- Coming up on IGI, the 2025 Kansas legislative session is underway and our panel of experts is here to break down all the possibilities.

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- Hello and welcome to IGI.

I'm your host Washburn University professor of Political Science Bob Beatty.

Well, 2024 was quite a year in Kansas politics featuring an intense legislative session with a bonus special session and a record number of vetoes from Governor Laura Kelly.

Then fun elections for legislative seats.

Okay, maybe only fun for Kansas Republicans who saw their super majorities in the legislature increase.

But that was 2024 time stops for no one.

It's 2025 and the governor has given her state of the state speech.

The legislature is back in session, and as always, it's going to be busy.

Here to talk about what they'll be busy doing as our all-star panel of Kansas politics experts.

From the Kansas Reflector senior reporter Tim Carpenter.

From KSNT in Topeka is reporter and anchor, Rebecca Chung, and later will be joined by Bill Finder from Washburn University.

Thank you all for joining me.

And I wanna start right off the bat with this idea that's being proposed in the Kansas legislature to change daylight saving time.

And when I first heard about it, I, I was like, okay, well, yeah, there's been a lot of talk about that.

And then as I read the article, the actual bill that might be proposed would be to just change Kansas and to what Arizona and Hawaii do and be the third state that's on a different time zone than the entire rest of the country.

And it was a serious article and apparently a serious proposal.

And should I be taking this idea seriously?

Have you heard anything about this, - Tim?

No.

Yeah, there's, there's a bill that's been introduced and I think you should take it seriously.

I should.

I, I think part of the idea is to just model the idea on what President Trump wants to do.

And so - I, I believe it's just an attempt to, to shadow him.

But this, but what Trump wants to do is to go to permanent daylight savings.

And Kansas can do that, but it wouldn't change.

'cause under federal law, you 20 some states have done that, but they have to wait for it to change federally.

This was an idea to go to standard time like Arizona and Hawaii and be one of the only, the third state in the nation to have a different time zone.

- Well, I was laughing because we talked about this earlier, Bob, and it would be funny, I selfishly initially when I thought about it, I was like, well, you know, I hate changing my clock.

It's not the best for me.

I'm just like, I have to get adjusted to the sleep pattern, different sleep schedule.

But when we talk about going to Kansas City where we're right on that state line, going and maybe doing an interview or trying to do an interview with someone or meet someone for a meeting and being like in a completely different time period, how does that work?

You know, those are the questions I think we'd have to face when looking at this bill.

I don't - Change the clock on my car anyway.

I just wanted, I have to remember, it's an hour off.

- Let the, the, the art article I read, somebody was quoted as saying, well, they seem to have figured out in Arizona.

Well, I've been to Arizona and Phoenix does not essentially share a city with another state like Kansas City does.

And in the article again, someone sort of said, well, you know, Kansas Citians, they'll have to figure it out.

So everyone's going to a royals game.

Everyone's going to a chief scam.

Everyone who's just popping over is going to have to be figuring out the time.

If we're annoyed by changing the clocks twice a year, imagine trying to figure out what time it is in Missouri, - Right?

- 23 times a year.

How about the airport?

How about the airports in Missouri?

So what time is the plane taking off?

How about that one?

- I must say I just think there's a lot of serious issues that they could be dealing with and to make this bill number one in, the legislature seems silly.

- Yeah.

Okay.

So what Kansas could do is pass a, a bill to, as you mentioned, go along with what, what President Trump wants to do and go to permanent daylight saving.

And then that would, you know, every state would would change that.

Okay.

So before we got into the specific, get into the specific issues, you know, every session has its own character.

We've all seen a number of sessions, your senior reporter, which means you've seen a lot of sessions, Tim.

So I wanna talk about what's the, you know, what's the possible mood of this session?

And before we talk about that, let's hear what Governor Kelly and then the Senate President Ty Masterson said in terms of how they hope to maybe approach this session.

- The only way, the only way we'll move forward on any of the challenges facing us is we recognize that both parties have brought good common sense ideas to the table.

And both parties have also brought some pretty wacky ideas to the table.

Our job is to lift up the common sense, smart, reasonable ideas that will help Kansans and then meet in the middle to get it done.

I'm not asking you not to love your political party, I'm just asking you to love your state a little more.

That's the only way we build that future we all want for Kansas, - While we've certainly had our differences, I've been pleased with our ability to work together across an array of issues.

While the controversial differences certainly garner the most headlines, the vast majority of our work is bipartisan in nature.

And that's a good thing.

I hope in good faith that the spirit of working together can continue during her final two years as governor.

- Okay.

We hear these nice words, Tim, - I think it's very good for politicians to talk about bipartisanship because we really should be meeting in the middle somewhere on public policy.

But when you think about the Kansas legislature, there's no place in Kansas that is more partisan politically than the State House.

That's by design.

And the Democrats are coming forward with the ideas about trying to be more bipartisan right after they got their clock cleaned in the November elections and the Republicans bolstered their super majorities and they have less incentive to be bipartisan.

So I think the key issues that we really care the most about it, they'll be very partisan.

- I mean, - Yeah, go ahead.

- I was gonna say, I was very surprised when I did see the Republican response to the governor's state of the state because a lot of bipartisanship that they're talking about, however we do look at that expanded super majority, they could really override any veto they wanted,right ?

We're looking at 88 Republicans in the house, 31 in the Senate.

That's a lot.

So I mean, we'd really have to see how this all plays out to see where they will compromise or give them some sort of leeway to have their input.

Most - Bills are passed by big bipartisan majorities, most bills, so they can, everybody can claim bipartisanship in in the agenda, but on the key things, taxes, spending, those are gonna be partisan - Decisions.

Yeah, I mean I was, I was joking.

Rebecca's now seen a number of sessions as well, Tim, you and I have seen quite a few and we were here during the Brownback years and of course when Governor Brownback was in charge, the Republicans had not just super majorities, but conservative super majorities and Speaker Hawkins, a Republican, was asked about that and he said, yeah, the, the, you know, it didn't go as well as they wanted it to go.

And there was a reaction against that.

And he actually said, you know, we don't really, do we really want to do everything we quote unquote can do?

Do we wanna override every veto, I guess in a sense?

So is, you know, there, is that the danger of going too far with that power, don't you think?

- Certainly because there's a big chunk of the state has different ideas in the Kansas Republican Party, and I think the temptation is to represent the people who voted for you rather than the entire state as a whole.

So I think it's important think outta the box and talk to people across the aisle about public policy, but in practice that does not happen a lot on the things that you really care about.

- So do you, do you think they'll be able to, to get together on some things?

- Absolutely.

The majority of things, - I think so.

And I think we hear a lot more by, by about bipartisanship when we're about to head into a gubernatorial election.

Right.

And some people may be up for, you know, on the chopping block.

And so like Tim said, there is a large portion of the state that is a bit more in the middle, you know, moderate.

And so you do wanna appeal to those voters as well.

And I think we are hearing a lot more about bipartisanship.

We'll have to see how that actually looks this year.

- That yes, that's a really interesting point because it's not really clear, you know, what would reward a gubernatorial candidate on the Republican side in terms of, you know, they could just block everything from the governor, a candidate, someone who wanted to run.

I'm against everything in order maybe to set themselves up for a primary win.

But that, I think you're right, that may not be as popular in a general election that will, in a state that will, will elect democratic governors.

So it's not a slam dunk, I think going into a gubernatorial election just to say we oppose the governor in everything.

In fact, you know that in this past election there was TV ads for Republicans praising gov working with Governor Kelly.

- Yeah.

'cause he wanted to come across as bipartisan, but some those are campaign ads.

Good lord.

Good thing you don't have to vet all of those.

- Well let, let's get into a, a specific issue then.

And this, the subject is taxes.

So let's hear from Senate President Ty Masterson on the subject of taxes - That must begin with property tax relief and reform.

Property taxes can drive our seniors from their homes and prevent younger Kansans from enjoying the dream of home ownership.

For too long, it's just been a political talking point, we must act in the Senate.

We will again work on a constitutional amendment to put a lid on the outrageous processes that drive tax hikes and pursue reform to bring more accountability to a broken system.

Unfortunately, the governor has at this point pledged to block property tax relief in 2025.

I sincerely hope she will reconsider and join us in bringing more tax relief to Kansans.

- Okay, so we'll get to to property taxes very soon.

But the other tax issue came up last year and that is this idea of a flat tax.

The governor vetoed it, it ended up in all the negotiations, but they ended up with two tax rates.

But from what I hear, there's still a lot of interest on the Republican side to try to keep cutting down to one tax rate.

So is, do you see that happening, Rebecca?

- I think right now the big focus is gonna be property taxes this year.

And like Masterson said, that constitutional amendment that they're trying to move forward with, I think from what we saw last year, there is a lot more, you know, pushback when it comes to flat tax.

I don't think they see that getting through to the governor, but then again now they have their expanded super majority.

If they wanted to, they could override a veto on any sort of proposal that came up in that regard.

So we'll have to see.

But I think the big push this year is gonna be for property tax relief.

And that's not just on the Republican side, that's on the democrat side as well.

'cause they know that that is something that their constituents are also talking about.

- What about the good old flat tax?

- So I think Senator Masterson, the Senate president is, he was one of the big instigators of that.

And why give up on an idea that he thinks is worthwhile and good?

I think he has designs on perhaps running for governor soon, so why not keep punching away at that, that notion.

And so you could make it part of your campaign appeal to have a single rate and, and, and do that perhaps as governor later on.

But Rebecca's right, the, the, the, the top line is about property taxes or in this legislative session.

- Alright, let's hear what Governor Kelly said about taxes.

- For instance, there was a proposal to slash the state corporate income tax to zero.

That is a non-starter.

We, we've seen that movie before.

We know how it ends.

We know what happened to our schools, to our roads, and to our reputation.

We must stay on the path to prosperity as we move through the rest of the 21st century.

Now with all that said, let me add a caveat.

While I would prefer that we postpone discussions about taxes until next session.

When we will have a better handle on the full impact of the tax cuts that we passed last year.

I will consider proposals to modify our tax structure that pay for themselves and don't threaten our state's long-term financial health.

- Well, as we heard the governor said the flat tax seems to be a non-starter, but a lot of talk about property taxes.

We're joined here now by Bill Fiander from Washburn University and we're all gonna get into this, but, but Bill...property taxes.

We've talked about this before, is are we talking a lot of money?

Because recently, well January the sales tax on food was eliminated.

And that's something that really shows up, you know, when I go to Dillon's anyway, but is is wha t they're talking about with possible property tax relief really gonna make that big a difference?

- Let's use last year's example.

I guess it's this year's now for what they did with the property tax in the legislature last year.

They, they increased the exemption, I think it's $75,000 now, so on your property, so you're not paying any property tax on their first 75,000.

It used to be 42, so almost doubled it.

That ended up being about a six, when you, when it comes right down to maybe $6, $7 a month savings for the property owner.

You know, that's, that's again, that can get swallowed up in your mortgage and your escrow and all that.

And so you may or may not see that.

But I will say, you know, even with that property taxes overall did go up because there's many local taxing subdivisions that have a mill levy.

That, and, and, and by virtue of the property value increases people's taxes.

There's three levers.

There's a mill levy, there is a access rate and there is the property value.

And the, and the locals really only have control over that mill levy, of which 90, almost 90% of the tax bill is typically local.

The the other 10%, the state is kind of taken for the schools and sending it back to the local.

So 99% is all local services.

Locals still control 90% of that mill levy of the tax bill.

So the state's coming at it one or two ways.

They're either going to try and cap the amount of that, that one of those other levers, the property value cap property value, taxable property value, I think they've started at 3% with a constitutional amendment and, and then they do have some mill levees they can mess around with for the schools.

And, and, and if they do, if they lower their mill levy for the schools, they'll have to go find, they can't just cut schools.

So they have to go find sales tax or income tax money in their general fund to make schools whole.

- So Becky, you mentioned this constitutional amendment, you're, you think that's a route that they, the legislature may go?

- Yes, that's definitely something that they're aggressively looking at passing this year.

And I know there is some pushback on that and how that could potentially, you know, kind of prove to have some disparities across different parts of there or people that own different properties.

However, I think that Democrats are willing to work with them on that and close that gap.

They get a bit more equitable is what we are hearing from house minority leader Woodard.

So that could be something that they look into and actually push through this year.

- I just wanna make clear that just like you said, a lot of the property tax goes to cities, counties, school districts.

Yeah, local.

The state does have some property tax collections.

There's a 20 mill levee for Kansas public schools K through 12 public schools.

And then there's a one and a half mills for the construction and maintenance of state buildings of all kinds universities and what have you.

So the legislature could basically wipe out those property tax mill levies, but they would have to replace it with sales or income tax revenue.

So you're, you're lowering the property taxes.

It's a shift.

It's not a reduction in taxes is what the legislature can do on its own behalf.

Constitutional amendment is a different idea.

They're reaching down into local government and restraining their ability to operate financially.

So it would be like the federal government coming down to the legislature and telling the legislature, you only have XX opportunities to generate revenue.

The legislature would hate that.

So local units of government are gonna fight like crazy against this constitutional amendment because they don't want that kind of control from the state.

Right.

- And and realistically speaking, if you look at inflation the last three or four years, 6%, 7%, I think it was four, almost 4% last year.

And they, and they cap your property tax at 3% as a locality.

How are you gonna pay people?

How are you, you have all the cost of living and the, and the most of local government is personnel.

So salaries, union contracts, law enforcement, emergency personnel, taking care of roads, all has that, all of that has gone up with inflation.

More than 3% I will tell a lot more than 3%.

And so they are, they being the localities, cities and counties are gonna be incredibly harmed if it's capped.

Certainly that at that number.

- So what we have to keep our eye on this session is a of course what gets passed, amendment whatever.

But then also what happens to that shift?

Where's that money coming from if you're tapping or if you're cutting the mill levy.

But if it's for schools, that'll be sort of the the second level that that we're gonna have to really keep our eye on because it's not just, hey, cut it and oh great, everyone's happy.

There's gonna be ramifications.

Moving on to some other issues.

I, you know, I think, but you can tell me if I'm wrong, that the, the school vouchers may come back.

Let's hear what Ty Masterson said about that.

- Within just a few years, nearly half the states in our union, we'll have significantly expanded educational opportunity for their children.

Given how closely tied our economy is to education.

We don't have the luxury of remaining still while other states sprint ahead.

- That one's interesting because to your point, Rebecca, they could just pass it.

Governor Kelly could veto it, they could override the veto.

But we're, when we get into schools and education in Kansas, it it's not that simple.

Do you, do you see that - Happening?

I think there's problem passing vouchers generally, no matter how you want to characterize it as school choice or what have you.

Yeah.

Liberty interest because there's people that want to protect the local public schools.

- Yeah.

- Just like they want to, they want good highway funding, they want good funding of their local public schools.

And when you start taking revenue out of the system and funneling it to parochial or church schools, private schools, the public schools could suffer.

You know, there would be a student drain that's a financial drain.

They, people private schools could be out there recruiting athletes and, and debaters and what have you and for their schools.

So it's a big change, potentially a big change.

And some of these local small school districts in rural Kansas are hanging on by a thread anyway, by enrollment.

The other thing is, I think, I don't think there's a private school in 60 Kansas counties.

There's a lot of counties out there that have no interest in private schools.

Rebecca, - I'd have to agree with Tim, where you may not see as much Republican support when it comes to the issue of school vouchers.

Especially talking about those schools out in rural Kansas that are struggling.

So for that they may not be able to get something through.

- Yeah.

And you know, we have to do it.

The, the governor, well, let's hear it.

The governor mentioned Medicaid expansion.

Let's hear how she said it.

At the state of the state.

- Now I proposed this the last six years and I am proposing it again this year.

Let's be honest, the only reason we haven't expanded Medicaid is partisan politics.

Over the past six years, all the horror myths around Medicaid expansion have been debunked.

And all of our states surrounding us have expanded.

The one myth that continues to linger here in Kansas is that expansion is too expensive.

That is patently false.

- Well, yeah, we've been doing this for a while now.

I I don't think there's gonna be Medicaid expansion, but what's interesting is in watching time Masterson, the Republicans and President is he, and several times mentioned other states are doing this when he is talking about business or school vouchers.

And Kansas is now on medical marijuana and Medicaid expansion.

It's, you know, if it keeps it up, it'll be the last state standing saying hell no.

- Yeah.

- And yet Masterson is citing these other, oh, other states are doing this.

And it goes back to sort of Kansas political culture.

What's going on, Tim, that Kansas, you know, so far we're just sort of being surrounded by other states that are willing to do these things, but Kansas won't.

- I think Governor Kelly's got a point about political considerations when it comes to Medicaid expansion and expanding the number of people in Medicaid, the, the lower income people, and the same with medical medicinal marijuana.

I think those policies are popular in Kansas and the republican leadership in the State House say no.

And governor in Kansas can't just do it by fiat.

She needs a legislature to come along with her.

And for now they're not buying it.

- Yeah.

And it's many Republican states, they actually have gone along with either Democrat - For a modest investment of, of x number of millions in Kansas, hundreds of millions of dollars in, in federal dollars would come into the medical system in Kansas.

Rebecca what - I mean, this is something that we've always seen opposition toward every session.

Yeah.

And then last year after they had that hearing for the first time Yeah, several so quickly was that shut down?

Even now speaking with Speaker Hawkins and you know, he really does not like that idea.

- Yes.

Right.

We talk to - Him, he shut that down quick.

He's like, look, I'm gonna, if we do it every year, it's not happening this year.

So even if there are reasons on, you know, on one side to expand Medicaid, especially with what we've seen in the past and, you know, people being unenrolled after covid, I, I still don't think that we're gonna have the right people supporting it for it to go through.

- We, we need, and Nixon goes to China type type thing to go on.

Mm.

Tim, we got a little, just a little time left.

What's, when an issue or topic or something obviously we haven't discussed that you think might be interesting this session session?

- Some kinda interest to see what Attorney general Kris Kobach and some of his allies do to lay the groundwork so Kansas law enforcement officers can be trained to help ICE the immigration authorities, federal authorities to run around the state arresting people that may not have the proper documentation to live in America.

- Yeah, - Becca, - Initially, I was gonna say it would be like a big surprise to see if Medicaid expansion moves forward sometime this year, but then also medical marijuana, some sort of bill for that.

Because still not a lot of hunger from Republican leaders on that issue.

We don't know if they could have a plan come out this year.

And I think this was the year that a lot of, you know, advocates were thinking that could happen.

I don't know.

- We'll see.

Yeah.

Bill, is there anything you're looking at?

- I was just gonna say that, that that win when we say medical marijuana in Kansas, after listening to some of the, the newly elected legislators that that window is, is like a, was like a crack.

It's like, it just barely open and it's, it's so limited.

So when we say it, you know, we generalize, but when they say it, it's, it's, it's two different things.

But yeah, I would, I would watch that to see if, if a, if a toe could get in in the door there.

Even a sniff.

Right?

Yes.

- Bit of sniff I, I'm dubious, but, but for me, as I've mentioned we've all talked about is, is I'm, I am curious how the governor's race in 2026 might impact how some people are approaching this session.

That's just something we will just have to keep our eye on.

Well that's all the time we have for this episode of IGI.

If you have any comments or suggestions for future topics, send us an email at issues@ktwu.org.

If you'd like to view this program again or any previous episodes of IGI, visit us online@watch.ktwu.org.

And for IGI, I'm Bob Beatty and I thank our wonderful guests.

Thanks for watching - This program on KTWUU is underwritten by the friends of KTWU.