IMPEACHMENT PART TWO.

RADICALS AGAINST THE G.O.P.

ESTABLISHMENT AND THE STATE OF GOVERNOR CUOMO'S STATE.

"IVORY TOWER" IS NEXT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO "IVORY TOWER."

I'M DAVID CHANATRY FROM UTICA COLLEGE.

I'M JOINED TONIGHT FROM KRISTI ANDERSON FROM THE MAXWELL SCHOOL AT SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, JAMILA MICHENER FROM CORNELL UNIVERSITY, PHIL KLINKNER FROM HAMILTON COLLEGE AND LUKE PERRY FROM UTICA COLLEGE.

NOW, COMING ON TOP OF THE SHOCK OF LAST WEEK'S ATTACK ON THE SEAT OF AMERICAN GOVERNMENT BY AMERICANS, THIS WEEK WAS ANOTHER ONE FOR THE HISTORY BOOKS.

THE ACTIONS OF THE PRESIDENT AND THE EVENTS LEADING UP TO THE ATTACK ON THE CAPITOL HAVE BEEN ROUNDLY CONDEMNED AND ON WEDNESDAY IN A BIPARTISAN VOTE, PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS IMPEACHED FOR THE SECOND TIME.

BUT WITH SO LITTLE TIME LEFT IN HIS TERM, WAS THIS THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY, PHIL, TO HOLD THE PRESIDENT ACCOUNTABLE?

>> WELL, CERTAINLY THE DEMOCRATS AND THE REPUBLICANS WHO VOTED FOR IMPEACHMENT THOUGHT SO.

I THINK THE FACT IS NOT SO MUCH THAT THEY FEEL THEY CAN REMOVE PRESIDENT TRUMP FROM OFFICE BEFORE JOE BIDEN IS SWORN IN ON JANUARY 20.

IT'S THAT IMPEACHMENT CAN AND IN THIS PLACE PROBABLY WOULD, IF IT PASSES IN THE SENATE, CARRY A BAR ON ANY HOLDING OF ANY FUTURE FEDERAL OFFICE SO IT WOULD PREVENT TRUMP FROM RUNNING AGAIN IN 2024 WHICH HE SEEMS INTENT ON DOING.

I ALSO THINK THAT THEY FELT THAT TRUMP'S ACTIONS EVEN IF THIS AMOUNTED TO A SORT OF SLAP ON THE WRIST, THAT THEY HAD TO DO SOMETHING; THAT AS CONGRESS, SINCE CONGRESS WAS ATTACKED, THAT THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT CONGRESS COULD DO AND THEREFORE SHOULD DO.

THEY NEEDED TO ACT.

OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF LEGAL ISSUES THAT TRUMP IS FACING, SOME OF THEM PRIOR TO THIS ATTACK, SOME OF THEM PERHAPS RELATED TO THIS ATTACK.

BUT CONGRESS FELT LIKE THEY NEEDED TO ACT AND HOPED TO BASICALLY BAR TRUMP FROM EVER RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT AGAIN.

>> I AGREE THAT THE BARRING HIM FROM RUNNING FOR OFFICE IS CRITICAL.

THAT SHOULD HAPPEN BECAUSE HE CLEARLY DOES WANT TO RUN AGAIN IN 2024 AND HIS SUPPORTERS CLEARLY WOULD LIKE THAT.

I AM FASCINATED WITH THE REASONING OF THE REPUBLICANS, BOTH THE PEOPLE-- PARTICULARLY THE REPUBLICANS, LIKE JOHN KATKO WHO VOTED FOR IMPEACHMENT.

I THIS I WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE REASONING.

I THINK THEY MUSTED BE HAVING A HARD TIME.

I WAS INTERESTED THAT ALL OF THE 10 CITED HISSIN' CITEMENT OF THE INSURRECTION AND RIOT.

ONLY A COUPLE OF THEM, INCLUDING KATKO, YOU KNOW, SAID ANYTHING ELSE.

I MEAN SAID, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT HE IS LYING ABOUT THE ELECTION AND THAT, TO ME, IS ALSO VERY IMPORTANT.

THE FACT THAT HE HAS PERSISTED IN SAYING THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN, THE ELECTION WAS RIGGED, HE SHOULD BE ELECTED.

AND THEY JUST CAN'T BRING THEMSELVES, IT SEEMS LIKE, TO CRITICIZE HIM FOR THAT OR PUT THEMSELVES IN THAT CATEGORY OF SAYING YES, YOU KNOW, HE IS LYING ABOUT THE ELECTION.

>> I THINK IN KATKO'S CASE, IT'S A SIMPLE POLITICAL MOVE.

HE IS A REPUBLICAN IN A DEMOCRATIC DISTRICT.

DOESN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT A PRIMARY OR ANOTHER ELECTION FOR SOMETIME AND NOW YOU CAN-- HE CAN TOUT HIS CREDENTIALS BY VOTING NOT TO IMPEACHMENT PEACH IN ONE FORM AND I AM IMPEACH IN THE OTHER.

THE BEST WAY TO KEEP THE PRESIDENT ACCOUNTABLE IS THROUGH RESIGNATION.

AND YOU HAD KEVIN McCARTHY, THE PERSON KEVIN SPACEY SHADOWED IN LEARNING HOW TO BE FRANK UNDERWOOD IN THE HOUSE OF CARDS, IT WOULD BE A CHARACTER IF YOU ARE NOT FAMILIAR, ASKING PEOPLE, SHOULD I REQUEST THAT THE PRESIDENT RESIGN?

AND CERTAINLY THAT WOULD HAVE ACTUALLY NEUTRALIZED THE PROBLEM.

EVEN THOUGH THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN, I THINK TRUMP CUT OFF HIS POLITICAL LEGS WITH HOW HE RESPONDED TO THE INSURRECTION.

I DON'T THINK HE IS THAT MUCH OF IN IMMEDIATE DANGER GIVEN HOW MARGINALIZED HE IS WITH BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES.

>> I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS IMPORTANT ABOUT THE IMPEACHMENT IS NOT JUST WHAT IT MEANS IN THE PRESENT MOMENT AS FAR AS WHETHER TRUMP IS, YOU KNOW, IMPEACHED BEFORE HE HAS A CHANCE TO LEAVE OFFICE WHICH WON'T HAPPEN.

AND EVEN, IT'S NOT EVEN ONLY ABOUT TRUMP.

I THINK IT'S ABOUT MORE GENERALLY.

TRUMP FAMOUSLY SORT OF JOKED BUT SERIOUSLY SAID I COULD CHOOSE SOMEONE IN THE MIDDLE OF FIFTH AVENUE AND I WOULDN'T LOSE ANY VOTERS.

THAT HAS PROVEN ACCURATE, RIGHT, THAT WE COULD HEAR RECORDINGS OF ALL SORTS, WE CAN HEAR THINGS THAT CLEARLY VIOLATED BOTH LAWS AND NORMS, NORMS THAT, PRIOR TO TRUMP, WERE PRETTY WIDELY HELL, AND THAT HELD, AND THAT THERE WOULDN'T BE CONSEQUENCES.

SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT AS WE TURN TO A NEW POLITICAL MOMENT OR ERA THAT IS POST-TRUMP, TO HAVE THESE INSTANCES WHERE IT'S CLEAR THAT THERE IS ACCOUNTABILITY OR WISE WE WILL GET MORE VAIRIAS NORM BREAKING AND LAW BREAKING IF YOU THINK YOU CAN DO IT BECAUSE YOUR PARTY REFUSES TO TURN ON YOU NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO SHOW THAT THERE ISN'T A CONTINUED PRECEDENT FOR THAT.

>> WELL, WHAT ABOUT THIS IDEA THAT MANY ARE SAYING THAT TO IMPEACH AND GO THROUGH THE PROCESS WILL JUST BE EVEN MORE DIVISIVE.

>> THAT, TO ME, IS CRAZY.

I GET VERY ANGRY WHEN PEOPLE ARE SAYING THAT.

>> WHY DOES THAT MAKE YOU ANGRY?

>> DAVE, THEY STORMED THE CAPITOL.

HOW MUCH MORE DIVISIVE IS IT GOING TO GET?

THERE HAS TO BE CONSEQUENCES FOR THIS.

THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS BEHAVIOR AND IT WASN'T JUST AN OUTBURST OF SORT OF, YOU KNOW, A SPURT OF VIOLENCE.

THEY WERE ACTUALLY ATTEMPTING TO STOP THE TRANSFER OF POWER, THE CERTIFICATION OF THE ELECTORAL VOTES.

THEY WERE ATTEMPTING TO OVERTURN AN ELECTION.

>> DIVISION ISN'T INHERENTLY BAD.

IT'S THE DIVISION BETWEEN PEOPLE WHO RESPECT DEMOCRACY AND PEOPLE WHO DON'T.

LET'S GET MORE DIVIDED, THAT WAY WE CAN IDENTIFY WHO IS NOT ON BOARD WITH THIS DEMOCRATIC PROCESS AND WE CAN FIGURE OUT HOW TO NEUTRALIZE THAT ISSUE.

I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD LOOK AT DIVISION AS INHERENTLY BAD IF IT IS AN ISSUE OF PROTECTING DEMOCRACY.

>> THERE ARE SOME INSTITUTIONAL DOWNSIDES.

I THINK IT WILL INCREASE THE LIKELIHOOD OF FUTURE IMPEACHMENTS AND THERE IS NO PRECEDENT IN THE SENATE FOR HOLDING IMPEACHMENT TRIALS FOR SOMEONE WHO IS NO LONGER A SITTING PRESIDENT.

THAT COULD LEAD TO UNDESIRABLE OUTCOMES IN THE FUTURE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S MERITED IN THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION.

>> WELL, ALONG THOSE... >> THERE IS ALWAYS A SLIPPERY SLOPE THAT YOU CAN PUT OUT THERE, BUT IT'S SO CLEARLY MERITED IN THIS CASE, THAT WHATEVER SORT OF HYPOTHETICAL RISKS THERE MIGHT BE IN THE FUTURE, I THINK WE SHOULD DEFINITELY BE WILLING TO TAKE IT.

>> THE POINT THAT LUKE WAS JUST MAKING, THAT IT'S NOT CLEAR WHETHER THERE CAN ACTUALLY BE A TRIAL IF HE IS NO LONGER THE PRESIDENT, RIGHT?

IF THERE IS A TRIAL, WHERE THE NEW PRESIDENT COMING IN AND WITH ALL THE PROBLEMS ON HIS PLATE, IS THAT GOING TO SOMEHOW-- WOULD A TRIAL SOMEHOW DETRACT FROM WHAT HE HAS TO DO AND GOING FORWARD TRYING TO DEAL WITH THE PANDEMIC, THE ECONOMY, ET CETERA?

>> I THINK THE DEMOCRATS CAN WALK AND CHEW GUM AT THE SAME TIME.

THEY'RE ABLE TO AND THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT HOW TO DO THESE TWO THINGS AT ONCE.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S A HUGE PROBLEM.

IT WOULD BE BETTER IF THEY WEREN'T, YOU KNOW, JUST TO START OFF A NEW ADMINISTRATION, IF YOU WEREN'T BURDENED BY THIS NECESSITY TO DO THIS BUT I DO THINK IT IS A NECESSITY.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THESE REENTS EVENTS HAVE BROUGHT INTO FOCUS IS THE DEGREE OF DIVISION WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, THE TENSIONS BETWEEN THE RADICALS AND THE ESTABLISHMENT OR AS SOME HAVE SAID, 20 FANTASY AND REALITY.

P THAT HAS BROUGHT THE PARTY TO WHAT MAY BE A BREAKING POINT.

THE TRUMP REPUBLICAN PARTY DOESN'T SEEM LIKE A HOME FOR MITCH McCONNELL OR MITT ROMNEY.

LUKE, MIGHT EITHER WING BREAK OFF FROM THE OTHER AND IF THE PARTY DOES BREAK, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THE STRENGTH OF A TWO PARTY SYSTEM?

>> I DON'T THINK THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

I THINK THAT THE TWO PARTY SYSTEM HAS BEEN EMBEDDED IN AMERICAN POLITICAL CULTURE SINCE 1787 AND THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION AND SUBSEQUENTLY OUR ELECTORAL SYSTEM AND ELECTORAL RULES, PARTICULARLY THE IDEA THAT WINNER TAKES ALL ELECTIONS HAS MADE IT NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR SUSTAINABLE AND POWERFUL THIRD PARTIES TO EMERGE.

OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS MY RESEARCH HAS DOCUMENTED HOW TRUMP HAS ENTHUSED AND DIVIDED THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

THE DIVISIONS ARE REAL.

BUT I THINK WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN VERY QUICKLY, PARTICULARLY UNDER A UNIFIED DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT WHICH I EXPECT TO GET RID OF THE FILIBUSTER AND PASS A LOT OF FEDERAL LEGISLATION, THE REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO QUICKLY GET BACK IN THE FOLD WITH ONE ANOTHER AND UNIFY OPPOSITION TO THE DEMOCRATS.

WHILE WE SEE PARTY DIVISIONS WITHIN ANY PARTY, PARTICULARLY WHEN THEY LOSE AN ELECTION OR LOSE BADLY LIKE REPUBLICANS DID THIS TIME, IT DOESN'T TAKE LONG FOR THE WOUNDS TO HEAL WHEN YOU ARE OUT OF POWER AND YOU ARE TRYING TO CRITICIZE THE OTHER SIDE.

>> BUT I DO THINK THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, CONSERVATIVE-- HAVING A PARTY LIKE THE REPUBLICANS SPLIT BETWEEN PEOPLE WHO ARE OLD GUARD REPUBLICANS AND MORE CONSERVATIVE OR, YOU KNOW, HOW DIFFERENT IDEOLOGICAL OR POLICY PREFERENCES.

THESE PEOPLE ARE LIVING IN A NOT, YOU KNOW, IN A FANTASY WORLD.

AND I THINK THAT REALLY DOES-- THAT IS REALLY-- IT DOES PRODUCE DIFFERENT WAYS OF LOOKING AT THE WORLD, DIFFERENT UNDERSTANDINGS OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED AND WHAT IS HAPPENING THAN JUST THE NORMAL KIND OF POLICY DIFFERENCES OR IDEOLOGICAL SEPARATION.

READING THIS MORNING IN THE NEW YORK TIMES ABOUT THE TRUMPISTS, THE ENTRENCHED TRUMPISTS AT THE LOCAL AND STATE LEVEL IN REPUBLICAN POLITICS, AND ALSO I HAVE TO SAY HEARING DONALD J. TRUMP SAY THIS IS NO LONGER A REPUBLICAN PARTY, IT'S DONALD TRUMP'S PARTY, HIS SON SAID THAT THE OTHER DAY.

I DON'T KNOW, IT MAKES ME WONDER WHAT WILL HAPPEN ABOUT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

YOU ARE TAKING A VERY TRADITIONAL, YEAH, WE HAVE A TWO PARTY SYSTEM.

IT WILL STAY, IT WILL COME BACK TOGETHER TO OPPOSE THE DEMOCRATS, BUT I DON'T KNOW.

>> I DON'T NECESSARILY LAMENT THE POSSIBILITY OF THE TWO-PARTY SYSTEM BEING UNDERMINED TO SOME DEGREE.

SO IT'S TRUE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS, AND IF THE PAST IS AN INDICATION OF THE FUTURE, AS IT OFTEN IS, THN THEN I THINK WE SHOULD EXPECT THE TWO-PARTY SYSTEM TO BE RESILIENT, BUT IF WE HAVE ENTERED A SORT OF MOMENT, ESPECIALLY WITH REGARD TO THE SORTING BETWEEN THE PARTIES, AND I THINK THAT WE ARE SEEING A DIFFERENT LEVEL OF SORTING NOW THAN WE'VE EVER SEEN BEFORE, WHERE ALMOST ALL LIBERALS ARE DEMOCRATS AND ALMOST ALL CONSERVATIVES ARE REPUBLICANS, AND SO WE ALREADY HAVE THIS HYPER DIVISION AND THEN IF WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY YOU GET ANOTHER HYPER DIVISIVE CLEAVAGE, IT IS HARD TO PREDICT WHAT THE POSSIBILITIES ARE BECAUSE WHEN WE ARE SEEING DIFFERENT PATTERNS THAN WE HAVE EVER SEEN IN THE PAST, IT BECOMES DIFFICULT TO USE THE PAST AS A PREDICTIVE MEASURE.

AT THE SAME TIME, IF THE TWO-PARTY SYSTEM IS UNDERMINED, WE OUGHT TO THINK ABOUT WHAT POTENTIAL GOOD COULD COME FROM THAT BECAUSE WE ARE NOT EXACTLY IN A GREAT PLACE RIGHT NOW.

JOHN ADAMS WORRIED THAT "A DIVISION OF THE REPUBLICANS TO TWO GREAT PARTIES IS TO BE DREADED AS THE GREAT POLITICAL EVIL."

WE MAY NOT BELIEVE THAT IS TRUE, BUT WE CERTAINLY HAVE SEEN CAUSE IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS IN PARTICULAR, TO SHARE THE CONCERN.

SO IT MAY NOT BE A TERRIBLE OUTCOME IF WE ARE REACHING A POINT WHERE WE ARE GETTING BEYOND THE TWO-PARTY SYSTEM IN THE UNITED STATES.

>> BUT THEM YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH WINNER TAKE ALL SYSTEM BECAUSE THAT HAS SUPPORTED, UNDERGIRDED THE TWO-PARTY SYSTEM AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO GET RID OF THAT.

>> WE COULD.

DEMOCRATS HAVE TO HANDLE REDISTRICTING AFTER THE CENSUS AND THE REQUIREMENT FOR SINGLE-MEMBER DISTRICTS FOR HOUSE SEATS IS MERELY IN STATUTE.

IT'S NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION.

IT COULD EXPAND THE SIZE OF THE HOUSE.

THEY COULD ALLOW OR EVEN REQUIRE STATES TO MOVE TO AT LEAST SOME SEATS BEING MULTIMEMBER DISTRICTS, WHICH WOULD CREATE AN INCENTIVE AND A SPACE FOR SOME THIRD PARTIES TO EMERGE.

>> WHAT IS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, AS IT IS NOW?

WHAT DOES THE PARTY STAND FOR?

>> TRUMP.

>> YOU CAN'T SAY IT'S SMALL GOVERNMENT OR LOW TAXES.

I GUESS COULD YOU SAY IT'S STILL LOW TAXES.

>> I THINK TRUMP WAS A MEANS TO THE END FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

MITCH McCONNELL NEVER AGREED WITH TRUMP.

HE DIDN'T WANT TRUMP TO BE THE NOMINEE OR THE PRESIDENT BUT HE USED TRUMP TO DO A LOT OF THINGS HE WANTED TO GET DONE LIKE NOMINATE A BUNCH OF FEDERAL JUDGES AND SUPREME COURT JUSTICES.

I LOOK AT THIS PERIOD OF FOUR YEARS OF THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY IS CREATING GREAT TENSION AND DIVISION AND PULLED THE NATIONAL DYNAMICS NATIONALLY AWAY FROM WHAT IT HAS BEEN FOR SOMETIME AND IT IS QUICKLY GOING TO SNAP BACK AND NORMALIZE.

I EXPECT THAT TO HAPPEN WITH REPUBLICAN PARTY POLITICS.

WITH TRUMP OUT OF THE PICTURE, THE PARTY IS NO LONGER ABOUT HIM.

HE WILL CREATE A MEDIA NETWORK AND HE WILL HAVE FOLLOWERS BUT FOR THE REPUBLICAN LEADERS, IT HAS NOT BEEN A PLEASANT OR PRODUCTIVE FOUR YEARS FOR THEM.

>> THE TRENDS WE SAW IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY EXISTED LONG BEFORE TRUMP.

IT WAS INCREASINGLY BECOMING A PARTY DEVOTED TO WHITE NATIONALIST PRINCIPLES FOCUSED ON MEDIA OUTRAGES AND THAT WAS LONG BEFORE TRUMP.

TRUMP ACCELERATED THE TRENDS BUT IT IS GOING TO KEEP GOING AND THESE ARE TRENDS AROUND THE INDUSTRIALIZED WORLD WHERE THE POPULIST FAR RIGHT ARE INCREASINGLY TAKING OVER THE SPACE THAT WERE HELD BY TRADITIONAL CONSERVATIVE PARTIES AND EVEN SOME LEFT PARTIES.

I DON'T THINK TRUMP IS GOING AWAY AND EVEN IF TRUMP WERE TO MAGICALLY GO AWAY, THE TRUMP LINES IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY ARE CLEAR.

THEY PREDATED TRUMP AND WILL KEEP GOING IN THAT AREA.

>> I THINK WHERE THIS IS GOING TO BE BATTLED IS IN LOCAL PARTY COMMITTEES AND I THINK THE LOCAL TRADITIONAL REPUBLICAN PARTY CHAIRS ARE WAITING TO GET RID OF TRUMP AND WITHOUT HIM, AND THE MEDIA PLATFORM, THEY WILL HAVE THE EDGE.

>> I STRONGLY SUGGEST YOU CHECK THEIR FACEBOOK POSTS.

>> I TALK TO THEM BEHIND THE SCENES SO I KNOW WHAT THEY THINK, NOT ONLY WHAT THEY SAY.

AND THAT'S WHERE I THINK THE DIFFERENCE LIES.

>> BUT YOU ARE IN NEW YORK, I WOULD SAY SO A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE, AND I TEND TO AGREE WITH PHIL IN THIS ARGUMENT.

IN OTHER PLACES YOU SHOULD PROBABLY TALK TO THEM.

>> I'M IN TRUMP COUNTRY EVEN THOUGH IT'S NEW YORK.

>> I KNOW.

I'M THERE, TOO.

>> WE ARE ALL IN TRUMP COUNTRY IN UPSTATE NEW YORK.

HERE IN NEW YORK, UPSTATE AND DOWNSTATE, GOVERNOR CUOMO TURNED WHAT USED TO BE HIS ANNUAL STATE OF THE STATE SPEECH INTO MORE OF A MINI SERIES HIGHLIGHTING DIFFERENT ASPECTS OVER EACH OF THE PAST FOUR DAYS AND HE LED IT OFF WITH THE PLANS TO EXPAND THE COVID VACCINATION PROGRAM AND ANNOUNCED PLANS TO CLOSE THE ENORMOUS BUDGET GAP, BUILD SEVERAL LARGE INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS AND CONTINUE A PUSH INTO RENEWABLE ENERGY.

SO LET'S START WITH VACCINES.

KRISTI, THERE HAS BEEN A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF CONFUSION OVER WHO CAN GET THEM.

WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THE GOVERNOR'S PLAN THERE?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK HE IS TRYING.

I THINK THAT THE PROBLEMS IN THE VACCINE DISTRIBUTION ARE ENORMOUS AND THEY START WITH THE FACT THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT JUST THREW UP ITS HANDS, DIDN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT HAVING A NATIONAL PLAN AT ALL.

JUST SAID BASICALLY STATES, YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN.

SO NOW WE HAVE THESE STATES THAT ARE AT A MOMENT'S NOTICE, CHANGING THEIR CRITERIA.

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK IN NEW YORK, WHERE SUDDENLY PEOPLE-- IT HAD BEEN THAT PEOPLE 75 AND OLDER COULD GET IT.

SUDDENLY IT GOT DOWN TO 65 AND THEY SET UP ALL THESE WEBSITES BUT THEY DIDN'T HAVE MUCH COORDINATION AND THE WEBSITES DIDN'T WORK AND PEOPLE WERE GETTING DIFFERENT INFORMATION.

HE IS TRYING TO PUT MORE MONEY INTO THIS TO MAKE IT WORK BETTER.

I HOPE IT WORKS.

I THINK GOOD FOR HIM.

BUT I THINK IT'S A LITTLE BIT BETTER LATE THAN NEVER, I GUESS.

I'M NOT REAL OPTIMISTIC ABOUT IT.

I DO THINK THAT HE HAS-- I REALLY LIKED HIS CLIMATE AGGRESSIVENESS.

OUR PLANET IS IN CRISIS BY EVERY METRIC IT IS CLEAR AND HE GOES ON ABOUT THIS AND HE IS TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, AS HE HAS TALKED ABOUT BEFORE, CREATE A STRONGER ECONOMY BASED ON THESE RENEWABLE ENERGY AND JOBS IN RENEWABLE ENERGY AND I APPRECIATE THAT.

>> JAMILA.

>> YOU KNOW, WHEN IT COMES TO THE VACCINE, I DO THINK THAT A COUPLE OF THINGS ARE CLEAR.

ONE IS THAT WE LEARNED THIS ALREADY FROM THE KIND OF TESTING FAUX PAS THAT HAPPENED IN THE PANDEMIC.

THERE IS A LEARNING CURVE FOR THESE THINGS.

NOT ONLY GOVERNOR CUOMO BUT ALSO THE OTHER FOLKS IN LEADERSHIP THROUGHOUT THE STATE DON'T HAVE TONS OF FAMILIARITY WITH ROLLING OUT A MASSIVE PANDEMIC TESTING REGIME OR ROLLING OUT A MASSIVE VACCINATION PLAN SO IT'S A LITTLE TRIAL AND ERROR.

SO THAT'S WHY IT'S 75 AND ABOVE, NO IT'S 65 AND ABOVE.

WE COULD LOBBY CRITICISM FOR THE GOVERNOR AND THERE IS CRITICISM TO BE LOBBIED ON MANY WAYS IN STATE LEVEL THE BUCK STOPS WITH HIM BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO BE REALISTIC ABOUT THE FACT THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE TRIAL AND ERROR.

IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT THE STATE OF THE STATE AND THE STATE OF THE UNION ARE DEEPLY INTERTWINED AND WHEN NEW YORK IS GETTING 300,000 VACCINE DOSES A WEEK, THAT'S PUTTING A LIMIT ON HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN BE VACCINATED.

IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MUCH CUOMO WANTS THAT TO GO FASTER OR HOW MUCH, YOU KNOW, ADDITIONAL INVESTMENT HE IS WILLING TO MAKE IF THERE ARE UPPER LIMITS COMING FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

AND THE LAST THING THAT I SAY IS-- AND THAT MIGHT CHANGE WITH WE GET A NEW FEDERAL AND PRESIDENTIAL ADMINISTRATION.

THEY MAY BE ABLE TO OPERATE MORE EFFECTIVELY AND EFFICIENTLY.

THE LAST THING I WOULD SAY IS IN LINE WITH WHAT KRISTI SAID, CUOMO UNVEILED A WHOLE BUNCH IN THE STATE OF THE STATE SPEECHES AND HE SORT OF POINTED TO A VERY, WHAT I THINK OF AS A NEW DEALESQUE VISION, RIGHT?

AND EXPLICITLY ALIGNED HIMSELF WITH ROSE VET, WITH F.D.R.

AND THERE IS A LOT TO BE, YOU KNOW,-- A LOT OF PROMISING PIECES OF THAT.

BUT FOR ME, THE DEVIL IS GOING TO BE IN THE DETAILS.

LIKE WHO IS GOING TO BEN BENEFIT FROM THESE MASSIVE INFRASTRUCTURE PROGRAMS.

WHO IS GOING TO BENEFIT FROM THE PUBLIC HEALTH CORP WHO IS GOING TO BENEFIT OR BE HARMED FROM THE EFFORT TO ENGAGE IN CLIMATE MITIGATION?

THESE ARE ALL PROMISING PROSPECTS, BUT UNLESS THERE IS OVERSIGHT AND UNLESS PEOPLE ARE PAYING ATTENTION AND MAKING DEMANDS ON THE STATE GOVERNMENT AND MAKING DEMANDS ON CUOMO AND HOLDING HIM ACCOUNTABLE, IT IS NOT CLEAR THAT WE WILL ACTUALLY GET ANY OF THESE THINGS AND IT'S NOT CLEAR THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MOST VULNERABLE ARE THE ONES WHO ARE GOING TO BENEFIT.

>> LUKE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

YEAH AND THE BUFFALO BILLIONS COME TO MIND.

HE TRIED TO DO THIS ONCE BEFORE WHEN HE GAVE CONTROL AND THEREFORE MONEY TO HIS CRONIES AND THEIR CRONIES AND SO ON AND IT NEVER WENT ANYWHERE.

SO, YES, ONE DOES HAVE TO HAVE SOME SCEPTICISM.

>> LUKE.

>> I DO HOPE THE CAPACITY ISSUE DOES CHANGE.

I MEAN THE STATE IS GETTING JUST UNDER TWO MILLION DOSES WHEN WE HAVE NEARLY 20 MILLION PEOPLE.

THAT IS A VERY DIFFICULT POLITICAL SITUATION FOR THE GOVERNOR TO NAVIGATE.

I THINK HE HAS LEARNED THAT MORE FLEXIBILITY IN REGARDS TO HOW THE VACCINES ARE ADMINISTERED AND DISTRIBUTED IS WORTHWHILE AND, YOU KNOW, EXECUTIVE ORDERS AND CRIMINALIZING THIS ALLOCATION OF DOSES PROBABLY ISN'T THE BEST WAY TO ENCOURAGE THE EXPEDITIOUS DISSEMINATION OF THE VACCINES.

>> OKAY.

WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE THAT THERE AND GET TO OUR As AND Fs.

SO LET'S START WITH OUR Fs AND WE'LL BEGIN WITH KRISTI.

>> I'M GIVING AN F TO THE REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO REFUSED TO WEAR MASKS, EVEN WHEN IN CROWDED LOCK DOWN AND EVEN WHEN ONE OF THEIR COLLEAGUES, A DEMOCRATIC MEMBER OF CONGRESS, OFFERED THEM MASKS.

A NUMBER OF CONGRESSIONAL REPRESENTATIVES HAVE NOW TESTED POSITIVE FOR COVID AFTER THAT EXPERIENCE.

>> JAMILA.

>> I'M GIVING AN F TO THE MORE THAN 50 ELECTED OFFICIALS AND OTHER PEOPLE IN PUBLIC POSITIONS, PUBLIC WORKERS, WHO ARE FACING INTERNAL INQUIRIES AND INVESTIGATIONS BECAUSE VIDEOS AND PHOTOS AND OTHER EVIDENCE SHOWED THAT THEY PARTICIPATED IN THE VIOLENT INSURRECTION IN THE CAPITOL LAST WEEK.

>> OKAY.

AND PHIL, YOUR F PLEASE.

>> MINE GOES TO THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS WHO WERE SELECTIVELY QUOTING FROM ABRAHAM LINCOLN'S SECOND INAUGURAL ADDRESS.

THEY WOULD OFTEN REFER TO THE LINE MALICE TOWARD NONE AND CHARITY FOR ALL.

THEY LEFT OUT THAT AMERICAN SLAVERY WAS A SIN AGAINST GOD AND THE NATION MUST PAY A HEAVY PRICE, PERHAPS EVEN GREATER THAN THE PRICE PAID IN THE CIVIL WAR TO ATONE FOR THAT SIN.

>> AND LUKE, YOUR F. >> TO THE REAPPOINTMENT OF BOTH ONEIDA COUNTY ELECTION COMMISSIONERS, THIS DOES NOT ENGENDER CONFIDENCE WHEN OVER 2,000 VOTERS WERE DISENFRANCHISED.

I WON'T BE SURPRISED ONE OR BOTH RESIGN WHEN THE RACE IS OVER.

>> WE'LL GO TO OUR As NOW.

KRISTI, YOUR A, PLEASE.

>> I'M GIVING AN A TO THE SYRACUSE COMMON COUNCIL VOTING UNANIMOUSLY TO MOVE TO A NON-PARTISAN REDISTRICTING METHOD USING AN INDEPENDENT GROUP OF CITIZENS.

SYRACUSE VOTERS APPROVED THE CHARTER CHANGE EARLIER.

COMMON COUNSEL WASN'T ABLE TO GET TO IT OR AGREE ON IT AND NOW THEY HAVE MOVED AHEAD WITH IT.

SO GOOD FOR THEM.

>> AND JAMILA.

>> I'M GIVING AN A TO MY COLLEAGUES AT CORNELL; SOME OF WHOM ARE PARTNERING WITH NEW YORK STATE TO HELP DEVELOP A PUBLIC HEALTH CORPS WHICH IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT GOVERNOR CUOMO ANNOUNCED IN HIS STATE OF THE UNION SPEECH.

MY COLLEAGUES HERE AT CORNELL, SOME OF WHOM HAVE BEEN PART OF DEVELOPING A PUBLIC HEALTH TRAINING CURRICULUM AND THAT'S GOING TO BE USED TO TRAIN MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC HEALTH CORPS.

SO SHOUT OUT TO CORNELL.

>> LET'S GIVE THEM ALL A SHOUT OUT FOR THAT.

AND PHIL YOUR A, PLEASE.

>> MY A GOES TO THE 10 HOUSE REPUBLICANS WHO VOTED FOR IMPEACHMENT.

IT'S HARD TO BUCK YOUR PARTY AND PRESIDENT IN NORMAL TIMES BUT THESE ARE NOT NORMAL TIMES.

WE ARE HEARING THAT SEVERAL OF THEM RECEIVED THREATS AGAINST THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES FOR THE POSITION THAT THEY TOOK.

NONETHELESS, THEY CHOSE TO STAND FOR DEMOCRACY AND RULE OF LAW AND I APPLAUD THAT AND WE ALL SHOULD.

>> AND WE SHOULD ADD THAT AGAIN, THAT INCLUDES OUR LOCAL REPRESENTATIVE HERE, JOB KATKO.

P AND LUKE, YOUR A, PLEASE.

>> MY A GOES TO ABSENTEE BALLOT REFORMS RECENTLY PASSED IN ALBANY INCLUDING NOT WAITING A WEEK AFTER ELECTION DAY TO PROCESS THESE BALLOTS.

THAT'S SOMETHING I CALLED FOR IN THE WAKE OF THE NEVER ENDING NY 20 ELECTION.

>> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THAT BECAUSE YOUR F REFERENCED THAT WITH THE ONEIDA COUNTY ELECTION COMMISSIONERS BEING REAPPOINTED AND THAT'S A REMINDER THAT WE STILL DON'T HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE 22nd.

IN FACT, NOBODY FROM THAT DISTRICT COULD VOTE IN THAT IMPEACHMENT VOTE.

JUST BRIEFLY, CAN YOU JUST TELL US WHERE THAT STANDS?

>> WELL, BOTH CAMPAIGNS CONTINUE TO FILE BRIEFS IN THE RELATED COURT CASE.

I EXPECT THE JUDGE IS GOING TO RULE HERE WITHIN THE NEXT WEEK AND THEN WE ARE INTO PROCESSES AND MAYBE A RECOUNT.

>> OH BOY, SO WE STILL WON'T KNOW FOR SOMETIME WHO IS THE WINNER WHETHER THERE IT'S ANTHONY BRINDISI OR HIS CHALLENGER CLAUDIA TENNEY.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN AND IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO VIEW THE SHOW AGAIN, YOU CAN WATCH IT ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY AND FOR ALL OF US AT "IVORY TOWER," HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.

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