[music] - Immigration policy is often debated in Washington, but its consequences are felt most directly in communities like Sacramento.

Today, we look at how immigration enforcement affects families at home through the story of Jorge Aguirre-Alvarado and Ericcson Alvarado.

The couple built their life together in Sacramento, but Ericcson was detained by federal immigration authorities.

Their story raises larger questions about Due Process, community impact, and how immigration policy plays out on the ground.

Joining this conversation are Sacramento City Councilmember Eric Guerra, Opening Doors CEO Jessie Mabry, and Jorge Aguirre.

Jorge, welcome to the show.

- Thank you.

- And I have to ask you, tell us about your life with Ericcson and give us a sense of who he is.

- Sure.

You know, um... you know, between me and Ericcson, uh, been in Sacramento for 24 years, and we met, uh, from day one.

Hit it off.

I mean, I thinking back now, literally we haven't been separated from each other for since day one.

Pretty much.

And, you know, he's the most caring, loving, I mean... works with the community, uh, volunteers, uh, any community events that he can.

And he just, you know... has the compassion to get ahead in this, uh, in this life, you know, make this better-- life better.

- And you've built, you've built a life together.

You've put down roots.

You're part of a community.

- Oh, yeah.

- Take us back to the day that Ericcson was detained.

Tell us what happened.

- Um... that day, I remember very vividly.

It was, um, October 15, uh, 2025.

Right at lunch time.

He left to go get some food, some lunch for us.

Pulled out of his-- our driveway.

And as soon as he pulled out, five unmarked vehicles were waiting for him, surrounded his car, blocked his path.

Um... broke his window of his car and arrested him very violently.

All of this happened while I was watching.

While I was... - While you were watching.

- While I was there watching all this happen.

- Let me-- Let me bring Jessie into this for just a second.

Jessie, this story and what Jorge and Ericcson experienced.

How common is this in Sacramento in 2026?

- This is unfortunately all too common in 2026, not just in Sacramento, but in communities across the state and across the country.

- And, I guess, Councilman Guerra, you have your own personal story in terms of your own journey.

- Yeah.

- And when you hear a story like Jorge and Ericcson's, what does it bring up in you?

- This brings up terrible memories that I never thought would ever be repeated again.

In the mid 80s my family and I were farmworkers, and, uh, we were, like many families, a mixed status family.

You know, my sister was a US citizen.

My father had a-- was illegal permanent resident, a green card holder.

And my mother and brother and I were undocumented.

But we two faced deportation during this really heightened, uh, hateful politics.

And to me, to seeing that we have not learned from our mistakes.

And we're doing this again to people who are committed to our community, working in our community.

It's such a, such a tragedy in our history.

But more importantly, it's counterproductive.

And this is one of the reasons why the city, really engaged.

And in 2017, I pushed, uh, this, organization of a fuel network, a legal, uh, way, a legal education network and also to organize all our legal providers because I unfortunately fear that rhetoric coming back.

I never thought that it actually would get to the level of, of heightness that we see today that Jorge is feeling right now.

So Jorge, where is Ericcson now?

And how do you two communicate?

- He is currently at the detention center in Bakersfield.

Um, we communicate by... over the phone.

He calls me.

He's able to call, you know, whenever he has a chance or whenever the phones are working.

And also, he has visiting times.

Twice a week.

One time a-- two times a week, one time per day.

So between his family, myself and friends, we coordinate for visitation days to go visit him for one hour that day.

- For one hour.

- One hour.

- Um, and it's been how many months again?

- On the 15th of this month will be five months.

- Five months.

How is he holding up?

- He's... It's been rough.

Um, he's trying his best.

You know.

Hes... You can imagine being in there for not really knowing, you know, the reason why.

I mean, not being in... He's trying his best, you know?

- Sure.

- To make it.

- Sure.

Jessie, one of the things about, uh, Ericcson's case that, um, is a bit surprising to me is that Jorge and Ericcson, it's my understanding, were in the middle of a process.

And despite that, this has taken place.

Can you share a little bit of detail on that?

- Yeah.

Um, Jorge and Ericcson have been married since 2018.

Is that correct?

Um, and so at Opening Doors where we provide pro bono immigration legal services, we've been working with them, since 2021 to adjust Ericcson status based off of his marriage to a U.S.

citizen spouse.

Um, we've been-- we filed their-- it's called the I-130, and we've been in the process of following that.

And that was still, you know, actively underway at the point where Ericcson was detained.

- But... so they were, you know, as Bill Clinton used to say, they were working hard and playing by the rules.

- Thats right.

- And this happens, you know, from a policy standpoint, councilmember.

What does that say to people when you're telling them you, you represent the law.

- Mhm.

Yes.

- Okay.

- You represent government.

And government is always telling us to follow the rules.

Well they were following the rules.

And this takes place.

What does that really communicate to citizens?

And what do you think that impact is?

- It really creates a failure of trust in- in our federal government.

And because of the failure of our federal government for many years to address this problem responsibly, recognizing that we have mixed status families, our economics and how it works, how people are here actually trying to do it the right way.

It creates a mistrust.

And as a city, as a city government, we're trying to make sure that we're doing right by our own taxpayers.

Jorge here and Ericcson, are taxpayers, they've been giving and being active members here.

We have a responsibility as municipalities to ensure that they are treated with that same level of respect.

But more importantly, I think it's now a time where everyone must put that pressure on the federal government to get their head out of the sand and recognize what reality looks like.

I know it myself or our family.

All we did was come to work and were persecuted because of our, our family origin, our, our cultural origin.

- Well, respectfully, let me play devil's advocate for a second.

There are going to be some people who are observing this conversation and they're going to say, well, the person was illegal.

They were here illegally.

Councilman Guerra, you were here illegally.

And so therefore all they were doing was enforcing the law.

And so, you know, follow the law.

Now, the-the-the wrinkle in that is, um, obviously they were following the process that was dictated by the law.

But how do you respond?

And, and I'd like to hear from anyone who wants to speak on this, but starting with you, Councilman, how do you respond to the statement that all that ICE is doing, all that Homeland Security is doing, all that the administration is doing, is enforcing the law?

- You know, the fallacy is that the way that the federal government is enforcing is actually destroying Due Process.

One of the important-- -Really?

- Oh yes.

By-- - Tell us more about that.

By speeding up the enforcement and taking people away from a hearing.

Remember, the Fourth Amendment and the 14th amendment allow for Due Process of your body, self and liberty.

But if you're not allowed to actually show your case, and for people who actually did it the right way and got in line, then there-- that that is actually, de facto going against the Constitution.

- Now, Jessie, I see you nodding your head to what Councilman Guerra said.

But there are those who say, yes, that applies to citizens only.

But if you're not a citizen, you don't have access to any of those Due Process rights.

How do you respond to that or how is it your organization responds to that?

Because I'm sure this is not the first time you're hearing it.

- And that's just not true.

The Constitution applies to all of us in the United States, regardless of citizenship status.

But to go back to the question of whether someone entered the country without inspection or unauthorized.

Um, that, that happens.

And that's a civil infraction.

And it's really important that we look at the distinction between these civil and criminal infractions.

Entering the country without inspection is a civil infraction, like a speeding ticket or something along those lines.

That is not to say that, there should be a free pass to speed or to enter the country without inspection, but that the consequences should match the scenario.

And when we have people who are at risk of deportation back to home countries where they have a real valid fear of persecution, potentially even death because of their gender, sexual orientation, religious affiliation, or any of those things.

We simply cannot live in a society in which civil infractions are met with death penalty consequences.

- And so, when you, when you raise the stakes to that high, um, obviously this is a critical matter.

Without discussing anything, that would be inappropriate or compromise in case.

Tie this to the broader environment that's going on right now.

And what did people need to understand that, frankly, isn't usually communicated through the press or-or through, any of the other forms of media.

- Right.

So our immigration system in this country is incredibly complex and was overburdened even before the recent changes of the last year, year plus.

So in this example, you know, we've been working to adjust Ericcson's status for years.

And there's just such a backlog at USCIS, the agency that's in charge of processing that, that it takes an incredibly long time.

And, you know, I think it's important for people to understand that, there are folks like Jorge and Ericcson who are following the process as it is allowed to them.

And for advocates like us, all we are asking for is Due Process.

Consider Ericcson's application to adjust his status based off of his marriage to a U.S.

citizen.

Consider our attempts to advocate in front of immigration court on the repercussions to Ericcson, should he be deported back to his home country.

We're just asking for Due Proces - Incidentally, Jorge... I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but... It begs the question; Ericcson was in this process along with you to get this I-130 designation or this process.

And one question that comes up is this: How did they find Ericcson in the first place?

Because, the way that you describe how they-- how ICE showed up and ultimately took him away.

It's kind of like either it was like, you know, by sheer coincidence or something else.

What do you think?

- I think it was more targeted.

You know, maybe because of our, you know, we're gay couple or maybe because, you know, they're-- we're going through the legal process the right way.

They have all of information.

They have all the documents they need.

Because obviously you can't put anything false in those documents, going the right way.

So they know exactly where you live, where you work.

And I feel that's how they were able to find Ericcson.

And, you know, to add a little bit more, you know, he was so close to having his court date.

And then that's what happened.

And I feel, in my opinion, that that's how they're targeting people, because they... court dates almost coming up for the decision.

And then they go and pick them up.

- You know, Scott, that is an important point.

The fact that they had to trust the federal government, that they're going to give their information up to do it the right way.

And then this occurs.

I remember back when my family was applying from being-- for an adjustment status.

My dad was legally here.

He was a green card holder.

And the fear he did not want to apply because of the fear of being deported again.

And, um, and so many families went through that at a time.

They're willing to take that risk.

And so when you-- when a federal government or a government entity violates that trust, do it the right way to say, hey, I'm telling you where I am because I have the faith that I've been a good citizen, a good member of this community.

And then the result is we will never change that.

The Immigration Reform Act of nine-- of 1986 that Ronald Reagan signed changed the lives of so many.

It created entrepreneurs, business owners, so many people.

I've seen so many people that I've grown up with who become engineers, doctors, business owners as kids because of that, that created trust.

And all of that trust is now been eroded away.

- You know, that's a really excellent point.

A-and-and, Jorge... I want to know how has this affected your feeling as being a part of this community in terms of just how you feel every single day being a resident here in Sacramento and just going about your daily life.

- As far as the community, I feel, you know, feel great.

Um... It's more, um... on the federal level.

that kind of lost my trust.

Before I never really thought about it.

You know, I'm a citizen here.

Um, we're living our lives as we should be.

And it just lost my trust in that system and that, you know, the way that went about doing that.

Um, it just, you know, like he mentioned, we're just... I mean, never in a million years I would have thought, you know, this would have happened.

Going the right path, the right, you know, paperwork, everything.

And then for this to happen.

And just in general, Sacramento wise, I love it.

It's home.

It's always be you know where we met.

It's always going to be you know the our roots, our foundation.

- If you could speak to the rest of the country right now, okay?

People on all sides of this issue.

What do you want them to know?

- Um... That you hear about this on the news.

You might hear it, see it every day.

But... but they don't see is the human feel to it.

The human touch, the human, the-- what was left of the aftermath, you know, the emotions, the confusion and that, you know, we're-- you're not alone.

If this happens to you, you know that there's reach out.

Organizations are always there.

And, you know, there's always someone that, you know, could help you or will help you.

You just have to, you know... And keep the love between you know, between you and your partner, husband or wife.

And that's the most important part.

Don't let that fade away.

- Thank you.

Jessie, how many of these cases is Opening Doors handling right now?

- Every year we work with about, you know, 6 to 700 individuals in our immigration legal services program.

You know, maybe 3 to 4,000 people overall throughout the whole organization.

We provide a range of services from a simple, citizenship application or DACA renewal all the way up to, helping people apply for asylum or deportation removal defense.

We'll say that this is one of our, the types of cases that is more challenging.

Um, removal defense, particularly when someone is detained, is incredibly hard.

- I had asked Jorge earlier about the day that this took place.

Um... There's you were sharing with me an interesting bit of background on kind of the-the happenstance of what happened that day.

Can you share that again?

- Sure.

From our experience?

Sure.

-Yeah.

Well, you know, as I mentioned, um, one of my colleagues, has-- have been working with them for a number of years to adjust Ericcsons status.

And, um, the day that this happened, um, this attorney who-who, uh, has been working with them just so happened to be at the federal building, um, at a-- - Capitol Mall?

- Mhm.

Yeah.

So that has a USCIS office, an immigration court, and then an ICE office in the same, in the same building down on Capitol Mall.

And she happened to be there with one of her other clients who was accompanying them to an interview.

And so, Jorge and Ericcson were trying to call their attorney as all of this was happening.

And she was able to get there, you know, quicker than she otherwise would have been because, because she was right there.

And, you know, I think one of the things that's really important for people to understand is that immigration court is civil.

It's not criminal.

So there is no right to representation.

- What?

- There is no right to representation.

If you cannot find an attorney, if you cannot afford an attorney, you go through the process on your own and you would go through the process on your own if you do not speak English.

You would go through the process on your own if you are a minor, you would go through the process on your own if you are disabled.

There is no right to representation.

So as... as horrific as this experience has been for this couple, they were actually in a slightly better position in the fact that they already had an immigration attorney who was available to respond that same day.

- Wow.

- For this reasons why the city has really focused on creating a rapid response network, because those first few hours and preparation to it.

I mean, it's, it's a shame that we actually have to- to talk to people about having child custody documentations ready, power of attorneys ready.

Because they own homes, they own assets, they have kids.

And if they get picked up, many people probably can't even pass the citizenship exam, let alone know immigration law, which is more complex than most laws, in every case is almost different.

So you just can't have any random attorney.

- Oh, not only is every case different, but with this particular case we are working three different angles, trying to get this couple reunited.

Um, so it's, it's incredibly complex.

- And I believe what makes it more difficult, also, is their policies keep changing daily, weekly, monthly.

And that just makes it more difficult for everyone.

They're scrambling to catch up to the new policy or back off from an old policy.

And that just makes it even more, you know difficult.

- Can I add one of the new policies that is making this, um, just such a horrible experience for this family, but it's also an inefficient use of resources, is that there is no reason why Ericcson needs to be detained while he is working through this legal status.

Right?

He's- he's detained because he is a so-called “flight risk.” They've been here for decades.

They have roots in this community.

It's not just his husband who is a U.S.

citizen.

He has other family members who are U.S.

citizens and permanent residents.

Ericcson should be out on bond so that he can be with his family while the case works through the immigration court.

So it's- it's not just a level of cruelty that is unnecessary.

It's an inefficient use of public resources.

- Well, I would also wonder whether or not, from a financial standpoint, a burden, because a person potentially loses their job.

- Absolutely.

- And their assets.

So, uh--um, you know, a couple of weeks ago, there was a in the assembly, there was a honoring of the remaining survivors of Japanese internment.

My brother's wife's father, I-- he's kind of my father in law, too, was one of the people honored there.

And I've heard many stories, um, about that process.

And one of the things that's a Sacramento story is so much land and homes and assets were lost when exactly this type of situation took place.

Is anybody measuring that type of impact, given what you just said about how people who are detained are being kind of taken away from even being able to sustain themselves if they're successful in the process.

- I do think there needs to be, uh, a measurement of the total cost.

Just the five officers that showed up to go take in Ericcson.

It-it--its a-- it was a civil issue that they were charging him with, accusing him of.

Not the need of- of what we take for someone with a warrant who knows who has-- they may have a weapon.

Just those five officers, let alone then the economic impact.

I mean, one of the important things for any municipality or city is a stable workforce.

How can you have a stable workforce if- if there's question about your legal status, even when you've been following the law.

- Agreed.

And-and I actually want to give you the final word on this.

You're an elected official.

You're in the public sphere and you have a personal story.

For people who want to learn more about this issue or want to have a voice, what would you suggest?

In 30 words or less.

- In 30 words or less.

Number one, be involved.

Minnesota showed that when the community got involved, they stepped up for the minority community in their area.

Second, you hear Sacramento.

You can go to the Sacramento FUEL Network.

Sac--Sacramento FUEL Network .org and get information.

There are great organizations like Opening Doors, NorCal Resist and others.

California Immigrant Project, that are doing that.

Get involved.

And even if you donate a dollar to representation, that dollar helps someone access their constitutional right.

- And I think we'll leave it there.

Thank you all for coming.

And thank you, Jorge, for sharing your story.

- Thank you.

- And that's our show.

Thanks to our guests and thanks to you for watching Studio Sacramento.

I'm Scott Syphax.

See you next time, right here on KVIE.