♪ ANOTHER SEGMENT OF "IN ANOTHER OPINION," A PUBLIC INFORMATION PROGRAM DISCUSSING COMMUNITIES OF COLOR IN THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND.

MY GUEST TODAY IS COMMISSIONER STEPHEN PARRY, PROVIDENCE POLICE I SHOULD SAY, FOR THE CITY OF PROVIDENCE IN THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND.

STEVE HAS BEEN ON THE SHOW BEFORE, AND I WANTED TO BRING HIM BACK TO TALK ABOUT WHERE WE ARE IN PROVIDENCE WITH SOME OF THE SOCIAL ISSUES WE HAVE DEALT WITH THIS SUMMER.

STEVE, WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU, PETER, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

PETER: MY PLEASURE.

YOU AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE TAKEN PLACE IN THE CITY THIS PAST YEAR.

IN YOUR OPINION, HOW HAS THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT HERE IN PROVIDENCE IMPACTED THE CITY, POLICE POLICY, AND PROCEDURAL THINGS WITH DAY-TO-DAY BUSINESS FOR POLICE OFFICERS, IF ANY?

STEVE: I THINK IT HAS HAD A MAJOR IMPACT ON THE PROFESSION ACROSS -- PROBABLY THE WORLD, BUT IN THE U.S., WITHOUT A DOUBT, IN THE PAST YEAR, YEAR AND A HALF.

AND OF COURSE, WE IN PROVIDENCE ARE ALSO EXPERIENCING THAT IMPACT, IN ALL GOOD WAYS.

IT HAS BROUGHT, UNFORTUNATELY, SOME HORRIFIC BEHAVIOR THAT WE HAVE SEEN HERE IN THE U.S. AT THE HANDS OF POLICE, HOW THEY HAVE TREATED PEOPLE OF COLOR, PARTICULARLY AFRICAN-AMERICAN AND BLACK MEN.

AS A RESULT OF THAT -- AND WE HAVE HAD SOME INCIDENTS HERE, ONE OF WHICH I CAN'T GO INTO MUCH DEPTH ABOUT BECAUSE WE HAVE A CASE PENDING BEFORE A SUPERIOR COURT, BUT THERE IS ONE EXAMPLE HERE LOCALLY, AND WE HAVE HAD OTHERS AS WELL.

THANK GOODNESS WE HAVE NOT HAD AN OFFICER-INVOLVED SHOOTING OF A BLACK, UNARMED MAN, BUT AS YOU HAVE SEEN, THAT HAS HAPPENED ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

BEFORE FLOYD AND SINCE THE FLOYD CASE, AND IT HAS BROUGHT ANGER.

IT HAS BROUGHT EMOTIONS AND PAIN FROM THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY AND PEOPLE OF COLOR.

-- PEOPLE OF COLOR TO THE FOREFRONT, DEMANDING CHANGE AND REFORM IN POLICING.

AND OBVIOUSLY, PROVIDENCE BEING THE CAPITAL CITY AND THE LARGEST POLICE DEPARTMENT, A LOT OF THESE ISSUES WE HAVE SEEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY, WHETHER IT IS A NO-KNOCK WARRANT, WHETHER IT IS STOP AND FRISK AND VARYING ESCALATIONS, USE OF DE-ESCALATION TRAINING, ALL THOSE THINGS WE HAVE LOOKED AT PRETTY CLOSELY WITH GROUPS IN THE COMMUNITY, AND WE HAVE CHANGED OUR USE OF FORCE, SOME OF IT NEEDED TO BE CHANGED.

SOME WERE PART OF A NATIONAL STANDARD IN HOW POLICE SHOULD BE USING FORCE.

AS A RESULT, WE HAVE TAKEN THE NECESSARY STEPS TO ADDRESS IT.

IT IS NOT DONE.

WE HAVE MUCH MORE WORK TO DO.

PETER: I KNOW THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY HAS A STUDY GROUP THAT HAS BEEN LOOKING AT THE POLICE UNION CONTRACT AND BEING ABLE TO PROSECUTE POLICE OFFICERS IF THAT WERE TO OCCUR.

WHERE IS THAT PROCESS, DO YOU KNOW?

STEVE: I THINK YOU ARE REFERRING TO THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS BILL OF RIGHTS.

THAT IS A STATE LAW.

IT HAS BEEN IN EXISTENCE FOR PROBABLY CLOSE TO 50 YEARS.

WHEN A POLICE CHIEF DISCIPLINES A POLICE OFFICER, THE STATE STATUTE SETS FORTH THE PARAMETERS IN WHICH YOU THEN GO ABOUT DISCIPLINING A POLICE OFFICER.

THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF ANGST ABOUT THE TIME IT TAKES AND THE COST THAT IS EVENTUALLY INCURRED WITH DISCIPLINING POLICE OFFICERS, AND THERE HAVE BEEN ATTEMPTS TO CHANGE THAT LAW AT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

THERE IS A FLURRY OF BILLS FROM REPEAL TO CHANGING THE STANDARD OF REVIEW WITH OTHER THINGS THE SENATE HAD A STUDY COMMISSION UNDER SENATOR METZ THAT MADE A RECOMMENDATION.

THERE WAS A BILL ON THE HOUSE SIDE, AND OTHERS HAVE SINCE INTRODUCED SEPARATE BILLS.

SO IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE BILL.

I HAVE NOT HEARD RECENTLY WHAT BILL PARTICULARLY IS GOING TO BE MOVING FORWARD, BUT I'M SURE AND HOPEFUL THAT THERE WILL BE SOME BILL TO REFORM IT SO THAT IT GIVES THE POLICE CHIEF AND ABILITY TO DISCIPLINE POLICE OFFICERS IN A TIMELY MANNER.

ONE OUTRAGE IS IF THAT OFFICER IN MINNESOTA COULD IMMEDIATELY TERMINATE THAT -- IF THAT OFFICER IN MINNESOTA WERE HERE, COULD WE IMMEDIATELY INDICT THAT OFFICER?

AND THE ANSWER IS NO.

UNTIL CHARGES ARE FORMALLY BROUGHT BY A GRAND JURY, WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH A PROCESS FOR SEPARATION AND TERMINATION.

PETER: LET ME ASK YOU THIS.

POST DEREK CHAUVIN, THE OUTCOME OF THAT TRIAL, HAS THAT FLURRY OF NEWS REPORTS AND THE TRIAL ITSELF, DO YOU THINK IT'S GOING TO HAVE A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON RECRUITMENT, RETIREMENTS, RETENTION?

I KNOW IT'S EARLY.

STEVE: IT'S EARLY, AND ANYONE IN THIS PROFESSION -- AND I KNOW PROVIDENCE POLICE CAME OUT AND PUBLICLY CONDEMNED THE ACTIONS OF DEREK CHAUVIN.

THAT DOESN'T BELONG IN OUR PROFESSION.

THAT WAS AN OUTRIGHT KILLING OF ANOTHER PERSON, UNNECESSARY AND DESPICABLE.

BUT THE BACKLASH, NOT BASED JUST ON THAT CASE, BUT ON SOME OTHER CASES, WHAT APPEARS TO BE ABUSIVE USE OF FORCE MAY NOT BE BECAUSE USE OF FORCE IS ALWAYS UNPLEASANT TO SEE.

PHYSICAL FORCE ON AN INDIVIDUAL, IT DOESN'T MATTER THEIR RACE OR GENDER, IT IS NEVER PRETTY TO SEE WHEN IT IS USED, BUT POLICE OFFICERS HAVE TO RESORT TO PHYSICAL FORCE AND USE OF FORCE.

WE TRY TO USE TOOLS THAT DON'T REQUIRE HAND-TO-HAND, HANDS-ON.

THERE HAS BEEN A BACKLASH AGAINST THE PROFESSION.

THERE'S TALK ABOUT ELIMINATING POLICE, DEFUNDING THE POLICE, AND ANYTHING IN BETWEEN.

IT'S GOING TO TAKE A HIT ON THE PROFESSION.

THERE IS A CERTAIN SEGMENT OF SOCIETY THAT WANTS TO ELIMINATE THAT PROFESSION.

WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO JOIN A PROFESSION THAT THERE'S A POLICE OFFICER PUDDING AND NEON A MAN WHO HAS BEEN CUFFED -- PUTTING A KNEE ON A MAN WHO IS ALREADY CUFFED AND NOT COMPETITIVE.

-- COMBATIVE.

WE HAVE ALREADY HAD A REDUCTION OF APPLICANTS BY 50% TWO AND A HALF, THREE YEARS AGO.

PETER: THAT IS TOO BAD.

OBVIOUSLY, WE NEED POLICE OFFICERS, WE NEED GOOD ONES, AND WE NEED YOUNG ONES TO REPLACE THOSE WHO ARE GOING TO BE RETIRING AND MOVING ON.

STEVE: AND WE NEED DIVERSE CANDIDATES AS WELL.

YOU NEED TO START AT THE BEGINNING.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE A GOOD POOL DURING APPLICATIONS, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE A GOOD SELECTION AT THE END.

IF YOU ONLY START WITH 5% PEOPLE OF COLOR, AT THE END, YOU ONLY HAVE MAYBE THREE OR 4%.

YOU REALLY HAVE TO FOCUS ON THE RECRUITMENT FOR A DIVERSE WORKFORCE AND GET AS MANY PEOPLE FROM THE DIVERSE COMMUNITY TO APPLY.

IT'S NOT FOR EVERYONE.

YOU HAVE TO PASS A TEST, PASS THE PHYSICAL.

PASS BACKGROUND.

WE HAVE SEEN PRETTY CONSISTENTLY THAT THOSE PERCENTAGES HOLD OUT FROM THE APPLICANT POOL TO THE RECRUIT SELECTION, TO BEING SWORN IN AS POLICE OFFICERS AFTER THE ACADEMY.

PETER: ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE CAMDEN, NEW JERSEY POLICE FORCE AND WHAT TOOK PLACE THERE?

I WAS LISTENING TO A PROGRAM THIS WEEKEND, AND APPARENTLY, NEWARK, NEW JERSEY WAS GOING TO TAKE ON WHAT CAMDEN DID, AND CAMDEN, APPARENTLY FOR THE LAST YEAR, THEY WENT OF FULL-YEAR WITHOUT ONE GUN BEING FIRED.

STEVE: INCREDIBLE.

PETER: IT IS.

BUT APPARENTLY THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HAD BEEN WORKING WITH CAMDEN, AND THEY CAME UP WITH A PLAN, THEY IMPLEMENTED THE PLAN, AND NOW NEWARK, NEW JERSEY, IS LOOKING AT THE SAME PLAN AND SEEING IF THEY CAN IMPLEMENTED THERE.

I WAS WONDERING IF YOU WERE AWARE OF THAT.

STEVE: I WASN'T, BUT I CAN TELL YOU, AND I HAVE SAID THIS PUBLICLY IN THE PAST, THAT ABOUT THREE YEARS AGO, THREE AND A HALF YEARS AGO, PROVIDENCE UNTIL MAY BE 17 OR 18 DIDN'T SHOOT THEIR GUN THE WHOLE YEAR.

AND WHEN I SAY DIDN'T SHOOT, DIDN'T SHOOT TO PUT DOWN AN ANIMAL, DIDN'T SHOOT WHATSOEVER FOR ONE COMPLETE YEAR.

ALL OF THOSE POLICE OFFICERS WHO DID NOT ACCIDENTALLY OR DELIBERATELY SHOOT THEIR WEAPON, WHICH IS REMARKABLE.

NOW, FROM TIME TO TIME, DEPENDING ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES, WE HAVE OBVIOUSLY DISCHARGED OUR WEAPONS JUSTIFIABLY.

IT'S REMARKABLE WHEN A POLICE DEPARTMENT DOESN'T DISCHARGE THEIR WEAPONS FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR.

STEVE: -- PETER: THANKS, STEVE.

LISTEN, I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE YOU AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT BRIEFLY IT IS HAPPENING AROUND THE COUNTRY IN THE AREA OF HATE, HAVE WE HAD INCIDENTS OF ASIAN HATE ACTIVITY IN RHODE ISLAND?

STEVE: UNFORTUNATELY, WE SAW ACROSS THE COUNTRY ASSAULTS AND EVEN HOMICIDE AGAINST OUR ASIAN COMMUNITY.

WE REACHED OUT TO THE DEPARTMENTS AND PROVIDENCE AND REASSURED THEM THAT RESOURCES ARE THERE, DON'T HESITATE IN CALLING FOR ASSISTANCE OR HELP, OR REPORTING.

FORTUNATELY, THUS FAR WE HAVE NOT HAD AN INCIDENT OF ANY VIOLENCE OR VERBAL HATE TOWARD ANYONE REPORTED.

PETER: AND THAT IS KEY.

STEVE: WE HAVE TO MONITOR IT, BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE HATE IN THEIR HEART, AND FOR THEM TO TARGET SOMEBODY WHO IS INNOCENT JUST BASED ON HOW THEY LOOK IS REALLY DESPICABLE BEHAVIOR ON PEOPLE'S PART ACROSS THIS COUNTRY.

I HOPE WE ARE BETTER THAN THAT HERE IN THIS STATE, BUT IT HAPPENED IN NEW YORK, AND THAT'S ONLY A COUPLE HOURS FROM HERE.

I WOULD HOPE IT DOESN'T HAPPEN HERE.

AS A SOCIETY AND AS A COMMUNITY, EITHER VERBALLY ASSAULTING SOMEONE OR PHYSICALLY.

PETER: WE HAVE GONE THROUGH BLACK LIVES MATTER AND HATE, HAVE WE HAD ANY ISSUES IN RHODE ISLAND OF HATE IN TERMS OF THE ASIAN COMMUNITY?

STEVE: NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE.

WHEN WE SAW IT HAPPENING ACROSS THE COUNTRY, WE REACHED OUT TO OUR ASIAN COMMUNITY, EXTENDED OUR RESOURCES, AND THERE WAS NOTHING FROM THEIR COMMUNITY ABOUT HATE BEING DIRECTED TOWARD THE REGION.

I AM SURE COMMENTS HAVE BEEN MADE AND REPORTED BUT WE HAVE NOT HAD ANY TO MY KNOWLEDGE IN THIS STATE.

PETER: THAT'S GOOD.

ONE OF MY PERSONAL FRIENDS IS CAMBODIAN AND I HAVE ASKED IF ANYBODY AND HER FAMILY OR ANYONE SHE KNEW HAD INSTANCES, AND SHE SAID NO.

HOPEFULLY, WE WILL KEEP OUR FINGERS CROSSED THAT IT STAYS THAT WAY.

STEVE: IT IS DESPICABLE BEHAVIOR ACROSS THE COUNTRY, JUST FROM THE WAY YOU LOOK.

AND THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY HAS SEEN THAT FOR CENTURIES.

THERE IS JUST NO PLACE IN OUR SOCIETY FOR THAT KIND OF HATRED AND RACISM.

PETER: AS COMMISSIONER FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, HOW ARE WE DOING WITH RECRUITMENT IN TERMS OF MINORITIES?

STEVE: WE HAVE A PRETTY GOOD, DIVERSE POOL OF CANDIDATES TO BECOME FIREFIGHTERS.

WE CAN ALWAYS IMPROVE, BUT WE HAVE NEVER REALLY HAD THE STRUGGLE LIKE WE'VE HAD ON THE POLICE SIDE IN TERMS OF FINDING A DIVERSE POOL OF CANDIDATES.

WE HAVE MORE WORK TO DO ON BOTH SIDES, POLICE AND FIRE, BUT THE RESULTS OF THAT SYSTEM REFLECT THE COMMUNITY WE SERVE.

IT'S ALL WHITE ON THE FIRESIDE.

ON THE COMMAND SIDE, IT IS ALL WHITE MALES.

IT PROBABLY BEGINS TO BE DIVERSIFIED MAYBE THREE OR FOUR LAWYERS DOWN.

ON THE POLICE SIDE, WE HAVE SOME DIVERSITY IN THE COMMAND RANKS.

SO, WE HAVE A WAYS TO GO.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE A DIVERSE POOL OF CANDIDATES, THAT'S GOING TO BE A PROBLEM.

SO WE ARE NOT GOING TO TURN THIS AROUND UNTIL WE GET A GOOD POOL OF CANDIDATES THAT WANT TO BE POLICE OFFICERS AND GET HIRED.

THEREBY, THEY WILL ALSO CLIMB NOT RANK TO SERGEANT, LIEUTENANT CAPTAIN ON THE POLICE AND FIRESIDE.

PETER: I AM ON THE STREETS A LOT BECAUSE OF WHAT I DO IN THE NEWS WEBSITE.

I HAVE SEEN A MUCH BIGGER PRESENCE, A MORE NOTICEABLE PRESENCE OF POLICE OFFICERS IN THE PROVIDENCE AREA.

THERE APPEAR TO BE MORE CRUISERS, UNITS, AND I DEFINITELY HAVE SEEN MORE OFFICERS OF COLOR AND WOMEN, ESPECIALLY AT CONSTRUCTION SITES, WHERE WE HAVE A LOT GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

SO IT IS EVIDENT.

STEVE: WE HAVE MADE SOME GREAT STRIDES IN THE LAST COUPLE OF ACADEMIES.

WE HAVE TO MAKE UP FOR THE YEARS IT WASN'T SO DIVERSE, AND IT'S JUST GOING TO TAKE CONTINUED WORK TO GET US TO A GOOD DEPARTMENT THAT IS REFLECTIVE OF THE COMMUNITIES.

PETER: DO WE STILL HAVE A PAL PROGRAM AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT?

STEVE: WE DON'T HAVE A PAL PROGRAM.

WE HAVE A SIMILAR PROGRAM.

IT'S NOT CALLED PAL, BUT WE DO HAVE SOME, AND OUR OFFICERS VOLUNTEER THEIR TIME AND MENTOR KIDS, YOUNG KIDS IN THE PROVIDENCE SYSTEM THAT HAVE AN INTEREST IN BECOMING A POLICE OFFICER.

FOR THE SCHOOL YEAR, THEY MEET A COUPLE OF TIMES A MONTH AND EXPOSE THEM TO POLICING, AND HOPEFULLY START PLANTING SEEDS IN THEIR MINDS.

PETER: THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING.

IS THERE ANY KIND OF PROGRAM IN THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL OR MIDDLE SCHOOL?

STEVE: WE DON'T HAVE ANY AT THOSE LEVELS, NO.

PETER: WE SHOULD GET SOMETHING IN THERE.

I THINK WHEN CHILDREN ARE INDOCTRINATED AND INTRODUCED TO POLICE WORK AT AN EARLY STAGE, THEY HAVE A BETTER SHOT -- YOU HAVE A BETTER SHOT OF GETTING THEM TO CONSIDER GOING INTO POLICING AS A CAREER.

STEVE: I AGREE.

THAT'S PART OF THE OVERALL RECRUITMENT.

I GO IN AND ASK THE QUESTION OF THE SECOND GRADERS, WHO IS INTERESTED IN BECOMING A POLICE OFFICER.

HARDLY ANY HANDS GO UP.

WHO IS INTERESTED IN BECOMING A FIREFIGHTER?

THEY ALL WANT TO BE FIREFIGHTERS .

THINK ABOUT THAT.

THE EXPERIENCE THEY HAVE HAD WITH POLICE OFFICERS, EVEN AT A YOUNG AGE, ARE NOT A POSITIVE EXPERIENCE.

WE TRY TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO GIVE OFFICERS AN OPPORTUNITY TO GO IN AND UNIFORM, SIT DOWN ON THE FLOOR, READ TO THEM, HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT THEY DO AND WHY THEY DO IT, AND THAT'S WHEN YOU GET SOMEONE TO START THINKING ABOUT WHAT THEY WANT TO DO IN THEIR CAREER.

THEY THINK, I REMEMBER THAT POLICE OFFICER, AND AT THE AGE OF EIGHT OR NINE, THEY ARE STARTING TO THINK OF THAT.

THOSE PEOPLE END UP BECOMING POLICE OFFICERS.

YOU CAN'T WAIT UNTIL THEY ARE 17 AND IT MAY BE TOO LATE.

PETER: WHEN I WAS A KID GROWING UP, EVERY KID WANTED TO BE A COP OR A FIREMAN.

MAYBE A DOCTOR.

BUT THOSE WERE THE PROFESSIONS PEOPLE THOUGHT ABOUT AT THAT GRADE LEVEL.

STEVE: WE HAVE SOME WORK TO DO, AND IT'S ALL ABOUT BOTH THE IMAGE AND THE RELATIONSHIP OF THE PROFESSION THAT WE HAVE TO PUT OUR GUNS DOWN, OUR UNIFORMS ASIDE.

AND WE DO.

IN PROVIDENCE, THERE IS A LOT OF VOLUNTEER WORK BY OUR POLICE OFFICERS IN FLAG FOOTBALL AND BASKETBALL, MEETING THESE YOUNG KIDS IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD.

IF THEY DON'T KNOW YOU, IT'S EASY TO DISLIKE SOMEONE, BUT IF THEY HAVE A RELATIONSHIP AND SAY HEY, I KNOW THIS POLICE OFFICER AND THEY ARE NOT LIKE THAT, THAT'S WHERE IT BEGINS.

PETER: EXACTLY.

AND MAYBE ONE DAY WE CAN GET BACK TO THE POINT OF ACTUALLY SAYING THE POLICEMAN ON THE BEAT LIVES AROUND THE CORNER.

STEVE: THAT'S ANOTHER COMPONENT OF IT.

NOT TOO MANY OF OUR POLICE AND FIRE LIVE IN THE CITY.

WE ACTUALLY GIVE 10 EXTRA POINTS ON THE EXAM FOR PROVIDENCE RESIDENTS.

THAT HAS HAD AN IMPACT ON THE POOL OF CANDIDATES, WHICH IS GOOD.

PETER: THAT'S ALL YOU CAN DO, STEVE.

YOU CAN ONLY DO SO MUCH BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT THE WRONG ELEMENT COMING INTO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AS WELL.

YOU HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO, BUT YOU WANT TO KEEP THE POLICE PROFESSIONAL.

IF YOU CAN REACH PEOPLE WHEN THEY ARE YOUNG, REALLY YOUNG, MAYBE THEY HAVE A BETTER SHOT DOWN THE LINE.

THAT'S SOMETHING TO TALK TO THE SCHOOL DEPARTMENT ABOUT.

30 MINUTES GOES FAST.

WE WILL TALK MORE ABOUT THIS.

BUT WE HAVE RUN OUT OF TIME, BUT I WANT TO THANK TODAY'S GUEST, COMMISSIONER STEVE PERRY, AND YOU THE VIEWERS, FOR TUNING IN TODAY.

AND THANK YOU TO PBS FOR MAKING THIS PROGRAM POSSIBLE.

I AM PETER WELLS.

GIVE US YOUR OPINION ON FACEBOOK.

AND HAVE A GREAT DAY.

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