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♪♪ >>> HI, AND WELCOME TO "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE."

I'M COLLEEN O'DAY IN FOR DAVID CRUZ, WHO IS OFF THIS WEEK.

NOT MANY NEW JERSEYANS CAST BALLOTS IN THE PRIMARY ELECTION.

THE ELECTION WAS BIG NEWS.

GOVERNOR PHIL MURPHY FINALLY HAS AN OPPONENT IN REPUBLICAN JACK CIATTARELLI AND AT LEAST FOUR LEGISLATORS WON'T BE GOING BACK TO TRENTON IN JANUARY AFTER LOSING ON TUESDAY.

HERE TO TALK MORE ABOUT THE PRIMARY IS MICAH RASMUSSEN FROM BREYER UNIVERSITY.

THANKS FOR JOINING US, MICAH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THE REPUBLICAN -- SORRY.

I DID THAT LAST TIME.

THE REPUBLICAN GUBERNATORIAL PRIMARY WAS THE MAIN EVENT TUESDAY.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE RESULTS?

>> WELL, THERE WEREN'T TOO MANY SURPRISES.

THE PEOPLE WON WHO WE THOUGHT WERE GOING TO WIN.

THERE WERE SURPRISES, THOUGH, IN HOW WELL OR HOW NOT WELL PEOPLE UNDER THAT DID.

FOR EXAMPLE, PHIL RIZZO DID BETTER THAN EXPECTED, RIGHT, FOR A CHALLENGER, FIRST TIME OUT.

SINGH DID NOT DO AS WELL AS HE LET EVERYBODY KNOW HE WAS GOING TO DO.

YOU KNOW, THE PEOPLE WHO HAD THE PARTY SUPPORT WON THE ELECTIONS.

THERE WERE A FEW SURPRISES.

VALERIE HUDDLE DID NOT DO AS WELL AS WE THOUGHT THAT SHE MIGHT DO, A STRONG CHALLENGER AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN ON EVEN FOOTING WITH EACH OTHER OVER THE YEARS.

SERENA DID VERY WELL.

AND I WAS -- I WAS MAYBE MOST SURPRISED AT HOW HOLLY'S RUNNING MATES IN DISTRICT 39 DID NOT DO SO WELL AFTER SHE JUST WON THE PARTY CONVENTION TO TAKE THE SEAT FROM BOB, THE SENATE SEAT.

AND SO, I EXPECTED HER RUNNING MATES TO DO BETTER.

THE FACT THAT THEY DIDN'T REALLY, TO ME, CALLS INTO QUESTION WHETHER OR NOT SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN CHOSEN IF IT WAS DECIDED IN A PRIMARY ELECTION.

>> YEAH, LET ME ASK ABOUT THE LINE, WHICH I THINK YOU ALLUDED TO.

YOU SAID THAT CANDIDATES WHO HAD THE LINE WERE THE ONES WHO WON AND YOU MENTIONED THAT 37th DISTRICT RACE.

I MEAN, GORDON JOHNSON WON 3-1, WHICH JUST REALLY SURPRISED ME.

WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT HOW STRONG HAVING THAT PARTY SUPPORT IS?

>> WELL, THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION, AND I DON'T THINK THAT AT THE LINE AND THE POWER OF THE LINE WHO SAYS THAT IT'S EVER BEEN WORTH 50 POINTS.

SO THERE WAS A LOT MORE GOING ON IN THAT IN 37.

I WOULD SAY THAT ASSEMBLYWOMAN VALERIE HUTTLE'S CAMPAIGN DID NOT RESONATE WELL AT ALL.

SHE DID PROBABLY THE POOREST OF ANY OF THE CHALLENGER RACES THAT WE WERE WATCHING ON TUESDAY AND THAT'S SAYING SOMETHING BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONE THAT WE THOUGHT WAS THE HOTTEST GOING IN SO SHE CLEARLY WAS NOT ABLE TO PUT TOGETHER A CAMPAIGN THAT RESONATED.

SHE ALSO HAD A LOT THAT WAS THROWN AT HER BUT IT WAS CLEARLY MORE THAN THE LINE THAT DIDN'T WORK FOR HER.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE GUBERNATORIAL RACE AND TALK ABOUT THE SO-CALLED TRUMP FACTOR, YOU HAD RIZZO AND SINGH THAT WERE KIND OF TRIPPING OVER THEMSELVES.

CIATTARELLI DID SAY HE SUPPORTED TRUMP AND HIS POLICIES.

HOW MUCH OF A ROLE DO YOU THINK TRUMP PLAYED IN THE ELECTION ON TUESDAY NIGHT?

>> WELL, JACK HAD TO DO THAT.

HE HAD TO SEND A MESSAGE THAT HE WAS BEHIND THE PEOPLE THAT HALF OF HIS PARTY IN THE STATE CONTINUE TO CONSIDER TO BE THE STANDARD BEARER OF THEIR PARTY.

YOU KNOW, ONE OUT OF EVERY TWO VOTES, IF YOU LOOK AT WHO VOTED FOR RIZZO AND YOU LOOK AT WHO VOTED FOR SINGH, ONE OUT OF EVERY TWO VOTES ON ELECTION NIGHT WERE PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL LOYAL TO TRUMP.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S REALLY SHOCKING IN A STATE WHERE TRUMP HAS A PROVEN TRACK RECORD AS GENERAL ELECTION POISON, AS PRESIDENT TRUMP -- FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP DOES, BUT IT'S STILL ASTOUNDING THAT HIS SUPPORTERS COMPRISE HALF OF GOP PRIMARY TURNOUT IN THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY, AND THAT'S AN INDICATION OF HOW JACK HAS REALLY GOT TO WATCH HIMSELF OVER THE COURSE OF THE NEXT SIX MONTHS TO REALLY CONTINUE TO RIDE THAT LINE.

HE DOESN'T WANT TO BE LOOKING OVER HIS SHOULDER TO MAKE SURE THE TRUMP PEOPLE ARE WITH HIM BETWEEN NOW AND NOVEMBER.

>> DO YOU THINK THERE'S ANYTHING THAT WOULD LOSE HIM THOSE TRUMP VOTES?

I MEAN, I NOTED THAT THERE IS A LIBERTARIAN WHO FILED TO RUN AS AN INDEPENDENT.

NOT SURE IF HE'LL STAY ON THE BALLOT.

HE GOT, I THINK, HE FILED WITH ABOUT 1,000 SIGNATURES.

YOU NEED 800.

I CAN'T IMAGINE THE CIATTARELLI CAMPAIGN WOULDN'T CHALLENGE THAT TO TRY TO KNOCK HIM OFF.

BUT IF THE TRUMP PEOPLE WOULD VOTE FOR ANYONE ELSE, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE A LIBERTARIAN, RIGHT?

OTHERWISE -- THEY'RE CERTAINLY NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR MURPHY.

>> WELL, THE -- I THINK THE BIGGER QUESTION IS, DO THEY STAY HOME, RIGHT?

YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE -- THAT'S THE EMERGING QUESTION, NOT JUST IN NEW JERSEY, BUT AROUND THE COUNTRY.

DO TRUMP SUPPORTERS SHOW UP AND VOTE WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP IS NOT ON THE BALLOT?

THAT'S GOING TO BE THE QUESTION.

ON PRIMARY NIGHT, HALF OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY DID.

AND HALF OF THE PARTY WAS READY TO MOVE ON.

THE QUESTION IS, HOW MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE DECIDE TO SIT ON THEIR HANDS OR STAY HOME OR NOT VOTE IN NOVEMBER.

>> AND WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL BE THE KEY ISSUES IN THE FALL CAMPAIGN?

YOU KNOW, COVID HAS BEEN SUCH A, YOU KNOW, A GIANT PRESENCE HERE FOR MORE THAN A YEAR.

BUT PROPERTY TAXES ARE USUALLY KIND OF WHAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT IN NEW JERSEY.

>> AND THERE IS AN OPENING THERE FOR JACK, CONSIDERING THAT IT IS STILL AN IMPORTANT ISSUE TO MANY VOTERS.

IT'S A SLEEPER ISSUE.

IF WE DO MOVE ON FROM THE PANDEMIC, RIGHT, REMEMBER, THIS IS -- PANDEMIC HAS BEEN FRONT AND CENTER ON EVERYBODY'S MINDS FOR THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF SO IT'S GOING TO BE HARD TO SHAKE THAT.

AND ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE GOVERNOR MURPHY, YOU NOW WANT TO ACCRUE THE BENEFIT OF HAVING GONE THROUGH ALL THAT PAIN WITH THE ENTIRE STATE AND MANAGED THAT CRISIS, SO YOU DON'T NECESSARILY WANT TO TURN THE PAGE IN TERMS OF A CAMPAIGN ISSUE.

YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT YOUR RECORD OF ACCOMPLISHMENT.

HE CERTAINLY HAS OTHER BIG ACCOMPLISHMENTS THAT HE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT, $15 AN HOUR MINIMUM WAGE, MARIJUANA LEGALIZATION, RIGHT, THESE ARE THINGS HE CAMPAIGNED ON.

IF YOU'RE JACK, YOU DEFINITELY WANT TO TURN THE PAGE.

YOU DEFINITELY WANT TO GET TO SOME OF THOSE FISCAL ISSUES.

WHAT ARE WE NOW GOING TO DO WITH THE -- I'VE BEEN IN POLITICS IN NEW JERSEY FOR 30 YEARS.

WE'VE NEVER BEEN IN A SITUATION WHERE THERE'S BEEN MORE THAN ENOUGH MONEY TO GO AROUND.

WHAT DO WE DO WITH THIS $10 BILLION THAT WE HAVE GOT TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO WITH, STIMULUS MONEY AND REVENUE PROJECTIONS?

HOW ARE WE GOING TO MAKE THAT INVESTMENT?

IF YOU ARE GOVERNOR MURPHY, YOU SHOULD PROBABLY BE THINKING ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO FOR PROPERTY TAXPAYERS, BECAUSE THAT IS IS THE ONE VULNERABILITY, I THINK.

>> YEAH, SO, HE'S GOT THIS NEW REBATE THAT IS GOING OUT.

I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S THE TERM FOR IT.

BUT GOING TO FAMILIES.

BUT YOU KNOW, THE PROPERTY TAX REBATE IS STILL NOT FULLY FUNDED OR IT'S CERTAINLY SEEMS TO BE UNDERFUNDED.

VERY QUICKLY, WHAT DO YOU THINK MURPHY MIGHT DO WITH THAT EXTRA MONEY?

>> I THINK WHAT WE LEARNED IN JANUARY, IN GEORGIA, IN THE TWO SPECIAL ELECTIONS IS DON'T BE OVERLY COMPLICATED.

BE PRETTY SIMPLE.

THE STIMULUS MONEY HELPED.

THE PROMISE OF SENDING A NEW CHECK HELPED.

SO, DON'T OVERTHINK IT.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT ULTIMATELY HIS ADVISORS ARE GOING TO COME BACK TO IF THEY'RE LOOKING AT WHAT HAS WORKED.

>> GREAT.

MICAH, THANK YOU SO MUCH AGAIN FOR YOUR TIME.

IT WAS GREAT HAVING YOU HERE.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, COLLEEN.

>>> NOW LET'S BRING IN OUR PANEL OF REPORTERS TO FURTHER BREAK DOWN THE ELECTION RESULTS.

AND THE OTHER BIG NEWS OF THE WEEK.

JOINING US, TODAY, ARE KATHERINE LANDER GIVEN NEW JERSEY BUREAU CHIEF FOR POLITICO, FRED SNOWFLAK, A COLUMNIST WITH INSIDER NJ, AND BRENT JOHNSON, A STATE HOUSE REPORTER WITH NJ ADVANCED MEDIA.

WELCOME, PANEL.

LET'S START WITH THE ELECTION.

I WANT TO START BY ASKING EACH OF YOU WHAT IT IS THAT YOU FOUND EITHER MOST SURPRISING OR MOST INTERESTING FROM THE TUESDAY NIGHT RESULTS.

KATHERINE, HOW ABOUT YOU FIRST?

>> I THINK I WOULD GO WITH JOHNSON, JUST HOW MUCH JOHNSON WON BY.

I WASN'T EXPECTING SUCH A LARGE WIN.

I MEAN, ESPECIALLY SINCE BOTH CANDIDATES, I MEAN, THEY HAVE REALLY SIMILAR, NEARLY IDENTICAL VOTING RECORDS.

YOU KNOW, JOHNSON WAS OBVIOUSLY FAVORED TO WIN BECAUSE HE HAD THE INSTITUTIONAL SUPPORT, BUT I THINK JUST SEEING THE AMOUNT, IT WAS LIKE ALMOST, WHAT, 75%?

I MEAN, THAT IS JUST ASTONISHING TO ME.

>> YEAH.

I HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOU THERE.

I JUST -- I COULD HAVE NEVER IMAGINED THAT.

BRENT, HOW ABOUT YOU?

WHAT WAS MOST STRIKING TO YOU?

>> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT STRIKING BECAUSE I KNEW JACK WAS GOING TO WIN AND HE STILL WON BY A DECENT MARGIN, BUT THE FACT THAT RIZZO AND SINGH TOOK, YOU KNOW, ABOUT 50% OF THE VOTE.

IF THERE WAS ONE CANDIDATE, ONE TRUMP-SUPPORTING CANDIDATE, THE RACE LIKELY WOULD HAVE BEEN A LOT CLOSER.

SO, YOU KNOW, NEW JERSEY'S A BLUE STATE OVERALL, BUT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY -- EVEN IN THE STATE LIKE THIS, STILL REALLY SUPPORTS DONALD TRUMP, AND THAT'S GOING TO BE AN INTERESTING FACTOR AS WE GO FORWARD WITH THE GENERAL ELECTION.

>> AND FRED, HOW ABOUT YOU?

WHAT DID YOU FIND?

>> I WOULD AGREE WITH THE COMMENT, I WAS SURPRISED AT HOW WELL THE TRUMP CANDIDATES DID, SO TO SPEAK, AND AS WE HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING ALREADY, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS FOR JACK CIATTARELLI.

I MEAN, THE REPUBLICANS IN THE STATE ARE STILL DIVIDED AND LET'S REMEMBER THAT DEMOCRATS OUTNUMBER REPUBLICANS ON THE REGISTRATION LIST BY ABOUT MORE THAN A MILLION VOTES.

SO, I MEAN, IT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT FOR HIM TO WIN THIS RACE IF ALREADY REPUBLICANS ARE OUTNUMBERED BY SO MUCH AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS DIVIDED ITSELF.

I MEAN, THOSE 150,000 PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR PHIL RIZZO AND HIRSH SINGH, ARE ALL OF THEM -- HOW MANY OF THEM ARE GOING TO VOTE FOR JACK?

I DON'T REALLY KNOW.

OBVIOUSLY, I DON'T THINK ALL OF THEM ARE.

AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO PHOTO FOR PHIL MURPHY, SO THEY MAY JUST VOTE NOT AT ALL OR VOTE FOR THE LIBERTARIAN CANDIDATE THAT COLLEEN WAS TALKING ABOUT A FEW MOMENTS AGO.

>> FRED, STAYING WITH YOU.

LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT BOTH RIZZO AND SINGH.

I'M WONDERING WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THEIR FUTURES IN POLITICS IN NEW JERSEY.

I MEAN, CERTAINLY, I -- SINGH, WE'VE KNOWN FOR MANY YEARS.

HE'S NOW 0-4 IN ELECTIONS SINCE 2017.

DO YOU THINK HE HAS A FUTURE?

AND HOW ABOUT RIZZO?

>> I DID GO TO A FEW RIZZO EVENTS AND A FEW SINGH EVENTS AND YOU KNOW, THESE PEOPLE HAVE REACHED A VERY ALMOST FANATICAL AT TIMES.

THE SHORT ANSWER IS YES, I'M SURE HIRSH SINGH IS GOING TO STICK AROUND.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE COULD RUN FOR AGAIN BUT I SAW THAT RIZZO SENT OUT, I GUESS SORT OF A CONCESSION FACEBOOK MESSAGE BUT BASICALLY DIDN'T CONGRATULATE CIATTARELLI BUT TALKED ABOUT HOW THE FIGHT CONTINUES.

SO HE'S STILL GOING TO BE OUT THERE.

I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE SAW IT.

HE'S STILL GOING TO CAMPAIGN IN NOVEMBER FOR HIS CORE ISSUES, WHICH WOULD BE MEDICAL FREEDOM AND PRO-LIFE AND PRO SECOND AMENDMENT SO I'M SURE HE'S STILL GOING TO BE OUT THERE.

I DON'T THINK HE'S GOING AWAY.

RICHARD'S GOING TO BE -- LONG IN ADVANCE FOR REPUBLICANS.

>> RIGHT, RIGHT, BECAUSE THEY NEED TO UNITE BEHIND CIATTARELLI IF THEY HAVE A CHANCE.

>> YES.

>> HOW ABOUT SINGH, BRENT?

I MEAN, IS HE JUST KIND OF NOW RELEGATED TO PERENNIAL CANDIDATE STATUS?

>> I MEAN, YOU KNOW, HE'S SHOWN THAT HE WILL -- HE WAS WILLING TO RUN FOUR TIMES, SO I WOULDN'T PUT IT PAST HIM TO RUN A FIFTH TIME.

HE HASN'T RUN FOR STATE LEGISLATURE YET.

AND YOU KNOW, THAT WAS ONE THING I WAS THINKING THAT, YOU KNOW, BOTH OF THEM JUMPED RIGHT TO THE GOVERNOR'S RACE, AND I GUESS THAT'S FOLLOWING TRUMP'S PATTERN OF JUMPING RIGHT INTO THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE.

BUT IT'S POSSIBLE THEY COULD GO INTO A REALLY RED DISTRICT.

THERE CERTAINLY ARE PARTS OF THE STATE THAT ARE REALLY RED AND SUPPORT TRUMP.

IF YOU DRIVE THROUGH SUSSEX AND PARTS OF OCEAN COUNTY, YOU WOULD THINK YOU'RE IN TRUMPVILLE.

MAYBE THAT'S THE ROUTE.

BUT TIME WILL TELL.

>> KATHERINE, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE MURPHY CAMPAIGN AS WE GO INTO THE FALL?

DOES HE HAVE MORE POSITIVES THAN NEGATIVES?

WHAT DO YOU THINK HE'S GOING TO WIND UP CAMPAIGNING -- WHAT WILL HIS MAIN ISSUES BE, DO YOU THINK?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK HE'S MOSTLY -- HE'S IN A GOOD POSITION, AT LEAST ACCORDING TO THAT MOST RECENT EAGLETON POLL, WHEN THEY DID A MATCH-UP AGAINST CIATTARELLI, HE WAS VERY MUCH AHEAD, OVER 50%.

I THINK HE'S GOING TO REALLY TRY TO FOCUS ON THE COVID RECOVERY AND TALKING ABOUT HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS, MINIMUM WAGE, PAID SICK LEAVE, ET CETERA.

AND I THINK SO FAR, WE HAVEN'T SEEN HIM TALK A LOT ABOUT SPECIFICS OF WHAT DOES HE WANT TO DO IN A TERM TWO, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT I AND OTHER REPORTERS ARE GOING TO BE LOOKING FOR IS WHAT -- WHAT ARE HIS POLICY PROPOSALS GOING FORWARD?

WHAT WOULD HE LIKE TO ACCOMPLISH?

JACK CIATTARELLI HAS PUT OUT A LOT OF POLICY PROPOSALS AT THIS POINT ON TAX POLICY AND OTHER AREAS THAT ARE FAIRLY DETAILED, AND SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, VOTERS WILL WANT TO KNOW, WHAT IS HE GOING TO DO?

AND I THINK HE'S GOING TO WANT TO SPEAK MORE IN GENERALITIES, AT LEAST, FOR AS LONG AS POSSIBLE.

>> NOW, KATHERINE, IN ADDITION TO THE SIX SENATORS AND ASSEMBLYMEN WHO WE KNEW WERE LEAVING BEFORE TUESDAY, FOUR MORE WILL BE OUT COME JANUARY BECAUSE THEY LOST THEIR PRIMARIES.

I MEAN, DID WE EXPECT ALL THOSE TO LOSE?

YOU HAD NOT ONLY VALERIE HUTTLE.

YOU HAD BETTY DEKROECH, SERENA DIMAZZO AND HOLLEY IN THE 20th.

>> NOTHING WAS HUGELY SURPRISING TO ME.

THE COMMON THEME IS THIS SHOWED REALLY THE POWER OF THE LINE AND JUST THE FACT THAT IT DOES ENDURE.

>> FRED, I'M WONDERING IF YOU CAN TALK ABOUT THE 26th DISTRICT RACE.

>> YES, I WAS SURPRISED.

I THOUGHT BETTY LOU WAS GOING TO SURVIVE.

I MEAN, BETTY LOU DECROCE IN MORRIS COUNTY, RICH PEDIGREE HERE, HER HUSBAND HAD BEEN AROUND FOR A VERY LONG TIME BEFORE HE PASSED AWAY AND EVEN GOES BACK TO ALEX'S ASSOCIATION WITH DEAN GALLO AS A LEGENDARY FIGURE BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, I THINK REPUBLICANS UNDER 40 YEARS OLD PROBABLY DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT OR MAYBE THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THAT.

AND I RECALL AT THE CONVENTION WHEN BETTY LOU DID NOT GET THE LINE.

SHE LOST BY ONLY ABOUT TEN VOTES, AND IT DOES SHOW THE SPLIT.

I MEAN, THE PEOPLE I TALKED TO, THE PEOPLE, THE COUNTY COMMITTEE PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T LIKE BETTY LOU, SHE SUPPORTED THE GAS TAX, WHICH WAS A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO, WHICH, I MEAN, THE GAS TAX INCREASE, WHICH IS ACTUALLY SOMETHING CHRIS CHRISTIE ENGINEERED, BUT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, TO SOME IMPASSIONED PEOPLE ON THE FAR RIGHT, JUST SUPPORTING INCREASING TAXES FOR WHATEVER REASON IS A -- IS GOING TO KILL YOU DOWN THE ROAD, POLITICALLY, AND I THINK THAT'S ONE -- THAT'S A MAIN REASON WHY SHE DID NOT GET THE LINE AND THAT'S WHY SHE ENDED UP LOSING.

LINE IS OBVIOUSLY RIGHT THERE.

THE POWER BROKERS SORT OF, IN A WAY, TELLING THE RANK AND FILE WHO TO VOTE FOR, IN THIS CASE, IF YOU BREAK IT DOWN, BETTY LOU ACTUALLY HAD THE SUPPORT IN THE ESSEX AND PASSAIC COUNTY PART OF THE DISTRICT.

SHE WOULD HAVE WON THERE.

SHE CAME IN FIRST OR SECOND THERE BUT LOST IN MORRIS COUNTY, WHERE SHE -- YOU THINK PEOPLE WOULD KNOW HER BETTER BUT SHE DIDN'T HAVE THE LINE AND THAT'S HOW SHE FINISHED IN THIRD PLACE AND ENDED UP LOSING.

>> FRED, YOU KNOW, MORRIS COUNTY NEVER USED TO GIVE THE LINE.

DO YOU KNOW WHY THEY DID IT THIS YEAR?

WAS IT TO GET DECROCE OUT?

>> NO, THE REASON THEY DID IT IS BECAUSE, AS YEARS AGO, MORRIS COUNTY WAS SOLIDLY REPUBLICAN, SO IT MADE NO DIFFERENCE WHO RAN IN THE NOVEMBER ELECTION.

THAT PERSON WAS GOING TO WIN.

BUT NOW, THE COUNTY HAS BECOME MUCH MORE COMPETITIVE, THE TWO CONGRESS PEOPLE REPRESENTING THE COUNTY ARE DEMOCRATS, JOE BIDEN WON THE COUNTY LAST YEAR, SO THE THINKING IS THAT THIS IS, HEY, LOOK, AS LONG AS WE'RE IN A COMPETITIVE COUNTY, WE CAN'T AFFORD TO HAVE SOME JOKER WIN THE PRIMARY, WE, MEANING THE COUNTY COMMITTEE, WE HAVE TO PICK THE, QUOTE, UNQUOTE BEST CANDIDATE.

SO THAT'S WHAT THEY DECIDED TO DO.

IT'S JUST ASSUMED THAT THE COUNTY COMMITTEE COULD -- THAT THE PEOPLE WHO PICKED THE BEST CANDIDATES.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S TRUE OR NOT, BUT THAT'S HOW IT PLAYED OUT, AND BETTY LOU JUST LOST.

I MEAN, SHE LOST, I THINK, ABOUT TEN VOTES AT THE CONVENTION.

SHE LOST BECAUSE I THINK THE GAS TAX IS THE BIG ISSUE.

>> BRENT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT THE LINE.

THERE'S BEEN A LOT WRITTEN ABOUT IT.

DO YOU THINK THE POLITICAL PARTIES ARE EVER GOING TO BE WILLING TO GIVE UP THAT POWER?

>> I MEAN, NO.

THERE'S A COURT CASE RIGHT NOW THAT'S CHALLENGING THE CONSTITUTIONALITY AND THE FAIRNESS OF THE LINE, AND SO IT'S POSSIBLE THE COURTS COULD OVERTURN IT.

BUT YOU HAVE THE STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL SUPPORTING THE LAWSUIT, SAYING -- AND GOVERNOR MURPHY SAYING THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S DOING SO BECAUSE IT'S PROTECTED UNDER THE STATE CONSTITUTION.

AND IT'S JUST A VERY JERSEY THING.

AS WE'VE LEARNED ANYTHING ABOUT JERSEY POLITICS, ASIDE FROM ILLINOIS AND SOME OTHER STATES, IT'S THE MOST UNIQUE BRAND OF POLITICS IN THE STATE AND I DON'T SEE THAT GOING AWAY EASILY.

BUT THERE HAS BEEN A BIG PUSH, A PROGRESSIVE PUSH TO CHANGE SOME THINGS IN THE STATE SO IT WOULDN'T SHOCK ME BUT I DON'T EXPECT IT TO GO AWAY SOON.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, CERTAINLY THE POWER THAT COMES WITH THAT, THE PARTIES, I WOULD THINK, WOULD NOT BE VERY, YOU KNOW, WOULD GIVE UP WILLINGLY.

KATHERINE, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> YEAH, NO, I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH BRENT'S ASSESSMENT.

I'D BE PRETTY SHOCKED IF ANY TIME SOON THAT THIS WAS DONE AWAY WITH.

I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE IN LIKE A HUNDRED YEARS.

IT'S POSSIBLE.

ANYTHING'S POSSIBLE.

>> OKAY, LET'S MOVE ON TO SOME OF THE OTHER SIGNIFICANT NEWS THIS WEEK, BECAUSE THERE REALLY WAS OR MAYBE IT WAS JUST ME BECAUSE I WOUND UP COVERING IT A LOT, A LOT OF IT.

GOVERNOR MURPHY ANNOUNCED ON MONDAY THAT HE PLANS TO CLOSE THE TROUBLED EDNA MAHAN WOMEN'S PRISON AND MARCUS HICKS GAVE IN AND RESIGNED ON TUESDAY.

HOW DAMNING WAS THE BOXER REPORT?

>> OBVIOUSLY, IT WAS A BIG DEAL BECAUSE IT DID -- IT WASN'T JUST THE REPORT THAT WAS RELEASED.

THE GOVERNOR ALSO MADE THE RECOMMENDATION TO CLOSE THE PRISON AND I GIVE CREDIT TO MY COLLEAGUES AT THE STAR LEDGER AND NJ.COM, DID A WONDERFUL JOB COVERING THIS OVER THE LAST YEAR AND EXPOSING A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT LED TO THIS REPORT.

AND IT'S A SHOCKING THING.

IT'S THE KIND OF THING THAT ISN'T JUST A POLITICAL ISSUE.

EVERYONE CAN UNDERSTAND IT.

SO THIS WAS A BIG DEAL, AND I'M STILL SURE MORE WILL STILL COME OUT ABOUT THIS GOING FORWARD.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I'M WONDERING, FRED, WHAT YOU THOUGHT ABOUT THE REPORT AND WHAT CAME OUT OF IT.

IT SEEMED, FROM THE PRESS CONFERENCE THAT MURPHY HELD, IT WAS A COVID PRESS CONFERENCE, BUT HE WAS ASKED ABOUT THE REPORT ON MONDAY, AND EVEN THOUGH HE SAID, WELL, HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY NEWS TO MAKE ON PERSONNEL, IT SOUNDED LIKE HE WAS READY TO MAKE A CHANGE THERE.

I'M NOT SURE I EXPECTED IT TO COME TUESDAY BUT I'M WONDERING, DO YOU THINK -- DID HICKS FINALLY HAVE TO RESIGN AND WAS MURPHY WRONG TO LET HIM HANG ON AS LONG AS HE DID?

>> YES, I THINK HE PROBABLY HAD TO RESIGN AND I DON'T THINK MURPHY LOOKED SO GOOD ON THIS BECAUSE THIS PROBLEM HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE JANUARY, AS WE MENTIONED, AND WE ALSO KNOW THERE HAVE BEEN PROBLEMS AT THE PRISON BEFORE, AND WHEN THIS CAME UP AT THE QUOTE, UNQUOTE COVID PRESS CONFERENCE, MURPHY ALWAYS WOULD SAY HE'S WAITING FOR THE REPORT TO COME.

THEN WHEN THE REPORT DID COME, HE SAID HE'S NOT READY TO MAKE NEWS, SO FOR WHATEVER REASON, I DON'T THINK HE DIDN'T REALLY WANT TO STEP OUT AND SAY, LOOK -- HE COULD HAVE SAID THREE MONTHS AGO THAT HICKS HAS TO GO OR HE COULD HAVE BASICALLY TOLD HIM TO GO BUT I GUESS HE JUST DIDN'T.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S GOING TO HURT HIM POLITICALLY DOWN THE ROAD.

THIS MAY SOUND INSENSITIVE, I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK OF HOW AVERAGE PEOPLE THINK.

I DON'T KNOW IF AVERAGE PEOPLE CARE HOW PRISONERS ARE TREATED.

THAT'S SORT OF A GENERAL VIEW OF THE AVERAGE GUY IN THE STREETS, SO I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS GOING TO HURT HIM DOWN THE ROAD POLITICALLY, BUT HE SHOULD HAVE ACTED QUICKER.

>> YEAH, I AGREE WITH YOU ON WHAT THE AVERAGE PERSON THINKS, UNFORTUNATELY.

BUT LET'S MOVE ON TO THE OTHER REALLY BIG NEWS THAT WE HAD THIS WEEK.

KATHERINE, ON WEDNESDAY, WE FOUND OUT THAT THE STATE BUDGET IS ABOUT $4 BILLION RICHER THAN WE THOUGHT.

REPUBLICANS SUGGEST GIVING SOME OF THAT MONEY BACK TO TAXPAYERS.

I THINK I MIGHT WANT SOME IF WE CAN GET IT, HUH?

BUT YOU KNOW, WE DO HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF PROGRAMS THAT WE DON'T FUND PROPERLY ALREADY.

WHAT DO YOU THINK'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO ALL THAT MONEY?

>> YEAH, SO, IT'S ACTUALLY CLOSER TO $5 BILLION ACROSS THE TWO FISCAL YEARS, AND THAT DOESN'T ACCOUNT FOR -- SO THERE'S A -- WE HAD A SURPLUS ALREADY, AND THEN THIS OTHER $5 BILLION ACROSS 2 YEARS AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, WE HAVE $6.2 BILLION FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THIS IS ALL KIND OF PUSHED UP BY THE $4 BILLION IN BORROWING.

I THINK I'VE COVERED THE BUDGET NOW FOR FIVE, SIX YEARS.

I DID NOT THINK THAT THIS WOULD EVER HAPPEN AND I KNOW TALKING TO PEOPLE WHO COVERED IT MUCH LONGER THAN I HAVE, DID NOT EXPECT THIS.

IN TERM OF WHAT WE COULD SEE, I'M REALLY HEARING A HIGHER PENSION PAYMENT IS ON THE TABLE.

I THINK THAT WOULD BE A PRETTY BIG DEAL, JUST BECAUSE WE'RE LOOKING AT 100% FULL FUNDING THIS YEAR AND GOING EVEN BEYOND THAT WOULD BE A PRETTY BIG ACCOMPLISHMENT.

I THINK OTHERWISE, LAWMAKERS ARE REALLY TALKING ABOUT ONE-OFF PROGRAMS.

THEY DON'T WANT TO CREATE A SITUATION WHERE THEY'RE PROPPING UP PROGRAMS THAT THEY CAN'T FUND IN THE FUTURE.

IN TERMS OF STIMULUS CHECKS, THAT IS ONE THING THAT I HEARD FLOATED A LITTLE WHILE BACK IS GIVING MONEY TO RESIDENTS.

OTHER THINGS THAT I HEARD, THOUGH, WAS MORE SPECIFICALLY GIVING MONEY TO ESSENTIAL FRONTLINE WORKERS, PAYOUTS THERE, SO THAT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING I'M REALLY INTERESTED IN FOLLOWING.

ALSO, LEAD REMEDIATION, INVESTMENT IN INFRASTRUCTURE, ONE-TIME PAYMENTS THEY CAN MAKE WITH THIS CASH AND I THINK ALSO JUST PUTTING THIS MONEY, SAVING IT ASIDE AND MAKING SURE THAT IT'S SPREAD OUT OVER SEVERAL YEARS.

IT DOESN'T ALL HAVE TO BE SPENT RIGHT NOW.

BUT YEAH, WE HAVE A REALLY SHORT WINDOW BEFORE THE BUDGET DEADLINE, SO IT SHOULD BE VERY INTERESTING.

>> IT WOULD BE A VERY NEW JERSEY STORY IF MURPHY TOOK REPUBLICANS' RECOMMENDATION AND ACTUALLY DID GIVE MONEY TO TAXPAYERS AND THEN HE COULD SAY, WELL, LOOK, I GAVE MONEY TO TAXPAYERS.

REPUBLICANS WOULD -- THAT WOULD BE AN INTERESTING SITUATION.

>> AND IT IS AN ELECTION YEAR.

>> YEAH, THAT'S KIND OF GOOD POLITICS, ISN'T IT?

GIVING MONEY AWAY.

YEP.

>> YEAH.

NOT THAT I'M SUGGESTING, BUT I THINK WE OFTEN SEE, IN ELECTION YEARS, THAT THERE'S MONEY TO GO AROUND.

NOT THAT I'M SUGGESTING THAT THE STATE SUDDENLY JUST FOUND THIS MONEY, BUT KATHERINE, ANY LAST THOUGHTS ON HOW CONTENTIOUS IT'S GOING TO BE?

>> NEVER SAY NEVER, BUT THIS IS LOOKING LIKE A VERY SLEEPY BUDGET.

TYPICALLY, WE SEE A LOT OF FIGHTING, EVEN IN THE PRESS BETWEEN SWEENEY VS. MURPHY, BUT I THINK BECAUSE IT'S AN ELECTION YEAR, THEY WANT TO GET ALONG, AND THERE'S JUST MORE MONEY THAN WE KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH.

SO, I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK WE COULD SEE A LOT OF DISAGREEMENTS OVER HOW TO SPEND THIS MONEY AND YOU KNOW, WHAT TO SPEND IT ON AND HOW MUCH TO SPEND, BUT YEAH, COMPARED TO, LIKE, ARE WE GOING TO SEE A CHRISTIE ON THE BEACH MOMENT?

I DON'T THINK SO.

>> YEAH.

GOT YOU.

WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

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