> Gutzler: THAT IS ALL VERY KIND FOR YOU TO SAY.

AND I APPRECIATE IT.

FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, I WAS TRYING TO DO MY JOB AND SO TAXPAYERS OF NEW MEXICO PAID ME FOR A QUARTER CENTURY TO HOLD THIS TITLE CALLED PROFESSOR AND TRY TO DO RESEARCH AND EDUCATE PEOPLE AND THAT IS WHAT WE TRY TO DO.

>> Laura: LET'S START OUR CONVERSATION TODAY WITH WHAT WE HAVE ALREADY SEEN HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG HERE, WE WERE THREE DEGREES WARMER THAN WE WERE IN THE 1970'S.

>> Gutzler: SOMETHING ALONG THAT.

ALL THESE ESTIMATES ARE FAIRLY ROUGH.

THEY ARE NOT PRECISE BUT THAT IS A PRETTY GOOD NUMBER.

SO, THAT IS WARMER ENOUGH FOR PEOPLE TO FEEL IT.

RIGHT?

PEOPLE THAT HAVE LIVED HERE FOR A FEW DECADES GENERALLY PERCEIVE THAT IT IS JUST NOT QUITE THE SAME AS IT USED TO BE.

AND WE CAN POINT OUT ALL KINDS OF ANECDOTES ABOUT THAT.

I HAVE A PHOTO OF MY KIDS WHO WERE SMALL WHEN WE MOVED HERE IN THE MID 90'S, BUNDLED UP LIKE CRAZY, LIKE THEY WERE WHEN WE LIVED IN BOSTON, TO GO TO THE BALLOON FIESTA.

AND YOU GENERALLY DON'T HAVE TO DRESS UP LIKE THAT ANYMORE MORE OFTEN THAN NOT AND SO JUST THINGS LIKE THAT HAVE REALLY CHANGED.

AND THERE ARE MANY MORE QUANTITATIVE WAYS TO SHOW THAT AS WELL.

>> Laura: WHAT ARE SOME OF THOSE IMPACTS THAT WE HAVE SEEN ON THE LANDSCAPE IN THE PAST FEW DECADES THAT ARE RELATED TO THIS WARMING?

>> Gutzler: WE SEE THINGS LIKE INCREASED INTENSITY OF WILDFIRES WHICH ALSO ILLUSTRATES AN IMPORTANT POINT ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE WHICH IS THAT OFTEN THE BIG IMPACTS ASSOCIATED WITH CLIMATE CHANGE AREN'T STAND-ALONE IMPACTS.

CLIMATE CHANGE ACTS AS AN ADDED STRESS ON SYSTEMS THAT ARE ALREADY STRESSED FOR OTHER REASONS, FOR EXAMPLE, BECAUSE OF FOREST MANAGEMENT PRACTICES.

WE HAVE SEEN BIG DROUGHTS, WHICH ARE OF NATURAL OCCURRENCE.

SINCE I STARTED WORKING HERE A HUGE BODY OF RESEARCH HAS SHOWN THAT HUGE DROUGHTS ARE ENDEMIC TO THE SOUTHWEST AND HAVE BEEN FOR 1000 YEARS BUT NOW WE THINK THAT THE IMPACTS OF THOSE DROUGHTS ARE MORE SEVERE BECAUSE THE TEMPERATURES HAVE WARMED UP.

SO DROUGHT THAT WE ARE IN, BY SOME MEASURES, IS NOT THE MOST SEVERE DROUGHT WE HAVE SEEN IN TERMS OF PRECIPITATION DEFICITS, YET WE ARE SETTING RECORDS FOR LOW STREAM FLOWS.

AND THAT IS BECAUSE OF THIS ADDED AFFECT OF WARMER TEMPERATURES.

>> Laura: CAN YOU LAY OUT FOR US SOME OF THE FUTURE SCENARIOS THAT YOU SEE IN THE DATA, WHETHER THAT IS THINGS LIKE RELATED TO STREAM FLOW AND THE GILA RIVER AND KIND OF WHAT SOME OF OUR LANDSCAPES MIGHT LOOK LIKE AND BE LIKE IN THE COMING DECADES DUE TO WARMING?

>> Gutzler: THE REALLY BIG IMPACTS THAT WE CAN PROJECT WITH CERTAINTY, NEAR CERTAINTY, ARE THAT THE TEMPERATURE OUGHT TO CONTINUE TO WARM UP BECAUSE WE THINK THAT THE PRINCIPLE DRIVER OF THIS TEND IN TEMPERATURE IS INCREASING GREEN HOUSE GASES AND THEY ARE STILL GOING UP.

AND IN THE SOUTHWEST, IN THE ARID CLIMATE AND IN THE LATITUDE ZONE THAT WE ARE IN, THAT IS -- WARMER TEMPERATURES ARE ASSOCIATED WITH A GENERAL TREND TOWARD ARIDITY, DRYER CONDITIONS.

THAT MEANS THAT OUR SNOW-FED RIVERS, LIKE THE GILA OR THE RIO GRANDE OR THE PECOS, WILL FEEL THE EFFECTS OF REDUCED SNOWPACK, WHICH IS ANOTHER NEAR CERTAIN PROJECTION ASSOCIATED WITH WARMER TEMPERATURES.

WE EXPECT ON AVERAGE LESS WATER FLOWING DOWN THE MAJOR RIVERS AND LANDSCAPES DRYING OUT WITH EFFECTS ON VEGETATION AND THAT CAN HAVE EFFECTS ON SOIL EROSION AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> Laura: IN THINKING ABOUT, SAY, ALBUQUERQUE WHERE WE ARE TODAY, WHAT KIND OF TIME FRAME ARE WE LOOKING AT FOR KIND OF MAYBE SOME BIG VEGETATIVE OR TEMPERATURE CHANGES?

>> Gutzler: PLENTY OF FOLKS WOULD SAY WE ARE THERE AND SO REALLY WHAT I AM DESCRIBING IS A CONTINUATION OF TRENDS THAT WE ALREADY SEE IN THE DATA.

WHAT MAKES THINGS A LITTLE BIT HARD IN TERMS OF BOTH PICKING OUT LONG-TERM TRENDS IN EITHER LANDSCAPES OR WATER METRICS, AND ALSO COMPLICATES PROJECTIONS INTO THE FUTURE, IS THAT THESE TRENDS ARE SUPER IMPOSED ON ENORMOUS NATURAL FLUCTUATIONS.

SO WE GO BACK AND FORTH AND BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN WET DECADES OR MULTI-DECADAL PERIODS AND DROUGHTS THAT CAN ALSO LAST FOR DECADES.

SO, IT IS HARD TO SAY THAT IN A PARTICULAR YEAR IN THE FUTURE THINGS WILL LOOK LIKE THIS, BECAUSE IN ADDITION TO THESE TRENDS TOWARD WARMER CONDITIONS AND MORE ARID CONDITIONS, WE HAVE WET AND DRY SPELLS THAT WE THINK OUGHT TO CONTINUE INTO THE FUTURE.

SO, PARSING THE DIFFERENT TIME SCALES OF VARIABILITY AND CHANGE ARE REALLY TRICKY.

AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE SO.

SO, I EXPECT THAT WE WILL STILL CONTINUE TO HAVE SOME WET YEARS, JUST DUE TO NATURAL VARIABILITY.

AND THE CHALLENGE FOR POLICYMAKERS IS TO NOT LET DOWN OUR GUARD AND ELIMINATE PLANNING TOWARD A DRYER AND WARMER FUTURE BECAUSE WE JUST GOT SOME RELIEF FROM NATURAL VARIABILITY THAT MIGHT BE SHORT LIVED.

>> Laura: I THINK IT IS FAIR TO SAY THAT CLIMATE SCIENTISTS HAVE KIND OF BEEN PUT THROUGH THE RINGER OVER THE PAST FEW DECADES FROM, YOU KNOW, OUTRIGHT CLIMATE DENIERS TO SORT OF PEOPLE WHO MAYBE THINK LIKE, YEP, CLIMATE CHANGE IS A PROBLEM BUT I AM JUST GOING TO IGNORE IT.

I AM JUST GOING TO GO ABOUT MY REGULAR DAY, IT IS TOO MUCH TO THINK ABOUT.

BUT I THINK IT HAS BEEN ENCOURAGING IN THE PAST FEW YEARS, THE NUMBER OF AMERICANS WHO UNDERSTAND HOW CLIMATE CHANGE IS HAPPENING, RISING, AS WELL AS THE NUMBER OF AMERICANS WHO SAY THEY TRUST CLIMATE SCIENTISTS.

I AM CURIOUS FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE IF YOU HAVE SEEN THAT INCREASED TRUST PLAY OUT IN TERMS OF WHAT WE ARE WILLING TO DO IN TERMS OF POLICY OR PLANNING OR MAKING CHANGES?

>> Gutzler: I HAVE PERCEIVED MUCH MORE CONFIDENCE IN THE ABILITY OF THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY TO LAY OUT WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING AND WHY AND WHAT IS LIKELY TO HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE.

I AM NOT CONVINCED THAT TRUST EXTENDS TO WHAT WE MIGHT DO ABOUT IT.

IN PART BECAUSE WE HAVE TO BE HONEST WHEN WE MAKE OUR PROJECTIONS THAT THEY EXTEND INTO THE FUTURE, FARTHER INTO THE FUTURE THAN MOST PEOPLE ARE COMFORTABLE AND CERTAINLY MOST POLICYMAKERS ARE COMFORTABLE DEALING WITH.

AND THAT THEY ARE FUZZY.

THERE IS EVEN LESS TRUST IN OUR ABILITY TO TRANSITION TOWARD A FUTURE ASSOCIATED WHERE OUR ENERGY IS DRIVEN BY RENEWABLES AWAY FROM FOSSIL FUELS.

I THINK THERE IS VERY LITTLE TRUST IN HOW THAT IS GOING TO WORK, WHO IS GOING TO BE AN ECONOMIC LOSER AND WHETHER THAT WILL ALL WORK.

I AM QUITE CONFIDENT IT WILL WORK EVENTUALLY BUT I AM NOT AT ALL CONFIDENT THAT WE CAN MEET ANY KIND OF SHORT TERM GOALS ABOUT REDUCING EMISSIONS OR MAKING A SEAMLESS TRANSITION AWAY FROM FOSSIL FUELS BECAUSE THAT IS HARD AND THE PATH TO GET FROM OUR CURRENT ENERGY ECONOMY TO ONE BASED ON RENEWABLES IS VERY FUZZY.

AND PEOPLE DON'T HAVE ANY SIGNIFICANT TRUST THAT WE CAN DO IT WITHOUT PAIN.

>> Laura: SO, I ALWAYS GET SURPRISED.

I AM LIKE, GOVERNOR JUST HAD HER STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS AND DIDN'T MENTION CLIMATE CHANGE OR WATER PLANNING, AND I AM ALWAYS SURPRISED OR ANOTHER LEGISLATIVE SESSION GOES PAST AND THE LEGISLATURE DOESN'T REALLY TAKE ON WATER PLANNING OR CLIMATE IN TERMS OF MITIGATION OR ADAPTATION BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE MAYBE YOU'RE NOT VERY SURPRISED.

>> Gutzler: I AM NOT SURPRISED BECAUSE IT IS HARD AND THERE AREN'T EASY SOLUTIONS FOR WATER PLANNING, FOR EXAMPLE.

I TOTALLY APPLAUD THE ISC'S EFFORT TO PUT TOGETHER A 50-YEAR WATER PLAN BUT PUTTING ONE TOGETHER AND HAVING IT IMPLEMENTED WITH REAL CHANGES ASSOCIATED WITH IT THAT REALLY ADDRESS THE RISKS THAT WE FACE IN TERMS OF OUR WATER FUTURE IS HARD.

IT IS POLITICALLY REALLY HARD AND SO IT DOESN'T SURPRISE ME TOO MUCH ANYMORE WHEN ELECTED OFFICIALS WHO NEED TO FACE VOTERS IN THE NEAR TERM ARE SOMEWHAT RELUCTANT TO PUT REAL CHANGE INTO PLACE IN TERMS OF POLICY THAT PEOPLE THINK IS ASSOCIATED WITH SOMETHING THAT MIGHT HAPPEN IN THE LONG-TERM.

>> Gene: BY THIS TIME NEXT FRIDAY NIGHT, WE MIGHT ALL BE LOOKING BACK IN WONDER OF WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN IN THIS YEAR'S LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

AS OF RIGHT NOW, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF BILLS HANGING IN THE BALANCE AND AS THE CLOCK WINDS DOWN TO NOON NEXT THURSDAY.

AS WE DISCUSSED ON THE SHOW, THERE ARE PLENTY OF GOOD REASONS TO ALREADY EXPECT A SPECIAL SESSION POSSIBILITY.

LIKELY FOCUSED ON CRIME, GIVEN THE LEVEL OF EXPECTATION GOING IN AND WHAT IS POTENTIALLY COMING OUT.

NOW, REMINDER, YOU MIGHT RECALL EARLY OCTOBER 2016, GOVERNOR SUSANA MARTINEZ CALLED FOR A SPECIAL SESSION JUST WEEKS BEFORE THE ELECTION TO FIX A BUDGET DEFICIT, BUT SHE ALSO ASKED LEGISLATORS TO CONSIDER THREE HIGH PROFILE CRIME BILLS.

NOT ONLY DID NONE OF THEM PASS, THE SPECIAL UNCEREMONIOUSLY ENDED AFTER THE BUDGET WAS PASSED WITH NONE OF THOSE CRIME BILLS EVEN BEING HEARD.

I MENTIONED THIS ONLY TO MAKE THE POINT THAT SINCE 2016, IT COULD BE ARGUED, THIS LEGISLATIVE BODY HAS NOT MOVED ANY LEGISLATION ON CRIME THE AVERAGE NEW MEXICAN ON THE STREET COULD POINT TO THAT HAS MADE THEM FEEL SAFER.

NOW WE HAVE DISCUSSED THE ROOT CAUSE OF CRIME HERE FOR A LONG TIME.

INCLUDING RIGHT HERE ON NEW MEXICO PBS.

THE RECENT INVESTMENTS ON THOSE FRONTS ARE LARGE AND NECESSARY, BUT SOMETHING IS STILL LACKING FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE WHEN IT COMES TO CRIME.

THREADING THE POLICY NEEDLE ON CRIME PREVENTION AND DETERRENCE, WHICH IS ABOUT HUMAN SERVICES, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL ENGINEERING, VERSUS CRIME CONTROL, WHICH IS PUNISHMENT, FORCE, ARREST AND PROSECUTION, IT IS THE TOUGHEST TASK THESE ELECTED FOLKS WILL FACE IN THEIR TIME UP THERE.

BUT, GIVEN THE RECENT TRACK RECORD COMING OUT OF THE ROUNDHOUSE, WE CLEARLY NEED NEW IDEAS.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND FOR STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK, IN FOCUS.