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(upbeat music) - Welcome to another edition of In Another Opinion, a public information program, where our discussions are focused on the communities of color in the State of Rhode Island and its diversity.

I'm your host Peter Wells.

My guest today is Kelly Nevins, CEO of WFRI, Women's Fund of Rhode Island.

So Kelly, tell us what's going on with the Women's Fund these days?

- Yeah, we're actually growing, which is really exciting.

We've added a couple of more folks on staff.

We're doing more with our Women's Policy Institute, which is a nine month training program that teaches women about advocating for legislative change.

And the program now has been operating for almost a decade.

And so we have a really strong alumni network and we're getting them more involved in the advocacy work that we're doing throughout the state of Rhode Island, working to level the playing field and create a more equitable Rhode Island.

- Well, very good.

And, I'll tell you, I don't know whether or not this was part of it, but look at what's happened here recently.

We've got the secretary of state.

- [Kelly] Mm-hmm.

- We've got a Lieutenant governor.

- [Kelly] Mm-hmm.

- Our first female Lieutenant governor of color.

- [Kelly] Yes, absolutely.

- [Peter] And, it's amazing what's happening.

I'm looking at Kamala Harris as vice-president.

A lot's happened since you were here last.

- [Kelly] Yeah.

- [Peter] And we talk about women in politics.

- Yeah, for sure.

In fact, I think the last time that I was here, we were talking about our Run As You Are program, which we run prior to election years to help women think about running for office.

And we definitely have seen record numbers of women of color, who at least are considering running for office, certainly running for office.

And we continue to hope that we will see successful runs for office.

We're seeing the numbers growing in the State House and around Rhode Island, but frankly, the numbers are still pretty low.

We need to get those numbers up.

- Well, that's true.

The bigger, the better, I mean.

- Yeah, for sure.

- And it's interesting that... and I've noticed this, over the last 15 years or so, Kelly, I don't have any statistics to back this next statement up, but it seems to me that women have become far more active in public service.

There's far more CEOs.

- [Kelly] Mm-hmm.

There's far more leadership roles that women have taken, or have been able to receive.

- [Kelly] Sure.

- Be it elected or just public service in itself.

- [Kelly] Yeah.

- Outdistancing gentlemen like crazy.

- Well, I don't know that it outdistances men quite yet, but at least in our general assembly right now, a combined house and Senate, we have 45% representation by women.

That number falls significantly when you look at just women of color, although again, that number is growing.

- [Peter] Yes it is.

- I think there's more of a realization that women need to step up and share their voice and be loud about sharing their voice.

And now that there's more of a number of them to sort of bond together and work together, it creates an atmosphere where, hey, I'm not the only one, or I'm only one of two and my voice isn't loud enough.

We're amplifying each other as we're growing both in the business world and in the government.

Now, frankly, given what's happening with COVID and the she-cession where women have been predominantly impacted by having to either step out of the workplace to care for family, or their jobs have gone away based on the fact that women have been in more low-paying jobs over time, that's led to the Great Resignation.

And we have real concerns about what we're seeing in the economy, because even though more women were making it to the C-Suite, we're gonna start to see trending now back down pretty significantly if something doesn't change to help create an atmosphere where women can thrive in the workplace again.

And that means changing policies in the way that our country works.

- Well, this is true.

And it is a great deal of policy change that's necessary.

But let me ask you this, it seems to me that because of COVID a lot more Americans in general found that they could generate income from home.

And I'm sure that has taken a drain on some folks who probably were moving up the leadership ladder, but all of a sudden, because of COVID, maybe I should do this at home, or I can do this from home.

- Sure, well, certainly there's more of a need to work from home when you have to add in the craziness of what's happening in our school systems.

If you have kids in school and some days they have class, and then other days they don't because of what's happening with COVID within the schools, there's a challenge there.

Also for folks who take care of older family members who may also have issues that are being impacted by COVID.

Unfortunately, the truth of the matter, is that far more women than men are the ones who are having to take the step back to care for those family members.

And so while they may have opportunities to work from home, again, predominantly women were in retail, and in daycare, and in nursing.

And when you take those types of jobs way where you can't work from home, it becomes a drain on the family economics, as well as what's happening in our communities as a whole.

- True.

Now, you mentioned policy changes.

Could you elaborate a bit on some of the policy issues that Women's Fund might be looking at?

- Sure.

Well, for 2022, a major concern for us, and it has been over the years anyway, but more so now because of COVID are, what are the investments that our country and our state are making in the childcare infrastructure?

So you have a couple of competing interests that happen when you look at childcare.

First of all, predominantly it was women who were being paid minimum wage, or just above minimum wage who were working in the childcare sector.

In Rhode Island, the childcare sector is 100% made up of women.

So business owners, as well as the workers, just all of them are women working in childcare.

When COVID hit and a lot of those daycare centers closed down, it was harder for them to open up.

So you've got the people who are earning wages in childcare who have real concerns now about going back and making a wage where they can't survive.

And often they're working two or three jobs in order to survive at the salaries that they're making.

So you've got that end.

And then you've got the other end, which is families who need childcare in order to get back into the workplace.

And the costs for childcare are really significant.

In some cases, as much as a college education.

And for folks who are single wage earners for their family, or they're making minimum wage, they can't afford the childcare that's available, especially when they're paying at a rate that is meant to be a living wage for those who are working in the system.

So the issue is really, this is if we want to think about our economy, the U.S. economy, women play a major role in the U.S. economy.

So in order to get women back to work and contribute to that economy, the government is gonna need to step in and find ways to contribute to the strengthening of the childcare infrastructure.

So that's a major concern right now.

- President Biden's package includes childcare and costs of childcare, if it passes.

- [Kelly] If it passes.

Right.

(laughs) - And I don't understand the opposition to it quite frankly.

- Yeah.

Oh, well, there are people out there who look strictly at today's dollars and cents.

Oh, that seems like a really expensive program, and therefore we don't want to invest in it.

What they're not thinking about is what is the impact that it has on the community and what can be contributed back to the U.S. GDP if we invest.

Look, we're one of the only industrialized countries that does not provide state childcare, it's crazy.

(Kelly laughing) - It is.

It is.

And it's surprising that employers haven't figured out a way to do it as part of its benefit packages.

- Right.

And I think the employers that are more competitive are finding ways to invest.

But, you're talking about big companies.

- True.

- And when you look at Rhode Island, we have a lot of small companies where that's just not an option just for businesses to invest in, this needs to be a community-wide investment.

And it's not just a parent's problem, it is an economic problem.

- What if of our General Assembly, were to pass legislation that would allow for a deduction of expense to the employer, regardless of the size of the small business person, if that person is providing?

- Yeah, I think it's a great option for sure, but there's a lot of different ideas that are on the table.

Certainly in the budgets right now, there is some funding for the childcare infrastructure.

It is woefully underfunded for what is needed.

So that continues to be a major concern.

And it shouldn't just be a Rhode Island issue.

I mean, again, the national level, we've got Congress looking at options, too.

It's just a question of, are we really willing as a country to step up and make some changes?

- Kelly, do you have any idea, and, we wouldn't hold you to this, but do you have any idea what the percentage of single moms and raising children in the State of Rhode Island, what the number might look like?

- I don't know what the number is specifically, but what I can tell you from the research that we've done through the Women's Fund of Rhode Island in partnership with groups like the Economic Progress Institute, is that 40% of women are the single or core wage earner for their families and their parents.

- [Peter] 40%.

- 40%.

And when you look at women of color, that number is closer to 80%.

- [Peter] Wow.

- Yeah.

- Right.

- Wow.

- So, if you are a single parent and you are responsible for bringing in the paychecks to pay for your family, and you're not making a heck of a lot of money.

And we know from looking at the wage and the wealth gap that women of color make less than women overall, that's a problem.

And again, we need to be thinking about ways that we can help them so that they can go to work and can take care of their families appropriately.

- This is probably pie in the sky, but, I can reflect back because of my age, when churches would step up and do this kind of work, and it would be on a voluntary basis, it wouldn't be on a paid basis.

People could send their children to church with a lunch for their child, and they would have daycare- - [Kelly] Yeah.

- While the parent went to work.

- Certainly a different day and age.

And unfortunately, what I know is that in our churches, for example, the memberships are dropping.

- [Peter] Yes.

- They also have their own economic issues that they are dealing with.

- [Peter] Sure.

- And frankly, while that's a lovely thought to rely on people to volunteer their time to take care of other people's children, why aren't we investing?

Why are we saying, no, we must rely only on the goodness of people to make our economy work?

That doesn't seem right.

- [Peter] No, no, it's a band-aid - Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Right.

And for far too long, women have been doing the unpaid work that is required to make our communities go.

- Well, this is true.

And that itself is a drain on the economy.

- Yes, exactly.

So let's economize it, let's invest in it appropriately.

And I believe that if we do that, that means that we will be a better, stronger country moving forward.

- I still wish we could somehow get seniors involved in that endeavor, people who are retired, who are on fixed incomes.

- Mm-hmm.

- Maybe stipends would interest them in doing something along that line.

But again, that would be an individual project by a community, I guess.

- Sure.

And I always want to be sure that people are paid appropriately for the work that they provide in the community.

And I would just harken back to, again, that if we are not investing appropriately, we are doing our country a disservice.

This also ties to things like making sure that we are paying not just a minimum wage, but a living wage for the work that's being done.

- [Peter] What is that today?

- A living wage, I believe is $24 an hour.

Rhode Island just this year passed a path to a $15 an hour minimum wage that still requires that people work multiple jobs to be able to afford housing in the state.

- [Peter] Sure.

- Food, rent, all of the things that we need to survive.

And particularly, again, if you're a single parent that's caring for the average two kids, minimum wage is really difficult to live on.

- It's unfortunate that it's greed in a way that drives some of the costs that we have.

I mean, housing costs.

Has the mortgage gone up?

No.

- [Kelly] Mm-hmm.

But the owner charges more rent.

- [Kelly] Mm-hmm.

- So I don't...

Does it cost more for guests and electricity?

Maybe.

Does it cost more for water?

Maybe.

Is the cost relative to the increase in the rental cost in this state?

And I don't know that that's true.

I mean, I haven't done a study on... - Yeah.

I really hesitate to make landlords and businesses into the bad guys of what's happening in our economy.

It's just, frankly, over time, we, as a country have allowed culture to persist that to correct immediately is gonna be difficult without there being some true government investment in the system.

But, for years, restaurants, for example, they operate pretty close to the bone, right?

You rarely hear about the restaurateur who's also a millionaire, for example.

And the way that they manage their business is by managing their costs.

So they're gonna pay whatever the going minimum wages is.

Is it their fault that that's how they built their business model was based on how this country has run in the past?

Not necessarily.

- No.

- But (laughs) we need to make changes.

- [Peter] Yeah envision is necessary.

- Yeah.

And so again, really taking the... We have a great opportunity right now in all of this COVID craziness to reset and build to a new better.

- We wanna raise the minimum wage to a living wage so that people can live better.

- [Kelly] Mm-hmm.

- The employer pays higher wages, but therefore their products cost more.

- [Kelly] Mm-hmm.

Where's the leveling?

- My personal opinion is that we should be paying the cost of products.

We should be paying for what they're actually worth or what they're actually doing to our environment.

And if that means that it becomes much more expensive for those things, maybe we'll start to value them and the people who put them together for us more.

Personal opinion.

(laughs) - I understand what you're saying.

And I guess that is one solution.

I just don't know that our government and our business community is going to move as quickly as it needs to.

- Well, and so part of the strategy then, for the Women's Fund of Rhode Island is to get people in the room who are talking about those issues and bringing them to light and keeping them front of mind more often.

And that's frankly why we do the work that we do to encourage women to run for office.

Although we're a non-partisan organization- - [Peter] Right.

- We believe that women and particularly women of color need to be at the table where decisions are made and resources are allocated because they are the ones who are providing, again, a lot of this unpaid labor in the community.

So at least allow them to have an opportunity to help make decisions.

And that's why we train women to advocate for change through our Women's Policy Institute.

We also have other programs that teach women about advocacy, even just self-advocacy like through salary negotiation workshops.

So, yeah.

- Excuse me.

Yeah, it's all necessary.

- Yeah.

- It all ties in.

We were talking in the green room about some new initiatives.

- Yeah.

And so the Women's Fund right now is on the cusp of launching a new program in 2022.

Right now we think we'll call it Women Leading in Governments.

And I had mentioned our Women's Policy Institute, which trains grassroots advocates about how to create legislative change.

This new program will be to support women who are newly elected or appointed into office throughout the state.

So it could be a school board, it could be a state board and commission.

It could be a city town council.

We've been doing some research with the help of students from Bryant University, reaching out to women who serve in office.

And what we find is, especially within the local level, it's not necessarily up at the General Assembly, that they tend to be the single or one of a few women where, they haven't yet built up their power within- - [Peter] The community.

- The body that they're serving.

So they got elected, which is fantastic, or they got appointed.

But once they get into this new space, they have to operate differently and they have to start building alliances and negotiate with people.

And in the meantime, they're being talked over, shut down because they haven't yet figured out really, how to assert their power.

So this new Women Leading in Government program is meant to be a support program for them to help them to build their own power and to be frankly, a support for each other.

Particularly again, for women of color who are serving in office, they get threats, they have a lot of people calling them and trying to take them down at least, emotionally.

How do we support them so that they feel strong about the decisions that they are making, that they feel supported so that they will stay in office, so that they'll seek office again.

We wanna keep them there.

We also wanna be sure that we have more women who are stepping up to serve, and we believe this is a way for that to happen.

So we're looking forward to launching that in 2022.

- Very good.

And do you anticipate a membership or?

- Yeah.

So it would be a free program right now, as we're envisioning it for the women who participate.

It will have some bootcamp style training to go with it, say in negotiation skills or communication skills, or even how do you deal with difficult people.

- That's a good one.

- But then... Yeah, for sure.

And then frankly, the other piece is just creating a cohort that can call on each other and say, "Hey, I've got this issue.

How do I deal with it?"

I'm in Narragansett, I'm in Smithfield and we're in completely different spaces.

We're not competing with each other, but we need to support each other.

How do we do that?

And so just creating that safe space for them so that they have an opportunity to support each other, again, so that they'll stick around.

'Cause we really need them.

We need their voices.

- Oh, yeah.

And you mentioned that one particular phase of dealing with difficult people, I actually took a course at Harvard, at the Kennedy School of Government.

- Uh-huh.

- And that was the title, How to Deal With Difficult People.

- Yeah, right.

- And that was back in, gosh, in the '80s.

- Yeah, yeah.

- So this is something that's been ongoing for a lot of leadership programs.

- Right.

So as part of developing this program, I'll put a call out to your audience.

We are looking for women to mentor the women who would be part of this Leading in Government program, and also people to provide content, say around the topic of dealing with difficult people or negotiation skills.

And I would invite them to call me at the Women's Fund of Rhode Island, or visit our website, email me.

We'd love to talk to you and see if there are ways to incorporate what you know and what your expertise is into the program, moving forward.

- [Peter] What is the, the website for... - [Kelly] Yeah.

- [Peter] It's WFRI, right?

- Right.

So the initials of the Women's Fund of Rhode Island, wfri.org.

And on that website, we give you access to our research.

We have a women's wellbeing index that's hosted there that compares how well women do to men in each city and town throughout Rhode Island.

- That's interesting.

- Also just a host of resources and opportunities then to connect to the Women's Fund as well.

- What does that study kinda look like?

- Well, so it takes census data.

So the latest download of the census hasn't been uploaded yet.

- Right.

- Will probably be uploaded in early spring.

But again, it looks at at how well women do compared to men against five dimensions, including health, safety, education, economic participation, and political representation.

And you can see if you're looking in Narragansett or Woonsocket again, how well women do compared to men in each of those cities and towns against those images.

- I gotta go look at that 'cause that sounds like an interesting study.

- Yeah, for sure.

Again, just noting we haven't got the latest data- - Right.

- That's been downloaded yet 'cause it hasn't been released by the governments.

- But you have a deal done with them.

- Yes.

And it certainly will give you good trending information.

There's also policy briefs that go along with that.

So the policy briefs do reference more updated information and also have policy recommendations within them.

So for example, for the economic participation, businesses really thinking about ways that they can invest in the childcare infrastructure, but also, thinking about is telework possible.

Does it just have to be during COVID or is this something that you can extend over time?

Those are some examples.

- Very good.

Well, the Women's Fund is still active.

- Yes for sure.

- And you're going at it.

(Kelly laughing) What advice Kelly, would you give to a young people today, young women today, and more specifically women of color who are trying to find their way and navigate their way through their future careers?

- [Kelly] Yeah.

- What advice would you offer.

- It's interesting again, right now we have a great opportunity.

COVID is both awful, and for women who are looking to perhaps find their first jobs or change jobs, they are in a real good position to actually negotiate for the things they really need in jobs.

I mean, we keep hearing over and over that employers are having really hard time finding employees.

- [Peter] Exactly.

- So now, if you're being offered a job, you can really ask for the things that you need, be it childcare, telework, perhaps it's extended vacation, whatever it is that you need, plus whatever your salary requirements are.

- [Peter] Sure.

- I definitely, when I teach my salary negotiation workshops, I'm always advocating for, make sure you research what the salary range is if the employer is not providing it.

By the way, there's a new law in Rhode Island, that requires that employers inform you what the salary range for your position is.

- [Peter] Really?

- They may not always provide it upfront, but they have to provide it if you ask.

- [Peter] Is it local or national?

- It's a Rhode Island law, similar in Massachusetts though, too.

So folks are going over the line, they can ask for that information.

We would love for employers to proactively provide that.

But if they don't, you can request it and you should.

And understanding what that salary range is, is gonna help you to negotiate the best salary for yourself.

- [Peter] It makes sense.

- Yeah.

- Wow.

And that's advice I could have used (indistinct) (kelly laughing) - Sure.

- Looking out for my job.

Kelly, listen, we're actually running out of time.

- It goes so fast, doesn't it?

- It does, it really does.

So we're gonna absolutely have you back.

- [Kelly] I'd love it.

- So we can talk more about what the fund is doing and the impact that you're having on the State of Rhode Island, and again, specifically women of color in the State of Rhode Island.

We have run out of time, but I wanna thank today's guest, Kelly Nevins, of the Women's Fund of Rhode Island and you, the viewers for tuning in to another edition of, In Another Opinion.

A special thanks to PBS for making this program possible.

I'm your host, Peter Wells.

Follow us on Facebook at, In Another Opinion, and give us your opinion about the day.

Have a great day.

(upbeat music) - [Announcer] Someone gave.

Someone donated.

Someone left a legacy.

Generations of generous someones have helped shape Rhode Island into this amazing place we call home.

How do you thank them?

By leaving your own legacy.

We can help.