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>> Nash: This week on New Mexico in Focus, the ICE crackdown is surging across the country.

How the spike in arrest is hitting our state and how local communities are responding.

We saw what happened in Santa Fe last week.

We are deeply concerned, we don█t know what the patterns are yet, and that█s intentional, make no mistake.

Plus, New Mexicans prepared to have an earlier and louder voice in Democratic presidential politics.

New Mexico in Focus starts now.

>> Nash: Thanks for joining us this week, I'm Nash Jones.

So, New Mexico is in line to vote fourth in the 2028 Democratic Presidential primary election.

In about 20 minutes, I'm going to sit down with the State Party Chair, and a Democratic former State Senator to talk about why the change is happening and what it means for our state's influence in choosing the next Democratic nominee for President.

We're also going to update you on the contentious approval process for a proposed 1400 acre data center in Dona Ana County, dubbed Project Jupiter.

That's in about half an hour.

But we begin with that spike in Immigration and Customs Enforcement arrests and its impact locally.

This week, the Associated Press reported ICE arrested nearly 50,000 people nationwide in July.

That's the most in any month in President Trump's second term.

You may have heard about some of the ones in New Mexico, many in the Capital city.

In about five minutes, Executive Producer Jeff Proctor interviews immigration lawyer, Allegra Love, to find out what's been going on and why Santa Fe's Sanctuary City Status, isn't providing the protection that leaders had intended.

Meanwhile, in the state's largest city, local officials and immigrant advocates say they're hearing about more ICE arrests too.

In preparation for times like this, both the city of Albuquerque and Bernalillo County recently passed versions of a Safer Community Places ordinance, which bars ICE from voluntarily accessing private areas of businesses or public facilities without a judicial warrant.

City Councilor Stephanie Telles and County Commissioner Adrienne Barboa spoke at a news conference Wednesday at El Centro de Igualdad Y Derechos.

>>Telles: We are hearing directly from families and community members, about the sharp up tick enforcement and detention right here in Albuquerque.

We saw what happened in Santa Fe last week.

We are deeply concerned, we don█t know what the patterns are yet, and that█s intentional, make no mistake.

They don█t want us to know their patterns.

We passed the safe spaces ordinance not because it█s perfect.

But because it█s our duty to mitigate the risks that exist, that intend to harm our community.

>>Adriann: We know that piece of law can█t stop a deportation, can█t stop them from breaking our local law, our local rules, right.

That doesn█t stop them.

But what we know is we can fight like heck we have sent out the communications to all the business owners in Bernalillo county with instructions on how to protect their business, how to put markings, how to make sure we█re standing on the right side and standing up for each other.

Now Telles said the increased ICE activity in Albuquerque has not included large sweeps or raids.

Instead, she said, officials are hearing stories of cars with tinted windows following and intimidating people.

Volunteers read anonymized testimonials from family members of people who ICE has detained in Albuquerque over the last week.

>>Aylin: My husband was in his car and told the agents he would not get out because he wanted to speak with a lawyer.

They immediately broke the window and forcibly removed him from the vehicle.

This was a devastating experienc that is effecting both him and our children.

He takes care of his family, and it is not fair That our family has to suffer because of the situation or because of the way these actions are being carried out.

My father is 65 years old and was only in the country visiting He was detained and not given the opportunity to show his valid visa and permit.

Despite this ICE detained him and threw lies and pressure, and got him to sign for voluntary departure.

ICE is denying us our rights.

The kinds of stories we█ve heard in Albuquerque this week about ICE█s increasingly heavy hand are ringing up and down the I-25 corridor.

A recent series of immigration related arrests in Santa Fe have dominated the headlines and left the city on edge.

Allegra love, founded the Santa Fe Dreamers Project, now known as Contigo Immigrant Justice, in 2014, to provide young people who came to the US as children with legal services.

The elementary school teacher turned lawyer is now self-employed, and she's remained deeply involved with helping people navigate the legal and human consequences of federal immigration policy for more than a decade.

Tonight, Love joins Executive Producer Jeff Proctor, to shine a light on a troubling few weeks in the Capitol.

>> Jeff: Allegra, thanks so much for making the time and welcome to New Mexico in Focus.

>> Love: Thank you for having me.

>> Jeff: So folks, just heard a little bit about your background from Nash.

But if you don't mind, so that people have a sense of kind of your intimate knowledge of what we're here to talk about tonight.

Can you give them a little bit of a flavor of kind of your day to day?

What's the work that you're doing now?

>> Love: Sure.

So I've been practicing immigration law here in New Mexico for about 15 years, and the project I'm working on right now is through a local nonprofit here called Las Cumbres and the County of Santa Fe, is to provide free legal advice and representation to folks who are impacted by deportation and detention here in Santa Fe County.

>> Jeff: Gotcha.

When we were talking on the phone the other day, you hit me with some pretty staggering numbers for the number of folks who've been arrested by ICE.

Can you give me a sense of how many at least you're aware of?

>> Love: There were at least 14 arrests in Santa Fe County between Sunday, August 16th and Wednesday, August 19th.

That is an enormous number, even comparatively, when you think like per capita to other major cities, like based on what a small city is, that is a huge number of people to be arrested in such a small period of time.

>> Jeff: Allegra, do we think that is a complete picture of the number of folks arrested?

And why is that such a difficult number to get your arms around?

>> Love: When people ask me to estimate the number of ICE arrests in Santa Fe County, I usually say about 75%.

I think I hear from.

But I think we got-- we caught up with a lot of people last week because we were just everyone was out there, just like trying to stay focused and trying to get information.

But we really can't know.

There's no way of counting.

And it's not like ICE sends me a roster of people who they arrested on any given day.

>> Jeff: Let's put the number in context, whatever it might be, let's assume that it's a slight undercount.

You said in an interview with the Santa Fe New Mexican last week that this is a huge escalation by federal immigration authorities.

What makes you confident that this is a huge escalation?

>> Love: You know, the last several months I was seeing one, two, sometimes three arrests in any given month, but over, like I would say, from January to May and maybe June, that's what we were seeing.

And then we're starting to see more like two in a day, three in a day, and to have, I think 10 or 11 people.

Again, these are all estimates were arrested on Wednesday, August 19th in Santa Fe.

That's a huge jump to have that in one day versus 1 or 2 people a month a few months ago is a really big escalation.

>> Jeff: and I think that we're starting to see some of the national numbers catch up to this.

I was reading an AP story this morning, for example, that said that July marked the most people arrested by Ice nationally since Trump took office for the second time.

>> Love: That makes sense, that we would see our numbers creep up in Santa Fe, because that's what the national trend is.

>> Jeff: Yeah.

>> Love: People really want to know who are they targeting because they want to know if they're safe, how stressed out they should be, how anxious they should be.

And I really can't find much of a pattern.

But I will say that a lot of the people who were arrested last week were not the actual targets of the search.

They were, they were simply there were no warrants for them.

It appears from everything I can tell.

And so they simply were in the wrong place at the wrong time, which doesn't necessarily indicate a huge uptick in ice targeting people in our city.

They're just coming out and grabbing people.

>> Jeff: I don't want to be suggestive, Alegria, but does that feel like racial profiling to you?

>> Love: It's a confusing question in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

I will say this.

There's a lot of white people here and they█re sure not pulling us over.

The way that the people I interviewed last week explained it to happening to me, is that they are pulled over or they're encountered outside their apartment or their car and they say a name, Jeff.

And then I -- and they say, that's not me, and they're just being collaterally pulled into this arrest.

And I would say, that is not going to happen to someone who looks like me and someone who looks like you.

>> Jeff: Let's talk about one case in particular that's made an awful lot of headlines recently, the August 19th arrest of Edgar Chacon Miranda that was at the La Familia Alto Street clinic.

Allegra, that's a health center.

What have you been able to learn about that case in that arrest?

>> Love: So I do represent Mr.

Chacon Miranda.

He was encountered outside of La Familia while taking his 13 year old daughter to a medical appointment.

By his telling, ICE did not say his name.

They actually said the name of someone else when they came to his car and he said, that's not me, and they took him anyway.

That's what I call a warrantless arrest.

And warrantless arrests aren't purely illegal.

But to do that, ICE has to do a flight risk assessment on the person.

They're not assessing whether or not they're going to flee in their car.

What they have to assess is if they went back and got a proper warrant for that individual, would they be able to find that individual again?

And in Mr.

Chacon Miranda's case, he█s the father of three daughters, he lives in Santa Fe.

He works in Santa Fe.

It would have been possible to get a warrant, but they didn't.

They took him anyway.

And had they actually investigated Mr.

Chacon Miranda's case, they would have discovered that he has lawful status in the United States.

Since his arrest, ICE has gone out of their way to make him look like one of the worst of the worst in the United States.

And it was a narrative designed to turn the public opinion against him, because they messed up by arresting a person in lawful status at a medical center with his 13 year old daughter.

>> Jeff: Let's spend a moment on the location.

They arrested him at a medical center.

We know that the Trump administration got rid of so-called sensitive places.

Briefly.

What's so worrying to you about the place he was arrested and the folks you work with?

What kind of an effect does that create for people?

>> Love: It makes people terrified to use services that are critical to our well-being, all of our well-being.

We need a healthy community.

And when people are too afraid to use our medical centers, when people are too afraid to go to schools, then the entire health of the community suffers.

Not just the people who are non-citizens.

>> Jeff: That is part of the argument that we█ve all heard from state lawmakers, local lawmakers in Santa Fe and Albuquerque and elsewhere during the course of the time that they were passing so-called immigrant friendly policies for the state and the city.

So I think that some people watching this are going to think, Allegra, how the hell could these sorts of things be happening in a place like Santa Fe that couldn't be more legally fortified?

What is the answer to that question?

>> Love: I mean, they're happening because as a country, we have not figured out how to hold Ice accountable for behaviors like this.

I believe Mr.

Chacon Miranda is going to make it back to his family.

If we all do our jobs correctly, he is going to make it back to his family.

But I don't know how the officer who made the decision to arrest him is going to change his behavior, because we don't have any way to make him change his behavior, and we don't have any laws that he needs to follow right now.

>> Jeff: Is there a political piece to this?

I've noticed that having seen a couple of written statements from Santa Fe Mayor Mike Garcia reacting to the events of the last couple of weeks, I can't say that I've seen a news conference or even a social media video where he's speaking directly to folks.

Is that something that would be meaningful to the folks in the communities you work with?

>> Love: Yes.

I think what I would like to see more of from local politicians, I want to see more of it from our national politicians as well, our congressional delegations.

I want to see more of it from our governor.

Is this willingness to push beyond the sort of easier answers, the ones that say like, oh, we don't have jurisdiction, or ICE is allowed to do whatever they want and start really, really working creatively to figure out what can we do.

It's also on us to let them know that this is an incredibly important topic to us, and that we're watching them, and we're deciding how we're going to vote in upcoming elections based on their how much creativity they're willing to apply to these to these problems of ICE.

>> Jeff: Before I let you go, I want to spend a moment on community.

Let's strip government out of the conversation for a moment.

What do you suggest to people who are either vulnerable or want to stand up for folks who are, in terms of acting as a community, outside the context of waiting for or asking for politicians to do something.

>> Love: So that's a great question, and I'm really happy to talk about it.

There's a lot of talk nationally, locally about doing rapid response in the event of a crisis.

We do have a hotline here in Santa Fe that you can call, and if people are so motivated, they can participate in that people should definitely save that number in their phone.

So in case they see ICE activity, they can call it and have members of our community verify it.

And it's going to sound silly because everyone's rapid response.

But I want to do slow response.

I want to work, have people work together in community.

So we have connections and we have built trust ahead of any crisis.

We're doing this workshop here in Santa Fe, called La Red which is families coming in together to make community -- to make family emergency plans and create a connection with the law office.

So when there is a crisis, they can get good information.

And if there is a family arrest, we can move quickly.

That is slow work.

And I always tell people who want to help that, like, you're probably not going to disrupt an ICE arrest.

That's a very difficult and dangerous thing to do.

But what if you were a trusted contact who brought someone into a legal program?

What if you were one of their emergency contacts?

What if you were someone who could pick up their kids from school in the event of emergency?

That is absolutely critical work because it addresses the need for legal defense as well as the need for community trust and all the other resources that families need food rental assistance, child care, and doing the slow work of becoming someone that a noncitizen can trust is like incredibly radical work.

>> Jeff: Allegra, thank you so much for your time.

I really appreciate you coming in to talk to me.

>> Love: I appreciate the conversation.

>>Eleanor: If there is a situation like this, Where the state decides that you know, we█re not going to participate, in for example forcing immigration law, we don█t have to participate.

We don█t have to use our resources to do the federal government█s job.

>> Nash: We'll revisit that conversation I had with State Representative, Eleanor Chavez about New Mexico's Immigrant Safety Act, in about 30 minutes, and thanks to Jeff and Immigration Attorney, Allegra Love.

You can watch their full interview, including some more background on that specific arrest she mentioned on our YouTube page.

Now, looking ahead to the 2028 Presidential race, the Democratic National Committee is changing its primary schedule and New Mexico is moving way up the list.

The shakeup brings some pretty big changes to how and where Democrats will campaign in the lead up to the primary.

I sat down with State Party Chair, Sarah Attleson and Democratic former State Senator Dede Feldman for a lookj at the new primary calendar and what an early stop in the Land of Enchantment could mean for the issues that newly resonate.

>>Nash: Sara, Dede, welcome to New Mexico in Focus.

Thank you so much for having this conversation.

So the Democratic National Committee approved a new primary calendar for the 2028 presidential election.

Sara, let's start with what looks different, especially in those early states.

>>Sara: What looks different is we will be having several candidates coming.

Presidential candidates.

There are numerous already in the works.

Folks have already indicated that they are running for president and they will be coming to New Mexico.

So, you know, New Mexico has always been an afterthought in Democratic primaries.

And finally, we are no longer an afterthought.

>>Nash: And that is because we are going to be fourth in line So we've got South Carolina coming up first, then Nevada, New Hampshire, which has always been an early state, and now New Mexico, followed by Michigan and Virginia.

Well, Dede political strategist David Plouffe, who was President Obama's campaign manager, he was an advisor on Kamala Harris campaign.

He called the new calendar the most consequential shakeup in decades in an opinion piece in the New York Times.

What do you think is so significant about this change?

>>Dede: Well, candidates will have to think about the West with the early primaries in Nevada and New Mexico.

They will have to think about the Hispanic population, the Native American population, rural issues, water issues, public lands issues.

All these were sort of-- under under the radar in Iowa and New Hampshire.

And so I think we will get candidates focusing more on the border and on issues of importance to minorities.

South Carolina, with the black population there, that's going to be, you know, a Democratic Party that is focused on the black population, the Hispanic population, the Native American population, as well as, you know, white New Hampshire and Iowa voters.

>>Nash: And that's the Democratic Party has messaged this a bit saying that this is what the intention behind changing this calendar was.

Do you think, Sara, that this new calendar represents the party better when we're talking about the racial diversity of these states, the economic diversity of these states, comparative to how it used to be?

>>Sara: Absolutely.

This calendar definitely does.

And with New Mexico in play, look, we have all the demographics that the Democratic Party needs in order to win elections.

Those are the we have the largest Hispanic population.

We have a large Native American population.

We have a large working class population.

We have a rural population.

And we we have done we have been voiceless for some time.

And I think the impact of us being the fourth to vote for the presidential candidate, all of those demographics will finally have a strong voice in who our next president will be.

>>Nash: And what do you all think this means for which presidential candidates, Democratic presidential candidates will make it through this kind of six state gantlet in terms of when we're looking at the racial diversity.

You mentioned South Carolina having a large black electorate.

New Mexico having a large Hispanic electorate, along with Nevada, though, there's this dwarfed compared to ours.

What does that mean for-- You know, you talked about what they're thinking about, but what they're messaging, what they're running on and who makes it through these early states.

>>Dede: Well, you know, it just brings up the whole weirdness of our primary system.

And that is, you know, those that make it through these individual states may not be the candidate that could garner a majority of Democratic votes.

You have to look at are these early states going to be swing states?

And if you look at that list there, New Mexico is not a swing state, but Michigan is a swing state.

Nevada is a swing state.

Virginia is the sort of a swing state, and New Hampshire is a swing state.

South Carolina, I think-- >>Nash: And what does that mean?

>>Dede: Well, it means that if you win in a certain swing state, you might have a better chance of carrying that particular swing state so that, you know, that would be sort of factored in.

But whether you can make it through the primary season is a different question, is a question of momentum.

It's a question of money, you know, and it's a it's a question of organization.

Are some of these states caucus states or some of them primaries that requires a different kind of organization.

So it's it's a tricky question.

I don't think that if you make it through these five states, you you're guaranteed to have a better chance of becoming president.

You're because you're just looking at one party here, you're not looking at what's happening in the other party, >>Nash: But you have momentum to become the nominee.

No doubt.

Go ahead Sara.

>>Sara: And I think also, Dede, Senator Feldman, I also think that New Mexico for a long time has, has taken the Democratic values and used them as a blueprint to implement and create policy.

And I think candidates are going to want to hear, hear about that, you know, free tuition for New Mexicans, universal childcare, reasonable cost for health care.

Those are all things affecting the whole country.

And I think candidates coming to New Mexico are going to be interested listening to our voters and their voices.

>>Nash: A number of the policies that you just mentioned, these were significant policy wins for Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham.

She's gotten a lot of credit for New Mexico making the early states list for advocating to the DNC to make this happen.

Absolutely.

So do you believe that her policy wins?

Her approach to Democratic politics will resonate with the presidential candidates who end up coming through New Mexico.

I mean, you've already mentioned universal childcare, free college tuition.

These were some of her biggest wins.

>>Sara: And I think the candidates coming into New Mexico are going to want to see how it was done.

How New Mexico, little blue New Mexico, Who has been overlooked, How did we get that done?

And they're going to listen to our rural voters, our working class voters, our Hispanic voters, our Native American voters.

And I think that is how we differ from the other early, early states.

>>Dede: Yeah, it's certainly better than just making a speech at the convention.

And now that which is what Michelle Lujan Grisham did last time.

But now this time, the candidates will have come in contact with people who have been thrown off of Medicaid.

That's a national issue, or people who are suffering the effects of drought.

That's may not be a national issue, but it isn't-- It is-- brings into focus climate change and all the environmental concerns that have been overlooked in this administration.

>>Nash: This may be particularly acute here in New Mexico when talking about Medicaid, a huge portion of our population, more so than other states in the country, utilize Medicaid, something unique about New Mexico as far as Democratic states go, is that we are a top oil and gas producer.

Where does that play in?

>>Sara: I think candidates-- it's a big issue with energy.

And energy is like Senator Feldman just mentioned, energy and the environment are a huge, huge question in all the states.

And so it's going to play a part.

We are it's just Texas and New Mexico that are the largest producers of gas and oil.

And I think New Mexicans have opinions about that.

>>Nash: Well, usually oil and gas proliferation is considered a conservative, a Republican issue.

So is that a tough needle to thread for Democratic candidates, presidential candidates who are coming through New Mexico who may be talking about limiting oil and gas production?

Well, you know, I think you have to look at what what is happening here in New Mexico.

We have one of the strongest methane rules, for example, to control oil and gas pollution And we have, you know, we have a land commissioner that has restricted drilling on state lands.

So all of those can be models for national policy.

It'll be interesting to see which of the candidates visit Little Texas, eastern New Mexico to see whether what their concerns are or do they need the votes from that area?

Probably not to win a Democratic primary, but will they visit anyway just to see what's going on there?

>> Nash: Thanks to State Democratic Party Chair, Sara Attleson and former State Senator, Dede Feldman, and stick around as we continue that conversation in just five minutes with a look at the logistics of holding a separate primary election and how an ideological shift in the party could play out here in New Mexico.

Now to several developments this week, adding a snag to the timeline for a controversial hyperscale data center under construction in Dona Ana County.

A couple state Supreme Court orders and a recusal this week do not mean that Project Jupiter is dead in the water, but they do hold up the permitting that Yucca Growth Infrastructure or YGI needs to move ahead.

Let's take these updates one at a time.

The company plans to power Project Jupiter using a fuel cell system, as we've reported previously on this program.

The microgrid plan would produce more greenhouse gas pollution than the state's three largest cities combined.

YGI has applied for an air quality permit from the state environment Department to authorize more than 8 million tons of greenhouse gas emissions a year.

A hearing on that application was scheduled for next month, but on Sunday, the New Mexico Supreme Court paused the proceeding at the request of environmental advocacy organization New Energy Economy.

The Santa Fe-based nonprofit argued the hearing became unfair when changes denied them a meaningful opportunity to prepare and present their case for several reasons.

The court filing cited that the hearing officer sped up the process after a meeting between Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham and representatives from Oracle AI, one of Project Jupiter's proposed anchor tenants.

The hearing officer, it goes on, eliminated discovery or the exchange of evidence between parties, refused to hear a motion to dismiss over whether the project can access the natural gas needed to operate.

After the State Land Office declined a proposed pipeline partially built on State Trust Land and finally allowed the Environment Department to not hand over a huge administrative record until the day the challengers sworn testimony was due.

New Energy Economy argued, quote, “the cumulative effect is extraordinary.” Due process does not guarantee merely a seat in the hearing room and an opportunity to react in real time.

It guarantees a meaningful opportunity to know the case, investigate the facts, prepare the evidence, present claims and defenses, and effectively test the opposing evidence.

Taken together, the procedural reversals challenged here deprive petitioners of precisely that opportunity and make judicial intervention necessary before the hearing occurs and the constitutional injury becomes irreversible.

The state Supreme Court will review the process during the pause without weighing in on the Air Permit itself.

Meanwhile, that hearing officer in question, Max Shepherd, who the Environment Department had appointed to the post, removed himself from the case in an order released this week.

His decision follows a different emergency filing by the New Mexico Environmental Law Center and the center for Biological Diversity, which called for a hearing to disqualify him from the case.

While Shepherd didn't grant that hearing, he did disqualify himself.

In a statement, Environmental Law Center Senior Staff Attorney Maslyn Locke said, quote.

“Mr.

Shepherd ultimately did the right thing.

His pattern of reversing his decisions showed what we perceived to be a clear pattern of favoritism and bias towards NMED and YGI that would have made a fair hearing completely impossible.

We're hopeful that if this process moves forward, impacted community members and supporting organizations will not only have a say in the selection of the next hearing officer, but will also be provided all constitutional guarantees we are entitled to.” With the hearing paused, and now no hearing officer assigned to the case.

It remains unclear when the proceedings will restart, but it's unlikely that the Environment Department will make its initial November 23rd deadline for a final decision on that Air Permit.

In addition to these two big developments around the controversial data center█s future in southern New Mexico.

The state Supreme Court issued one more order on Sunday, this time related to a water permit.

The office of the State Engineer, or O.S.E., last year, gave Santa Teresa Capital Emergency Authorization to use water from a nearby well and to redrill it for the construction of Project Jupiter.

But it never provided public notice or held a hearing about whether changing the water's use from irrigation to construction was in the public interest.

The center for Biological Diversity filed an emergency petition with the High Court.

They argued that those steps are required under state law.

The nonprofit wrote, quote.

“By abrogating its clear non-discretionary statutory duty and granting Santa Teresa Capital's emergency application for a new water use in drought stricken Southern New Mexico.

OSE has given away tens of millions of gallons of precious fresh water resources without due process harming petitioner, other water rights holders, New Mexico's water conservation efforts, and the public welfare of the state.” The center cited water meter data that showed that the company had pumped more than 100 million gallons since April The state Supreme Court unanimously ordered a temporary stop to the use of water from the new well.

This is a constantly developing story that we know many of you are watching closely, so we'll continue to keep you updated.

Find our past coverage on the Project Jupiter Data Center on the New Mexico in Focus YouTube channel.

>> Nash: Now, back to the recent change to the Democratic Presidential Primary schedule.

When we left off, we were talking about New Mexico's status as both a blue state and top level and gas producer, as my conversation with the Chair of the New Mexico Democratic Party, Sara Attleson, and former State Senator Dede Feldman continues, we unpack how the progressive wing of the party, that's had some recent successes nationally, may fair here in New Mexico, and what still needs to happen to make all this a done deal.

>>Nash: Not only have we had a land commissioner who's limited oil and gas drilling on state trust land, but the Democratic nominee for governor, Deb Haaland, when she was interior secretary, limited oil and gas exploration in Chaco Canyon, for instance.

So it brings to mind for me the the governor's race this year and what that says about the candidates who are going to resonate in the Democratic Party.

Come 2028, Deb Haaland, not even arguably more progressive than Sam Bregman, who she defeated in the primary.

But just recently, the state Central Committee of the Democratic Party selected Stephanie Garcia Richard, the land commissioner, over a arguably more progressive senator, Harold Polk Jr.

So when we're looking at these early states, I think there's a lot of argument that the more moderate candidates might fare better in these.

What about New Mexico?

It would a progressive, even a democratic socialist presidential candidate farewell here?

>>Sara: You know, I think it's a well-- It's up to the voters.

We'll see what what the voters.

It's the voters decision.

I'm leaving it up to the voters.

I can't-- >>Nash: In terms of what you know about the Democratic Party that you chair, What do you think resonates in terms of policy positions?

Would, in Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, resonate with with New Mexico Democratic primary voters?

New Mexico mayors and the values of the Democratic Party?

For me, that is a huge issue in our state.

I hear it all over when I travel the state affordability, health care, those education, those are issues that are Medicaid.

Those are important issues to the voters.

So it's whoever the candidate who resonates with them.

And, you know, we have universal childcare that just happened in New York City.

You know, we're way ahead of of- >>Nash: Right, Mayor Zoran Mamdani is also pushing for a similar-- >>Sara: And so it's it's it's really hard to say if New Mexico is Progressive, Conservative, to the left.

To the right.

I it depends on the counties.

>>Nash: What do you think Dede?

>>Dede: I think that if some of the progressive candidates if, if Mamdani, if Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez would come to Albuquerque, she would draw a huge audience, she would draw a huge audience.

And I think there is a real progressive, progressive feeling in Albuquerque, in Albuquerque.

And there would be a great interest in in that candidacy.

But I think come the primary election itself, remember this time, and it was a factor, a little bit of a factor in the in the recent gubernatorial primary independents are now able to vote in the Democratic primary if they if they choose to.

>>Nash: That's right.

>>Dede: And so that's a factor also.

>>Nash: And how so how might that show up?

>>Dede: Well, you know people thought in the Democratic primary that we just had that it would skew more conservative because the Democrats-- the independent what what happened was quite the contrary.

It actually showed that those independents were a lot more progressive than you would think.

And so, you know, I think some people are independent for a reason because they are disillusioned with both parties.

And so in that way, I think having a democratic socialist visit and, and court, those people would make it exciting and it would promote discussion of the issues.

That's what a primary is supposed to do.

>>Nash: Do you think more of those independent voters might show up for a Democratic presidential primary, especially as an early state?

>>Sara: You know, in our last primary, which was the first time we had an open primary.

The independents declined estates.

It was a 4 to 1 that asked for Democratic ballots.

That's very telling.

>>Nash: Compared to who asked for a Republican vote?

>>Sara: Yes, 4 to 1.

And I think we have more voices now with the open primary.

The independents and the decline to state will now also have a voice.

>>Nash: Now, while presidential candidates will no doubt be winnowed down through the early states.

Do you think that when they come through New Mexico that we could, that the state's Democratic voters could take out some of the candidates?

Do you think that New Mexico will have a significant impact on who makes it through the early states, like their stop here in this state in particular?

>>Sara: I do, I think we can very definitely have a say on who the next presidential Democratic candidate is.

>>Nash: Let's say a group of presidential candidates come here and campaign.

Things are resonating.

We are having this strong impact on what they're talking about.

Do you think it lasts or do they move on to the broader array of states after this early set and change their message again, or do we have a lasting impact on where these campaigns go?

>>Dede: Well, I think that Nevada and New Mexico coming so close together, we'll have a good impact to to make sure that candidates are are considering Western issues.

But I think if you look at primaries in the past, people drop out because they do a poor showing in the first state and the second state, and then they run out of money, then they and then they the their fundraising dries up.

So the fact that we're, you know, we're down the line, we're not first or second and neither is Nevada.

Nevada is second.

Nevada is second.

I think Nevada would have more of a determinative role in candidates dropping out or not.

>>Nash: Now, we have talked a lot about the impact of New Mexico on the presidential campaign in 2028.

I would like to talk a little bit about this early primary impact on New Mexico.

So this is not yet set in stone.

Sarah, all the states that are named in this new DNC calendar need to finalize it on the state level.

What does that look like here?

>>Sara: We will change the law.

It will come up for a vote in the next legislative session coming up soon in the 2027.

So we'll have it in place.

I don't know what the bill looks like.

I do know that our governor supports it.

The New Mexico Democratic senators are excited, and Speaker Javier Martinez and the rest of the Democratic caucus are very excited.

They're on board.

>>Nash: It's basically sure to pass.

Let's talk a little bit, I know you haven't seen the bill, but to be clear, would it just change the primary for 2028 and would it only changed the presidential primary and not the others?

>>Sara: You're absolutely right, I misunderstood.

Yes, this is a one time deal.

The statue is just for the 2028 presidential primary.

That's it.

>>Dede: And the Democratic primary.

The only the Democratic primary.

Only the Democratic primary.

The Republican party, it will not be involved.

Once it's in statute, then it goes back after 2028.

We don't know where it goes after that.

>>Nash: Presidential races are a huge driver of turnout.

Primaries already see lower turnout than the general elections.

And on a presidential year, that's what's driving so many people to the polls.

So what does that mean for turnout in June for state races and local races?

>>Dede: It might not be so good.

It might not be so good.

Although I think in New Mexico we have a good turnout on the non presidential years anyway so that, you know, it won't be worse than that.

And and that's pretty good as opposed to some other states.

But you know changing the date of an election is a big deal because you have to work backward from that date and set the date for petition deadlines for for campaign contribution reporting periods.

And it's it requires a complete change in the election code.

And that's that's no small matter.

You know, when do you mail out absentee ballots to to voters overseas?

It might be in December for this this under this new under this new primary for the president.

>>Nash: In addition to changing all of these deadlines, that means that the state would need to put on a whole nother primary, an additional primary-- >>Dede: It█s an additional election.

>>Nash: What does that look like in terms of cost?

Well, it's going to be more money.

And I think the estimate was 15 million or something.

>>Sara: You know, the Rio Grande Foundation did have a kind of I see it as a cherry picked number.

I spoke with other folks last week when I was at the DNC that have had early primaries, and they said, no way, that's absurd number.

>>Nash: Was that the $15 million?

>>Sara: Yes.

>>Nash: I saw that 15 million.

And it came from the legislative finance committee from a 2024 analysis of primaries in general, not this one in particular, but primaries in general, how much they have cost.

>>Sara: And the early states that I spoke to the DNC recently said that sounds absurdly high.

So that's I'm this is anecdotal.

>>Dede: We will have that estimate during the legislative session.

The LFC will do an analysis on how much this will cost, and the Secretary of State will weigh in, and so will the county clerks.

The county clerk's will be running an extra election.

This is an extra election over and above what they usually do, which means they have to train poll workers.

They have to they have to set up a schedule for counting the votes after the election, new certification dates.

There's a lot to do, but it can be done.

And I think when you look at it, even if the logistics are awkward, it is really worth it for the attention that will come to New Mexico, the economic development that will that will follow, the attention that we will get.

I think that it was just, you know, a bad situation.

People didn't vote in the June presidential primary in the past because it had already been decided.

It really wasn't a big draw for people to come to vote in June.

The front runner was determined.

>>Nash:That's an interesting point.

You know, and this this isn't the first time that we will have ever held a February presidential primary.

This happened 20 years prior in 2008.

Dede what lessons can be learned from that experiment?

>>Dede: Well, that was a totally different situation.

Bill Richardson kind of bullied the legislature and the public into doing an early February primary for his own presidential ambition.

He was running for president that year, and he he felt like many of us did, that a June primary was too late for New Mexicans to have any impact, and he wanted them to have impact because he was running for president.

But in that year, >>Nash: But he had dropped out before that February-- >>Dede: That was the irony.

That was the irony.

By the time the the primary date rolled around, he had dropped out.

John Edwards had dropped out, Dennis Kucinich had dropped out, Biden had dropped out, Chris Dodd had dropped out.

And basically the only candidates were Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.

And Hillary Clinton won the primary very narrowly by 49%, and Barack Obama got 47.8%, which, you know, it's not a winner take all system in these primaries.

That's another thing that you have to remember.

It is a proportional thing.

And when people are voting for a presidential candidate, they're really voting for the delegates that are pledged to that candidate.

Correct.

In the Democratic National Convention.

So so the split between Obama and Hillary Clinton was, you know, one got 12, the other got 13.

Yeah, it's nominal, but the the experience for New Mexicans was a bad one because the disaster, the disaster that ensued had people waiting in line for hours.

The ballots read out.

Some people voted on scraps of paper.

The results were not in for nine days.

>>Nash: So what, How can that how can that be avoided this time?

Or you said it's a it's a very different situation.

How so?

>>Dede: It will be run by the state this time.

It will be run by professionals run by the non volunteers who had no experience in, in local elections.

So this will be a very different thing.

And, you know, the poor head of the Democratic Party and the executive director, the executive director resigned after this, after this election.

And there was great finger pointing and blame casting afterwards.

It was it was a negative experience, >>Nash: but that it shouldn't create fear around this experience because it would be set up in a different way, run in a different way-- >>Dede: And people don't remember it, I don't think, except for us oldsters.

>>Nash: Yeah, I█m sure plenty of PBS viewers like to [inaudible].

>>Sara: And I think, you know, having a state run as opposed to the party run, our secretary of state office runs incredible, incredible, wonderful elections.

And I think we have to remember that.

And once it's in their hands, I feel really good about that.

>>Nash: Thank you all so much for this conversation, for breaking all this down.

Really appreciate it.

>>Sara: Thank you.

>>Dede: Thank you.

>> Nash: Thanks again to State Democratic Party Chair Sara Attleson and former State Senator Dede Feldman.

We'll let you know when New Mexico's spot on that 2028 Democratic Primary schedule is in fact, written in stone.

But we end tonight with a return to the conversation around federal immigration enforcement and some context on state actions meant to protect immigrant rights in New Mexico.

The US Department of Justice recently sued the city of Albuquerque Mayor Tim Keller, the state of New Mexico, Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham, and Attorney General Raul Torres over local immigration policies.

You heard about the city ordinance earlier in the show, and you may already be familiar with the statewide law in question too, the Immigrant Safety Act, which bars local governments in New Mexico from contracting with ICE to detain people without legal status.

It also bans agreements that authorized local law enforcement to serve ICE warrants on people held in local jails.

It went into effect in May, just after this lawsuit came down.

Shortly after, we invited lead sponsor, Democratic Representative Eleanor Chavez to the studio to discuss the lawsuit.

Here's a portion of that previously aired interview.

>> Nash: Representative, welcome to the show and thanks for being here.

>> Chavez: Thank you for having me.

>> Nash: So, in the complaint, the DOJ says the Immigrant Safety Act, quote, “seeks to eliminate decades of old voluntary agreements between localities and the federal government that are critical to federal immigration law enforcement.” And it says that the law intentionally obstructs federal law enforcement.

What was your intention?

Was that your intention as the lead sponsor of this bill?

>> Chavez: Right, so, you█re speaking about the 287G agreements.

And so, no, that was not our intention.

It's the federal government's job to enforce immigration laws.

It's not localities -- of state and local police█s job to do that.

>> Nash: And 287G█s, these are -- agreements that enable local law enforcement to enact immigration enforcement.

Is that right, can you clarify?

>> Chavez: Right, they█re agreements between -- the federal government, ICE and localities to participate in enforcing immigration laws.

And again, that's not their job to do.

Their job is to enforce state and local laws and to keep our community safe.

>> Nash: They also speak to these voluntary agreements between localities and the federal government.

Would that not also apply to the Detention Centers where the counties have contracted with ICE?

>> Chavez: The detention centers -- Yeah, well -- so basically, the intent of the law in terms of the detention centers was to align New Mexico values with with our law.

We did not want to see the detention centers continue to have contracts with localities to provide detention for civil immigration detention.

that's the federal government, again, that█s the federal government's job to do.

We do not believe that the detention centers -- there's three of them in New Mexico.

We did not support the contracts continuing because of the fact that we've heard so much coming out of those detention centers in terms of abusing prisoners, lack of water, lack of medical care, lack of access to legal advice, raw sewage -- and we've all heard the stories nationally in terms of immigrants who have either committed suicide or who have died because of lack of medical care or because of abuse by the guards inside of those detention centers.

>> Nash: And so that was the intent behind the law?

If -- as the DOJ says, under the Supremacy Clause, state laws can't obstruct Congress's objectives.

How is what this law does constitutional?

>> Chavez: So, basically, the law is not obstructing what the federal government's role is in immigration.

We are simply not participating in it.

So, that's the difference.

And as I understand it, the 10th Amendment protects state rights in terms of doing that.

We don't -- If there's a situation like this, where the state decides that, we're not going to participate in, for example, enforcing immigration law, we don't have to participate.

We don't have to use our resources to do the federal government's job.

>> Nash: as this lawsuit plays out, Attorney General Raul Torres has said he won█t enforce two Otero County contracts that it would apply to.

But for the other two counties that -- have had contracts with ICE for immigrant detention, that would be Torrance and Cibola counties.

It no longer actually applies to those prisons because the private prison company that owns those facilities, CoreCivic went ahead and contracted directly with ICE, so kind of got around the county middleman.

So how impactful would the law really be on this detention center piece?

Even if it were being enforced across the board?

>> Chavez: So if it were being enforced across the board, we believe that it would be impactful.

A couple of things that I was told, during the time that we were getting ready for the legislation is that there are fewer -- arrests made by immigration if they don't have detention facilities close by where they can take people to.

So it was our belief that the number of arrests and the kind of -- for lack of a better word, terrorizing of communities that ICE is doing, would go down.

Our intent, in terms of this law, was to protect our community, to keep our immigrant sisters and brothers safe, so that they would be able to, for example, go to school, go to work -- go to the hospital without fear of being detained by ICE.

If that's the case, if those prisons -- if there isn't somewhere nearby to take detainees -- but there are still, right?

If CoreCivic has contracted directly with ICE, these prisons in Cibola and Torrance counties will remain open, will continue to hold ICE detainees.

So is that effort going to actually come from this law?

If they've been able to maneuver around it?

>> Chavez: Right, and when we introduced the legislation, we knew that there was a possibility that they would do that.

And really, when you think about it, if you really think about what CoreCivic and some of these out-of-state corporations are doing, it's not about any kind of public safety that some people talk about.

It's not about protecting people from criminals, really, it's about making profit off of this.

Is there anything more that you and your colleagues in the roundhouse could do to see an actual end to immigrant detention in New Mexico?

Or if this is between now private companies in the federal government?

Are your hands tied?

>> Chavez: I think there's a lot that we can do.

And again, those are some of the things that we're exploring.

I don't have any specifics right now because -- we did, you know, we had a sense that they may do an end run, but we're really looking at what are those possibilities, and it's not for us.

You know, this isn't the end of it.

We're going to continue to pursue this issue.

>> Nash: So, no specifics yet.

But are you having those conversations with your colleagues?

>> Chavez: We are.

>> Nash: Okay.

>> Nash: Okay.

Representative Chavez, thanks for your time.

>> Nash: Attorney General Torres filed a motion to dismiss that lawsuit back in June.

We'll keep you updated as the case moves forward.

And you can watch my entire May interview with Representative Chavez right now on the New Mexico in Focused YouTube page.

Before we go, we wanted to acknowledge a recent story from the Santa Fe New Mexican detailing high turnover and hostile conditions at the New Mexico Office of African-American affairs.

The former host of this show, Gene Grant, serves as the Executive Director of that office.

We had him on, when Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham first appointed him, to talk about his vision for the role.

After this news broke, we invited him back on this week to respond to the accusations from former employees.

He declined.

Instead, next week on the show we█ll welcome the journalist who reported the story for The New Mexican, Lily Alexander and one of those former employees to explore the concerns and accusations that span multiple directors over several years.

In a history of underfunding for the office dating back to its creation.

That's next week on New Mexico in Focus.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this week's show, for New Mexico PBS, I'm Nash Jones.

Until next week, stay focused.

Funding for New Mexico in Focus is provided by viewers like you.