>> IT'S A DEBATE.

WE'LL HEAR FROM BOTH SIDES ON AN IMMIGRATION MEASURE REFERRED TO THE BALLOT BY STATE LAWMAKERS... ALSO TONIGHT: BIG CHANGES IN TH WAY HOMES ARE BOUGHT AND SOLD I ARIZONA AND AROUND THE COUNTRY.... AND, HOW MUCH IS AN INCREASE IN METRO PHOENIX EVICTION FILINGS CONTRIBUTING TO HEAT-RELATED DEATHS.

THOSE STORIES AND MORE, NEXT, ON ARIZONA HORIZON.

GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO ARIZONA HORIZON.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION KICKED OFF TODAY AT THE UNITED CENTER IN CHICAGO.

THE MOOD INSIDE THE ARENA IS EXPECTED TO BE UPBEAT AND POSITIVE WITH VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS REPLACING JOE BIDEN AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET.

THE MOOD OUTSIDE THE UNITED CENTER WILL LIKELY BE LESS CONGENIAL, WITH PROTESTORS ALREADY GATHERING IN OPPPOSITIO TO A VARIETY OF ISSUES, MOST NOTABLY THE WAR IN GAZA.

CHICAGO'S POLICE SUPERINTENDENT SAYS THAT THE CITY IS READY.

[ NO AUDIO ] >> WE'RE EXPECTING PROTESTS THROUGHOUT THE CITY FOR THE REST OF THE WEEK.

WE HOPE FOR THE EXACT SAME OUTCOME FOR EVERY PROTEST, THAT EVERYONE GIVES OF GETS TO EXPRESS THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS, WE DON'T HAVE ANY INCIDENTS.

IF THAT OCCURS, WHERE WE'VE HAD THE MOST SUCCESS FOR THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION THAT WE CAN IMAGINE.

PRESIDENT BIDEN TOPS THE LIST O SPEAKERS TONIGHT, WITH FIRST LADY JILL BIDEN AND FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON ALSO ON THE SPEAKER SCHEDULE.

WEIRDNESS INVOLVING THE DONALD TRUMP CAMPAIGN.

TRUMP LAST NIGHT POSTED FAKE, A IMAGES OF TAYLOR SWIFT SUPPORTING HIM, WHICH PROMPTED TRUMP TO SAY THAT HE ACCEPTS HE NON-EXISTENT ENDORSEMENT.

TRUMP POSTED THE FAKE IMAGES ON HIS TRUTH SOCIAL ACCOUNT.

SWIFT HAS YET TO ACTUALLY SUPPORT A PRESIDENTIA CANDIDATE SHE SUPPORT JOE BIDEN IN 2020.

AND PHIL DONAHUE DIED SUNDAY AFTER A LONG ILLNESS.

HE WAS 88.

DONAHUE WAS A TV TALK-SHOW PIONEER, WHO PROVED THAT DAYTIM AUDIENCES WERE INTERESTED IN SERIOUS ISSUES, OFTEN CENTERED ON WOMEN'S ISSUES, AND PRESENTE IN A STYLE THAT INCLUDED DONAHU CHARGING INTO STUDIO AUDIENCES TO SOLICIT QUESTIONS AN COMMENTS.

HIS SUCCESS LED TO THE LIKES OF GERALDO RIVERA, JERRY SPRINGER AND OPRAH WINFREY.

DONAHUE RECEIVED THE MEDAL OF FREEDOM FROM PRESIDENT BIDEN BACK IN MAY.

PHIL DONAHUE, DEAD, AT 88.

TONIGHT, WE HAVE A DEBATE.

WE HEAR FROM BOTH SIDES ON PROPOSITION 314, A PROPOSED MEASURE THAT WOULD MAKE IT A STATE CRIME FOR NON-U.S. CITIZENS TO ENTER ARIZONA AT AN LOCATION OTHER THAN THE PORT OF ENTRY.

IT ALSO ALLOWS STATE AND LOCAL POLICE TO ARREST THOSE WHO CROS UNLAWFULLY.

JOINING US NOW IS REPUBLICAN STATE SENATOR JOHN KAVANAGH, WH IS IN FAVOR OF PROP 314, AND SPEAKING IN OPPOSITION TO THE MEASURE IS KIMBER LANNING FOUNDER AND CEO OF LOCAL FIRST ARIZONA.

OF GOOD TO HAVE YOU BOTH HERE.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

THIS SHOULD BE VERY INTERESTING JOHN, WE'RE GOING TO START WITH YOU.

WHY IS THIS A GOOD IDEA FOR ARIZONA.

>> SURE.

WELL, PRESIDENT TRUMP HAD THE BORDER PRETTY MUCH UNDER CONTROL BECAUSE HE REPLACED PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA'S CATCH AND RELEASE POLICY WHICH STAY IN MEXICO WHERE PEOPLE CLAIMING ASYLUM HAD TO WAIT IN MEXICO WHILE THEIR CASE WAS ADJUDICATED.

THIS PRETTY MUCH TOOK THE SENSE AWAY FOR PEOPLE TO COME AND MAKE PHONY CLAIMS.

BUT PRESIDENT BIDEN AND VICE-PRESIDENT HARRIS ON THE FIRST DAY WHEN THEY TOOK OVER, THEY CANCELED THAT POLICY, AND THEY ALSO CANCELED 94 OTHER TRUMP ANTI-ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION MEASURES.

THE RESULT HAS BEEN A TSUNAMI OF PEOPLE CROSSING THE BORDER EITHER TOTALLY ILLEGALLY AND QUESTIONABLE ASYLUM CLAIMS.

8 TO 10 MILLION PEOPLE HAVE CROSSED THE BORDER IN THE LAST THREE AND A HALF YEARS.

YOU HAVE SOME PEOPLE COMING FROM TERRORIST STATES.

ALMOST 1,000 PEOPLE FROM TERRORIST -- OH ON THE TERRORIST WATCH LIST HAVE BEEN APPREHENDED.

99 OF THEM WERE ALLOWED INTO THE COUNTRY.

FENTENYL IS BEING BROUGHT ACROSS THE BORDER.

WE HAD A QUARTER OF A MILLION FENTENYL DEATHS IN 2023.

SO IT IS A DISASTER, AND THE STATE HAS TO STEP UP AND TRY TO STOP THE FLOW OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, ESPECIALLY IN THE AREA BETWEEN THE PORTS, WHICH IS WHERE THE REALLY DANGEROUS PEOPLE COME IN AND WHAT THIS BILL ADDRESS.

>> WHY NOT MAKE IT A CRIME TO BE IN ARIZONA UNLAWFULLY?

>> WE BELIEVE IT'S THE WRONG APPROACH, TED.

THIS BILL DOES NOTHING TO SOLVE THE FENTENYL ISSUE.

I BELIEVE ARIZONANS DEEPLY WANT A SECURE BORDER.

WE ALL DESERVE A SECURE BORDER.

AND WHAT SENATOR KAVANAUGH OUTLINED IS NOT WHOLLY INCORRECT.

HOWEVER, THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION NOT ONLY WILL NOT SOLVE THE DRUG ISSUE.

IT WILL ALSO CAUSE SEVERE REPUTATIONAL HARM FOR THE STATE OF ARIZONA WHICH DOESN'T ADD TO COMMERCE.

IT ACTUALLY TAKES AWAY FROM OUR COMMERCE AND OUR NUMBER ONE TRADE APARTMENT, MEXICO.

>> HOW WOULD IT NOT SOLVE THE DRUG ISSUE?

>> SURE.

SO STUDY AFTER STUDY SHOWS THAT THE LAST RECENT NUMBER WAS 96% OF THE PEOPLE SMUGGLING FENTENYL ACROSS THE BORDER ARE ACTUALLY U.S. CITIZENS.

SO THE STUDY WITH THE LOWEST NUMBER IS 90%.

THE HIGHEST NUMBER IS 96%.

SO WHAT'S HAPPENING IS WE ARE TAKING RURAL LAW ENFORCEMENT, WHICH IS ALREADY SPREAD THIN, AND WE'RE HAVING THEM GO AFTER THE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT HAVE THE FENTENYL.

MEANWHILE, U.S. CITIZENS ARE CROSSING THROUGH LEGALLY AND NOT BEING STOPPED.

>> HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

>> THIS IS REALLY ABOUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

FENTENYL IS A SMART SMALL PART OF THE BILL.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE 8 TO 10 ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS PHONY ASYLUM SEEKERS WHO HAVE FLOODED THIS COUNTRY, OVERBURDENED OUR CITIES, STRAINING OUR SCHOOLS.

STRAINING HOSPITALS, STRAINING LAW ENFORCEMENT.

THE THREAT FROM TERRORISTS IN THIS GROUP.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO STOP BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE THESE CRIMINAL RECORDS, THEY GO TO THE BORDER CROSSING AND THEY'RE VETTED THROUGH.

NOT TOO WELL BECAUSE THEY'RE OVERWORKED.

BUT THE ONES COMING THROUGH BETWEEN THE CORPORATION, THOSE ARE THE TERRORISTS, THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WITH CRIMINAL RECORDS, THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO KNOW IF THEY WENT AND HAD THEIR DOCUMENTS CHECKED LEGALLY THEY WOULD BE REJECTED OUR ARRESTED, THAT'S WHO WE'RE TRYING TO STOP.

FENTENYL IS A SIDE ISSUE.

LET'S GET THESE TERRORISTS OUT OF HERE.

>> FENTENYL WAS A MAJOR PART OF THIS BILL TO PLAY TO THE FEAR TO GET THE BASE OUT TO VOTE.

I'M GLAD TO HEAR THE SENATOR RECOGNIZE IT WON'T SOLVE THE FENTENYL ISSUE, HOWEVER IT IS PLAYING TO PEOPLE'S EMOTIONS AND FEAR.

IN ADDITION, I WANTED TO POINT OUT THAT THIS IS AN UNFUNDED MANDATE THAT THE NON-PARTISAN GRAND CANYON INSTITUTE ESTIMATE THIS IS A $325 MILLION BILL ATTACHED TO THIS MANDATE, AND WHERE IS THAT MONEY GONNA COME FROM?

THIS IS GONNA FALL ON THE BACKS OF OUR RURAL LAW ENFORCEMENT, WHO ARE ALREADY STRETCHED WAY TOO THIN.

SO EITHER TAXES ARE GONNA GO UP OR SERVICES ARE GOING TO GO DOWN.

>> THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS ALSO SAYS THAT THIS COULD CAUSE A BOATLOAD OF MONEY AND THEY DON'T KNOW WHERE IT'S GOING TO GO.

>> I DIDN'T SAY THIS WOULD NOT SOLVE THE FENTENYL ISSUE.

IT WILL HELP.

IT WILL NOT SOLVE IT COMPLETELY, BUT IT WILL BE A DETERRENT.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT COSTS.

>> THE STUDY WAS THE GRAND CANYON STUDY EXORBITANTLY OVERESTIMATES THE COST THIS PROGRAM.

FIRST, IT ASSUMES THAT ALL OF THE PEOPLE THAT WILL BE PICKED UP ARE GOING TO GO TO PRISON.

THAT'S NOT TRUE.

THIS BILL CLEARLY STATES THAT IT'S A FIRST-TIME CROSSER THAT'S APPREHENDED, WHEN THEY GO TO THE JUDGE IMMEDIATELY, THEY HAVE THE OPTION OF LEAVING ON THEIR OWN.

TO BE ESCORTED BACK TO THE BORDER AND SAID GOODBYE, DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU IN THE ASS.

GIVEN A CHOICE BETWEEN GOING TO AN ARIZONA PRISON AND GOING BACK ACROSS THE BORDER, DO YOU THINK THEY'RE GONNA GO TO PRISON AND COST THESE COST AS SOON AS.

>> WHY DOES THIS PARTICULAR MEASURE INCLUDE LIABILITY IMMUNITY FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ENFORCING THIS PARTICULAR LAW?

WHAT'S THAT ALL ABOUT?

>> FIRST OF ALL, LAW ENFORCEMENT ALREADY HAS GENERAL IMMUNITY IN MOST AREAS.

BUT THE SHERIFFS WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAD IMMUNITY HERE, BECAUSE THERE WERE SO MANY ACTIVIST GROUPS, WELL MEANING AS THEY MAY BE, WHO WOULD INSTITUTE LAWSUITS AND CHARGES AGAINST COPS WHO WERE ENFORCING THE IMMIGRATION LAW, THAT THEY WANTED -- >> ARE THEY INSTITUTING LAWSUITS RIGHT NOW, ARE THEY THE GENERAL IMMUNITY THAT YOU REFER TO?

>> HAVE YOU PEOPLE CLAIMING BRUTALITY AND OTHER TYPES OF THINGS, BUT THAT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT ISSUE.

>> WELL, BUT IT'S ALSO -- THE IMMUNITY ISSUE IS VERY MUCH A PART OF THIS.

HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THIS?

LET'S GO BACK TO THE IDEA OF LAW ENFORCEMENT.

APPARENTLY I BELIEVE THIS MEASURE SAYS YOU GOTTA FEED US.

THERE HAS TO BE SOME SORT OF EVIDENCE THAT THESE FOLKS CROSS, YOU CAN'T JUST STOP SOMEONE AND SAY I THINK YOU MAY HAVE CROSSED.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE EVIDENCE TO CROSS.

IS THAT NOT A GOOD THING?

>> WELL, IT IS A GOOD THING, BUT UNREALISTIC AND UNFUNDED THING.

SO WE DON'T HAVE EXTRA RURAL LAW ENFORCEMENT WAITING AROUND FOR THINGS TO DO PICKUP MAY REMEMBER, TED, WE ARE THE ARIZONA RURAL DEVELOPMENT COUNCIL TO FEDERALLY DESIGNATED COUNCIL HERE IN ARIZONA, AND WE'RE ALREADY RECEIVING LETTERS FROM MAYORS AND OTHER ELECTED OFFICIALS SAYING WHO'S GONNA PAY FOR THIS.

I KNOW SENATOR KAVANAUGH SAID THAT WAS GROSSLY OVERESTIMATED BUT THE JOINT BUDGET LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEE ALSO RATED AND YOU JUST CITED ANOTHER SOURCE SAYING THIS IS INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE, TOTALLY UNFUNDED.

OUR STATE HASN'T EVEN PASSED A BUDGET YET.

>> FIRST OF ALL, THE ARIZONA SHERIFFS ASSOCIATION SUPPORTS THIS PROPOSITION.

THEY'RE BEHIND IT BECAUSE THEY SEE FIRSTHAND ALL THE PROBLEMS THAT THESE ILLEGAL BORDER CROSSERS COST.

THERE MAY BE SOME DEMOCRAT MAYORS AND PEOPLE AROUND SAYING NO TO THIS, BUT LAW ENFORCEMENT, WHO HAVE BOOTS ON THE GROUND, THEY'RE FOR THIS BILL.

ANOTHER REASON WHY THE COST THIS PROGRAM IS BEING OVERESTIMATED IS IF THEY -- IT'S A STATIC ANALYSIS.

IT ONLY ASSUMES THE COST OF ENFORCING THIS LAW.

IT DOESN'T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT ALL OF THE SAVINGS BECAUSE WHEN LESS ILLEGALS COME IN, THERE'S LESS CRIMES, THERE'S LESS PROSECUTION FOR CRIMES, LESS CHILDREN IN SCHOOLS THAT WE HAVE TO EDUCATE.

THERE'S LESS EMERGENCY CARE AND TREATMENT AND ALL SORTS OF OTHER COSTS THAT GO AWAY WHEN THEY'RE NOT HERE TO BEGIN WITH.

>> SURE.

SO STUDY AFTER STUDY AFTER STUDY SHOWS THAT IMMIGRATION IS A NET ECONOMIC GAIN, WHETHER YOU MEASURE IT JUST THROUGH THE ECONOMY IN OUR FISCAL BOTTOMLINE, IMMIGRATION IS A NET GAIN FOR THE STATE OF ARIZONA.

>> LEGAL OR ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION >> IMMIGRATION JUST IN GENERAL.

SO IT'S VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.

WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF SCIENCE ENGINEERING AND MEDICINE OR ALL THE WAY OVER TO THE GEORGE W. BUSH INSTITUTE, THEY ALL WILL SAY THAT IMMIGRATION IS A NET GAIN FOR ARIZONA AND EVEN RIGHT NOW WE HAVE 30% OF DACA RECIPIENTS IN THE STATE OF ARIZONA THAT ARE EMPLOYED IN JOBS THAT ARE IN HIGH TECH MANUFACTURING.

A CERTAIN PERCENT HAVE REALLY GOOD JOBS.

SO WE CAN'T SUBTRACT THE COST, THE IMMEDIATE COSTS WITHOUT ALSO ADDING THE LONG-TERM GAIN.

>> LEGAL IMMIGRATION IS A WONDERFUL THING BECAUSE YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO YOU VET.

WE LET THEM IN.

THEIR WHEN QUOTA TIME COMES, THEY'RE OFTEN EDUCATED.

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION ARE MOSTLY YOUNG MALES IN THE CRIME YEARS, MANY ARE GANG MEMBERS WHO ARE INVESTING IN PLACES LIKE LONG ISLAND WHERE I GREW UP.

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS BAD, AND IT'S ALSO UNFAIR TO THE DECENT PEOPLE ALL AROUND THE WORLD ARE WAITING THEIR TURN, WHOSE SPOTS HAVE BEEN TAKEN BY THESE LINE JUMPERS.

>> LAST POINT ON THIS, CRITICS SAY THAT THIS DRAGS THE STATE BACK TO THE DAYS OF SB-1070.

THEY GOT A POINT?

>> NO, THEY DON'T.

SB-1070 WAS A WILDLY POPULAR LAW.

IF YOU LOOK AT POLLS, THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE SUPPORTED 1070.

IF YOU LOOK AT POLLS ABOUT THIS IMMIGRATION CRISIS WE NOW HAVE, A MAJORITY DEMOCRATS, INDEPENDENT AND REPUBLICANS TOTALLY SUPPORT BORDER ENFORCEMENT.

THE STATE NEEDS TO COME IN AND DO OUR PART, AND I DON'T CARE IF THIS COST A HALF A MILLION DOLLARS, IT'S WORTH IT TO PROTECT OUR CITIZENS AND OUR COUNTRY.

>> SB-1070 APPARENTLY WASN'T SUCH A BAD THING.

>> NO.

WE SUFFERED YEARS AND YEARS OF REPUTATIONAL HARM WITH THE "SHOW ME YOUR PAPER" LAWS.

SO THIS IS A COPYCAT BILL MODELED AFTER A TEXAS BILL THAT WAS ADJUDICATED.

THEY ADDED A CLAUSE IN THIS BILL THAT SIMPLY SAYS, IN CASE THIS IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL, THIS WILL NEVER TAKE EFFECT.

SO THAT IS JUST RECKLESS LEGISLATION AT ITS WORST.

IN ADDITION -- I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ARIZONANS ARE HURTING.

WE HAVE A PROBLEM.

THE BORDER IS IN CRISIS.

LET ME BE CLEAR.

IT'S A FEDERAL ISSUE.

AND IT'S A CRISIS.

>> PLEASE, WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME, BUT I NEED TO ASK YOU, IF THIS DOESN'T PASS, IF THIS DOESN'T WORK, IF THIS ISN'T RIGHT AND WE WAIT FOR THE FEDS, IS YOUR ANSWER TO LEAVE THINGS AS THEY ARE?

>> NO, I THINK WE NEED PUSH IMMEDIATELY.

BUT I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THE HALF A MILLION AND PUT IT TOWARD THE U.S. MAIL.

THEY NEED SCANNERS, WE NEED BODY SCANS AT THE BORDER.

THERE'S PLENTY OF WAYS WE CAN INVEST AT MORE EFFECTIVELY THAN THIS LEGISLATION.

>> BODY SCANNERS AT CROSSING POINTS WHERE PEOPLE ARE BEING VETTED ARE USELESS.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NEARLY A MILLION PEOPLE, MANY FROM TERRORIST STATES, MANY ARE CRIMINALS PRIOR DEPORTEES WHO CLAWING BETWEEN THE BORDER AND CAN'T BE STOPPED BECAUSE THE BORDER PATROL WAS TOO BUSY BEING A WELCOME WAGON.

THE STATE HAD TO STEP UP TO PROTECT THE CITIZENS.

>> THAT'S IT.

GOOD DEBATE.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

NEW RULES THAT OVERHAULED THE WAY THAT REALTORS GET PAID WENT INTO EFFECT OVER THE WEEKEND.

THE CHANGES ARE PART OF A SETTLEMENT ANNOUNCED IN MARCH, THAT ELIMINATES THE INDUSTRY'S TRADITIONAL PAYMENT STRUCTURE.

WE RECENTLY LEARNED MORE ABOUT THESE NEW RULES FROM CATHERINE REAGOR, SENIOR REAL ESTATE REPORTER AT THE ARIZONA REPUBLI AND AZCENTRAL.COM.

>> LET'S MAKE SENSE OF, THIS BECAUSE THIS CAN BE KIND OF CONFUSING.

OVERALL 30,000, WHAT DOES THIS SETTLEMENT DO?

>> IT'S A LOT TO UNPACK.

IT CHANGES THE STRUCTURE FOR REAL ESTATE COMMISSIONS, AND ESSENTIALLY FROM NOW -- AND AGAIN, I WANT TO SAY THE NATIONAL REAL ESTATE OF REALTORS, VERY BIG GROUP, THEY HAVE NOT ADMITTED ANY WRONG-DOING.

BUT ESSENTIALLY NOW SELLERS WILL -- LOOKS LIKE IT'S GOING TO GO BACK TO JULY, SELLER ALSO NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR PAYING BUYERS REAL ESTATE COMMISSIONS.

SO IF YOU'RE SELLING A HOME, YOU'RE TYPICALLY A SELLER, YOU'RE PAYING 6%, 3% TO YOUR AGENT, 3% TO THE BUYER'S AGENT.

THAT WILL NO LONGER BE THE CASE AND THOSE FEES ARE ADVERTISED ON THE MLS.

THEY'LL SAY, OKAY, WE'RE GOING TO GIVE 3% COMMISSION.

THOSE CAN'T BE ADVERTISED ANYMORE, ON THE MLS, OR IT CAN BE A PRIVATE AGREEMENT.

>> OKAY.

SO THE LISTING AGENT CAN'T OFFER COMPENSATION FOR THE BUYING AGENT?

>> YES.

YES.

>> THEY CANNOT.

THEY CANNOT DO THAT.

>> YES.

OKAY.

JUST TO MAKE IT EVEN MORE CLEAR, LET'S SAY I'M SELLING MY HOUSE TO YOU.

HOW DID IT WORK BEFORE, HOW WILL IT WORK NOW?

>> BEFORE YOU HAD TO -- YOU HAD AGREED TO A COMMISSION WITH YOUR REAL ESTATE AGENT FROM THE 3 TO 6%, AND IF YOU WOULD GO OUT AND SAY HEY WE'RE GOING TO PAY A BUYER'S AGENT 3%, SO YOU WOULD PAY YOUR AGENT 3% AND THE BUYER'S AGENT 3%.

THAT GOES AWAY.

YOU CAN HAVE SPECIAL AGREEMENTS YOU CAN -- BUYERS CAN PAY THAT THEMSELVES FOR THEIR AGENT.

RIGHT NOW TO GIVE AS A BONUS TO SELL THEIR HOME, SELLERS CAN AGREE TO KEEP PAYING IT OR PAY SOMETHING TO BUYERS.

ALSO BUYERS NOW HAVE TO HAVE A NEGOTIATED AGREEMENT WITH THEIR BUYER'S AGENT.

AND THAT WASN'T MANDATORY BEFORE.

SO THEY KNOW THIS IS WHAT I'M GETTING.

THIS IS WHAT I'M GONNA PAY YOU.

THIS IS HOW WE'RE GONNA DO IT.

>> IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME SINCE I BOUGHT A HOME, SO I'M KIND OF -- I NEED TO BE RECHARGED ON THIS.

AND HOLY SMOKES, I'M GLAD I HAVEN'T DONE IT IN A WHILE.

AND ALL OF THIS ALSO INCLUDES SOMETHING CALLED STEERING.

WHAT IS THAT?

>> AND THIS CAME OUT OF -- THERE WAS A LAWSUIT THAT A JURY DECIDED IN FAVOR OF THE PLAINTIFFS IN MISSOURI, AND IT WAS BASED AROUND THE STEERING.

AND ESSENTIALLY SAYING THAT BUYERS' AGENTS WOULD STEER THEIR CUSTOMERS TO THE HOMES THAT THEY GOT THE BIGGEST COMMISSION ON.

AND IT MAY NOT BE THE BEST DEAL FOR THE BUYER.

IT MAY NOT BE THE BEST HOME FOR THE BUYER, BUT THEY WERE GETTING THE MOST COMMISSION.

THE JURY FOUND IN FAVOR OF THE PLAINTIFF.

THE NORTH SETTLEMENT DIFFERENT AND VERY CONTROVERSIAL, OF COURSE, AND YOU HAVE AGENTS HERE IN ARIZONA WHO SAY, OH, YES, IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.

OTHER AGENTS SAY, NO, THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

BUT THIS IS -- THIS WILL CHANGE THAT BECAUSE BUYERS WON'T GET.

>> YEAH, THE 3%.

STEERING HOMES, STEERING BUYERS TO THE BIG COMMISSION PLACES DON'T EXIST IF THE BIG COMMISSION PLACES DON'T EXIST.

>> YEAH.

>> HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN WITH I'LL OH AND REAL -- REALTOR.COM?

I THOUGHT THAT ENDED THE PLAYING FIELD A LITTLE BIT.

>> IT DOES, NOT ALL LISTINGS GO ON THOSE.

SOME LISTINGS ARE CALLED POCKET LISTINGS.

OR SOME LISTINGS ARE KEPT QUIETLY.

I COME ACROSS THESE ALL THE TIME, AND MAYBE THEN -- THE AGENT WHO HAS THE LISTING, WHO KEEPS IT QUIET, MAYBE THE HOMEOWNER DOESN'T WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW IT'S FOR SALE, BUT THEY CAN TELL OTHER AGENTS ABOUT IT.

SO IT DOESN'T HAVE TO GO ON THE MLS AND DOESN'T HAVE TO HAVE A "FOR SALE" SIGN OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

>> WILL WE SEE MORE OF THAT?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING AS WE'RE WATCHING THIS PLAY OUT.

I CAME ACROSS AN INTERESTING STAT THAT THE U.S.

PAYS MORE IN COMMISSIONS THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY.

AND LAST YEAR THE STUDY CAME OUT $100 MILLION IN COMMISSIONS.

AND THEY'RE SAYING -- THIS ANALYST IS SAYING 30% OF THAT MUCH IN COMMISSIONS CAN GO AWAY.

>> WOW.

OKAY.

ALL THAT GOES AWAY.

WITH A DOES THAT DO TO THE REAL ESTATE MARKET HOME PRICES?

>> I HAVE -- I JUST WANT TO SAY I WOULD NEVER BUY A HOME WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE OF A REAL ESTATE AGENT, BECAUSE THEY KNOW SO MUCH AND THEY KNOW MORE THAN WHAT'S ON THE LISTING OR ANYTHING ELSE.

BUT A LOT OF THE VETERAN REAL ESTATE AGENTS -- AND THEY'RE ALREADY SEEING THE NEW AGENTS WHO GOT INTO THE PANDEMIC WHEN THEY HAD SUCH A BOOM GOING ON -- ARE GETTING OUT OF THE BUSINESS, BECAUSE HOME SALES ARE DOWN, AND IF THIS COMMISSION THING -- AND THEY MOSTLY REPRESENT BUYERS -- A LOT OF THEM DO, SO IF THAT GOES AWAY, THEN THEY CAN'T MAKE A LIVING.

>> AND BECAUSE THE IDEA IS THAT REAL STORES DO MORE THAN JUST DRIVE AROUND SHOWING YOU HOMES WITH SIGNS IN THE GROUND.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

ABSOLUTELY.

YOU KNOW, A BUYER'S AGENT CAN HELP YOU GET A MORTGAGE, HELP YOU GET AN APPRAISAL.

HELP YOU GET AN INSPECTOR, TELL YOU WHAT YOU CAN NEGOTIATE AND DOES A LOT OF WORK.

THE AGENTS I TALKED TO SAY WE'RE STILL GONNA GET 6%.

THIS IS STILL GONNA HAPPEN BECAUSE WE -- WE DO THE MARKETING, THE TIME THEY SPENT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT GONNA DO IT WITH NOT GETTING PAID.

>> AND YOU CAN ALSO SEE FEES SUCH AS THEY ARE ROLL FOOD IN MORTGAGES, THESE SORTS OF THINGS?

>> WELL, THAT IS -- YOU KNOW WHAT, EACH STATE HAS DIFFERENT REAL ESTATE LAWS, BUT COMMISSIONS, I HAVE BEEN TOLD BY LENDERS, IT IS ILLEGAL TO METRO INTO A MORTGAGE.

>> OKAY.

>> A BUYER CAN NEGOTIATE FOR THE SELLER TO PAY THE FEES UPFRONT, AND I DO THINK THERE WILL BE MORE CREATIVE SOLUTIONS TO COME OUT OF THAT FOR BUYERS.

>> YEAH.

SO AS FAR AS THE REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY AND REAL REALTORS ARE CONCERNED, YOU MENTIONED THAT SOME OF THEM ARE DROPPING OUT, ARE WE GOING TO SEE FEWER PEOPLE GETTING INTO THE BUSINESS?

>> THAT'S WHAT I'M HEARING, AS WELL.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT MEMBERSHIP, MEMBERSHIP IS DOWN, PEOPLE THAT RENEW THEIR MEMBERSHIPS.

AND IF IT'S NOT THE LUCRATIVE BUSINESS THEY CAN WALK INTO, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO PAY TO GET YOUR LICENSE, YOU HAVE TO PAY TO BE A MEMBER OF NAN AND MLS, SO IT CAN BE EXPENSIVE IF YOU'RE JUST SELLING ONE HOUSE A YEAR.

>> LET'S SAY SOMEONE IS WATCHING RIGHT NOW THINKING OF SETTLE IN THE FALL OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES, WHAT DO THEY NEED TO KNOW?

>> IF THEY'RE THINKING OF SELLING, THE FIRST THING IS THEY'RE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR 6% COMMISSION.

RIGHT OFF THE BAT.

YOU KNOW, TYPICAL 3% GOES TO THE SELLER'S AGENT.

AND THEY MAY HAVE TO GET -- IF THE MARKET DOESN'T PICK UP, IF INTEREST RATES STILL HIGH, THEY MAY HAVE TO GET CREATIVE ON HOW TO HELP PAY THEIR AGENT'S COMMISSION.

>> SO BASICALLY IF YOU WANT GOOD REALTOR TO DO A GOOD JOB, YOU COULD WIND UP PAYING WHAT YOU PAID BEFORE, BUT IT'S NOT REQUIRED, IT'S NOT A MANDATE, THERE'S NOT A DEAL GOING ON.

>> RIGHT.

RIGHT.

SO WE'LL SEE HOW IT CHANGES.

>> WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR CLARIFYING.

BECAUSE, BOY, THIS COULD BE REALLY COMPLICATED.

>> IT IS.

>> ARIZONA REPUBLIC, AZCENTRAL.COM.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU.

EVICTIONS IN THE METRO PHOENIX AREA INCREASED AGAIN IN JULY LEAVING MANY WITHOUT A HOME AS TEMPERATURES SOARED TO RECORD HIGHS.

EVICTIONS RATES LAST MONTH WERE 30 % HIGHER THAN JULY OF 2019, WHICH WAS PRIOR TO THE COVID PANDEMIC.

TO TALK ABOUT THE PUBLIC HEALTH IMPLICATIONS OF ALL THIS.

WE WELCOME WILL HUMBLE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AT THE ARIZONA PUBLIC HEALTH ASSOCIATION.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THIS ALL REVOLVES AROUND THIS 1973 LANDLORD AND TENANT ACT.

>> BACK IN 1973 WHEN I HAD A PAPER ROUTE I WAS DELIVERING THE SCOTTSDALE PROGRESS WHEN THIS BILL PASSED, GOVERNOR JACK WILLIAMS SIGNED IT, IT'S CALLED THE ARIZONA RESIDENTIAL LAND LORD AND 10 AN INNOCENT ACT, AND THAT LAW FROM 1973 -- IT'S CALLED THE LANDLORD TENANT ACT, IF YOU LOOK AT THE DETAILS OF IT, IT VERY MUCH TILTS TOWARDS LANDLORDS AND TENANTS IN MY OPINION.

>> STREAMLINES THE PROCESS FOR LANDLORDS; DOES IT NOT.

>> YES.

>> AS FOR TENANTS, IT MAKE IT IS SO QUICK FOR THEM TO NOT HAVE TIME TO PREPARE?

>> FROM THE START IF YOU FALL BEHIND ON YOUR PAYMENT AND GET YOUR FIVE-DAY NOTICE, YOU'RE IN COURT WITHIN 6 DAYS, DEPENDING ON THE COURT'S SCHEDULE, YOU COULD BE OUT OF YOUR APARTMENT IN LESS THAN 30 DAYS.

IT COULD BE 3 WEEKS, AND YOU'RE GONE.

AND IF THAT HAPPENS IN JUNE, JULY, OR AUGUST, THAT'S POTENTIALLY LETHAL, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A PLAN B.

>> IS THERE A GENERAL IDEA OF HOW MANY FOLKS ARE LEFT HOMELESS HERE DURING THE SUMMER MONTHS?

>> I DON'T THINK -- AT LEAST I HAVEN'T FOUND ANYTHING THAT GIVES THE DETAILS OF THAT, BUT AS KATHERINE REAGOR'S STORY POINTED OUT, THERE'S ABOUT 8,000 EVICTION NOTICES THAT GO OUT IN THE PHOENIX AREA, 83,000 LAST YEAR.

THOSE ARE THE EVICTION NOTICES.

A LOT OF PEOPLE FALL BEHIND ON THE RENT, AND THEY JUST LEAVE BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT AN EVICTION NOTICE AND ADJUDICATION ON THEIR RECORD BECAUSE THEN THEY'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO FIND ANOTHER APARTMENT.

>> SO FOR ARIZONA'S GOT THIS ANTIQUATED LAW.

YOU WANT TO SEE SOME CHANGES HERE.

COLORADO AND MINNESOTA HAVE MADE SOME CHANGES.

ARE THOSE MODELS TO LOOK AT.

>> ONE THING MINNESOTA HAS IS YOU CAN'T EVICT PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WINTER.

WHAT WE COULD USE HERE IN THE SOUTHWEST DESERT LIKE A JUNE, JULY AND AUGUST EXCEPTION FROM MORATORIUM.

ALSO, COLORADO HAS MANDATORY MEDIATION, SO IT'S NOT JUST THIS DIAMOND LING FAST TRACK TO EVICTION, THERE'S A MORE FAIR PROCESS IN PLACE IN THAT STATE.

SO I THINK WE COULD REALLY LEARN FROM SOME OF THESE OTHER STATES THAT HAVE GOT MORE BALANCED LANDLORD AND TENANT ACT AND LAW.

WE'LL SEE IF THAT EVER HAPPENS IN THIS STATE.

I'M NOT GONNA HOLD MY BREATH.

>> SOUNDS LIKE MINNESOTA LANDLORDS HAVE TO SHOW JUST CAUSE; YOU CAN'T JUST CONVICT ARBITRARILY, IS THAT THE IDEA.

>> ARE RIGHT.

IN ARIZONA IF YOU FALL BEHIND ON REPRESENT, YOUR LANDLORD CAN FILE NOTICE WITHIN FIVE DAYS AND YOU'RE OFF TO COURT.

THERE'S NOT A MEDIATION IN THE MIDDLE LIKE COLORADO.

THERE'S NO JUST CAUSE DOCUMENTATION.

NOW, YOU CAN TELL THE JUDGE, YOU KNOW, THEY DIDN'T FIX THIS, THAT AND THE OTHER INSIDE AND MAYBE GET THE JUDGE TO NOT EVICT YOU RIGHT AWAY BUT IT'S A REAL FAST TRACK IN THE STATE, AND I THINK -- AND I HAVE THE DATA FOR IT, BUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SUMMER, THAT'S A REAL LETHAL COCKTAIL.

>> AND THAT MAKES IT A PUBLIC HEALTH SITUATION, WHICH YOU THINK NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.

>> CORRECT.

>> OKAY.

AS FAR AS HAVING IT ADDRESSED, IS THE LEGISLATURE -- IS THERE THE WILL -- I THOUGHT WE HAD ALL SORTS OF EVICTION MORATORIUMS DURING THE PANDEMIC.

WHAT HAPPENED TO THOSE?

>> SO IT WAS A FEDERAL ORDER, THE CDC DID THAT USING FEDERAL AUTHORITY FOR THE FEDERAL PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY.

AND SO THAT WAS THE EVICTION MORATORIUM YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

THAT ENDED WHEN PRESIDENT BIDEN ENDED THE PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY.

>> AND REAL QUICKLY, IS IT THE WILL OF THE LEGISLATURE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT THIS?

IS IT STARTING TO GET SOME ATTENTION DOWN THERE?

>> WE'LL FIND OUT IN NOVEMBER, RIGHT.

THIS LEGISLATURE HAD NO INTEREST.

I JUST WANT THE PUBLIC TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE'RE WORKING WITH THE 1973 LAW, THAT'S REALLY TILTED TOWARDS LANDLORDS.

AND IT'S PART OF THE REASON WHY WE HAVE AS MUCH HOMELESSNESS AS WE HAVE, AND IT'S PART OF WHY WE HAD 645 DEATHS LAST SUMMER.

>> WILL HUMBLE, ARIZONA PUBLIC HEALTH ASSOCIATION.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> THAT'S ALL FOR NOW.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, YOU