- American lives and routines have been upended by COVID and here we are 18 months later.

What has changed?

Where does the nation and Kansas stand?

Will we ever get past this?

Discussion on all this and more will be featured on this episode of "IGI".

Stay with us.

(upbeat musical tones) - [Female Announcer] KNEA, empowering educators, so that educators can empower Kansas students.

- [Male Announcer] This program is brought to you with support from the Lewis H. Humphreys Charitable Trust and from the friends of KTWU.

(upbeat music) - Hello and welcome to "IGI".

Over 4.5 million deaths worldwide, over 664,000 deaths in America, and over 159,000 new cases per day in America.

This is the current COVID world that we live in.

It's been 18 months since COVID turned routines, education, life events, and American lives upside down.

What has changed over this past 18 months?

All of us hear... "I can't wait for things to get back to normal".

WIll, we have to start thinking of adapting to a new normal as we proceed down this path through COVID?

Here to provide us with an update on the state of our community while we battle the COVID pandemic, are Dr. Erin Locke, Shawnee County Health Officer and Dusty Nichols, Incident Commander, Shawnee County Response Team for COVID-19 and Director of Emergency Management.

Thank you both so much for joining us today on "IGI".

- Thank you.

- Thank you for having us.

- Thank you and Dusty, it's so good to have you back here.

I know last time we had you here was probably about 18 months ago.

Wasn't it?

- I think I reviewed what we talked about last time, when Dr. Pezzino went on and I were on in April.

- [Val] Yes.

- Oh my gosh.

- Yeah, so it's been awhile.

- Absolutely and I know at that time, I thought for sure when we brought Dusty back, that things might be a little different.

We might be past the COVID pandemic, but you know, here we are.

New delta variant is here.

So, that's why we're here today to talk a little bit and I thought I'd go and start with you, Dr. Locke, you know, like we said, 18 months later and we're still into the COVID-19 pandemic.

We have the new variant that has come around.

Can you tell us a little bit about what the state of the community is like right now?

- Yeah.

You know, over the past 18 months, it's really been up and down, hasn't it?

- Yes.

- There's been moments even earlier this summer when things were looking really great and most of us were returning, even myself and the health department.

We were returning to something that looked a little more like our pre-pandemic normal, but as you mentioned, the Delta Variant arrived and that really changed things again.

So, we're currently in the midst of a surge that's related to the Delta Variant and, you know, to summarize, our cases have increased back into that high zone and we've had to respond to it with putting some mitigation measures back in place in different areas of the community and our hospitals have filled again with really sick, sick patients and so, that's kind of the state that we are in right now is that we're back in that wave.

- Right.

So not a huge change then from where we were back towards the beginning of all this.

- That's correct.

- Wow.

You know, so speaking of the Delta Variant, what makes the Delta Variant different from the COVID-19 pandemic?

What makes a little more dangerous, I guess?

- There's a couple things about it that we attribute to why it's more concerning for us now.

The first and kind of how I describe it is that it appears to be a little stickier.

When it enters into your nose or your throat, it's able to really latch on and infect you in a more efficient way than the past variants and then the second thing about it is that it then can replicate itself much, much faster than before.

So, you can become more infectious at a higher level and really pass that on to other individuals.

So, it's just become a more efficient version, if you would think of it that way.

- That's what it sounds like and the vaccinations that we're all taking for COVID-19, does that help out with the variant and mitigate some of the symptoms if you were to be able to catch it?

- Oh, absolutely.

From the beginning, one of the things we've really looked at with the vaccines is whether or not it will prevent you from getting sick enough to have to be hospitalized or to even die from the virus and it's still maintaining that level of protection for most individuals.

We're more likely to experience a few mild symptoms with this variant as compared to the previous versions, but it is still really holding that line as far as hospitalizations and death.

So, from that standpoint, I'm really thankful for our vaccines.

- Yeah.

So, in the long run, encouraging everyone to get vaccinated.

So, even if they do get sick, it sounds like it's not as bad as if you were not vaccinated.

- That's correct.

And we have seen some individuals who are still hospitalized even after they've been vaccinated.

For our community, that tends to be older individuals who may have some immunocompromising sort of conditions, but even so, when they're in the hospital, they tend to be doing better than those individuals who are not vaccinated.

So, even if you get sick enough that you have to receive hospitalized care, it's still protecting you even there.

- And speaking of vaccinations, Dusty, I know we talked a little bit earlier about all of this has become a little bit politicized, you know, and there's been a distrust and what is being said, there are a lot of people very hesitant still on getting the vaccination.

What do you think about that?

What are your thoughts?

- That's a big question.

- [Val] Yes, it is.

(women laughing) There's a basis for people to not trust vaccinations and we understand that and I think everybody who works in the health care industry or emergency management...

I've seen that in our history.

So, there's not a...

I don't think it's necessarily a surprise.

It's unfortunate, because we've come so much further with, you know, being transparent and showing how the things work and so, I wish there was a way to cut through that, but there's not, unfortunately.

We stand by ready to answer questions and we will continue to say get your vaccinations.

We were in line early, quickly.

So, I find it unfortunate that that's happening, but at the same time, I understand, but let us help you understand.

Let us help you get there to where you understand that you need the shot to curve this thing finally and to kinda go with that, there's many different reasons.

I mean, obviously, there's the mistrust, but there's also just the apathetic, you know, I'm not worried about it, which is incredibly dangerous right now and then there's people who are truly cannot get the shot, because of some sort of allergy or their doctor's recommending that they don't.

So, as we go forward, we remember that.

So, just be kind.

- [Val] Yes.

- Be kind and try to help each other and if you want information, if you need education, reach out.

- Yeah.

So, the importance of communication and researching and talking and working your way through the questions that you may have, if you're indifferent towards it.

- I would add that many individuals on their own level are weighing the risks versus the benefits and I think for some, part of that calculation is that they're not necessarily going to come into contact with the virus.

So, they're sort of voluntarily stepping up for risk that they perceive with the vaccine.

I would say that the Delta Variant certainly has changed that calculation.

It is so widespread across the country, but also in our community, that if you'd like to live without mitigation, then you basically are guaranteeing yourself that you will come into contact with that virus and so, now that risk benefit really changes, because we know that many of the concerns that individuals have about the vaccine, actually, you see those as side effects from coming into contact with the virus and at a much higher and less controlled sort of way and so, that really has changed and that's what I'd encourage people to think about when they're weighing that risk benefit for themselves.

- Very good words of advice and let's say that you aren't vaccinated and you get sick and you battle COVID.

You get better and then you say, I really want to go ahead and get vaccinated.

How much time has to happen between the time of your COVID battle to the time you get the vaccination.

- Really, none at all.

The experts recommend that you just complete your isolation, your 10 days, and then go ahead and get the vaccine.

So, really don't have to wait.

- Sounds good.

Sounds good and we are upon flu season.

I know that's coming up here soon and probably questions will come up.

Can I get both vaccinations?

Is that something that we could do?

- [Erin] Yes.

- Okay.

- Previously, they had separated them, but they took away that concern and we can get both at the same time and in fact, we plan to offer both, because we know that individuals will want to get both and we wanna make it as easy as possible.

- And related to boosters, tell us a little more about the boosters that are coming available.

- Yeah, so we will expect to see some more information about the booster shots and so, really what they are intended for is that over time, the antibodies and sort of your body's immune response starts to wane over time.

It kind of forgets a little bit what it's supposed to be doing and so, you get that booster vaccine and it does what it says.

It boosts you back up to that previous level.

We know that the FDA is meeting this Friday on the 17th to review whether or not boosters will be recommended for our country and within that, are there specific people who they'll be recommending it for?

So, we'll expect to see some more news around that.

Once the FDA has given their recommendations, it then we'll go to the CDC committee to determine that further and so, over the next couple weeks, we'll have further developments.

- Sounds good and related to those boosters, I know everybody that you had those three types of vaccinations and will the boosters be required for all of them or is it a specific, you know, Moderna Pfizer, whichever one, it was that you may have received.

Do you have to get a booster based upon which type of vaccination you received?

- Yeah, that's a great question.

Right now, we are expecting it for the MRNA vaccines, which are the Pfizer and the Moderna.

It's possible that they will reduce that even further and they'll say just the Pfizer or just the Moderna and so, that will sort of remain to be seen when FDA meets, but that's what we're looking right now.

- All right.

Well, so, you know, we talked a little bit about the general state of the community and where do you see, Dusty, where do you see us going here in the next several months?

You know, will it stay the same?

Will more people, if more people get vaccinated, do things get better?

Do we think things will continue to mutate?

I mean, how, you know, what... - Yeah, this is...

Going back to the very beginning, we analyzed this and thought, okay, with based on previous historic events, pandemics have happened repeatedly and we were condemned to repeat things.

So, and nature's just nature.

So, we thought when we went into this, and unfortunately, it's becoming pretty true, 18 to 24 months, and here we are about 18 months in.

So, going forward, we're looking at the variants.

We're watching those things and we don't know.

Depends on how they react and how we react.

This is why it's so important to get those vaccinations and wear your mask and control the spread and do all those things, 'cause this can go on.

It's kind of up to us in a nutshell.

- Yes.

- If we keep going like we're going, but the cases kind of plateauing out now, but we saw the spike with delta over the past couple of weeks and if that keeps happening, then this will keep happening.

- [Val] Yes.

- If we don't take some sort of action to stop it, control it, whether it's vaccinations, wear your mask, social distance, wash your hands, all the things we've been talking about forever and not only that, boost your immune system.

Eat your vegetables, eat healthy, go for walks, you know, doing those things.

This can go on and it probably will go on for a long, long time, just like any other flu.

We have vaccinations for any other kind of sickness, but I don't think, Doc, you can correct me if I'm wrong.

This is gonna be around forever.

It's how we control it and we are learning how to do that now and so is our community.

- When we look at it from a pandemic viewpoint, you've mentioned sort of, there's a future out there where it'll still be around, but it won't be pandemic.

We won't be as concerned about it.

That is still a ways out, but what we do have now are the tools.

We really...

The vaccine is very, very good and if our community were to be vaccinated and protected, we could see a pretty, sort of that normal life again, sort of what we are starting to see over the summer, but as Dusty also said, there's a lot of unknowns and part of that is human behavior and what we decide to do.

Another is that we are just one small community in a very big world and this is a pandemic.

It affects the world and there may be new developments that we'll have to face in the future, but we're very fortunate that we live in this country and we have the vaccine at our disposal and our resource, so... - Yes.

- If our community increases our vaccination rate, I think we'll see a sooner return to normal.

- And something that will help increase that vaccination rate, too, I know will be the availability of vaccinations for children under 12 and do you have any updates related to that?

- We're looking at its availability from age five to 11, the Pfizer.

We're starting to think potentially as early as late October, maybe November, December.

You know, those timelines have shifted just a little bit, but I am very hopeful that by the time we approach the end of the year, we will already be vaccinating younger children.

- That is wonderful.

I have two, well, actually I have a 14 and 11-year-old and she's just right on that cusp and I'm like, no!

But I'm very happy to hear that we'll be able to see something here soon for those children, as well.

You know, we're, as we talked about, we're sitting in the same type of situation we were when the pandemic first started and moving to hospitals, we hear often about the overcrowding of hospitals and now the prioritization of care that's kind of happening.

There are people that have to go to a hospital that may not have COVID, but are being turned away and possibly dying even of a condition that could have been treated, but couldn't be, because there were no beds available and what can you speak on related to the overcrowding of hospitals?

- Would you like to?

- I could just say that the shortage of hospital workers, by the way, before I even start talking about hospital workers, the amazing job that they do cannot be discussed enough on how solid of work they're doing and the very little credit they're actually getting.

I know we say we support you.

Really think about what those people are going through.

- They're putting themselves into danger every day.

They're putting out families at risk every day and yeah, I absolutely agree.

- And what they're witnessing on a daily basis and the frustration they must feel literally going hands-on when they know this is preventable and I can't even imagine working in the hospital day-to-day under those conditions and because of, I think part of it, because of that is they don't wanna do it anymore.

So, the shortages for residents or hospital workers in general and then, you know, during the course of the year, the criticism and just sometimes hatred that they got towards them, just for trying to do their job.

They leave their jobs.

So, it's no wonder there's a shortage.

And then applying the other things that are happening across the country, the traveling nurses, they're going for a high dollar.

So, they're going to other states and to earn a good paycheck for doing their job and then leaving other places shortage with hospital workers.

So, we have resource shortages, which was gonna affect direct care and I'll let Dr. Locke mention that path.

It's really troublesome to me, 'cause this is the path we're on and we gotta stop.

- Yeah.

The hospital situation is sort of one example of how we're really connected with the rest of our country.

The reason that we don't have enough hospital beds is because we don't have enough staff.

I always say like a bed in the hospital is just a bed in a hospital.

It becomes a hospital bed when you actually put us, you know, the nurse with it and the doctor with it and everybody else who's working in the hospital and what we have seen is that we just don't have enough people to really expand those hospital beds and admit everybody who needs to be admitted and as Dusty talked about, we are actually losing some of our own staff, because there's need in other states, you know, other communities in our country and so, they're able to go there and respond to the need there in a way that, you know, we haven't been able to pay for them to stay here and so, I know a lot of the community sort of learned last year, like what it looks like when the hospitals are not doing well, right?

They're putting beds in waiting rooms and those sorts of things.

They're not doing electives.

I really do want to emphasize that although it looks different this time, it is the same situation.

We are as we were when they were putting beds in waiting rooms and they were not doing electives.

It is the same now and I think that because we sort of learned it one way last year, we see what's happening now and we don't think it's that bad.

It really is.

It really is and that's one thing I'd really like to let our community know is that we are there and so, when we talk about these crisis standards of care, you know, there's ways that we can change how we provide care and it is the same.

We provide the same level of care to the people who are in our building.

When we get to crisis and I'm not saying that that's where we are.

I'm not saying that, but when you get to crisis, that's when the care that you provide is not going to be as good as it was before, because you simply do not have the resources and so, what you were talking about, the other physician talking about that in the state of Kansas, we're sort of teetering there.

We don't want to be there.

We need to take the actions now to prevent that from happening, because it's affecting everybody, not just COVID positive patients.

It's heart attacks and it's people in car accidents and all of those things that we need hospitals for.

- You know, and speaking of taking action now, when we were in this, in the beginning, everything shut down.

Stores, schools, everything and we aren't there right now.

So, I'm just curious, the situation that we're in now, what kind of feedback can you provide to people?

What can we do now, given the fact that we can still go eat at a restaurant, we can still go shopping.

We're going to school.

We're going to work.

What kind of precautions can we take?

Dusty, did you wanna... - We sound like a broken record.

- I know and I think it was go ahead and say it again.

- Wear your masks, social distance.

- Yeah.

- Yes.

- Sanitize where you can, all those things and even if you are vaccinated, wear your mask.

It just helps.

I mean, just look at the flu numbers from last year, they were so much lower than any time before.

I won't get into the whole mask discussion, 'cause that's... - No, I understand.

It is one of those things where you can do pretty much anything, just protect yourself.

Respect the threat that's out there and that delta threat is not a joke.

People are dying.

In fact, I forget the percentage exactly, 'cause it changes daily, but I feel safe saying most of the people who end up going to the hospitals with COVID right now are unvaccinated and the ones that are die is the highest percentage.

There's no question.

- Many times over.

Many times over.

- And I think some of it is that almost false start, if you will, in August, where everybody, okay, we're free and it's right at the beginning of summer and then delta showed up and said, no, we're not done yet.

Unfortunately.

- Yeah.

- It's just unfortunate that we're not paying attention like we were before, because we're just tired.

- [Val] Yeah.

- We're all tired.

- [Val] That is a lot of it.

Everybody's tired.

- But you can make some simple choices.

One of the biggest ones is that if you're going to go somewhere, choose outdoors, if possible.

First of all, make sure you're vaccinated and take your mask, but outdoors, many of the things that we want to do, the ventilation is so good that you can do it outside and not have concerns with that.

If you're going to be indoors, really assess how crowded is it?

Are they people that you know, that maybe it's just your household or is it a lot of different strangers?

And you have no idea what their risk level is for you.

So, you can still go about your life as long as you're taking those sorts of calculations into account.

- Sounds good and I know that we have fall season upon us and you know, you have the cooler months, you have the Thanksgiving and the Christmas and everything coming around and knowing that we'll probably be entering the holiday season while we're still battling this in this current situation, what kind of advice can you give people who are thinking, yay, we get to get family back together again.

What would you recommend for those family gatherings?

- You know, the primary, of course, again, broken record, but the primary thing is the vaccination status of those people, because if you're all vaccinated in your family, the likelihood that you're going to have any sort of spread amongst those people is pretty low.

Most of us have kids.

Most of us have little ones running around in our families that can't be vaccinated yet.

So, let's protect them by getting all of the adults vaccinated.

Short of that, testing, you know, that whole "know before you go".

Like if you know you're all going to get together for Thanksgiving, ask everyone to get tested and if they're positive, don't go.

Don't give it to your loved ones.

So, that would be a couple things you can do.

- Sounds good.

In just a few seconds, Dusty, did you have any last words you wanted to say?

- No.

I just wanna really encourage people to understand the position we're in as a community right now.

We are not good.

We're not done, so we're not good to go.

We really need to wear our mask.

We really need to get vaccinated.

We need to be kind, as well.

- [Val] Absolutely.

- Everybody's dealing with something and has dealt with a lot over the past year.

Some people are just tired and they're just done.

That doesn't mean you can be mean to them or vice versa.

So, I think part of it is being kind and helping each other and get educated and share good information and do your research.

Just because the headline says something doesn't necessarily mean that you know the entire thing.

- [Val] Absolutely.

- And I know I said that a couple times, but it's a real problem.

We have an information problem.

We have a... To go along with the pandemic, it's just a lot.

It's just a lot for everybody.

- Definitely, definitely.

Well, thank you so much, Dusty, and thank you, Dr. Erin Locke, both of you for being here today to talk with us.

I so greatly appreciate your time and that's all the time we have for this episode of "IGI".

If you have any comments or suggestions for future topics, send us an email at issues@ktwu.org.

If you would like to view this program again or any previous episodes of "IGI", visit us online at watch.ktwu.org.

Thank you for watching and stay safe.

(upbeat music) - [Female Announcer] KNEA, empowering educators, so that educators can empower Kansas students.

- [Male Announcer] This program is brought to you with support from the Lewis H. Humphreys Charitable Trust and from the friends of KTWU.