-I just got off the -microphone from my own show -just like 10 seconds ago.

I -was like, this is perfect timing and I still have to record a solo episode.

My producer was like, I need five solos.

-And I'm like, Oh my gosh, -that's, yeah, that's real.

I -know it's a talk.

I just -call them talking days.

I -tell my husband, I'm like, -today's a talking day.

Gonna -be all day talking, and when -I'm done, I don't want to -talk at all.

Don't talk.

-Don't talk to me.

Don't talk -at me.

Don't start any -interesting conversations -about the world.

Yes, I know -this is Lisa woolfork, and -all that talking she's -talking about doing is for -the show she hosts called -Stitch please.

It's an audio -podcast that centers black -women, girls and femmes in -sewing and creativity at -large.

She's also an Acting -Associate Professor of -English at the University of -Virginia, and a sixth -generation sewer herself.

-It's my sewing room.

So I've -got, like, a machine over -there, a machine over there, -a machine over there, -machine over there, just -machines galore and a little -bit of thread.

This is the -place where dreams get -stitched up.

-Lisa is also the founder of -a sewing community called -Black Women's stitch.

She -calls it a sewing group -where Black Lives Matter, -and like many important -groups in which black people -come together to do an -awesome thing, it was born -out of the inability to do -that awesome thing somewhere -else.

It hasn't all been -quilting and roses for Lisa, -and it's what she's had to -overcome in her story that -makes her a perfect person -to speak with for part two -of our series exploring why -many black folks are -choosing to not be out in -these streets protesting -right now, because Lisa -knows these protest streets -well.

Before forming her -sewing community in 2017 she -was literally out in the -streets protesting and -nearly got hit by a car in Charlottesville, Virginia -in 2017 I had recently -survived the white -supremacist terror attack.

-After that, I went on a -quilt retreat, and many -people came up to me and -they said, Oh my gosh, I -heard about what happened, -or I saw you on the news, or -whatever my church is -praying for you.

We are just -we're just so shocked that -this happened.

You know, the -organizer of the event makes -an announcement when I am -not present, and the -announcement is that -Charlottesville is not to be -discussed and and so I'm -feeling really kind of like -shaken.

I'm feeling kind of -targeted.

I'm feeling like, -should I just go home?

I had -been sewing and quilting -with these women for about -15 years.

Many of them were -quite friendly, and, you -know, the weekend kind of -went off without a hitch, -but I noticed that the -organizer did not speak to -me when it was time to -leave.

So I said goodbye, -and she just stared at me -and walked away, which was -weird.

And so about a month -later, I retrieve an -envelope from the mail, and -it is a check that I have -written for the next quilt event, they returned your check to say, don't even bother coming.

-That's exactly right, I told -myself.

I said, Never again -will I audition my humanity -in exchange for doing something I loved?

And black women stitch was born, right?

-Then what's striking is that -when something so starkly -racist and hurtful happened -to Lisa, her response wasn't -reactive.

It was strategic.

-She didn't sink into that -all too familiar feeling -racism can trigger the sting -of isolation, the sense of -being alone or being -excluded.

Instead, she seems -to have felt something -closer to clarity.

She told -herself, there have to be -more people out there like -me and I'm going to create a -safe space to bring us -together.

And that instinct -toward togetherness, Lisa -believes may be exactly what -more of us are leaning into -right now.

If black people -aren't marching in these -streets right now, what are -we doing instead?

-We are galvanizing -from Vermont public, this is -home goings, a show that -invites you to eavesdrop on -candid conversations with -people who will challenge -what you think you know I'm -Myra Flynn today, part two -of our series, if black -people aren't marching, then -what our guest is podcast -host and sewist Lisa -woolfork, who shares with us -the many layered reasons why -she thinks black patience -and black forgiveness should -not be an assumed renewable -American resource.

Maybe.

-Right now we could be -quilting.

This is home -goings.

We're a proud member -of the NPR Network.

Welcome -home.

-Do you think my theory is -true?

Like there isn't a ton -of data that's released, at -least for 2026 regarding how -many black folks are or -aren't showing up to protest -at rallies and marches.

But -there's been so much -reporting and commentary and -surveys from 2025 that are -saying, like, where are all -the black people?

86% of this no kings rally was white.

So are you seeing what I'm seeing?

-I think I am seeing what -you're seeing, but I'm also -seeing that there are black -folks out there.

I think -that in the protests and -leadership that I've seen, -like in the Minnesota -protests, two black women -were arrested for an anti -ice protest direct action, -federal agents are at my -door arresting me for -filming the church protest.

-So I think that we are out -there.

I think what is -different is we are not out -there in such large and -dramatic numbers that people -are accustomed to seeing us.

-And I think part of that has -to do with the fact that 92% -of black women voted for -Kamala Harris and felt like -we we told you what was -going to happen, we voted in -a way that reflected that, -and you still refuse to -listen.

Why do you keep -asking us for things that -you don't truly want.

And so -I think what I sometimes -feel is I've seen a lot of -folks say things like, -where's Kamala Harris?

She wanted to be president, and where is she -now?

And I'm like, why on -earth would she do the job?

-You refuse to hire her -for even Michelle Obama, -when she got out of office.

-Like, don't even call me for -don't even look at me about -running, because you all are -lying.

You're not ready for -a woman you are not.

So -don't waste my time.

-I almost wrote her a bunch -of times.

I was so curious, -like, what made you so done, -but I'm like this, this is -what made you so done.

-Yeah.

And I think the idea -that somehow black patience -and black forgiveness is a -renewable American resource, -I think that one of the -unique tricks of American -slavery is the ways in which -it had become a system for -which no one was -responsible.

And this idea -that somehow black people -are not allowed to be upset -about it, right?

And so that -part, that part, right?

And -so it feels as though what -I'm witnessing, and why I -think some folks might be -reluctant to engage in -direct action in the -streets, for example, is -because what I have been -feeling personally is that -watching these folks have -their new awakening, having -these folks understand that, -oh, my goodness, the police -have excessive abusive Did -you know They could shoot -someone and not have -responsibility and just have -immunity.

Did you know that?

-And it's like, yes, I've -known that.

I knew that -since Elijah McClain, I knew -that since Trayvon Martin, I -knew that since Tamir Rice, -I knew that since Oscar -Grant, I knew that this idea -that somehow we are being -expected to show our work is -a question I refuse to -answer.

-What is it people?

What is -it people are asking us to -do?

Do you think it's -marching or what do you what -do we want from us?

-I think they want -absolution.

I think they -want to they want someone to -show them what to do.

They -want someone to help absorb -the heat.

They want someone -to, in some ways, validate -their experience with a -certain type of black -people, bona fide stamp.

But -the thing that I'm reminded -of, and I've said this -before, I said, if you -understood the fugitive -slave law in the first -place, we might not even -have this situation at all.

-Right, it is only because -the fugitive slave law was -allowed to function and -operate where everyone in -the nation supported the -slave holding South everyone -was responsible to make sure -that.

That any escaped black -person would be returned to -bondage, whether you -believed in that or not, and -that's what we see with this -attack on sanctuary cities.

-That's what we see now with -these different with these -abductions and pulling -people out of schools and -having no safe zones.

So you -can, if you go to church, if -you go to court and are -doing things the right way, -you can still be taken -right, right, right.

So -there are so many things -that have happened to black -people that set the stage -for what is happening now.

-I've been seeing a lot of -ICE agents recently being -called slave patrollers.

-Yes, that makes more sense, -because I think that in the -same ways that we understand -that Fascism is a global -threat.

We also have a lot -of American precedence for -what is happening now, and -the frustration that I -personally feel is that this -was acceptable when it was -happening to black people, -right?

That there was a time -in the 19th century and up -through the 20th century -where certain things that we -might consider a crime were -not considered crimes, you -know?

And so between the -black codes, between Plessy -versus Ferguson, between -Dred Scott, we have case -after case after case that -American law was necessary -to combat legalized anti -blackness, right and that -and that that was a category -somehow, and it just feels -frustrating to watch For -those of us who know that -blackness was designed or -treated as a category where -we are the canary in the -coal mine of American -democracy, what are the -greatest abuses that you can -do and have and still be -considered a shining beacon -of democracy?

What can you -do to what as long as you're -doing it to black people, right then we can practice how we do it to everybody else.

-I'm not going to assume, but -I'm, I'm going to maybe -assume that you're also -completely disgusted and -concerned about what's -happening to immigrants in -this country right now, -right?

Absolutely, also, but -also at the same time, -frustrated with how -blackness has been allowed -to operate with that same -harm done to to us for -centuries.

How do you -wrestle with that rub of -both holding empathy and -being pissed?

-I think it's a little I'm -able to hold it, I think -easily, I don't, I don't see -the difference.

Well, I do -see the difference, I think.

-But the difference that I'm -watching, essentially -watching white people be -newly shocked over something -that I've known for a long -time is not a new sensation, -right?

And it does nothing -to get in the way of my -empathy, compassion and the -need to demilitarize the -police.

I've been talking -about demilitarizing the -police for what feels like a -decade, right?

And so this -that we share these aims, -and I think it's the same -kind of rub that any black -person feels who has grown -up or grown through the idea -that if it is something for -black people, it can't -really exist.

But if it's -for quote, unquote, people -of color, then that is -something we can kind of all -get behind, right?

And so I -think part of it is just -another new operation of -anti blackness.

And you -know, we deal with that in -the same way we deal with -all of it.

You know, you -continue to live, you -continue to put one foot in -front of the other, you -continue to put one dream in -front of the other.

You -don't let someone derail you -or derail your thoughts and -hopes and dreams because -you're not pursuing -liberation on their -schedule.

We black folks.

We -are not behind.

We are not -behind in this question, and -I, for one, will not be -questioned by someone who -just got here.

I will.

I -will not have my approach -response or anything -questioned or challenged.

-Challenged by someone, as I -might say in another -context, hasn't done the -reading right, hasn't done -the homework right, hasn't -done the homework.

Doesn't -realize that you know that -we have been talking about -this as black folks and -excessive policing and -brutality and watching us -get murdered on camera, and -still, it not being -persuasive enough.

We've -watched them lie about us, -even as they are killing us.

-I think about that black man -who, I think maybe Oklahoma, -who was walking it was, it -was like a helicopter was -looking down at this traffic -stop and watching a cop -basically execute a man who -was walking toward her with -his hands up, and he looks -down and says, Oh, he was a -bad dude.

From from -from the sky, from the sky, -from the sky, from -the sky, wild.

I'm not going -to be shocked.

Of course, -I'm outraged because it's -outrageous, but I'm outraged -a lot.

I'm outraged.

Quite -often.

I spend a lot of -there's a lot of time that I -spend in in outrage, in -fear, in all of these things -at the same time.

Because I -know we are we are not new -to this.

We are true to -this.

We have been pursuing -liberation ever since they -have taken it from us, you -know, and we and we're -gonna, it's gonna look -different, I think.

But I -think what's worth reminding -people of, or even just -reminding ourselves of, is -that we don't have to show -our work to anyone.

-And I think also, there is -something happening right -now where collectively, -black women are agreeing -with that sentiment and not -showing up in these streets -for all of the reasons that -you just listed.

Can we go -back to this word -galvanizing?

Yes, yeah.

So -my question is all right, -because we have been -outraged, we're tired, we -are over it, and we are -visibly stepping back from -putting our bodies on the -front lines at the current -moment.

What are we doing -instead?

How are we -galvanizing?

-So when I thought about -galvanizing, and I was -thinking about like, what I -imagined it doing.

I imagine -galvanizing being something -that is kind of pulling, -almost like pulling all the -metal filings together, like -drawing all of these little -tiny, excuse me, like -drawing all these little, -tiny metal filings together, -right, right, pulling these -things together.

But what -it, what it really is, is -that galvanization kind of -also, I guess, -scientifically speaking, -provides this kind of -protective coat or layer -around what's around the -metal object.

And so I think -what I'm seeing is us moving -to protect ourselves, which -is what the galvanizing -process does, but also by -but also helping us to kind -of remind ourselves of our -value, you know.

And I think -that that's what, that's -what the step back could -possibly represent.

And -again, I do want to -acknowledge that there are -black women who are out -there.

There are black women -in Minnesota who are -organizing bookstores, who -are participating in all -kinds of different food -drives, who are in the -streets, who are making -calls.

You know, I don't -want to say that black women -are all.

Black women are -opting out.

There are a lot -of black women who are -opting out at the end, -there's some of us who are -opting to let other people -take the lead.

I don't see -this as me not doing that.

I -don't see this as me not -stepping into the streets.

I -don't see that that way.

I -see it as an opportunity to -let someone else step -forward.

If we always step -forward, then there's no -space for other people to -step forward.

And this is an -opportunity for that to -happen.

And this is not an -end.

This is a beginning.

-This end is because, and it -is not of it is a true -unfortunate marathon and not -a sprint.

And so you are -going to need people in -three months, six months, -who are not entirely -exhausted, who have the -capacity to share messaging, -to create messaging, to be -involved in a direct action -down the line, right?

You -were not.

Everybody needs to -do all the same things at -all the same times, you -know.

But.

Definitely am not -going to overlook the fact -that there are some black -women who are choosing to -protect their peace, to move -in ways that feel good and -ethical.

You know, they're -reposting things online.

-They're using their -platforms to draw attention.

-They're going on Instagram -Live and just kind of -sharing their feelings.

-They're donating to mutual -aid funds, you know, they're -sharing those resources.

So -I, you know, you know, black -women, we're not gonna not -do nothing like, that's just -not in us.

Like, I, you -know, I've heard these -quotes about, like, I think -the word lazy is the I think it's, I think it's really dangerous and -ugly.

Honestly.

I think the -idea of the lazy slave is -one of those tricks of white -supremacy, like, what's -lazier than stealing an -entire person to do your -work for you?

I'm just -saying it's, you know, it's -true.

You know it's true.

-Really, only white people -will be like, you lazy -slave.

-What?

Oxymoron, oxymoron.

-What?

-No, yeah, but late black -women being lazy like, I -don't know any.

Maybe that's -just my circle.

I don't know -any lazy black women.

I -don't and I think the people -that might use that word are -probably mad because we're -not doing enough for them.

-You know, I -haven't heard this term -popping up yet.

Is it out -there right now?

People are -saying that because we're -not showing up, that we're -lazy?

-No, no, no that, no, maybe -not misspeak.

I do not -believe that that is -happening at all, but I do -think the word lazy gets -tossed around too much, and -I think it gets tossed -around because some people -want to control other -people's time.

And what I -think black women are doing -as what we might imagine, is -what Maxine Waters talked -about, and that's Reclaiming -my time.

And so we do.

And I -think that there are black women, we have hearts.

We see what's -happening, and that's that's -why I say I've seen a lot of -folks reposting things, -sharing things, letting -people know what's -happening.

And so I don't -think we're sitting this -out.

I think that there are -many people who are, they -might not be sitting, they -might not be like in the -streets and for direct -action, and they're, you know how it is.

-Not everybody is cut out for -that.

Not everybody has -capacity to do that.

And so -they probably, they probably -weren't going to be doing it -anyway, you know.

And the -people that have done it, -you know, will are be the -ones that are going to do it -again.

So I just feel as -though we are at, -unfortunately, a beginning, -and we are going to need to -have reserves.

I think we're -going to need to pace -ourselves, and I think that -we're going to need to draw -upon our ancestral survival -skills, you know, I really -believe that, like you know, -I'll tell anyone, and I -still believe this to be -true.

We have survived so -many things that were -designed to destroy us, and -in the same way that we -might have intergenerational -trauma, we also have -intergenerational survival -and intergenerational -thriving.

We did more than -just live.

We did more than -just survive.

We are more -than the bare minimum, and -because of that, I don't -believe we owe anyone -anything, and what people -choose to give, I think, is -given in in love.

It's given -in solidarity.

It's given in -the firm belief that things -can and will and should be -better, but also with the -understanding that we are -the ones that are going to -make it better.

And in order -to make it better, you will -need reserves.

You will need -energy.

You will need a -community.

And that, I think -community has to have some -degree of elasticity that -allows everybody's gifts to -shine for the greater good.

-You thank you so much for -joining us.

If you want to -continue to be a part of the -homegoings family, like and -subscribe to our show on -YouTube.

Stay in -touch@homegoings.co and -subscribe to the podcast -wherever you listen, take -good care you.

You.