Northwest now is supported in part by viewers like you.

Thank you.

While protests break out in Seattle and around the country over immigration policy, Ice rounds up undocumented immigrants with some U.S. citizens falling into the net.

The wide open U.S. border is finally closed and under control, but the Trump administration's deportation spree is now exposing decades of congressional fecklessness, having never tackled comprehensive immigration reform.

As Ice raids worksites and immigration court.

Tonight we hear from a local nonprofit and an immigration attorney who brings us the latest about what's happening and what immigrant families need to be doing.

And remember that class of immigrants we all know as the dreamers, they were stuck in limbo.

Well, as Steve Kiggins tells us, they still are.

The battle over immigration is next on northwest.

Now.

You.

A recent check of ICE's online performance dashboard indicates there have only been about 220 arrests originating out of the Seattle office in Washington, Oregon and Alaska in the entire fiscal year.

Although the number is lower than generally reported.

Ice also says that fully 72% had criminal convictions or charges pending.

But the University of California's deportation data project shows 277 Seattle office arrests in June alone, with a whopping 69% not previously convicted of a crime.

With that said, there's no data about whether they violated final deportation orders, which don't get listed as a conviction but by themselves are technically cause for deportation.

So there is some disagreement in the numbers out there, as all sides try to work their political objectives at the highest levels of government.

Washington state has been put on notice about its sanctuary policy, with the governor vowing to fight back on the streets.

It seems clear, though, that more people are being arrested around here and that for now, there's no community release.

They're mostly all going right into the Northwest Detention Center on Tacoma Tide Flats.

Remember the dreamers?

They were undocumented kids brought across the border as children.

They've been living in a gray area for years and were promised a pathway to citizenship.

As Steve Kiggins tells us, they remain where they've always been in limbo.

spoken with folks who are part of, or very closely knit within the Hispanic community here in the South Sound.

Some of them share with me a real sense of fear spreading through their community.

They fear speaking out, or fear that they can't call police if they're the victim of crime, or fear of being incarcerated and deported from the only country they've called home.

Breaks in my heart.

Jaime Ortiz made her way from Yakima to the Northwest Detention Center in Tacoma Thursday morning.

She says Ice detained her husband on Monday.

He was on his way to work supporting his family.

I have a chronic condition.

I can't work.

Why not?

Ortiz shared this clip with northwest now.

The video was posted to her social media page.

The tracks ice activity in and around Yakima.

This video, shot Thursday morning, shows immigration officials detaining a man along a busy street where he says scenes like this are only increasing.

You don't know whether they're going to be sent to alcohol, or you don't know whether they're going to be flown over the ocean and dropped out of the back of a plane or whatever this chaos is can really teach us to continue to be strong.

Priscilla Addario is deputy director at Centro, a community based nonprofit serving Latino and Indigenous populations with social education and small business services and more in the heart of Tacoma Hilltop neighborhood.

This, Addario says the threat of deportation has gripped her community in fear.

The hate crimes have increased, but people are being more quiet about because they're scared of being deported.

This video says it's not only her clients that are at risk, she's worried about her own future, too.

And I'm having a baby soon, so that's also going to become a mixed status for me.

And now I have to start thinking, well, if I get taken, do I have to start creating a family plan where I leave my kid with somebody else because I don't know the reality of DACA in the future, does it?

There?

He says she's holding on to hope and praying the chaos doesn't tear her community or family apart.

All we wanted from the beginning is that American dream, right?

The American dream to me is safety, love.

In a place where crime does not exist in Tacoma, Steve begins northwest.

Now.

Joining us now are Aiden Perkinson, the operations manager for advocates for Immigrants in Detention Northwest, and Elizabeth Pankey and immigration attorney with the Northwest Immigrant Rights Project.

welcome both of you to northwest.

Now great to have a discussion about a very hot topic right now.

Immigration and all the issues surrounding it.

Let me say from the outside, you know, once you start digging into this and trying to understand it, it is so complex.

I don't I don't know that anybody probably knows all the rules I'm hoping you to do, especially as an attorney.

You've got to know, Elizabeth.

But boy, is it complex.

Let's start, though, with a little discussion about the organizations you represent and what you do.

Aiden, tell us about advocates for immigrants in detention.

Yeah, so we're a 501 C3 nonprofit.

We were founded in 2009, born out of a group of concerned community members who had been providing assistance in various forms to people at the detention center since it opened in 2005.

We are almost entirely volunteer operated, and we rely heavily on individual donors.

No government money.

We have multiple programs.

Our most prominent one is our Welcome Center, where we have outside the facility, an RV and some tents to support everyone who is released and a system with everything from transport, clothing, luggage, food to housing.

Are you getting those releases anymore?

Or once they go in and under these conditions, they're basically on a plane in to Boeing Field and they're out.

What's what's been your experience lately?

Yeah.

So releases have been steadily dropping over the last several years.

Down from a peak in 2021, 22 of 1700 plus.

In both of those years, we received about 900 guests last year.

We're down to about 200 at this year.

Okay.

Elizabeth, you're an immigration attorney, the Northwest Immigrant Rights Project.

Talk a little bit about, your organization's mission and the role you play.

Thank you, Tom, and thank you so much for the invitation to speak on your program.

So I'm one of the, directing attorneys at Northwest Immigrant Rights Project's Tacoma office, and I oversee our work, providing representation and orientation to individuals detained at the Northwest Ice Processing center.

Our organization has four offices in Washington state.

We have a team of about 200 people in those offices.

And we serve low income immigrants, primarily with direct representation before the immigration court and before USCIS.

And we also do some advocacy work and impact litigation.

What's been your experience with fewer releases and more direct hook ups?

I don't have a better, better name for that.

But I mean, actually, if somebody gets detained and sent, they really don't have a chance to call you or to get involved with an attorney.

Am I am I correct in that?

That's correct.

Unfortunately, many of the typical processes that we see for individuals detained in Tacoma have been sped up.

And really, what the Trump administration has been doing has been encroaching on, due process rights, and limiting access to attorneys for individuals who are detained.

One of the things I've heard and talk to me a little bit about this is that you may have a legitimate asylum claim or, you know, immigration status, hearing before a judge.

You have an open case, but you'll go into court, judge will say case dismissed, which means you're instantly then subject.

You're in violation.

You're going to get picked up and deported just by dismissing the case.

Have you experienced that?

Do I have the mechanics of that?

Right.

Sent me straight.

So that has been happening to some individuals in the Seattle court.

So that's, the Seattle court serves individuals in Washington state who are in removal proceedings, who are non detained.

And so the what happened in many instances is that the government asked to dismiss the case.

And to the respondent in immigration proceedings, this initially sounded like good news.

Yeah.

Right.

You're not going to have any future hearings on your case.

You're not going to have to show up to this court.

And so in many cases, someone would agree to this, or even if they opposed, the judge would still grant the dismissal over their opposition.

And what happened was they would dismiss the case, Ice agents would be waiting outside the courtroom and would take individuals into custody, and place them in a process called expedited removal.

And so this is a process where unless someone claims a fear of return to their home country, then they can be removed expeditiously within a matter of days.

And the only, process that needs to happen is that they need to get a travel document from their home country.

So, Aiden, what are families telling you?

You're out there outside the detention center?

First thing I would say is, if I was a family member and we were undocumented or.

No, we had overstayed a visa or no knew we had some kind of a paperwork issue with our immigration status.

I don't know why I'd show up there to necessarily support whoever it may be, my kid or husband or whoever it might be in the detention center.

Are you are you experiencing that as well?

And and what are families telling you?

What's been their experience with that?

Yeah.

So to my knowledge, we're not seeing any undocumented people making visits to the detention center.

We have gotten calls and emails from some asking for information about that.

We tried to give them the most up to date information we can on the status and frequency of ice activity at the courthouses.

And usually will recommend that they do not visit.

We have seen legal residents and other, lawful immigrants visit.

There's definitely a lot more people visiting right now which would track, given that the population of the facility has almost doubled this time last year.

Even even if you're even if you're all square with the feds, though, on your documents, in your paperwork, that still that doesn't necessarily prevent you from getting jammed up, right?

I mean, it seems like there's just a, an elevated risk out there.

Am I correct in that or.

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah.

What's what's your take on that?

Elizabeth.

If I had all my paperwork, I'm like, hey, we've had cases where the where the person will say, oh no, I'm all good.

I've got a work visa.

Having overstayed everything.

My paperwork is current and you're still in detention for a while because I got to figure it out and make double sure.

And they don't like the fact that you, you know, they just want to check you out.

We've seen a huge increase in immigration enforcement recently.

And so even people who, you know, like I mentioned with the Seattle court, they're attending their hearings.

They're, they're they're showing up.

They're doing what the court has asked of them.

We have seen individuals detained, and they have been told, you know, you're going to fight your case from detention now, even though, immigration court has very high rates of people appearing for their hearings, they want their chance to have their day in court.

They want to be able to present their case, tell their story to the immigration judge and ultimately get a determination on whether or not they are able to stay in the United States.

And unfortunately, once people are in detention, we have seen time and again there is a chilling effect on whether or not they want to fight their case, because even if, you know, their, their life may endanger maybe, maybe in danger in their home country.

They may have family members and loved ones here in the United States.

But detention is a very, traumatic and stressful environment.

And so many people decide not to fight their cases once they are in detention.

Let's talk a little bit about a news item, too.

And and, Aiden, like your input on this?

We're a sanctuary state, and the Trump administration has recently sent out a document that says, listen, you're a sanctuary.

Knock it off.

You're going to lose federal funding.

The governor and the attorney general have vowed to fight that.

Is there any practical effect of being a sanctuary city or a sanctuary state in the work that you do?

Aiden does that.

Does that assist give families confidence, does it not?

Is it a moot point?

What's put it in some perspective for me?

Yeah, for us it's somewhat of a moot point.

We are lucky that we've got a pretty good city council here in Tacoma who will listen to us, and other community organizers on immigration matters.

But in terms of not having the city police cooperate with Ice, for instance?

Yeah.

I mean, that's not something I have any real visibility on.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I would say regardless of whether, you know, we're considered a sanctuary state or city, there's a huge amount of fear in the community right now.

And that, unfortunately, is the Trump administration's goal, and that's ISIS goal.

People are scared to leave their homes.

They're scared to go to work.

They're scared to take their children to school.

And this has widespread effects, right?

When, you know, people are running small businesses and their staff are not showing up because they're so scared, someone could be the victim of a crime, and they might not report that to the police because they're scared of any government interaction.

Yeah.

So, that's really what we're facing right now.

So if they have that, if they have that fear because their documents are in order, what's your advice to them about trying to go through the process to get their documents in order?

Is that even possible right now or.

No, as soon as they come in contact with the system, they're gone.

What's what advice?

What are you telling people who call you up and say, Elizabeth, I'm I'm good here, I'm good here, this expired or I've got a little problem here.

What should I do?

People definitely have options.

There are many forms of immigration relief that people could be eligible for.

And really, it's important to get that information out there because of the fear that community, that our community is facing, we have shifted to providing many of our Know your Rights presentations, via webinar instead of having in-person events because people are scared to show up in person.

So there is a lot of misinformation out there.

There are a lot of bad actors who are taking advantage of people in vulnerable situations, who are desperate for, you know, someone to represent them on their case.

They might be a notary instead of a lawyer.

So so they're scams?

Yes.

They're scamming people.

Okay.

Now, Aiden, you're shaking your head.

Have you.

Have you heard about this?

Yes.

Talk a little bit about what happens there.

Because if somebody is desperate, it kind of reminds me, like of of hooking up with a coyote to get across the border.

You know, there's a real potential for abuse there.

Sounds like the same way.

A potential to be scammed here.

If you really want to get your your documents in order.

Yeah.

It's definitely something that's happening.

There was one case I'm aware of recently where a woman paid $3,000 to an attorney to get her partner released on bond.

The lawyer made all sorts of promises.

The partner is not eligible for bond to begin with.

They have not gotten that money back.

We did some investigation.

It turns out he's been disbarred in two states.

Wow.

Wow.

So that that desperation level really makes people vulnerable?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Elizabeth, you know, we've we've heard about the app.

Kristi Noem has been on television saying, you know, download the app and enter your information.

Deport yourself, do things in an orderly way.

And, you preserve your opportunity to get in.

If we ever get immigration reform, or an a meaningful pathway to citizenship that has some volume to it, you can get back in line and pop on in.

Is that is that real, do you think or is or what if what is your advice about people self deporting and kind of outing themselves on the government's app.

Yeah, it's definitely dangerous.

Any you know what the government is promising.

We still haven't seen their their promising to people in the detention center $1,000 if you agree to self-deport.

You know, we haven't seen that come to fruition.

There even, you know, ice is going through the pods in the detention center and making these offers even to represented individuals.

When any decision like that should go directly to, an individual's attorney so that they can advise their client on what the best option is.

Again, this is a situation where there's a lot of misinformation out there and we really hope that people are able to connect with attorneys or nonprofit organizations like ours so that they can get the right information about what their options are.

And do you refer to legal?

Do you?

I know you're not a lawyer, but when when part of your welcome center, part of this assistance piece that you provide is maybe talk a little bit about with some of the elements are of that, and is there a legal piece to that.

Yeah.

So we don't provide any legal advice.

Right.

We do have a list of nonprofit legal providers from Washington that will make available to people who are released, as well as visitors, family members, anyone who needs it.

We also regularly give people the phone numbers for, when they're detained.

We tell them that should be their first call, as is able to represent so many people.

Have you been asked it all about the app?

Has it?

We said, hey, Aiden, what about this whole app thing?

Should I be doing this?

Hasn't come up with family or no.

And part of that is probably because we are very clear.

We cannot offer you any sound legal advice as we are not lawyers.

What's your gut tell you about about that you've been in you've been working in immigration and in this issue for a while.

How do you view the government's efforts here to kind of self-report and self-deport that rhymes?

Yeah, that's a tricky one.

You know, there are, I think, some advantages potentially to self deportation and that you can face a, lesser ban from reentering the country.

Of course, you have to weigh that against not being able to see family and children for potentially up to a decade.

Yeah, yeah.

And that's probably something that really hits.

People talk a little bit, maybe a little anecdotally then about your experience with the families.

You deal with that.

To me, I can see somebody being able to handle it for themselves and just trying to get their paperwork smart or straight or deporting or whatever it may take.

It's the family and kids and loved ones that they leave behind.

That's got to be the difficult part.

Talk a little bit about that.

Yeah.

I mean, it's really tough with the little kids because they aren't able to really understand what's going on.

I know for a lot of them, the detention center is a very scary place to me.

And so then their parents have to weigh up the potential trauma of that with the benefits of getting to see their other parent who's detained, potentially for the last time in many years.

So, Elizabeth, I, I'm going to ask you to kind of broaden your your legal scope here to kind of national policy, but because you work with it all the time, I think you'd be a good person to ask about this, I don't think, but maybe not nobody I don't I think very few people have an issue with deporting Trent de Agua and gang bangers and hardcore criminals and people with massive criminal backgrounds.

Get them out.

I don't think that's controversial.

And if it is, well, you just have a different perspective.

With that said, the people who are doing the jobs we need them to do where there is no labor to do certain things, where people who are into to work legally and okay, their card expired, but they still go to Wenatchee and pick apples every year.

What do we need to fix this?

I mean, we keep saying come comprehensive immigration reform and a pathway to citizenship, but Congress just never delivers.

They can't get it done.

When you look at the process and what's needed, what do people need to know that you know that you would like them to know about this, if that makes sense.

So you'd like me to propose an immigration reform which will solve the I know that broken system, but maybe 1 or 2 things that would really help this.

That's a good question.

Basically, the immigration system has been broken for decades.

Every time there is a reform which is passed, there is also something taken away.

There's there's, you know, something built into the system that makes it, very unworkable.

And I think, most people looking at this situation don't realize how complex, and how many barriers exist in the system today.

So even if you want to do it right, it is so complex.

Yes, exactly.

And as you were mentioning before with the app, you know, someone who can self-deport and maybe has the chance to come back in the future.

The reality is there are very few options for individuals who do want to come to the United States in a lawful way.

And, you know, currently, we do have asylum law, which I would say is a bedrock of our, you know, legal system, which provides a way for people who are fleeing, you know, being harmed or killed in their home country, that they are able to ask for protection from the United States.

And the Trump administration has been chipping away and eroding all of those basic rights for individuals.

They are following the rules.

They are turning themselves in at the border.

They're saying this is who I am.

This is my identity.

This is where I'm going to stay.

I've been, you know, threatened or harmed, or my family has, faced harm in my home country.

And I would like to seek asylum in the United States, and they are put in jail.

They are told you're not going to be eligible for release on recognizance or a bond, and your case is going to be fast tracked.

Yeah.

They used to call that catch and release.

No more of that.

And a lot of it has that a lot of that come though, as a result of failing later to keep their paperwork current is we have so many overstays and so many other problems.

I mean, it seems and I think that gets back to the, the complication.

So the asylum, the asylum system kind of it seems like it broke of its own weight to some degree.

Is that legitimate?

Well, it, you know, it hasn't been provided the proper resources from the government to, run in a, in a fair and efficient manner.

And, you know, judge other courtrooms and.

Yes, there there's a huge backlog.

There are people who have cases who have been who are eager to present their cases to a judge.

And they've been reset over and over, for many years.

We still have cases which were reset during Covid, and still have not gone forward, because there's not enough judges to hear those cases.

You know, the government has provided there is, you know, statutory funding for a program called the Legal Orientation Program, which is, exists at detention centers around the country.

The goal of this program is to provide information and orientation to individuals who are unrepresented in the immigration court.

And providing this funding actually helps the system run more efficiently because people show up to court prepared, they request fewer continuances, they know what their options are.

And nope, was one organization which had this legal orientation program, and that contract was canceled in April of this year.

And so we are fortunate to have a variety of funding sources.

And so our organization is still running.

We are still, you know, providing to the best of our ability, orientation and, and representation to individuals who are detained.

But there are other organizations who had to close their doors as a result of losing that funding, which isn't helping the whole system work.

It's not greasing the wheels with in the court system.

Great conversation.

I know it's very complex, a lot of moving parts here, but I appreciate both your time here on northwest now.

Thank you so much, Tom.

Getting violent offenders and gang members out of the country isn't controversial, but what is controversial is accidentally jamming up U.S. citizens and, as some would argue, so, is rounding up hardworking people with no criminal backgrounds doing a lot of jobs Americans don't want in this country's fields, factories, hotels, and households.

We are in a demographic pinch, without sufficient people to fund Social Security and Medicare or do all the jobs available right now saying nothing about all the additional jobs the Trump administration wants to stimulate with tariffs and the reshoring of American manufacturing.

The bottom line importing unchecked poverty is ridiculous, and so is flooding the zone, with high tech H-1b workers providing cheap labor to billionaires.

It's Congress that needs to find a way to welcome a steady stream of highly motivated immigrants and entrepreneurs who are ready to work, contribute eagerly and fully acculturated.

That is, after all, how America was built.

I hope this program got you thinking and talking.

You can find this program on the web at cbc.ca.

Org.

Stream it through the PBS app or listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

That's going to do it for this edition of northwest.

Now, until next time, I'm Tom Larsen.

Thanks for watching.

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