- Coming up on IGI, we feature analysis of the 2022 Kansas legislative session.

What decisions were made and how will these bills impact Kansans?

Stay with us.

(soft tones) - [Announcer] This program is brought to you with support from the Lewis H. Humphreys Charitable Trust and from The Friends of KTWU.

(upbeat music) - Hello and welcome to IGI.

I'm your host, Washburn University Professor of Political Science Bob Beatty.

2022 was quite a year in the Kansas legislature with a headspinning number of constitutional amendments, bill proposals and vetoes by the governor with lots of big issues involving tax cuts, redistricting, voting laws and even $1.3 billion in incentive money to, well, I don't know, it's a mystery.

Let's get right to our all-star panel of experts.

Joining us is Tim Carpenter, Senior Reporter for the Kansas Reflector, Dr. Michael Smith, Emporia State University Professor of Political Science, and via Zoom, Dr. Alexandra Middlewood, Assistant Professor of Political Science from Wichita State University.

Now getting to this, I had to color code all these different pieces of paper because there was so much going on in this legislative session.

We're talking vetoes that were overridden, vetoes not overridden, bills that were passed, constitutional amendments, but I wanted to actually start with something that didn't happen, because polls have shown it's one of the more popular issues in all of Kansas.

38 other states have done it, but it didn't happen again, and that's some form of medical marijuana.

We'll start with Tim Carpenter.

Why didn't this happen when it's so popular in the state of Kansas?

- Last year the Kansas house approved a bill.

I think the advocates of it greased a lot of palms in the house, and maybe they just need extra time to grease the senators' palms, but there was an effort by a committee chairman to do it.

He got kind of hung up on sports gambling, and I think he just ran out the clock and has vowed to come back in the 2023 session and go after medical marijuana.

- We'll get to the constitutional amendments, but an amendment involving abortion, I believe they got done in about 10 minutes.

It happened right away at the start of the session.

So you have this issue, medical marijuana, Michael Smith, that's so popular, and yet the end of the session, oh, we just didn't have time for this.

Maybe there's no correct answer to this, but why not get on it and get it done?

- Could be a deliberate strategy, that they didn't want to pass it.

It may be unpopular parts of the Republican party's base, and remember that many Republican legislators, their real race is their primary, not the general election.

There is some opposition from local law enforcement because the line between medical and non-medical uses can get a little bit blurry, but as you know, I've said it before Bob, to me, this is a border issue because medical marijuana is legal in Missouri.

So how is that supposed to work with Kansans that have prescriptions to fill in Missouri?

Are they supposed to use it in Missouri and then safely come back to Kansas or stay in Missouri until it's out of their system?

I think it's really become a border issue.

- And I think that's, you brought up a key point.

It's an election year, and so I think that's very possible that maybe some legislators said actually, we're for this, but we don't want to go back to our districts, maybe a conservative district and say oh yeah, you know, drugs are legal, and so they said we'll do it after the election.

- More importantly Bob, Governor Laura Kelly advocated for medical marijuana, so to deny her a political victory in an election year is more important than the public policy itself.

- So Tim, you're saying in an election year, sometimes both parties want to deny each other.

- I'm shocked, I'm very shocked.

- Okay.

- I continue to be shocked.

- All right, so that's the politics of that.

This session featured I think a fair number of constitutional amendments, three of which will be on the ballot.

One in August, two in November.

The first happened right out of the gate, which is the amendment would change the Kansas constitution on the abortion issue.

Who wants to dive in on that one?

Because voters will be seeing that in August when they vote, and of course, it's gotten a lot of publicity already.

- I'm a C student.

I sat on the back row, but I'll go ahead and start.

The abortion amendment would essentially nullify a Kansas Supreme Court ruling in which the justices found in the Bill of Rights of the Kansas Constitution a right to abortion.

The idea is if Roe V. Wade goes down by the US Supreme Court, then abortion would still be legal in Kansas due to this decision.

Now if people vote on August 2nd to reverse what the Supreme Court did, then the legislature would be free then to proceed with a complete ban on abortion if they wanted to.

There's a lot riding on that August vote.

- Now Alex, I'm gonna give you an unanswerable question related to this, 'cause I've been getting it a lot.

People think I might actually have the answer.

After the news was revealed that Roe V. Wade might be overturned, people keep asking me, well how's this going to influence the Kansas vote?

Do you have any idea about which side it may help, or either side?

- Yeah, it could potentially help both sides.

What we see is that pro-life advocates are easily mobilized when it comes to this issue in elections.

They have been for the last several decades, and so they may be even more likely to show up and vote in an election that has this constitutional amendment on the ballot.

But we also can say the same for the opposite, the advocates for, or I think they're calling themselves Kansans for Constitutional Freedom.

That side of the debate as well may mobilize voters to show up and vote in this election.

We also know as political scientists that constitutional amendments are much more likely to fail than pass, and so the passing the yes vote in this case has a more uphill battle to climb.

- Yeah, and Michael Smith, there was another constitutional amendment that would limit the executive branch or the governor's ability to enforce laws that are passed.

Basically it has been called limiting the governor on rules and regulations.

Do you know much about that one?

That seems a little more opaque than some of these others.

- It is a little opaque.

I think there are a couple of things going on here, Bob.

One is that the legislature is gambling heavily that presumably Derek Schmidt will defeat Laura Kelly and become the next governor, and then they may choose to revisit that.

I don't know, but the other issue is of course continuing backlash from mask and vaccination mandates, which were particularly unpopular in rural communities.

- And that one will be on the November ballot.

I would guess a lot of voters are gonna see oh, limit regulations.

In the state of Oregon for example, they often have ballot measures and amendments and every voter in the state of Oregon gets a voter's guide written by a nonpartisan commission that explains these.

That doesn't happen in Kansas.

The other one that we will see, Tim, is a constitutional amendment that county sheriffs have to be elected.

What's behind that one?

- I think that the impetus for that came out of Johnson County because some of the political people in Johnson County wanted to change the system over there to an appointive position rather than elective sheriff position.

That was viewed by Republicans, and the sheriff over there is a conservative guy who came and lobbied on behalf of this amendment.

Instead of just passing a law, they want to lock it down in the constitution that people have to be elected.

There will be an exception to that if the constitutional amendment passes, and that is in Riley County, you have a joint Manhattan Riley County Police Department, and that position will remain appointive.

If they ever switch to an elective, it's gonna stay elective going forward in all 105 counties at that point.

- That will be an interesting voting experience for Kansans in November, that's for sure.

Let's move on to Alex.

We'll start with you.

The topic of Medicaid, and Medicaid expansion obviously didn't happen, but some other things happened.

For example, there was a bill that was passed, the governor vetoed it, then it was overridden by the legislature, which told the governor that she can't enter into Medicaid contracts until 2023.

Talk about Medicaid expansion did not happen, but some other things did.

- Medicaid expansion, as you said, failed to pass once again, despite there being popular support for it amongst citizens and also bipartisan support in the state legislature.

Though we did see a couple of expansions to KanCare, which is our state's Medicaid program, did ultimately pass.

For example, they did expand postpartum coverage for women after they give birth who have now expanded coverage under KanCare.

This had been a temporary expansion under federal COVID policy, and the Kansas legislature chose this session to pick that up, to expand that in Kansas even beyond the federal guidelines.

We will see that that will expand health coverage to a large number of women in Kansas, and it has the potential to do a lot of really good things for women in Kansas who don't have healthcare.

It was largely the result of grassroots advocacy by maternal health advocates here in Kansas to push for that to happen.

- Now Michael Smith, medical marijuana has polled very well.

So has Medicaid expansion, but I noticed a difference.

We know we've heard some Republicans say yeah, it's gonna happen next year, or we need to work on this.

But when we talk about Medicaid expansion, it's just a no.

I actually briefly talked to Derek Schmidt, who's running for governor, and said what about Medicaid expansion after early in January?

And he just said, no.

What's the difference?

Why are many so vehemently opposed to Medicaid expansion?

- I think it's often framed, unfortunately, in my opinion, as sort of a public welfare issue, even though Medicaid does not disperse any cash benefits or EBT cards.

It pays healthcare providers directly, but it's been framed that way, and a good example, Bob, is when there have even been nibbles about this, there's been a very quick move to try to add work requirements so you can't have healthcare unless you're working and things like that.

It's really been a reframing as this is another quote, unquote welfare program.

There have also been a lot of concerns raised about the cost, because there's federal money to start the program and one of the naysayers' big arguments is what happens when the federal money ends.

However, many states that have implemented it, if they've implemented it effectively and have cost controls, have found that it's not as expensive as feared, but there's still the argument is that the federal government is suckering in the states with three, four years of funding and then there's a fiscal cliff.

- Yeah, I think that's a great point.

In many ways it's being framed not as a healthcare issue, 'cause healthcare is its own category with so many different aspects to it.

But if your point is if it's framed as a welfare issue, it can be much easier for people or legislators just to say no outright, and that politically seems to maybe explain some of it.

- And let's not forget that undocumented immigrants do not qualify for Medicaid and a host of other issues on programs.

However, part of the Trump phenomenon, which we still see traces of in Kansas, was the belief, often false, that undocumented immigrants qualify for public welfare benefits.

Generally speaking, that is false, but it did fuel that narrative, and that's probably not helping, either.

- Tim, what about this?

The legislature tells the governor you can't enter into any Medicaid contracts until 2023.

Is that one of these things of well, we're hoping we'll have a Republican governor and then let them do it then.

Is that what this is all about?

- That bill, interestingly, had no one testifying support of it.

No one came to the state house and said that's me, that's my bill.

It was a covertly advocated bill that passed the legislature.

The idea is specifically to prevent Laura Kelly and her administration from rewriting the rules of the road for the $4 billion a year Medicaid program.

I think there's some concern they're going to force these contractors to do more and maybe change some of the contractors, and so the powers that be, some of the Republican legislators like the current contractors and they believe they have a greater voice with a potential Republican governor, Derek Schmidt in terms of maintaining the status quo.

- There seems to be a theme, and maybe again unanswerable, and I'm gonna ask all three of you.

A theme throughout this session was we have a Republican legislature.

We obviously have a Democratic governor and we see bills that are trying to limit the power of the governor and the executive branch, but also we have a lot of people that think there's gonna be, that Derek Schmidt will win, a Republican governor.

Normally, I think in previous years, I'd think that Derek Schmidt might have said, don't pass that or I think I'm gonna win.

You don't need to do that.

Is this actually a legislature that regardless of who the governor is thinks that the executive is too powerful?

Alex, what do you think?

- I definitely think that that could be something that the state legislature is considering.

We saw a huge power struggle, not only in Kansas, but all across the country between legislatures and executives during COVID.

It would not surprise me if we saw the same type of mentality coming out of the Kansas legislature in this instance as well.

- [Bob] Yeah, Michael?

- Remember when we were saying now that Greg Orman's in the race, he and Laura Kelly will split the vote and Chris Korbach will be governor?

But that didn't happen.

- Seems like a long time ago, 2018.

- It does, that's point number one.

Point number two, to your point, let's not forget how much of the activity in the legislature was designed around political rather than policy concerns, and that's one of my concerns, is that so much of this is about grandstanding and posturing for elections.

And so again, I see this in large part as a backlash against vaccination and masking mandates or those that were even proposed and never passed.

I don't know if this is a policy choice at all, Bob, or if it's just more getting ready for the next election, in particular, when you're based in the primary - They could be hedging, because if they pass these laws, they're laws, they're not constitutional amendments, they're laws that they can try to cobble, tie the hands of Laura Kelly if she wins reelection.

But if Derek Schmidt wins, they can just pass another law and unwind it.

They can give him the key to the handcuffs and it's done.

- Yeah, I see what you're saying.

I mean, I think it's a great segue to what is one of the more significant bills that was passed, which was cutting the food sales tax, the sales tax on groceries, which is 6.5%.

A couple years ago, there was a bill along with a lot of other tax cuts in it.

Laura Kelly, the governor, vetoed it.

But a couple years ago, the Republican legislature wanted to start phasing out the food sales tax.

Two years ago, actually three, 2019.

So it seemed logical that if they're gonna do it again, they'd do it quickly, because three years ago they wanted it.

Instead, they wait until 2023 and then it's phased.

Is that just, in your opinions, is that another example of well, let's wait till after the election?

- It's politics, let's unpack it a little.

A couple years ago, the Republicans pushed through a massive tax bill and Laura Kelly called it a setup.

They threw the food sales tax in there to try to see if she'd take a bite and swallow the whole bill.

And she said no way.

She vetoed it, they changed it, she vetoed it again.

Now they come with the governor with a proposal to eliminate the food sales tax that the state charges is 6.5% on July 1st.

Can't do what the governor suggests, so gotta do an alternative plan.

The alternative is maybe more cautious because what if the budget run into budget problems next year and the year after that?

They've gradually reduced it.

It's a little bit of a cautionary approach because if the budget craters, then they can just put a pause on it, and they haven't jumped off of the 6.5%.

It's probably half a billion dollars a year.

And so you do it gradually, it seems more prudent and you get the credit for a tax break every year.

- I've had some people telling me I'm dead wrong on this, so let's just acknowledge that.

It still looks like, though, that the Republican legislature handed the governor a fantastic reelection issue, which is she gets the sales tax passed even though it's phased, but she demands it be immediate and they don't give into that, so she gets it both ways.

She runs on the sales tax all the way through.

That doesn't mean she's gonna win or anything, but it just seems like they might have played this wrong.

I've had others tell me you're completely wrong.

Alex, what about the politics of this, the phased versus having it happen in July?

- There's definitely the possibility of some politics being at play here.

If, for example, Laura Kelly wins in November, they could put a pause on that sales tax, maybe for budget reasons, maybe for political reasons.

If Derek Schmidt wins in November, they could continue to go through with the cuts and then claim that as a Republican victory.

Most voters have fairly recent memories, and a lot of them when it comes time to vote in November or vote four years from now are really probably aren't going to remember who put that in place and what party the governor was when that law was actually passed.

- The legislature was cautious, phased in.

I wish they weren't so cautious when I go to Dillons and see the tax on there.

But Michael Smith, really, really quickly, on the other hand, bipartisan support, the governor and the legislature basically are willing to hand over $1.3 billion to a unknown company.

We think we've heard it's Panasonic.

So that's okay.

You have this odd dynamic during very difficult times right now with inflation and everything, someone still paying 6.5% for their bread, but oh, a company's coming, here's $1 billion.

Is that this border war thing again?

- In part.

Biggest tax break in state history if it goes through.

It's not a done deal that they're coming here, whoever they are, right?

But these economic development politics, we should do a whole show on it sometime.

The political science and public policy research does not back up these claims.

A lot of incentivized companies about where they locate, it doesn't create new jobs that wouldn't have existed beforehand, but it's so powerful.

It's one of the few bipartisan issues left, and ironically, the research on this is pretty disappointing as far as how much economic development it actually generates.

- Well, I guess we can be impressed with how quickly they acted, right?

- At least they're capable of it.

- So yeah, we'll see how that plays out.

I'm gonna stick with you, Michael, and we'll have to be quick to get to some of the other fun things that occurred.

There's so much that happened this session.

I mean, it's really crazy.

Let me just ask you straight out.

There was congressional redistricting.

The big impact is on Sharice Davids and the third district.

Is she gonna be able to survive the changes that will occur with her new district?

What do you think?

- I don't know.

The new district by some measures is 50/50 Democratic and Republican.

That may be why it survived a Supreme Court challenge.

We're still waiting for a full opinion on that, but it's a much more rural district and there's a lot of controversy around the movement of Lawrence into the big first western Kansas district and cutting Wyandotte County in half.

- But it's a done deal and she'll have to try to win with fewer Democrats basically, right?

- She and apparently Amanda Adkins as well in their rematch, money is gonna pour into Kansas over this.

You won't want to turn your TV on.

You should watch this channel and not commercial TV, 'cause it's gonna be all political commercials in the fall.

- I like political TV ads.

- Okay, just that one.

Watch public TV the rest of the time.

It's just so much money is gonna pour into that race.

- So Alex, nationally we hear about it all the time, which is laws involving voting.

They were all over the place in Kansas and it's kind of a mixed bag.

There were some voting-related laws that passed.

There were some that didn't pass.

You want to tell us a bit about any of the voting laws that did or did not pass?

- One of the big ones that was considered was the number of advanced ballots that we see in Kansas.

It ultimately did not pass, but had it passed, it would've limited the number of ballot dropboxes for advanced ballots to one box per 30,000 citizens, which would have effectively cut 80 of 191 of those boxes across the state.

So it would have made it a lot more difficult for voters to turn their ballots back in.

It would have given two specific counties in Kansas seven more ballot boxes than they currently have, but that did fail, so we don't have that limit on ballot boxes.

And then the other bill, the big bill that was considered was for postmarks for election ballots after Election Day.

There was a proposal to limit the amount of time after the election that those ballots would be accepted if they had been postmarked by Election Day, and it would have limited to 7:00 p.m. on Election Day.

That did not pass, so we still have the 2017 law in place which allows for those ballots to be counted until Friday after Election Day, as long as they are postmarked on or before Election Day.

- So Tim, the Secretary of State of Kansas actually pushed back a bit.

Quickly, we only have a couple minutes.

On a lot of these what people call voter suppression laws, and actually a lot didn't happen this session, right?

- Secretary of State Scott Schwab repeatedly told the legislature and anybody who would listen to him that Kansas elections are safe and fair.

So every time you start piling on these reforms, it makes a suggestion that there's something wrong with the Kansas voting system, and I just don't see the problem.

He had to kind of tolerate his people in his own party who were advocating these changes and the same time trying to stiff arm some of it.

- That said though, the Federal and State Affairs Committee in the house devoted an entire hour of their time to testimony from a conspiracy theorist that alleged that Chinese satellites were altering Kansas elections.

- Awesome.

We'll look back on this.

You're right, early on it looked like there may be some wild legislation that's passed, and then the narrative is a bit of Scott Schwab, the Secretary of State actually coming in and really pushing back.

I'm not saying other secretary of states around the US haven't done this, but there's some that haven't.

And so that is very interesting.

We only have about a minute left.

Tim Carpenter, give me something we didn't talk about.

- The Kansas senate blocked a legislation that would allow people to legally possess these test strips that test for fentanyl that gets mixed with powerful, illegal drugs and possibly avoid overdoses and deaths.

The Kansas senate blocked that, and people will die because of that.

- Alexandra Middlewood, something we didn't talk about.

- There were two gun laws that were discussed in the Kansas state legislature that didn't get too much attention.

The first one was the Eddie Eagle Firearms Bill, which would have introduced and required firearms training for K through 12 in various forms, and the second one would be a ban on ghost guns.

A ghost gun is essentially where you order parts of a gun on the internet to be able to assemble at home, and that allows for people who purchase those to get around the Kansas firearms laws that require background checks from a licensed dealer.

- Michael Smith, very quickly.

- A couple of veto overrides failed.

Transgender athlete bans and the so-called teachers bill of rights.

There were some votes from western Kansas to sustain the vetoes.

There is still a Libertarian strain in Kansas Republican politics, and it will be interesting to see how that plays out with the abortion rights issue this August.

- And mine is the bill passed that allows alcohol at the state fair, so enjoy this fall.

That's all the time we have for this episode of IGI.

If you have any comments or suggestions for future topics, send us an email at issues@ktwu.org.

If you would like to view this program again or any previous episodes of IGI, visit us online at watch.ktwu.org.

For IGI I'm Bob Beatty.

Thanks for watching.

(upbeat music) - [Announcer] This program is brought to you with support from the Lewis H. Humphreys Charitable Trust and from The Friends of KTWU.