- Coming up next on IGI, we feature a historical look at the lives of women in the service, and we're honored to have the family members of women who served in the Great War and World War II with us today.

Stay with us.

(upbeat music) - [Announcer1] KNEA, empowering educators so that educators can empower Kansas students.

- [Announcer2] This program is brought to you with support from a Lewis H Humphreys Charitable Trust and from The Friends of KTWU.

(upbeat music) - Hello and welcome to IGI.

I'm your host, LeTiffany Obozele.

The past hasn't been easy for women veterans often fighting for equal treatment assignments and benefits, but trailblazers have stepped up to the challenge and present day, we see more women in the service fighting for our country, Indiana Hunt-Martin and Grace Banker are a couple of these brave trailblazers.

Their names have been featured in nationally known documentaries, national news, and are part of monuments erected across the country to recognize their bravery in the Great War and World War II.

I am honored to present the family members of Indiana and Grace today.

Joining me now are Carolyn Tembie granddaughter of Grace Banker who served with the United States Army Signal Corps in the Great War and whose grandmother was featured in the documentary "The Hello Girls."

I also have with me, Janice Martin, daughter of Indiana Hunt-Martin, who served with the United States Army in World War II with 6888th Central Postal Directory Battalion and whose mother was featured in the documentary "SixTripleEight".

And we also feature the filmmaker for the documentaries, "The Hello Girls"", and "SixTripleEight", James Theres.

Thank you all today for joining me on IGI.

So Jim, I want to start with you.

You've produced obviously a couple of powerful documentaries that are documenting the lives of women.

Who've helped pave the way for future women service members.

What created this passion for you to document their lives and "The Hello Girls" and "SixTripleEight".

- Yeah.

Thank you, LeTiffany, for having me and the question.

So what the honest answer is luck.

I came to filmmaking really by accident later in life.

And my first film was when I made out of Mississippi, a 30 minute film and documentary, and when I was done with it and it went to different film festivals and Mississippi Public Television.

I thought, wow, this is really cool.

I want to do more of this.

And that's how I stumbled upon "The Hello Girls" first.

And then later on the "SixTripleEight", truly by accident.

Didn't I, it was a web search internet search for "The Hello Girls".

I emailed the author of the book, Elizabeth Cobbs, and she called me that afternoon.

And we set up appointments July of maybe 2017, 2018.

And then as I was traveling the country with "The Hello Girls," people kept coming up to me and asked me if I had heard about these black World War II women.

Well people are always telling me they got a great story, so I didn't pay much attention to it.

Except on the third time when I was in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, my home state, and someone came up to me and said, yep, there did you hear about these women?

And she said, oh, and by the way, one of them lives here in Milwaukee, Anna Mae Robertson.

So that's when I said, I gotta, I gotta look at this.

And that's how the two stories kind of happened.

They stacked on top of one another.

And I'm fond of saying that I was very fortunate and blessed to catch lightning in a bottle twice.

- Oh, very nice so - Yeah you say you kind of stumbled on both of these stories by luck.

How have "SixTripleEight" and "The Hello Girls" impacted your life?

- Oh gosh.

Well, they changed my life to be honest.

And so I served in the army as well, and I served with women.

And so I had a chance while I was going through these stories to revisit my service and to reflect on those women that I served with.

And, you know, truthfully, when I think back to those times, I hope that I treated those women with as much respect as I do now as an older adult.

And I think I did, and I hope I did, you know, Army's kind of course rough life, but I thought about the women I served with a lot and that's how it came back to me.

And I continue to think about them.

And then you get really touched and emotional too.

With when you meet the family members, when you meet the women, Carolyn and I have cried several times watching her mother's part and Janice and I had the great fortune to watch the "SixTripleEight" in her home, on her mother's birthday.

So yeah, it, everything in my life has been impacted.

And I'm so grateful and thankful.

- Well, Janice and Carolyn, you hear that these films help change a Jim's lives.

I noticed that both of your relatives each appear on the film posters, which is a unique coincidence since he tells us he heard about these stories at different times.

What do you know about these photos?

And I'll start with you Carolyn.

- Yes.

So the photo that Jim had for the documentary was actually taken from, we have a photograph it's six women on top of that, actually that photograph was taken on top of the AT&T Building in New York City.

And the story behind that.

So my grandmother, Grace Banker is in there along with other women that were belonged to the first unit that went over to France.

And what's interesting is the story behind that is they actually were participating in drills on top of the AT&T building in the middle of February and March.

So you'll notice they had trench coats on the, in the pictures.

And so while they're posing for this, I'm thinking of how very cold and wet they must've been while they were posing for these photographs.

And so that's the history behind that picture.

- Janice, what about you?

What do you know about the photo that was used for the "SixTripleEight?"

- Oh, when I first saw the photo, I think I must have was, I was around 11 or 12.

My mother came in from work and said, someone had told her that her photo, her a picture of her was in the encyclopedia.

So of course back then, in order to get the encyclopedias, you had to go to the grocery store and save up the little tickets and coupons and get an encyclopedia every week.

So we finally got the one with her in it, and we saw the photo of her in front of the, a boys school in England.

And when she pointed, I said, oh my goodness.

I was telling everyone my mom's in the encyclopedia.

And then that was really the end of it.

But I found out later that that's the iconic photo that is everywhere.

And mom is standing right there.

- Well, Jim, obviously you probably had a lot of different photos to choose from when you were making these films.

Why did you choose these two particular photos for the film posters?

- Yeah.

So the great thing about that is, is that is immediately when I saw the two photos, I said, that's it, those are the photos I want to use.

They were just, they both tell such a descriptive story.

As Carolyn mentioned, the trench coats and the women, they were bonded.

And then of the one, the one lady, I believe her name is Tootsie Fresnel.

Oh, she standing there in the front with her arms crossed, not in defiance, but just in, in, in pride.

I said, yeah, this is the picture.

And then you're right.

There were a lot to choose from.

And the "SixTripleEight" photo, this goes all the way back to 2012.

When I served as a Public Affairs Officer at the Jacksonville VA Medical Center, that picture that's photo was up on the wall at the Jacksonville VA. And back then I said, I had, no, I remember standing there in front of him and said, who are these women?

You know, I didn't know who they were.

And then sure enough, some five, six years later I found out exactly who they were.

And so when I saw the photo, I said, that's the one I gotta have.

And that's how it came about by accident.

But I know how to like, I knew it when I saw it.

- Okay.

Well, thank you for sharing that with us, Janice, you kind of talked about how the film posters impacted you.

What was it like and what did you learn about your mother since the documentaries came out?

- I've learned a lot more about my mother since the documentary.

And I said, I wish I had have had an opportunity to get more involved with knowing my mother.

I know her as my mother, but knowing this woman that left home defiant, not really defiant, but very strong and very, how would you say determined to change things for herself during a time when life was really difficult for her.

So she took off and knowing that my mother was that strong.

I had no idea she was that strong woman.

I just knew she was mom, but to be that strong, to be on her own and travel like that and go through the things she went through and act like nothing act like it didn't even bother her.

- I can tell that the films have impacted you.

And it sounds like you gained a great admiration and respect for your mother in watching these films, which is great thing about documentaries.

Carolyn, what about you?

What did you learn about your grandmother since these documentaries came out and having the opportunity to watch them and learn more about her?

- I learned a lot in similar.

It's interesting.

I always knew about my grandmother and I just met and I never met my grandmother.

So she had died in 1960 and I wasn't born until later, but my mom, I knew her more as my grandmother who happened to serve in World War I and that she was a special person.

And I heard that story, but I didn't know the rest of the story.

And similar to Janice where I didn't realize the full impact and it wasn't until the book came out and the documentary where Jim really pulls it to life.

And I found out the rest of the story.

I knew the women had served bravely in World War One and they served an important role.

But what I didn't know was the rest of the story when they came back, that they actually were not acknowledged as veterans.

And it makes sense because I was a young, I was, you know, and I was like a young teenager, probably about the time when the women got their full recognition posthumously for many of them and definitely for my grandmother.

So I never knew that story.

And I don't even know that my own mother knew the rest of that story.

So that was a huge surprise to me.

And similarly, you know, you do, like you were saying, Janice, I really connect I'm reading about my grandmother.

And I also read about how she said, I'm very strong-willed.

She was very independent.

And I think it was that similar drive.

She just wanted to be out there in the world, not really thinking, oh, I'm going to make a big difference.

She just wanted to be, you know, be out there.

And anyway, then I wish I could go back and interview my grandmother and know more about her.

Just be great to have that connection.

- Well, it's so nice to hear you guys both talking about the impact of these films.

So here's an interesting thing about both of these women.

They were both big women, media stars.

You say that you learned a lot by watching these documentaries and learning more about them and you didn't know the whole story.

So do you know how they felt about this attention that they received?

We'll start with you, Janice.

You said to you, it was just mom.

- She, you didn't see what all the fuss was about.

She would and this was the most interesting thing after meeting the few ladies that I did meet, they all said the same thing and I start I had to even ask my mom, did you, were you all told to say something in particular?

Because they each said the exact same words and when asked, what was it all about?

They said we had a job to do, we did our job and we did our best.

And we came home and no one knew any more about us.

(Janice chuckles) That was the end.

And that was how it went.

She said it was war time.

You had to do what you had to do.

But other than that, and like now with all the media, she just says, that would be nice.

But you know, 70, 75 years later, she said, it would've been nice if it would have happened when we came home, she said, but it's nice that people are starting to look at what we did, but it was a job.

And we had a job to do, and we did our job.

So she didn't see it as a big deal.

She just would sit there and say, okay.

And I would ask her sometimes she wouldn't make a comment, she says, now I'm 'Famous Amos.'

(both laughing) - So it sounds like she's very humble about it.

Just just my job.

- Yes.

And that's what all the ladies said when we've met, when I met the other five and I asked the same question and I said, no, I got to ask.

They must have.

I said, they had to have been told not to say anything.

Why would they all say the exact same thing and none of them knew each other?

I said, this was very strange to me that was a mystery.

- What about you, Carolyn?

You know, same question.

- Yeah.

- For your girls over there.

So it's interesting.

It's kind of similar in a reverse kind of way.

And that when my grandmother came back, so at the time the media, all the newspapers were reporting about this group of women, 223 women that were over in France.

And so they got a lot of publicity in the newspapers.

I have, my grandmother saved all these articles and then when she returned, it was interesting.

So similar to what Janice said is she was very proud of what she did, but very matter of fact, the same thing, you know, they worked hard.

She worked hard alongside, you know, the officers, the males, but you know, the men, the women, they all worked together and they had a job to do to help win the war.

That was, that was her bottom line.

But I will tell you, she did not like being in the media attention at all.

So, and it's ironic because they really were.

They, if they would ask and what I could find was in some of her letters, I got a sense of her.

She felt like they just asked like, oh, how many proposals of marriage did you get or silly things where she just said, I can't be bothered with this.

And actually I had found out in reading through some of my letters, I find that she wrote to another officer that she was very close to and they had a mutual respect for one another.

And it was interesting because she said in the letter said, you know, I'm here out in Illinois and I'm sure you're wondering why I'm here.

Though she grew up in New Jersey.

And apparently she was home for about two weeks.

And the media was just swarming at their house so much that she just basically needed to escape and took off and visited a distant cousin of hers just to escape all the attention because for her, it was, that was my job.

And, you know, but she felt like they were making a big deal out of it.

And you know, that was pretty much her response.

- Well, it's so nice to be so humble about something so great when you're having such an impact on the future.

So, Janice, I want to talk to you about your mom is having a post office named after her.

You were at the dedication.

Tell us a little bit about that day.

- Well, when they first told me they were thinking about this, I mean, they, my mother was alive when they first said this and I said, mom, it's not a big deal.

They're just going to probably put a little plaque in there, you know, with your name on it.

It's not a big deal, but it's your post office, the one that you go to and you make us go to all the time.

So she said, "oh, oh, is that it?"

I said, yeah, don't worry.

I said, it's no big deal.

But then I found out that this is now a Bill in Congress and The Senate where they're voting on this.

And I said, this is really, I said, she didn't know it was going to be this bigger deal.

And then to be at the post office the day when Congressman Higgins, the Mayor and all these people and family.

And it was just, I mean, it was a state of all because I kept looking at the post office and I said, wow, if this bill is passed, my mom's name is going to be there forever.

(both laughing) I said, what an honor.

I said, and she had no idea.

It was going to turn out to be this big of a deal.

- Well I am glad you had - So we were - experience all that - all really - surprised that it went that far.

And when they sent me the letter that it was HR, I think H.R.2142, I said, people are actually saying my mother's name in Congress and the Senate and someone heard the president's going to have to sign this.

Oh my goodness.

- Well, it sounds like that had quite the impact on you.

- Oh gosh.

- And quite the impact on her as well.

Okay.

Carolyn.

So I'm coming back to you.

I learned that your grandmother kept a lot of her war items.

What surprised you the most about that?

- Well, if I was amazed because my grandmother apparently did not talk much about her war experience and when we found the items and I should say they were, most of them were in a trunk under our basement stairs since like the early 70s.

And again, it was just tucked away.

And to find out that she saved everything.

I mean, everything she collected, just she, you know, she has uniform, she had helmets, gas mask.

I mean, the reality, I never thought about it is they were issued gas masks and helmets because they were that close.

Or what they called the advanced section that they were, you know, their lives were at risk.

And she was actually was reported to have been like three feet away from being hit by shrapnel and was actually yelled at, by one of the officers for not wearing her helmet when she went outside that day.

And we have the helmet.

So it is really incredible because again, hearing about the documentary, learning all of this, and then going back and looking at all these items.

I mean, when I met with Jim and we were going through and showing items out during the filming, I just, I was just looking at it like it was my first time ever.

It just was an incredible experience.

And then all our letters, all that, you know, newspaper articles.

So it just was incredible to me, how many things, how many volumes of things we have and making sure that it's taken care of.

But it's, it's pretty exciting.

- That is very exciting.

Jim, I want you to tell us about the Congressional Gold Medals that both groups of women are up for.

- The first mention of it was a couple of years ago and I was sitting on the panel with the World War One Centennial Commission here in DC.

They were preparing and, you know the monument, that's going up to World War One Veterans in DC.

And I had mentioned the, I called them up because I mentioned the movie, "The Hello Girls" documentary, and then I would like to show it to them.

And so a friend of mine brought it to the committee and they said, well, you know, have they been nominated for the Congressional Gold Medal yet?

And I said, no, they haven't.

And so the author, Elizabeth Cobbs and I, we got together and it's really, it's funny.

It's really a simple, a simple document five, six pages first four legalees.

And the last two pages are 35 to 40 significant accomplishments the women did during the war.

And it's the same for both groups of women.

So once we got "The Hello Girls", Congressional Gold Medal through the first time we were finishing up the "SixTripleEight", and I said to one of my producers, well, why don't we try for Congressional Gold Medal for the "SixTripleEight" women?

And so we did, and both our, both of these bills are still alive in Congress.

And we hope that both will pass this year.

We have until 2022, when the next Congress (indistinct), but it would be a significant achievement for the women to be recognized with this medal Congressional Gold Medal because of the first one was given to George Washington.

And there's only been about 160-162 given out over the course of American history.

So it's not easy to get one of these and people see, and we thought, and people see that both groups of women are very deserving of this in Congress felt the same way.

So gosh, if we can, what a glorious thing that would be to be able to do that for the women, because I wanted to jump on something you picked on too, about picked up on the humility of the women.

For me, since I don't possess enough of that, it was always such a wonderful time to be around the women and the family members who possessed all of that.

And that's part of what really helped has helped shape me to be a better person over the last two years, since I've been heavily involved with these two films.

And one thing I've noticed is that good is good, but take good and add humility.

And you've got great.

And that's what these two groups of women were.

They were ordinary women, so they deserved that Congressional Gold Medal.

- Carolyn, Janice, I'll start with you Carolyn, do you have any final thoughts or final thing that you want somebody to know about your grandmother?

- For me, it's a lot about just my personal, just immense pride and that I knew her through my mom, that she was a very loving, generous person, very active in her community.

And I just feel like she was somebody that many people could relate to just because she was just such a kind and you know, giving person.

And I just take great pride in knowing that.

So it's more that personal connection that happened to have a Distinguished Service Medal and served in World War One as a Chief Operator.

- Janice, what about you?

What's one final thought you want people to know about your mother.

- Someone who worked in her community.

She worked for the unemployment office, and she enjoyed trying to find work for people in the 40s and the 50s, especially during that time in Niagara Falls, when people of color couldn't get any jobs and her working for the employment office, she was always telling people where to go, who was looking for work.

And people came to her all the time, and I never understood why so many people knew her because they always used to tell on me, but that was the one thing.

She was always helping people doing their taxes, trying to find them something to do, find work and things like that.

And even until I would say prior to her death, even when she was in dialysis, she would be trying to tell people how to do things.

She was always organizing and trying to direct things.

So I just want people to know my mother learned a lot when she was in the military.

But I think it was also on the back of who she was.

She was just a very strong-willed person.

(upbeat music) - Well, Jim, Carolyn and Janice, thank you so much for joining us today.

That's all the time we have for this episode of IGI.

If you have any comments or suggestions for future topics, send us an email at issues@ktwu.org if you'd like to view this program again, or any previous episodes of IGI, visit us online@watch.ktwu.org for IGI I'm LeTiffany Obozele and thank you for watching.

(upbeat music) - [Announcer1] KNEA, empowering educators, so that educators can empower Kansas students.

- [Announcer2] This program is brought to you with support from the Lewis H Humphreys Charitable Trust, and from The Friends of KTWU.